Latest / The Body Pod / RE-RUN - Nutrition Strategies for Fat Loss in Menopausal Women with Mikki Williden, PhD

Transcript

RE-RUN - Nutrition Strategies for Fat Loss in Menopausal Women with Mikki Williden, PhD · The Body Pod

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: All right, all right everyone. Today on the Body Pod,
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: we are doing our final summer rerun featuring Mickey Willden
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: and this is quite phenomenal timing given that she is
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: my star nutritionist for my upcoming Nutrition Happens course.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: So enjoy this rerun with doctor Mickey Willarden teaching us
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: all about what changes we need to make with our
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: nutrition goals over forty enjoy. Hey everyone, this is Haley
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: and I'm Lara, and welcome to the body Pod. Welcome
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: back to the Body Pod everyone. Today we have Mickey Willden,
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: who holds a PhD in nutrition and is passionate about
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: helping to translate evidence based science into practice to help
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: people meet their health and wellness goals. I have been
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: wanting to have Mickey on this podcast for over a year,
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: so I am super that we finally got a time
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: that worked for both of us. She is also the
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: host of the podcast Wikipedia, which dives deep into the
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: topics of nutrition, longevity, fitness, and health, and she is
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: the co host of a weekly endurance sports podcast called
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Fitter Radio. She is the real deal and you will
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: love this straightforward podcast on all things nutrition for perry
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: and postmenopausal women.
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  Speaker 3: Let's get into it all right. Welcome Mickey.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: You have been on my list for a solid year,
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: so I can't believe it's finally here where I finally
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: get you for this podcast recording.
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: I am just so stoked to be asked to come
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: on the bod pod and talk to you ladies about
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  Speaker 4: all things nutrition and all the things really like, I'm
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: so honored. So thank you Hayley, thank you Laura.
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: Yes, well, let me tell you.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: I feel like I'm like, why does everyone on the
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: other side of the world like this is who I
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: always connect with.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: I know Tony.
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: I speak to Tony last week even and I see
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: it Hailey's having me on the podcast and He's like,
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: Hailey is amazing. But of course you guys are very
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: well connected, and I feel like I've known Tony forever,
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: but we've been sort of internet friends forever. Mm hmm.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't know what you guys are doing on
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: the other side of the world, but I'm like my
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: triathlon coach years ago was, you know, from Australia, And
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: I'm like, this is just who I gravitate towards. But
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: I am so excited because let me tell you what
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: I love most about and I have nine million questions
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: to ask you. But I love the simplicity that you
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: have with nutrition. So you're super into the evidence evidence
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: number one. But I feel like everyone says that nowadays
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: everything is as evidence based, which I do too, but
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: I reach out to people that know the evidence that
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: are way smarter than me with PhDs. But you also
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: aren't afraid to like make your stance even if it's
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: something that isn't trending in I don't know, on socials.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: And I love that because I know I'm getting real, honest,
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: truthful information. And before I start, I'm going to say
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: I listened to your podcast, and I love, love, love
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: like you were already up here and then now you
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: were like up here when you like called yourself out,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: you were like, well, somebody called me out and said
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: what is this research? And you were like I had
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: to call back myself and be like where am I
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: getting this from? So I love that you're not afraid
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: also to change your mind or as the science comes out,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: you're like, well, we've always thought this, but guess what,
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: as a scientist, this is the way that this is
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: what it says, so we have to take that into account.
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and you really do helly like I learned. I
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: feel like, you know, when you come through university system,
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: as I did, in nutrition, you learn one way. I've
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: got my science and my science degree in nutrition plus
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: physical activity and education, and you think you know it all.
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: Actually you're quite arrogant, or at least I think I was.
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: And so I really had my blinkers on to all
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  Speaker 4: of the other information that was out there from the
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  Speaker 4: likes of people who really understood nutrition much more than
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  Speaker 4: I did just because I had a degree. But it
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  Speaker 4: really took me, like at least ten years post my
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  Speaker 4: study to actually realize that there is more to research
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: than just one paper and one interpretation of a paper
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: or and so I think that I really had to
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: check myself then, and it was a really good lesson
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  Speaker 4: for me, I think. And so I'm actually quite distrustful
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  Speaker 4: of people who have only who are very black and white,
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: because nutrition, particularly as and as you guys know, of course,
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  Speaker 4: for s collectivity, it's not just black and white. It's
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: about the individual in front of you. And I feel
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  Speaker 4: like that's a message that we need to keep talking
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  Speaker 4: more about, because otherwise you can just leave a lot
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  Speaker 4: of people confused about the thing that's best for them.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, yes, let's tackle that right away.
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  Speaker 1: Because I just had Abby Smith Ryan on I don't know,
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  Speaker 1: I'm sure you're familiar with her, yes, And I kind
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: of asked her the same questions and she was like, Hayley,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: people are making this so much more complicated than they
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: need it to be. And you know where I run
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: these nutrition groups with. Again, I don't. I don't have
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: the PhD. So I always seek out you know, people
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  Speaker 1: that do that can like you read the research.
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  Speaker 3: This is your job. Read the research and then tell
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  Speaker 3: me you know how we're translating this, So I know enough.
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  Speaker 1: But I always seek out these partnerships that, for sure
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  Speaker 1: are you know more more or they know more information
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  Speaker 1: than me. But if we're looking at this and women
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  Speaker 1: come in and they're like, tell me exactly my macros
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  Speaker 1: and exactly how much of this I'm supposed to do,
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  Speaker 1: and I'm like, it.
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  Speaker 3: Doesn't work that way.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, And if someone is selling you the exact macro
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  Speaker 1: fix you know, with knowing nothing about you, Like we
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: have ballparks, we have guidelines for cardio and nutrition, but
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: you run your own groups.
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  Speaker 3: And I love that.
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  Speaker 1: From the nutrition side, I'm like, Okay, you know all
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: there is. I mean, you know, you're the person that
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: I would look to and be like, Mickey knows her stuff.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: She knows her stuff, and she's going to give me
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  Speaker 1: the right information whether I think it or not. So
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: if we're talking about how you and your like how
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: you approach nutrition, and we're talking about the macros, is
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  Speaker 1: there a specific macro or for women that are coming
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  Speaker 1: to you? Do those macro budgets in a group setting
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  Speaker 1: maybe not individually? Do you have like where do carbohydrates
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  Speaker 1: play a role in compared to protein in compared like
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  Speaker 1: comparison with fat.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, great question, Hailey. And you know what, for
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: most of my nutrition sort of career, I haven't really
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: talked to people a lot about macros. And I know
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  Speaker 4: macros are very in right now, like not right now,
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: but they're the thing now and people can go and
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: do courses on macros in the weekend to become a
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: macro coach and help assist people with that. But I've
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  Speaker 4: always thought that, you know, we don't really eat macros.
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: We eat food, and that's a language that sort of
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: simplifies it for people. And it's funny because I even
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: get people who sort of say to me, Oh, tell
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: me what macros that I should be eating, And then
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: I sort of have a conversation with them and realize
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: that they're not willing or they don't understand that. You know,
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  Speaker 4: if you know, knowing the macros is one thing, but
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: you know, how do you know how that translates into
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: your real life. You then have to track your food.
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: You have to measure everything you eat. You have to
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  Speaker 4: be very calculated. And many of us, particularly with women
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  Speaker 4: of our age, like we have running busy careers, in
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  Speaker 4: households and children and maintaining relationships and doing all of
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  Speaker 4: the other things, do we really have the time and
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  Speaker 4: the energy to now focus and doll down as much
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  Speaker 4: as we think we do with regards to our diet, because,
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  Speaker 4: as you sort of said, it's actually not that's sort
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  Speaker 4: of getting really micro, whereas actually it's a big picture.
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  Speaker 4: That's how I like to sort of approach things. Having
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  Speaker 4: said that, though, protein, as you know, and I know
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  Speaker 4: that you agree, it's the thing which most people sort
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  Speaker 4: of fall short on, even people who think they have
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  Speaker 4: a high protein diet because they're having a protein smoothie
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  Speaker 4: in the morning and chicken at lunch and maybe a
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: steak at dinner, Don't they sort of underestimate the amount
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  Speaker 4: that they actually need so I talk to them. So
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: it with regards to the actual amount that I talk
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  Speaker 4: to them about, I'm like, look, the IRDI is set
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  Speaker 4: at point eight grams per kg body weight, which most
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  Speaker 4: protein metabolism experts suggest that's woefully inadequate. And if we
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: doubled that, that would be probably a good starting point
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  Speaker 4: for most people. Look, and there are of course individual differences,
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  Speaker 4: but let's just generally say one point six grams. But
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  Speaker 4: then if we're thinking about fat loss, which is what
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  Speaker 4: I talk to a lot of women about, we're thinking
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  Speaker 4: more at least two grams per kg body weight, if
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  Speaker 4: not up to maybe even two point four grams per
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  Speaker 4: kg body weight. And when we are talking in these
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  Speaker 4: gram amounts, a lot of this information comes from protein's
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  Speaker 4: role with initiating muscle protein synthesis. You know, you want
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  Speaker 4: that synthetic response to be able to repair and rebuild muscle,
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  Speaker 4: But of course protein does so much more than that.
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  Speaker 4: But it's it's hard to measure exactly. I suppose how
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  Speaker 4: much protein we need for neurotransmitter production or to help
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  Speaker 4: calm the brain or to help regulate the appetite, and
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  Speaker 4: so many other factors come into play, so it does
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  Speaker 4: become a little bit more individual. Like if I've got
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  Speaker 4: two people in front of me, and one of them
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  Speaker 4: is someone who may and they both want fat loss,
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  Speaker 4: and they're both of a similar body size, and I
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: have these sort of targets for them. Someone might fare
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  Speaker 4: really well on let's say two grams pooquegy body weight
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  Speaker 4: of protein, and they may easily meet that requirement not
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: feel hungry and distracted by that hunger in between meals,
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  Speaker 4: and not feel lacking an energy, and not feel anxious
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  Speaker 4: and things like that, and they may be great. But
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: the other person, who might appear on the face of
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: it to be very similar, they might have a lot
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: of food noise going on. They may need from a
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: diet perspective, they may need more protein because they need
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: actually need more food to be able to feel fuller
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  Speaker 4: for longer, whereas the other person might be good on
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: just small amounts of food. Someone else might need that
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: real stretch signal from their stomach to help them feel satisfied.
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: And they may also have some anxiety more so than
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  Speaker 4: the other person, which may then require just additional amino
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: acids to help calm the brain down and things like that.
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: So I always have a starting point, but I always
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: need to understand the person in front of me, which
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: does make it a bit more challenging when you're in
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: that group situation, right when you've got four hundred people,
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: you give them this plan and you're like, you know,
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: go with it, But I mean, that's not how I
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: run my programs. I'm sure much like you would. You know,
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: you're in the trenches with them, and you're answering questions
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: and you're tweaking a sort of foundation plan to make
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: it work for them, And I just I always encourage
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: people to just listen to the signs that your body
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: is giving you. You know, like when you eat in
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: the way that we suggest, where you do moderate protein
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: and moderate carbohydrate and you're eating in a calorie deficit
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: but you're stabilizing your blood sugar, you can much you
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: can be much more confident that your body is giving
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: you messages about how hungry you are and how you feel.
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  Speaker 4: Whereas if you're on a lower protein diet and you
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: may be overshooting the carbohydrate because of that low protein
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: diet and your blood sugars are fluctuating, then a lot
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: of what we feel could be related to those blood
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: sugar fluctuations, and they're not true sort of signals from
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: your body. So I always start with protein. I'm very
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: long winded. I'm so sorry you asked about carbohydrate as well. Yes,
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: and I think people can get people can misinterpret what
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: low carbohydrate sort of means. I think that's an important
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: thing to put on the table because I am someone
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: who advocates for a lower carbohydrate approach, particularly as we
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: head into perimenopause and we become more insulin resistant due
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: to the changing sort of fluctuating hormones and inflammation and
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: the reduction and estrogen across that perimenopause or phase. But
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: it doesn't mean like a ketodiet. It doesn't mean that
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: you're eating twenty grams of carbohydrate or less. You know.
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: I sort of look at if I'm thinking about a
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: meal for someone and I'm putting it together for them,
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: I want maybe equal parts protein and carbohydrate, or maybe
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: a little bit less carbohydrate. But then if you're active,
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: we want to pop some additional carbohydrate in there. So
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: I don't know, I might be anywhere from maybe thirty
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: to forty grams of carbohydrate in a meal. And if
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: someone is in the endurance space and they do require
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: more carbohydrate to help replenish that glycogen host exercise, then
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: we're going to be adding in some additional carbohydrate there,
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: which isn't the same as a kinogenic diet, but it's
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: still a relatively low carbohydrate diet compared to what maybe
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: the general population is eating.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, so two questions. One, I get this question all
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: the time, So I'm sure you do too. Too much
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: protein is bad for the kidneys. What does the science
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: say about that?
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, great question. And you know, up until maybe even
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: like a month ago, there was a couple of meta
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: analyzes and I believe they may have been published back
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: in twenty eighteen fact check. That might not be right,
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: but that showed there was no difference in kidney function
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: between for people with a who had a normal kidney functioning.
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: There was no difference low protein versus high protein i e.
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: High protein intakes did not affect kidney function. Now changed
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: the function of the kidney like So there was a
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: little bit more activity across with the markers that they
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: used to assess kidney function. But it wasn't detrimental. It
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: just meant the kidney was it just was working a
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: bit more. But it wasn't harder. It wasn't it wasn't
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: straining it, I guess, is how you might put it.
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: But even most recently, I think in the last month,
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: there's been a study published that has shown that a
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: higher protein diet is beneficial for someone even with a
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: low kidney function as well. So there's this this this
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: is long standing myth that protein negatively impacts the kidney,
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: based on data showing that people with stage four chronic
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: kidney disease are recommended to have a low protein diet.
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: And that's just that's a category of I guess, a
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: patient which is very different from the general population.
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: Mm hmm. Are you a fan of continuous glucose monitor.
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: For something? Then this is also quite controversial, isn't it.
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: But I actually said it is. Yeah.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: I'm asking you all the controversy because I know you'll
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: shoot it straight and I know you'll shoot it from
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: the evidence and the research of what it says.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I love it.
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And you know what, Hailey, like, I understand why
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: people are are somewhat opposed to just focusing on one,
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: one particular thing. Like I think they are concerned that
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: if we strap a c GM on someone, then what
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: then they will aim to just have an absolute flatline
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: glucose without thinking at all about other aspects of health
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: or other aspects of diet. But look, I just think
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: that the more that we can understand how food affects
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: our bodies and how food affects our metabolism and how
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: we dispose of that glucose, just the better you're able
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: to make choices that are going to affect your long
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: term health, because isn't that just what we want? You know, Like,
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: I mean, they're expensive, so there's not something that I
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: would say to everyone, you need a CGM. But if
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: someone comes to me and says, do you think it
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: would be helpful, then I'm going to have that conversation
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: with them that actually, you know, maybe you could get
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: glean some really good insights into how your body reacts
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: to the types of foods that you eat and how
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: you can sort of manage that. Because I think when
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: it comes to blood sugar, like we often are measuring
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: or looking at markers that are just too far down
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: the line. You know, we're waiting for things to go
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: wrong in order to fix them, rather than putting into
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: place the preventative measures that can prevent them from going
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: wrong in the first instance.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, so let's move on to the protein timing.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: So we have all this new research that has come
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: out about how much protein we can kind of utilize
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: where it used to be like thirty grams and then
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: now it's like up to sixty grams for again, And like,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: I really want to hone in on what the evidence
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: would show for Perry postmenopause, because that's who I work with,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: or if we're just assuming certain things for the Perry
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: postmoanopause group, and maybe there's not a ton of research
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: in that area. It does protein timing matter? And if so,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: what does that look like over our meals throughout the day?
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah? Great question, And I love that you asked. You know,
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: what is it that we assume or what is it
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: that we are just sort of taking almost our best
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: educated guess, Because to the best of my knowledge, there
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: is not a body of literature that has looked specifically
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: at women in perimenopause and assessed different amounts of protein
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: at any one meal and the effect on muscle protein synthesis, which,
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: as I said earlier, is the main marker which which
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: we use to assess that sort of I suppose protein
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: timing aspect. So, but what we do know is that
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: the older we get, the more protein we need in
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: any one particular time in order to initiate muscle protein
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: synthesis and to get that meet that protein threshold. And
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: I'm pretty sure it's Don Layman his research. He's looked
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: at older individuals that might be above sixty years of
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: age and has shown that for them to get a
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: robust signal in the brain, they need to have forty
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: grams of protein in a meal in order to initiate
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: that sort of maximal muscle protein synthetic response. Yet, if
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: you look at someone who might be say twenty five
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: so young and healthy, then they only require maybe twenty
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: five grams of protein in a meal, or even twenty
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: grams of protein in a meal. But there's nothing specifically
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: looking at females, and there's nothing specifically looking at that
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: age group. So what I say to what I say
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: to the woman that I work with, which are largely
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: in that same group that you work with, Hailey, is
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: that we aim for forty grams of protein and a
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: meal because as you age, the brain sort of almost
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: turns down that little like a little dimmer switch, if
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: you like, and so you just need almost more of
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: everything to get that similar same response. And so we
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: aim for forty grams of protein at breakfast, and we
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: aim for forty grams of protein in the evening meal
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: because we know that you sort of need two times
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: in the day to be sort of hit that muscle
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: protein synthetic response. And then we aim to collect the
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: rest of our protein across the course of the day,
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: depending on overall protein targets or some of those things
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: we were discussing sort of earlier. Albeit as well, and
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: I'm sure you've heard this before, is that hasn't been
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: a lot of research done at that lunchtime period, so
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: you know, so whether or not someone is good on
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: teen grams of protein at lunch or you know, thirty
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: grams of protein at lunch when we just don't know that,
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: And then you just got to go back to sort
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: of asking people how they feel. But I am quite
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: I guess dogmatic about the breakfast meal because we're coming
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: out of like an an overnight fast. A lot of
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: us we may have just done some training faster training
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: as well, you know, and we're in that catabolic state,
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: so you do need at some point in order to
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: optimize your health, you need to sort of switch that
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: to some more sort of anabolic sort of states. So
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: I'm really big on that protein.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Yes, so let's let's cover that because the faster training.
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: You had a post on that.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: And when we look at that, like, obviously we don't
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: want to do these long periods of time without food,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: and we know that from like low energy availability, the
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: reserve that has come out for low energy availability even
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: like throughout the day. If we look at all of
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: that research, and again we're specifically talking about this population.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: If a female gets up in the morning and she's like, well,
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: I've got to work out at five and I've got
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: to run, but I don't want like a food a
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: belly full of food. What is your recommendation, And I'm
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: guessing that's all on the science that is out there.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: What does that mean for their protein? Can they split
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: it up you know a little bit before, a little
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: bit after, or all before or all after, as long
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: as it's within a window. What does that look like
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Because there's a lot of talk and a lot of
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: chatter about the window and you know where that goes
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: with protein specifically.
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, great. So the thing with the protein threshold
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: is you do need it in one meal. So you
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: can't get twenty grams before training twenty grams after training
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: because you're not hitting that threshold to initiate muscle protein synthesis.
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: So if someone is hitting something for training doesn't mean
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: that they can then subtract that from their next meal
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: like that. That's in addition to and look, Hayley, I'm
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: not sure about you, but you know, I've worked with
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: thousands of women over my time, and women are so different.
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: Some women can get up, go for a forty five
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: minute maybe even a harder run, or do a harder
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: session and it's no big deal to them. You know.
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: Hormone's fine, sleep is fine, energy is fine, hunger is fine,
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: body composition is fine. There's nothing actually off. But some women,
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: if they get up and train fasted, then that just
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: upsets there. They get hormone disruptions that upsets their sleeper,
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: upsets their energy, their cravings later on in the day.
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: So there is no there's not a big body of
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: research that has actually looked at fasted versus fed training
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: in terms of its long term impact. We know from
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: a from a performance perspective, feed always trump fasted training.
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: We know that, but that's not always the goal of
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: someone getting up going for a run at five am
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: in the morning. Sometimes it's just to get exercise, you know,
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: we're not all sort of have that athletic mindset. We
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: also know that there's no difference in terms of fat
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: loss whether you train fed or you train fasted. There
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: is a difference in substrate utilization. So you will burn
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: more fatty acids when you train in a fasted state
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: compared to if you have like a carbohydrate before training,
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: but that won't affect your overall fat loss if calories
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: are accounted for. So these are some of the things
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: we do know. But I don't know that it's correct
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: to say that no woman should train fasted like there
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: is no I'm not sure where that what markers we're
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: looking at to determine that this is dangerous for all women.
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: When I'm working with women in mind my fat loss
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: groups who are in a calorie deficit, I do say
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: to them that to get up and train and have
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: something before they train, because when you are in a
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: calorie deficit, those sort of guardrails do change a little
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: bit compared to when you're talking to a woman who
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: is just aiming to maintain her already healthy body composition,
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: because you are running on less calories, so it is
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: more of a stress on your body. So you do
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: need it, and you want to get the most from
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: that training session, and you want to be able to
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: recover well from that training session so you can do
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: it again. And when you've got less calories to play with,
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: all of those things become a little bit more challenging.
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: So I do recommend that in a fat loss phase,
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: if you're training early in the morning, we try to
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: get something in and that something might be it might
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: just be a serve of protein in water or unsweetened
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: almond milk, you know, or it might be like a
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: banana or whatever. They can tolerate. That then sort of
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: makes them they've got a little bit of fuel on board,
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: but it's not going to be so much that they're
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: sort of choking down a breakfast. But then afterwards we
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: still want that sort of maximum amount of protein, well, sorry,
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: minimum amount of protein that I was talking about, that
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: sort of forty grams of protein.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, so we want the threshold to be the two
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: and a half grams of loosing is really the protein
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: synthesis like that that threshold we want to have the
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: two and a half grams of loosen in there. But
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: if it's before and then say like they wake up
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: at five and then they work out at six, then
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: they might not need it, you know, right after if
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: they got forty grams before. But that window if somebody
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: decides to wake up and says, has a forty minute run,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: and it's all in context. Is it a super hard
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: you know run where you're trying to beat something or
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: is it more a child run? Then you want to eat.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: If you didn't have anything, then maybe you want to
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: eat fairly close after that, So that we're kind of
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: in that pairy workout phase of fueling the body, not
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: necessarily like no one's getting results if they don't do
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: it this way or the exact way.
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely so. I if it is a super hard run,
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: then I am going to encourage someone to have something
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: before they go out, you know, And a lot of
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: that come comes down to have it because you know,
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: we get in the habit of doing things a certain way,
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: and our body anticipates food at certain times, and that
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: is a trainable thing. So you know, if you never
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: eat before giving out training and your training starts suffering,
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: and then I'm going to say, hey, let's try and
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: put something in there, and you'll take a little bit
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: of adjustment and you can start small. But it's literally
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: just to help you sort of get through your training period. However,
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: you know, if you think about physiology, like the other
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: time to think of about pre training fueling is actually
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: the evening before, like the dinner, because that's how you
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: you know, you're going to restock a little bit of
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: that glycogen into your muscles at that point, and then overnight,
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: it's your liver glycogen that depletes, it's not your muscle
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: glycogen that depletes. So which is the liver is like
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: a little holding like a little holding bay for glucose
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: and carbohydrate, and that depletes overnight, but it only takes
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: like a little bit of maybe a little bit of
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: carbohydrate or even just some sprinting like that physiological sort
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: of sprinting exercise sort of will then allow some of
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: that muscle glycogen to travel to the liver to then
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: be sort of pushed out into the blood streams. So
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: so if you can't eat before training, you really can't
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: aim to have some have it like a decent dinner
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: with some carbohydrate in it the night before, and then
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: get in your nutrition host training within you know, fifteen
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: twenty minutes if possible. And I'm always going to say,
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: you know, I typically say a protein shaking a banana,
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: and maybe it's because you always sort of go down
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: like what I what would I usually have? Like a
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: lot of my recommendations come from things that I like, Yeah,
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: that's the thing which I would I would normally like.
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: But yeah, and the older you get, I think you
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: need a little bit more loosing than two and a
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: half grams actually, like I think it might be. I'm
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: pretty sure it's closer to three to three and a half,
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: which I know seems like like why would I even
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: mention that, but it because that's it's harder to get
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: it in normal food.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Well, then that would be the recommendation more for forty
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: grams versus maybe thirty grams.
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: Maybe, yeah, I think so, Yeah.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: That's good to know too.
• 29:52
  Speaker 5: I know, I feel like this is a confusing topic
• 29:55
  Speaker 5: Helene and I've talked about it before, what to eat before,
• 29:58
  Speaker 5: what to eat after to get your maximum benefit, but
• 30:02
  Speaker 5: on not too. I feel like this might not have
• 30:05
  Speaker 5: to do with people that are focused with athletics, but
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: I still feel like a lot of women are waiting
• 30:13
  Speaker 5: doing the internet and fasting and waiting to eat. And
• 30:17
  Speaker 5: I hear all the time, you know, I don't have
• 30:19
  Speaker 5: my first melontil noon or one o'clock.
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: What is your thoughts on that?
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Like, I do my best to encourage people away
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: from that practice if they're training in the morning. And look,
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: I will say that intermittent fasting is a really powerful
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: tool for people with severe insulin resistance and really you know,
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: and really poor metabolic health. And so a lot of
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: what you read on social media is targeted towards that population.
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: But of course those messages are everywhere. They hit everyone,
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: and so you're picking them up and you're thinking, maybe
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: this is what I sort of should do. And so
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: the mentality around that, Laura could be, well, you know,
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: if I get up and I train, I'm burning calories
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: and then I'm not replacing those calories, So I'm going
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: to this will just help my calorie balance. Later in
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: the day because I'm gonna be hungry later in the
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: day anyway, so I may as well save them. And
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: the other thing which often comes up is, well, I'm
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: just not that hungry in the morning, and coffee suppresses
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: your appetite. Being busy suppresses your appetite. And most people
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: that we work with they have they're either busy at
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: home or they're busy at work, and it's really easy
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: to put off that meal and they think they're getting
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: the benefit from it. But you know, Hayley talked about
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: low energy availability through the day, and that's a big thing.
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: Even if you don't have low energy availability, you can
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: still disrupt hormones. And there's research to show that acute
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: bone turnover markers are compromised if you go for hours
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: without food post train, even if you are meeting your
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: calorie targets for the day. So, you know, it's so
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: hard to hold onto muscle and bone as we age,
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: and particularly through perimenopause and menopause, that's accelerated aging essentially,
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: so we need to do all we can to hold
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: onto muscle and bone, and the practice of getting up
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: and training and then fasting across the morning is so
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: detrimental to those two things that I just try to
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: encourage people against it because the other thing which people
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: don't sort of realize from a fatoss perspective, is that
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: it's really easy to overshoot your calories in your smaller
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: eating window if you do that, because even if you
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: have an all meal, you can still feel unsatisfied, and
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: then you are constantly grazing in the kitchen or your
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: your you're really like hanging out for that afterwork wine
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: that then you open a bag of chips, but it's
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: fine because you fastered in the morning. So it's all
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: about you know, you know, So we just make these
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: little justifications in our head, but it does us in
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: and in most people. Lauren, I'm not sure what your experiences,
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: but this doesn't work long term for most people. So
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: most people I see are already doing this and it's
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: not working for them, but they haven't quite made that
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: connection or connected the dots themselves exactly.
• 33:22
  Speaker 5: You actually set up my next question perfectly. In the
• 33:25
  Speaker 5: last three weeks, I have talked to three different women
• 33:29
  Speaker 5: who were diagnosed with osteoporosis, and they're forty so young,
• 33:35
  Speaker 5: and a couple of them are starting the carnivore diet.
• 33:40
  Speaker 5: But as I walked away from those conversations, I thought,
• 33:44
  Speaker 5: what is the best thing to do even to not
• 33:49
  Speaker 5: get to that point? Also, yeah, but you know what
• 33:52
  Speaker 5: can we do? But even if you don't have our
• 33:54
  Speaker 5: stereo process and we're forty, what can we do to
• 33:58
  Speaker 5: prevent that from happening?
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah? So I think the number one thing, which is
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: which I talk a lot about as well. Even though
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: my main area of education is nutrition, I use the
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: fact that I have a physed degree is almost like, well,
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: I can still talk about this as well. But I
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: have to say I think strength training is one of
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: the best things. And most of the experts would say
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: if you'd never have to choose between protein and strength training.
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: But strength training is the thing, right, It's that mechanical
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: load of the muscle and the bone, and what occurs
• 34:34
  Speaker 4: when you actually do that progressive overload type work, which
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: isn't necessarily hitting three by five in the gym. You know,
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: you don't have to go from the cart to deadlifting
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: you know, your body weight or anything like that, but
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: that working to failure however that looks. So I think
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: strength training is probably the thing, even though, of course
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: we here to talk nutrition, so protein is the next
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: thing to my mind, and I know that you agree,
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: and we already talked about the amounts of protein that
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: I normally sort of operate in. And then outside of that,
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: we've got creating and we know that currently the research
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: supports particularly for older women, but there's no reason why
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: you wouldn't think about this for women in their younger years. Like,
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: if you're doing strength training and your protein intake is good,
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: then creating may potentially help with bone as well. The
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: research is really emerging there. Vitamin D is essential and
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: down here in New Zealand, the sun doesn't have enough
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: strength in those UVB rays to help us synthesize vitamin
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: D in winter despite how sunny it is, so most
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: people in New Zealand would need to supplement during winter.
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: It's not a very good public health messag Like no
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: one talks about this, but you know that's it. That's
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: definitely something which I talk to a lot of people about.
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: And then you know, there are these other trace minerals
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: that don't even really get featured when we think about
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: bone health. Things like boron and silica are two trace
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: minerals which are super important for bone. I discussed on
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: a podcast with someone called doctor Charles Price, and he
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: did a lot of investigation into osteoporosis when his wife
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: got ostroporosis back in the eighties, and he came up
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: with some supplements and it wasn't he wasn't just trying
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: to sell us supplements, as he's moved on from that thing.
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: But his research showed that, you know, in our sort
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: of modern diet, we don't get a lot of these
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: sort of trace minerals that are really important for bone.
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: Either collagen is something else. I'm really like big on
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: and I'm sure that you guys are familiar with research
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: to show how, and I know it's case study research
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: and it's pre clinical research as well, so there's not
• 36:59
  Speaker 4: large human clinical trials. But there's a suggestion that accelerated
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: sort of healing of tendons and ligaments and I want
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: to say bone, but I might be wrong about that,
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: so so fact check me on that one. But can
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: but then accelerated healing can occur when you sort of
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: put collagen peptides in with a little bit of vitamin C.
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: And you know, there is research from Dodtor Mike Ornsby's
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: lab of women in midlife taking ten grams of collagen
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: having a reduction in joint pain and knee pain. And
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: these are and this isn't an athletic sort of population,
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: you know, women like us. So I'm going to also
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: suggest that people take collagen as well.
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: Okay, Mickey, welcome back. So here we are.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: I want to really dive into and start with the
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: cardio portion. So we hear a lot and there's there
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: are definitely sides of the you know, the different types
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: of cardio that and postmenopausal women should do. What does
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: this science say, the current science say? This is where
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, any exercise is good exercise
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: and if it's getting you out the door, that's what
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: you should be doing. But where does that come into
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: place in this each group?
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, great question, Hayley. And there's just so much chatter
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: about this right now as well, because I'm absolutely with you.
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: I'm like, any exercise that someone can do is going
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: to be great. And you know, zone and the Zone
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: two training is the one that immediately pops to mind.
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: There seems to be some you know, camps that say
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: women should not do Zone two training and don't need
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: to do Zone two training, and then there are other
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: people probably a bit like us, to like do what
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: you love, get out there and just move because it's
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: important as well. And as far as research goes, to
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: the best of my knowledge, been no human clinical trials
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: of women in our age group to show that zone
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: two training is neither is detrimental al sort of mutual
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: to health. And you know, we often hear that women
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: are more metabolically flexible than men, so they do not
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: need to do the zone two training for the same
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: reasons that men do zone two training. Uh, And if
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: they're thinking about metabolic flexibility, I think that they may
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: be referring to There are a couple of things that
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: they're referring to, and one of them is the you know,
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: how much fat we burn during exercise and many trial,
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: many studies have shown that women do tend to burn
• 39:40
  Speaker 4: more fat during exercise than men, so they're more metabolically
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: flexible that way, and they can better access carbohydrate stores.
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: But both studies aren't done on perimenopause or women. They're
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: done on young women. And I think this is where
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: the where the real difference lies, because there is there
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: is research to so that women in perimenopausal and postmenopausal
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: age are less metabolically flexible, you know, they lose that
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: metabolic flexibility, so they lose the ability to burn fat,
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: which sort of suppress so they have a suppressed fat oxidation,
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: so they're more likely to burn sugar and rely on sugar.
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: And that's when that sort of kicks off, this metabolically
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: inflexible system. And if you can't, if you can't burn
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: fat as a fuel substrate and you need to rely
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: on sugar, then you just run the risk of ramping
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: up inflammation, fluctuating blood sugar levels, increased cravings produce energy.
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: And that's just from an almost like what someone might
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: feel point perspective, but under the hood, it's you know,
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: it sets you up for poor metabolic health. So the
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: idea that women in our age group don't need to
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: do zone two training just seems it doesn't make sense
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: in my mind, to be honest.
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: Yes, and we're both forty seven.
• 41:06
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, But I like something that you said in
• 41:10
  Speaker 6: the podcast in one of your podcasts where you said,
• 41:13
  Speaker 6: just because we might be born more with more.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: Type one muscle fibers, doesn't mean that we stay that
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: that's the way we stay for the rest of our life.
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: Well, you know it's interesting, Hailey, because I looked at
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: that research too, and you know the research that I
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: saw on it, and I maybe I might be missing
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: a whole bunch of papers, which you know, it could be.
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: But from what it appears is that women do tend
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: to have a higher percentage of type one fibers competed
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: to men. But those amount of fibers in our body
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: is actually quite a small percentage of the overall fiber
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: types that exist, so that they would make a real
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: meaningful difference to your metabolic flexibility is questionable to begin with.
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: But also some of the research I see that it's
• 42:03
  Speaker 4: used to promote the idea that we don't need to
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: do zone to training. That research itself shows that sort
• 42:10
  Speaker 4: of beyond the age of sixty, those differences change, Those
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: differences are no longer there. So you know, if we're
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: thinking about women as we're perim and we're into perimenopause,
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: postmenopause and beyond, like, there is no real difference between
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: men and women in terms of those muscle fiber types
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: as well. So one I don't know how meaningful that is.
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: It might be clinically, it might be statistically significant, but
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: how meaningful is it in real life? And two those
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: differences seem to dissolve. And hey, but again, like I say,
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: I'm not diving into muscle type muscle fiber type papers
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: every day and haven't done a PhD on it, so
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: maybe I could be missing something.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, well for your PhD and nutrition, this is what
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: I always get asked to and I'm running course right now,
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: and so these questions are are it's a very large
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: large group and there's a lot of questions. Can you
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: lose or what is the current research say about can
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: you lose visceral and body fat if you aren't in
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: a calorie deficit?
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: No, in order to lose in order to lose fat,
• 43:28
  Speaker 4: So you like, in terms of if you're going into
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: a fat loss phase, you absolutely need to be in
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: a calorie deficit. Visceral fat might be different, like, because
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: visceral fat can change when you change your diet or
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: change your practices around training and when you This is
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: in fact where a little bit of intimittent fasting for
• 43:51
  Speaker 4: these people might actually be beneficial. But fat loss requires
• 43:55
  Speaker 4: a calorie deficit.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: Yes, okay, So I mean that's the hard thing is.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: I think that a lot of women, at least coming
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: into my courses, they have always been under fueling and
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: over exercising, and they're like, I don't want to go
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: down that road again. And I think there's a whole
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: different conversation for disordered eating. Yeah, and that I'm not
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: talking about today. But if we look for the general female,
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: that's like, Okay, I got the message, I'm going to
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: start strength training, I'm cleaning up my diet. I'm you know,
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: listening to all of these things that you say, I'm
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: adding more protein, blah blah blah, all of this stuff.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: Can they significantly shift their body fat percentage the amount
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: of body fat they carry if they are not in
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: a calorie deficit.
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: I don't think so.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, I haven't ever seen it. I mean, there's body
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: recomposition where you can like lose fat, build muscle.
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: It's such the holy grill that for.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: Women that I work with one on one, it's it's
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: just not that like these body transformations aren't half any
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: happening where you're in a surplus and losing body fat.
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: No, No like that that they're like what I think, Hailey,
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: And this is in my practice, women who are quote
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: unquote doing all the right things, there's just something missing.
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: And this is where you know, we knew how I
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: said earlier, I said in our earlier episode that you know,
• 45:33
  Speaker 4: I don't necessarily think all women need to track calories
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: or track protein like that. You know, that's not something
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: that I do a lot of counseling around. But if
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: you are someone who feels you were doing all of
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: the things and nothing's shifting, then you then you need
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: to track. Actually, like like that is I think so
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: like I think, you know, if someone who's I work
• 45:56
  Speaker 4: with a couple of different sort of types of women,
• 45:58
  Speaker 4: and one type is one that seems to have dieted
• 46:01
  Speaker 4: all of their lives, They've done all the things, and
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: they've never really sort of been successful long term. But
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: then I've also been I also deal with women who
• 46:11
  Speaker 4: have been lean all of their lives and they've never
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: had to exercise in a way to manipulate their body composition.
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: It's just sort of naturally been you know, slim, So
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: they're healthy because of course we've always you know, I
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: use I did a little quotation marks there, because we've
• 46:28
  Speaker 4: always we've always equated being slim with being healthy it's
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: not the case, but that's just how our mind operates.
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: But then once they come into perimenopause, they don't necessarily
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: gain weight, but their body composition does change, and they do,
• 46:43
  Speaker 4: you know, they get a little bit leaner in the
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: limbs because they lose muscle masks, they get a little
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: bit rounder around in the middle, and they just don't
• 46:53
  Speaker 4: feel in their bodies. And I and so for these
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: two different women, like the first one I just described,
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: where they felt like they were doing everything right, like
• 47:03
  Speaker 4: they could benefit from tracking to actually seeing what's going
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: in because sometimes they are still over eating on calories
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: even if they're good calories, or they're doing what Laura
• 47:14
  Speaker 4: was talking about in our previous conversation where they're starving
• 47:18
  Speaker 4: themselves in the morning and then they're absolutely overshooting later on.
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: So actually picking up those habits are really helpful. But
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: then if you are a woman like the one I described,
• 47:30
  Speaker 4: who has been lean all of her life and now
• 47:33
  Speaker 4: now only struggling with body composition changes, they may not
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: necessarily need to track. They actually probably do need to
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: just focus on upping the protein sources in their diet,
• 47:45
  Speaker 4: and they've likely got appetite regulation cues already in place
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: because they've been lean all of their lives, you know,
• 47:51
  Speaker 4: and so they probably can regulate a lot better and
• 47:55
  Speaker 4: may not necessarily need to track.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: Yes, And I love that you said that, and I
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: love this that you had on your Instagram. I deserve
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: to way less for the work I'm putting it. Yeah,
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, how many times have you heard of like
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: this all the time? Haley, I'm doing everything right. I'm
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: doing everything right, and so it must be that my
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: thyroid is low or it must be this. But ninety
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: nine percent of the time, and this is a super
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: hard conversation to have with someone when they're not getting results.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: Is they're like, well, maybe I'm not doing enough. Hit,
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: maybe I'm not you know my food timing is. I'm like, no, no, no, no,
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: take out all of that and let's look at the basics. Yeah,
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: very basic. So when someone says that to you, I've
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: been putting all this work like most of the time.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: Is it that they're eating too much or is it
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: because the protein timing is off or they're not doing
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: enough of the right cardio?
• 48:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, it's one hundred. It is that they're eating
• 48:53
  Speaker 4: too many calories. Then their body is able to burn,
• 48:56
  Speaker 4: you know, And I guess this is a good time
• 48:59
  Speaker 4: to sort of just think about the other lifestyle factors
• 49:02
  Speaker 4: that come into play that do change how your body burns.
• 49:05
  Speaker 4: Calories too, write like the lack of sleep, like distress
• 49:11
  Speaker 4: like these do impact on our hormones and impact how
• 49:14
  Speaker 4: your body utilizes carbs and fat. And it can mean
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: that even if you are on lower calories, you can
• 49:24
  Speaker 4: your body can sort of almost it'll take those calories
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: and store them rather than burn them. So, particularly women
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: of our age group, stress and anxiety for a lot
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: of women can sort of kick up quite a bit,
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: and that will impact both how their body responds to
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: the food that's going in, but also their behavior around food,
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: you know, in what they choose to eat. And so
• 49:52
  Speaker 4: those are other difficult conversations. It's so much harder to
• 49:55
  Speaker 4: talk to someone about stress, I feel, because you almost
• 49:58
  Speaker 4: have to get them to examine these parts of their lives,
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: which which then mean they have a hard conversation with
• 50:06
  Speaker 4: the people around them. You know. Where's so much easy
• 50:08
  Speaker 4: just to give them a diet plan. You know, that's
• 50:10
  Speaker 4: what they want to tell me what to do, To
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: tell me what to do, and I'll just blindly follow
• 50:14
  Speaker 4: it and you know, all is great.
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: So let's talk about that.
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: Because in the courses that I run, we have a
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: clinical psychologist that has you know, her PhD in behavior change,
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: and most people, I'm going to tell you, I don't
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: even think they listen to most of those episodes or
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: they fast forward because they're like, this is the boring stuff.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: I want you to tell me what to eat, and
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: I want you to tell me how to exercise, and
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: this is the fun stuff. And I'm like, but if
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: you don't change the habits and the behaviors, yeah, you're
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: not changing anything. And I noticed that you said, if
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: you're not losing weight, look at the snacking for someone
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: that maybe doesn't want to have track or literally like
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: every time I always tell my groups when I go
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: into a fat loss phase, which I haven't for a while,
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: but I'm like, I would give them myself a SEM minus.
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: Like here I am running the course and like I
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: don't want to measure and ounces everything that I everything
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: that eats, but I can usually do it because I
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: know what's in the food. I have the education because
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: I have tracked at some point for education, but I
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: also have changed some of those behaviors and habits around
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: it to get success. So how important do you feel
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: like that is?
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: It's the thing, Haley. It actually is the habits and behaviors.
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: It's the food prep, you know, It's the food planning.
• 51:33
  Speaker 4: It's knowing what you're going to eat well in advance,
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: if not a day in advance, like maybe several days
• 51:39
  Speaker 4: in advance. Like, I think these are the things that
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: are really important because you can't wing it out there.
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: You know, you can, you can freestyle, like you can
• 51:50
  Speaker 4: prep three different protein sources and two different salads and
• 51:53
  Speaker 4: decide how you're going to have them throughout the week.
• 51:55
  Speaker 4: But you can't wing it and expect to be successful
• 51:58
  Speaker 4: because that environment isn't set up to allow for you
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: to be successful. There is food everywhere, Like if you're
• 52:04
  Speaker 4: starving and you're going into like I don't know, Walmart
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: or something, and then I mean there's you know, food
• 52:11
  Speaker 4: every but there's even food and like closed stools like
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: Forever New and I don't know what other closed stores
• 52:16
  Speaker 4: you guys have, but you know that, yeah, there.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: Is no Yeah, if you make the USA, I mean
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: I've been to New Zealand and I've been to Australia
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: multiple times, and I'm like, there's not a McDonald's and
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: a Burger King on every single corner, like it's all
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: in your face. And you walk into the Target or
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: the Walmart and the whole back to square aisle is
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: complete junk food.
• 52:41
  Speaker 4: Yes percent. And the thing is, you do need to
• 52:46
  Speaker 4: exert some discipline and will power, particularly at the beginning
• 52:51
  Speaker 4: of a fat loss phase, for example. But if you
• 52:53
  Speaker 4: set your diet up right so you are hitting the
• 52:55
  Speaker 4: protein that we're talking about, you're not overshooting carbohydrate, you're
• 52:59
  Speaker 4: feeling satis with your meals, and you have actual defined
• 53:03
  Speaker 4: rules around how you eat. That sounds very dogmatic, I
• 53:09
  Speaker 4: completely appreciate that, but this is the discipline that you
• 53:12
  Speaker 4: need to exert that allows you to not have to
• 53:15
  Speaker 4: rely so much on willpower. You know, like when you're
• 53:19
  Speaker 4: underfueling and under eating and training faster and then and
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: then and then continuing that fast across the course of
• 53:26
  Speaker 4: the morning, You're like, just like, you've got very little
• 53:29
  Speaker 4: You've got a lot of discipline up until that point,
• 53:31
  Speaker 4: but you've got very little willpower. It's like a muscle
• 53:35
  Speaker 4: that we exert and you've used it all in that morning.
• 53:38
  Speaker 4: Unnecessarily so and it just sort of does you in.
• 53:41
  Speaker 4: So the whole idea of no snacking, like you just
• 53:44
  Speaker 4: make it, you just take it off the table, like
• 53:46
  Speaker 4: you're just not a person who snacks, you know, breakfast, lunch,
• 53:49
  Speaker 4: and dinner, And you make these rules and you stay
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: by them, and I just think there's real freedom there
• 53:53
  Speaker 4: because then you don't have to come into every opportunity
• 53:57
  Speaker 4: to eat, like then you have to make the decision
• 53:59
  Speaker 4: do I snack, do I not snack? What do I
• 54:01
  Speaker 4: have to eat? How much should I eat? You know,
• 54:03
  Speaker 4: these are things which can really tie people in knots,
• 54:08
  Speaker 4: and so often they get it wrong. Now, if you
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: are someone who traps calories and you've accounted for these
• 54:13
  Speaker 4: calories and you know how this is going to affect
• 54:16
  Speaker 4: your overall energy budget by the end of that day
• 54:20
  Speaker 4: or the week, by all means work in your snacks.
• 54:23
  Speaker 4: But if you're not someone who's going down that road
• 54:26
  Speaker 4: and you're just sort of basing it on sort of meals,
• 54:29
  Speaker 4: then I feel like these rules are really important initially.
• 54:33
  Speaker 4: And what I will also just say is that it
• 54:36
  Speaker 4: is actually work to change your body composition and to
• 54:39
  Speaker 4: also maintain that. So and that's not a bad thing,
• 54:43
  Speaker 4: you know, like that really isn't to exert discipline in
• 54:46
  Speaker 4: this space. Isn't obsessive, It's not like you've got a problem.
• 54:51
  Speaker 4: It's not it's not all of these negative connotations that
• 54:56
  Speaker 4: people often associate with looking after yourself, because is actually
• 55:00
  Speaker 4: just looking after yourself and your health in the long term.
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: And I'm not sure why we expect that we should
• 55:04
  Speaker 4: just be able to do it, because you just can't
• 55:06
  Speaker 4: do it now environment we do have to work on it.
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: And then just when you feel that it gets easy
• 55:11
  Speaker 4: and then gets hard again, so just expect it to
• 55:14
  Speaker 4: get hard again, so you know that you have to
• 55:16
  Speaker 4: continue to work on it, and just I don't know,
• 55:20
  Speaker 4: just pack yourself on the back every single day that
• 55:22
  Speaker 4: you've managed to achieve largely what you set out to achieve,
• 55:25
  Speaker 4: and celebrate the fact that you are working towards your health.
• 55:28
  Speaker 4: And I think people don't celebrate that enough either.
• 55:32
  Speaker 5: That's such a good point. I love that you said that.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so if we're looking I love that you say
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: a good diet doesn't happen by accident. And for me,
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: I feel like the preparation, yes, number one. But for
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: those people that again, calorie tracking can work for some people.
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: Some people need it and they love it, but then
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: for others, they're like, it does my head in the
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: second I think I'm going on a diet and I
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: have to track, I like push back most of the time.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: If I'm just like, pay attention to your portion side
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: and cut out snacking. You are not going to die
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: by missing your two snacks in the day.
• 56:07
  Speaker 4: Yes, No, totally, It's totally the same. And you know,
• 56:11
  Speaker 4: and also I find it hilarious that people come into
• 56:15
  Speaker 4: my program and I just started one actually this week,
• 56:18
  Speaker 4: and so I've got several hundred people in there and
• 56:21
  Speaker 4: we're talking, and I get all of these emails going,
• 56:23
  Speaker 4: I'm so excited to start this. Can I still eat
• 56:26
  Speaker 4: this breakfast? And can I still do this? Want this thing?
• 56:29
  Speaker 4: Will we become so attached to our food? You know,
• 56:33
  Speaker 4: so many people sign up for a plan but don't
• 56:34
  Speaker 4: even really want to follow it. They sort of just
• 56:36
  Speaker 4: want approval of what they're already doing, you know. Like
• 56:40
  Speaker 4: I find that mentality really funny as well. And we change, right,
• 56:45
  Speaker 4: And I always say this to people as well, is
• 56:47
  Speaker 4: that is that we have these narratives in our head
• 56:50
  Speaker 4: of the type of person we are, the type of
• 56:52
  Speaker 4: foods that we eat, the things that we do. And
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: these are narratives that have just been ingrained for years,
• 56:58
  Speaker 4: if not decades, but you can shift them and evidence
• 57:02
  Speaker 4: builds confidence. So part of it is this is why
• 57:06
  Speaker 4: the behavior change work that you do, Hailey, is just
• 57:08
  Speaker 4: so important. I wish more people understood that, because that
• 57:14
  Speaker 4: is what they need to change. They need to change
• 57:16
  Speaker 4: how they talk to themselves about their diet and their
• 57:19
  Speaker 4: fatness and the exercise. They have to change how they
• 57:23
  Speaker 4: view themselves. They have to sort of almost change, like
• 57:28
  Speaker 4: some of what they think they like and don't like
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: and like tastes change as well. Like you, you know,
• 57:35
  Speaker 4: you might think that you couldn't possibly give up your
• 57:39
  Speaker 4: I don't know, like raspberry frappuccino or whatever it is,
• 57:42
  Speaker 4: but go without for ten days and you'll find you'll
• 57:44
  Speaker 4: just really love, you know, the new egg white bites
• 57:48
  Speaker 4: and is Americano whatever it is that you're changing to.
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: You know, yeah, yes, and when you see you can
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: you can't eat your way to a better physics. So
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: here we're saying, I think the nutrition is the biggest
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: component most women can get to the gym.
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: My job's easy.
• 58:05
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: I put out the strength program and it's like, well,
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: just go and do it, and then this one overloads
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: onto the next one, on to the next one. If
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: you have intelligent programming, it's you know, it's it's hard
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: to do. Good programming is hard to do. So there's
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: a lot out there that are just all over the place.
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: But the nutrition is what throws people off. So when
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: you say you can't eat your way to a better physique,
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: what does that mean.
• 58:31
  Speaker 4: I mean it comes back to what we were discussing
• 58:34
  Speaker 4: with well bone, but also like muscle, like muscle required
• 58:38
  Speaker 4: to build muscle, you need to do strength training, but
• 58:41
  Speaker 4: you can't. Yes, you can lay down some lean tissue
• 58:45
  Speaker 4: by increasing your protein, like we know that you can
• 58:48
  Speaker 4: do that. So but ultimately the biggest driver of that
• 58:52
  Speaker 4: physique change, which is what I think a lot of
• 58:54
  Speaker 4: women want in terms of being more They call it toned,
• 58:58
  Speaker 4: but it's actually building muscle, you know, like this this
• 59:02
  Speaker 4: is the thing that they come to me for. But
• 59:04
  Speaker 4: you need to do the training for that. Like the
• 59:06
  Speaker 4: diet supports a good intelligent training program, and oftentimes with diet,
• 59:13
  Speaker 4: if you're just relying on that calorie deficit. You just
• 59:18
  Speaker 4: end up being a smaller version of yourself. You're not
• 59:21
  Speaker 4: building your body, you're sort of you're just becoming a
• 59:24
  Speaker 4: smaller version of yourself, which may or may not be
• 59:27
  Speaker 4: a good thing. And for a lot of women who
• 59:28
  Speaker 4: aren't engaging in strength training, it's not necessarily the best thing.
• 59:32
  Speaker 4: But what I do feel is like a lot of
• 59:37
  Speaker 4: women are quite intimidated by some of the messaging around
• 59:40
  Speaker 4: exercise right now. You know, like we were talking about
• 59:44
  Speaker 4: the Zone two training. You know, like you shouldn't do this,
• 59:46
  Speaker 4: you have to do this, you know all of the
• 59:49
  Speaker 4: rules that are put around that. But as I understand
• 59:52
  Speaker 4: it is that it's that progressive overload to failure. And
• 59:56
  Speaker 4: you'll know way more than I do, I'm sure, Hayley.
• 59:58
  Speaker 4: But and you know, it's actually challenging the muscle is
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 4: the main thing. It's not about having to do sets
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 4: of repetitions that then place you at risk of injury.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure exactly I mean. And I definitely preach
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: using all rep ranges because you can't stay in one
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: rep range and keep getting even with varied trainings and
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: overload methods. The body needs a variety, but it needs
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: intelligent a variety, and there's different purposes in different plans
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: for each rep range. And my goal as more and
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: more women are coming into the space is I don't want,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: you know, a whole generation of injured women that are
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: out for nine months because they're like, well, now I
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: have these tendinopathies, or now I threw out my back
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: and I can't do this. Usually it's well, you did
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: too much too soon, or you know you weren't ready
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: for this, or your form is. I mean, there's a
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: lot that goes into it that way, but there's I
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: don't believe in any absolutes.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: There's one way.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: There's tools in a toolbox that have to be worked out.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: And I think that's the message that you're saying for
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: women out there, like if this works for you, I'm
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: never going to discredit you know that this works for you.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: If this works for someone else, provided that they're all
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: under the umbrella of everything we've been talking about. Those
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: are the important things that there isn't an exact approach.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 3: And I think that the women in.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: This age, and you can say how you feel, but
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: they come in almost desperate because they are thrown advertisements
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: every day about what is the exact thing to do,
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: and they're just like, I'm freaking tired of like, now
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: this is it good?
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: Now this is good? This is bad. You know, this
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: is what I should be.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: This is why I'm not getting results when it's a
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: time thing. I mean, do you ever see body compositions
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: completely change and you know, a couple weeks.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 4: And I you know, people have just promised these these
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 4: these results that are just well almost seemingly impossible but
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 4: absolutely unsustainable. And I think I feel like that's really
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 4: important as well. And you know, we spend for a
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 4: lot of women, they spend their thirties to mid forties
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 4: gaining weight but not really not really noticing. You know,
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 4: it's sort of eating to ignore. And I know some
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: people won't understand this, but literally, someone can stand on
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 4: the scales and be fifteen kilos thirty pounds heavier and
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 4: not even really realize it because of you know, they
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 4: haven't really paid attention and things get a little bit tighty,
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 4: just wear slightly different clothes, you start buying slightly different sizes,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 4: and then suddenly you were thirty pounds overweight and didn't
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 4: even know it. But that happened over the course of
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 4: you know ten years, whereas I don't think anyone should
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 4: expect to be able to then in twelve weeks go
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 4: back to where they were ten years ago. So you know,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 4: a hell sort of rain. A healthy amount of weight
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 4: to lose in a sustainable fashion might be anywhere from
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 4: say point five to one percent of your body weight.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 4: Now we know that rapid fat loss does work, though,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 4: Like I think Bill Campbell, who I believe is an expert,
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 4: and you know, he's done some great research. You know,
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 4: you go in, you lose that, you come out at short.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 4: It does the job, But I'm not sure how suitable
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 4: that method is for a lot of people that I
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 4: work with. But I mean, you know, it's good to
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: know that it can happen. But I think people should
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 4: look at their you know, we need to be patient
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 4: and look at this as like a long term way
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 4: of doing things, like a forever approach. And it's just
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 4: it is like a very aversion of your forever diet
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 4: and your forever exercise plan. But right now the version
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 4: that you might need to use is one that ellstits
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 4: a fat loss rather than one that just allows you
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 4: to maintain a healthy physique and allow one to two
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 4: years for that. Like I have women that when I
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 4: started my group program, it was in twenty twenty one,
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 4: and they've done several of my plans and they sort
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 4: of come in and they lose like six or eight
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 4: kilos and then they maintain that weight for like six months,
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 4: and then they joined the group again because they love
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 4: the community, but they also want to take the thinking
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 4: out and they're ready to hit that loss again. And
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 4: this is how they use that approach. And I think
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 4: that if you are patient, you almost take off the
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 4: pressure that you have to do it all in twelve weeks,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 4: you know, and that it has to be done immediately,
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 4: and this is such an important thing, which you know,
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 4: we should almost relish this opportunity to to make these
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 4: changes because their changes for our health, and you deserve
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 4: to feel good when we're doing it. And then also
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 4: understand that it takes time.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: Yes, okay, I'm two important points. Number One, I love
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: Bill Campbell. He's actually coming on to be a guest
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: expert along with you for a Q and A. I mean,
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: and he's just I think he said once, and he's
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: seriously the most humble, nicest guy, and he's like I
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: think I know more you know about fat loss than
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: anyone else, and this is what I'm telling like, this
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: is what the science said, this is all I've devoted
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: my life to.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: So it's so great.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: But I you know, I've had women come in that
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: are like, well, I you know, I thought I was
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: going to do a twelve book program and have arms
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: like you, and I'm like, I'm been building my physique
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: for five years, like it doesn't just happen overnight, but
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: to wrap it up because I know we're out of time.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: I love your mindset, I love the habits that you
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: teach women, and I love your kind of nobs approach
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: where it's just like if the science changes, Mickey changes
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: and it isn't afraid to change your mind based on that,
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: and knowing that we have so much to learn about
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: this perim postmenopause phase things. In ten years, you know,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: our kids are going to be way more about it,
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: like the better off than we were coming into the space.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: So that's such an important piece of it too. So
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: I have so many more questions.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 3: But thank you Micky again.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: For coming on and just for your personality and for
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: the ability to really give us straight information that means
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: so much to me and I just appreciate everything that
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: you're doing in the field.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 4: Well, thank you both. Like I really I loved as
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 4: you can tell, love talking about this, could talk about
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 4: it all day, and these conversations I think are really important.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 4: So I'm just so thrilled to have the opportunity to
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 4: come on your show and be able to have them
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 4: and share them with a wider audience. So thank you
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 4: so much, thanks for listening.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 5: If you enjoyed this episode, please consider giving us a
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 5: five star review and sharing the body Pod with your
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 5: friends next time.