Latest / The Impossible Life / 340. Stop Wasting Your Suffering - Dr. Robi Sonderegger

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340. Stop Wasting Your Suffering - Dr. Robi Sonderegger · The Impossible Life

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: That's impossible. Let me tell you what I believe. That
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: your weakness is not your technique. Yes!
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Yes!
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Don't think you are. Know you are. The Impossible Life Podcast.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, you're sitting on a winning lottery ticket.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: An idea that is fully formed, fully understood.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: That sticks.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: This is the Impossible Life Podcast. because Nick and I
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: are attempting to live impossible lives. What we know is
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: that nothing is impossible. So instead of using impossible as
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: an excuse to not try, we'll use the pursuit of
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: impossible as an accelerant for greatness. If something's never been
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: done before, that just means it's unexplored. If they tell
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: you it's too hard, it's just waiting to be simplified.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: Impossible is a default label, used by uncourageous people, unwilling
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: to take a risk.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: The real truth is this.
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: The solution to any impossible task starts with this question.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: If I had to, what would it take? Welcome to
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: another episode of the Impossible Life Podcast. I'm your co-host,
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Nick Surface, and I'm looking across at a man so
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: used to suffering, he thinks a mattress is a character flaw.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: That's right, friends, the former Navy SEAL. Garrett Unklebach, a
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: man who went through buds three times just to make
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: absolutely sure he hated himself enough.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: I do not hate myself. However, I require no comforts.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Well, you, yeah. And thank God you don't because, uh, yeah,
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: that buds three times common is getting rolled twice. And
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: as you told me, there's always one phase where the
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: class acts up and you got that class for every
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: single phase.
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  Speaker 3: So, uh, Goggins is the one who brags about how
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: many hell weeks he went through, but I certainly can
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: brag about the amount of pool comp time that I got.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: You are pretty much a mermaid, the amount of time
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: you spent underwater getting beat up at this point. I
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: have a watered lung. It's merman, pups. It's your watered lung. Anyways,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: I'm going to keep moving on. Fortunately, we have somebody
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: else in here to, I don't know, diffuse the tension
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: and do it expertly so, because for the fourth time, Dr.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Robbie Sondrager is in the house with us. So glad
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: to have you back. Four-time guest. Four-time guest. I actually
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: have that sound effect. I could have had it ready,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: but do we need a Dr. Robbie sound effect? I
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: think for your fifth time, we'll honor you with your
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: own sound in the soundboard. So we've had Dr. Robbie on. Man,
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: we talked about gratitude. We've talked about parenting. We have
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: talked about, I'm trying to even remember.
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: My favorite quote from, I still remember it from the
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: very first time that Dr.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Robbie was on. I've quoted it so many times.
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: Where he said, gratitude is like cycle power for your brain.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: You know, when your technology is not working, 99% of
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: the time, turn it off, turn it back on.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: The reset.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: And you said that gratitude is cycle power for your brain.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: I was like, that's so amazing. The video of that
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: is one of my favorite things because this is going
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: to be self-deprecating, but it's actually true. Garrett gets things
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: usually quicker than I do. And so you were still
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: in the middle of saying that. And I was like
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: hanging on your every word because we had a bad connection.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: And he's like, He leans back and just shakes his
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: head like, oh my gosh, that's so good. And I'm
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: just sitting there like waiting for you to finish. And
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: then I'm like, oh wow. So it was like, I
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: was on the technical delay and he had it like
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: straight away. So yeah, and then we had you on
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: to talk about beliefs. And so you're just a blessing
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: to us. We're very fortunate that you come out and
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: see us at church. I elevate life regularly. And so
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: you were in town. We always hang out whenever you're
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: here because our daughters are friends and we're friends. And
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: so I was like, man, let's have you on the podcast.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: And I had a plan. I had a plan. And
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: then we had a conversation that just altered the plan.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: So I'm really looking forward to getting into this We're
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: going to get a ton of new listeners. So I'm
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: just going to give you a quick background on Dr.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: Robbie Saundrager because this is not just our friend that
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: happens to do some psychology and he's down the street
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: from us. Dr. Robbie is like internationally renowned. If there's
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: a bad place in the world where things are going
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: on that are messed up, Dr. Robbie is the guy
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: they call in.
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  Speaker 2: I'm probably the cause of the bad thing.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, only if they've had to hear your jokes. No,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. I shouldn't say that because my wife
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: tells me all the time how not funny I am. Dr.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: Robbie is funnier than you are.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: You don't know anything. All right, so I'm going to
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: go into his official bio and let's keep rolling. Dr.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: Robbie Sondrager is an internationally recognized clinical psychologist whose missional
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: mandate is to equip and empower the body of Christ
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  Speaker 1: and raise up next generation leaders. As a keynote speaker,
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: organizational consultant, and policy advisor over the past 25 years, Dr.
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  Speaker 1: Robbie has been known for taking psychology from the front
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  Speaker 1: line to the home front. He works with churches, governments,
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: humanitarian organizations, educational institutes, and corporations around the world. Over
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: the past decade, his presentations and empowerment programs have reached
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: millions of people in 40 nations. Isn't it like two
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: and a half million in 43 countries at this point?
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: Two and a half million is Africa. So there's lots
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: of nations in Africa. And I love Africa. Big shout
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: out to everyone who's listening from Africa. You are my people.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: We have some South Africa. South Africa in particular, we
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: have people down there. Come on. We looked at the
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: map the other day, and we were kind of surprised
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: how many different countries. But there's more in South Africa
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: than in other parts of the world. the English speaking.
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: We were one of the top Christian podcasts in multiple
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: Eastern European countries, which was cool to see.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: We were number three in Christianity in Nigeria, of all places.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: Come on. I got this notification. I said, gee, we're
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: number three in spirituality podcasts. And you look back, I
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: was like, in Nigeria. So I was like, let's go.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: So it's like, awesome.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: So anyway, so the breadth of your work ranges from
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: being a private consultant to heads of state to humanitarian
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: ambassador to You've authored several evidence-based empowerment curriculums. You've been
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: translated into numerous languages. Your culturally sensitive programs are currently
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: being utilized across six continents. And you're published in both
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: peer-reviewed international scientific journals and in popular press. You currently
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: reside on the Sunshine Coast in Queensland, Australia.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: Someone has to.
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  Speaker 1: You are the father of five nations. And you are
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: passionate about marriage, family, mental health, and the kingdom of God.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Only six continents? Slacker. Yeah.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Antarctica is still yesterday.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: How do we get you to Antarctica?
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm thinking of starting a church down there. I'm
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: going to call it Chill Song. Oh. And the Penguins
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Need Raging.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, man. Hold on.
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: That's a funny, that's a good, like, dad pastor.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: You know, if that would have been my joke, Garrett
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: would have just been like, you're not funny, move on.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: So anyways. But yeah, I love that. So I just
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: want to dive in. So just, I want to give
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: that again, because I don't think we did it the
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: past two times you were on. I just want to
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: remind people, and I'm not trying to make you uncomfortable,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: but you're genuinely, your resume is, there's not many people
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: that are doing what you're doing. You're like special forces
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: for psychology in the same way that Garrett would go
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: into the worst places in the world to accomplish an mission.
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  Speaker 3: I would say he's more like Jason Bourne for psychology.
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  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: With my multiple passports. Exactly. No, the truth is, look,
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  Speaker 2: I'm just an average, ordinary Aussie bloke, and I just
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: find myself walking through doors that have been open for me.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: I'm really honestly, you know, to anyone's listening, I'm no
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: one special, but I'm so greatly honored that I get
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: to do what I do. Like I sit on the
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: edge of my seat sometimes just scratching my beer gun,
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: not that I have one, but like, how did this
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: even happen? Like, how are we here? And God just
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: seems to open up the doors at the top level
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: of governments and we just walk through. And so all
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: I'm doing is walking through the doors that God opens.
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  Speaker 2: And I'm just so honored and privileged to be a
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  Speaker 2: part of what He's up to. He doesn't need to
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: use me, but He loves to include me in what
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: He's doing. And that to me is the greatest honor.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I know how genuine that is when you
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: say that, because we'll talk and you'll share stories and
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: you're like, oh, I just got this call out of nowhere.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, what are you kidding me? So that
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: really is the case of you're just a faithful man
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: Do you, I mean, did you ever see this? Like,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: we're going to dive in here on the top, but
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: I'm just curious because we always talk about purpose. Did
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: you ever see, was this like an avid pursuit or
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: did the dots connect behind afterwards?
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: I wish I had a really good story, but I don't.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, I love travel and I love cultures and
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: I seem to find myself traveling and interacting with various
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: different cultures and learning different languages and getting my head
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: into the humanity of why do we do what we do?
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: And especially as it relates to culture, why do they
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: do what they do? And how have they taken that
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: particular spin? And there's so much that we can learn
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: from other people, other cultures, other nations. It's just like
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: hanging out with you guys. You're so different to me.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: And here in Texas, especially. I mean, Texas is so funny.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: I'd go so far as to say, I love Texas.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: Texas is epic. It's almost like the Australia of America.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: But there's so much to learn from things that are
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: not familiar to you. And a little bit like stepping
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: out of your comfort zone, there's lots to be learned
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: when you're uncomfortable.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And you've just always had that in you, huh?
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: It's just a curiosity, really.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: What a coincidence. It's almost like God gives us the
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: innermost desires of our heart for a reason, right? I'm sorry,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: I just had one purpose question. Okay, so let's dive
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: in here, because I asked you this question yesterday. So
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: you gotta understand, I'm not gonna say everywhere you're traveling,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: but you are like... I'm not talking like, oh, he
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: went to a few countries in Africa once. You're like, well,
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: six continents, that says it all. And like, and that's, that's,
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: you're still going around to numerous continents all the time.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: So you're going everywhere. You're seeing this broad swath of
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: the world. And I asked you this question last night because,
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: you know, I think there's always the, there's a very
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: popular thing of where you look around and you assume
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: that other people have it together. And then you're the
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: one that's like got all the problems. And we do
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: this both for ourselves, where we glamorize what other people's
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: accomplishments are and forget their humanity. And I think we
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: also do it in, in, religious matters or churches. I
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: say religious because I think people sometimes will talk about
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Muslims and be like, every Muslim is a devout go-getter.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: There's no such thing as like, you know, and I,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: that's just not the case. Humanity is consistent. But in
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: this case, I asked you, I said, if the Christian,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: I asked you, I said, you go all over the world,
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: you see places where people are persecuted for Christianity. And
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: you also speak in American churches like ours. And I said,
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: do you think the Christian church is dull? And you,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: you answered me and you said, it's not dull. It's
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: idealistic and comfortable. Can you explain that to the people?
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Because I want to just dive off that conversation because
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: we had kids running everywhere and multiple friends. So we
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: weren't able to go. And I was like, we need
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: to have this conversation because of the way you answered.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: There's definitely, just like we were saying before, we can
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: learn things from different cultures. There is stuff that the
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: rest of the world can and would do well to
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: learn from America. America has a yes culture attitude to
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: pretty much everything. Like if you're at a restaurant and
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: you say, I'll have this item on the menu, but
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: can you like hold the sauce and can you do
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: it this way? And the answer is always, yes. You
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: go to pretty much anywhere else in the world, especially Europe.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: And you're like, do you have this?
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Or can I change?
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: Nope. It's always like, nope, it's just too hard. And
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: we don't even ask, you know, I can go to
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: the Netherlands and say, can I have a Virgin Mary?
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: And they'll be like, nope. I'm like, do you even
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: know what Virgin Mary is? And they're like, Um, no.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: I'm like, well, hang on just a second. You're saying no,
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: before you even understand it's just tomato juice with a
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: bit of Tabasco sauce and a little bit of Worcestershire
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: and make it spice, spice it up a little bit. Um,
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: and they're like, well, we don't have that on the menu.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: I'm like, but do you have tomato juice? Yes. Do
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: you have Tabasco sauce? Yes. I'll have a Virgin Mary.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: Oh no, we don't have that on the menu. It
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: drives you crazy. But the good thing is like make.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: The Bloody Mary before you put the vodka and stop.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: That's not hard. Yeah.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: But America is the only place that I know of
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: in the world where you can even turn right on
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: a red light. I mean, the rest of the world
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: stops at a red light, but America, oh no, just
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: make sure it's safe and then carry on your merry way.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: And so even though there is so much to learn
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: from America, I would go so far as to say
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: America would also do well to look abroad and have
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: a look at what else is going on. Because yes,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: the America First policy I actually quite admire it as
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: long as it doesn't become an America only policy. And
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: so when it comes to the church being idealistic, well,
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: we've got all the answers, we can do anything. And yes,
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: there is a degree of that, but it's also idealistic
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: from the perspective of, well, we think we know everything
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: and we have the solution and the answer. But there
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: might be actually better solutions and different answers. available to
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: you if you'd be willing to look. Because when people say, hey,
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: where do you come from? I'm like, I've come from Queensland, Australia. Where? Sunshine. Oh,
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: is that in Florida? Like not everything is about America.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: There is a world, a big world out there, and
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: it would be great for America to step outside that.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: But why don't we?
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: Those are the Americans who've never been outside of America.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: That's right. And it's too, well, it would be scary
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: to go outside of America. Well, that would make me uncomfortable. And,
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: you know, what if I, you know, lose my baggage
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: or what if I get sick? And that fear of
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: discomfort or of suffering kind of may inhibit us a
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: little bit from thinking bigger, broader, and better. That's kind
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: of the thought behind it.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: And I want to dive off there, but you also
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: said something else that I want to point out because
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: we're not the like bag on pastors, bag on the church,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: like let's just point out all the stuff that's wrong podcast.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: And that's just not the way we live. Like we're
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: positive attitude people, but we're also like, we want to
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: see it for what it is. You said that the
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: American Christian church is responsible. You said anecdotally like 80%
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: of generosity, and we don't have the exact stats, but
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: you said by and large generosity of the outpouring towards
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: other missions and other countries is coming out of our country.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's not even a close comparison. I mean, we've
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: got rich nations in the world. I mean, my heritage
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: is Switzerland, one of the richest nations on earth. Our
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: Swiss franc is pretty strong. The American dollar tanks, the
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: rest of the world's currencies tank, except for The Swiss franc,
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: you know, so Q, not giving financial advice. You want
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: to put good money in good places. But when it
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: comes to generosity, there's almost a poverty of spirit. You know,
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: the economic poverty is not financial. It's mindset. It's, oh, no,
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: I need to protect and hoard and keep. So there's
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: no spirit of generosity in that nation and not to
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: my experience anyway. I don't want to blanketly wipe everyone out,
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: and I'm sure there's great, generous Swiss people out there,
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: but America is hands down the leader in the world,
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: I'd go so far as to say. Top 20 givers
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: in the world, in terms of nations, still don't touch America.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Right. So that's the positive side. But that thought process
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: when you said that we're comfortable, man, that really got
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: me because we talked about the viewpoint that we have
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: of suffering. And I I don't, like you talked about suffering.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: I almost feel embarrassed the example you gave, but it
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: honestly is, it's like, oh, I don't want to lose
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: my luggage. And yet we have people, like I know
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: in Nigeria, there was Christians just being absolutely destroyed on
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: a regular basis. So much so, I remember President Trump
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: came out and like brought some attention to it. This
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: was in recent times. And so, I mean, we don't
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: have even a, I don't know that we, our filter
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: for what suffering is, is even talking about the same things, right?
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Like what, can you, you travel more? Can you tell,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: like what kind of suffering do you see Like what
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: we would call suffering might be losing our luggage. And
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying people aren't going through hard times. We're
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: not the like, you know, your life is great and
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: just shut up. That's not what we're saying. But I mean,
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: I find that perspective is something we're big on. And
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: when you travel the way you do, you have a
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: very different perspective. So what does it look like in
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: other countries?
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: I think the risk takers are the ones who are
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: willing to lose. They do the pre-calculated cost and say,
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: I'm still willing to step into the fray. But when
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: you have comfort and when you have not necessarily great wealth,
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: because even great wealthy people can take risk, but when
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: you have comfort in your wealth, when you find your
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: security in your wealth, then it's misplaced. And so therefore, well,
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: I could lose it. So I will avoid whatever suffering
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: may be out there. So fear of the unknown, basically,
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: so that I can hold on to my comfort. I
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: dare not step outside of my comfort zone. But that
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: just limits yourself. That limits growth. That limits opportunity. Even
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Australian people hear, oh, you're from down under.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: You're an Aussie.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: That's amazing. Oh, but wait, aren't there like 18,000 animals
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: that can kill you down there? I would never go
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: to America. It's the spiders, the sharks, the crocodiles, the snakes.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: They're like, oh, no.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, but here in America, more people die
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: from people than the animals in Australia. Yeah. And so
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: what if we were to have a bigger, broader perspective
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: and be open to the theology of suffering? Because suffering
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: is not all bad. There is great value in suffering.
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: So the obvious question, what's the value in suffering?
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, the only qualification that any of us, even
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: the three of us at this table, need in order
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: to experience some kind of travesty, hardship or suffering in
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: our life is simply to be born. In other words,
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: no one is actually immune to it. But once we've suffered,
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: it's like, well, I need to protect myself because I
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: don't want to ever experience that again. Or there could
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: be a flip side. I could actually capitalize on this.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: I could be catapulted out of my crisis and into
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: my calling. And oftentimes, a good crisis or great suffering
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: actually steers a person into the future calling of what
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: it is that God's going to now use because we
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: are going to be healed, we're going to be made whole,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: and we're going to learn lessons along the way. And
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: now you are of great value because you've been there,
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: you've done that, you've survived the difficulty, and other people
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: could learn those valuable lessons from you. And so if
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: you look back at any personal experience that you've had
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: in your life where you've radically grown, Chances are it
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: was immediately after great suffering. Great suffering is a pivotal
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: point in our lives, which gives us the opportunity to
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: really take a good hard look at our lives and go,
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: maybe I can at this point, while everything's been leveled,
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: the house has been completely demolished. Well, if I'm going
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: to rebuild, maybe I could build back better. What would
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: that look like? And I can actually improve my situation
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: now as I pick myself up, dust myself off and
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: step back into the fray.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: Now, what do you think is the difference between those that,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: because you basically, what it sounds like to me is
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: that we're all going to experience suffering and you get
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: to choose how you respond to it. But so oftentimes
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: people choose to be like, I don't want to go
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: back to that. And we try to avoid it. But
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: you're also talking about that. There's a choice where you go,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: this is the greatest catapult of my life. what makes
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: the difference between what a person chooses?
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: There's probably a whole host of different things. I think
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: Garrett could even speak into this because it's our everyday
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: waking up in the morning experience where I had every
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: intention to go to the gym. And then, oh, but
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: it's just, I'm just so tired or it's just so
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: cold or flip side, it's just so hot to go
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: to the gym right now. Let me just take an
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: extra 10 minutes and then 10 minutes becomes 15. And
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: then before you know, oh yeah, I'm not gonna go.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: And we now justify it. It's like the saying, you
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: can either make excuses or you can be successful, but
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: you cannot do both. And I'm literally avoiding the discomfort
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: or the suffering that is going to take place at
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: the gym because it exerts effort. But hey, if I
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: make the disciplined decision to go to the gym and
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: I actually lasso somebody in, So that I'm accountable to them.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: So I'm not just going on my own, but I'm
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: going to let somebody else down if I don't show up.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: So now I've got something else to get out of
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: bed for, because especially if it's an accountability buddy, who's
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: not going to let you get away from like, Garrett,
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: if you made a decision, we're going, you're going. I
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: don't even have to drag you out of bed, you know,
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: and your wife's still next to you. I'm still doing
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: it because... Because you're coming and we've made a decision.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: And so now we are going to build our bodies.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: And the benefit is so great because I had the mindset,
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: the suffering is worth it.
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: It's what you're talking about. The mindset of suffering is
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: what helps lead to the growth, which is something we
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: talk about here all the time.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: And I think it's really interesting.
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: I'm just thinking, and as I'm listening to you talking
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: about growth is on the other side of suffering, and
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: we're talking about the American church. the American church is
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: at a point where it's not growing very strongly. But
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: I think what's interesting as it relates to suffering, I mean,
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: that's very correlated, but I think what's interesting as it
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: relates to suffering is if I tried to put that
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: American church opposition to suffering in a bottle, I feel
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: like in America we have this, just a little bit
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: of entitlement, towards we should get to choose what our
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: suffering looks like. And if I was gonna try to
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: point people in a better, wiser direction, I want you
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: to comment on this too, Dr. Robbie, but point people
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: in a better, wiser direction. Because when I think about
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: suffering around the rest of the world, that was nobody's
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: chosen suffering. When I think about suffering that's happening in
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: other nations where they're at war, where people are being
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: persecuted for their beliefs, that's not the suffering that anybody
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: would choose. And I think in America, we have just
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: this little bit of entitlement that we should be able
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: to choose what our suffering looks like. Or when people
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: are offered suffering, well, that's not the suffering that I
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: asked for. I do want to grow. I do want
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: to get better, but maybe not that suffering. And so
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: what would you say to someone who has the attitude?
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: And I would say maybe just through a psychological lens,
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: but also through some of your world experience lens, what
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: would you say to somebody that doesn't like the suffering
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: that's been offered to them?
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: I would say you don't understand freedom. And we have
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: four different types of freedom. And I think we shared
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: this last time I was in Texas, especially at the
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: celebration of 250 years of America, the land of the free.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: But hang on just a second. Just because somebody is
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: put into a constitution, you have certain inalienable rights and freedoms.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: The question becomes, are you living free? Just because somebody
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: wrote it down that you are free, but you can
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: still be living with hangups. And so there are four
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: different types. Let's just go through them really quickly. So
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: at the beginning, you have low freedom, which pretty much
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: equates to no freedom. where there is an external body
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: or a situation or a circumstance, maybe a government or
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: maybe an illness or maybe you just don't have the
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: capacity to get up and go to the gym because, well,
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: something else is taking that freedom away from you. And
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: it's common among children, of course, the younger a child,
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: They basically are told what they're going to eat, where
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: they're going to go to school, what they're going to wear,
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: what time they have to go. They've got no say
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: in the matter because they have not yet developed self-control.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: But as we develop self-control, we are given or granted
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: a little bit more freedom. And this is now where
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: we enter into a different phase, limited freedom, which even
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: can become negative freedoms. I can actually do whatever I want.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: Like I grew up, I moved out of home. I
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: can now go to university and go either to my
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: class or to the bar, you know, class bar. Oh, wait,
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: my friends are at the bar. Let's go to the bar.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: And I might bail and fail at my studies. But
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: you know, that was, that was the freedom. We call
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: it negative freedom because there are often negative consequences with
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: doing whatever you want. All things are permissible, just not
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: all things are profitable. But then we enter into positive
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: freedom where we learn to exert self-control or self-restraint, which
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: is what the founding fathers of your nation did when
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: they signed the Mayflower Compact. They entered into a covenant
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: with one another. Hey, before any of us step foot
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: onto land, let's make sure that we put some boundaries,
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: some restrictions that we are going to all adhere to
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: because otherwise it's going to be Lord of the Flies
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: out there. Each man to themself, we're outside of any
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: charter or jurisdiction. So therefore, you know, each man to themselves,
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: which results in chaos and corruption. But if we can
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: self-impose restrictions right now, then we enter into positive freedom.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: We're going to have a positive result. But the highest
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: and ultimate form of freedom is called high freedom. where
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: we have maximum negative freedom and maximum positive freedom. In
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: other words, I can do whatever I want, but I
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: have the wisdom to exercise the restraint. In other words,
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: I can eat the whole pie, but I've got the
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: wisdom to only have one slice.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I remember Garrett said this once, and it really
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: stood out to me. He said that one of the
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: principles of relationship is freedom, because if you're not choosing
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: to be there, then it's not actually a relationship.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: It's slavery.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: And I think that that's what upsets so many people
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: when they look at the world and they see all
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: the brokenness. It's the old, how could a loving God
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: allow this? And it's what you just said. It's like
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: Adam and Eve stepped into max positive and negative freedom
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: with no wisdom, and so what we are living in
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: is the consequence of the ripple effect over thousands of
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: years of that decision. And when you put it like that,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: you're like, oh, but people don't ever think like that.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: All they do is they look in a microcosm, like
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: a little small sliver, and they're like, that person said that,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: and that really hurts their feelings, and How could God
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: allow this? And you fly off the handle, like zoom
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: out and see the whole thing. The way you just
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: phrased that, it makes so much sense.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: And when people are asking that, how could God question?
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: It actually erodes away a person's faith because they start
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: looking at the state of the world. And then they
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: end up with the question, well, how could a loving
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: God allow that to happen? And people then go, well,
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: if God existed, surely he would do something about it.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: I just wonder if the angels ever go to God
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: and say, God, we don't reckon people exist. Because look
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: at their world. I mean, their children are suffering. They're
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: aborting their children. There's just chaos. And if people existed,
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: surely they would do something about it. So this is
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: our world. This is our responsibility. And that's what ultimate
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: freedom is. It's having the responsibility, not just the ability
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: to do whatever you want, but rather be able to
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: go without what you want and be okay with it. Why?
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: Because I'm pursuing a higher cause. And the higher up
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: you go in leadership, you give up your rights in
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: order to fulfill your responsibility.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, big time. Man, I almost want you to repeat
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: that or we'll just put that on loop because that is, yeah,
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: so true. Okay, so I want to use your unique
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: experience because Garrett's talked about it. You said it right
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: now about the mindset you bring into suffering. And you
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: said the same thing about going into war situations, that
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: the guys that were rock solid coming out of scene,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: as you always put it, their body get blown up
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: and having to wash their hearts out of the back
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: of a Humvee. You're going to find out what mentality
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: you brought in. because at that point, it's too late
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: to kind of establish something. Now, you've worked with, I'm
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: going to go ahead and assume the millions of people
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: you've worked with, because I mean, if you think of
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: the worst things out there, sex trafficking, war-torn areas, you're there,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: like you've been there. What do you do with somebody
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: who did not have that mindset going in, and they've
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: just been like shell-shocked? How are you changing their perspective
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: or their understanding to turn this, because you you make
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: suffering a positive thing, or it's the wall that shuts
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: you in for the rest of your life, or it's
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: the thing that propels you on to your next and greatest.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: So what do you do with those people?
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: I think that ultimately no one wants to get caught
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: out in the rain. It's uncomfortable, you get wet. But
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: you put a dried lump of clay out in the rain,
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: and the dried clay becomes malleable and moldable once again.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: And so suffering does that same thing. It allows a
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: person to be forged in their character. And so it's
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: not a sob story. It's a success story. See, here's
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: a misnomer that people often quote. People say absolute power
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: corrupts absolutely. What a load of crap. Absolute power does
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: not corrupt absolutely. Absolute pride corrupts absolutely. And so what
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: suffering does is it breaks down your pride. And when
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: you are humble... Well, now I'm in a position to
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: actually take a look at my life and go, maybe
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: I need to make some changes. I mean, because at
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: the end of the day, I've experienced suffering in my life.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: And I can either, with pride, point the finger at
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: the rest of the world or the people who betrayed
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: or hurt me. Or I can go, maybe God's trying
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: to teach me something. Maybe there's a lesson to be learned.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: And it is in that humility now that I become,
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: wait for it, empowered. that whatever I go through, I
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: can grow through. There is a brand new tomorrow. And
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: my hope is that my tomorrow is going to be
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: better than my today or my yesterday, so long as
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: I don't let go of that hope and make sure
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: that my eyes are fixed on the right kind of hope,
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: not terms and conditions attached to hope. I mean, it's
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: like the Stockdale paradox that you would know so much about.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: This guy goes into prison for eight years, prisoner of
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: war in North Vietnam, and he comes out the other
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: side And Beeming's like, yep, I made this the defining
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: moment of my life. And hang on, how did you survive? Well,
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: I had hope. Well, what about all the others that
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: didn't survive?
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, easy.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: They had hope. Hang on. How can you both have
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: hope and one survives and the other doesn't? Well, not
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: every type of hope is the same.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: So good.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: So he had a big picture hope and the others
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: had terms and conditions. So surely we're going to be
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: out by Christmas or by Easter or by Thanksgiving. And
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: hope deferred makes the heart sick. But rather than being
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: focused on an outcome, what if we were to focus
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: on a someone? Rather than looking to have something be
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: changed or improved in my life, what if I held
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: on to the ultimate hope that somebody's in my corner,
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: not just on my side, but in my corner and
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: all things, not some things, not most things, but all
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: things work together for the good of those who love
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: him and according to his purpose. So that gives me hope.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: My tomorrow is going to be better. And by faith,
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: I'm going to forge my way through. I'm going to
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: learn the lessons that need to be learned, and I
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: am going to come back better.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: That's where we've talked about locus of control before. It's
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: the two different people who were in the camp. One
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: was hoping, external locus of control, hoping that their situation
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: would change, whereas Admiral Stockdale had the hope in how
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: it was changing him and that there was a purpose
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: and meaning in what he was going through. So it's
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: all the internal versus external locus of control, which bringing
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: that back into this conversation is that's what you have
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: to see in your suffering.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: I love the analogy.
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: That's such a beautiful analogy of water to dry clay
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: for what suffering is to your life. It turns you
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: into something that's moldable and workable. It's putting oil in
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: the gears of your life where before that you were rusted.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: And unable to move.
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: But when you put the oil in there, when you
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: bring the water to the clay, now we can become
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: what we're supposed to become. Because that's not just ideas
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: from a few great stories. That's also Christ's life.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, so I have a few more questions,
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: which is probably of shock to nobody here. But I
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: want to, so where do you think that this, our
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: mentality towards suffering comes from then? I realize I'm asking
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: a very ambiguous question, but I'm doing it on purpose.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Because if I sit here logically, and I always, I
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: say this all the time. It's one of the things
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: I feel like I'm saying more in my time of
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: life right now than anything else. I go, that's logical,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: not rational. And that, and people aren't logical. They're rational, right?
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: Like check me if I'm crazy. Cause I, a lot
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: of times people will say these things. I'm like, that's
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: a really logical thought, but we're dealing with humans and
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: we don't work on logic. We work on rational rationale
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: and there's a difference. So, cause when I listen to you,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: my logical mind is like, dude, you know what I
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: need to do? We need to get hard. Or if
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: you stay hard, you ain't got to get hard, son.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: Let's just.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: Tough times create strong men. Yeah, exactly.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: And in all honesty, Garrett and I do live that way.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: We just came down from a nice, lovely vacation together
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: where we hiked up to altitude, had our blood oxygen
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: just dive down to dangerous areas. Our resting heart rate skyrocket,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: not sleep well, breathe terribly, climb a mountain, stay there
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: for a few days because brotherhood. And I loved it.
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: Speak for yourself.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: Bro, we... I didn't say it was wonderful. I enjoyed myself.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: We did. If you look at our, our roots, that's
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: talking about all those negative conditions. I was joking. Okay.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: Garrett was fine, but I felt them. I did sleep
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: really good. You did sleep really good, man. He's unbelievable
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: with that. I slept like garbage, hot garbage anyways. So
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: the point being that was one thing, but like, why
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: would logically, if I sit here, I'm listening to this
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: podcast and I hear Dr. Robbie said, This is going
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: to make me more moldable. And if you really sit
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: there and you go, oh, man, I want God to
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: use me. I don't want to look back on my
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: life and feel like there's any juice left in the lemon.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: I want to squeeze every drop. Then surely you start
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: applying yourself to these things. But yet, man, it's like
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: we get guys. It's because it hurts, Nick. Am I
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: thinking this too deeply?
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: It's that good old Muhammad Ali quote. Everybody has a
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: plan until they get punched in the face.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: It's actually Mike Tyson. Thank you. Mike Tyson, yeah.
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: I think everybody wants purpose until they go through testing.
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: And then you are really confronted with how bad.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: Do you actually want this. I would challenge that and
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: push back a little bit and say maybe not everyone
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: wants purpose. Everyone wants provision. Everyone wants the pot of
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: gold at the end of the rainbow. And it's because
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: they lack purpose that they are avoidant of suffering. And
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: so in Swiss, we have a saying, which translates... I
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: say that all the time. Of course.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: All the time, Garrett.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: And you should.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: You should learn it.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: I'll teach you it later.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: I hope you're staying here for a few extra weeks.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: It basically means when you've reached the top of the mountain...
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: keep on climbing. And the idea behind it is why
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: would you do that unless there is a purpose? And
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: so when you talk about Jesus, yeah, he suffered, but
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: with purpose or Viktor Frankl, you know, man's search for meaning.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: As long as you can find meaning in the madness,
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: then you've got the why behind the what. If you
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: don't have the why, if the purpose is lacking and
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: you just want the provision, well, then you're focused on money,
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: but you've got to make something more than money. And
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: what matters more than money is meaning. And meaning is
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: where the purpose is. If you've got purpose, it doesn't
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: matter what suffering comes your way. You will not only
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: be able to withstand it, you will navigate your way
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: through it because you see the vision through the other side.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: And that's the gold.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: So it's what we say all the time. You can
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: be motivated by pain, pleasure, but those will run out.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: You can get enough pleasure that you stop running. You
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: can get far enough from pain that you stop running.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: But purpose is the thing that keeps you running forever.
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: Most people are either running from pain or running towards pleasure.
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: They're finite loops. The only infinite loop is life.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: And avoidance of pain is often more powerful than the
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: pursuit of pleasure.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, I mean, that's where like you sit there
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: and you zoom out and it's like Christ, the hope
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: of glory. I love what you, I almost want to
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: take what you said. I made a note. I was
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: making a note while you were saying that, what time
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: it is in the podcast. Cause I just want to
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: take what you said there and put it on a
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: one minute thing for people to listen to, to get
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: the right mindset for whatever difficulty comes during their day.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: Because when your hope, what you're saying is when you
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: have the hope of glory, Jesus Christ, an eternal perspective,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: and that is giving you meaning in every single thing.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: It's like any difficulty... Because I think people read the
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: Apostle Paul, and it's like... Garrett loves to talk about
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Apostle Paul just getting... They throw enough rocks, they're like, yeah,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: he's dead. And everyone walks away.
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: Stoned to death twice. If someone's stoned you to death,
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: it's not like, okay, we've thrown enough rocks. When they
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: stone someone to death, they stone them until they're like, okay, he's.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Not moving anymore. He's dead. Yeah, they didn't get tired.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: It's not like 40 lashes. There wasn't a fixed number
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: of rocks.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: And so, like, we read these things. I think oftentimes
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: we go, like, we either make him superhuman. And I've
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: seen this with Garrett. People will say, because he's a
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: Navy SEAL, like, oh, like, it's one of the reasons
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: why I wanted to talk to you about this. Garrett, obviously,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: he has a price-paying mentality of I want to be
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: a price payer. I know one of his big wants
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: is to be a lifelong price payer. And I love that.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: I've adopted that. I 100% stole that from him. But
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: because I've seen the benefit of it. I get it. Like,
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: if you want to accomplish everything God has for you,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: there's no other way. But I think it's one thing
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: for a Navy SEAL guy to say that, and I'm
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: his friend, and like, oh, you're around him, and you're
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: in that culture. We have people that we will probably
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: never meet, thousands and thousands of people that listen to
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: this that we will never meet, although I would love to.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: And so it's very different when you come on and
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: you go, like, hang on a minute, guys. This is
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: the very lubricant in the gears that God's using to
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: shift you up into your next level. Great language.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: Well, I took it from you, so I'm repeating. I'm
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: quoting you to you. But when you start seeing that
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: as suffering... And then you say, but here's what really
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: drives it. Like, here's the transmission fluid, while we're sticking
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: with this analogy, that, like, makes it all happen, is
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: that eternal purpose. Like, okay, well, now you've just given
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: me a whole different reason to, like, seek this out,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: to interpret things differently, to put different sort of meaning
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: on everything. And I look at this and I go, like, okay. Like,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: because now it's not just like, oh, well, you went
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: through some hard stuff, so you've got to do that
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: because you're sealed, dude. Now it's like, no, this is
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: God's actual way. And that's why I asked you the
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: question how we got there, because We follow, I mean,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: Jesus is known as the suffering servant, right? It says
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: his life on earth, he knew a great deal of
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: suffering and he cried out, he learned obedience through the
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: things that he suffered. So he was a man of
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: many sorrows. And yet we're like, oh, but Jesus just
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: loved everybody. Like he's just, oh, he's just Jesus, man.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: He's my guy. And it's like, dude, Jesus was a
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: hard dude. Like he's standing up to all the powers
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: of the time. And so I'm just wondering, how do
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: we get this so wrong? I'm trying to understand how
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: we get this so wrong. And maybe I'm overthinking it
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: and you're like, look, we're just stupid. But I want
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: to hear from you more about how we change this mindset.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: Because you've been through various hard things. You deal with
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: millions of people who go through some of the worst
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: pains that you could even imagine. And yet it's like, no,
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: there's hope. And that, to me, is just such a
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: beautiful thing.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: I think the things that we've spoken about so far,
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: in fact, this is a great conversation. I hope this
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: becomes your most listened to podcast. If you're listening. send
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: this to all of your mates and friends, because this
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: is really life-changing. The nuances that we've discussed are, hey,
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: there are different types of freedom. Hey, there's also different
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: types of hope, but there's also different types of suffering.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: And we've got to be very careful not to make
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: suffering the goal. And I think because people lack purpose
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: in their life, they search for something to fight and
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: rail against to give my life meaning and purpose. And
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: so now the suffering becomes, you know, the climate change
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: or the, you know, the, the ice, you know, we've
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: got to fight back against. And so give me the
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: latest cause, you know, female empowerment, you know, abortion, right.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Whatever the, the, the, the LGBT, whatever the latest fad
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: or fashion is, let me jump, let me jump on
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: board with that. And now it gives my life meaning
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: because I'm fighting against something and then we missed the
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: mark altogether.
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: And so we're now running around like a mouse on
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: a tread wall, making lots of motion, lots of noise,
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: placards out, but making no progress, especially not in society
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: and definitely not in my life. Because it's the purpose
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: that gives you the fuel to get through the suffering.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: The suffering in itself is not the purpose. And so
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: what's beyond it? What's driving my life? I've got to
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: ask these hard questions as opposed to just jumping on
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: the latest bandwagon of that's wrong, that's unjust, right, we're
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: going to rail against it because now it gives my
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: life meaning. That's how manipulation takes place. If we can
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: rally people around a cause, well, hang on, I'm not
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: fighting for a cause. I'm not fighting, should I say,
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: I'm not fighting against something. I want to be fighting
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: for a purpose that is greater than me, that actually
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: adds value to the lives of others, that is anointed
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: and appointed for me, that I'm in the right track
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: that God's got me on. And so I actually have
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: to start with God, not with the latest grievance. It's not,
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: the grievance industry is big business. And if we can
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: corral people, we can manipulate them. We can, you know,
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: get them voting a particular way. We can, whoa, hang
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: on just a second. But when there is genuine purpose
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: in the midst of suffering, that's where growth takes place.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: So you've got to ask yourself, am I growing in
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: this or am I just becoming more angry in this
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: because I've got a fight on my hands? And so
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: where are the fastest growing churches in the world today?
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: It's a great question. I don't actually know.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: I would say.
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: South Korea, right?
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: South Korea, Iran. China, wherever there's oppression, there's growth.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: If there's genuine, authentic purpose.
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: What did the early church get for 100 years right
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: after Christ?
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, brutal, brutal torture and suffering. Yeah, and oppression.
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: And it not just survived, but grew and thrived against
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: all odds in the midst of great suffering.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: Where the early believers were, I mean, martyred and persecuted.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: Terribly. Now, see, that's, I, you know, Dr. Harvey, I've
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: said in the absence of suffering, we've created new suffering
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: to myself. I have never tied it to a lack
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: of purpose. And you're right. It's like, we just keep
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: inventing new things that like, that people are oppressed by.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: And you gave a few examples of, it's like, oh, well,
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: now we've got gender oppression. And now, and like, let's
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: talk about how racist America is. And I'm like, you
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: could have picked different times in history to talk about
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: how racist America is. And like, I'm not saying it
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: doesn't exist at all, but like some of this, if
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: you were to just sit there and listen to the news,
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: you would think that we were, you know, a couple
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: hundred years ago.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: And it is for that reason that a person with
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: a victim mindset, like this is Garrett's, straight out of
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: Garrett's textbook. The person with a victim mindset will look
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: at the world through the lens of their suffering. This
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: is what we're talking about. But for them, even equality
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: will look like injustice.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because they're so tilted. What were you going to say, Jay?
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: Well, I was going to say where he's talking about
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: a cause, I think about an agenda. And racism is
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: an agenda. Homosexuality, LGBT, all these different things, these are agendas.
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: And what they get you focused on, it's a suffering agenda.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: But it's not me. It's out there. It's them. It's external.
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: None of these are suffering agendas that lead to I
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: need to change. It's everyone else needs to change. Amen.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: That is the hammer statement.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: Come on. That's why no growth is created.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: Can you say that again? I need to hear it twice.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: Hold on. That's a great Michael Jackson quote. Wow. This
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: is fresh right here.
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: I want to make the world a better place. Take
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: a look at yourself and make a change. It's not
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: about how.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Very nice.
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: It's not about how other people need to change. It's
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: about how I need to change. And that's where suffering
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: is nearly useless is when the suffering that you're focused
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: on is how other people need to change.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Man, you've told me I need to change a lot, bro. Man, oh, dude,
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: that's so good. Yeah, I am grateful to be sat
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: at this table with the two of you guys just
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: like going back and forth. So, okay, so now I'm
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: going to get, I'm a learner, so I'm always going
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: to get practical on this. I love that you said
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: that the same way that you can have hope in
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: the wrong things. Like, you know, people will say things
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: like love wins. And I was talking to Garrett. I
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: was looking at this guy's sweatshirt. Actually, I won't tell
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: that story because I may bump into this guy at
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: the pod. He'll listen to the podcast, but he was wearing.
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: We did, we did, you know, something I joke about
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: just on this topic really quick for a second. One
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: of the things I joke about is people say all
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: the time, like I am enough or say like you
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: are enough.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, no, you're not. like this.
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: You're actually not enough. You need to change. You need
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: Christ in your life. When we were going to Colorado,
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: we had this guy come on the plane wearing a
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: rainbow tie-dye hoodie that said, I am enough.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: And I was just like, yeah. And these people, this
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: self-love thing. And I remember I was sitting there thinking,
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: I was like, self-love. And I was like, in my head,
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: I'm working this out. I'm like, well, hang on. Is
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: that actually real love? And I started the same way
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: you said, not all hope is created equal. You can love.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, Paul said, the apostle Paul said, they become
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: lovers of self. And I think sometimes because hope is
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: a good thing and love is a good thing, we
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: make these like universal fixers and they're not.
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: The definition for love and self-love is the same definition
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: for love that exists in culture today where it's if
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: you don't affirm me, you don't love me.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: If you don't tell me I'm right, then you're not
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: loving me. Self-love is that definition of love. I affirm myself.
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: I tell myself that I'm right. I tell myself that I'm,
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: I mean, literally making the statement I'm enough. It's reaffirming
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: yourself when in reality you're not.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: But you understand, I mean, like, I thought it was
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: so good how you said you can have hope in
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: the wrong things. And then you also, the point I
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: was making is you said you can suffer for the
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: wrong things. It's not suffering for suffering's sake. It's taking
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: the suffering that God's given to you. So my question
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: to you would be, like, we do hard things, right?
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: And we're going to continue to do hard things. What
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: do you think is like, I mean, what do you
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: think is like a healthy amount? And what do you
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: know psychologically from people that condition themselves as far as like,
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: I want, you know, I'm looking for your psychological head of,
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: of like, this is what actually happens the more you
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: do this stuff. Yeah.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: Look, you can tell the degree of tension that a
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: person is going through. We, so if we, to change
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: the language slightly from, from, from suffering to, to pressure and,
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: and we're putting pressure on ourselves. And so when you
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: tighten the strings of a guitar, it puts pressure on
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: it to make a sound. And so when you listen
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: to the sound that's coming out of a person's mouth,
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks,
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: you get to really clearly see, is this person living
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: in tune? What kind of music are they making? And
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: that press, like Pastor Keith would say this as he
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: goes to the gym, he's like, it's the press that
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: builds the muscle. And so if I'm pushing against the
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: resistance that's pushing against me and I'm pushing back against it,
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: that's how growth takes place. And as you tear the
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: muscle and then rest the muscle, my muscle actually gets
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: ripped and then repairs and repairs even stronger than it
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: was before. And this process is a system and a
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: structure that we follow. And so there's great value in it. Yeah.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: And so you're just saying, just go work out. That's
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: what I heard. I just want to make sure, like
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: this is the Get Jack podcast. You're saying everybody needs
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: to start hitting the weights, correct?
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: Well, in honor of Pastor Keith and what we're talking
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: about here, what it really is, is choose your heart.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, very good. If you don't choose hard, hard
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: will choose you, right?
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, once again, like logically that makes so much sense.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: And so, man, like, so we're getting here to time,
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: but I just, I hope that people are coming out
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: of this going, man, like I need to start introducing
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: myself to like not hiding from adversity and dare I say, introducing,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: take a cold shower. Like just, it's the simplest thing.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: You won't want to do it. That's the whole point.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: Like just, am I right in saying that? Just begin
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: with like little small things.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: I have a philosophy of life. It's easy to get
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: what you want in this life. Just get up and
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: do the thing you don't feel like doing. And all
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: nine times out of 10. Yeah, it's the feeling that's
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: holding me back. But don't follow your feelings because feelings
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: are faulty. Inform your feelings and the feeling will follow.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much for listening, guys. Remember to share, like, subscribe.
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: If you think that this would be something that someone
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: would enjoy, please send it to them. We appreciate it all.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: If you want to get in touch, you can follow
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: us on Instagram at The Impossible Life. You'll find us
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: on there. You can also email at impossiblelifepodcast at gmail.com.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: If you have any questions, if you want to get
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: in touch and find out about Garrett's personal or business coaching,
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: that's the way to do it. Thank you again for listening.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: Go out there, think better, and live the impossible. See
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: you again soon.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: Thank you.