Latest / Banish the Lies: Outsmart Your Inner Critic / 08: The Lie “I’m Not Athletic” with Sue Skelly: Walking 500 Miles Back to Yourself

Transcript

08: The Lie “I’m Not Athletic” with Sue Skelly: Walking 500 Miles Back to Yourself · Banish the Lies: Outsmart Your Inner Critic

• 0:01
  Speaker: Today I am talking with someone who has genuinely inspired me.
• 0:05
  Speaker: Her name is Sue Skelly, and she's the founder of Women Who Walk the World where she leads women on long distance pilgrimages like the Camino de Santiago.
• 0:14
  Speaker: What really hooked me about her story is that she didn't grow up seeing herself as athletic at all.
• 0:21
  Speaker: She was the kid picked last in gym class, the one who dreaded pe, and yet she ended up walking 500 miles across Spain and now guides other women to do the same.
• 0:33
  Speaker: In this conversation, she talks honestly about the beliefs she had to let go of the identity she rebuilt along the way.
• 0:41
  Speaker: And what happens when you stop letting old stories decide what you're capable of?
• 0:46
  Speaker: Welcome to Banish the Lies, the podcast where we outsmart that sneaky inner critic and get closer to the truth that sets us free.
• 0:58
  Speaker: I'm Tania Cervoni, your host and fellow work in Progress here to share real stories and small shifts that help you reclaim what fear and doubt once stole.
• 1:09
  Speaker: Let's jump in.
• 1:18
  Tania: Sue Kelly, I am so excited to have you here today.
• 1:23
  Tania: Thank you so much.
• 1:24
  Sue: Thank you for having me.
• 1:25
  Tania: Yes, absolutely.
• 1:26
  Tania: I know there's gonna be so much goodness in this conversation, so I just want to jump into things.
• 1:32
  Tania: However, to start, I'm gonna ask you to define something.
• 1:36
  Tania: 'cause I know we're gonna be talking about the Camino or other walks that you do.
• 1:40
  Tania: So for those people who are listening who have no idea, who've never heard of the Camino, I wondered if we could start there.
• 1:46
  Tania: Just explain what is that all about?
• 1:48
  Tania: What is the Camino?
• 1:51
  Sue: Okay, so the Camino de Santiago A group of pilgrim routes that all lead to Santiago de Compostela, Spain.
• 1:59
  Sue: And there are several.
• 2:03
  Sue: So they you, have you ever heard the expression All lead roads lead to Rome?
• 2:07
  Sue: Well, all roads lead to Santiago.
• 2:10
  Tania: you know, I learned something new already, and we're only 30 seconds into this conversation.
• 2:13
  Tania: I had this impression that there was one road, it was the Camino, but there's multiple.
• 2:19
  Sue: there's multiple, so the one that is most common when you ask an American is St.
• 2:27
  Sue: John p deport France to Santiago, Spain, which is 500 miles.
• 2:32
  Tania: Long, that's a long walk.
• 2:33
  Tania: Okay
• 2:33
  Sue: You literally look at a map, and it’s so fun. I’ll look at a map and think, I walked that. There’s the Camino Portugués, which starts in Lisbon or Porto and goes north through Portugal to Santiago. There’s the Camino Francés, which traditionally starts in France and crosses into Spain on the way to Santiago. There’s the Camino del Norte, which comes down the northern coast of Spain through places like San Sebastián. And there’s the Vía de la Plata, which starts in southern Spain, in Seville, and heads north toward Santiago.
• 4:12
  Tania: Well, for the people listening, if you're wondering why we're talking about a Camino, right at the beginning of this conversation and what that has to do with anything.
• 4:19
  Tania: One of the reasons I wanted, Sue Skelly on this podcast was because she shared with me, you shared with me you always felt that you weren't athletic.
• 4:30
  Tania: You told me a story of how you were picked last in the gym class.
• 4:33
  Tania: And so this con, you know this podcast is all about overcoming limiting beliefs and I was like, okay, how does a woman who is not athletic, who was picked last and gym class had these traumatizing experiences and now she's walking 500 miles.
• 4:48
  Tania: And leading other women to do the same.
• 4:50
  Tania: So I thought that this was a fabulous story to talk about the power of over becoming those beliefs that could have limited you, but clearly did not.
• 5:00
  Tania: So I wanna go back first before we go forward, and if you could take me to that time, I would like to hear what that experience was like.
• 5:08
  Tania: What was gym class like for Sue?
• 5:10
  Tania: A little Sue.
• 5:11
  Tania: For those you can't see the video...
• 5:14
  Sue: Oh my
• 5:14
  Tania: t.
• 5:15
  Tania: She right away put her head into her hands with a big sigh.
• 5:19
  Tania: So
• 5:20
  Sue: Oh my God.
• 5:21
  Tania: story there.
• 5:24
  Sue: Oh, geez.
• 5:25
  Sue: Like, you know when you wake up in the morning and you're like, oh, I gotta do that thing today as like an 8-year-old.
• 5:35
  Sue: I had that thing, I had that feeling.
• 5:37
  Sue: I remember like.
• 5:38
  Sue: Dreading with every fiber.
• 5:41
  Sue: The day we had PE class, but we didn't call it pe.
• 5:43
  Sue: We called it gym
• 5:44
  Tania: Yeah, I called it gym class.
• 5:45
  Tania: I grew up in Canada, but it was the same word.
• 5:48
  Sue: I think we might have even played dodgeball,
• 5:50
  Tania: Oh, we played dodge ball too.
• 5:52
  Sue: oh my gosh.
• 5:53
  Sue: That's like abuse, you know?
• 5:55
  Sue: But, so in our elementary school, and I'm so sorry 'cause if I don't think she knows who she is, but there's a one person that.
• 6:05
  Sue: Really was not very nice to me as a child, but we in high school, we got to be friends and we stay in touch on Facebook and she's actually a very lovely woman now, but like as a kid who felt very uncoordinated and unathletic, so we would have gym class and we would go down this long haul and our gym was in the school and the teacher would put.
• 6:27
  Sue: All the kids in the middle of the gym.
• 6:30
  Sue: And then on one side of the gym was one of the super jock, the super jock captains, you know, I'm not gonna mention any names.
• 6:38
  Sue: And then on the other side of the gym was the opposing captain.
• 6:41
  Sue: And it was always the same two captains, like always like it was these two people that were like the super jocks.
• 6:46
  Sue: And then they would draw, call memes.
• 6:50
  Sue: It's like, can you imagine standing there as a little kid?
• 6:54
  Sue: Like, I wonder if they still do that.
• 6:55
  Sue: And they'd be like, Amy Smith.
• 6:58
  Sue: I take Amy.
• 6:58
  Sue: Okay, I take Bill White.
• 7:01
  Sue: Okay.
• 7:02
  Sue: I take Tracy White.
• 7:03
  Sue: And then there would always be like three of us left.
• 7:08
  Sue: And then we'd, I'd always be like, well, don't let me be the last one.
• 7:11
  Sue: Don't let me be the last one.
• 7:12
  Sue: And I remember one day like they were done and I was the last one standing and everybody had an even number.
• 7:19
  Sue: So they had to argue over who had to take me.
• 7:22
  Sue: Laugh now because I, I just laugh because I don't think it, who am I allowed to cuss?
• 7:31
  Tania: Yeah.
• 7:32
  Sue: Who gives a flying f***?
• 7:33
  Sue: Seriously?
• 7:34
  Sue: Like if you're eight years old and you're picked last, it's okay.
• 7:38
  Sue: You're gonna, you're gonna actually be okay in life if you're the last one picked.
• 7:43
  Tania: Right.
• 7:44
  Tania: But the 8-year-old doesn't have that perspective.
• 7:49
  Tania: To be able to offer to the 8-year-old.
• 7:51
  Tania: This is everything because through elementary school and high school, or here in the US they have middle school, um, that need to belong and.
• 8:02
  Tania: To have that external validation is like crucial.
• 8:07
  Tania: I mean, the fact that you can remember this, it's almost like you're describing in technicolor, like you're remembering where people stand and everything like this left a huge impression on you.
• 8:15
  Tania: It's not a little thing.
• 8:16
  Tania: So.
• 8:16
  Tania: I would love to understand, did this experience spill over into other areas of your life, or how did this, affect you as an 8-year-old?
• 8:28
  Sue: I, you know, it's funny 'cause I think it al, I always felt like I didn't fit in with other people 'cause like.
• 8:37
  Sue: We would play kickball in the cul-de-sac.
• 8:40
  Sue: And I sucked at it, but they always let me play with him.
• 8:43
  Sue: Or like, In eighth grade, okay, this is kind of funny.
• 8:47
  Sue: In seventh grade we had gym class and Mr.
• 8:50
  Sue: Hansen made us do the hurdles.
• 8:53
  Sue: I was like, I can't do a hurdle.
• 8:56
  Sue: I can't do a hurdle.
• 8:56
  Sue: He's like, you have to try or I'm gonna write you a detention.
• 9:00
  Sue: So I tried and I fell and I still have the sins in my knee.
• 9:03
  Sue: If you look closely, like if I bend my knee and look, you can see there's like scars there from me falling and getting sins in my knee.
• 9:10
  Sue: I was a bloody mess, but I didn't get detention.
• 9:13
  Sue: So then the next winter we had, oh my god, remember the, the rope that you had to climb up?
• 9:21
  Tania: The traumatizing rope that hang hung on the yeah, 20 foot ceiling or whatever it was.
• 9:26
  Sue: Oh my God.
• 9:26
  Sue: And the mat is like six inches.
• 9:28
  Sue: I'm surprised no one ever died doing that.
• 9:30
  Sue: And I, he was making me do it.
• 9:33
  Sue: And he goes, I go, I can't do that.
• 9:34
  Sue: And he's like, you do that or you're gonna get a detention.
• 9:36
  Sue: I go, write me a detention, then.
• 9:37
  Sue: I'm not doing it.
• 9:38
  Sue: So I didn't do it.
• 9:40
  Sue: And um, but then by high school, like in PE class, I think I was fun and I had friends.
• 9:48
  Sue: So like in PE class we were supposed to be playing tennis, which I was actually pretty good at tennis.
• 9:54
  Sue: But we would sneak off the tennis court and walk to Dairy Queen for blizzards and ice cream cones.
• 10:00
  Tania: The best part of any gym class.
• 10:02
  Tania: Of course.
• 10:03
  Sue: It's part of high school.
• 10:04
  Sue: Yeah.
• 10:04
  Sue: So like I think it in the long run, it like by the time you get to high school.
• 10:08
  Sue: I think all the level, like the playing fields are leveled and people don't really give a shit if you're coordinated or not.
• 10:15
  Sue: Like I wasn't trying out to be a cheerleader and I didn't really care.
• 10:18
  Sue: My friends were cheerleaders and they're always like, are you gonna try out?
• 10:22
  Sue: I'm like, no, I can't even do a cartwheel.
• 10:24
  Sue: Are you kidding?
• 10:24
  Sue: But it's okay.
• 10:27
  Sue: Like it.
• 10:28
  Sue: But the interesting thing is, the day I walked into Santiago all these years later, I.
• 10:35
  Sue: One of the first people to comment on my Facebook post was one of the super jocks in high school, in junior, I mean in elementary.
• 10:46
  Sue: And she said, oh my God, that's amazing.
• 10:50
  Sue: You're, you're Motivat.
• 10:51
  Sue: She wrote me a message saying something like, you're motivating me to get off my butt and start walking my dog or something, I don't know.
• 10:58
  Sue: And so.
• 11:00
  Sue: so vindicated when I walked into Santiago.
• 11:04
  Sue: 'cause here's the girl who was the klutz at age.
• 11:07
  Sue: All of a sudden, age 53.
• 11:08
  Sue: I'm doing active things that most 50 and 60 year olds aren't doing.
• 11:13
  Tania: I can't remember if it was in the article.
• 11:15
  Tania: That was written about you or in the interview, I listened to another interview that you were, uh, that you had done and you had said, I think it was in 1987, you promised yourself that you would walk 500 miles someday.
• 11:29
  Tania: And so I'm curious how the girl who couldn't do, you know, who, who, who had her knee damage in gym class and was terrified of dodge ball, um.
• 11:40
  Tania: How did you make that commitment?
• 11:43
  Tania: And then how did you keep it alive?
• 11:45
  Tania: Because I think you made the promise, but then you had like four kids and then it happened later in life.
• 11:51
  Tania: So can you take us through that a little bit?
• 11:55
  Sue: So yeah, in 1987, I studied in Madrid for my final semester of university.
• 12:02
  Sue: And our teacher would take us on field trips every weekend.
• 12:06
  Sue: So one of the coolest field trips we had was to go to Gia, Spain, which is where Santiago is.
• 12:12
  Sue: And I remember going to the cathedral and I just remember like, you can't do this anymore.
• 12:20
  Sue: But, there, there's somewhere in the cathedral, and I don't remember exactly where it was, but I, I have the image of a hand.
• 12:28
  Sue: I put my hand, and in the cement pillar, there's this indentation of a hand from, you know, whatever, like 15 centuries of people putting their hand.
• 12:42
  Sue: And it like wore it down and you can, does that make sense?
• 12:45
  Sue: Like people touched it and now there's an indentation.
• 12:48
  Sue: Now you're not allowed to touch it because it, they realized, oh my gosh, so many people were touching it.
• 12:52
  Sue: You could literally see the hand mark.
• 12:54
  Sue: And I remember asking my teacher like, why is the hand, like, why are there so many, why is it worn down here?
• 13:01
  Sue: And she goes, oh, this is a pilgrimage.
• 13:02
  Sue: And people come and put their hand in this when they get here.
• 13:04
  Sue: And I was like, oh, what do you mean it's a pilgrimage?
• 13:07
  Sue: And she, she's.
• 13:09
  Sue: Explained it and I remember at that moment thinking I'm gonna come back and walk it just 'cause I thought it was fun.
• 13:15
  Sue: Like it looked like a fun thing to do.
• 13:17
  Sue: You know, I think my travel like wonderlust superseded in any fear of the physical challenge.
• 13:26
  Sue: 'cause travel is like the most important thing to me besides my family and my, besides my kids.
• 13:31
  Sue: I love to travel.
• 13:32
  Sue: I think travel is life.
• 13:35
  Sue: It's like soul expanding, life giving.
• 13:38
  Sue: It gives me energy to explore new places.
• 13:41
  Sue: So the idea of walking across the country, I don't even think I thought of it as an athletic endeavor.
• 13:47
  Tania: Wow.
• 13:48
  Sue: I guess that's pretty naive
• 13:50
  Tania: well, you tell me how many miles into it did you realize that this Wonderlust has brought you into what is maybe your greatest athletic feat?
• 14:01
  Sue: Um, well, I don't really look at it as an athletic
• 14:04
  Tania: Mm-hmm.
• 14:05
  Sue: because I feel like anybody can walk.
• 14:08
  Tania: Okay.
• 14:08
  Sue: Now, if you asked me to do cartwheels across Spain, I wouldn't be able to.
• 14:11
  Sue: Or if you asked me to run a five minute mile across Spain, I couldn't.
• 14:15
  Sue: But I think anybody can put one foot in front of the other and walk.
• 14:18
  Sue: Anybody can do it.
• 14:21
  Sue: That's what's so wonderful about it.
• 14:22
  Sue: You just have to you, it's a mindset thing.
• 14:27
  Sue: Like when your mind starts telling you that your feet hurt, you just have to say, I can keep going.
• 14:33
  Sue: Does that make sense?
• 14:35
  Sue: It's mind over matter, but I, I will tell you, like there, there's, there's this expression.
• 14:42
  Sue: They say that there's three parts.
• 14:44
  Sue: I'm talking about the Camino Franes, not the other Caminos.
• 14:47
  Sue: There's this, it's the.
• 14:48
  Sue: Quote unquote, the traditional.
• 14:51
  Sue: When people think of the Camino, they think of that one route.
• 14:55
  Sue: I'll be honest, that's usually the first one people do, and they say it's in three parts.
• 15:00
  Sue: And the first one, third of it is the challenge to your body.
• 15:05
  Sue: The second one, third of it is the challenge to your mind.
• 15:08
  Sue: And the third one, third of it is the challenge, like it's the physical, the mental, and then the third is the spiritual challenge, because the third of it, the first third.
• 15:18
  Sue: I think it takes like, well for me it was like two days in, first day, oh my God, what have I gotten myself into?
• 15:29
  Sue: And then you, like, by the time you get to Burgos, which is like the, the last of the first third, you're kind of like, why am I doing this?
• 15:37
  Sue: I'm just gonna quit and fly home.
• 15:40
  Tania: Hmm.
• 15:40
  Sue: then you keep walking and the center part is the mess, which is like the famous Messa, like, you know that expression.
• 15:46
  Sue: The rains in Spain fall mainly on the plane.
• 15:49
  Sue: Have you
• 15:50
  Tania: Yeah, it's from that.
• 15:51
  Sue: That's the ed.
• 15:51
  Sue: Yeah, that's the ed.
• 15:53
  Sue: And it's, speaking, it's a very boring plane with not, it's the beauty's there, but it's very subtle and it's boring.
• 16:03
  Sue: You walk and it and it's, it's such a mental challenge because you're walking and there's like not a lot to look at.
• 16:09
  Sue: You have to look for the beauty.
• 16:11
  Sue: It's hard because you just, the whole time you just wanna go, I just wanna go home.
• 16:16
  Sue: I just wanna be done.
• 16:17
  Sue: So many people quit when they get to Burgos and fly home or they just say, I'm done.
• 16:21
  Sue: And then the, the last third is the spiritual part where it's like you've made, your body's gotten used to it, your mind isn't bored anymore, and then you get to a place deep down where the Camino starts working on your heart.
• 16:35
  Sue: And that's when you go through like some serious transformation and you start getting downloads.
• 16:39
  Sue: And that's when the serious transformation happens, is that last part.
• 16:46
  Sue: They say that's,
• 16:47
  Tania: to unpack there that I'm curious about.
• 16:50
  Tania: So the beginning part, you were saying already, just in the first day, you were like, what did I get myself into?
• 16:55
  Tania: Was that the physical challenge of it?
• 16:58
  Tania: Like, I got sore feet.
• 16:59
  Tania: I don't normally walk this many hours a day.
• 17:02
  Tania: Like what was the challenge of the first third?
• 17:04
  Sue: well, I remember the very first day.
• 17:06
  Sue: See, you have to understand like I decided to go.
• 17:09
  Sue: At Christmas time and I, I made up my mind to do it, um, in 2004.
• 17:17
  Sue: And I said, as soon as my youngest starts college, I'm gonna go.
• 17:20
  Sue: 'cause I didn't wanna leave kids home alone for a month.
• 17:22
  Sue: So when my youngest Jack was a freshman in college, I had another tap on the shoulder from God.
• 17:32
  Sue: I was at a Christmas party and my friend Sue said, oh, I want you to meet my friend Debbie.
• 17:38
  Sue: Um, Debbie Sue used to live in Spain.
• 17:41
  Sue: Sue Debbie just got back from Spain.
• 17:44
  Sue: And I go, oh, did you do the Camino?
• 17:46
  Sue: She's like, how did you know?
• 17:47
  Sue: I go, oh, I just know about it.
• 17:48
  Sue: And we talked the whole party and this was a Christmas party.
• 17:51
  Sue: And so I decided that night I would go.
• 17:55
  Sue: That, that following summer, like six months later.
• 17:59
  Sue: But my oldest daughter was getting married and I thought, I can't go before her wedding.
• 18:05
  Sue: So as soon as her wedding's over, I'm getting on a plane and I'm going to Spain.
• 18:09
  Sue: Well, that year happened to be my 30th wedding anniversary, and my husband and I met in Madrid and we had gone to Santiago as a field trip together.
• 18:18
  Sue: And he's like, well, I wanna go with you.
• 18:20
  Sue: And I was like, most people don't do it as a couple, but okay.
• 18:24
  Sue: So we went, and that's a whole other story.
• 18:28
  Sue: He only lasted like the first two weeks 'cause he was gonna fly home.
• 18:32
  Sue: And I was gonna stay and walk by myself.
• 18:34
  Sue: And, um, the very first day leaving St.
• 18:37
  Sue: John p deport, I thought I had trained, I mean, we tr we hiked every weekend.
• 18:43
  Sue: We even hiked with our backpacks.
• 18:45
  Sue: I was carrying, relatively speaking a very light backpack.
• 18:49
  Sue: I'm kind of a minimalist and I'm a kind of a snobby minimalist at that like.
• 18:54
  Sue: I'm kind of judgmental when I see people carrying, I call 'em turtles carrying these huge packs.
• 18:58
  Sue: 'cause I had 11 pounds, so I had like two pairs of shorts, a pair of leggings.
• 19:04
  Sue: One dress, a rain layer.
• 19:07
  Sue: I mean that, I was so minimalistic, so my pack was pretty small, so I thought I was ready and that first day we're walking.
• 19:15
  Sue: It's like a solid, just a gentle you can u that's a, you can use gentle as relative as you want.
• 19:22
  Sue: I'm being sarcastic.
• 19:24
  Sue: It was just a nonstop hill from St.
• 19:26
  Sue: John up to the first place where we were sleeping this place called Orone.
• 19:30
  Sue: And this.
• 19:33
  Sue: Man, who I think was probably like between 75 and 80 French man didn't have poles.
• 19:41
  Sue: He has this little tiny backpack.
• 19:44
  Sue: They were using baggage transfer.
• 19:46
  Sue: He has walks with his hands like.
• 19:49
  Sue: Behind his back, like clasped behind his back.
• 19:53
  Sue: You know, he's just sauntering up this hill, just sauntering up the hill.
• 19:58
  Sue: He wasn't out of breath, he wasn't sweating.
• 20:01
  Sue: He just came outta nowhere and walked very slowly and just passed me
• 20:06
  Tania: And that's incredible because this is why I'm asking, you said it's not really an athletic endeavor, but it is, and
• 20:12
  Sue: It is.
• 20:13
  Tania: what you had to tell yourself, right?
• 20:15
  Tania: Because this links in so much with.
• 20:17
  Tania: When we are facing something new, we, or we think we're ready and then we go to do the thing, whatever the thing is, then we get those like little lies, those little thoughts like, who did I think I like, what am I doing?
• 20:28
  Tania: I don't belong, whatever that is.
• 20:30
  Tania: Right.
• 20:30
  Tania: And you have this background already of ah, Sue, the non-athletic girl.
• 20:33
  Tania: Here I am climbing this mountain or this hill, whatever.
• 20:36
  Tania: So I'm curious what allowed you to keep going where your husband, like, I'm outta here and, and so many people
• 20:42
  Sue: Well imagine.
• 20:44
  Sue: Imagine being 53 and a, a man who's like old enough to be your father passes you, and I'm sweating and I'm
• 20:53
  Tania: That puts things into perspective, right?
• 20:57
  Sue: And I'm like, out of breath.
• 20:58
  Sue: And he stops at the top and turns around.
• 21:01
  Sue: I'll never forget this.
• 21:02
  Sue: And he was like, not even outta breath.
• 21:05
  Sue: And he goes, are you okay?
• 21:07
  Sue: And I'm like, not really.
• 21:09
  Sue: He goes, come here.
• 21:11
  Sue: And I, and like he walked with me and he was telling me the importance of pacing slowly.
• 21:18
  Tania: Hmm.
• 21:18
  Sue: He walked with me up until we got to like where it evened off, which I felt like it was never gonna happen.
• 21:24
  Sue: And then they ended up sleeping in the same place.
• 21:27
  Sue: And I got to know his daughter, who was probably my age, and she's yeah, my dad's amazing.
• 21:33
  Sue: I remember getting to be friends with the French daughter and but it was kind of a, excuse my language, a mind fuck to have, have an older man.
• 21:41
  Sue: Like that was the first time in my life I had seen someone that age be so fit, like.
• 21:47
  Sue: Now I see people all the time like that, but I don't know where you live.
• 21:52
  Sue: You don't Where I grew up in Ohio, you don't see people 75 or 80 that are super fit.
• 21:58
  Sue: So it was like, wait, what?
• 22:00
  Sue: This guy's like old and he can do it better than I can.
• 22:03
  Sue: It really kind of affected me, you know?
• 22:06
  Tania: So much is mindset and lifestyle.
• 22:08
  Tania: I remember the first time, well actually the only time I went to Italy and I was in, if you've ever been in Quire people live up on the mountainside and you see these elderly people and they're not taking some kind of chairlift, like they're making their way up there.
• 22:22
  Tania: And it's amazing.
• 22:24
  Tania: I mean, my great aunt She was in her nineties and.
• 22:27
  Tania: She still made her own olive oil and ran a farm.
• 22:31
  Tania: It's it's unbelievable.
• 22:32
  Tania: So some of it's lifestyle, some of it's just what we expect, but, I wanna hear also about a comment that, um, you describe long distance walking as walking back to yourself.
• 22:46
  Tania: It almost sounds like a spiritual transformation.
• 22:49
  Tania: I'm curious about what you were walking back to and you know, who was the Sioux that started the Camino versus the Sioux that ended the Camino?
• 22:59
  Sue: Um, I get kind of emotional when I think about this and it's, it's, you know, it's nothing against my family, but like, I hope it doesn't sound like I'm, I'm not grateful for my family.
• 23:12
  Sue: But when you walk Camino, it's you, especially if you go by yourself, you're not.
• 23:17
  Sue: I'm not Jim's wife.
• 23:19
  Sue: I'm not Jack's mom.
• 23:21
  Sue: I'm not Caitlyn's mom.
• 23:23
  Sue: I'm not Katie's daughter.
• 23:24
  Sue: I'm not Linda's sister.
• 23:25
  Sue: I'm Sue.
• 23:26
  Sue: And so any exterior expectations that either your family or your loved ones or society places on you is completely gone and it's like you, do you, does that make sense?
• 23:44
  Sue: Like you're walking back to yourself and that
• 23:46
  Tania: What I'm hearing, and correct me if I'm off, but what I'm hearing is almost like shedding an old identity and coming into a greater realization of just you, you without the labels of mom, sister, wife, whatever, and.
• 24:03
  Tania: I love that because in this work of self-development and breaking free of limiting beliefs, the core is identity work, right?
• 24:12
  Tania: How we define ourselves.
• 24:14
  Tania: Because from our identity is where we get our thoughts.
• 24:18
  Tania: And from that, that's where we get our behaviors and our actions and our results and we, and it sounds like you tapped into an incredible freedom of who is Sue taken outside of all of these constraints and labels and expectations and roles that you've assumed and.
• 24:32
  Tania: Who's just the pure essence of Sue.
• 24:35
  Tania: Am I hearing you correctly?
• 24:38
  Sue: Because, even back as a kid.
• 24:41
  Sue: My dad, like I, I would feel my mother has, is in heaven now.
• 24:48
  Sue: And if she can hear me, I'm so sorry.
• 24:50
  Sue: I don't think she can hear me, but, she would, I feel guilty saying this, but my whole childhood, I heard, oh my gosh, you don't take after your dad, you take after me.
• 25:01
  Sue: She said it all the time, and as a kid I loved it.
• 25:05
  Sue: Oh my God.
• 25:06
  Sue: I loved being like my mom.
• 25:08
  Sue: You know, like people liked her.
• 25:10
  Sue: She was fun.
• 25:11
  Sue: But my dad lettered in every sport.
• 25:14
  Sue: Like he literally lettered, he was the captain of the team.
• 25:19
  Sue: He lettered in football, he lettered in baseball, he bl in basketball.
• 25:22
  Sue: He was so athletic even when he passed away, like he was 68 when he passed away of cancer.
• 25:28
  Sue: Even with chemo, the guy was like, still like buff and fit and um, with a whole head of hair, go figure.
• 25:36
  Sue: But, he was just strong and muscular and He didn't look like he was dying of cancer.
• 25:40
  Sue: He was just so muscular and so strong.
• 25:42
  Sue: So my whole life I heard, oh, you're not athletic like you're your dad.
• 25:47
  Sue: I'm so sorry you take after me.
• 25:49
  Sue: I heard, I always heard that.
• 25:50
  Sue: So in my mind, and then you combine it with the fact that I was picked last.
• 25:55
  Sue: I didn't do a whole lot of good to like, give the supporting argument that I was athletic, I honestly feel like I do take after my dad.
• 26:05
  Sue: I'm not gonna ever do like uneven bars as a gymnast or do cartwheels or run a five minute mile.
• 26:13
  Sue: But, um.
• 26:15
  Sue: I don't know.
• 26:17
  Sue: I feel like I have more of my dad in me than I was ever told as a child, which that's not walking back to myself, but it's like I can create my own identity.
• 26:26
  Sue: Like I can decide who I get to be.
• 26:29
  Sue: I have certain traits from my mom, which I'm very grateful for, and I have certain traits from my dad.
• 26:35
  Sue: And I feel like that's the whole idea of banishing the lies because it's like.
• 26:40
  Sue: I was told my whole childhood, oh, you're just not athletic like me.
• 26:45
  Sue: You're just not.
• 26:46
  Sue: So, I believed it and I'm not saying I'm athletic now, but what a thing to believe.
• 26:51
  Sue: Like it's just so limiting.
• 26:52
  Sue: You know what I mean?
• 26:53
  Tania: Exactly.
• 26:54
  Tania: Yeah, it totally resonates.
• 26:55
  Tania: And why I said of course is 'cause I remember one time when we were chatting about setting up this interview, you had said you had gone to the gym and what I recall you saying was my clients rely on me being strong, to lead these, these walks, I need to stay strong and you're doing weightlifting you have just carved a completely different path, which when I heard that, I just thought it's so cool because it flies in the face of everything that you were told.
• 27:18
  Tania: And you know how many of us don't take on an opportunity like what you did that redefines these stories that we've had for so long.
• 27:31
  Tania: And I just think it's so inspiring.
• 27:34
  Tania: It's amazing.
• 27:35
  Tania: And I would imagine that, you get to witness or are you very present to how these walks?
• 27:43
  Tania: Um, transform the women who are, is it mainly women that join?
• 27:49
  Sue: All women.
• 27:49
  Sue: All women.
• 27:51
  Tania: Yeah.
• 27:51
  Tania: I mean, without disclosing anything private or specific.
• 27:55
  Tania: I'm curious if you have any stories of the kinds of experiences people have and what they share after going through this for the first time.
• 28:03
  Tania: 'cause I feel like there's a connection between the Camino and limiting beliefs.
• 28:08
  Tania: There's something that changes.
• 28:08
  Tania: In that process, like with you, you were talking about you experienced yourself free of all these labels and roles, and do you think that that's a common experience or, and I'm curious what other things women have shared with you.
• 28:22
  Sue: I have a, a friend that I mentored 'cause I not only have my business, but I serve as a volunteer.
• 28:28
  Sue: Um.
• 28:28
  Sue: I am a volunteer with American Pilgrims on the Camino, and you can put that in your show notes.
• 28:35
  Sue: It's a, a national organization to foster friendship between Spain and the us but it's also to foster, organic mentorship between people who have already walked this route and then new people come and we do training walks locally.
• 28:49
  Sue: I do that as a volunteer, and I have a very dear friend of mine who I mentored for her first Camino, and I won't say names, but she had shared with me that, the Camino changed her life in such a profound way that she was on some pretty heavy like,, antidepressant drugs and she was very depressed.
• 29:13
  Sue: Um, she lost, I think, 85 pounds just training.
• 29:18
  Sue: It completely changed her life.
• 29:20
  Sue: And, it wasn't on my trip.
• 29:22
  Sue: She walked to her own Camino.
• 29:23
  Sue: So yes, the Camino has this in incredible potential to transform, repeatable in a radical way, physically, emotionally, spiritually, all of the above.
• 29:36
  Sue: I don't wanna give her, it's her story to tell, but like, she inspires me every day when I think about it, because she said, she goes, oh my gosh, it changed my life.
• 29:47
  Sue: And she came to a potluck at my house and she's like, I don't think I can do it.
• 29:50
  Sue: I'm like, yes, you can do it.
• 29:52
  Sue: We went on a walk like right away.
• 29:54
  Sue: And then that whole spring she trained like crazy and she did it.
• 29:57
  Sue: And since then, she's, she's walked across.
• 30:01
  Sue: France twice, and she's walked across the San Bernard pass.
• 30:07
  Sue: I mean, she's, she's a strong, strong woman and I think she found her strength after some heavy loss in her life that Camino changed her life.
• 30:16
  Sue: And I just got the privilege to, to witness that.
• 30:21
  Sue: I mean, I don't think I was the reason for it, but I helped her find that strength by helping mentor her.
• 30:27
  Sue: That's why I'm so passionate about leading women on these trips because it does have the power to transform you.
• 30:33
  Sue: And this is kind of a funny story.
• 30:36
  Sue: So the average age, I would say, the people that go on my trip, I've had, I think we had, like through the five years we, the first year we did have.
• 30:45
  Sue: I think a woman in her late thirties.
• 30:48
  Sue: We've had 40 year olds, 50 year olds, 60 year olds.
• 30:50
  Sue: I don't think I've ever had anyone older than like sixties in the sixties that I know of.
• 30:55
  Sue: Um, and we were in France and it was after a very particularly long day.
• 31:01
  Sue: In fact, it's the longest day we would do on this one path.
• 31:05
  Sue: It's somewhere just over 18 miles and it's very challenging and it's the, the dead center of the trip.
• 31:13
  Sue: and I warn everyone this is, that's the day you're training for, you're not training for the first eight days.
• 31:20
  Sue: You're not training for the last or the, I think it's the fifth day you're training for that day.
• 31:25
  Sue: And I promise you, you're gonna hate me when you're doing it, but you're gonna love me afterwards.
• 31:31
  Sue: And I always tell people if, if you really don't think you can do it, we can call a cab.
• 31:36
  Sue: We, you can get a bus, like we can figure it out.
• 31:38
  Sue: But really push yourself.
• 31:39
  Sue: I really want you to try.
• 31:41
  Sue: And I stay with the slowest person so no one's ever left behind.
• 31:44
  Sue: And we had this woman in her mid forties.
• 31:47
  Sue: And we called her June Junior because we were all like around 60 ish.
• 31:52
  Sue: And she was like in her early forties and we were all at least 15 years older than her.
• 31:57
  Sue: And at dinner one night she was crying and she, I was like, you.
• 32:03
  Sue: Okay.
• 32:04
  Sue: And she goes, no, I am, I'm not.
• 32:08
  Sue: I I wanted my husband to get me outta here.
• 32:10
  Sue: And I said, what'd he say?
• 32:11
  Sue: He said, he goes, you're gonna find your strength and you're gonna finish the trip because you'll hate yourself if you don't finish.
• 32:17
  Sue: That's a good husband, by the way.
• 32:18
  Sue: And, um.
• 32:20
  Sue: I said, well be honest with me.
• 32:22
  Sue: Didn't you train like you trained for this, right?
• 32:25
  Sue: And she goes, no, I'm going with women.
• 32:28
  Sue: 15 year olds older.
• 32:29
  Sue: I thought I was gonna be with a bunch of old ladies, but you all are walking circles around.
• 32:33
  Sue: She's like, you all are killing me.
• 32:36
  Sue: And I mean, not that I love that.
• 32:38
  Sue: We were like, it just shows you that like we can flip the script on, on aging too.
• 32:44
  Sue: Like who says that someone 60 has to sit in a rocking chair and be sedentary?
• 32:50
  Tania: Well, I can tell you as a 54-year-old, I am very excited by that idea.
• 32:56
  Tania: And I think I told you that doing one of these walks is definitely on my bucket list.
• 33:01
  Tania: Um, I, you know, we could talk forever.
• 33:04
  Tania: I had a couple other questions.
• 33:05
  Tania: There's one I wanted to ask you and you know, 'cause I've spent so many years.
• 33:09
  Tania: In the self-help and reading all the books, and doing all the courses and the retreats and all the things.
• 33:15
  Tania: I don't know if you can distill like one or two things that the Camino taught you that no book ever taught you, or no therapist, or no, program or whatever, like is there one or two key gems that you really learn
• 33:32
  Sue: on, let me, I actually made a list of them.
• 33:33
  Sue: And I won't read all of them.
• 33:36
  Sue: Hold on.
• 33:37
  Tania: No problem.
• 33:38
  Sue: No, it's a note in my phone that I did on the day I finished the Camino.
• 33:42
  Sue: Like, I literally sat and wrote down the lessons I learned.
• 33:45
  Sue: I'm not gonna bore you with all of them, but like, um, I haven't looked at this list in a long time.
• 33:53
  Sue: Okay.
• 33:54
  Sue: I think this is the biggest one.
• 33:55
  Sue: Um, there's always look for signs.
• 33:59
  Sue: The signs are always there because when you're walking, there's way markers and you'll be like, which, where am I supposed to go?
• 34:08
  Sue: And you just look up and there's an arrow and I loved it so much.
• 34:12
  Sue: I got an arrow tattoo when I, once I got to Santiago.
• 34:15
  Sue: Can you see it?
• 34:16
  Tania: Yes, I can.
• 34:17
  Sue: an arrow on my wrist.
• 34:19
  Tania: for people who can't see or just pointing to your wrist.
• 34:21
  Tania: Yeah.
• 34:21
  Tania: That's very cool.
• 34:22
  Tania: So is this like a metaphor that we're always being guided when you say there are always signs.
• 34:30
  Sue: There's always signs.
• 34:31
  Sue: Yeah.
• 34:32
  Sue: I feel like God gives us breadcrumbs and we just have to ask for the signs.
• 34:36
  Sue: You just have to ask.
• 34:38
  Sue: Signs and, and like one thing that I use this all the time is I use analogies for hiking in the Camino when I'm faced with a struggle.
• 34:49
  Sue: And I remember one day specifically, um, we were walking on this like plane and I looked up and there's a mountain and I go, oh my God, are we, do we have to climb that mountain tomorrow?
• 35:02
  Sue: And, um.
• 35:05
  Sue: I don't remember, honest to God, I don't remember where I was exactly or who said this to me.
• 35:09
  Sue: Whoever was walking next to me said, yeah, but you just have to look for the next arrow.
• 35:14
  Sue: Don't worry about that mountain.
• 35:17
  Sue: Just look for the next arrow.
• 35:18
  Sue: And I'm like,
• 35:19
  Tania: my gosh.
• 35:20
  Tania: Sorry.
• 35:21
  Tania: We need to just pause there.
• 35:22
  Tania: Is that not a metaphor for everything?
• 35:24
  Tania: Like, honestly, when I think about the years I spent riddled with anxiety, it's because we're staring at the fricking mountain, not looking just for the next arrow.
• 35:34
  Tania: I love that so much.
• 35:37
  Sue: The next
• 35:38
  Tania: yeah.
• 35:38
  Tania: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 35:40
  Tania: That's beautiful.
• 35:41
  Tania: Is there
• 35:43
  Sue: Um, oh, here's another one like these.
• 35:46
  Sue: Some of these are just silly, but like.
• 35:47
  Sue: The extra weight you carry is carrying your fears.
• 35:51
  Sue: Like I carried an 11 pound pack, but I met people who carried an entire pharmacy in their backpack and their, they had these like gigantic packs.
• 36:01
  Sue: And the truth is everything you need, you're gonna find, like, you may have to walk a mile or two to find a pharmacy, but don't carry your fears.
• 36:09
  Sue: Don't carry all the what ifs.
• 36:11
  Sue: Like, oh, I'm gonna carry.
• 36:14
  Sue: This is a weird, I'm gonna carry preparation H just in case I get a hemorrhoid or something.
• 36:20
  Tania: Of all the things to mention.
• 36:21
  Tania: Okay, we went there.
• 36:22
  Tania: Um, no, that's hilarious.
• 36:24
  Tania: And.
• 36:25
  Sue: I mean you No, I literally met people who had everything in their first aid kit, like you name it, they're carrying a pharmacy.
• 36:33
  Tania: I can relate to that and even more so I remember when I used to pack for my daughter when she was younger.
• 36:38
  Tania: It's like, well, what if this happens?
• 36:39
  Tania: And what if she needs this?
• 36:40
  Tania: I better have band-aids like I was that mom with the purse, the size of whatever those turtle backpacks or whatever you called it.
• 36:47
  Tania: So that would be a tremendous lesson for me.
• 36:52
  Sue: yeah.
• 36:52
  Sue: You've
• 36:53
  Tania: to always think ahead about what could happen, what could go wrong.
• 36:56
  Tania: Am I prepared?
• 36:56
  Tania: Am I gonna have it?
• 36:57
  Tania: Like there's, it's a, it's a trust thing too, right?
• 37:02
  Sue: Yeah, it's, yes, yes.
• 37:04
  Sue: The Camino provides.
• 37:05
  Sue: That's the other thing that
• 37:07
  Tania: Yes.
• 37:07
  Tania: I've heard that.
• 37:08
  Tania: Saying that the Camino provides, is that like the, the spiritual aspect
• 37:12
  Sue: but it's God.
• 37:13
  Sue: Yeah, it's, but God is God.
• 37:15
  Sue: He always is gonna provide for us.
• 37:17
  Sue: Always.
• 37:17
  Sue: It's true.
• 37:20
  Sue: And you.
• 37:21
  Sue: And when you go there, that's a cool thing.
• 37:23
  Sue: That's why I'm so addicted to doing these walks.
• 37:25
  Sue: You walk with the expectation because you like live in expectation and when you have a spirit of expectation, you look for the miracles in every little thing.
• 37:35
  Sue: And that's the best part about walking these walks is like you just look for all the little signs and all the little miracles and all the little blessings.
• 37:44
  Tania: Yeah, what you said there is really profound because so much of what we experience reflects what we expect.
• 37:50
  Tania: Absolutely.
• 37:52
  Sue: Do you want one about, okay, I have one about solitude or eating.
• 37:57
  Tania: ooh, you're forcing me to choose, I'm an Italian.
• 38:00
  Tania: I mean, I'm curious what you wrote about eating.
• 38:03
  Sue: Okay, well excuse my body mouth, but I said you are what you eat.
• 38:07
  Sue: If you eat shit, you will feel like shit.
• 38:10
  Sue: If you eat well, the extra miles are so much easier.
• 38:15
  Tania: But I think it's also an amazing meta metaphor for not just what you eat, you said it yourself, the miracles that you're looking for, looking for the beauty.
• 38:23
  Tania: So it's also what you feed yourself in terms of your thoughts and your expectations.
• 38:27
  Tania: And I wonder just as a, as maybe a closing thought, so people listening to this who might be thinking, oh God, that sounds amazing, but I could never do that.
• 38:37
  Tania: What would you like them to understand?
• 38:42
  Sue: I think anybody could do it.
• 38:44
  Tania: Hmm.
• 38:45
  Sue: I do, I feel like it's just walking.
• 38:48
  Sue: Just would put one step in front of the other.
• 38:50
  Sue: I mean, I'm not gonna lie, that first day I was really having a hard time making it up the side of this mountain and or foothill I should say.
• 38:59
  Sue: And then the next day was the final walk and over the mountain.
• 39:02
  Sue: And, um, it was a really, really hard descent.
• 39:07
  Sue: And I remember my husband's like, are you okay?
• 39:09
  Sue: And I said, no, I can't.
• 39:11
  Sue: I just gotta rest.
• 39:12
  Sue: I can't go any farther.
• 39:13
  Sue: And he's like, the hotel's right there.
• 39:15
  Sue: So I, I feel like that first part, you just have to.
• 39:18
  Sue: It was hard.
• 39:20
  Sue: Yeah.
• 39:21
  Sue: I thought, I thought I had trained, but there's like no way you to train and there's just, there's no way.
• 39:26
  Sue: But I think for anyone who doesn't think they can do it, I'm telling you, I'm out of all the people who couldn't do it, it's me.
• 39:34
  Sue: Come on.
• 39:36
  Sue: do it.
• 39:38
  Sue: I hated gym class.
• 39:41
  Tania: Yeah, and that's what I just loved about the story and why I wanted people to hear this because there's so many things that we think that we can't do.
• 39:47
  Tania: So I'm just curious now, what's the next thing?
• 39:51
  Sue: For me right now, I have a mental block about 10.
• 39:55
  Tania: Mm.
• 39:56
  Sue: And people keep saying, oh, just hire a Fiverr person to help you with the tech stuff for my business.
• 40:04
  Tania: Yeah.
• 40:05
  Sue: And I'm like, but I get so much gratification outta figuring things out that I know that sounds crazy.
• 40:13
  Sue: I procrastinate and I procrastinate and I get stressed over it.
• 40:16
  Sue: But then when it really comes down to the thought of hiring someone to do it, I don't wanna do it because I feel like that's making it too easy.
• 40:23
  Sue: Like, I wanna challenge myself with the tech stuff.
• 40:25
  Sue: So I actually designed with the help of a friend, I, I did my own website and I, I know I, I'm,
• 40:35
  Tania: I mean, for somebody who's challenged by tech, it's like, Hey, let's just go build my website.
• 40:39
  Sue: I mean, it's, I feel like that's what we should do though.
• 40:43
  Sue: If you think you can't do something, at least try it.
• 40:46
  Sue: Like now that I, I wanna learn it.
• 40:49
  Sue: Like, I don't wanna just hire someone to do stuff for me.
• 40:51
  Sue: Like if I, you know, with the podcasting, I wanna edit my podcast myself.
• 40:56
  Sue: I wanna know that I can do it.
• 40:57
  Sue: So therefore, if I do hire someone, I know what they're doing.
• 41:00
  Sue: Does that make sense?
• 41:01
  Tania: It makes complete sense.
• 41:02
  Tania: I think
• 41:03
  Sue: I don't know.
• 41:04
  Tania: yeah, there's a difference of outsourcing this because it truly doesn't bring you joy.
• 41:08
  Tania: Versus, oh my God, I can't do this.
• 41:11
  Tania: I could never learn this.
• 41:12
  Tania: Like that's a different energy and a different intention, and I just love that.
• 41:16
  Tania: You're like, yeah, that seems hard, so I'm going to do it.
• 41:20
  Tania: And there's something really powerful about that because I think that's where you can build self-trust.
• 41:25
  Tania: You're like, this was hard.
• 41:27
  Tania: I did it.
• 41:27
  Tania: And over time you start to create momentum that, hey, I can do hard things and I don't have to be limited because it scares me or because I failed the first time, or whatever the story is.
• 41:39
  Tania: So I absolutely love that.
• 41:41
  Tania: Speaking of websites, I'm guessing there's gonna be a lot of people listening to this.
• 41:45
  Tania: Who are inspired, and curious about where they can find you and learn more about what you do.
• 41:53
  Tania: So this might be a great time to tell people what is your website or what is the best way to, to find you and learn more about these, these walks.
• 42:04
  Sue: My website is www.womenwhowalktheworld.com, and I have an Instagram.
• 42:10
  Sue: I don't.
• 42:12
  Sue: Post as much as I should, but I do have Instagram and I always look at the dms.
• 42:18
  Sue: So, um, that's where you can find me and I will be having a, I have a podcast that will be launching soon called Women Who Walk the World where I'll be interviewing women who have done crazy, brave things.
• 42:33
  Sue: So I've got women.
• 42:35
  Sue: Who have Expatriated to Paris, one woman who leads pilgrimages through all over France.
• 42:44
  Sue: Um, Australian woman who has walked all over Spain, solo and France solo.
• 42:50
  Sue: So it's oh and a, and a woman who, um, traveled around the world with three little kids for 13 months, if you can believe it.
• 43:00
  Tania: No, I
• 43:00
  Sue: I'm hoping to.
• 43:01
  Tania: it.
• 43:02
  Tania: So I am, I am definitely gonna check out that episode because just raising two kids, period.
• 43:07
  Tania: End right there.
• 43:08
  Tania: You already lost me at the how that works.
• 43:09
  Tania: I have one child,
• 43:11
  Sue: Yeah, but I, I think, I think you'll be my, my whole goal is to empower and inspire women.
• 43:16
  Sue: And I love the theme of your podcast because if.
• 43:21
  Sue: If I can ignore the lies that I believed about myself, I think anybody can.
• 43:27
  Sue: And the first part of it is identifying that it's a lie.
• 43:30
  Sue: Don't just take, just don't challenge your absolutes.
• 43:35
  Sue: I think that's the biggest key is like, whatever you think about yourself, just ask yourself, what if that wasn't the case?
• 43:42
  Sue: What if maybe, maybe I could be athletic or maybe I could do tech.
• 43:49
  Tania: Yeah, I think that's brilliant.
• 43:50
  Tania: I mean, I love the question of who would I be without that thought, you know, who would I be without that belief?
• 43:55
  Tania: And I think sometimes it's hard, like in your case.
• 43:57
  Tania: I, I think it's amazing that you identified it and you dispelled it because sometimes when something is just always been there, you even forget that this is something you took on.
• 44:09
  Tania: You know what I mean?
• 44:10
  Tania: Like it just feels so close to home.
• 44:12
  Tania: You sometimes forget it's a lie.
• 44:15
  Tania: 'cause it's a thought.
• 44:15
  Tania: You've repeated so often that it's just like, yeah, that's just who I am.
• 44:18
  Tania: That's just the way it is.
• 44:20
  Tania: And we don't necessarily stop to go, wait a minute, is that actually true?
• 44:24
  Tania: And what might be possible if I just decided I'm not gonna buy into that anymore.
• 44:29
  Tania: And that's exactly what you did, which is beautiful.
• 44:32
  Tania: And now you make that space for all these women who do this, and I can't wait to be one of them.
• 44:39
  Tania: Now I'm
• 44:40
  Sue: I know I can't.
• 44:41
  Tania: the fifth day.
• 44:42
  Sue: come to Italy with me.
• 44:43
  Sue: What?
• 44:44
  Tania: Yeah, I'm prepared for that fifth day on that one.
• 44:47
  Tania: Well, that was that one particular route, but I'm sure every route has that particular day or whatever that's more challenging than others, depending on the terrain.
• 44:55
  Tania: Um, I've never done that.
• 44:57
  Tania: I did do, um this is not apples to apples, but I remember when I did a 10 day silent meditation retreat.
• 45:03
  Tania: It was day three that he said, if you can make it past day three.
• 45:07
  Tania: Then, then you can do this.
• 45:09
  Tania: And that was the day that a lot of people quit, where it just got unbearably silent and, so a different kind of challenge, but that same concept, if you can make it over the hill, can make it over the hump, then um, it's freedom.
• 45:25
  Tania: Sounds like a lot of freedom and self-awareness and transformation available on the other side.
• 45:32
  Tania: So.
• 45:33
  Tania: Thank you for sharing your story.
• 45:37
  Sue: Thank you for having me.
• 45:38
  Tania: I so appreciate it.
• 45:43
  Speaker: Thanks for listening to Banish The Lies.
• 45:45
  Speaker: If today's episode resonated with you, take a moment to let it settle in.
• 45:49
  Speaker: And maybe share it with a friend who could use it too.
• 45:52
  Speaker: Lies, lose their power when we're brave enough to challenge them.
• 45:56
  Speaker: I'm Tania Cervoni, and until next time, be kind to yourself.
• 46:01
  Speaker: And remember, you're not broken, you're not alone, and you don't have to stay stuck.