Latest / World Ablaze with George Fontes / Evan Longin - Author | Psychology | Speaker

Transcript

Evan Longin - Author | Psychology | Speaker · World Ablaze with George Fontes

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Welcome, World of Blaze listeners and now, watchers.
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As promised, I am doing video episodes and as I stated previously, for those who do listen
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to my audio-only episodes, I am primarily focusing on guest episodes and where those
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will be video because I just believe it's better to be able to see people's reactions
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for better context. You can see people's faces, etc. Welcome to episode 80. And on today's episode,
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I have guest Evan Longin. Evan Longin is a psychologist of 45 years. He used to have his
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private practice. He also taught psychotherapy, and he's a published author. He wrote the book,
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The Root of Evil. And in that book, he discusses how it is possible that evil can creep into society
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without us even knowing it. And of course, this discussion definitely goes in the direction of
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Trump. We discuss Trump as many consider him to be evil or Hitler or a dictator. And so that
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discussion is had. But then we shift from domestic politics and talk about conflicts abroad. We talk
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about Israel, Gaza, and of course, we discuss Russia and Ukraine. I really do hope you enjoy
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this episode. Evan's a very intelligent person, and this is a great episode to watch because
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in this episode, you see that two people that don't necessarily agree. I'm not a Democrat of
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the left, and Evan is definitely not of the right, but we're still able to come together,
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have a discussion, and even offer solutions that work.
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I mean, just make sense for everybody, for humans living on the planet in a way that we
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can coexist and respect each other.
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So without further ado, here is Evan Longin.
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So thank you for taking the time and coming on to the show.
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And as we just discussed earlier before I press record, appropriate, given what's going
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on in California. Before we move on, I want to go ahead and, I mean, the background that I see
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here on you, you were a psychologist before the private practice. Is this true?
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Yes.
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Okay. And you taught psychotherapy for over 45 years or so. Is that correct?
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Yes.
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Okay. Awesome. And then you became an author, that book, The Root of Evil. And was that released in
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2022 or 2023? 2020, at the end of 2022. So right on that cusp of transitioning into 23.
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Yes. And you're known for that. You sold a few copies for sure, and you do discuss it.
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And the subjects in here, now I'm a politics and geopolitics show, but I do like to venture
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out into other areas. That being said, I think a lot of what you wrote and what you study is
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very appropriate to what's going on today. I did want to ask you though, before we dive into that,
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excuse me while I turn this up
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that
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that
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you mentioned something
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I'm reading here in your bio about
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how psychotherapy I believe
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if I'm getting this correct can
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fail society or it can lead
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yes
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that's how I got interested in this whole
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idea of the breakdown
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of institutions
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and the breakdown of the body politic
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because in my own field
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we failed people frequently.
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I originally was a fellow at the Nathan Ackerman Family Institute
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where I studied postdoc and family therapy.
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And one of the things we noted back then was that the person who's the identified patient
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may in fact be the person who is most likely to bring new perspective to the family.
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And over and over again in my career, I was given very difficult cases that were not responding to treatment.
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And I found that they weren't responding to treatment because they were treating the wrong person.
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that the person that was the hospitalized or identified patient was not the problem.
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And I have a case that I talk about in my book that's the simplest one to understand.
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I get a call from a mother who tells me that her doctor, her pediatrician had referred her family to me,
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that her son had just been excluded from school after he went back to school and knocked out all
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the windows on the first floor of the school. This is an eight-year-old boy. So I said to the mother,
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well, okay, I'm more than happy to see you. I want to see you tomorrow with your whole family
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and with the boy, and we'll all talk about what's going on. And the first thing she says to me,
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no, no, no, no, no. You don't get it. My son is the problem. We don't need to come in.
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And I said, huh, well, you have to humor me because this is how I work. I like to see a
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family together, get a feel for what the dynamics are that are going on in the family.
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And if you want to bring your son in, I'm more than happy to see you. She said, well,
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I'm not coming in. I said, well, listen, then go to back to your pediatrician and get a referral
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to someone else. She said, well, the doctor said you're the best around. I said, well, thank you.
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So if you want my help, come in. So the next day she arrives, her husband and herself and her son,
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but she didn't bring her daughter. And I said to her, where's your daughter? And she said,
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my daughter's not a problem. My son's the problem and you got to fix him. Well, you see where this
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is going. Yeah, absolutely. So they all come into the office, the three of them. And I say to the
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son, would you do me a favor, take your chair and bring it up next to me. I want you to be my
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assistant therapist. And he goes, really? And I said, yeah, I'd like you to help me. And the
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mother goes, what is this? What are you doing? You're rewarding him for being a bad kid. I said,
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no, I'm getting him to participate and to feel safe and to join me in exploring what's going on
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in the family. Well, to make a long story short, ultimately, she's about to leave when the father
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says, I can't take it anymore. My wife was out cold on the floor when he came home from school.
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she's a drunk she's out of control and he in his own way went looking for help
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I said wow that's really impressive dad so I've seen so much of that I've seen where it's so easy
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to look at a situation and blame that person and so often if that kid had been treated in a
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more traditional setting, he would have been in therapy forever with no progress.
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All because the mother wanted to mask her own actions and her own behavior.
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Yes.
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It was affecting the family unit and the child.
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So those are the kinds of situations.
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That's as blatant one as I can share.
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We worked with a team.
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We would have a team of people who sat in the room with me, and the family would sit
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with other members of my team being interviewed.
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And then the family would, we would talk amongst ourselves about the things we heard.
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In this one instance, a young man who had been in McLean's Hospital, a famous psychiatric facility, and had been removed because he wasn't making progress, sat with us on our team.
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And the mother and the father and the sister were talking on the other side of the room.
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and after they finished talking he looked at us and he said holy cow is it possible
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that I did the things I did because I knew my mother was so depressed and I needed to do it
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to help the family is that and this came spontaneously from this 12 year old boy so
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So again, over and over and over, I have been called into difficult situations that don't get better because they're treating the wrong situation, the wrong problem.
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Right.
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And that's common.
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So that's how I got into this.
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Yeah, that's common in just the medical industry in general.
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I mean.
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Yes.
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Yeah, that's unfortunate.
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So with that being said, that is why you got into doing what you're doing and why you chose to go down the path of researching.
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And in your book, you do give your opinions on how evil can easily sneak into society.
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Now, does this tie into that?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, again, what I started to see in situations in the families I worked with, and by the way, I also back around 2010, that era, for five years, I was in the Middle East, working with Palestinian and Israeli children, bringing them together to talk with each other and to learn about each other and to collaborate.
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so my experience went from being a psychotherapist
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to working in issues in the community
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but what I saw over and over again
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was one, binary thinking
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us versus them
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in the case of the Middle East, Israelis versus Palestinians
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in today's California
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the white majority
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versus minority immigrants.
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They're seen as different.
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They're seen as other.
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The second thing is power over behavior,
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where the psychiatrist or the teacher
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or the politician uses power to control situations
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that should come about in a more collaborative,
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discussion between people. The third piece is the control of information. Today, a blatant
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thing happened. I don't know if you saw, Senator Padilla was tackled when he was trying to ask
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questions of the Secretary of Homeland Security. I did not see that today yet. He was thrown to
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the ground he was handcuffed and the story that MAGA is putting out is that they didn't know who
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he was he didn't identify himself well you can watch the the tv reporting of this and you can
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see he's going I'm senator Padilla I mean that is they said and they're throwing him to the ground
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so again there's a distortion of information information is corrupted we don't get the truth
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And the final piece that I found was people come up with simplistic solutions to complex problems.
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Yeah, they do.
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They oversimplify it.
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So instead of saying, okay, this is going to require some thought, we're going to have to work together.
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Both sides have to come together and collaborate to come up with a solution.
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unfortunately in in all the instances that i put in my book of evil in the community
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in in the college in psychotherapy we come up with simplistic solutions this kid broke the windows
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he needs to be the patient um it's it's uh too often a simplistic approach to something that
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requires more in-depth
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discussion and collaboration.
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Well, because punishment's not
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treating the cause, right? Or the root of
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why they behave that way.
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Right. So
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that all being said, it's
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in society,
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I mean, we'll just dive into it because we're already talking
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about things that are going on. Obviously, Trump
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administration, very polarizing figure.
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Some people approve some people don but regardless of Some people see him as a dictator fascist evil person fine so let let talk about how or if you can explain rather because you the expert in this
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is from your viewpoint how does evil creep in how does it get accepted into society and and how do
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these cults get formed where people are just willingly just blindly following the leader how
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does this happen? How does it happen? I just got back from Europe. I was in Germany, in Austria,
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and I was struck by what a wonderful culture, historic culture, the German-Austrian culture
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has been over generations.
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How was it possible
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that people joined with Adolf Hitler
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in this horrendous movement
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that was so inhuman,
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so evil, so dastardly?
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I don't know whether the word to use.
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That is the prime example of evil sneaking in
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and becoming accepted.
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Right, and being accepted.
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Um, my sense is you need people to be frightened.
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You need people to feel like they're not being heard.
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I didn't spend enough time in my book talking about that.
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The reason why, uh, Hitler took hold is the people of Germany felt like they were mistreated
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after world war one.
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They were poor.
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They were hungry.
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They wanted more opportunity, and Hitler was giving them a sense of power, a sense of being heard.
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Trump is doing exactly the same thing.
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Trump listened to people who were feeling left out, feeling like the people who felt like they weren't given the same opportunities as others.
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unfortunately those people are not being represented by trump he is not making it any
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easier for them to buy eggs he's not making it any easier for them to have access in fact his whole
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political economic strategy is he's going to give more money to the rich
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And then ultimately that's going to seep down to the poor people.
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So again, they, they, they think he's,
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he is speaking to their hurt and their anger and they're receptive to it.
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That's how it happens. I think.
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I mean, you got a point. I can't argue against that. That is,
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that is usually how almost any leader who gets elected, though, comes into power regardless.
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I mean, you're trying to play it to people's sympathies, right?
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Yes.
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That's usually what you do.
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But the problem with Trump, with Hitler, with other megalomaniacs is that they really don't offer solutions that will make the situation any better.
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They offer false solutions that ultimately create more problems.
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It's interesting.
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Do you think some of, because he is an interesting person to talk about.
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I mean, he's never had a president like this ever.
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And I will say that I don't agree with how he acts in public.
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He's not presidential.
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And the thing that he does, like, why are we airing out grievances on social media, for example?
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that whole spat between him and Elon Musk and whoever wants to speak up
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against him.
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Like that's,
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that's kind of closed door conversation,
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right?
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You work that out.
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You keep that,
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you keep that out of the public,
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in my opinion.
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Do you feel Trump though,
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at times where he does have success,
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do you think it's intentional or just accidental?
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Like things just kind of half,
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haphazardly come together and he just claims the win.
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Look,
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unfortunately in each of these situations that I think,
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evil comes about, the person is not open to collaboration.
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The person is not open to being in a discussion that brings together multiple ideas
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and then work out as best a solution as you can.
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Trump, unfortunately, besides being vulgar and crass, doesn't respect.
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He speaks badly about anybody who disagrees with him.
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He calls them communists.
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He calls them weak.
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He calls them all kinds of names.
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But he doesn't say, okay, I want to talk with them.
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Let's sit down and talk about what's the best way to go forward.
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And that was my sense when I was in the Middle East.
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Those people never understood that both sides had reasonable claims to their position.
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It wasn't that the Israelis were correct or that the Palestinians were correct.
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They both had legitimate claims that needed to be listened to.
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And unfortunately, the powers that be continued to vilify the other side.
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Right. Right. Well, that's not uncommon though. Each side thinks they're right. Each side thinks that they're owed whatever it is they believe is owed to them. That situation, that goes back a very long ways. It really does.
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I don't know if we're ever going to come to a solution
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as far as that goes.
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I would hope so.
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I mean, I don't think that the Palestinian people themselves
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need to be caught in the middle
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between what's allegedly happening
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between Hamas and Israel.
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But it's just sad that I think
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that those people have to go through this
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and they're the ones being stuck in the middle
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between the two fighting
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and they're being used.
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They're being used, not just as shields,
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but as sympathy cards.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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On both sides.
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Yeah, they are.
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So again, that's the problem.
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The problem is that, to me, has all the makings of evil.
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Us versus them, power over behavior.
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I'm stronger than you, so I'll fuck you up.
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Right.
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Part of English.
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Put a blunt, yeah.
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Simplistic solutions.
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I'll blow the hell out of Gaza and Hamas will disappear.
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Right, which is not the right solution
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And not tell the truth about the political realities
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That are governing why these people are behaving this way
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The powers are behaving this way
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Netanyahu has all kinds of political agenda
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That have nothing to do with Hamas
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And yet that will be his calling card
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I'm going to save Israelis from Hamas.
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So what do you think?
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So what is his actual political, okay, example of his political agenda outside of he's going to save Israel from Hamas.
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What do you think it is he wants to achieve?
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He wants to maintain power.
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Well, yeah.
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Right?
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He is in cahoots with the ultra-Orthodox, and he needs their support.
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He has been much like Trump.
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He has been indicted on a number of crimes that he does not want to sit before the court.
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In fact, he's trying to change the nature of the court.
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So those other agenda are part of what are driving him to do what he does.
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Okay.
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And so how do you feel about the sudden thinning out or pulling out of our embassies in the Middle East right now?
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Is it basically you think the U.S. or Trump saying, hey, I had nothing to do with this.
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Now who's doing whatever he's going to do?
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We can't stop him.
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We can't control him.
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He's not listening.
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The reports are there is a verge of, well, they're on the verge of attacking Iran, for example.
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Yes.
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Which is what the hot topic is, which is a bad thing regardless.
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What do you think the move was there then as far as Trump or this administration trying to pull out?
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concerned, Trump thought he had
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an easy solution to the situation
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in the Middle East. He thought he had an easy solution
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to the Russian-Ukraine war. Neither one of those
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things are turning out to be easy solutions and require a lot
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more in-depth
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analysis and discussion than he understood.
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now he sees that Netanyahu is as crazy as he is
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and that Netanyahu can't be dealt with
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in a way that he anticipated Netanyahu would be
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and it scares him to think that all of a sudden
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the Middle East is going to blow up into a major
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conflagration
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I mean they were always on the verge since the beginning of time it seems as well
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so let's talk about that Ukraine piece then
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so does the world
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really seem
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both the world blames the US for that
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situation for whatever reason
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do you think that Trump
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is really the blame for this situation
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and is it solely
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the blame for what situation
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in Ukraine and Russia
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yeah I think
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the one
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to blame there is another
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egomaniac named Putin
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Right. And Putin was determined to make a greater Soviet Union again. Yeah. And he's thought he again misread simplistic solution to a complex problem. He misread the situation in the Ukraine that they would be easy marks for him to march in and him take over part of their territory.
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so again it starts I think with Putin unfortunately again Trump being who he is
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and his sense that he has this
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charisma that can make other people bend to his ways thought that Putin would come around and he
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would come up with an alliance and they would solve the Russian-Ukraine problem, just like
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he did with Netanyahu.
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Unfortunately, he's dealing with people who are much the same as he is.
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And then you got guys like Erdogan and Turkey and Orban and Hungary, all these people that
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he aligns himself with that are also of the same ilk.
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I mean, think about the simplistic solutions that he's coming up with while he's alienating NATO, our historic allies, making like they are robbing us.
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That's such misinformation.
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Again, it's so interesting.
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Have you been in Europe recently?
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No, I have not.
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Europe is so far ahead of us in their lifestyle.
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They have buses that don't give off emissions.
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They have lights when you go into the room to go on and off.
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They have escalators at the airport that shut down if there's nobody running on them.
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They have streets that are paved.
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We're becoming a third world country.
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He's telling everybody we're the greatest country in the world.
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My eyes tell me that you go to a place like Spain or France, they live so much healthier lifestyles.
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They take breaks in the middle of the day.
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They don't work the number of hours we work.
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I've heard that.
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They get all these benefits that he calls the socialist conspiracy.
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They get their medicine paid for.
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They get their education paid for.
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They get their home schooling paid for for their children And we talking about them like they crazy people We aren getting the facts out there for us to listen to
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Yeah, but our situation has gone.
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This is years in the making.
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This isn't specific to any Republican or Democratic president regardless.
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It's been going on for quite some time.
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But it's been taken to an extreme.
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Well, it has because people tend to not like Trump and, you know, call it what you will.
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But when, you know, when everybody is doing everything they can to focus the messaging
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on Trump, bad, hate Trump, he's going to be the scapegoat of everything.
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Now he's not perfect.
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I've already admitted that.
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And he does do some stupid things.
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I mean, we can't, I'm not going to sit here and pat him on the back all day.
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Cause I can't, you know, we can't deny it.
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It's like, I scratch my head constantly.
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Like, what, what are you doing?
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You know, sometimes I'm like, okay, you got something, but then you got a question.
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Well, was that accidental?
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Did it just, was it really planned?
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I have no idea.
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He's definitely going to be studied for years, I believe.
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Now, as far as Ukraine goes, let's talk about that because that whole thing started way back.
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In fact, during the Obama administration, everybody turned their back when Russia took over Crimea and it was annexed.
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Nobody stepped in to help Ukraine at that point.
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Here we go.
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fast forward, Russia's trying to do it again because, as you said, Putin wants to reunite
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the old USSR. That's always been his goal. He's never hit it. He's said it many, many, many times.
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He's getting older. There's a legacy issue for him. He's getting older. He's been in power for
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a long time. I think it's now or never for him. Now, I call this a cold World War III because
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reality is China is involved. They have troops there, although they're claiming they're not
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involved in the war. They have North Korean troops there, and Iran has been sending technology and
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drones and other things to support this war as well. Everybody else has done nothing. Let's just
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be quite honest. Europe hasn't done anything. Kerr Starmer talks loud. Macron talks loud.
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Nobody does a thing. The United Kingdom signed a hundred year agreement with Ukraine way before
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the incident happened in the White House between Zelensky and Trump, by the way. Signed in January
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January 2025, where they committed to build up their economic trade, okay, using, by the way,
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UK trade partners and trade channels. They were going to bolster their business,
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help them with their minerals, and protect them. A hundred-year agreement that was signed January
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2025. Nothing has happened. Nothing outside of maybe sending a little bit of money. Maybe they
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get a little bit of munitions. Even Keir Starmer said, hey, we're going to go ahead and we're going
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to ramp everything up. We're going to put boots on the ground. Hasn't happened. Nobody's putting
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boots on the ground. It doesn't matter who it is. Yet the US is blamed for the whole thing because
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we're seen as a superpower. What's stopping Europe? Poland is on the ready. Poland has been very,
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very much on the ready, protecting their border and ready to go. But the reality is nobody wants
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a nuclear war. Nobody wants to admit that. No one's really coming out and say that. That's the
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only reason they're letting Putin do what he, you know, doing anything he does. Now you take that
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into account that China, anytime they're saying they don't support this, but yet they're sending
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troops and then they're playing games over there in Taiwan. So this situation is bad regardless.
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If Europe steps in, if Europe steps in, China might say, cool, here's our opportunity. While
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everybody's focused over here in the U.S. might have to go and help their allies, they're going
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to move in on Taiwan, right? So while the U.S. gets the blame and Trump gets the blame, this
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thing was debacled. This was a mess since Obama. Nothing happened under the Biden administration
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either. Nobody wanted to step foot. Everybody talked loud. Nobody did anything. I personally
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think it's time to pull our heads out of our ass. Trump needs to go in and we need to do something
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because we also have an agreement with the Ukraine. Are we really going to be protecting them? Is the
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UK going to protect them? Or is everybody just going to posture and try to win brownie points
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in the media by saying, hey, I'm speaking tough to Putin. Putin don't give a damn.
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Putin can care less.
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He's already called everybody's bluff.
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So what's the next step?
30:11
We could point the finger at who's to blame, but who's going to step up?
30:15
I don't want to talk about who's to blame.
30:18
No, I know.
30:19
But everyone's doing that right now.
30:20
So I'm saying, like, who's going to step up?
30:22
We need a solution.
30:23
We need a solution.
30:23
Absolutely.
30:24
This goes back to the fall of the Russian Empire.
30:28
Yes.
30:28
Yes. Yes. We made some very tactical errors in closing in on Russia with NATO.
30:37
Yeah. I don't disagree with that, by the way. I think that was a bad move. It really was.
30:42
It was a bad move. And I think what we created going way back, so we're going back into the 20th century, that lots of errors have been made, a lot of simplistic solutions to complex problems.
30:59
True.
31:00
I'm not here to blame Trump for having caused this.
31:05
What I do concern myself with is when he says things like the Ukraine attacked Russia, that those kinds of misinformation are problematic.
31:21
And I agree with you. I do. I think that's wrong.
31:24
And I'm agreeing with you, too. I mean, it's very scary because if we back Russia into a position where they feel they have to strike out with nuclear weapons, we'll have a horrendous situation.
31:40
So we don't want to do that. But it's very important, I think, for the United States to stand with its allies and say, we will confront this together, not to blame them, not to distort this as we have no problem with Russia. We do.
32:02
The Russian situation is problematic for us and for them.
32:08
And I keep coming back to this.
32:10
The solutions are collaborative.
32:12
The solutions are discussion.
32:15
The solutions are looking at both sides of an issue.
32:19
Russia needs protection.
32:21
Russia needs to know that NATO is not going to infringe upon them.
32:25
Right.
32:26
Russia needs to know that they're going to have access to selling their goods again and building back their economy.
32:36
There needs to be people coming together, collaborating in a sensible dialogue instead of us against them, whoever them is.
32:49
You're spot on there because everybody wants to be, everyone wants to take credit.
32:56
at this point, right?
32:58
The UK wants to be the one to say,
32:59
look at the solution I have.
33:01
We're the hero.
33:02
France, same thing.
33:03
Obviously, Trump's doing the same thing.
33:06
It's a really dire situation
33:08
because the people are suffering,
33:09
the people in the Ukraine, period.
33:12
Zelensky cannot win this war.
33:15
He can't on his own.
33:17
Like I said, everybody's sending munitions and money,
33:19
but that's not going to win it.
33:21
It's going to have to be numbers,
33:24
bodies, boots, period.
33:25
That's the only thing that's going to work.
33:28
But people don't realize it.
33:29
I'm concerned if you start setting boots in, things escalate.
33:34
Exactly.
33:34
That's the crux of it, right?
33:37
That's the crux of it.
33:38
So again, you're very knowledgeable about this, George, but my sense is both sides have reasonable positions that need to be heard.
33:49
Agreed.
33:49
Agreed.
33:50
And I was going to echo what you said earlier.
33:52
Trump is a success in this last election.
33:55
Okay.
33:55
Because he heard the voices of people who were in pain.
34:01
That the Democrats were talking about all kinds of, what's the word for it?
34:12
Social issues like should transgender people play sports?
34:18
Right.
34:18
Rather than talk about the price of eggs, rather than talk about the fact that people are feeling cut off and they don't have access.
34:28
Again, this country cannot operate without immigrants, even illegal immigrants.
34:36
Right.
34:36
What's happening in my own community?
34:38
I was sitting in a diner the other day in Salem, Massachusetts, and the waitress said to me, you know what's happened?
34:46
none of the Hispanic people come here anymore.
34:49
They're all frightened.
34:50
They're all frightened that they're going to get rounded up.
34:53
There used to be all these workers at Home Depot
34:56
who would line up there every morning to help contractors
35:00
and landscapers and all kinds.
35:03
They don't come there anymore because they're afraid
35:05
they're going to be targeted and arrested.
35:08
We need these people.
35:10
There aren't poor people who want to do what the day laborers do
35:15
who are illegal immigrants.
35:19
Our country will,
35:20
you guys out in California
35:22
will have no more avocados
35:24
if you don't have those people.
35:27
Yeah.
35:28
Well, our avocados were pretty much
35:29
given away to Mexico
35:30
as it was as far as an industry.
35:32
It started in California
35:33
and now we import it all from Mexico.
35:35
So here's that with avocados.
35:38
I don't disagree with your statements.
35:40
This is a tricky situation
35:41
because I think that
35:43
we need to enforce policies
35:45
to protect our sovereignty and our borders,
35:47
but we shouldn't be targeting everybody
35:49
who looks like an illegal immigrant.
35:52
You have to do your research.
35:54
That's right.
35:55
And he, Trump, said he was going to go after
35:59
those people who were criminals.
36:01
Yes, that was what he said.
36:02
That's what he said, but he's not doing that.
36:05
He's going into places like the Home Depot
36:07
and rounding up everybody who's brown.
36:11
Yeah, they're casting too wide of a net on this.
36:12
I mean, I believe you and I may be in agreement on this.
36:18
They should just go after the people with the criminal records that are obviously not legal, but have a criminal background.
36:23
They need to be addressed, period.
36:25
The way this law even works, even if you have a green card, by the way, if you commit a crime, you are still eligible to be deported.
36:34
You're not safe in that either until that you actually become a citizen.
36:38
As far as you said with the legal workers that will do the work in the fields, we do need them.
36:43
Now, at that point, though, if they did this legally, they're not illegal.
36:47
They do get a visa in which they are allotted a certain amount of time to stay here and work under a legal status.
36:54
We are in total agreement.
36:56
Yeah.
36:57
There needs to be laws that are reasonable that can be enforced.
37:02
Absolutely.
37:02
And we can't just have porous borders where anybody can cross over and do that.
37:09
Again, it requires people working together to sensibly work out and collaborate together to make regulations and rules that work and that are in the best interest of everyone.
37:24
Agreed.
37:25
We need to do better, period.
37:26
Yes, we need to do better.
37:28
It wouldn't look so drastic if we didn't let it get to this point.
37:31
The problem I'm having with the way Trump is handling this, like I said, I agree with trying to clean up the mess, but he's taking a hammer and just hitting, it's like playing whack-a-mole on whatever, right?
37:41
He's bringing down a hammer instead of using the term kid gloves.
37:45
Like, hey, let's be gentle about this.
37:47
Let's try to approach this amicably.
37:51
Because what gets me is this.
37:54
When you have a family and you're just taking the mother away after being here for 10 to 25 years.
37:59
Now, I'll just put this out there, and you might disagree with me.
38:03
It doesn't matter how long you've been here.
38:04
If you committed the crime of coming over illegally, it's going to catch up to you eventually.
38:09
Just as if I robbed a bank, got away with it for 20 years, and all of a sudden the FBI finds out where I am and knocks on my door, that's serving justice.
38:15
But in this case, with a family, do you think, and I think this, by the way, should you not take that situation differently?
38:24
Should you not say, okay, look, there's a family here.
38:26
She's already, this mother or this dad has children, been here for 10, 15 years, maybe negotiate to work out a program with them that they can take steps to make them legal or give them an extension.
38:38
Say, all right, here's what's going on.
38:40
We need you to do this and we'll let you stay here for six months, for example, to get everything straight.
38:46
How do you feel about that as a solution to those problems?
38:50
George, I'm impressed that you're a sensible man.
38:54
I try to be.
38:55
And that of course there has to be sensible mechanisms for evaluating a situation You have a situation where you have a family where the children are in fact Americans
39:13
Yeah.
39:14
They were born here and the parents came in here illegally.
39:17
we need to come up with ways of saying okay it's in the family's best interest in the community's
39:25
best interest to give those people a mechanism for becoming citizens it's much like we talked
39:32
about dreamers at one point right that they had mechanisms for becoming citizens we can't do
39:39
things with a hammer we can't do things with broad us and they statements that anybody who was
39:46
not born here has to be eliminated.
39:51
We need to think about what are the effects on families,
39:55
on the community, on industries.
39:59
And that requires us all sitting down,
40:01
people like you and me, talking about reasonable solutions.
40:06
Yeah. No, you're correct.
40:08
You're correct. I'm with you.
40:13
I got my moments.
40:14
I'm never always correct.
40:15
I mean, I never always get it right.
40:17
Believe me.
40:18
It's too hard.
40:19
It's too hard to be, you know, to have a definite answer to these things, as you said, because, you know, there's a lot of gray area that's always ignored.
40:28
It's not a black.
40:29
Nothing's black and white.
40:30
You know, everybody lives in the gray.
40:32
We got to admit that.
40:32
Nobody looks at it that way, at least right now with everything going on.
40:36
It's just black, white, done.
40:38
No, there's a big gray area that everybody lives in, period.
40:41
Yes.
40:41
It's not being addressed.
40:42
Again, that requires sensibility.
40:44
I was going to say this before.
40:47
There was a philosopher named Levi Strauss.
40:50
Do you know of him?
40:51
I heard the name.
40:52
I don't know the word.
40:53
He taught at the University of Chicago.
40:56
He was a Holocaust victim in Germany.
41:01
He escaped from Germany and taught philosophy at the University of Chicago.
41:09
And many of his students were the neocons who worked in the Bush I, Bush II administration.
41:24
Okay.
41:25
And Strauss said, it's in the best interest of the community to lie to them if they can't understand the issues.
41:38
make up excuses
41:40
such as
41:43
weapons of mass destruction.
41:47
Right.
41:47
Make up those situations
41:49
and that will give you access
41:52
to taking care of the people
41:54
in the way that they
41:56
should be taken care of.
41:59
Unfortunately, I think
42:00
Leo Strauss made a terrible error.
42:03
You know,
42:03
Plato,
42:05
Plato in the Republic,
42:06
many, many generations ago,
42:09
said that philosophers should be king.
42:14
Unfortunately, nobody listens to them.
42:17
They're the first ones to know there's a problem,
42:20
but the last one to have any impact.
42:22
So Strauss said, well, I'm not going to wait for Plato's solution
42:26
to teach the people.
42:27
We got to do it and protect people.
42:30
Unfortunately, that's too often what is happening now in our country.
42:36
That's been the playbook, yeah, for a while.
42:38
Right, that's the playbook.
42:39
Tell people what they can understand, even if it's not the truth, and come up with solutions that they can buy into.
42:49
And that's not just one side or the other.
42:53
That's not taking responsibility for saying, I don't have a solution that you'll buy into.
42:59
Let's sit down, and I'm going to keep saying this.
43:01
Let's come up with dialogue.
43:03
Let's come up with consensus.
43:04
let's come up with mechanisms that bring people to listen to one another you and i don't agree
43:12
about everything but we agree about enough that we can sit down and we can talk and we can look for
43:17
commonality that goes forward i think i think the the opposition of opinions is how you come to a
43:25
solution in the middle i mean if you can't hear each other out you're never going to come up with
43:29
the solution. You're just going to continue to be segregated, right, left, whatever. It's just
43:35
ridiculous. If you can't sit down and talk about these issues, deal with your own emotions,
43:42
angers, whatever it is, you have to be able to sit down, check that shit at the door,
43:47
and just talk about the issues. I'll ask you, Evan, what's your view on this? Great. I'll take
43:53
it in. I'll give you mine. Same thing. And then in our minds, we're calculating. I don't agree with
43:58
that, but he made a point here. And then we bring those back together and we say, all right, here's
44:02
what we have. We got kind of an outline he can start with and we just hash it out, right?
44:07
That's the way it should be. That's what I'm promulgating. That's my thesis.
44:11
Let's sit down. Let's hear each other. Let's understand what you need, what I need.
44:16
Let's come up with a solution. You know, there was a time when Congress worked that way
44:21
for various other reasons. You know, I'll give you something for your farmers. You give me
44:26
something for my industrial people.
44:29
We'll bother
44:30
solutions together.
44:32
We don't do that anymore.
44:34
No, they don't. It's either this or nothing.
44:37
Yes.
44:38
Especially how they pack everything with all this
44:40
pork and try to sneak
44:42
things in with these 5,000 pages they know nobody's
44:44
going to read. Who has time for that?
44:46
It's like, hey, we released this report. Here's Thursday. We're voting
44:48
on a Friday. Who has time
44:50
for that? It's ridiculous.
44:53
And it's always a one-sided
44:54
issue. Always one
44:56
cited. And it's very ridiculous because it does leave a lot of people out, the needs of the actual
45:00
people. That's what I'm getting tired of in America right now. I don't care who the president is,
45:04
by the way. The reality is this country has not been looking out for its people.
45:09
They've been playing on emotions. It's like you said earlier. I don't know if I'm correct on this,
45:14
but it's kind of an example of what you were talking about earlier with Levi Strauss, for
45:17
example, is that power over behavior, right? To me, I look at it from like a business owner,
45:25
okay
45:25
the government
45:27
is playing a
45:28
PSYOP
45:29
and they have
45:30
an amazing
45:30
marketing team
45:31
and they know
45:32
how to pull on
45:33
your emotions
45:34
pull on your
45:35
heart strings
45:35
to direct you
45:36
where they want
45:37
you to go
45:38
they're playing
45:38
chess with us
45:39
basically
45:40
that's exactly
45:41
what they're doing
45:41
you know
45:42
we're the pawns
45:43
yes
45:44
and unfortunately
45:45
we keep playing
45:45
into their hand
45:46
they keep segregating
45:48
us
45:48
so George
45:48
how did you
45:48
get into this
45:49
I don't know
45:50
just kind of
45:52
happened
45:52
just kind of
45:54
happened
45:54
well
45:54
I like your sensibility.
45:56
I started with my brother.
45:59
So he's been a podcaster for probably nine, eight, nine years now.
46:04
And I started on his show a little bit here and there.
46:08
And I've always been into politics, philosophy, everything.
46:12
I'm not as educated as you in it, by the way.
46:14
I can't just call people's names out in quotes, but I do like it.
46:19
And I've been interested in politics for a very long time.
46:21
Now, the reason I got into this is because I hear a lot of people talk.
46:24
I hear these shows.
46:25
I hear these talking heads that are just reading whatever script on the teleprompter.
46:29
And I hear a lot of these other podcasters.
46:31
And I'm like, they don't know what they're talking about.
46:34
Or if they do make a point, I just got to a position in my life where I said, you know
46:39
what?
46:39
I have nothing to lose.
46:41
Why don't I get on the mic and see if I can make a difference or at least vent or say
46:46
what's off the top of my head.
46:48
But I'll admit, I say some outlandish shit sometimes.
46:50
It's like, I know that I'll say something and later on go, eh, you know, probably should
46:55
kind of reel that one back a little because we do this in real time.
46:59
I like your sensibility.
47:01
I hope that you get heard by lots of people because you're making sense.
47:07
I appreciate that.
47:08
Thank you.
47:09
But the problem with doing this, Evan, is we respond in real time, right?
47:16
And I've said this before with other people.
47:18
And I've had YouTubers.
47:19
I've, I've speak to people in the Intel community, people in the military.
47:22
Like I've had very various guests and people I connect with since I've been
47:26
doing this.
47:27
And you're always right today, wrong tomorrow.
47:31
You can't keep up with the news cycle.
47:33
You can't keep up with what's happening, you know,
47:35
and we live in a world of sound bites and clips.
47:38
You know, we always get just a snippet of the actual information, right?
47:42
Everything you see on social media, you never see the full video clip.
47:45
You just see that one moment where they see the white guy being racist.
47:49
for example, or the brown guy getting arrested.
47:53
I'm not going to say whether those particular situations are right or wrong,
47:56
but we don't see the, we don't get the whole context of what's happening.
47:59
And people just eat it up and they're conditioning us.
48:03
Just as you said, they're conditioning us with this. It's a, it's a tool.
48:06
I go back a long way. I, I, um,
48:10
was a medic during the Vietnam war.
48:14
I decided when I got out of the army, I was going to go to graduate school in psychology and do good.
48:23
And some of the things that I worked on turned into such disasters.
48:30
For example, I was part of a class action suit that took adolescents and children off adult psychiatric units.
48:40
so that they were being treated back in the 1960s and 70s amongst adult crazies.
48:50
And it was totally inappropriate.
48:54
Then I was part of an action to close down mental hospitals.
48:59
Well, we had a daily census in Massachusetts of between 30,000 and 50,000 patients
49:06
in psychiatric hospitals, state hospitals, back in that era.
49:11
You know where they are now?
49:13
No.
49:14
They're homeless.
49:16
Well.
49:16
There's the same number of people in Massachusetts who are on the streets.
49:21
I was, since you brought that up, I've had that opinion because I've known people who are in various organizations
49:31
that would serve the homeless community.
49:34
Yes.
49:34
And I hate to say this, but the truth of the matter is exactly what you said.
49:40
Most of these people have been abandoned by the state, the government.
49:44
They're no longer getting funded.
49:45
They're not getting their medication, not getting care, and they're left out in the cold to figure it out.
49:49
They can't rejoin society because they're not capable.
49:53
They're not capable of it.
49:54
Yeah.
49:55
It's not that they're not smart, for example.
49:57
It was just they lack those social skills or whatever it is that will allow them to reenter.
50:02
They're truly sick people.
50:04
And the fact is, we, in doing our do-gooding, closed the mental hospitals.
50:11
Well, it's not by chance.
50:13
That's the same number of people that today are on the street.
50:19
Okay, let's get back to that.
50:21
What was behind closing that?
50:23
What was behind closing the mental hospitals?
50:25
Did they claim it was financial?
50:27
Was it like, what was the reason?
50:29
No, they claimed that the people weren't being treated adequately.
50:31
They weren't being treated humanely.
50:34
Really?
50:34
Well, again, in retrospect, they were being treated more humanely in a mental hospital than they are today on the street, sleeping in their feces.
50:43
So, again, we thought we were getting them to a place where they could be treated within the community and cared for by the community.
50:52
The community didn't want them.
50:55
You know, we tried to set up halfway houses.
50:57
Nobody wanted one in their neighborhood, not my neighborhood.
51:00
I don't want to be part of the solution.
51:02
there's I mean
51:04
you know because this is what you did
51:06
I don't but
51:08
from what I've read and what I've
51:10
seen documentaries
51:12
and what not not an expert
51:14
but the
51:16
mental hospitals were definitely an issue
51:18
when
51:19
psychology was in its infant stages
51:23
when it was very experimental still
51:24
they're trying to figure that out but it did get to a point
51:26
where they got
51:28
a handle on the abuse
51:30
but yet even after that
51:32
It did get better, but they still decided this isn't good enough to put these people out on the street.
51:37
That's just crazy.
51:39
I've worked with Jako Sekala, for example, who's from Finland.
51:44
And back in the Scandinavian countries, the community works together to treat the people in the community who are sick.
51:56
They pitch in.
51:58
They all have roles.
51:59
They're small, homogeneous communities that care
52:04
for their own. Our communities are too diverse. People don't care about what's happening down the
52:13
street. It's unfortunate. Churches no longer... When I first started doing psychotherapy,
52:23
I spoke at every church in my town. They all called me in to talk about how they can work
52:28
together to do things in their own community. But people don't go to church anymore.
52:32
No. Let me ask you this. Why do you think people don't care, though, when it comes to the people on the streets and the homeless?
52:39
It's not me. It's them. It's us versus them. I'm not that problem.
52:46
Understood. I get that. But what caused that? I remember a time where people were more generous.
52:52
And then I think it was sometime in the 90s, it just kind of flipped.
52:57
Like all of a sudden, people just stopped caring.
53:00
Yes.
53:01
They weren't giving them a dollar, for example, or buying people food.
53:05
I'm going to say this because I've experienced this myself, and I know this from inside information with people who work in the missions and whatnot.
53:12
There are literally people who gave up on society, not just sick, but they just don't want to deal with anything.
53:18
And they find that living on the street suits them better.
53:21
That's not the majority, by the way, but those people are there.
53:24
There's some.
53:24
Yeah. And I think that people stop caring because they realized, you know, with all the stories coming out and they themselves just being scammed. Like even in my town, we would see the same person pull the same scam over and over for two, three years, always pregnant, always just got dropped off at the bus.
53:43
one year I recognized her and realized, hey, weren't you just saying this like last year?
53:50
Yeah, you're still pregnant with the same baby. And I think those unfortunate circumstances,
53:57
those unfortunate examples, by the way, is what led people to stop caring. They just feel like
54:02
I'm not making a difference. And these people are just trying to take advantage of me.
54:05
When I went to school, I started college in 1964, and I went through to get my doctorate.
54:19
Back then, all the smart people that I knew were going into professions like psychology or medicine, nursing, education, law.
54:32
they all had a mission to make the community better
54:37
sometime after the Vietnam War sometime around the time of Ronald Reagan
54:43
the ethos changed to I'm going to make money I'm going to be a successful business person
54:50
the smart people went to either business school or engineering yeah and they no longer had a vested
55:01
interest in making the community better, they came to the notion that they're going to make
55:07
their own lives better. And I think that has persisted. I know with even my grandchildren,
55:14
I have a grandson that graduated high school last week, and he's going to go to the business school
55:22
at Boston College. And I said, why are you doing that? He said, what do you mean, why am I doing
55:27
that. He said, I'm really smart. I'm going to be really successful. I'm going to make a lot of
55:31
money. I said, but you know what? You are so smart. You are so capable of making the world a better
55:40
place. Why aren't you thinking in those terms? He said, come on, granddad. Come on. Grandpa,
55:46
you're talking like those hippies that you grew up with.
55:52
I don't
55:56
I mean now that you say it
55:57
I do see that
55:59
there's been less interest in
56:01
professions that actually serve the community
56:03
or even consider the humanitarian
56:05
effort right
56:06
and even the arts is on the decline
56:09
I believe
56:10
yeah even the arts
56:11
it's sad
56:13
and yes the 80s was the age of business
56:16
the power suit, the power tie, the whole deal
56:18
it was all about more and more money
56:20
That's when the stock market just, it was just crazy.
56:26
Yeah, you may, I think you're onto something there.
56:29
You know definitely It was a me first attitude that really started this It went from a community concern to me first Yeah absolutely
56:39
It was a me first attitude.
56:42
Let's get back to California a bit.
56:45
And it's not just California.
56:46
I mean, there's the big organized protests on June 14th, Trump's birthday or the Army's birthday, however you want to look at that.
56:56
Let me ask you this.
56:58
What are your thoughts of what happened in California, though?
57:02
I mean, we did discuss some of it already, but the fighting, infighting between the governor,
57:10
you know, Newsom, Karen Bass, the lack of response.
57:15
Again, this isn't me saying right versus left, Trump versus whatever.
57:20
This is literally pointing out, I believe, the error and the lack of response to a situation.
57:28
what do you think the reasoning was behind that aside,
57:31
aside from political theater?
57:34
Why did Karen Bass not respond with the police and not,
57:39
didn't have to be in a violent way just to control, just have a presence.
57:43
And why did governor Newsom not respond either? What's,
57:48
what's your thoughts on that?
57:50
Well, I don't know if I'm the right person to respond to that,
57:53
but I thought they did respond. Okay.
57:56
I thought that they were concerned that, and this is, I'm concerned about it in my own community.
58:04
I'm joining an action committee to protect immigrants, that you can't have ICE come into your community and rip people out of their homes, out of their jobs.
58:20
Yeah, we discussed, we agree with that, yeah.
58:22
I think that it was a huge provocation on the part of the federal government to start mobilizing.
58:33
We had a situation a couple of weeks ago in Nantucket where they rounded up 44 people who worked in hotels and restaurants in Nantucket and put them in a boat and took them away.
58:45
They had no due process.
58:47
So I think their first concern was that you can't go into a community and do this without people being offended, without people being put in danger.
59:03
And my sense is that there has been a response on the part of California government.
59:11
There was enough police that kept it contained.
59:15
There was some bad apples, but they mostly contained to a small area the provocators.
59:26
So I think Trump came in with his guys escalating the crisis to something that was way beyond what really was called for.
59:40
The National Guard, the Marines.
59:42
the Marines should never be deployed on
59:45
on US Soil against Citizens period
59:48
that's not what they do
59:49
and the same thing
59:51
what are the National Guard doing
59:53
2,000 National Guardsmen are protecting the federal
59:56
buildings come on
59:57
the police have to do this
59:59
that's a bit much
1:00:01
honestly but
1:00:03
the lack of response I was
1:00:05
referring to was yes the police were there
1:00:07
but they
1:00:09
did not get deployed until
1:00:11
Trump said he was going to send the National Guard.
1:00:15
I don't know if that.
1:00:16
Yeah.
1:00:17
And even Newsom refused to send in the National Guard.
1:00:21
Now, I agree with you that I don't think there was a need for it.
1:00:24
There's more than enough law enforcement out there to handle the situation.
1:00:27
There really is.
1:00:27
Right.
1:00:29
Was the National Guard needed?
1:00:30
I don't believe in this situation, but yet they were called in 1992 during the Rodden
1:00:34
King riots.
1:00:35
There were many examples of when the National Guard was called to control riots and protests
1:00:39
that just got out of hand.
1:00:41
Yes. The response of the National Guard being sent and taken over the president is a lawful order.
1:00:47
And actually, if you go to the National Guard's website, it even says it right there.
1:00:49
You can be called by any time by any governor and the president of the United States.
1:00:53
So I'm just going to put that out there because that is fact.
1:00:56
But was it needed No I don think so No again I not saying it illegal I saying it provocative I know you aren It was provocative today that the FBI handcuffed threw Senator Padilla to the ground
1:01:13
I got to look at that.
1:01:14
That's crazy.
1:01:16
It's all over the news today.
1:01:17
Yeah.
1:01:18
And handcuffed him.
1:01:20
That's not how you treat people.
1:01:23
if you treat a United States Senator that way,
1:01:27
how is the little guy who works at the local?
1:01:33
Yeah. How are they going to feel? How are they going to feel?
1:01:34
How are they going to be treated? Absolutely. So I didn't see it.
1:01:38
I didn't see the reports. I don't know why I did. This wasn't on my radar.
1:01:40
It's what I do. It's crazy. So, so what were the circumstances?
1:01:43
Like he was doing nothing other than, Hey,
1:01:46
I'm going to question you on what you're doing and what's happening.
1:01:49
That was it. Yeah.
1:01:49
Yeah, Christy Noem, the Secretary of Homeland Security, was speaking and talking about how the Democrats failed society.
1:01:59
Los Angeles would have been burnt down if it wasn't for their response.
1:02:04
And he walked up and said, I want to ask you some questions.
1:02:09
And they manhandled him.
1:02:12
They threw him down.
1:02:15
Yeah, that's not right.
1:02:17
Again, it's not right.
1:02:19
That's not how you handle things.
1:02:20
It's just out of hand.
1:02:21
And that's the problem right now with the Trump administration at this moment.
1:02:25
They had an opportunity to do the right thing.
1:02:28
The actions like this does not work in their favor.
1:02:30
This just supports what people are saying about him being authoritarian or even tyrannical.
1:02:36
It's not a good look, period.
1:02:39
No.
1:02:40
Yeah, I got to look at that.
1:02:42
That is just crazy that they treated Padilla that way.
1:02:44
and you know
1:02:46
even in the Trump admin
1:02:48
like my brother's very adamant
1:02:49
we're not
1:02:49
we're conservative
1:02:51
but even he always says
1:02:53
on his show
1:02:54
he's like
1:02:54
I'm conservative
1:02:55
but I didn't vote for Trump
1:02:56
that's what he always says
1:02:57
he goes
1:02:57
I don't agree with how he handles himself
1:02:59
I don't think he's presidential
1:03:00
and
1:03:00
I don't think he's presidential either
1:03:03
and
1:03:04
the reality is
1:03:06
I like some of the stuff he does
1:03:07
but I mean
1:03:07
like I told you earlier
1:03:08
I scratch my head on a lot
1:03:10
I
1:03:10
it's like
1:03:11
I don't think this is the way
1:03:12
you know
1:03:13
I really don't
1:03:14
Again, my sense is you need to see people as you see yourself.
1:03:24
Agreed.
1:03:24
I mean, that's the ultimate golden rule, right?
1:03:27
Treat others as you would have them treat you.
1:03:30
Absolutely.
1:03:31
You need to have a view of the world that I'm not better or different than you are.
1:03:36
We both have interests.
1:03:38
We both have to take care of each other.
1:03:39
I absolutely agree with you.
1:03:40
I was going to say something about the Trump administration in that the other thing that stood out is the fumbling of many things that were promised that haven't been delivered.
1:03:52
We're still looking at Epstein files that are allegedly, now there's no video, there's no evidence, even though they have like a 10 plus year investigation regarding Epstein.
1:04:01
Suddenly nothing exists, nothing's viable, we can't release anything, there's nothing there, which is ridiculous.
1:04:06
and then they give the binders to a bunch of social media influencers.
1:04:12
What kind of move was that?
1:04:14
There's a lot of stupidity, I think, that is not winning the people over.
1:04:22
It really isn't.
1:04:24
He has some people in his administration that should not be in the positions they're in.
1:04:29
The one thing that was surprising to me is he does have some people
1:04:33
that were from the Democrat Party that came over,
1:04:35
But, you know, those people such as, you know, RFK Jr. and whatnot don't feel that they're part of that party anymore.
1:04:41
But still, some of his administration, even he himself, by the way, is not necessarily a true conservative.
1:04:48
I don't know where he sits.
1:04:49
I don't even know where he sits.
1:04:52
I mean, where did he come up with this tariff idea?
1:04:57
I mean, it comes from Navarro.
1:05:02
Navarro is not a credible economist.
1:05:05
And he hires Navarro to make this tariff policy for him.
1:05:12
Where does he come off in picking Hexa as the Secretary of Defense?
1:05:18
Agreed.
1:05:18
These guys have no credibility.
1:05:22
I might argue with you in that.
1:05:27
The whole tariff idea I understand what he was trying to do I not saying it was the right thing to do in modern times Okay But you know we were a tariff nation This is fact
1:05:38
We did make our money on tariffs, but it was also a different world back then.
1:05:41
It was not as interwoven as it is now.
1:05:44
You know, of course.
1:05:45
I mean, you can't make an airplane with parts just from the United States.
1:05:49
Not going to happen.
1:05:50
It's a world economy.
1:05:52
Yes.
1:05:52
It's such a myopic response.
1:05:54
Agreed.
1:05:55
It's simplistic.
1:05:55
I think Trump's approach was literally, it's a tit for tat, right?
1:06:00
Hey, you're charging me 200%.
1:06:01
We've done nothing about it.
1:06:02
Well, hell, I'm going to charge you 200% now.
1:06:05
Yeah, well, look at some of the countries he did that with.
1:06:07
It's a zero-sum game, though.
1:06:08
Matt and Gasper, who sell vanilla.
1:06:12
And of course they buy more than we buy from them.
1:06:18
Right.
1:06:20
Stupid.
1:06:21
But to me, it's a race to zero.
1:06:25
Yes.
1:06:25
Because it's meant the intention.
1:06:29
I could read right through it.
1:06:31
I understand the intention.
1:06:32
Oh, this will get people to focus on domestic production,
1:06:35
things made here in the USA.
1:06:37
Yeah, but we're not set up for that yet.
1:06:39
Like I said earlier, he uses a hammer
1:06:40
without giving a defined guided step of how to get there.
1:06:47
You can't just say we're going to turn it off now.
1:06:49
I can see this being a 10-year plan maybe,
1:06:52
even a 15-year plan, but it can't be a tomorrow plan.
1:06:54
And it's just hurting everybody.
1:06:56
In regards to what everybody says,
1:06:58
inflation might be down.
1:07:01
Yeah, exactly.
1:07:02
Simplistic solution to complex problems.
1:07:06
Agreed.
1:07:07
And inflation may be down,
1:07:08
but then the economy itself
1:07:10
is not doing so good right now.
1:07:13
It really isn't.
1:07:15
Even in my industry,
1:07:16
it's almost like they just suck the air out of it.
1:07:20
It feels almost like pandemic level business right now,
1:07:22
back in the COVID times for a lot of people in my industry and a lot of
1:07:26
industries.
1:07:27
It's,
1:07:27
it's not.
1:07:28
I mean,
1:07:30
again,
1:07:31
medicine and psychology,
1:07:34
the whole ancillary medical field is being run by large corporations that
1:07:42
are making money at the expense of the people who need to benefit from these
1:07:46
services.
1:07:48
Yeah.
1:07:48
It's,
1:07:49
we need to rethink things.
1:07:51
How is,
1:07:52
how is that?
1:07:52
George, I got to go, unfortunately.
1:07:55
Because I've enjoyed our talk.
1:07:58
I was just going to get into the insurance part of it, but that's fine.
1:08:01
I appreciate your time.
1:08:02
Tell everybody about your book, where they can get it, and how they can find you.
1:08:06
Yeah, it's on all the major outlets.
1:08:11
Amazon, you can get on it.
1:08:17
Most bookstores, you can order it through their catalogs.
1:08:22
I hope people who liked what I've had to say and the ideas that I've expressed will go out and buy the book.
1:08:29
I think it's particularly relevant to today's community.
1:08:33
No, it is.
1:08:33
And I'd love to pick this up again because it sounds like you and I have a lot to talk about.
1:08:38
Yeah, I'd love to talk with you more, George.
1:08:40
I think you're being sensible.
1:08:42
It's nice to see sensible people who are not being driven by some alternative philosophy.
1:08:49
I appreciate that.
1:08:50
And same for you.
1:08:51
I mean, it's all about what you said.
1:08:52
We need to come to the table.
1:08:53
We need to discuss these issues.
1:08:55
And we need to live in reality.
1:08:57
I mean, we need to be realistic about our approaches.
1:08:58
We need to live in reality, but we also need to listen.
1:09:00
Absolutely.
1:09:01
We need to listen to each other.
1:09:03
I agree.
1:09:03
Absolutely.
1:09:04
Thank you, Evan.
1:09:06
Thank you, George.
1:09:07
Again, I'm sure we'll talk again.
1:09:10
All right.
1:09:10
Oh, good.
1:09:11
Okay, sir.
1:09:12
Bye.
1:09:13
All right.
1:09:14
As usual, thanks for sticking around and either listening or watching or both.
1:09:19
And please like, subscribe, and share the show.
1:09:21
And as always, have a great day.
1:09:51
Bye.