Latest / Career Catalyst / Ep 8 Jim Rinaldi - Urgency Not Panic
Transcript
- Rory: Hey everyone, welcome the Career Catalyst Podcast. I'm your host, Rory Devine. Today we have an amazing guest, Jim Rinaldi, the former CIO of Jet Propulsion Laboratories, JPL, NASA, former board advisor at Innovate UCLA, where I met him, and he's the current advisory board member of Abbason as well as Spark AI. We're gonna be jumping into this in flight mid-run because some recording that we had Issues with. So we are going to do this in two parts. You're gonna be here in part one right now. but I'm gonna drop us into this. And again, thank you to Jim for his time and his perspective. And thank you to everyone for joining. Hope you enjoy what he has to offer about his career, where he thinks people's curation of their career can go based on what he's learned in the past. What I f what I did take away from everything he's had over a 52-year career is frankly. Everything he has learned and done and accomplished is relevant to today to curating your own career. So hopefully you enjoyed as much as I did. Thank you. Okay, that's really great. And Jim, thank you for that. I know that was a broadbanded, wide spectrum question, so full apologies on that one. we would we will circle back and and and and let's let's go back to maybe at the beginning of your career and tell me you know, what got you into technology? Were you following a curiosity? Was there a mentor involved? So so tell me how did you you know, I I I gave some very significant titles in your career, but I think what will resonate with our leader, our listeners right now is what What got you into technology? What was your thought? Was it on purpose? Jim Rinaldi: Well Rory: Did you fall backwards into it? Jim Rinaldi: It turned out to be on purpose. it was deciding what I want to take in in college and I was going to schools in Florida. And I had been advised by many people to get in business administration. and I couldn't think of anything more boring to get into. So I was a science kind of a geek. I was gonna be a physicist. I loved all kinds of different science. But I got into computer science because that was something realistic and and something really emerging at that time, in the seventies, the the style of computer science at that time. And that drove me and I've never looked back. at that drove me to want to apply first of all learn computer science and then apply what I learned to solve problems and to create opportunities and that's what led me in my career. I was sort of I have a very patient exterior, but I'm very impatient interior. And so I had to learn quickly, I wanted to try everything and I wanted to be part of places I could learn. So my first job was while I was in school, was a bank data processing company, and yes we called it that back then, and Rory: Mm-hmm. Jim Rinaldi: worked the third shift so that I could go to school during the day and and things like that and so gave me a few coin and that the allowed me to learn how business worked in a different way. And so that was that was while I was going to school. By the way, I've been working for fifty two years. So this you know, this has not been something I started with a end date well in mind. Rory: Right. And you're still learning, you know, especially in the last few years. You're still but I'm I'm hearing Jim Rinaldi: Still learning. Absolutely. Absolutely. Rory: you you are a duck on the pond. You're very calm on the surface, but very furiously pedaling underneath. Is that is that how I hear it? Jim Rinaldi: I'm very competitive too, yeah. I it it's it's a strength 'cause I you know, first of all I've always when I learned to be and act like an executive, I learned that you never you show a sense of urgency but never a sense of panic. And that creates a a confidence and it gives you the opportunity to to succeed in many different things. Rory: So you you said you had a passion for science and it it sounds like computer science was the more tactile thing that you could kind of feel in front of you, which is why you went there. But it sounds like you were able to blend that in with other science when you went to JPL. So could you tell me how you ended up from Florida to Pasadena in that kind of regard? Jim Rinaldi: Yeah, th let me first of all I learned that I really enjoyed working with scientists. And I did that at my one of my first jobs after college, well, during and after, was the work I did with SEM organic chemicals. So I worked with chemist and I was I had to be as creative as I ever wanted to be with some of the hardest languages in the world to code in. And I w I enjoyed working with the chemist and doing column fraction. organization and things of that nature for a chemical company. so that that bodes well for me later. And so I went to a a a a company that made modems at the time, Paradigm, and I learned how a business operates and quite frankly how it shouldn't operate, and met my wife and and then we went to Marriott and that was because a friend of mine recruited me into Marriott in Washington DC area. And in doing so I spent sixteen years there and so I learned everything about customer care that you could learn that a computer science person doesn't just get born with naturally. So so that's th then after the a after sixteen years at Marriott it was like, let's try something new. And I went to IRS and believe me that was something new, but you know, we made some accomplishments there and I was kinda proud of that, but man, what a hard place to work. And then I went to FDA. Rory: How did you make the jump from that just the was that a personal network connection as well, or did they find you? How did you jump from the Marriott private sector to the public? Jim Rinaldi: Well the the commissioner commissioner of the of the IRS at the time, Charles Rosotti, very famous man in the DC area, started his own IT company and things like that. A friend of mine called me and who was a recruiter and he said, Jim, can you just do me a favor, can you just interview with these guys just to do that for me? And I said, sure, why not? Well, it was the most fascinating interview I've had. And and so Charles recruited me. And so I left Marriott, which is very difficult to do because I was really invested in the company. And and so I ended up joining IRS. Didn't have the best time but also had a health problem and that health problem turned out to be a helpful for me finding the FDA because that was about health and things like that. So I went to FDA, had the best time of my career It was a short time, it was only three years, but I just enjoyed the people, enjoyed what they did and how noble they were there for noble reasons and it was just a lot of fun. And then I got recruited to JPL and at the time my wife wanted to move to California and I wasn't sure. I had a couple of other offers if I wanted to stay in the D C area, so I went to to JPL. Now, why is that important? FDA had scientists and researchers and Rory: Mm-hmm. Jim Rinaldi: And then go beyond that to JPR which of course is, you know, all about science and engineering and and doing sometimes the most impossible things you can do. Rory: I I f I found Jim Rinaldi: So that's how I got there. Rory: that that I f I found that resumes you often tell a story, but if you read them from the beginning to the end, chronologically they may not, but on the on hindsight they they you can see how one informed the other as you made those moves. So Jim Rinaldi: Yeah. Rory: You're very, very well networked person and especially out here and that was one of the first things I I I noticed about you. It seems almost effortless. is that where you did you you said you weren't born with that as a computer science so was that something you learned in D C? Like where did that kind of come in in your career? 'Cause I think Jim Rinaldi: Well, p part of it, I grew up at Marriott, I would say, to be an executive, you know, be a director, be a vice president, be a senior vice president. And you watch others. This is the technique I I think everybody should do is watch people you admire and learn from their style. learn something from. Bill Marriott is is an amazing man, amazing company, and you could learn a lot from, you know, him and the executives around him. And and so I did. I took advantage of that and and you learn you learn some traits. So how to peep peop how to treat people, how to present, how to communicate, how to translate, which is the hardest thing for a lot of IT technical people, translate the tech into normal language. language so that people could so you can have an effective communications. And so I hope I hope I learned to do that well. In many cases I think I had. Rory: That's fair. I I think if if you ask me the number one trade skill of of a technologist, I think would have to be translation. I I think just inherently difficult or internal people who ex who use an exclusive language that is very acronym based. I'll never truly understand it. it almost seems very it seems very on purpose. Jim Rinaldi: Yeah. Well that Well that made that made us important. 'cause we were different. We couldn't speak the business language or the language of business very well. So the fact that we could speak the language of technology made us feel and this is my own it it worked for me, it made me feel more important because it was what I knew and then when you get in front of important people you kinda show off what you know. Over time that does was not good and it did not work well with a lot of people and myself included and so I learned how to be a little bit more of a businessman who ran IT versus an IT person who was very technical. I was very technical in my young days. Rory: That's where I see the jump. I I always I always tell people hard skills or technical stack will get you in the door, but the soft skills will get you promoted. and that seems to be ringing true here. So you mentioned you were recruited again to JPL. Were you recruited by the comp the entity itself or did you have another recruiter friend? And then did you jump right into the leadership seat from there? Jim Rinaldi: No, Josh Groben, the singer's dad. Jack Grobin recruited Rory: Okay. Jim Rinaldi: me. Which I didn't know Josh or anything, but I just felt it, you know, it's like his dad was fascinating. I had no idea and then he told me and it's like, Wow, okay, California. So Jack is a great Rory: How did you leave that part out of the story? Yeah, that's great. so they just saw your background and and said that they could use you and and did did you what was Jim Rinaldi: Yeah. Rory: your first official title when you went over to to JPL? okay. So you brought in at the top. Jim Rinaldi: CIO. CIO. I was their first first executive level CIO. They had, you know, little pockets of IT all over the place and everybody could call themselves whatever they wanted to call But I was I came in reporting to the head of the lab and and and to also to, you know, just make executive decisions and they wanted me to fix a lot of things and luckily I had a inherited a really strong team with You know, I didn't have to revamp everything, I just had to organize it better. And that's Rory: Hmm. Jim Rinaldi: what we did. Rory: So you you said something a few minutes ago and that that sounds like an inflection point in most technologists' career. when when do you know that you have to make the jump from technologist into business or to the liaison to the business to kind of talk the languages? What w when Jim Rinaldi: Well Rory: is that a good indicator for someone? Jim Rinaldi: Well, I am gonna tell you a real brief thing. At twenty years old I became a supervisor of a this bank data processing sh third shift. And and they made me a supervisor at twenty years old. And so there were some people there who accepted that pretty well and there was one person who didn't. And so I said, Well, if you don't want to work, because she didn't want to work, I said, You're fired. Turns out I c I couldn't really fire her, but I didn't know that. And the next night she comes in and we hug each other and you know, almost cry, all that stuff, because it was like firing your mother, basically. And so that was kind of weird. But I learned something. When your managing people, when you're guiding people. That is what you have to do. And that was something you you know, I never had experience before. So I learned I learned how to do that and and then each job I got after that I went w very technical at Paradigm at the modem company. and I was learned how to be a manager because the management I had was so bad. that I said, I can do this job. And I did. And so I got promoted and became, you know, a ma technical services manager, systems programming manager back in the day. And that's where that's where I I I learned, okay, now I'm dealing with people. People who have all kinds of issues, people who die, people who succeed, people who need to be motivated. And well you learn a lot when you have that kind of responsibility and And then from then on everything was about people and knowing what the technologies could do so you could apply for business gain. And that's that's what I learned. And that's the journey into management, but it was a a weird start, to be honest with you. Rory: And did you actively choose management or did you see titles that you were chasing after and you're like, I can do that job, or did you no, you were just following? Jim Rinaldi: No, I was chasing I was chasing bad management out and to do that I had to become a manager. otherwise I was perfectly happy being very technical. I mean bits and bites technical. And and and and now as I'm this age, I almost wish I was still technical because so you could have so much fun with AI and and quantum computing and things things of that nature. So anyway, yeah, I I I did it because I just couldn't survive under the current management I had. It was so bad. And that manager who I had, he was a nice person, don't get me wrong, he ended up reporting to me. And that was kind of a weird dynamic. but over time, you know, I moved around and went to Marriott, like I said, and and Marriott being there sixteen years, you you certainly p pick up a few things about how to manage and how Rory: Hm. So are you of the school of thought that you you learn from good managers and bad managers? They're both teaching you things. Jim Rinaldi: absolutely. Absolutely. you know, I believe that, you know, management needs to evolve as much as we want companies to evolve and technology to evolve, as much as we want digital transformation to evolve, I think there should be a management transformation. And there has to be, because you can't manage the same way that we used to manage and and people still care, people still hurt, people still want to if you can get so here's my transition. When I started seeing more people who work for me or who had worked for me become CIOs, that made me the most proudest accomplishment I could ever achieve. The second was the second Rory: That's great. That's good to hear. Jim Rinaldi: thing was we won, this is when I was at JPL, we won Best Places to Work for like ten years in a row. and that was something I could be very proud of 'cause it was anonymous. I couldn't I couldn't play the numbers of games. And and that that excited me more than any personal accolade, CIA one hundred, hall of fame, all those are fine. But that was the I knew I had made the right transition when those things occurred. Rory: Great. No, I wanna pull on a thread that you mentioned earlier 'cause I feel like that dynamic is coming back largely now. And you were mentioning that there's an age dynamic where you were more technology competent or literate than your the people reporting to you. What I'm seeing currently in the market is the AI native college graduates coming in and just having a better technology stack or a more functional understanding of how to deploy new tools than people they're reporting to. And it's they're trying to help them. I think the term that we're using right Now might be AI roamer or forward deployment engineer, FEDs, and and the younger people who have the skill set to kind of help optimize workflows and kind of improve management, it's getting met very coldly. so how would you speak on that based on your experience coming up as as a young Turk and having to manage with the the legacy groups? Jim Rinaldi: I I well you know, today's technology becomes tomorrow's legacy. And so Don't get so married into how great it is, you know, because it too will mature. Everything matures. You know, cloud was very exciting when it first came in and we use the hell out of cloud early on. You know, at the same time, cloud is absorbed everywhere, but yet we still have data centers, yet we still have other things that you know, compete with that. So be careful the shiny horse you want to ride on because it it may change over time or tarnish over time. But utilize utilize the technologies of the day. I'm an emerging technology nut. I love emerging technology. And one of the beautiful things I got to do at JPL was create emerging technology that people cared about. And That excited me more than most things. I had some good people who worked with me who who believed in the same things and the lab enjoyed it. They wanted because I we let them participate with us. The lab the users of IT participated with us. So for me, when I Rory: Okay, so that was part one of our two-part podcast with Jim Rinalti, the former CIO of JPL and current advisory board member at Spark AI. If you need him, you can find him on LinkedIn. I will add contact information in the notes of this show. but stay tuned for the second part of this. It's a great one, and we will talk soon. Thank you.