Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / Peter Rugman (The NonStick Pans) | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #126 |

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Peter Rugman (The NonStick Pans) | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #126 | · The Christian Reeve Podcast

0:00
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian we've
0:02
podcast. Today's guest is a songwriter
0:05
content creator actor. All the way from Lancashire.
0:08
His name is Peter Ruckman. Welcome to the show.
0:10
You how you doing, Peter. Hello, nice to be here.
0:13
Thank you for having me. So absolute pleasure.
0:16
I'm pretty excited by this been firstly.
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It's my first guest of 2022. I wanted to get you on the show
0:23
anyway, because I just like your Vibe on on ticked at like, okay
0:29
let me put it this way. Way straight away.
0:32
I was like this guy's got to be a comedian at least from some
0:36
perspective like, you know, there must be like some
0:37
professional training there and when I started doing my
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research, I was like, okay, yeah, it's it made sense but
0:45
like, you know, it's not me that trying to kiss your ass or
0:48
something. It's just I think that there's a
0:51
difference between someone making content having a laugh
0:54
and just seeing where it goes to someone with kind of like
0:58
structure in what they're doing. Having, you know, like
1:00
immediately noticed yourself a lot of content creators online.
1:04
I see that they kind of have a structure and they know what
1:06
they do. It like, for example, if we're
1:08
talking about comedy, there's a lot of people that are popping
1:10
up on Tick-Tock now that I like very clearly inspired by Ricky
1:16
Gervais sand that kind of error of commodore.
1:18
Yeah. And you can see it, come
1:20
through. You know what I mean?
1:21
And it's, I think that is, is owed a lot to, to taking the
1:26
time to actually kind of do your research in that area and And
1:30
learn to do that. Yeah.
1:31
Because like the biggest thing, I think we've Ricky, Gervais, in
1:33
his line of Comedy is timing, which?
1:36
Yeah, obviously, that's important in comedy.
1:38
Anyway, but it's I think Tik-Tok has lent itself to that anyway,
1:41
because you know, it started off as sort of like a dancing up and
1:44
then people would sort of overdub line.
1:46
So if people can overdub a scene from the office and get the
1:49
timing, right, it's sort of it's a good training tool in that
1:52
sense. I think I've never really done
1:53
that myself. I've not really done overdubbing
1:55
scenes from sitcoms and stuff, but I have seen them.
2:00
Yeah. I mean you approach it the same
2:02
way I do which is like you know you jump on those Trends every
2:05
now and again but mostly are focused on creating you know
2:08
your own thing. It's like I kinda put my music
2:10
out there which will get to my comedy out there, etc, etc, and
2:14
what happens happens and one of the biggest reasons why I wanted
2:17
to get you on the show, obviously a was to Showcase you
2:21
and be like, hey, go check out this guy, he's very talented and
2:24
very underrated but on the flip side, I'm getting the same
2:28
problem as you are with Talk, which is that, if you're a
2:31
content creator trying to actually get somewhere, it's
2:36
very rare that you actually do a tick tock and I've seen, you've
2:40
made quite a few videos where you've been like, hey, what's up
2:43
Tick, Tock? Like why are you burying me in
2:46
the oh yeah, you know, yeah, well I'm one, I am one among
2:49
many who struggled with it because I've chatted to quite a
2:51
few other content creators who have made it big but it is a
2:55
Minefield. You can't, I can't, you know,
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I've been on it for two years now.
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I think I first started In March, 20, 20, just as the
3:02
lockdown started and still it's a mystery to me.
3:06
I do. It seems to me that every
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account has different issues and different rules for different
3:12
people agree with that. Actually, today I made a quick
3:17
video about this but I'll just drop this because this is this
3:19
is today, I saw, I've seen a lot of strange lives because I'll
3:25
just give you some context. I got banned from live streaming
3:28
on. Ticked up, maybe.
3:30
Six months ago, I don't know. Is long time ago?
3:32
I switched ridiculous. Yeah.
3:34
Well, I was talking about advertising, actually because I
3:37
have a background in marketing and have an international
3:40
audience. So there's people there that,
3:42
you know, don't know about our Christmas, add thing and what
3:44
that's all about. So I tried to explain that and
3:47
then I sort of tongue-in-cheek reference to company which is
3:52
the did A Christmas, add one year for mature content and is
3:56
perfectly fine. It was on daytime television at
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the time. Yeah.
3:59
But I meant In the name and not 30 seconds later.
4:02
Boom. Banned banned for life?
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So that's insane. Yeah.
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And you you're still banned for the last half year, you've not
4:10
been able to I see it as a win because they lose out with
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content creators like us. They, you know, the actually
4:19
take time to really construct. Good content stuff that people
4:23
can really enjoy. Because that's the thing,
4:25
there's there is a difference and don't get me wrong, I'm not
4:27
having a go at people that just want to use it for fun.
4:30
You know, because that's what it's there for but I see a lot
4:33
of people doing live streams where, you know, they're very
4:37
lazy. The cops just can't be bothered
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very kind of lackadaisical kind of attitude, but they expect a
4:43
lot. You know what I mean?
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It's fine. If you just sit in there and you
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just are whatever. This is just my what I like to
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do for fun. That's fine.
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But when it's like, there's an expectation all, why am I losing
4:53
viewers? Why doesn't know any pair, but
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then you're just sitting there like, yeah, uh-huh.
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You know, whatever. Like that, that.
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And that frustrates me. Because, you know, keep compared
5:05
to myself. But yeah, I put that structure
5:07
in just as you do in your videos and everything that you're doing
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like, um, it's just it's a frustrating thing to me.
5:14
I don't want to talk to the whole podcast about Tick-Tock
5:18
but I feel it's very important to reference this because you've
5:21
had some videos that done really really well.
5:23
I think the first one that I saw was either a comedy one or like
5:27
a sort of Smith's parody, which was Amazing.
5:30
But it's just hilarious. The Morrissey one.
5:34
Yeah, yeah. Very on The Mark with that one
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but yeah, I don't know I picked up these days Cesspool.
5:43
Like I mentioned, the thing that I saw today which was there was
5:46
a live stream of a girl. It was the front of her and
5:52
she's just reading a book and let's put it this way.
5:57
Something is going on behind her, which you can't see and
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it's probably something mature that would definitely not be
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allowed on on the live and a lot of people were like it's fake.
6:10
She's faking it. Another people were like, oh my
6:12
God. Is this really happening with
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22,000 people were there? And this is an app that has, you
6:18
know, I think it's the Angus. You can be as 1314 on the app.
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Hmm, you probably got kids anyway, but point is, they're
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supposed to be measures there to protect people from stuff like
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that. And yet those kind of lives, get
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boosted, and that kind of content gets boosted, but when
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me and you try and, you know, make some content like I did an
6:40
acting skip the other day. I did a villainous voice and
6:44
maybe I said a few words like killing and stuff like that, you
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know, in the context of a serial killer and That got me banned
6:51
straight away. But I'm just not transparent.
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I think. And that's the issue.
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There's no transparency about the rules and different rules,
6:58
apply for different people. If you've got a Blue Tick by
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your name, you can certainly get away with a lot more than if you
7:02
don't have a Blue Tick by your name.
7:05
I just wish there were clearer because it's inconsistent.
7:10
Yeah, I totally agree with you but just one final remark on
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this. But like, when I received my ban
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as you say like it, it took them a month.
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With to actually get back to me. So I appealed 11 people appealed
7:24
in my, in my name as well. And the official thing that they
7:28
sent me was sexual content and adult nudity, which I just got
7:32
pop out of as I stood about an advert, what you talking about
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and I didn't even go to debt into detail.
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I just mention the name mentioned, the rough structure
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of the advert, and then moved on and that got me banned.
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And I was like, okay, fine and I accepted it and someone in my
7:47
community said, why don't you message them again?
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It's Month. So it's like, okay so we get to
7:53
that point and then they basically just send me, you
7:57
know, the little piece of text that they probably send everyone
8:01
which is like you have been banned for these reasons.
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That is the end of the matter. There's like, okay, right on,
8:09
will you lose? Not me?
8:10
But it's incredibly frustrating and we should change the subject
8:15
cause I can wax lyrical about this for ages, but it's kind of
8:18
frustrating that you can get. Great success stories with
8:22
Tick-Tock so people can start to hold new music career and the
8:26
more that you dig into some of those the more you realize that
8:28
those sort of success stories of kind of been manufactured by the
8:30
managers and and things like that.
8:32
But it is all about luck and releasing the right content at
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the right time and making sure that you don't step a foot wrong
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at a certain point because my account is still suffering from
8:41
a shadow ban. I had over a year ago.
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It's still intermittent about things and it's certain and
8:45
Shadow buns are absolutely real as well.
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They're incredibly frustrating, 100.
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Sent a real because you can if you do something that upsets
8:53
them and you get the video removed and you upload something
8:56
that's completely unrelated, you'll see that your views of
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suffered, they've taken a massive knock used to be that if
9:02
you did it, because this is what I found.
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The first time, I had one that went viral, is there anything I
9:07
released there after the views were boosted?
9:09
So suddenly, I was receiving a lot of interactions for the same
9:12
type of material. I was releasing the forehand
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which wouldn't have made a dent until I got the shadow ban,
9:17
which point I was getting like minimal views on.
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A lot of things. Remember that I think that's
9:23
actually around the time I discovered you, because you were
9:25
doing a lot of content about that and I was like, yeah, I
9:27
really feel this guy man, is this sucks and it is it's not
9:31
deserved. It's like as I said before just
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to put a line under it like content creators, like us should
9:37
be getting boosted by. We're trying to create content.
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That is good for the platform, the, which it if you think about
9:43
it from a business perspective. All right.
9:45
Yeah. We're not in business with
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Tick-Tock or whatever, but if we were, that's more marketable
9:50
like in. Look at this.
9:51
If that you're doing, it's it's a combination of a kind of like
9:55
60s throwback meets 2000s. Revival kind of open to one will
9:59
elf into that further in a second point is it's something
10:02
really cool that fits with the times because, you know, you're
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talking about current things that people can relate to things
10:10
such as that, you did a song the other day on like toxic
10:12
masculinity in the style of a 60s song, which is just, it's
10:15
just fun, it's cool, but it's safe.
10:18
It's not something that you're going to be shocked by.
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It's just music. Good content and something you
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can get behind. And I just don't understand why
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Tick-Tock can't get behind that. I mean, it's funny.
10:30
It is what it is and it is unfortunate.
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It's like at the moment, I feel kind of has a monopoly on the
10:35
video is certainly surpassed YouTube.
10:36
Oh yeah, but maybe not for too much longer.
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We'll see. We'll see.
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We'll see. Let's move it on.
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Let's talk about your Beginnings in music.
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I'm quite interested in knowing how you got into music
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initially. Your kind of Journey to this
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point. Well, well, I've come from a
10:56
very musical family, my dad's not very musical, but my mum was
11:01
a singer, not professionally, but she sang a lot.
11:04
She was, when I was a kid, she was in a sort of a retro jukebox
11:11
group just for fun and they would sing all the oldies.
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Her mother was again, wasn't a professional singer but she was
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Welsh. So very musical there.
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So this study there is it's almost like she's well.
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So that's a click or qualifications, explain musical
11:30
genes there. And on my dad's side, there's
11:32
irishness as well. So it's an amalgamation of
11:36
Celtic Melodies, but yes, so I heard a lot of the music that my
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parents would have heard growing up, and that kind of influenced
11:45
me things like the Beatles, Elton John, you know, things
11:49
like that, and then throughout my team.
11:52
This was the era of the iPod and iTunes, and when things started,
12:00
taking off, when it was a lot easier to get a hold of music
12:03
than it had been previously, I was still buying CDs and burning
12:08
them onto iTunes and then taking those songs from iTunes on to my
12:12
green iPod. Nano.
12:13
And it's about 14. I'd listen to bands like the
12:16
Hoosiers and also things like Oasis.
12:21
Yeah, when I said earlier, about when I was talking about that
12:28
2000s bands, that your music reminds me of, that was the
12:31
first band that I thought of was the who juices because it is
12:34
like it to explain to people listening to some home.
12:38
Basically Peters band is called the non-stick pans.
12:41
That's right as no. Hmm.
12:43
And it's it's like a mixture of 60s music meets that that kind
12:48
of early 2000s. I Even know what to call it
12:52
really. I mean the hugest said that
12:53
their music was like odd pop or something but it's this very
12:58
specific period of time in the mid-2000s when me and you
13:02
because you mid-20s something late twenties now oh me too.
13:07
So if we're without that was our error basically growing up in
13:09
school and that whole point it was kind of like a brick pop
13:13
thing but not brick pop. It's like our error which I call
13:16
it sort of like, post britpop. Indie Revival.
13:19
It was like, yeah, rock music. X Last Stand before it got
13:22
completely taken over by R&B and sort of pop that's true actually
13:27
well I think about like rock these days.
13:29
I mean I can't think of any bands that have really wowed me
13:33
that everything I listened to rock.
13:34
Related is just old like this. Basically to have in the 20th
13:39
century is what island. Yeah.
13:42
With that being said that there are a lot of good Indie bands
13:45
and bands of discovered English scenario.
13:47
But that's the thing that they're not gone.
13:49
So no sir, I've got a lot of time for the Hoosier Though.
13:52
I mean their first album especially was just one of the
13:54
most incredibly produced albums, I've ever heard it just amazing.
13:57
And I've actually I've met her when a couple of times then he's
14:00
lovely, is such a nice guy is incredibly supportive and just
14:04
incredibly talented as well. He's just, and he's really solid
14:07
material as well, which is well worth listening to, I can
14:10
absolutely recommend that I'll go check, but let's talk about
14:14
your music. So, your music is inspired by
14:17
music from the 60s and earlier, where did this kind of
14:20
inspiration? Begin.
14:21
Obviously you're giving us a little bit of context as far as,
14:23
you know, family and stuff like that, but I'm kind of interested
14:27
to know two things, one who are your main sources of
14:31
inspiration, artist wise and secondly that what kind of drove
14:35
that decision to do what you're doing now with the kind of 60s
14:39
meets 2000s, mix because I think it leans more on the 60s side of
14:43
things, but at the same time, I don't know.
14:46
Every song is different with with your music.
14:47
It's kind of anyway. Yeah, sure yeah. um, well that's
14:52
been obviously I think like I mean they're in everything, I
14:56
did the Beatles in pretty much everything I do.
14:58
They've sort of inspired me and I always try to push towards
15:03
our. What would what would John
15:04
Lennon do? What would Paul McCartney do
15:05
here or try to make things sort of different?
15:09
And I'm trying to push my own boundaries up, why?
15:13
So don't keep falling to my own old tricks.
15:16
Like I said, when I was a teenager, I used to listen to a
15:18
lot of rock bands. I listen to Oasis a great deal
15:22
as well, and again, another band inspired by the Beatles.
15:25
So when it came to sort of starting the non-stick pans I
15:28
was looking at, actually, that was I stood before my gcses
15:35
britpop, that was part of the syllabus and it was this insight
15:39
into how 90s bands drew a great deal of inspiration from 60s
15:45
bands. It was a big 60s Revival.
15:49
So again, I looked at Oasis, I looked at blur and looked at
15:53
their Inspirations in The Kinks and the Owls and stuff.
15:56
And I think, yeah, I listen to a lot of best of albums as well,
16:01
and then from the best of, but individual albums on my old iPod
16:04
kept listening to them and just it just sort of started from
16:08
there in regards to the non-stick pans and how that kind
16:11
of came about. I wrote a lot of music from
16:15
long, long time, since I think I started teaching myself, the
16:19
guitar at about 16 and was just writing a lot of music but not
16:24
really, Get out there and I was kind of waiting for the perfect
16:28
moment to meet a band and to meet the right people and it
16:32
just never fucking happened. That was the thing.
16:35
It's like so I'm Someday. I'm just going to be a drummer
16:38
and I'm going to meet a lead guitarist and a bassist and
16:41
we'll get together and it's like a lot just waiting years and
16:44
years and years. And then I went to drama
16:45
schools, that may be may be here.
16:47
I'll meet them as like, no it never happened and it's
16:49
sometimes it just doesn't and it wasn't for want of trying,
16:52
because I've meet people and they'd be like, oh, yeah.
16:54
Well, I'm Busy, but I'll do. I'll do.
16:56
And so it got to the stage. I graduated with an acting
17:00
degree and I thought well you know what, I've met enough
17:04
people now, and I've got connections, my brother's a
17:06
brilliant musician, I can release the music.
17:11
I've done now to a good standard under a pseudonym and of the
17:16
nonstick plants. And I know enough people now
17:18
that if I ever wanted to, you know, do a short-term gig or
17:21
something like that, that I could, I could do it.
17:24
So I Started compiling our work with my brother and we started
17:29
sort of compiling all these demos that I had together.
17:32
Re-recording, everything track-by-track from like
17:34
GarageBand files and released it that way and it sort of took off
17:41
from there. I love episodes like this where
17:45
I have about a thousand questions.
17:47
This is really good. Okay.
17:48
So Yeah, this is what I thought it was, was the case with your
17:55
band. So basically, it is just you,
17:58
you are, you know, the face of it, and you essentially higher
18:01
session, musicians, that, right, or people that yours.
18:05
Yeah. PB you're willing to work with
18:06
when it comes to when it comes to performing things life.
18:09
I like for people to be involved as much as possible because in
18:13
the end I consider it a collaborative process.
18:14
I like the live versions of songs not to be album accurate,
18:18
I want people to enjoy you know, inject a bit of them.
18:21
I was into it because if people wanted to hear album accurate
18:24
songs, they could just listen to the album, you know.
18:28
Obviously we're for there's been a lack of live shows recently
18:34
unfortunately. Yeah some reason but hopefully
18:41
maybe we'll be seeing some more this year.
18:43
We'll see plague permitted. Absolutely mad.
18:48
I definitely want to see your band play.
18:53
Since that's the case with the structure of all the best, why
18:56
why go with a kind of a name like you've gone with rather
19:00
than just go under under your knit?
19:02
But what was the decision? Kind of felt like, well, if I
19:06
just go into Peter Ruckman, it's pretty boring.
19:08
And I looked at the like, the, the groups that I would listen
19:12
to even in solo artist, like David Bowie was a, was a moniker
19:17
he went up. And there is real name.
19:18
Is Davy Jones. I just figured let's um, I like
19:22
bands. I, I like the idea of in the
19:27
1960s. There were these breakout groups
19:30
like The Beatles like Herman's Hermits Gerry and the Pacemakers
19:34
there were Ridiculous names and I just let's go with something
19:38
that absolutely no band would call themselves now because the
19:41
nonstick pans is a ridiculous name.
19:43
I don't know. Anyone who'd want to call
19:44
themselves that. So I'll take it.
19:46
It's mine. And so I just released it under
19:49
that or two things, one non-stick pans are chefs kiss.
19:55
Brilliant. Brilliant.
19:56
Just just saying the band and the actual pans that you use for
20:00
cooking. Yeah and contested conventions.
20:03
And secondly, when you talk about those now, James I'm
20:05
ashamed to say it was only a couple of years ago that I maybe
20:08
this is just my idiocy or ignorance, but I actually
20:10
finally realized that the reason the Beatles is called The
20:14
Beatles. It's because It's like beats
20:18
like it's a Terran Pete's. No.
20:22
But I love all kinds of names before they reach that all kinds
20:25
of bad names before they reach that as well.
20:27
But I love that because that is the most British thing ever.
20:30
Like, if you've never been to Britain or England or whatever,
20:34
there are so many puns for business names and it's like who
20:39
can come up with the best pun and that's such a British thing.
20:42
I don't understand why we do that is hilarious.
20:46
Anyway, let's talk a little bit about your songwriting process
20:51
so you mentioned a little bit before that.
20:53
You know you think what would John do?
20:55
Well pull the kind of feeds the process a little bit but what
20:59
does it actually look like when you sit down and try to kind of
21:02
hammer these songs out. It's different each time I think
21:06
and it depends what I'm working with.
21:07
Sometimes I work from a piano and guitar, sometimes I can work
21:11
just from a beat but I can be I can be listening to music.
21:17
I can hear something that's not there and I think all let's
21:19
let's go with that. I've actually other songs have
21:22
come from other songs. So I've heard something, I said,
21:24
I wouldn't be good. If in this song, they did
21:28
something like this. And then I work from the basis
21:30
of that. And I take that, but more often
21:33
than not, it starts with the chord sequence that I find, and
21:38
Then followed, by the melody, followed by arranging it and
21:43
altering it sometimes, I've written songs that are Just
21:47
terrible. And I, I never I'll record them.
21:50
Go. Yeah, this is great.
21:51
And then I come back to and go, no, this is awful.
21:53
So scrap it or completely rework it.
21:58
Yeah, it's varied and say I have this problem because I write
22:03
songs as well, and I do regular live streams.
22:06
And amazingly, my community is actually started learning my
22:10
songs, which blows my mind. But some sometimes, there are
22:14
songs that they asked for. About.
22:17
I don't really like playing like I don't like the song and I'm
22:19
kind of like then it's let's just bury this one.
22:22
And what about this one? But it's like me people like
22:25
what they like you know, they mean and I that that's when I
22:27
finally understood why bands hate playing songs, I mean other
22:31
than having to play them relentlessly forever for
22:35
eternity. But for instance, if your
22:37
Radiohead, I understand that they don't really like, yeah,
22:40
they don't like playing creep which is an amazing song but I
22:43
guess it's like it's a bit. Like when you've heard you know,
22:46
No Smells Like Teen Spirit on the radio about million times
22:51
and suddenly, you just can't listen to that song Anymore.
22:53
Yeah, it's just like, I think the understanding that I could
22:57
be wrong on this was that when they wrote creep, it really
22:59
wasn't them that never that wasn't the sound that they were
23:02
kind of going for, but it was the sound that launched them, so
23:06
it must be. Yeah, it's frustrating.
23:09
It's yeah, I kind of get where they're coming from one that
23:13
like that that's been certainly my songwriting Journey over
23:16
Years, which I think is key as well whenever you hear about,
23:21
not only artists changing their sound over time, but why an
23:25
artist will change their sound from album to album, it's
23:28
because they want to do something different.
23:29
It's boring to release the same 20 albums.
23:32
Like I remember, I was big Slayer fan growing up and I
23:36
always used to think like do they not get bored playing the
23:39
same like music because what they do is think what they do is
23:43
they did thrash metal for a while and then in the He's just
23:47
like everyone else. There might call, let's
23:48
experiment. Do lots of stuff from us, like
23:50
cool. And then person, I think that
23:51
some of their best work and then going into the 2000s onwards.
23:55
It's like no, let's just make the same record every two years
23:58
for till we retire. Like that's stuck it and if they
24:01
do, damned if they don't, I find.
24:03
Because a lot of bands, get criticized for selling out and
24:06
for doing something and moving away from their sound than a,
24:10
similarly, a lot of bands. Get criticized for releasing the
24:12
same song over and over and over again.
24:15
Not really, it's To the artist, isn't it?
24:17
You want to keep your own Artistic integrity.
24:19
You have to do what you want. There are certainly artists out
24:23
there that I think, man. I really preferred their earlier
24:26
stuff. What all released an incredible
24:28
first album and then subsequently are releasing
24:31
chart-toppers. So it's just become a bit
24:33
unbearable. That kind of makes me sad
24:36
sometimes that will bit when I look at like Ed Sheeran stuff at
24:40
you which leads me onto my name is going to name names but I was
24:45
good at this leads on to my next question.
24:46
Ashton. But I just really want to throw
24:47
this one out there. Yeah.
24:48
Like I think we can both agree. Most people can agree.
24:51
His older stuff. Brilliant.
24:53
And then mazing. Yeah.
24:55
He's decided to go down the pop group, which I mean, he was
24:57
already pop anyway, but yeah, now, it's like really pop.
25:01
And I look at it two ways, I'll kind of, it's a shame that he's
25:05
moving away from that but the same time if he wants to do
25:09
that, why not? You know.
25:11
Yeah, absolutely showed it's his, it's his career, it's his
25:13
call. And I think there's obviously an
25:16
audience He's got like, you know, millions of streams on the
25:19
things that he's releasing and yeah, I don't think it's about
25:23
money with him though. Like we certain people, you can
25:25
tell maybe it is but with him I get the feeling.
25:28
It's not really about the money because he's made probably more
25:34
than some people will ever see in 50 lifetimes.
25:37
You know, it's I think at this point, it probably is like when
25:41
I think when you've made your money, thank you as much as you
25:45
need forever or what Whatever. Like I think it probably even
25:48
more becomes about the Artistry because then it's money is no
25:52
longer an issue. It's, you know, all the
25:54
acquisition of protecting yourself so to speak.
25:58
Then it's about, you know, challenging yourself and growing
26:01
and finding the fun in different areas of your life especially
26:05
from a creative standpoint. Absolutely, I think there is
26:09
something to be said though. I don't think it's in the case
26:11
of Ed Sheeran that labels and managers do tend to push you
26:14
towards a certain direction as well.
26:17
That if they say, well, can you make this sound like Julie /?
26:22
No, but I'll give it a go, I do. I do think that happens quite a
26:25
lot and we'll set it with Ed Sheeran.
26:29
I have heard. It said he is that.
26:30
He's a he's a wonderful go to work with and he's still just
26:33
incredibly generous as an artist.
26:35
I think he's very, I've heard it said, hmm.
26:39
Yes. It snows interesting because I
26:40
mean, you know, the opinions of the Insiders always be the real
26:45
truth of the matter, you know? Well whatever.
26:46
Ever me and you. And everyone else in the world
26:48
thinks or says, I mean it won't reflect what you know, that's
26:52
because that's that's the reality of the situation.
26:53
Is how easy are you to work with?
26:55
Yeah, or not. It's interesting.
26:57
It's interesting. You bring up labels because
27:00
because we'll get, we'll get to talk musical in a second, but I
27:02
just want to see your thoughts on this.
27:06
Are you looking to get signed by a major label?
27:09
Or are you looking to go independent, because pretty much
27:12
every musical guest I've had on the show?
27:15
Like all of them have kind of agreed in unison.
27:17
That it's better to go down the independent route, and I've
27:21
always suggested that if you're going to get anything from a
27:24
label now, get your distribution deal and then just yeah,
27:28
whatever. But what your thoughts, There
27:31
are certainly bonuses to both sides.
27:36
I think maintaining the control of your own work as a great
27:40
bonus to maintaining being independent and working at your
27:46
own pace as well. However, I do still think
27:50
management and labels they work in a way that is much quicker
27:57
than anyone. That then you can in your own,
27:59
you've got to do an awful lot of And Andy very well connected to
28:03
make quality stuff. When you, when you are
28:06
independent, and it's a lot of work and labels just somehow
28:11
they still have that, you know, they still have a fingers in
28:14
every pie and they're still able to push you as a product which
28:19
can feel horrible. But then if you're if they're
28:23
not pushing you as a product, you've got to push yourself as a
28:25
product which equally there's no escaping it for the time being,
28:29
I'm quite happy being independent and And I've no
28:31
desire to kind of reach out, you know, if it happens, it happens.
28:35
If it doesn't, it doesn't. I'm happy to go at my own pace.
28:38
So I don't want to place too much importance on that because
28:42
now nowadays more than ever, it's easier to distribute your
28:45
own music. It's easier to put yourself out
28:47
there that so did even from the early 2000s.
28:50
You know, it's changed a great deal.
28:52
So yeah, sitting on the fence there, I'd say no I know I get
28:58
your it's the professional answer.
29:01
Um, no base the truth. I honestly, because I know I've
29:04
always got a shot on label deals, but the same time.
29:06
I'm not saying they're completely not worth it.
29:09
I mean, I think generally it's all about the deal itself.
29:14
What you're actually getting as you say, how much your, because,
29:18
let's be real, if you're getting a label behind you, or an agency
29:22
or something like that, you're getting a lot of not only
29:25
financial backing, but like, as you say, access to connections,
29:30
you'll be fine. Faster getting you to the market
29:31
from the marketing and advertising perspective, it's
29:33
going to be a lot easier versus independent which as you said,
29:37
you know, you've you got to be driving that ship you know you
29:40
can hire people to do that for you but you've still got put a
29:43
lot of work into pushing that and getting that out there and
29:46
that takes time, whereas if you've got an already
29:48
established label that can be instantaneous.
29:52
Like, I don't know if you've heard of this band called.
29:55
I think the cool wet leg or something like a new artist.
29:59
Yeah. It's a new It's just that's just
30:01
popped up and they did that song on The Shea s'long on the Shea
30:05
slang or day long on the show, slung on the shapes time and
30:09
everyone's kind of saying yes, I know them.
30:11
I know them, but there's a dispute, isn't it?
30:14
Some people are saying that their industry plants and it
30:16
just it seems a little unfounded.
30:18
I'm not sure, but general, you know what, I want to talk about
30:22
it because I don't think I've spoken about this publicly.
30:25
I've only spoken to my friends about this but I think The
30:28
reason why people call them industry pants is not so much to
30:32
do with their sound, because you know what?
30:35
Good music is good music. It doesn't really matter if it's
30:37
a plant or not but they went from kind of apparently starting
30:43
in 2019 on a low level to suddenly skyrocketing in the
30:47
space of a year year and a half and that's when people get
30:51
suspicious and like hang on how have you managed?
30:53
Because like now they're playing one juice doors Holland BBC and
30:57
everywhere. It's like, they even know people
31:01
or they've got a bit of money behind them or they got really
31:04
lucky and reality of the situation is to get that.
31:08
Lucky means, you have to be very, very, very lucky.
31:13
You know, get that lucky in a global pandemic as well is
31:16
striking a lottery, what to be to be fair, they started getting
31:19
a bit of a buzz in 2020 but 21 is when their records of really
31:23
do the single story of started coming out.
31:24
So to be to be fair, the world is opened it up a bit more and
31:28
you know, That's then come out but it's, it has skyrocketed and
31:33
I don't know, I mean, it could just, it could really just be
31:36
luck and just people recognizing their talent because they are
31:39
very good. I mean, I was immediately
31:41
addicted. It reminded me of like old punk
31:44
Tunes at female pumpkins and stuff and I'm all for it.
31:47
But yeah. I think the reason why people
31:49
get so angry and accusatory is because they don't like this
31:51
idea of, you know, something being put together manufactured
31:55
Lee and you know, I mean, I've kind of been very nasty indeed.
31:58
Straight it really is. Unfortunately, I think there's a
32:02
great myth. That's anyone can make it if you
32:06
work hard enough and it and it is a bit of a myth I think.
32:10
And you know, even even the greatest selling artists, now
32:14
feel the call to Peddle this myth that oh, I'm self-made.
32:17
I'm self. But the reality is that they
32:19
were afforded a great deal of privileges far more than other
32:23
people and you just look at you do a bit of research into your
32:26
favorite artists and you see it. It's very rare that they have
32:30
come from nothing. My often particularly in recent
32:34
days there's far more of that than you then you initially
32:38
realize think people probably just want that transparency
32:42
though. If you're looking artists like
32:44
do Aleppo Lily Allen like they never hid the fact that as far
32:47
as I'm aware that they came from money.
32:50
I mean Libby's Allen Lily, Allen's father is a famous actor
32:54
so there's probably some connections there dually purse
32:56
family is just To get, that is a pretty well-off, businessman.
33:00
They're all like successful business people, you know?
33:04
And she just used those connections, give me zoo
33:08
sometimes. I think it's less to do with the
33:10
artist and it's more to do with the media.
33:11
That's was that's pushing that as well.
33:14
It's almost feel like they have to excuse the fact that they've
33:17
come from privileged backgrounds to sort of get around it.
33:20
They sort of. Yeah.
33:21
And that's happened in interviews.
33:23
That's and that's stupid. I don't understand that.
33:25
Like, who cares if you came from money or not?
33:28
Like, what if we took? If the product is music, right?
33:32
Then surely, the conversation should always be.
33:34
Is this good music or not? You know, is, which is
33:37
subjective. That's hard to answer.
33:40
But generally speaking. If another, a large majority of
33:43
people seem to agree, hey, this is good.
33:46
Then it's probably good. You know, everyone hates it,
33:50
then it's probably bad but, you know, it's it just boggles my
33:55
mind thing, a fake. If you do come from a from from
33:59
that kind of place and it is a, isn't a question of hiding it,
34:02
or maybe it's just a question of acknowledging it and saying,
34:04
like, yeah, I've done well it because it's, you know, people
34:08
who have done, well, it's not for lack of talent, they're
34:11
still very talented. It's just that they've been able
34:14
to do stuff that other underprivileged people haven't
34:16
been able to do and that's it. You could.
34:19
It's just a case of acknowledging it.
34:22
I think we should all acknowledge it.
34:24
We should it and it doesn't Take away from people's talent but
34:28
this is just the way the industry Works.
34:30
No, it's a behemoth. I just want to tie this up on
34:35
the music chart with just your thought overall thoughts on kind
34:40
of music Bright. Now generally in the charts
34:43
because I've got my opinions but I don't know if anyone really
34:45
cares about that but I just want to know kind of your thoughts
34:48
because you know, we've discussed what your music is
34:50
like it's somewhat of a throwback meets early 2000s.
34:54
Jiminy, how do you feel Modern music.
34:59
I think there's a lot of variety now as a lot of incessant choice
35:02
that we could kind of listen to what we want.
35:04
I don't really listen to the charts.
35:06
Again, I'll have it done. I took be honest, a lot of the
35:09
people that I kind of associate with this is the strangest thing
35:11
is that the charts of the charts.
35:13
But most people, I talked to, they are, I don't really listen
35:15
to that. Like really, then why are they
35:17
there? How are they doing?
35:18
So well, it's just because, you know, I just, that's just the
35:21
case, but I think, you know, I could be like every everyone
35:24
inside like a broken record our music.
35:26
These days just isn't cutting it for me.
35:29
Um, but it is for other people and that's important, I think.
35:33
And there is some stuff out of there.
35:35
I think that it is doing well, that is like musically.
35:39
Incredible. Like really very, very good
35:41
stuff. And so it is worth tuning in
35:44
from time to time. I think things are very varied
35:48
and I think the internet has helped with that that people are
35:51
allowed to listen to what they want whenever they want.
35:54
So it's an exciting time. I couldn't agree with you more.
35:58
I mean, I mean, again, I'm the same.
36:03
Like I don't really listen to the charts ever.
36:07
I just I don't know. I just find all this really good
36:10
music. I think what Spotify here's a
36:12
free plug. They're just really good at like
36:16
suggesting good music to you like on your existing playlist
36:19
they're like oh you might like this and I'm like yes I do.
36:22
Thank you Spotify. Yeah okay I thought I'd
36:25
sometimes they miss the mark massively.
36:28
I get I get sick. Stick like I'm not sometimes.
36:30
I get suggested the same songs. I thought I told you spot to
36:32
find. I don't want to hear this again,
36:35
but I really can't miss the mark.
36:37
Yeah, it just depends because sometimes you don't necessarily
36:40
want to listen to the stuff that you usually listen to sometimes
36:43
you wanna listen to something relaxing or different and it
36:47
spotify's. I'll see you like this.
36:48
Well, you might be into this group but yeah, this is, this is
36:52
why I made sure to kind of create a ton of playlists that I
36:57
did it. I did about you.
36:58
But when I was growing up, It was all rock and metal and we're
37:01
like, you know, that that was cut.
37:02
I only listen to that one style of music, and it's I didn't mind
37:06
other styles of music, but it wasn't to, I became a musician.
37:09
I really started to like, listen to Everything, I think own in.
37:12
Yeah. And then now, as an adult, I
37:15
listen to everything according to mood, so it's like, I've got
37:18
a classical playlist. My chill playlist, metal
37:23
playlist, hip hop play, like that etc, etc.
37:26
And then according to like decades and Stuff like that.
37:29
And I find that one aside that yeah, I found now and this is
37:34
that one of the things like with the internet and streaming that
37:37
there are great, great sides, great Boons to it, but I have
37:42
found my attention span is short and it used to be that, you
37:45
know, when we burned our CDs, I'd listen to the album all the
37:49
way through, and I wouldn't have a problem with it, but now I'm
37:51
just, like, don't like this song Skip, it's so much easier to
37:54
just say, I listened to the first 30 seconds of a song.
37:58
And I'll be like, this isn't cutting it for me and I'm
38:01
missing out. I'm probably really good songs
38:03
as a result of that and actually, you know, thinking
38:05
about it tick-tocks social media, everything kind of works
38:08
that way the way that music is going now is they tend to don't
38:12
like songs with an introduction. They like to cut straight in
38:15
with a verse or even the chorus. They don't like songs to build
38:18
up like Pink Floyd style. Do you know five-minute
38:22
introductions aren't cutting it for some reason people's
38:25
attention spans a far shorter but seating.
38:28
That's a That's an amazing point right there because if Pink
38:32
Floyd were to debut now in this current climate, they would
38:37
probably just disappear. They would be unknowns because
38:40
of that exact fact, your I'm I'm ashamed to say but I'm the same
38:44
like I if I'm listening to what I tend to do is just like skip
38:48
through all the songs and see if I like them and add, whatever
38:51
from their album and that isn't really how you should listen to
38:53
an album but not all. As you say I our attention span
38:57
is just changed completely know. So I I have to really force
39:00
myself to distance myself away from all this Tick-Tock on
39:04
online stuff and do stuff like what we're doing now, podcasts
39:07
long form content. But the reality is, for
39:11
instance, I'm always trying to push this and my live streams
39:14
and the longer form content. I do to the other platforms like
39:18
Instagram and Tick Tock, but the reality is those people aren't
39:20
going to come in. They don't want to sit and
39:22
listen to an hour or whatever of people talking and and the
39:27
danger is you start to write What songs to fit into that
39:30
format, which you really don't want to do some time.
39:34
I mean, I never really done it myself.
39:36
I've always tried to be like, no, I want it to sound like
39:38
this. I want it to sound this way.
39:39
In particular, people writing songs to fit in with Trends and
39:43
it's you see your music videos. People create Tick-Tock dances
39:46
with in their music videos that they think people will be able
39:48
to recreate. So they got, let's get this
39:49
fire, let's get this fire, it's a business, it's a business
39:52
people need to make money and that's the way that it's
39:54
happening now. And it's always been that way to
39:56
be honest. I got to say, I Normally I go
40:01
with the flow and I'm not resistant to it by m resistant
40:04
to this stuff because I got to say, I think tick-tocks days are
40:07
numbered. And the reason that I say this
40:11
is that whenever you're building a brand of any description,
40:15
anything you're building something.
40:17
You have to think long-term you can't do this is one of the
40:21
reasons why I don't create content.
40:22
That's like daily, you know, like people use.
40:24
Sometimes you sad like, YouTube channels, where they do daily
40:28
updates, and I just thought that's just exhausting having to
40:30
do stuff like that. You know, I'll jump on things
40:34
when it makes sense for me or sometimes.
40:37
You know, if I think of something funny for a particular
40:40
thing that's going on like a, for example.
40:44
I recently started doing this kind of the Christian rap show
40:49
and it's basically just like a series of different voices that
40:53
I can do. And everyone characters, I'm
40:56
still establishing the point of it but it's fun, I don't know.
40:59
And it's it's basically me saying hey please employ me as a
41:02
voice actor because look at all these voices.
41:04
I can do. Yeah.
41:06
Anyway there's this person, I don't know what who she is.
41:11
Celebrity Molly. A method of us, some sort of.
41:15
I think she was on love Island. I don't know.
41:17
I don't watch that show, but she was on that.
41:19
Yeah, anyway, she was on this podcast, the Diary of CEO, which
41:23
is great. You should go check that out and
41:26
she said something like, oh well there's 24 hours in a day.
41:32
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know this.
41:34
Yeah, it's, it's got the world kind of or not the world, but
41:37
the whole of the UK kind of pissed because, you know, it's
41:40
someone in a privileged position telling everyone all Oh well,
41:43
it's the same old poem so there's no excuse.
41:45
Basically that's the point. It's what we were saying
41:47
earlier. Yeah.
41:48
And I took that and I put that into a video and I thought, but
41:51
I tried I tried to do a spin on it, it wasn't just me commenting
41:54
on that was me. Trying to kind of use my
41:56
existing format to comment on a thing that's going on right now
42:00
and so you know what I mean? So even years from now, it will
42:04
still work and be something that's interesting to go back
42:07
to. And that's what I always think
42:08
about is creating content that Is like Evergreen, I learned
42:14
this in my marketing, but it's like create stuff that, you
42:19
know, you can come back to you and years from now.
42:20
So music, perfect. You know, people will be
42:22
listening to your music 10 years from now and it will still be as
42:26
impactful as it was the first time they listen to it.
42:29
So it's brilliant but things like Tick-Tock.
42:31
I mean I see videos that I made like six months ago.
42:34
And I'm like, wow, I just chose old and crusty at this point.
42:37
Yeah. In this entire playlist, some
42:42
formats created. Under one Trend and it's sort of
42:46
it's mad to think about, isn't it?
42:47
Yeah, I think there's going to be shifts like, you know,
42:50
because obviously we grew up our generation grew up with the
42:55
internet, but we can't, you know, we were born in the 90s
42:58
and we grew up in the, in the, to mid-2000s mostly with having
43:02
technology, but it didn't like take over our lives enough.
43:07
Really fast wasn't essential, it was essential for us to have
43:10
social media. Now, it is essential because
43:12
people organize it. We'll have work pages there that
43:14
you're supposed to organize your shifts on and events and
43:18
everything is held on that and I resent it, but I know less and
43:20
less people, our age, you are actually actively using
43:22
Facebook. Now, it's just boring of this
43:26
point. I was discussing this, with,
43:28
with a friend of mine last night.
43:29
Actually, a how basically far few of us are using Facebook
43:32
than we used to. Because what I think happened
43:33
was we went to UNI and we introduced our parents to it and
43:39
our parents introduced it to their parents and we At Uni,
43:43
just start to go, right? Well, I'm not going to, I'm not
43:45
going to update my status now because I don't want Grandma to
43:47
know. I went to a party and so it's
43:49
basically it's like using. But funnily enough, we went on
43:54
to talk about Snapchat as well, which I, you know, when snatch
43:57
up was around, we were using it quite actively and it was just
44:00
like a photo-sharing app and it still is I think, but I
44:04
certainly don't use it now. And I feel really old talking
44:06
about this, but it's like, I don't know anyone.
44:08
My age are using SnapChat, we just stopped using it and then
44:11
the generation Started using it again.
44:14
So it's just another social media thing, I'm clueless about,
44:17
I think what happened there from what I understand is that was
44:21
repurposing, so the and continued and then people
44:24
started using it for different things.
44:25
So originally people started using it for like more crude
44:30
things. Like it was an early version of
44:32
only fans from what I understand the image has disappeared after.
44:36
Like yeah I am but yeah it just got repurposed three different
44:40
generation which is cool. You know at least it can Tin
44:43
you'd and sometimes that happens.
44:45
I think, when you look at, like, will be a good example of
44:49
something that that was repurposed.
44:53
Maybe LinkedIn would be a good example because LinkedIn is
44:56
still about making business connections and stuff.
44:59
But these days, it just seems to be an endless feed of everyone
45:03
going. Oh, look at how great we are.
45:05
Look at what we did. Oh, look at, you know, post
45:08
inspirational quote here but it's all yes.
45:11
Yeah. And you see Originally when it
45:13
first started it was about Connecting People same as
45:16
Facebook really but things are not in s, you know, inevitably
45:20
change over time and become repurposed and I think that's
45:24
where Tick-Tock might disappear because I can't see how they can
45:27
move forward. Originally, it was like a
45:29
spiritual successor to vine and now it's kind of just, I don't
45:34
know like how often can doing Tick-Tock bounces really be how
45:38
interesting can that continue to be.
45:40
It's I don't know. Earlier started off as a music
45:45
app dinner. It was a, it was a dancing up.
45:49
People would just musically, that was 10 years ago.
45:53
I think they coexisted, I can't remember.
45:55
But then, they joined, I could be getting this totally wrong,
46:00
but yeah, it has repurposed to some extent.
46:04
But like you said, I don't think there isn't a plan for longevity
46:08
there. We'll see.
46:09
They keep updating it, the keep throwing a new things, but as
46:11
long as those guidelines, Remain vague, you know, people are
46:15
going to make the transfer. Let's move it forward.
46:20
What are your kind of originally?
46:22
This was going to be, what are your goals for 2022 or music
46:26
goals? But I kind of want to know just
46:28
in a nutshell. What are your career goals?
46:30
What are you looking to achieve, not just in the next year, but
46:34
the next five years or something.
46:38
It's a good question, isn't it? And I'd like to be the type of
46:41
person that says, I've got it all.
46:42
Planned out and this is what I'm going to do but as this pandemic
46:46
has shown us is that like you can't plan for things like that?
46:48
It shown us that even the safest jobs are at risk of completely
46:53
going I'm very happy to keep releasing music to keep making
46:58
music and as long as there's an audience for it, there, I'll
47:02
I'll keep making it in terms of aspirations and things.
47:06
It will be great to do more gigs.
47:07
And it will be great to get a bigger audience to play too.
47:11
But I don't want to place too much importance on that.
47:15
To be honest II. Really enjoy the creative side
47:18
of things and I really enjoy interacting with people, but if
47:23
there's one thing the last sort of Of two years have taught us,
47:27
I can't place too much importance on capital E and
47:31
that, that the, the Sham of of it.
47:36
If you follow what I mean, I'm not being too vague there, we
47:40
missed that word. Unfortunately, because of the
47:42
connection quality. What was the word that you said?
47:44
There? We're missing capitalism?
47:46
Capitalism work? That's what I thought.
47:49
The Sham of capitalism did. That's a podcast right there it
47:54
is. Anyway, and now with the reason
47:57
I asked you is because you, I wouldn't call it a problem, but
48:00
you have the same thing that I have, which is wearing many
48:04
hats. You know, like I in my life, I'm
48:07
an aspiring actor, musician, podcaster, blah, blah, blah,
48:11
blah, blah, and same with you, you're a musician, actor, and a
48:17
comedian. I mean you said, you know, you
48:19
graduated from University with acting.
48:22
You've also starred in Netflix's Alienists.
48:26
I believe start. I was in it.
48:28
Yes. Hey you were in it and you acted
48:32
there for you started. Yeah.
48:35
You can you can you can catch me gyrating in the background of
48:39
other more important actors shots.
48:40
It's I'd play and an underage cross-dressing prostitute in
48:45
1890s New York That Old Chestnut.
48:48
Did you get any dialogue? No dialogue there.
48:52
No dialogue. But you can see from the
48:54
physical world. I was doing in the background
48:56
and more than made up for it. See that's the problem.
48:59
I have as well with movies and feel because I've done a bit of
49:02
professional acting work as well as an extra and it's it's
49:07
frustrating because you desperately want to act properly
49:10
because it's the fun of acting. That's why you do it right back
49:13
to perform but being an extra is just the most painfully dull
49:18
thing ever. It can be fun in those small
49:21
moments where you do have to, like reacts to something but
49:24
generally Speaking your you are, you're in the background, you're
49:27
not the focal point, so you're not really on screen.
49:29
And as far as, I understand from the credits perspective, unless
49:33
you get dialogue, you're not considered, you know, that's a
49:37
funny with with the airiness to it.
49:39
There was extensive choreography that we had to follow.
49:42
There was a whole group of us all playing these plugging a
49:47
show now. Yeah, but we were playing.
49:51
It's based on the novel The alienist and we were playing
49:54
these Brothel workers essentially.
49:57
And so we had to deal with that quite sensitively as only when a
49:59
lot of us there were actually under 18 and oh wow, okay we did
50:04
this. Extensive choreography around,
50:06
are some incredible. They built this incredible set
50:09
so a lot of attention to detail was there.
50:11
We couldn't throw away any moments but it's well they say
50:15
it's a good little series. I it's worth a watch.
50:18
Overall. What would you say?
50:19
We're your takeaways from that experience.
50:22
You know your personal experience about Man, that's a
50:31
good. So it's like for me it's a job.
50:35
I do it. I do it as a job and sometimes
50:38
it can be frustrating. And I think it's it can be
50:43
exhausting as well. You're up at a really early
50:46
times and, you know, there's a lot of waiting around.
50:48
There's a lot of Before you even seen.
50:53
And then when they do get to shooting things, inevitably go
50:55
wrong, they always do, and you've got to find a way to work
50:58
around things. And I tell you, actually, I did
51:03
another, I was in true Seekers and for that particular show the
51:11
lines were changed completely from the first script that I was
51:15
given on the day. And I was there like very, very
51:20
early in the morning and say oh by the way, we've changed the
51:22
script as I write, and not only that but I hadn't rehearsed this
51:27
seam of the director at all, we haven't rehearsed anything and
51:30
it It's just we'll just shoot it.
51:31
Get it done. And that was it at the end of
51:33
the day. So I think you've got to be
51:35
flexible to these changes and you've just got to take them on
51:38
the chin and get through it like be okay, well we'll do this or
51:41
try our best and don't be afraid of asking questions as well
51:46
because you need to know your job and you need to.
51:49
So so I wasn't prepared. I was thinking of doing this is
51:51
this okay with you? And they'd be like yeah, sure or
51:53
no. No, just do this.
51:55
So yeah, I hope that's not too wishy-washy.
51:59
An answer. Appreciate it.
52:02
You said something interesting there which kind of reminds me
52:04
of the question. I miss before that was trying to
52:06
allude to you said that you saw this as a job which kind of to
52:13
me implies. That's how you see just acting
52:15
in general that for you. It's work.
52:17
It's not necessarily like with music where it's your passion
52:21
and what you love, what is both I think for me it's both.
52:24
I think one of the things that I found is like I went to drama
52:27
school, I trained as an actor and when I went to drama, School
52:31
acting was my passion and it still is to an extent but it is
52:33
unfortunate that to be an actor. You actually have to rely on a
52:37
lot of people to give you the opportunity to act whereas with
52:40
music. I find I can do that without
52:43
anybody's external interest invested in me, I can continue
52:47
to make music as an actor. All I can really do is read
52:50
through a play every once in a while.
52:52
If I wanted to upload something, it wouldn't really get an
52:54
audience. You know, like movie scenes or
52:56
monologues, don't tend to get the same audience.
52:58
That music does this. Just The way that it works.
53:02
So I find it easier to work as a musician without earning
53:08
anything. And as an actor, although I'm
53:10
still very, very passionate about it.
53:12
And I get a lot of joy out of it.
53:14
The jobs are few and far between at least at this stage in my
53:16
career. It's, you know, I'm still
53:18
auditioning. Acting is 99% projection,
53:20
anyway, it's true. So from a kind of Life
53:25
perspective in music for you, is the main focus?
53:28
These other things in your life comedy and acting are things you
53:32
enjoy doing World. Keep doing but music is that's
53:34
the goal. That's the EM.
53:36
Um, I wouldn't even say that to be honest, I'd say that it
53:40
changes and you know, if I'm given if I'm given an
53:43
opportunity to act in something, I will throw myself into that
53:46
role and I will absolutely concentrate on it.
53:49
But for the time being because I'm currently not doing anything
53:52
though, I'm auditioning music is At the moment, my main drive
53:56
it's what gets me up in the morning and we'll, all right,
53:58
I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that,
54:01
especially, you know, because streaming exists and people can
54:05
stream things. But whilst there's a virus, you
54:09
know, out there in the world, not a lot of plays are being put
54:15
on or plays are being canceled this, there's still an active
54:18
audience for music. Whoever actually.
54:23
Yeah. So you performed in the
54:26
award-winning, play the ferryman.
54:28
Oh yes. Yeah.
54:28
And I wanted to ask you a little bit about this experience, and
54:31
also, how stage acting Compares with on-screen acting in your
54:36
opinion? Sure.
54:43
So I would say actor training is based on theater and theater
54:50
practitioners. At least, my training was not a
54:53
lot of emphasis on screen training.
54:57
We had a week or two week, long screen Workshop.
55:01
In fact, when did I graduate in 2016?
55:03
I think the industry has changed a lot since then and you know
55:08
it's not too, it's 56 years but it's not it's not you know it's
55:13
not a great amount of time but the approach the industry has
55:18
taken to screen especially things like self tapes now are
55:21
commonplace. But when I graduated they
55:22
weren't that common and you actually had to fight casting
55:25
directors like listener and I can't get down for an audition.
55:27
Can you see a self-tapping to be like no?
55:29
No, no we want to see you in person.
55:31
Now it's changed and I think the pandemic has helped.
55:33
I think that's people say well no we understand.
55:36
Yeah, get us off. Take them look a holiday or
55:38
something to be guaranteed to get an audition request.
55:40
That's that's what it used to be, but yes, I digress.
55:43
I'm on a tangent stage acting is different from scream, screen
55:49
acting in that. You have to bear in mind, the
55:53
size of the theater that you're in.
55:54
You have to bear in mind, projection.
55:57
You have to bear in mind that your actions can be read by
56:00
someone. I'm way way way at the back of
56:02
the theater screen. Acting things are very very
56:05
contained more naturalistic but it's still the same principle in
56:09
that. You have to be feeling it.
56:12
Not showing it do not remote. It's the same principle and
56:18
training. I think allows you to experiment
56:20
with how you get there, and the different techniques that allow
56:23
you to key in to the role that you're playing.
56:27
Thank you for sharing, man, that's awesome.
56:30
Just the on ya off the comfort that, did you have any kind of
56:34
advice for aspiring actors on, based on everything you've
56:37
learned That's another thing I learned give up.
56:43
No, I'm joking. Don't you sell for the agony of
56:47
this, man? It's hard.
56:49
I can't like, I can't bullshit. You and say it's a dream job.
56:53
It's hard. You've really got to work it and
56:55
I think, everyone, believe me, everyone is under the illusion
56:58
that they're special and that that won't apply to them.
57:01
You will go through that. People will say to you man,
57:03
you've got a great future, you've got this, you've got
57:05
this, but inevitably, you will get rejected.
57:08
And it's like we were saying there's a myth.
57:10
Out there that there's a ladder that you can climb.
57:12
And that one successful role will lead to the next will lead
57:15
to the next. It is a myth, it will like you
57:19
will inevitably, they'll be like of work, and a lot of the actors
57:21
out. There are very, very privileged,
57:23
they know people and all those come from families, it's hard
57:28
work. But when you get to do it, it's
57:29
wonderful because you're actually working alongside
57:32
people. It's incredible.
57:33
You working together to create something tenacity is the key
57:39
to, it. You've really Got to love what
57:40
you do when you've got to keep doing it.
57:42
If it's in your bones, you have to, you have to keep doing it
57:46
and throw yourself into it. Don't make the end goal.
57:49
Being, I want to get famous or I want to be in loads of films,
57:52
make the active love of Performing your goal.
57:55
If you're doing it, and you're living it and you're living it,
57:58
regardless of whether you're running very little, it doesn't
58:01
matter. You're being an actor and get a
58:04
part-time job. Do that.
58:05
Absolutely. Get a part-time job earn
58:07
something because you need to live and you need to make a You
58:10
need to pay your bills but as long as with that money, whilst
58:14
you supporting yourself, is still being creative.
58:16
That's important. That's what you need to live
58:18
for. I'd say, thanks so much for
58:20
sharing that appreciate it. Let's talk about your comedy.
58:26
You have a fantastic sense of humor.
58:28
I love it, which is evident from.
58:32
All of your videos on Tick Tock, which made me think that you're
58:35
a comedian and you are a comedian.
58:37
You've actually done it professionally.
58:38
Done stand. I have yeah.
58:40
But how did you get into comedy initially like where did that
58:43
Journey begin for you? When I was a kid, I used to make
58:47
loads of videos, my brother comedy videos and stuff that
58:49
will sketches, they still exist out there in The Ether.
58:52
We've got loads of little DVDs and VHS tapes of me.
58:56
Oh wow, hugely embarrassing. But whatever old.
59:00
I'm probably going to upload some but please, dude, that
59:02
would be brilliant. Yeah, so yeah, it kind of
59:06
started there and then I was really passionate about various
59:10
see. Thumbs and stuff.
59:12
I absolutely growing up in the 90s.
59:14
Father, Ted was incredibly funny.
59:18
Unfortunately, you know, the creator of that we can train our
59:21
can't sing his Praises but some The Simpsons as well, or, you
59:27
know, american comedies, hugely significant Fawlty Towers
59:32
classic British comedies there as well.
59:36
Leakage gentlemen, MX is always was massive.
59:41
Local. Are you local?
59:43
Yeah. So just things like that.
59:46
Grew up watching those red dwarf as what?
59:48
That was. Like a yeah age.
59:50
When we were kids of comedies that were coming out that quite
59:55
yeah. Really influential you something
59:57
interesting. Actually the of that cough like
1:00:00
when we were growing up in the 90s and 2000's, there was a lot
1:00:02
of replaying of those old sitcoms 60s 70s 80s excetera.
1:00:06
So like for instance I discovered the the young ones
1:00:09
which I adore Yes, from the 80s and I find those and of course,
1:00:14
that Only Fools and Horses or porridge open all hours I could
1:00:18
go on and on but I don't see as much of a buzz about those old
1:00:24
comedies anymore, you know? I mean sometimes you get people
1:00:27
talking about stuff that came out in the 2000s and stuff, you
1:00:30
know. People still go on about Peep
1:00:31
Show which to be fair they should because Pete Rose amazing
1:00:34
but at the same time it's like I don't know.
1:00:38
It kind of feels like summer. That's lost in a way.
1:00:40
I know. Maybe it's just me.
1:00:41
I don't really watch TV much anymore but yeah, it's yeah.
1:00:48
I know what you mean? I don't II certainly, I still
1:00:51
think they're a great car. Have you seen stuff like Flats?
1:00:54
No, I haven't seen that yet. That is brilliant.
1:00:58
Absolutely brilliant. Yeah, I don't I always feel it
1:01:01
too much for you, but absolutely get on, get on for Channel 4.
1:01:06
Is it for OT? Still show for it is still a
1:01:09
thing for ya. Get on that watch that it's
1:01:12
absolutely brilliant fantastic. But yeah I did do it.
1:01:17
I did you stand up for about a year and I kind of fell out of
1:01:21
love with stand up a little bit because it felt some bitch
1:01:25
shallow. It's some I didn't like the idea
1:01:28
of just standing up in front of a mic and telling jokes for sake
1:01:30
of telling jokes. I'd like there to be a narrative
1:01:34
or a purpose to it. I like character.
1:01:37
Comedy in that sense, or a show, which is difficult to do within
1:01:40
that five minutes and when you're in that circuit, you're
1:01:43
seeing the same people perform a lot of the same stuff over and
1:01:46
over and over again and it gets quite hard to watch Comedy it
1:01:50
when you're in when you're in the thick of it because you
1:01:52
start to be like you start to predict the jokes and you start
1:01:56
to get like right. Well what you're doing there is
1:01:58
you're repeating a word loads and loads of times because
1:02:01
that's funny like Alan Partridge saying Dan Dan, Dan or Stewie
1:02:04
Griffin going mum. You're doing the I'm joke, and
1:02:08
just it gets here. I just start to.
1:02:10
So I kind of flipped that and started to go down the route of
1:02:14
more theatrical comedy and character comedy.
1:02:18
An alternative comedy harder to do on the open mic circuit
1:02:22
though. Yeah, I mean, I've never ever
1:02:26
considered myself a comedian. I still don't but people have
1:02:28
occasionally said Oh you mean funny stuff you should consider
1:02:31
doing that? I'm like absolutely not but I
1:02:34
would love to do a sketch I think.
1:02:37
There. I could be good because I could
1:02:39
act and I like that process of creating characters, as you say,
1:02:43
like some sort of narrative, it's brilliant, it's so fun.
1:02:48
But I just want to pick up on something that you just said
1:02:50
that because you said that, you know, you're more interested in
1:02:53
the narratives. And I mean, yeah, I'm not a fan
1:02:56
of comedians that just go and make jokes.
1:02:58
I prefer the comedians. That tell a story, like, Dave
1:03:01
Chappelle or Bill Hicks or something like that.
1:03:05
Where it's kind of The joke comes later when you've gone
1:03:09
through a certain degree of telling a story, like, are you,
1:03:12
do you still like that as well? I would you consider maybe doing
1:03:16
shows again with in that format? I don't think so, so, not like
1:03:23
that. I mean, they excellent at what
1:03:24
they do, they're brilliant at what they do.
1:03:26
But I don't think that sort of my style.
1:03:30
I might better be And a narrative art that isn't sort of
1:03:37
sounds horrible, dictated. I I like it.
1:03:41
I like there to be moments of meta theatrical moments if that
1:03:46
makes sense, you know? Yeah yeah it's sort of things
1:03:51
that aren't just telling a story things that are maybe showing a
1:03:55
story or think work is encrypted you see inside.
1:03:59
Mmm. Is Ray about that was released
1:04:05
last year. Yes, it was because we're 2022
1:04:08
now, aren't we? Yeah, it was released last year
1:04:10
um, and just incredible. He completely rewrote the format
1:04:15
of a comedy special just absolutely incredible Insight is
1:04:18
it felt very much like a fringe, show the Edinburgh Fringe show
1:04:21
in terms of that theatricality and very, very personable and
1:04:26
personal issues that he was bringing.
1:04:29
And I think that I'd Love to get into more stuff like that,
1:04:32
although not that because it's he's done it now.
1:04:34
He's perfected it and I couldn't I couldn't touch that so my own
1:04:38
way of doing that. Fair enough.
1:04:40
Yeah, I mean, I think that's probably the most important
1:04:44
aspect of this is being yourself.
1:04:47
I just, I don't know when I look at your comedy.
1:04:48
I'm like, there's something there.
1:04:50
I don't know what it is but I feel it.
1:04:52
It's this. So there's something there,
1:04:53
maybe a show, maybe something, I mean, that's the same thing.
1:04:56
I'm trying to do with this new show, format them poking around
1:05:00
with some sort of going. Maybe something can happen here.
1:05:03
If I just keep pushing the button and just seeing how
1:05:05
people react to it, and maybe we can make something, and I think
1:05:08
that's when the best things come alive.
1:05:09
When you Pushing the boat and seeing people's reactions
1:05:14
anyway. Absolutely, I'm going to hit you
1:05:16
with something bit more serious. What's the biggest life lesson
1:05:21
that you've ever learned tell the people that you love that,
1:05:24
you love them, show them that you care for them and show them
1:05:30
every day, you know, be be be there for them.
1:05:32
Listen to people be kind to people, you know, because
1:05:39
there's a lot going on there. You might not necessarily
1:05:41
realize. And in general, try to try to
1:05:48
find moments of joy in your life.
1:05:52
Yeah. Yeah.
1:05:55
If we can agree moment, thank you so much for that as we draw
1:05:59
to a close food today. Do you have any upcoming
1:06:02
projects or some final thoughts that you'd like to leave on
1:06:04
distance with? I do have a I've got a new album
1:06:08
coming out. At some point, we will see.
1:06:11
It's obviously, it's taking a lot longer than I'd have liked
1:06:14
to to get it off the ground, but hopefully, it will be worth it.
1:06:18
So keep your eyes peeled for that.
1:06:20
They'll be more updates coming along the way.
1:06:23
And hopefully like, We said like permitted plague permitting
1:06:29
there will be shows to we'll see but yeah other than that,
1:06:35
nothing much else. Excellent.
1:06:37
Well I want to say a massive. Thank you Peter for being on the
1:06:39
show. It's been an up.
1:06:40
So thank you for having me. Thank you.
1:06:41
It's been really nice chatting and wishing you all the best in
1:06:44
the future and YouTube. And to the listings of the
1:06:48
Christian re podcast, as always, thank you so much for listening.
1:06:51
Be safe, be well, and I'll see you in the next one.