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SMNTY Classics: Women's Magazines, Diet Culture and Sex Advice · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is They and Samantha and welcome stuff. I
0:07
Speaker 1: never told you production of iHeartRadio all right. Today, after
0:21
Speaker 1: our wonderful conversation we had with Michelle Norris, which I'm
0:24
Speaker 1: not sure if you've heard at this point because of
0:27
Speaker 1: the way our scheduling works, we did we talked about
0:32
Speaker 1: briefly women's magazines and you Samantha and typical Samantha form
0:39
Speaker 1: did a multi part.
0:41
Speaker 2: You know, you don't have to call me out like that.
0:43
Speaker 1: It's the New Year.
0:45
Speaker 2: I'm not going to change. It already happened, so come on.
0:48
Speaker 1: I don't think it's bad. I just think it's an
0:51
Speaker 1: interesting character trait. So this is not the one you
0:57
Speaker 1: actually mentioned in that episode, which was specifically about like
1:01
Speaker 1: kind of Southern living Christmas magazines. But I did want
1:05
Speaker 1: to bring it back because Michelle is sort of talking
1:09
Speaker 1: about where did this come from? Who is the person
1:13
Speaker 1: who's telling women you have to feel this way? And
1:16
Speaker 1: I think during the whole New Year's Resolution season we've
1:21
Speaker 1: already talked about how we don't really like that. But
1:23
Speaker 1: I've noticed, you know, I'm getting all of these emails.
1:26
Speaker 1: It's like, here's how you do this, and here's how
1:28
Speaker 1: you do this, and here's how you do this. And
1:29
Speaker 1: I think a lot of those women's magazines were for
1:34
Speaker 1: a long time the big perpetuators of that. So in
1:36
Speaker 1: this one we talked specifically about diet culture and sex advice,
1:40
Speaker 1: and I think in the new year, women are just
1:42
Speaker 1: bombarded with this stuff. So please enjoy this classic episode. Hey,
1:54
Speaker 1: this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stuff I've
1:56
Speaker 1: Never told you production of iHeart Radio.
2:07
Speaker 3: And we are coming back with an additional episode of
2:13
Speaker 3: women's magazines and Dot Dot Dot because well, I have
2:18
Speaker 3: elongated once again a very wide broad subject into several episodes.
2:24
Speaker 3: It's not going to be the same amount as religious
2:27
Speaker 3: trauma episode. Thank god, it's not going to be twenty thousand.
2:31
Speaker 3: I think I'm going to keep it at a succinct three, okay,
2:35
Speaker 3: because I have topics in mind. And with that, if
2:38
Speaker 3: you haven't already, we would suggest going back to our
2:41
Speaker 3: earlier episode on the history of women's magazines, because we
2:44
Speaker 3: kind of break it down on how it began, what
2:46
Speaker 3: it looked like, all of that and even the problems
2:50
Speaker 3: back then. Because for today we are talking about the
2:53
Speaker 3: state of women's magazines slash publications today and I do
2:57
Speaker 3: say publications because obviously they like the handheld copy of
3:03
Speaker 3: a magazine is less and less and you're more likely
3:06
Speaker 3: going to see digital, which, funny enough, I kept running
3:10
Speaker 3: into paywalls because I need to call somebody about that,
3:17
Speaker 3: because that was an issue anyway. Yeah, Annie, did you
3:23
Speaker 3: have do you have currently or did you have at
3:26
Speaker 3: any point a favorite magazine or did you even have
3:29
Speaker 3: a subscription.
3:30
Speaker 1: I looked this up because I knew we were going
3:33
Speaker 1: to be talking about this. I didn't have a subscription.
3:36
Speaker 1: I bought Entertainment weekly, not infrequently if it was a
3:41
Speaker 1: movie or a celebrity I like. I had a subscription
3:46
Speaker 1: to Disney Adventures, which was kind of a small magazine format.
3:53
Speaker 1: You're not seeing what I can do, but like imagine,
3:55
Speaker 1: size wise, most magazines are like eight by eleven. This
3:58
Speaker 1: one was sort of third of that. Maybe that's probably
4:01
Speaker 1: way off, but it was smaller, and I think I
4:04
Speaker 1: got it. I originally subscribed to it because I loved
4:09
Speaker 1: the Ulsen twins and they were somehow they were featured
4:12
Speaker 1: in it quite frequently. But I remember very vividly, and
4:16
Speaker 1: I don't know if we're going to talk about this
4:18
Speaker 1: in this episode of the next. But Ryan Gosling was
4:21
Speaker 1: on the cover one time as young Hercules, and I
4:25
Speaker 1: had the cover. I took out like all the relevant
4:29
Speaker 1: pages and saved them. But it wasn't him. That That's
4:34
Speaker 1: not why I started subscribing. It wasn't him. But I
4:37
Speaker 1: did save all of those and I remember the cover
4:40
Speaker 1: so clear. Now, I mean, we do use a lot
4:44
Speaker 1: of magazines for work. I think I'm still in the
4:47
Speaker 1: same Like, if it's like a Star Wars magazine, I'll
4:49
Speaker 1: get it. I went through a big I think Entertainment
4:51
Speaker 1: Weekly is pretty like it's been the same. I have
4:55
Speaker 1: a lot of friends who like seventeen, I went through
4:56
Speaker 1: a Time magazine period.
4:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, yeah.
5:01
Speaker 1: It's more like if I see something like, oh I
5:03
Speaker 1: really want that, it's less about a subscription thing, right.
5:07
Speaker 3: I remember Time magazine covers like nobody's business. For some reasons,
5:11
Speaker 3: those stand out. Kudos to the art director and the
5:15
Speaker 3: photographers because they would do their thing to make sure
5:18
Speaker 3: they would stand out. But then like I never had
5:21
Speaker 3: a subscription when I was growing up, my friends did,
5:23
Speaker 3: so I would go over to their houses and we
5:25
Speaker 3: would just go through the magazines and then like talk
5:28
Speaker 3: about them. I want to say, like I was really
5:31
Speaker 3: into music more so than anything else. I remember distinctly
5:34
Speaker 3: a picture of Salt and Peppa because they were one
5:37
Speaker 3: of my favorite groups when I was in middle school,
5:40
Speaker 3: so I remember seeing them a lot. But I never
5:43
Speaker 3: really had any magazines. Again, my mother had Southern living
5:48
Speaker 3: in her house, and I think she had good housekeeping
5:52
Speaker 3: in her house, and I think some of these subscriptions
5:55
Speaker 3: were fundraising subscriptions.
5:59
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you know.
6:00
Speaker 2: What I'm talking about.
6:01
Speaker 3: Like I remember, like that used to be a thing
6:03
Speaker 3: way back when you could buy wrapping paper as school fundraisers,
6:08
Speaker 3: but also you could buy subscriptions of magazines for a
6:12
Speaker 3: good deal. Seventeen dollars for a year subscription, so that's
6:15
Speaker 3: twelve magazines.
6:17
Speaker 1: I brought this back a stressful memory that i'd forgotten
6:22
Speaker 1: because I was one of the kids that would try
6:24
Speaker 1: to sell those wrapping papers. It was the worst. I
6:26
Speaker 1: hated it. It's like I'm a failure. I can't sell anything.
6:31
Speaker 2: Well, you know, there was this episode.
6:33
Speaker 3: I don't know if anybody watched Parenthood at any point
6:35
Speaker 3: in time. They are not gone, and there's some problematic
6:38
Speaker 3: things in that whole show. But I really enjoyed it,
6:41
Speaker 3: And one of the big episodes was that the kid
6:44
Speaker 3: was selling the Christmas paper for his baseball team to
6:48
Speaker 3: get uniforms and such, and he forgot and didn't do it,
6:53
Speaker 3: and so he already had the paper, which was odd
6:56
Speaker 3: to me because that was not the thing.
6:57
Speaker 2: You had to do it sign up for whatever.
7:01
Speaker 3: But like, uh, he yells at his mom for not
7:05
Speaker 3: being rich enough to just order it herself and not
7:07
Speaker 3: have to sell it.
7:09
Speaker 2: And I remember thinking that was a thing.
7:12
Speaker 3: The parents would be rich enough that they are the
7:14
Speaker 3: grandparents would just buy it all and they wouldn't have
7:16
Speaker 3: to worry about it because it.
7:17
Speaker 2: Was so stressful. It's like, what is this anyway? Wow,
7:21
Speaker 2: that's just yeah, on the whole tangent on that one.
7:24
Speaker 3: But yeah, subscription magazines were a thing as well, and
7:27
Speaker 3: appally I remember it being way back when in some
7:31
Speaker 3: movies that there were door to door salesmen. He would
7:34
Speaker 3: sell these as well, So it was a thing. It
7:37
Speaker 3: was a racket, and now it kind of has become
7:39
Speaker 3: a whole different thing with the digital world and print
7:43
Speaker 3: may be dying.
7:44
Speaker 2: Slash kind of is.
7:47
Speaker 3: We all love it somehow, But with that some context,
7:50
Speaker 3: now that we're actually talking about magazines, y'all before we begin,
7:54
Speaker 3: we are going to be talking about body and fat
7:57
Speaker 3: shaming as well as body dysmorphia and sexual content in
8:01
Speaker 3: this episode, so happy Valentine's Day, well ahead of time. Also,
8:06
Speaker 3: there's a lot of backlash that came out against women's
8:11
Speaker 3: magazines not too long ago, the O there was a
8:14
Speaker 3: whole reckoning in like two thousand and twenty ten.
8:17
Speaker 4: Uh.
8:17
Speaker 3: But also a lot of our information comes from then,
8:21
Speaker 3: so it is fairly dated. Like I said, it looks
8:24
Speaker 3: like more people were likely to look into how the
8:27
Speaker 3: magazines have become or can become more feminists or empowering.
8:31
Speaker 3: So that's good, and that's more recent, but in like
8:35
Speaker 3: the late nineties. Also we have some articles from the
8:37
Speaker 3: late nineties, so yeah, this is pretty dated nineties, early
8:40
Speaker 3: two thousands and twenty tens where we're talking about the
8:43
Speaker 3: problems with magazines and women's magazines specifically.
8:49
Speaker 2: So just that heads up.
8:51
Speaker 3: I think they still hold up because the same argument
8:54
Speaker 3: is repeating itself. And there was a lot of like
8:57
Speaker 3: overlapping of social media and magazine as well. So when
9:01
Speaker 3: we talk about it, especially when it comes to like
9:03
Speaker 3: teen stuff, it may be interchangeable. A lot of the
9:06
Speaker 3: research that we saw from like thesis and research papers
9:09
Speaker 3: again come from the late nineties and two thousands era,
9:13
Speaker 3: early two thousands era, because again, like I said, there
9:16
Speaker 3: was a big record and'll be like, why are we
9:18
Speaker 3: doing this? Why are you still doing this? You' all
9:21
Speaker 3: have a problem. So it's good to see that that happened.
9:25
Speaker 3: It's sad to see it's still happening.
9:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, ignore it now. A lot of when I'm checking
9:31
Speaker 1: out the grocery store, a lot of the times I
9:32
Speaker 1: look at the magazines, I'm like, wow, still.
9:35
Speaker 3: Okay, y'all, there's the cabbage diet. Cabbage soup diet is
9:39
Speaker 3: still really big, apparently because I love cabbage soup. I
9:42
Speaker 3: don't do it for that sake, but I would try
9:45
Speaker 3: to find the recipe. All the articles have it, and
9:48
Speaker 3: I was like, what, I just like cabbage soup. What's
9:51
Speaker 3: happening anyway? Yeah, And it's something to note that the
9:55
Speaker 3: print in itself has faded and moved towards digital or online,
10:00
Speaker 3: and we'll probably talk about that in the last episode.
10:02
Speaker 3: I'm going to say the next one is the last episode.
10:07
Speaker 1: I'm trying to convince yourself it's.
10:09
Speaker 2: Going to happen.
10:10
Speaker 3: I've narrowed it down two specific subjects, so I don't vary.
10:14
Speaker 1: So okay, well, we'll see, we'll see. I would also say,
10:19
Speaker 1: go check out our episode we did on fanzines because
10:21
Speaker 1: we did talk about some of this stuff in there.
10:23
Speaker 1: Yes as well, but yes, okay, women's magazines today, there are, yes,
10:29
Speaker 1: a lot of women's magazines still, and according to the
10:32
Speaker 1: Library of Congress, they estimate quote, more than seventy five
10:35
Speaker 1: thousand periodicals are published each year in the United States
10:38
Speaker 1: and Canada alone, and that number swells to over one
10:41
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five thousand worldwide. Consumer magazines alone account
10:46
Speaker 1: for more than twenty thousand North American titles, and women's
10:49
Speaker 1: magazines have consistently ranked in the top ten magazine categories.
10:54
Speaker 1: Of course, this includes all the different types of magazines
10:58
Speaker 1: and the articles from twenty twin three, so the numbers
11:00
Speaker 1: are not quite exact, but it's big. I would say
11:04
Speaker 1: that's still pretty close.
11:05
Speaker 4: Twenty two eight, yeah, twenty three, ten years ago or
11:10
Speaker 4: a month ago, we are.
11:22
Speaker 3: Going to kind of just delve into this ugly side
11:24
Speaker 3: of women's magazine. So, like we said earlier, the women's
11:28
Speaker 3: magazine industry has already had some shakeups, uh, and revamping
11:33
Speaker 3: what they are doing or how they were portraying women overall.
11:36
Speaker 3: And we mentioned this later, but yes, this is all
11:40
Speaker 3: cis heteronormative. Just go ahead and put that there. Okay,
11:44
Speaker 3: Unfortunately we will kind of dapple into it, but not really.
11:48
Speaker 3: So this is the way they focus. It is making
11:51
Speaker 3: sure women are women. And I say that sarcastically and
11:55
Speaker 3: not with that belief in that conversation and that type
11:57
Speaker 3: of statement, and that women all want a husband. Again
12:01
Speaker 3: obviously not what we think, so but this is how
12:04
Speaker 3: it's going to come out. But again, we can't ignore
12:08
Speaker 3: the massive impact they have had overall in.
12:12
Speaker 2: General to society.
12:13
Speaker 3: We talked a bit about the way early periodicals transformed
12:17
Speaker 3: women's fashion and encourage women to become more in tune
12:22
Speaker 3: with their habits and housekeeping, but it would continue to
12:26
Speaker 3: influence women, specifically when it came to body image, which
12:30
Speaker 3: quickly became a moneymaker for I think all of the magazines,
12:34
Speaker 3: not many, I think all of them.
12:37
Speaker 1: Yeah. In fact, according to a thesis done by Jamie S.
12:41
Speaker 1: Nobles from the University of Southern Mississippi in twenty fourteen
12:44
Speaker 1: discussing the depiction of Women's Body Image and magazines from
12:47
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty two to nineteen ninety five, and it talks
12:51
Speaker 1: about how advertisements within magazines changed over the years to
12:55
Speaker 1: influence women. They talk about how body types and models
13:00
Speaker 1: changed throughout history and also why that might be. Here's
13:03
Speaker 1: a quote. The hypothesis stated that the depictions of women
13:07
Speaker 1: would shift from curvy to thin women, but most of
13:09
Speaker 1: the magazine advertisements depicted women as fit slash average in
13:14
Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties, and the ads moved on to lean
13:17
Speaker 1: models as the years progressed. Although actresses like Marilyn Monroe
13:21
Speaker 1: were curvier and were thought to be sex symbols, the
13:24
Speaker 1: models in the magazines did not reflect her type of voluptuousness.
13:28
Speaker 1: There were fewer depictions of full figured women in the
13:30
Speaker 1: magazines than any other category. Most of the models were
13:34
Speaker 1: fit slash average until the nineteen seventies, and then the
13:37
Speaker 1: number of lean models spiked. Of the one hundred and
13:41
Speaker 1: eighty images viewed, lean was the most found model size,
13:45
Speaker 1: with ninety of the one hundred and eighty models perceived
13:48
Speaker 1: as lean. Fit slash average had the second highest number,
13:51
Speaker 1: with sixty six of the advertisements seen as healthy, athletic, build.
13:56
Speaker 3: Okay, of course, as was and curvy as Marilyn Monroe was,
14:03
Speaker 3: she would not be considered a plus or large size.
14:07
Speaker 3: In fact, her waist size would have been more like
14:10
Speaker 3: a small or even an extra small, and one size
14:13
Speaker 3: said even smaller than that, Like it wasn't even on
14:16
Speaker 3: a category of what we would see today. And though
14:19
Speaker 3: she was medium at the top, according to the clothes
14:21
Speaker 3: that people that the researchers have measured, and her hips,
14:26
Speaker 3: and she did have hips, she would not have been
14:28
Speaker 3: considered plus size today at all. Again, many want to
14:33
Speaker 3: claim that because they says she wore size sixteen, she
14:36
Speaker 3: wear size sixteen that they accord to French clothing and
14:41
Speaker 3: most of her clothing were tailored to her. But yes,
14:45
Speaker 3: she was curvy, sure on a different standard, Like that's
14:49
Speaker 3: that's a whole different conversation. I think waist size was
14:51
Speaker 3: typically twenty four inches small, and it got as big
14:56
Speaker 3: as maybe twenty seven And from what I all so
15:00
Speaker 3: is found, like it says that she uh probably weighed
15:03
Speaker 3: from anywhere from like one hundred and four to one
15:06
Speaker 3: hundred and fourteen and the most you's ever gotten was
15:08
Speaker 3: one forty and for her being I think five to four.
15:12
Speaker 3: That's not huge, that's not plus size. Let's just we
15:16
Speaker 3: just we're just gonna put that there in some of
15:18
Speaker 3: the changes in who was being advertised or what was
15:21
Speaker 3: being advertised actually has a lot to do with trending
15:24
Speaker 3: diet culture. Diet culture has been around for a long time,
15:30
Speaker 3: to the Greek days. They said, because the whole athletic
15:33
Speaker 3: look and all of that, and is a money making machine.
15:37
Speaker 3: We've talked about this with like influencers and all of that.
15:40
Speaker 3: This is a money maker according to different reports. And
15:44
Speaker 3: I will say I was very confused and maybe I
15:46
Speaker 3: don't understand the verbiage between like value market versus whatever else,
15:51
Speaker 3: because the numbers were everywhere, So I was like what,
15:54
Speaker 3: And again, this could have something to do with they
15:56
Speaker 3: only had something that was specific to weight management versus
15:59
Speaker 3: things like food, which even though they may not be
16:02
Speaker 3: diet culture, they use and use that influence anyways, like
16:05
Speaker 3: milk probably could still be considered.
16:08
Speaker 2: That level as well.
16:09
Speaker 3: So who knows, But with that estimated value of the
16:13
Speaker 3: dieting industry, slash market is as high as over four
16:16
Speaker 3: hundred billion dollars and seemingly increasing every year. Obviously, although
16:22
Speaker 3: it did take a little bit of a dip when
16:25
Speaker 3: a few years ago the whole body positivity became more
16:28
Speaker 3: popular and more accepted, which I miss. But then we
16:33
Speaker 3: now have the usage of products like ozimbic, which is
16:37
Speaker 3: being used as a cure all for weight loss and
16:41
Speaker 3: a giant money maker as well. It's no secret that
16:45
Speaker 3: the magazine industry has had a hand with growing this
16:50
Speaker 3: specific culture. Here's another quote from that same thesis. So
16:54
Speaker 3: why did women's bodies depictions should from fit average to lean?
16:58
Speaker 3: The researchers believes the key to that is the fitness
17:01
Speaker 3: exercise boom of the nineteen seventies. By the seventies, Americans
17:05
Speaker 3: awareness of fitness grew, and with that the role of
17:08
Speaker 3: exercise in American lives expanded, and exercise became part of
17:12
Speaker 3: the recreational pastimes. Jogging was one of the most popular
17:16
Speaker 3: forms of fitness. For example, the New York Marathon, which
17:19
Speaker 3: had previously only had approximately three hundred participants in nineteen
17:22
Speaker 3: seventy two, expanded to include more than eleven thousand competitors
17:26
Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy nine, with the influence of the Women's
17:30
Speaker 3: movement and Title nine, an act that imposed a gender
17:33
Speaker 3: equality in sports opportunities in educational organizations. A large number
17:38
Speaker 3: of women took up sports for the first time in
17:40
Speaker 3: the nineteen seventies.
17:42
Speaker 1: Right and it continues. The average size of men and
17:45
Speaker 1: women continued to rise during this time, and obesity numbers
17:48
Speaker 1: exploded in the nineteen eighties as food is made more
17:51
Speaker 1: readily available and fewer people cook at home, turning America
17:54
Speaker 1: into a fast food nation. Because of the fitness boom
17:57
Speaker 1: and the increasing wasteband of Americans, the diet industry takes off,
18:01
Speaker 1: and by the nineteen eighties is a multi billion dollar
18:04
Speaker 1: a year industry. Within the structure of that industry, there
18:08
Speaker 1: is a great deal at stake to keep women hooked
18:10
Speaker 1: into the obsession about their beauty, their weight, and their
18:13
Speaker 1: dieting practices. Advertisements that show women who are impossibly thin
18:18
Speaker 1: and beautiful despite their rising obsc rates are showing women
18:21
Speaker 1: what they should aspire to become. Women try to achieve
18:26
Speaker 1: the impossible, and so they buy the diet products that
18:29
Speaker 1: only guarantee a temporary solution to their weight problems. When
18:32
Speaker 1: the diet is over, the women will most likely gain
18:35
Speaker 1: the weight they lost plus some. The women then see
18:38
Speaker 1: the perfect women in the magazine ads and experience body
18:41
Speaker 1: dissatisfaction and decide to purchase more diet products. Thus an
18:45
Speaker 1: endless circle is created. The fact that diets do not
18:49
Speaker 1: work is the best kept secret in the diet industry.
18:52
Speaker 1: Only long term lifestyle changes will help women to lose
18:56
Speaker 1: weight and stay healthy. By presenting an ideal difficult to
18:59
Speaker 1: achieve and maintain, the cosmetic and diet product industries are
19:02
Speaker 1: assured of growth and profits. The shift the researchers saw
19:06
Speaker 1: from fit slash average women to lean women could be
19:10
Speaker 1: rooted in an economic ploy to keep women reaching for
19:13
Speaker 1: the unattainable.
19:15
Speaker 2: Right, And I think that's such a big emphasis.
19:17
Speaker 3: This is a ploy, yeah, which why the back and
19:21
Speaker 3: forth fat diets are huge. Atkins not a sponsor just
19:26
Speaker 3: does not want you to keep that weight off. They
19:28
Speaker 3: want you to continue to buy their products and tell
19:31
Speaker 3: you that's the only way you're going to maintain that way, right.
19:34
Speaker 3: There's so many things, of course, and we're gonna talk
19:38
Speaker 3: a little bit about this later, Like this can also
19:40
Speaker 3: create dangerous habits, which is really really unfortunate for later times.
19:45
Speaker 3: And I will say I bought into this and sometimes
19:48
Speaker 3: still do. I still do because I am so insecure
19:51
Speaker 3: and I've been taught I need to be skinny, and
19:56
Speaker 3: skinny means being a size three, which is impossible for
20:00
Speaker 3: like it will never happen, but for some reason in
20:03
Speaker 3: my head, I must, and therefore the pills that I
20:06
Speaker 3: see on self magazines is definitely gonna help me.
20:11
Speaker 2: It is not.
20:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, it's it's really it's effective. Get it
20:17
Speaker 1: in your head, and you think, well, if I just
20:19
Speaker 1: do this and do this, and I remember doing it,
20:22
Speaker 1: especially like in college, and it was exhausting. It was exhausting,
20:27
Speaker 1: and like the payout wasn't much, and.
20:32
Speaker 3: That wasn't I grew up hungry in high school in college,
20:35
Speaker 3: and I am so sad that I missed out on food.
20:37
Speaker 1: Right.
20:40
Speaker 3: I literally ate pasta and that was one time of day.
20:44
Speaker 3: And I still I think I've trained myself so badly
20:46
Speaker 3: to not eat that I don't eat.
20:48
Speaker 2: And I know you know that level as well. I've
20:51
Speaker 2: gotten better about it. I've gotten better.
20:53
Speaker 3: But if I'm busy or if I'm overwhelmed, that's the
20:56
Speaker 3: first thing to go, yeah, because that's something I can control.
21:00
Speaker 3: But we know that's so with unattainable goals that continue
21:03
Speaker 3: to motivate tempt women other very specific magazines also came
21:07
Speaker 3: into play.
21:07
Speaker 2: Magazines like Shape, Women's.
21:09
Speaker 3: Health, and again Self and other such magazines are riddled
21:13
Speaker 3: with adverts that promise the perfect body in a short
21:16
Speaker 3: amount of time. According to another research paper that was
21:19
Speaker 3: published in Turkey, the influence of magazines like Women's Health
21:23
Speaker 3: and Cosmo continue to not only perpetuate the perfect body,
21:27
Speaker 3: but also the idea that perfection is only found within
21:31
Speaker 3: westernized standards. Here's the quote from that paper. The magazine
21:36
Speaker 3: often advises women to watch their weight all the time
21:39
Speaker 3: by eating certain light mils and drinking certain healthy drinks,
21:42
Speaker 3: helping to detox the body. Nevertheless, the magazine often shows
21:47
Speaker 3: dieting as such an easy thing which women do not
21:50
Speaker 3: have to worry about by getting into stress, as Clem
21:53
Speaker 3: and Lennon, which was a researcher previously, have mentioned. However,
21:57
Speaker 3: dieting is in fact a painful thing, especially for women
22:01
Speaker 3: who have excess weight. Therefore, the magazine always puts ideal
22:05
Speaker 3: beauty standards in front of women and it expects them
22:08
Speaker 3: to reach those high standards by looking good and young. Therefore,
22:13
Speaker 3: the female readers are implicitly advised that they need to
22:16
Speaker 3: groom shop diet, do fitness, and take care of their
22:19
Speaker 3: bodies to preserve a perfect image that is related with
22:22
Speaker 3: that white ideal beauty, and that's we don't really talk
22:26
Speaker 3: about this at all in that level. We do talk
22:28
Speaker 3: a little bit about the fact that it is oppression,
22:31
Speaker 3: this type of culture is oppression, but the fact that
22:34
Speaker 3: the majority of what we see are all until recently,
22:38
Speaker 3: like Kim Kardashian and like hip hop stars have kind
22:42
Speaker 3: of changed that a little bit. I feel like Korean
22:44
Speaker 3: pop stars have now brought it back to this Western
22:48
Speaker 3: idea that you have to be skinny, skinny, skinny, as
22:50
Speaker 3: one woman was quoted saying, being raith like is ideal,
22:56
Speaker 3: and I think that's kind of the issue. And by
22:59
Speaker 3: the way, we also are not talking at all about
23:01
Speaker 3: the cosmetic industry, which, like I said, I picked and
23:05
Speaker 3: choose because we did talk about that before with influencers
23:08
Speaker 3: and such as that. But yes, the other if there
23:11
Speaker 3: was a chart, I'm sure it was like forty five
23:15
Speaker 3: percent diet culture for cosmetics and ten percent good luck fashion.
23:23
Speaker 1: I'm just kidding, yeah, fashion, because I if you want
23:28
Speaker 1: to go back and listen to some episodes we've done,
23:29
Speaker 1: but like things like shaving. That was largely due to
23:36
Speaker 1: the fabric that was popular at the time, and it
23:37
Speaker 1: was advertised magazines like if you want to wear this fabric,
23:40
Speaker 1: you have to shave, so a lot of things like
23:42
Speaker 1: that and also, oddly enough past the co host, I
23:48
Speaker 1: believe it was Kristin Caroline, it was a long time ago,
23:51
Speaker 1: talked about Barbie. One of the reasons Barbie is so thin,
23:55
Speaker 1: it's cheaper to make clothing for someone who's very thin, right,
23:59
Speaker 1: So it's all so very beneficial for the fashion.
24:03
Speaker 2: Industry right in general.
24:05
Speaker 3: And that's the parts that we also don't talk about this,
24:07
Speaker 3: but I found an article upon article about talking about
24:10
Speaker 3: the fact that being in this diet culture, being thin
24:15
Speaker 3: gives more advantages to this idea of than privilege gives
24:19
Speaker 3: more advantages to those who are thin, typically white as
24:22
Speaker 3: well as yes, the cost effective because the clothing is
24:26
Speaker 3: cheaper as well, because for some reason, anything that is
24:30
Speaker 3: beyond a size eight needs to be ten dollars extra,
24:33
Speaker 3: if not fifty.
24:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and they should be. We'll put a big
24:38
Speaker 1: asterisk on that. Because there's also been things that are like,
24:40
Speaker 1: what are you doing it's not really yeah, but anyway,
24:43
Speaker 1: that is there what they have said, Yes, yes, yes, okay,
24:48
Speaker 1: But to go back to this research article we've been quoting,
24:53
Speaker 1: they continue with this morning. However, the women who over
24:56
Speaker 1: exercise and diet unfortunately engage in unhealthy behaviors such as
25:00
Speaker 1: eating disorders as a result. In other words, the magazine
25:03
Speaker 1: expects Turkish women to transform their bodies to a lighter
25:07
Speaker 1: size and resemble the Western ideal of beauty, which not
25:10
Speaker 1: only means culturally assimilating the curvy body, but also anticipating
25:15
Speaker 1: to invite diseases such as anarexia or bolimia in the
25:18
Speaker 1: long term.
25:19
Speaker 2: Right.
25:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, there's been cultures where I'm like, yeah,
25:22
Speaker 3: these are my people. I want to be here because
25:24
Speaker 3: my body looks more like them.
25:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they like me better because of that.
25:32
Speaker 1: I have to say, I unfortunately witnessed this in other
25:35
Speaker 1: countries where people will tell me, oh, I'm not going
25:38
Speaker 1: to eat for a couple days, and I'd be like, what, like, oh, yeah,
25:41
Speaker 1: I need to lose weight, and they would just say
25:43
Speaker 1: it and I'd be.
25:43
Speaker 2: Like, oh, oh right.
25:46
Speaker 3: This whole level with again, like Europeans, no hate to
25:50
Speaker 3: any Europeans, but like they will talk about the fact
25:53
Speaker 3: that they can they can't look as big as Americans
25:56
Speaker 3: or whatever whatnot. And so what they do is not
25:58
Speaker 3: eat for a few days and that's absolutely normal. Like
26:02
Speaker 3: that's like, that's so sad, don't you miss it? Yeah.
26:08
Speaker 1: Also, like no offense, I've done it, but it is
26:11
Speaker 1: not gonna less, it's.
26:12
Speaker 3: Not gonna Yeah, you're only causing yourself trouble and headaches,
26:16
Speaker 3: literal headaches. Yes, and while we are here, let's just
26:30
Speaker 3: remind ourselves, uh that though we are coming back to
26:34
Speaker 3: the idea that dieting is good and being skinny is
26:37
Speaker 3: the only way to exist. Yes, it is a sarcasm,
26:40
Speaker 3: it's not, And that this movement in itself is anti
26:45
Speaker 3: like just anti everything in so many ways.
26:48
Speaker 2: Yes.
26:49
Speaker 1: Yes. From the National Alliance for Eating Disorders. Diet culture
26:54
Speaker 1: quote encompasses the collective beliefs and practices that promote the
26:58
Speaker 1: pursuit of weight loss as the ultimate mark of health
27:00
Speaker 1: and well being. It is a pervasive force that permeates
27:04
Speaker 1: various aspects of our lives, from media portrayals of ideal
27:08
Speaker 1: bodies to the messages we receive from friends, family, and
27:11
Speaker 1: even healthcare professionals. Diet culture often emphasizes the importance of
27:16
Speaker 1: adhering to strict eating regimens, promoting quick fixes, and advocating
27:20
Speaker 1: for this thin ideal. It's based on fallacies like one
27:24
Speaker 1: food is better than another, people who are thin are healthier,
27:27
Speaker 1: people who are thin or more attractive. Higher weight bodies
27:31
Speaker 1: are a result of poor health choices. Individuals have full
27:34
Speaker 1: control over their health and appearance.
27:37
Speaker 3: Right, And in that article it talks about health ism,
27:41
Speaker 3: which is this narrative which a lot of healthcare professionals
27:45
Speaker 3: have done, which blame everything on being overweight and ignoring
27:51
Speaker 3: the actual health and problems. And this is anti obviously.
27:56
Speaker 3: That was an interesting TikTok video too of this young
27:59
Speaker 3: young baby girl who calls herself a life coach saying
28:03
Speaker 3: that tomatoes make you fat.
28:06
Speaker 4: That was it.
28:07
Speaker 3: And then what she I think was trying to say
28:09
Speaker 3: when she was apologizing later on was everybody went after her,
28:13
Speaker 3: was that it hurts her stomach and because of the
28:16
Speaker 3: ascid and they're like, that's completely different. This is completely
28:19
Speaker 3: different from they make you fat.
28:21
Speaker 2: Okay, calm down.
28:24
Speaker 3: But yeah, so with that, I mean it's it's cultures
28:27
Speaker 3: like this that feed into that kind of narrative. And yeah,
28:32
Speaker 3: this culture literally demonizes fatness and again, this is from
28:37
Speaker 3: the National Alliance with this connection to Christianity and morality,
28:41
Speaker 3: which we didn't talk about. We did kind of talk
28:43
Speaker 3: about being the perfect housewife. That means having the perfect body.
28:46
Speaker 3: The thought is the whole keeping the body clean and
28:49
Speaker 3: holy or keeping it tight Yeah, yeah, and keeping it
28:53
Speaker 3: tight for your spouse like they they meant to You
28:56
Speaker 3: can't be getting that pot belly.
28:58
Speaker 2: I've heard that said.
29:00
Speaker 3: Literally a pastor, a preacher like his last name is Graham,
29:04
Speaker 3: apparently he's there is the founder of.
29:07
Speaker 1: Great started on this whole subject. Oh my gosh.
29:12
Speaker 2: But he was one of those that preached.
29:14
Speaker 3: This idea that our body.
29:17
Speaker 2: And being skipping a meal is for God. Of course.
29:22
Speaker 3: We didn't talk about this in the ruligious trauma God
29:24
Speaker 3: I just haunts me, I swear. But yeah, the idea
29:27
Speaker 3: of fascinating which wasn't holy idea for sure, but is
29:32
Speaker 3: used by many people to lose weight.
29:35
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and we have discussed this before. This is
29:39
Speaker 1: ingrained in our culture to a point that I think
29:41
Speaker 1: a lot of people don't realize. We've had listeners write
29:43
Speaker 1: in and be like you were saying something terrible, like
29:45
Speaker 1: people should lose weight, Like Okay, but just real quickly,
29:51
Speaker 1: Graham created Graham Crackers to like stop people from masturbating. Yes,
29:56
Speaker 1: and he told me yeah, And now he hated sugar
30:00
Speaker 1: and he basically thought you should like not experience food
30:03
Speaker 1: really if you really sin. It was a moral issue.
30:06
Speaker 1: And now grabcrackers. I'm so much sugar in them, and
30:09
Speaker 1: it gives me joy.
30:14
Speaker 2: I wonder what his family thinks of that legacy.
30:17
Speaker 1: I mean, if they're getting the money, they probably don't care.
30:19
Speaker 2: But are they ashamed of that legacy or what I mean?
30:23
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
30:24
Speaker 1: Sure, And it's also like you know, I do get
30:27
Speaker 1: joy out of it, but it is we also have
30:29
Speaker 1: a kind of whole issue with sugar in this country
30:32
Speaker 1: and what's added, so you know, but it does give
30:35
Speaker 1: me joy that he's like in his grave.
30:39
Speaker 2: Different conversation.
30:40
Speaker 3: But f y about gram crackers, because what do we
30:43
Speaker 3: do but go on tangents In the first rade, my teacher,
30:48
Speaker 3: who was one of my favorite teachers, would have us
30:50
Speaker 3: give us gram crackers and then give us frosting and
30:54
Speaker 3: let us cover it with frosting and candy, and that
30:56
Speaker 3: would be our snack.
30:59
Speaker 2: And boy did I cross both sides.
31:04
Speaker 1: I mean, you use it to build gingerbread houses and
31:06
Speaker 1: it's great.
31:07
Speaker 2: It's true, but I remember that snack like nobody's business,
31:10
Speaker 2: thanks miss.
31:12
Speaker 3: Right. And with that, this, this diet culture actually supports
31:15
Speaker 3: system of oppression. So when we say where it's anti
31:18
Speaker 3: I mean it's anti uh. It is anti black. And
31:21
Speaker 3: we've talked about it before, how this movement, how uh
31:24
Speaker 3: the fat phobia is real racist ideals, especially when it
31:27
Speaker 3: comes to oppressing people and who it oppresses and how
31:31
Speaker 3: they use it against people of color, specifically black people.
31:35
Speaker 3: It holds up the patriarchy because once again, this is
31:38
Speaker 3: for the sake of men, oftentimes the way you look,
31:41
Speaker 3: especially when we talk about looking your best for your husband,
31:43
Speaker 3: for this, for your for your next day, for prom or.
31:49
Speaker 2: Exactly.
31:51
Speaker 3: And then it reinforces once again the idea of thin privilege,
31:55
Speaker 3: which exists and people may like we talk about we
31:58
Speaker 3: have we ever.
31:59
Speaker 2: Talked about pretty privilege and then privilege?
32:03
Speaker 1: Yes again, it's a weird thing though, because I know
32:05
Speaker 1: we talked about it on the video series.
32:07
Speaker 3: I don't know, Okay, okay, maybe we need to come back,
32:10
Speaker 3: because that's like it keeps coming back around in that
32:13
Speaker 3: conversation about who gets what and why and who gets
32:16
Speaker 3: the raises and who gets hired, and these are those conversations. Yeah,
32:21
Speaker 3: and it's an industry that has made billions of dollars
32:25
Speaker 3: on things that don't work or that don't last and
32:30
Speaker 3: are not realistic, and uses your insecurities based on what
32:35
Speaker 3: society dictates to you is good or is the best.
32:40
Speaker 1: Yes, and it's It can be heartbreaking when you know
32:44
Speaker 1: someone who's doing it and they're like eating this one
32:45
Speaker 1: food and they'll tell you, like, I've heard this one
32:48
Speaker 1: will work, and you're.
32:49
Speaker 3: Right according to this magazine. I got these recipes and
32:53
Speaker 3: I'm going to stick to it. Yeah, two almonds for
32:56
Speaker 3: breakfast and I'm like that measuring stuff.
32:59
Speaker 1: Wow, oh my god, Oh my god. And the alliance
33:05
Speaker 1: ends with quote. This diet culture fosters negative body image,
33:09
Speaker 1: and it perpetuates unrealistic beauty standards and a serious weight stigma.
33:14
Speaker 1: This toxic mindset contributes to body dissatisfaction and low self esteem. Additionally,
33:20
Speaker 1: diet culture significantly increases the risk of developing eating disorders,
33:24
Speaker 1: as the obsession with food restriction and control can trigger
33:27
Speaker 1: disordered eating patterns and severe psychological distress. The harmful impact
33:32
Speaker 1: of diet culture on both short term well being and
33:35
Speaker 1: long term mental and physical health. It's a stark reminder
33:38
Speaker 1: of the urgent need to challenge and dismantle this harmful ideology.
33:42
Speaker 3: Right. So, yes, that's not necessarily about magazines, but just
33:46
Speaker 3: the reason why we think this is problematic. And even
33:50
Speaker 3: though it seems harmless to have five exercises to tone
33:53
Speaker 3: up your abs, it does contribute to this culture.
33:57
Speaker 2: So this is a reminder careful.
34:01
Speaker 3: Oh and with all that out of the way, let's
34:04
Speaker 3: talk about how magazines in general have really really influenced
34:11
Speaker 3: women in sex and the different ideas. Yes, again, if
34:15
Speaker 3: you're hanging out with kids on this one, we're gonna
34:18
Speaker 3: read some things. I think it might make you blush.
34:22
Speaker 1: Annie, I'm like pre blushing just thinking about it. So
34:26
Speaker 1: I believe you're right.
34:28
Speaker 3: So FYI, you might want to pause and take the
34:31
Speaker 3: young one out or put AirPods in however you need to.
34:35
Speaker 3: And I have to admit that, as someone who lived
34:37
Speaker 3: in the world of purity culture, I believed in it, y'all. Annie,
34:41
Speaker 3: I didn't tell you this. My mother brought over a
34:44
Speaker 3: tubfull of my childhood things. She's moving me out officially
34:48
Speaker 3: for real, for real. So you've got a house, taking this,
34:51
Speaker 3: take this right, and in it on the top I
34:55
Speaker 3: find a certificate.
34:57
Speaker 2: It says marriage certificate, and and it is my marriage
35:00
Speaker 2: certificate to Jesus. WHOA.
35:06
Speaker 3: So when I say when I say I was in
35:09
Speaker 3: that culture and it is pristinely kept, my mother made
35:12
Speaker 3: sure that it was kept all perfect on top, unlike
35:20
Speaker 3: unlike me living in sin today, which she has accepted
35:24
Speaker 3: and loves my partner. But anyway, when I say yes,
35:27
Speaker 3: I lived in that purity culture, I honestly didn't know
35:31
Speaker 3: much about sex until probably late twenties. And though of
35:37
Speaker 3: course I understood the general concept. Yes, I have seen things,
35:40
Speaker 3: I've seen movies. I would often turn to different magazines
35:45
Speaker 3: like Cosmo, like Glamour, Red Book and even seventeen to
35:51
Speaker 3: find out what men liked.
35:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, those those got me. Those articles got me. Uh.
35:58
Speaker 3: If I had a question of aout oral sex, I
36:01
Speaker 3: would often see an article and in those magazines, and
36:06
Speaker 3: I would try to take as many notes as possible. Annie, Yes,
36:10
Speaker 3: I hear did like, oh you do this and that,
36:14
Speaker 3: and that's why that seems weird. But okay whatever, And
36:17
Speaker 3: I know I'm not the only one because that sold
36:22
Speaker 3: I will say that that like we might have hidden
36:25
Speaker 3: in and we might have giggled and not said it
36:27
Speaker 3: out loud, but we sure to read it from relationship
36:31
Speaker 3: advice on how to keep a man wanting more. Magazines
36:35
Speaker 3: were a reference source for so many, so many women.
36:39
Speaker 3: In fact, magazines are often how young people would educate
36:42
Speaker 3: themselves on those embarrassing or even panicked situations. Margat Singer
36:48
Speaker 3: was actually arrested in nineteen fourteen for her book, but
36:51
Speaker 3: also for her articles in The New York Call that
36:54
Speaker 3: covered topics of sex, birth control, and STIs for so
36:58
Speaker 3: many people who desperately need that information yep.
37:02
Speaker 1: And later in nineteen sixty, after the debut of the
37:04
Speaker 1: Playboy magazine, which is a whole different conversation, the magazine
37:09
Speaker 1: featured its Advisor column, offering advice not only on sex, relationships,
37:13
Speaker 1: and life as well. And by the way, according to
37:16
Speaker 1: a Vice article and a podcast released by iHeart and
37:19
Speaker 1: Crooked Media titled Stifft, the first ever erotic magazine for
37:24
Speaker 1: women was published in nineteen seventy three by the same
37:27
Speaker 1: dude who started Penthouse, Bob Guccioni, which was titled Viva,
37:33
Speaker 1: and according to that article, they quote paired feminist writing
37:36
Speaker 1: from women like Betty Friedan and Erica Jong, and stories
37:41
Speaker 1: on anti rape groups and female circumcision, with full frontal
37:45
Speaker 1: male nudity and frank sex advice as the first erotic
37:49
Speaker 1: women's magazine, and embodied the fight to push forth the
37:51
Speaker 1: conversation about women's sexuality amid the patriarchal influence of the decade.
37:57
Speaker 3: And in that article is as including the actual creator,
38:00
Speaker 3: Bob Guccione, who we know is.
38:03
Speaker 2: Interesting.
38:08
Speaker 3: And though it was acceptable for with gay magazines at
38:12
Speaker 3: the time to talk openly about sex and relationships, it
38:16
Speaker 3: wasn't so much for ladies magazines. It took a little
38:18
Speaker 3: while later for the first one to pop up in
38:22
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty five in the Cosmo magazine the then editor
38:26
Speaker 3: in chief Helen Gurley Brown, which she has a really
38:29
Speaker 3: great quote about why wouldn't every woman want to be
38:31
Speaker 3: a feminist? Which I was like, yes, come on, now,
38:35
Speaker 3: she may have been one of our people's, kind of
38:38
Speaker 3: a white woman of our people's, but you know what
38:40
Speaker 3: I mean. But she was the then editor in chief,
38:44
Speaker 3: and she revamped the magazine from being geared toward housewives
38:47
Speaker 3: to more so single career ladies and published an article
38:53
Speaker 3: on birth control pills in her first credited issue of
38:56
Speaker 3: the magazine.
38:57
Speaker 2: So she was ready to go. She was ready to
38:59
Speaker 2: go talking.
39:00
Speaker 3: About all these things. And more magazines started following suit
39:05
Speaker 3: with articles written by the opposite sex to teach the
39:10
Speaker 3: other sex how to satisfy or how to keep their
39:12
Speaker 3: relationships attacked. So oftentimes they would feature men to tell
39:16
Speaker 3: women whatever the advice was, and then vice versa. For
39:19
Speaker 3: men's magazines, they would have women come on and give
39:22
Speaker 3: advice as well, so you know, things happen. Many famous
39:27
Speaker 3: examples are still talked about today from Dear Abby, which
39:31
Speaker 3: is more wholesome, but did have questions about relationships that
39:35
Speaker 3: she would talk about to writers like Candace Bushnell from
39:40
Speaker 3: Sex and the City fame, who wrote for The New
39:43
Speaker 3: York Observer in her advice.
39:45
Speaker 1: Here's the quote from get Me Giddy dot com, which
39:48
Speaker 1: is the sexual health related site. Thank you, Samantha for
39:52
Speaker 1: having me say this. In the late nineties and early
39:55
Speaker 1: two thousands, less historically raunchy women's magazines began adding sex
39:59
Speaker 1: to the There are usual topics of coverage in order
40:01
Speaker 1: to attract more readers. Ladies Home Journal printed its first
40:05
Speaker 1: behind closed Doors sex column in two thousand and Red
40:09
Speaker 1: Book began running it sex column Red Hot Sex that
40:13
Speaker 1: same year. Soon sex wasn't just a topic reserved for
40:16
Speaker 1: magazines known for their edginess. It was an expected part
40:19
Speaker 1: of mainstream women's publications. Men's magazines underwent a similar shift,
40:25
Speaker 1: with magazines like Esquire and GQ, both founded in the
40:28
Speaker 1: thirties and originally focused on fashion, increasingly covering sex.
40:32
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, So, I.
40:36
Speaker 3: Was just really excited that you got to say the
40:38
Speaker 3: name of that site, get Me Giddy.
40:40
Speaker 2: Dot com, which some was a really helpful site.
40:42
Speaker 3: But I was like, what, And because I can't resist
40:58
Speaker 3: a good read through of ridiculous things, here's a few
41:03
Speaker 3: of the worst sex tips Annie already blushing of the
41:07
Speaker 3: worst sex tips from women's magazines, according to Mackenzie Z. Kennedy,
41:13
Speaker 3: who blessed us with these quips seven years ago. So
41:16
Speaker 3: as a seven year old post for Filthy So, here's one.
41:21
Speaker 3: Bring your lover on your food shopping excursion. View it
41:25
Speaker 3: as sentual foreplay. You can have a lot of fun
41:27
Speaker 3: caressing and gently squeezing foods and inhaling their aromas. The
41:33
Speaker 3: conversation should be entertaining too, And I will say I
41:36
Speaker 3: guess aie, you had a kind of related thing with food,
41:39
Speaker 3: so maybe.
41:40
Speaker 1: Maybe also look go back to your episodes we did
41:45
Speaker 1: on the movie Fresh. Sometimes this doesn't work out, oh lord.
41:51
Speaker 3: Because they did have all grocery saying, didn't they cute?
41:56
Speaker 3: I forgot about that. Okay, here's another one. Nick two
41:59
Speaker 3: fists around a shaft and twist them in opposite directions
42:02
Speaker 3: as hard as you can under this advice, Kennedy wrote,
42:07
Speaker 3: this really bad sex tip has been inspiring people to
42:10
Speaker 3: write about bad sex tips because it's literally telling you
42:14
Speaker 3: to give your partner an Indian rugburn on the most
42:18
Speaker 3: sensitive part of his body. I don't think that's comfortable.
42:24
Speaker 3: The next one is firmly hold the bottom of his
42:27
Speaker 3: shaft in one hand and slowly push it towards the base.
42:31
Speaker 3: Imagine you're pushing his penis into his body. So again,
42:36
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's that effective. Here's another one.
42:41
Speaker 3: Take a tennis ball and roll it with a slight
42:43
Speaker 3: pressure between his shoulders and over his butt to help
42:47
Speaker 3: him release pent up sexual energy. Got to bring a
42:51
Speaker 3: tennis ball into it.
42:52
Speaker 1: I guess you're too.
42:55
Speaker 2: Lazy to do anything.
42:56
Speaker 1: Smack.
42:58
Speaker 3: And then the next one is very softly bite the
43:01
Speaker 3: skin of his scrotum. I feel like they could go
43:04
Speaker 3: very wrong, very very wrong. But you knew you maybe
43:07
Speaker 3: he enjoys it, and it says. And lastly, making him
43:11
Speaker 3: a snack after sex. It doesn't have to be a
43:14
Speaker 3: gourmet mill. A simple grilled cheese or milk and cookies
43:17
Speaker 3: will do.
43:18
Speaker 1: A simple grilled cheese or milk and cookies, you know.
43:25
Speaker 3: The level of like it just boom down to serve him. Thanks,
43:30
Speaker 3: and this will make it go make a sandwich woman.
43:36
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm so sorry for that. It's true, but it's
43:40
Speaker 2: essentially that a statement I feel like. So yes, of
43:43
Speaker 2: course we don't. We're not to get into all of it.
43:45
Speaker 3: And I'm sure again, this was seven years ago, so
43:47
Speaker 3: I can't imagine what else is out there. I wrote
43:50
Speaker 3: this some of these nouns. Actually, I've heard the shaft
43:53
Speaker 3: ones just so you know, which I think is quite hilarious.
43:58
Speaker 3: It's such a romance Roman novel term that is fantastic.
44:03
Speaker 3: And again, though we just with some of these ridiculous
44:07
Speaker 3: bits of advice, there is a real concern with some
44:10
Speaker 3: of the information that is being spread. Although on the
44:13
Speaker 3: positive side, having popular publications open up conversations about women
44:18
Speaker 3: learning to enjoy sex or learning to explore sexual desires
44:22
Speaker 3: is a plus and for a long time unheard of.
44:25
Speaker 3: It has helped to destigmatize women's sexuality and even taught
44:29
Speaker 3: some men about women's anatomy that they may not have understood.
44:33
Speaker 3: Hello Glitterius. But there have been problems as well. According
44:39
Speaker 3: to one article, some feel that women's magazines aren't celebrating
44:43
Speaker 3: being sexually open, but rather pushing women to have degrading
44:47
Speaker 3: sex and calling it empowering. Now, I'm gonna be transparent here.
44:52
Speaker 2: This article that I.
44:53
Speaker 3: Found written in evmagazine dot com seems as I was
44:58
Speaker 3: reading it seems to be lead very heavily into the
45:01
Speaker 3: more like coming back to femininity, and it kept saying
45:05
Speaker 3: that idea, which seems to be code for like a
45:08
Speaker 3: conservative media, conservative think tank.
45:11
Speaker 2: I do think there's a point here.
45:13
Speaker 3: Young girls are given an embellished idea that they're being
45:16
Speaker 3: told that everyone and every woman enjoy wild sex and
45:21
Speaker 3: are scared to set boundaries for themselves. So I definitely
45:24
Speaker 3: think that's a conversation where we don't have enough of that.
45:26
Speaker 3: We've come so far sometimes to being sexually liberated, which
45:30
Speaker 3: is amazing to forgetting the part about consent, which we
45:34
Speaker 3: have talked about previously in Boundaries. That was one of
45:38
Speaker 3: our book clubs too. Of our book clubs actually, wasn't
45:41
Speaker 3: it Come as You Are? And the Ace book as well,
45:45
Speaker 3: because we have not really pounded that into the head
45:48
Speaker 3: of what is consent? When can you stop? And all
45:50
Speaker 3: those conversations and being kind of so open to the
45:54
Speaker 3: idea that we're not communicating to the younger generations of
45:58
Speaker 3: what that means. So I do think there is some
46:01
Speaker 3: thought to that, as well as the fact that women
46:03
Speaker 3: are told this is what's happening, and this we were
46:06
Speaker 3: all doing this. Like I've heard so many stories of
46:09
Speaker 3: men asking for threesomes and they don't want necessarily want it,
46:12
Speaker 3: but being told this is what people do, so they
46:14
Speaker 3: just go with it, and being uncomfortable with it. So
46:16
Speaker 3: all of those things, I think it definitely has that point.
46:18
Speaker 3: So many of the magazines lean into the pleasing a
46:21
Speaker 3: man idea, so confusing liberation to non stop sexcapades again,
46:27
Speaker 3: and the fact that you have no choice or you
46:30
Speaker 3: have no power to say no to any of these
46:33
Speaker 3: things or to stop, like even if you were enjoying it,
46:37
Speaker 3: to a certain point and being able to have that communication.
46:40
Speaker 3: So I think that is a big conversation of that.
46:43
Speaker 3: But the article I'm referring to here also had an
46:47
Speaker 3: article titled porn turned me bisexual and ruined my relationship.
46:51
Speaker 2: So I feel like that's.
46:53
Speaker 3: Very yeah waity and very obvious as well as how
46:58
Speaker 3: to catch a husband. Oh you know, watch out what
47:02
Speaker 3: you read. They had some good points. I will not
47:06
Speaker 3: discredit that there. I would not take everything they said
47:10
Speaker 3: as right in fact, so just on the notes.
47:15
Speaker 1: Yes, for sure. Yeah. So coming back to the original point,
47:20
Speaker 1: there is misinformation that can happen with sex advice given
47:23
Speaker 1: from a magazine article. As one writer states in Dame magazine,
47:27
Speaker 1: a walk through social media can illustrate just how deep
47:30
Speaker 1: the notion that women aren't big on sex or orgasm runs.
47:33
Speaker 1: While women fake orgasms, says a common meme, men fake
47:38
Speaker 1: entire relationships. Other prevalent humor suggests that the best way
47:42
Speaker 1: to turn a woman on is through house cleaning, unless
47:45
Speaker 1: a guy our gal does so, naked mopping induced arousal
47:48
Speaker 1: is pretty unlikely. Stress relief is important, of course, and
47:53
Speaker 1: if helping the chores or other tasks alleviates it, terrific,
47:56
Speaker 1: but I've noticed significantly more stress inducing this in the
47:59
Speaker 1: contact to female sexuality then girlfriends complaining about dirty dishes.
48:04
Speaker 1: And yes, this is talking about the whole women having
48:07
Speaker 1: orgasms thing, which we have discussed before at a links
48:12
Speaker 1: And though this article was written in twenty fifteen, we
48:15
Speaker 1: are still talking about that and finding that misinformation today.
48:19
Speaker 3: I mean men are getting on podcasts saying women don't
48:21
Speaker 3: have orgasms so or can't have orgasms, that's not biological.
48:26
Speaker 2: So you know, we're still having that conversation. Yes, and yeah, as.
48:30
Speaker 3: We mentioned before, there's both good and bad when it
48:33
Speaker 3: comes to the sex relationship bits within magazines, and research
48:37
Speaker 3: seems to back that up. According to Kristen Mark, who
48:40
Speaker 3: is a therapist and professor, after doing a short survey
48:42
Speaker 3: and rethrough of a popular women's magazine, specifically Cosmopolitan, she
48:47
Speaker 3: concludes these findings suggest that women's magazines such as Cosmo
48:51
Speaker 3: has potentially mixed effects. The impact is potentially problematic when
48:55
Speaker 3: women after brief exposure are less likely than those exposed
48:59
Speaker 3: to the control to believe premarital sex intercourse is risky,
49:03
Speaker 3: though it doesn't have to be risky use condoms, practice negotiation,
49:06
Speaker 3: and communicate with your partner and make sure it's consensual.
49:10
Speaker 3: But the short term impact of COSMO can also be
49:12
Speaker 3: empowering for women when after brief exposure, they're more likely
49:16
Speaker 3: than those exposed to the control to believe that women
49:18
Speaker 3: should be assertive in prioritizing their sexual desires for their
49:21
Speaker 3: own sake, but not for male partners.
49:24
Speaker 1: Yes, and I think it's also important that again, we
49:27
Speaker 1: have no like, we don't have good sexual education in
49:29
Speaker 1: this country, and you know, places like Florida are banning
49:34
Speaker 1: the Dictionary because it has the definition of sex in it.
49:37
Speaker 1: So if you have something like this, it can be
49:39
Speaker 1: it can be really like you never hear about it,
49:42
Speaker 1: and that's kind of it's unfortunate because it can be problematic,
49:47
Speaker 1: but it is also okay, maybe I can like this thing,
49:52
Speaker 1: So yeah, I agree, it's sort of a there's pluses
49:55
Speaker 1: and negatives, and of course if you can't tell yes,
49:59
Speaker 1: this is very heteronormative. The lack of information and advice
50:03
Speaker 1: offered to the queer community was very blatant. Going back
50:07
Speaker 1: to that get megiddy dot com article, they wrote in
50:11
Speaker 1: the years following the publication made a point to include
50:14
Speaker 1: more empowering and inclusive sex articles with LGBTQ perspectives and
50:18
Speaker 1: advice geared toward feminist. Glamour similarly did away with content
50:22
Speaker 1: focused on what guys think, including a columnist by the
50:26
Speaker 1: name of Jake, to emphasize sex advice focused on women's empowerment,
50:30
Speaker 1: and they continue still. The LGBTQ community has been largely
50:35
Speaker 1: underrepresented in sex advice columns, though some writers have recently
50:39
Speaker 1: stepped up to fix that. In twenty seventeen, John Paul
50:42
Speaker 1: JP Brammer started the sex and love advice column O
50:45
Speaker 1: La Poppy in Out magazine to provide guidance to queer
50:48
Speaker 1: people who don't have the same access to information about
50:51
Speaker 1: their sexuality online as straight CIS people. Cecy Blanchard similarly
50:56
Speaker 1: began her column MTF and DTF to talk about the
50:59
Speaker 1: little discussed experiences of dating and sex from a trans
51:02
Speaker 1: woman's perspective.
51:04
Speaker 3: Right In research paper titles Narrative Analysis of Sexual Etiquette
51:08
Speaker 3: and teen Magazines, the authorites other than brief mentions of
51:12
Speaker 3: masturbation in seventeen, Lesbian Dreams in Mademoiselle, Bisexual Men who
51:18
Speaker 3: Put their field partners at Risk and Glamour, and one
51:20
Speaker 3: story in Mademoiselle about a woman trying to save a
51:23
Speaker 3: gay man from being gay. We found no representations of
51:27
Speaker 3: homosexuality or masturbation that indicate these could be appropriate expressions
51:31
Speaker 3: of sexuality. While there's also nothing which condemn these sexual expressions,
51:36
Speaker 3: their absence could be seen as very limiting or isolating
51:39
Speaker 3: by young women with these interests. Again note this was
51:43
Speaker 3: actually written in nineteen ninety eight, So yeah, when I
51:45
Speaker 3: say some of these are really dated, they are. But
51:49
Speaker 3: the lack of information is something that should be recognized
51:52
Speaker 3: and is oftentimes not seen in larger publications. Like we
51:55
Speaker 3: just talked about the getmigiddy dot com was like a
51:58
Speaker 3: twenty twenty article. It's not been long and it's still
52:01
Speaker 3: very unrepresented, and the things that we do see are
52:03
Speaker 3: specific to queer culture instead of being in the popular publications.
52:08
Speaker 3: And that article is obviously specific to teen magazines as
52:12
Speaker 3: it was titled. Like I said, I have read my
52:14
Speaker 3: fair share of sex and relationship advice from different teen magazines,
52:19
Speaker 3: which we will delve into in the next episode. And honestly, again,
52:25
Speaker 3: all this information is a bit overwhelming, with a little
52:27
Speaker 3: with very little to offer in like all the context,
52:31
Speaker 3: the way we have to search for things is within itself.
52:34
Speaker 3: A lot of times they call themselves outs. I will
52:35
Speaker 3: give them that, like Lamber will call themselves out. Cosmo
52:39
Speaker 3: has called themselves out. You know, they've really changed their
52:42
Speaker 3: tone in the last five years, which again it's gonna
52:45
Speaker 3: be about in the next episode, but for today, we're
52:49
Speaker 3: going to pause here. And yeah, I have done exactly
52:53
Speaker 3: what I didn't want to do, make a three part thing.
52:56
Speaker 3: Apologies y'all, but hey, this is good stuff.
53:00
Speaker 1: I like how you say three part shut it.
53:05
Speaker 2: I'mdetermined.
53:06
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, I'll finally I'm going to finally reveal
53:09
Speaker 1: the contents of my Ryan Gossling Shrik, and I'm very excited.
53:13
Speaker 2: Is sitting on this outline taunting me?
53:15
Speaker 1: Oh it's chaunting me too, daunting all of us. Well,
53:21
Speaker 1: if you have any thoughts about this, I mean, we
53:24
Speaker 1: would love to hear them. I think I might go
53:27
Speaker 1: flip through some of my I still have some magazines. Oh,
53:30
Speaker 1: just see what's in there.
53:31
Speaker 3: I have to find some quizzes from those old school magazines,
53:34
Speaker 3: because there's some I remember taking those, like what kind
53:36
Speaker 3: of man are you supposed to be?
53:38
Speaker 2: With all those? I gotta find one of those.
53:40
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I think the old Horo scipts could be fun.
53:43
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
53:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, those like like fashion like flow chart things.
53:48
Speaker 2: Yes, color palettes.
53:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll have to come back maybe for a Monday mini.
53:55
Speaker 2: Not not not part beautiful.
53:58
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I will help you with this well. Listeners,
54:03
Speaker 1: If you have any thoughts about any of that, or like, yes,
54:05
Speaker 1: any old magazines you want to share or magazine memories
54:09
Speaker 1: you want to share, please let us know. You can
54:11
Speaker 1: email us at Stuff Media, Momstuff at iHeartMedia dot com.
54:14
Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast,
54:16
Speaker 1: or on Instagram and TikTok at Stuff I've Never told you.
54:18
Speaker 1: We have a tea public store, and we have a
54:20
Speaker 1: book we can get wherever you get your books. Thanks
54:22
Speaker 1: as always to our super producer Christina or Excited to
54:25
Speaker 1: producer My and our contributor Joey.
54:26
Speaker 2: Thank you.
54:27
Speaker 1: Thanks to you for listening. Stuff Never told you the
54:29
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,
54:31
Speaker 1: you can check out their Heart Radio, Apple podcast, or
54:33
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows