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From Black Sheep to Beloved - with Shanda Fulbright · True Comfort

• Teasi Cannon (00:01) Hi, I'm T.C. and I want to welcome you to true comfort, where it's our desire to live out 2 Corinthians chapter one, verses three and four, which assure us that we have a God who comforts us in all our afflictions and encourage us to share the comfort that we've received with those who need it. And I also want to welcome my guest, Shanda Fulbright. Shanda, thank you so much for being here. Shanda (00:25) Thanks, TZ, I'm excited to talk to you today. Teasi Cannon (00:27) I'm excited too. I want to just read a little bit of your bio and then I'm going to ask you to share a little bit more about your ministry so Shanda is a wife, a boy mom, And the host of the Her Faith Inspires podcast where she examines cultural issues through the lens of scripture. She teaches apologetics, co-authored Let's Get Real with Dr. Frank Turek. and equips all ages to defend the faith. Shanda is passionate about biblical literacy as the foundation for a biblical worldview. And I know recently I saw online that you and Frank are putting out the curriculum for middle school kids as well. Can you share a little bit about that? Shanda (01:08) Yes. Yes, we have three total now that we've written together. The first one we wrote was in 2021, which is crazy that it's even been that long. I think it came out in 2022 to be exact, because the last few years seem like they've been a blur. Like you've had COVID, then you've had life after COVID. that's, you know, I'm like, gosh, life after COVID has gone by so fast. But I love it because we take these Teasi Cannon (01:20) well. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Shanda (01:36) higher level apologetics concepts and we break them down at a level in which I say middle schoolers can understand, but really even adults who have never gotten into apologetics, I think it's a good place for them to start and some of them do start there. I've, know, his book, I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist is one that we had to read when I went to the cross-examine instructors academy in 2021. Teasi Cannon (01:49) Mm-hmm. Shanda (02:05) never thought in a million years that we would take that and he would ask me to help him. But because I was a former public education teacher and have had that training, have my job is to break down concepts and build up, you know, at a level of students at. we've done that. And now I get to teach this online to students really all over the country and in some parts of the world. We have a lot of Canadian students, Dominican Republic and Dominican Republic students. Teasi Cannon (02:16) Mm-hmm. Shanda (02:32) So I just feel such a privilege and honor that God has taken me from that public education and move me into ⁓ apologetics where I'm reaching kids in farther and wider than I would have done in one little classroom, which classroom teaching was wonderful and I loved it. But just, I love doing what I do now. So yeah, we're getting ready to start that in September. Teasi Cannon (02:54) Okay, I ⁓ also taught public education for many years. I don't know if we mentioned that, because I know recently we got to talk, because I was a guest on your podcast, and then we've also had some conversations on the phone, which I've really enjoyed getting to know you. But yes, I taught middle school for several years in the public education system, so I really have a heart for middle school kids, and that you are teaching apologetics, which again, most of my listeners Shanda (02:59) Really? No! Yes. Teasi Cannon (03:24) probably know by now what we mean by that, but it's intentionally learning reasons for what you believe and specifically. reasons for the Christian faith, for the biblical worldview. But I actually love middle school kids. as a teacher you just kind of choose what do I have a tolerance for? And I had such a tolerance for the goofy, hormonally challenged years of middle school. And I agree with you that one of the easiest ways to learn is to read any subject. at a grade school level because in order to teach grade school or middle school, you really have to boil down to the main points and be able to clearly explain it. And I have read many books, even the books I read my grandkids, I'm thankful for because it makes the concept very basic and then you can build on it in the complexity that you study. So ⁓ I will leave information in the show notes about how to to find more about you and also specifically this this curriculum we've been talking about, but before we get started talking about the heart issues in this conversation, I thought I would just ask you a little bit about what got you started intentionally wanting to substantiate your own faith? Shanda (04:40) Yeah, think looking back, that's kind of a, I think there's been a progression to it. You know, I was raised in church. So I, God was, I grew up with God, I guess you could say. And so I knew about Him, but I remember getting baptized at a young age. And, but I really didn't make that decision to follow the Lord, like consciously make that decision until I was 17. And I feel like the reason why is because I assumed that I was a Christian because I was raised in a Christian home. And so I have always heard the terminology of Christianity. I mean, my mom was very diligent. And so we said the blessing every night. We sat around the dinner table together. I mean, had a great childhood in that regard and said that, you know, prayed together in the car on the way to school. And even today, that prayer, I pray with my boys when we're in the car. It's funny because I'm like, oh my gosh, the things that stay with you. But I was 17 at high school when I realized I wasn't serving the Lord for myself. And I was I was doing all the things I was involved in youth group and stuff. But I decided then that I would follow the Lord because I I was praying some random prayer and I ended that prayer with I love you, God. Amen. And the question came back to me was, do you really love the Lord? Teasi Cannon (05:39) Mm-hmm. Hmm. Wow. Shanda (06:05) And it was such a sobering question that I was like, it seemed like I paused for a moment to contemplate whether or not I would even answer truthfully. Because I knew I could say, sure God, you know I love you, but I knew that that wasn't true. But I decided to be honest and say, God, I don't love you because I don't know you. I said, the next thing I said was help me to know you for myself. Teasi Cannon (06:07) Mm-hmm. Wow, yeah. Shanda (06:33) Because I was also, there was a fear in that moment because I understood the implications of that truth that if I did not love the Lord and I did not have a relationship with Him, then those had eternal implications. Like that did not just affect the now, it affected the rest of my life and the life after this. And so I'm thankful that I was honest with the Lord. It taught me a lot of things and kind of everything that I do now is anchored back to that 17-year-old confession. Teasi Cannon (06:46) Mm. Mm-hmm. Shanda (07:03) I tell myself now, if you do not do what you do, podcasting, teaching kids, ⁓ going and speaking at a conference, writing a book, no matter what it is, if it is not anchored in the desire to know your Maker, then everything that you do is for nothing. Like I want to stand before the Lord today. And I was actually thinking about it this morning, how God is so good and He doesn't look at our works. sometimes we can say, but I didn't read my Bible today. my gosh, am I a good enough Christian? Teasi Cannon (07:18) Mm. Mm-hmm. Shanda (07:33) But really it's not in anything that we do. Our salvation is because of what Christ has done for us. Yet God, if we just serve Him, if we surrender to Him, He will say, well done, good and faithful servant. And it's like, even out of all that He does, and nothing is of my own doing, we still want to hear those words, well done, good and faithful servant. And I thought, wow, God, you're still good because you still say those words to us, even though it's nothing that we do that gets us to... Teasi Cannon (07:46) Mm-hmm. Shanda (08:03) heaven to be with you forever. And so, you know, the words of my 17 year old self have kind of pushed me along in these years of my life to anchor me to the desire to know the Lord and to anchor me into not losing my way because you can do so many quote unquote good things, even ministry for the Lord, and you can put your stock into that and you can lose the reason why you're doing it. so, you know, growing up in church, I never heard the word apologetics. Teasi Cannon (08:21) Mm-hmm. Shanda (08:33) I didn't really, we didn't emphasize discipleship. I grew up in a charismatic upbringing and you know, I want people to know I don't like to say the denomination because people think that that's bad. Like that's a bad denomination. But there is something to be said about too much emotionalism. So I did still continue to seek feeling God and the Lord was teaching me at 17 that it's also about knowing Him, not feeling Him. Teasi Cannon (09:01) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Shanda (09:03) So when we ran into the crisis, the world crisis of 2020, that's when my family, my boys came to me with questions and I dove into apologetics and that spurred me on, pushed me on even further in my walk with the Lord. So I feel like it started when I was 17, but also has become this progression over the years, because nobody arrives, know, even now I'm like, one day I'll look back at. Teasi Cannon (09:25) Mm-hmm. Right. Shanda (09:30) today and say, my gosh, look at how little you did not know and look where God has taken you, which is a great thing. Teasi Cannon (09:33) Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I often feel like the more I study, the more I realize I don't know. It's like, okay, really. But it's a beautiful humility to have. And as you were talking, so much of that is so encouraging. really understanding that a faith that's built on emotions can easily be dismantled by emotions. But Shanda (09:42) Yes. Teasi Cannon (10:01) but that God created emotions as well. so we should expect for him to love us and to feel him, but also knowing him, I think is sometimes confused with feeling him. And with what I learned even late in my Christian life, I mean, I was focused on the Lord, but it didn't start studying apologetics or even theology intentionally till late in my Christian life. But I always thought I knew him and then I didn't realize that knowing him is also an intellectual endeavor. So it doesn't have to be one or the other, but without one or the other, it is missing something very important. And if it's just all emotion, we're vulnerable. And if it's just all head, we're vulnerable to losing our way in one way or another. the heart of the conversation today is for. ⁓ not only for people to see that they're not alone in a Christian life that includes hard things, but I love introducing my listeners to Christian apologists because they also have experienced, God's comfort but you've also studied evidence for what you believe and so in this ⁓ conversation I'm inviting Christian apologist, to open their hearts and their minds in a way that helps listeners bolster their own faith, maybe have some new tools in their tool belt for when they or people they love might go through periods of doubt. And also to just highlight how God's comfort is so. substantial as opposed to some of the counterfeits that we are faced with regularly. God's promises are not empty and that is what we are excited to focus on in this conversation. So Shanda has ⁓ been so sweet to want to come on and open her heart for us. And so I just gonna let you take it from there, Shanda, just something that God has brought comfort to you and ⁓ I'm gonna stop talking. So you go ahead and take it. Shanda (12:12) Yeah. You know, there's so many, there's so many things and moments that I could bring up and that I could say where God has comforted me. And a lot of times the comfort comes when nobody else can answer, give me an answer. The comfort is in the darkest nights. I think when you're laying in your bed, and you cannot sleep and everybody else is asleep and God who never sleeps wrestles through those things with you. And those are the times when I don't have to have the Bible open. I'll have to have an apologetics argument in front of me. It's the It is the voice of God who is ever present with you, who reminds you of the things that he has said in his word. And those are the things that I appreciate. Those are the moments when God is the most real to me because there is nobody who can comfort in those moments apart from God and knowing what his word says. The Holy Spirit promises that he will remind us of the words of Jesus and every word in the Bible from beginning to end. Since they are God inspired and Jesus is God, they are from they are from Jesus. So, you know, I think about those. So could I bring up hundreds of examples? Yes, I can. But one of the things that I wrestle with throughout life, I think there's some things that you don't just get over. There are some things you have to wrestle through. And I tell people all the time, we are going to have to wrestle through things. Sometimes you might think that you're over something or over a hurt or over a doubt or whatever it might be. Teasi Cannon (13:38) Mm-hmm. Shanda (13:51) And it comes back up again. You're like, what the heck? thought we put this to rest, but we have to remember that you have to wrestle through things and you wrestle well, just wrestle well, wrestle through them well and don't be disappointed or feel like a failure if they come up again. One of the things for me and I, I don't, I've never shared this and I don't share it. And I've debated sharing it because I'm like out of respect for my Teasi Cannon (14:02) Mmm, it's so good. Shanda (14:21) my mom, I really don't because my mom, she doesn't like to talk about the circumstances around, you know, my my birth, you know, it was like, I always think like, why don't women talk about certain things like the older generations? Like, you don't tell us about puberty. You didn't tell us about menopause. You don't tell us about like anything. Like, what the heck is less like a generational thing or is this just like my mom? But, you know, for me, we we me and my sibling. Teasi Cannon (14:36) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Shanda (14:49) siblings were raised in church. My mom and dad were not raised in church. My mom actually comes from a family where it's it's Middle Eastern. my dad, my great my grandpa is from India. So my mom's middle name is Singh S-I-N-G-H. I mean, you can't get any more Indian than that. And there was kind of harsh anyways. they got her and my dad met at church and started going to church. So they raised us in church and they gave their hearts to the Lord, but they weren't discipled in under the Bible or faith or anything like that. And when my mom got pregnant with me, she was a senior in high school. And I think for her, it was a little bit shameful. And my mom and dad didn't say they didn't they didn't even tell me and my brother and sister until I was older. And I wasn't the one to calculate time of birth. when they got married, you know what I mean? I'm like, I just didn't investigate. I did not think anything of it as a kid. And, but my mom and I had, we had our struggles with me growing up and it didn't make sense to me. Cause I'm like, why, why is my mom kind of this way with me and not my, this way with my sister who was younger than me? And so it really affected me with anxiety. ⁓ I remember going to my first grade teacher and just telling my first grade teacher. Teasi Cannon (15:39) Mm-hmm. Shanda (16:04) Like my mom loves my sister more than me and it was during recess and that's how a six year old articulate something like that. And I know that that's not true now, but I think there was always just something there that I could tell something was not the same. And that's how I articulated it with her. And anyways, my dad ends up telling me around 10 or 11, like, Hey, here's the birds and the bees. And by the way, we got pregnant with you before we got married. And I don't know why they felt like they needed to maybe Teasi Cannon (16:06) Hmm. Shanda (16:35) He just thought one day you're going to calculate the time and you're going to figure it out. We want to let you know. And the first words out of my mouth were, so I'm a mistake. And, you know, and he's like, he kind of got upset. He's like, no, you're not a mistake. I don't know if my mom was in the room and was there, but she didn't have any part of that conversation. My dad took the brunt of that. He told me to this day, my mom does not like to talk about any of that. I don't know any circumstances surrounding. Teasi Cannon (16:44) Hmm. Mm. Shanda (17:05) what it was like for her to be pregnant with me, you know, because I think for her, like I said, I think for her, it was shameful. She was embarrassed, something to that degree. And I get that. So I try to tread very lightly with it. But what it brought for me was a very sense, a very real sense of belonging and struggle with, does God see me? Does God know? I wrestled with a lot of that growing up. And my mom has acknowledged, like, I know you've had a lot of insecurities. Teasi Cannon (17:12) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Shanda (17:34) growing up and I know that's a lot of my fault and I apologize. So she had apologized to me probably about 10 years ago and I couldn't believe it because there were times when I thought, am I crazy? Am I just imagining that my mom treats me differently? But the real effect of it was the struggle and the anxiety that it brought. I really wrestled with the what ifs all the time, ⁓ just not feeling good enough. Teasi Cannon (17:38) Mm. Yeah. Shanda (18:02) And everything that I did, I chose to be a teacher. My mom's a nurse, my sister became a nurse, my dad was a police officer, my brother became a police officer. I told myself, I am going off the beaten path here. Like I felt like the black sheep in a way. And so, and I know that those things were never spoken of by my parents who said, you're looking, you're doing your own thing. You're so independent and you're so like going off on your own here. But I felt that way. I just felt different. Teasi Cannon (18:16) Mm. Mm-hmm. Shanda (18:30) I felt different and I think that made me feel like I wasn't accepted. And if I wasn't accepted, I felt like I wasn't wanted. And, you know, so I would have to wrestle through those things. And my dad was a great comfort to me growing up. He would put me in the car and drive around and say, one day when you move out, it'll be better. It'll be easier. And I'm like, well, I don't want to wait till I move out. Like I don't want to, like I'm not moved. I'm like 15, you know? So my point in saying all of that was, Teasi Cannon (18:47) Wow. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Shanda (18:57) Those were very difficult times. And I remember I would get a pen and a piece of paper and I would write how I would feel. And then I would take it, rip it up and throw it away. Cause I was like, no one can see this. Like my mom cannot see this. Like, and then I would tell God like, why Lord, why do I have to be, why do I feel this way? Why do I have to be the one that's not loved or misunderstood or rejected or whatever it might be. And I would get angry with God. And one day I, remember standing in my room and just yelling at the Lord in my own head, of course, because I would never I was never brave enough to like be outspoken or rebel or anything like that. And one of the things I started to realize is like the Lord. I almost felt like the Lord was a father to me when I didn't know he was I could have that kind of relationship with him. Like the Lord has reminded me often throughout my life that this is not, when you look at, because I was struggling with identity, which affected me with anxiety. And everybody, we have an identity crisis in our culture today. Kids are struggling to even know if they're a boy or a girl, which is the bottom of the barrel when it comes to identity. I mean, that's biological reality. That's very much. Teasi Cannon (20:10) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Shanda (20:22) observational in a lot of cases. mean, that's pretty easy. But identity is huge for everybody. Even when they're growing up, it's harder for the younger kids to know. You're already struggling with that anyway. But one of the things I realized is when the Lord, to know the Lord, like to be an image bearer, everybody's an image bearer. You don't have to have a relationship with God. In relation to His creation, He is God. Teasi Cannon (20:24) Mm-hmm. Right, right. Mm-hmm. Shanda (20:51) and this is his creation, but in relationship with his creation, he is your father and you're his child. To be in Christ changes all of that. And the Lord began to show me even in those days of not knowing where I fit and being so insecure about who I was, God was there to comfort me in those times when I would write or be in my room by myself. And I can look, I look back today and I say, God, you were always there. Teasi Cannon (20:53) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Shanda (21:21) Like you were always there helping me through that. And then when I go through things in life as an adult, the Lord brings me back to, I'm a father to you, Shanda, I'm your father. And that's what comforts me is the relationship with the God of creation who spoke all of these things into existence and who has intelligence in the DNA, the design of our bodies and our DNA and... Teasi Cannon (21:38) Mm-hmm. Shanda (21:47) in the universe itself, but that same one in relation to his creation invites you to have relationship and you call him father and then you know where you belong and your identity becomes more clear. That is a process. That is not an overnight thing. And a lot of people think that those truths are just automatic and you won't struggle anymore. And that's not true. Sometimes those truths... Teasi Cannon (22:01) Mm-hmm. Right. Shanda (22:14) There are truths and you know them, but they have to be reminders as well. You have to anchor yourself to them. And over the years, those truths have become comforts to me. And all apologetics did was solidify the truths. They just made my faith stronger in those truths. But God is the one who revealed. God is the one who showed himself as a loving father. And so those are the ways that God comforts me. Teasi Cannon (22:19) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Shanda (22:43) And when you feel like in the comfort, you know, we talk about feelings and how you don't want to rely on them. They have their place. God gave them to us to remind us that we're humans. makes Dollywood and Disneyland so much more fun, you know? So yay for that. But they have to follow the truth. They don't lead. And that's where I've learned in my journey with emotionalism, because I can't say that I didn't want to feel God. But when you know Teasi Cannon (22:53) Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Shanda (23:12) the things about God, the truths about God. And then in those moments of despair, He reminds you of those. You do feel comfort. You feel comforted. So there is something to be said about the feeling of the Lord, but it doesn't come without the truth of who He is. Teasi Cannon (23:20) Right. Right. And even sometimes if I haven't felt him imminently, there is evidence that he has gotten me to the next day. You know I can see cumulatively. and feel this genuine sense that God is with me and comforting me which then becomes a reminder and like a memorial stone to cling to for future. So you're building this case like you said it's not one and done it's just this constant relational you were there for me before I can trust you now and combo with the truths but I wanted to first of all thank you for sharing that I can relate so much to everything you're sharing it's interesting to me When you hear things that you, you we're just basically getting to know each other, but the similarities are always really neat as far as just providence, how God puts people together and how. we can relate to one another. you know, my mom, don't, just to share a little bit about how I can connect with your story, my mom also, well, she got pregnant with me when she was 19, but she wasn't married. And so I can understand this feeling of, okay, was I a mistake? And I also have had these root lies. And I think what I was hearing is that you had sort of a root lie, I don't belong, or I'm a mistake. and I can so relate to that but I'm wondering if you can share does that regularly or here and there as you've grown, get triggered sometimes. That lie, I don't belong, I'm a mistake. It wasn't a one and done lie that you got the truth for. So do you ever experience times in your adult life where a triggering event will happen and you're once again battling this lie, I don't belong, I'm a mistake? Shanda (25:21) OTC, yeah, mean, just with, parents are, you know, I always would worry like that if I had daughters and I had two, would I pick one to favor over the other? And I'd be like, my gosh, what am I gonna do if that happens? And then I ended up being a boy mom, like, don't have to worry about it. And I, you know, I'm like, but then again, I'm like, I was the one to make sure, like nobody thinks that I'm like favorite or to the other. Teasi Cannon (25:48) Yeah. Shanda (25:48) ⁓ So that's always in the is always somewhere in the back of this mind I don't know if it's too far back to be honest with you, but it comes up in things that Like if you saw my prayer journals I finally had to go throw them away like my prayer journals because I would write when my kids were born because my my brother and my sister We all had our first one month apart four weeks boom boom boom our first enemy in my Teasi Cannon (26:15) Wow. Shanda (26:16) had boys and my brother had all girls. So we all have boys and girls. The second set, two months apart, boom, boom, boom. And then the third set, we finally got wiser like a year apart each. But with even with the way that my mom and dad would gravitate towards certain grandkids, you know, I was like, there it goes again. It's like rip open the wound that you thought healed. And you're like, my gosh, I feel this rising up again, like Teasi Cannon (26:27) Yeah Mm-hmm. Shanda (26:44) in the world like and you as an adult you you get frustrated and you're like should I should I say something should I bring this up and you're wrestling through because you're feeling rejected all over again or you're feeling less than all over again but that transfer is over I think people naturally have that like I was I was talking to some girls okay the fall brought this the fall brought the the language of the garden is it is good good good Teasi Cannon (26:57) you Shanda (27:12) We use language like, I say awesome, although that's awesome. Oh my gosh, that's great. I love it. Wonderful. You know, we don't use language of the garden. Language of the garden to us is mediocre. It's just good. It wasn't until after the fall that Eve started to see the wrinkles coming because you know, the fall brought death. And so with death, you have this aging process where she's like, oh my gosh, she's younger than me. Or the... Teasi Cannon (27:12) Mm-hmm. Hmm. Shanda (27:38) I have more wrinkles than her. You start to compare and then when you compare yourself, there is only a better or a less than. There isn't everybody is on equal playing field. So I think we're always, we measure ourselves up against other people. And when you're already feeling inadequate, you can easily do that, but it's so dangerous because I say women compare men compete. And that's, can thank Adam and Eve for it because that's kind of what, that's what we do. And Teasi Cannon (27:39) Hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Hmm Shanda (28:08) We're not supposed to compare ourselves yet. That is exactly what I have had trouble with. There are young girls today who have trouble with comparing themselves with people on social media. I don't, I wasn't raised in that generation. I could give a rip what somebody puts on social media. Half of it's fake anyway, you know? So I'm like, whatever. But I have a hard time comparing myself with myself when I was better. Teasi Cannon (28:25) Mm-hmm. Right, yeah. Shanda (28:38) at something than I am now, like as I get older, or have a hard time comparing myself with other people around me. And I think there's something to be said about sibling rivalry. So when you have a few siblings in your family and you're already feeling like you don't compare, you're like, my gosh, am I as good as her? Are my parents as proud of me as they should be? So it's really difficult and it can transfer over. It continues to be a part of life. Teasi Cannon (28:38) Hmm Shanda (29:06) if we do not recognize that that is the enemy pinning us against each other for one. And two, I really think the root of it is not seeing our value in Christ period and who he made us. There are going to be, you I think Solomon says, and I'd have to see if it's Solomon who says, talking about you're going to have the younger who comes up and he's going to be faster, he's going to be smarter. It's good that the race is to the swift. Teasi Cannon (29:08) Mm-hmm. Mm. Shanda (29:36) Okay, that changes from day to day. It actually changes from Olympic period to Olympic period. You have people crushing records every new Olympic season. So it's like, we cannot do that. We have to anchor ourselves. Like I had to go back to who is God, who is God and who am I? You cannot answer that question, who am I, unless you first answer that question, who is God? Not as who is God to me. Teasi Cannon (29:41) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Shanda (30:04) but who Teasi Cannon (30:04) Right. Shanda (30:05) is my authority? Who is the God responsible for all of this? And if it's the God of the Bible who created me in his image, I have to settle into the fact that he created me with strengths and abilities and gifts and talents that he will use and it may not look like everybody else, but it's gotta be okay because in his image, I am valuable. Whether or not I, you I thought, Teasi Cannon (30:09) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Shanda (30:33) you're gonna graduate with your bachelor's degree in deaf education and you're gonna have made it, because you're gonna be the first one in your family to get that four year degree. And then I got it and I was like, waiting for something to happen and it didn't. And I thought, well, that's okay, it's because you don't have your teaching credential. Like you have to go another year, do your teaching, your student teaching, and then you'll have the credential and when you get that job at the school, then you'll have made it because you can only teach with the credential. Did that? Teasi Cannon (30:42) Hmm. Hmm. Shanda (31:02) and still waited for this magical thing to make me feel validated and it didn't happen. We're talking Tom Brady has won four, I think, Super Bowls, at least four, the most decorated quarterback in NFL history. I used to love the Patriots, so this is why I know this stuff. But he says, okay, and like I got my four Super Bowl rings and what, if we're looking to those things to be valuable in somebody else's eyes, Teasi Cannon (31:04) Mm. Right. you Mm-hmm. Shanda (31:30) you're gonna disappoint yourself, you're gonna feel like a less than, you're gonna feel like a not good enough. And I've had to learn that over the years. And when those things creep back up, those triggering moments, I have to say, and it gets easier as you, it's almost like a discipline of the mind. It's a discipline of the soul. When you say, look, you can go that route, you can go, but you know, you know, it's gonna be as empty as the bachelor's degree was. It's gonna be as empty as the credential. Those are good things. Okay, you gotta have them. Teasi Cannon (31:35) Right. Yes, yes. Shanda (31:59) But those things do not define you. anything in my life, if I've made any role that I have, if I've made any accomplishment that I've gained, the thing that defines me, then I'm gonna lose it at some point, because when that thing runs out, or when I retire, or when that thing collects dust on a shelf because nobody cares about the degree I've earned anymore, then guess what's gonna happen to my identity? It's gonna crumble with that piece of paper. So those things, what describes me, Teasi Cannon (32:13) Mm-hmm. That's right. Shanda (32:28) does not define me. Being a child of parents who have loved me, raised me in church does not define me. It's helped describe who I've become, but what defines me is being made in the image of God and the value that there's nothing that I can do or can't do that makes me any more or less valuable. That's hard to imagine and believe, but it's the truth that is gonna anchor you when a trigger comes because they're gonna come. And I could... Teasi Cannon (32:37) Mm-hmm. All Shanda (32:56) open up my prayer journals and show you all the times that they've come along the way in my life. And I've had to stop and say, you're gonna drive yourself crazy with this if you don't, if you don't go back to what's true. Teasi Cannon (33:09) Yeah, it is a constant. battle going on inside us. And I often feel that this is the moment that matters the most when we're triggered with an event and it will happen. I'm just assuming I'm going to have these for the rest of my life. The tonic lie that I battle is real close to yours. It's you don't matter. You are. disposable and that roots into some childhood wounding as well. And it happens every now and then in random ways. It could just be that I, ⁓ my children decided to do something and I wasn't there, you know? I mean, it can be as ridiculous as that, or it can be a true disappointment, ⁓ something that didn't work out and like applying for a job or who knows what the trigger is going to be. But what you just laid out is the choice we all have to make is there's a truth about this matter in the kingdom of God based on my relationship with him and who I am as his image bearer. And there is a truth that is presented to me through the world's value system. we're always it's the same question. Choose this day whom you will serve. Not only that choose this day whom you will believe. And so it's like we're faced with this big choice on whose definitions matter most and sometimes that's really hard to make that choice. I don't want to minimize the extent of that battle because we are living in this world. We are living with a constant temptation to compare ourselves from the moment we open our eyes and talk to any other human. There's going to be this pitfall available to us. So the question is, how can we make ourselves value what God says more on a regular basis? How can we make his opinions, his truth matter most? And you hit on that, something that I think is so important, and that is know him. Shanda (34:58) Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Teasi Cannon (35:26) His opinion, his truth, his definitions are not going to matter to us as much as the world's if our focus is mostly on the world. And the more we get to know God based on his character, like you said, not who he is to me, but who he actually is, who he declares himself to be in his own word, who he must be philosophically. the more exciting it becomes to me, and I know you agree, the more fulfilling it becomes to define ourselves through his lens. But we cannot decide that one day and sit on our laurels and just go, okay, great, because the very next day, it might be a week later, who knows how long we can live on that one day's fumes, but. Shanda (36:01) Mm-hmm. Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Teasi Cannon (36:22) It is a truth we have to defend. And it is like a territory that you win, but the enemy is all too willing to wait until you're relaxed so much that he can, however it happens in the spiritual realm, just beat you up again with these lies. Shanda (36:24) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, the step after knowledge though TC is obedience because it's what you do with that knowledge. Last year at the SES conference in Rock Hill, I was speaking during a block of a breakout. And when I saw the program next to all the names of the other speakers at the same exact time, there was PhD. The only one that did not have that was me. And I was like, my gosh, they put me in a block with all the doctors of this. Teasi Cannon (37:06) Mm. Shanda (37:12) their fields of expertise and then you have me. And you know, I feel like the enemy comes and whispers in our ear and says, yeah, because you're not good enough. Like, you know, you're just, you don't have the knowledge for this. And I had two choices to make. I could be like, I'm not going to do it. Or I could have been like, you know what? It doesn't really matter. What? Great. There are doctors in their fields. I'm glad they have the knowledge, but also Teasi Cannon (37:13) Mm-hmm. Right, yep. Shanda (37:38) The message that God has given me to speak today, I'm gonna go do it because I know who he is and I know what he's called me to do and doctorate or not, that doesn't qualify me. God is the one who's called me to this. We, like you said, I can't answer the who am I question unless I answer the who is God question, but then I can't answer the next question after that. Teasi Cannon (37:45) Mm-hmm. Shanda (38:02) after the who am I? The first question, the most important question of all the questions is who is God? Because if you don't get your God right, you will not get yourself or anything else right. Then you have the who am I question. So now I know who I am in light of Christ, who I am as God's creation. But now the next question is, okay, now what do I do? What's my purpose? If the purpose is knowing who God has created me, Teasi Cannon (38:10) So good. Shanda (38:27) that I'm just a public school teacher who got my certificate in apologetics and I take those really difficult concepts and I break them down and I'm going to go tell others how to do it. I have to walk in that obedience because I know who he's called me to be. And that's where my confidence comes from. My confidence doesn't come in my ability. And if we don't obey the Lord, if we're not walking in obedience after we have the knowledge of who he is, then knowledge is just the first part of that. Knowing who God is is just Teasi Cannon (38:39) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Shanda (38:56) It's great, but what are you going to do with it? It's not so you can twiddle your thumbs and feel good about yourself. It's so you can fulfill the mission. I mean, we're talking about the great co-mission, the co-mission with the Lord to go and make disciples of all nations, whatever that looks like in your sphere of influence. And so, yeah, I mean, we're in the apologetics world. A lot of them have doctorates. A lot of them are very smart. They're in the universities. Guess what? I'm not. Teasi Cannon (39:07) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm Mm-hmm. Shanda (39:24) But at the same time, I am a wife and a mom and I've discipled my kids in the way that I felt like I, this would have been great for me too when I was younger, but my mom and dad did a really good job. But I've taken that and I've taught them and been diligent to teach them. And now God is using that in the way that he wants to. So knowing who he is and anchoring ourselves to that truth is great. But the next step is walking in obedience to what that looks like because the next step is what is my purpose? How do I live in light of this truth? And if you don't go there, you're not obeying even though you have all the answers. Teasi Cannon (39:53) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. right and you're missing out on experiencing the the joy and the hope and just the fulfillment that comes from receiving God's love and giving it away like you if you if you just accept and know God and then you sit in your house alone all the time which That is one of the beautiful things about social media is we can interact with people even if we are homebound or if we can't leave our house. But if we are doing that as a response to just fearing that we aren't qualified enough or just being lazy or some other reason like that, we're going to be, we're missing out. It isn't the point. We aren't saved just to avoid hell. We're saved to be able to help be ministers of reconciliation. And So many of the things you said are just so key because yes, I'm in awe and I have so much respect for scholars who devote their lives to being content experts on some of the most minute details of the faith, which give us a lot of grounding and the ability to go read a great commentary or a scholarly work. I'm so thankful. But no matter what letters we have after our names, it doesn't change Jesus's character, his faithfulness or the truthfulness of God's word and his power. So I think. no matter what our education and like I think about the disciples, we had fishermen, had, you know, different ages, we had a tax collector who was hated in his community. these aren't all just the best of the best, the most educated, but they moved in the power and the truthfulness of Christ and his identity and his qualifications, which again, I have to constantly remind myself of as well. Shanda (42:03) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Teasi Cannon (42:04) bottom line this is a daily choice to receive truth and obey it And yes, some things do become easier because I think it's like muscle memory or any other habit we create. They do become easier, but we can never just think we've arrived. We can never just let down our guard. And I think scripture and Jesus, know, warns us of that. Put on the whole armor of God. Choose this day whom you will serve. The manna. I mean, thinking cover to cover how many things happen on each day at a time that must be done every day. Shanda (42:38) Yeah. Yeah. Teasi Cannon (42:40) And this brings me to the next question, which is, okay, we're doing this. It's a lot of effort. It's a daily battle. We're giving our lives to this. We're obeying this. do you have times even still, even after all of this, where you sometimes find yourself wondering, is this all true or am I crazy? Or have any type of doubt. in God's promises or your daily devotional life. Shanda (43:02) Yeah. I think about that sometimes. I'm like, my sister's a hospice nurse. And I always think about what those people or what I would tell them. Like if it were me and I was on my deathbed, I'm like, what would I want to be reminded of? I'd want people to come in and be like, look, you can have a surety in the fact that God exists and that there is heaven beyond this life. And I would tell them about the, I like the intelligent design argument. And I don't feel like, you for me, I never doubted God's existence growing up. I doubted whether or not God, whether or not I knew him and he knew me. My son came to me, my oldest came to me and said, I don't know if God exists and I can't just believe this because you told me. And so apologetics helped him and he's after a couple lessons. He's like, okay, yeah, I'm good. Like I believe it. But for me, I didn't do that. I've always struggled with... Teasi Cannon (44:02) Yeah. Shanda (44:08) does God see me? Does God know me? Do I really have a relationship with the Lord? And so for me, going back to his word always helps. When you grow up learning the Bible and then you hear apologetics arguments later on in life like I did, I was just like, ⁓ shoot, that's the puzzle piece. Put it in there, we're good to go. Teasi Cannon (44:13) you Hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Shanda (44:35) Now I know how to explain this and now I understand even better. But I'm studying Psalms right now, literally going through the Psalms. And I think I'm like on Psalms 8. I was in 84 and started all over again so I could study it. And one of the things it says in there is, the heavens speak of his handiwork. day, I think day speaks to the next day, like one day speaks to the next. And it's like, to me, the Bible, Teasi Cannon (44:51) Mm-hmm. Shanda (45:04) solidifies, supports those apologetics arguments. So I don't need those to show me that God exists. I need His Word to show me why we even have those arguments to begin with. I don't know if that makes sense if you know what I mean. Or if I'm reading the Word and the Lord speaks to me through that. ⁓ Now some people, TC, I don't know what you think about this, but when I read my Bible Teasi Cannon (45:08) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Shanda (45:33) and I don't feel anything. I don't walk away being like, I didn't feel anything. I love reading it for the truth that it draws out. one of those, at some point in my life, that truth becomes a, like a lightning bolt where I don't just know it. Now it's like it pierced the heart or the soul. And that's what I'm talking about. whenever I have a question, it's like when those words fire back to me, like I'm like, Teasi Cannon (45:41) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Shanda (46:01) I wonder about like when, know, we're looking at intelligent design and then the word comes to my remembrance. I'm like, I know God by the Spirit is working in my life to answer those questions, but he reinforces the knowledge. So it's not just knowledge, it's relationship as well. Does that make sense? Teasi Cannon (46:20) Mm-hmm. It does. but when you talk about intelligent design Just for the audience for the listeners. Can you explain a tiny bit of what you're saying? Not I mean just basic Yeah Shanda (46:33) Yes. Yeah. Okay. So in, in our, let's get real class that we're getting ready to teach the middle schoolers. I tell them, for example, intelligent design. If you see a painting on the wall in a room, when you go into that room, do you think that if there's a paint set and a brush and random colors of paint on the table, do you think, ⁓ the brush just painted the paint on the picture? Or did you say somebody must have been here to paint that painting? And they're all like, yeah, we would think the painter was here at some point. And I said, that's the kind of design we see in the universe. have 120 constants that hold this world together so that if one of those 120 were off by minute percentages or distances, life as we know it on Earth would cease to exist. We're not talking about one detail. We're not talking about five. We're talking about at least 120. Teasi Cannon (47:16) crazy. Shanda (47:32) The Bible tells us that it is the Lord Jesus who holds all things together. So when I look at those things and then I see that the Bible confirms that, that the Bible shows us that God is the painter, that He is the designer, that He is the creator. To me, I'm like, yeah, common sense. can see that statues and, you know, even when you go to South Dakota and you see the monuments, the four Teasi Cannon (47:39) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Shanda (48:02) presidents and ⁓ nobody's going to say a bad, really bad storm came. And now you have Lincoln on the face of this. Yeah. It's like, we all know someone chiseled that thing into because it's intelligent design. So when I see those things, like, I love that design argument. It's like, yeah, we, we all know anybody with who really wants to be honest, has to know that we see design in the universe, but the Bible told us Teasi Cannon (48:03) Right. Yeah, erosion. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. Shanda (48:32) first. The Bible tells us and so that's why for me I love to have, you know, I always tell people don't just teach apologetics. If you're in a Christian home, get a good foundation of the Bible because God's Word never returns void. I love the Word of the Lord. One example, I'm going to tell you this TC, this is, I feel like I'm so vulnerable on your podcast today because I feel like sometimes I'm going to seem kind of weird. Teasi Cannon (48:33) Right, right. Right. Mm-hmm. Well, thank you. Thank you. Shanda (49:00) But don't want people to think I'm weird because this is the goodness of God. few years ago, 2023. So it's barely gonna be two years ago in October when Israel is invaded by Hamas and they have like, think over 1200 people slaughtered. My dad, we have a big family group chat with siblings, nieces, nephews, everybody. My dad gets on there and says, oh my gosh, I'm freaking out. I pray that there's not a World War III and our boys are drafted talking about the five, the four boys that are of age two. And I'm like, you're talking to me and my sister, Jamie, my sister. You're putting this in our group chat and I've already been like just really just my soul felt vexed because of what was going on in the like I'm a I'm always a warrior of the unknown. What if this happens? What if that happens and I have to grab that or it'll get away from me. So anyways, I'm like, my gosh, I cannot believe you're putting your fears into this chat where a mom were already wrestling through some of these things that what if this stuff does happen? So that whole week I was just distraught. Teasi Cannon (49:49) Mm-hmm. Right. Shanda (50:04) I was just like, when I get that way, it's hard to eat. It's hard to carry on with my daily routine. I really have to just push myself through life. And I hadn't been felt like that in a very, very long time. So it doesn't happen often, but when it happens, it's really like I have, I kind of shut the world out and just, Lord, you got to help me. So that night I could not sleep and I was just struggling through that week. And I was like, Lord, Teasi Cannon (50:26) Hmm. Shanda (50:33) My boys are my very heart. There is like my heart is walking around outside of my body. cannot, like I know you want us to love you more than our family, more than anything in this world, more than houses and lands and all of that. But if you ask me to, if you test my love for you with this, I don't know how I would stand up against that. And the Lord in the middle of the night in the darkest hour was like, I am a father. My relationship with you is one of a father. Fathers don't test the love of their children. And that doesn't mean God's promising me that life's gonna be easy, that He will never call my kids to do something that might, or I'm gonna have to be like, whoa, whoa, wait a second, what is this? But what God is saying is that is not a father's love for a child to test, to see how much you love me, to test you with these things. And it comforted me so much because, you know, it's John 1, Teasi Cannon (51:04) Well, mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Shanda (51:32) when John is explaining that Jesus is the Logos, but he says, to all who believed in him, he had gave them the right to be called children of God. And the Holy Spirit was just reminding me, you're a child of God. This isn't about testing your love and seeing how quote unquote strong you are or committed you are. This is about a father's love and God gave you those boys and he loves them more than you do, which is hard for a mom to imagine. My point in saying all of that is when God's word comes back to me, Teasi Cannon (51:50) Right. Shanda (52:03) The arguments and the apologetics arguments are wonderful, but in those moments I need the heart of God. I don't just need the knowledge of God. And God has a way of coming through with the truth, which is the knowledge, but really making me feel in those moments His presence, that I'm not alone and that He's with me, He gets me and that He answers me. And I was just like, ⁓ my gosh, thank you Lord for that. Teasi Cannon (52:08) Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Mm-hmm. Shanda (52:32) God understands where I am at and He's not asking me to do certain things to test me. You know, and so I love apologetics, but I need both. I need both. Teasi Cannon (52:38) Right. Right, well and I see that reflected in the great commandment which is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. Jesus knew what it would take to experience the fullness of God, the kingdom of God, this side of heaven. He knew what it would take to hold fast to the hope, to the gospel, the good news. He knew and I think once we begin to practice all of that intentionally, Shanda (52:59) Yeah. Teasi Cannon (53:15) the study of the word, what do we believe, apologetics, why do we believe it, and practicing obedience, it becomes just this fluid constant of all that's the goal is to be able to just walk it out with our heart. Shanda (53:26) Yes. Teasi Cannon (53:30) walking our head home. I often see these cartoon figures when I think weird thoughts to them. Just my head and my heart are walking each other home and there's the goal is to keep it balanced so that one doesn't become a vulnerability over the other and that is a beautiful journey. It isn't we're not called to a blind faith of obedience with a harsh taskmaster or a blind faith in some pie in the sky feel good emotional I did want to say this too, is that God has revealed himself in two books, the book of nature and the book of scripture, and they will never ever contradict one another. And if we are thinking that they are, it's an interpretation issue. We want to continue to dig in and dig in, but the evidence of this beautiful intentionality that we have a creator that intends, that is intelligent and that has done things on purpose, for a purpose, and we are part of that. Shanda (54:09) Mm-hmm. Teasi Cannon (54:26) that we do belong, in Christ we are adopted into his family, that the hope that we have in Christ is not fickle and fading like this world, that it transcends our daily lives and is a solid truth into which we can anchor our hearts and our heads. I just love that and I thank you Shanda for sharing all that you did. So many words of wisdom there. the honesty and I do want to just say to the listeners that if this encouraged you at all I would just love it if you would share it with some friends who might need it. I also will make sure to include in the show notes information on how to find Shanda and her ministry. Shanda (54:46) Yeah. Teasi Cannon (55:08) And I hope that you will come back so that you don't miss a single moment of true comfort. Thank you guys so much for listening. Thank you, Shanda. Shanda (55:16) Thanks TC.