Latest / Just Cut It Out Podcast / Just Cut It Out Podcast | When Breast Cancer Changes a Family: Love, Loss & Finding Purpose

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Just Cut It Out Podcast | When Breast Cancer Changes a Family: Love, Loss & Finding Purpose · Just Cut It Out Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_03: I'm Dr.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_03: Kim Brown, and this is just kind of where we talk about how the experience of a cancer diagnosis has made people think differently about what it means to them to live a good life.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: Each episode we cover a little bit of practical wisdom and a little bit of the big picture.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: What does this all mean through conversations with patients, their families, and teams who take care of them?
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_03: I am Dr.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_03: Kimberly Brown, and this is Just Cut It Out.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_03: Today, my guest is Leisha Johnson.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_03: She has walked through a breast cancer journey with two family members and has found a spark in her life to give back through leadership on the board of directors for Breast Cancer Resource Center here in Austin.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: She has some amazing experiences and hard-won wisdom to share with us.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm really looking forward to hearing more about her story and learning what I can from everything you've been through.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome, Leisha.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so happy to have you here on the podcast.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, and thank you for having me.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: Amazing.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: Well, let's start.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: What'd you say?
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: You want to start at the beginning?
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_03: Where did breast cancer first come into your awareness?
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, about 33 years ago, uh, my oldest sister was diagnosed with uh stage one breast cancer.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, she was 45 years old.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: So pretty young.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: And a surprise?
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: Quite a surprise.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and she only discovered it because she was changing jobs and had to go do uh a physical.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: And through the physical, um, they realized uh noticed a lump.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: And um it was breast cancer.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: That's amazing.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: Nowadays it seems like we do fewer and fewer physical exams, and sometimes they really do make a difference.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: And so she was caught early.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: Caught early and is still alive and well.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: Still alive and well.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: 30 uh October will be 33 years, I think she said.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I like telling those stories because so many women at the beginning of a diagnosis are like, oh my gosh, this is I'm gonna die.
• 2:08
  unknown: Yeah.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: And it is a good reminder that breast cancer is a treatable, survivable condition for many people.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, not everyone, as we're gonna talk about, but tell me what you saw in your sister when she received that news and kind of had to had to go through the treatment.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: I I think the initial reaction, it wasn't a very good one.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the doctor that she, you know, had seen she had gotten the mammogram and she went to see her primary care physician.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: And he came in.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: I I went with her to that first visit.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: I was living here in Austin, but drove back to Fort Worth, and he asked if she had seen her results yet, and she had not.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: And he looks at her chart and he says, You have breast cancer.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: And he left the room.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: So uh, you know, immediately she hears right, and I think her initial thought was, Oh my god, I am gonna die.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: But once she, you know, saw an oncologist, an amazing, amazing doctor that she worked with, they walked her through the process, but she was very strong in her faith.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: And she got, you know, lots of prayers and well-wishes and scriptures on a regular basis from friends, and and she knew of others who had gone through it.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: So she um she went through six weeks of chemo.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: They were three weeks apart and nine weeks of uh radiation therapy.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: She worked the entire time as she went through it, but she just stayed very positive through it all.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think she just her faith was strong and she just knew she could beat it.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: That was that was her attitude about it.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_03: And so you saw that, and that's kind of what you internalized of like this is how you This is how you get through it.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: Half of it is uh, you know, the mind, you know, where where you decide to, you know, focus.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what she did.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: She focused on staying positive.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: Well, um that's beautiful, and I'm I'm happy that she's still in your life and healthy.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_03: So and then so fast forward the next family member gets diagnosed.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: So Lindsay at the age of 32 uh received her diagnosis.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I remember getting a call from her mom who lives in Arlington, said, Can you get to Lindsay?
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: She has uh she just got her diagnosis and absolutely.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I, you know, drove over to Butah only to find her sitting at the table crying with her husband.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they're both, they're just devastated.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: And my words to her then was, hey, we're we're gonna fight this.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: Let's let's not get too burdened down with it because cancer, breast cancer is no longer a diagnosis, uh uh a death sentence.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, um you'll go through it.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: And she presented, she had a symptom that popped up that she noticed, right?
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, prior to that, before we any diagnosis, you know, we would you see each other on a regular basis.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I went over one day and she said, You know, I I have milk in my breast.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: Hers her baby was three years old at the time.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: And she said, It's just so unusual.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm also filling a couple of nodules.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and so you know, she kind of demonstrated and showed, you know, because she had that sensation.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: So she saw her regular doctor, her PCP and her OBGYN.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um both pretty promptly, right?
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: Very promptly.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: They saw her immediately.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think they got her in the next day and immediately said, you know what, you're you're 32, but we're doing a mammogram.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: We're not taking any chances.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think it's just something to be said about them and knowing the stats when it comes to breast cancer and the number of black women who are either misdiagnosed or have a higher mortality rate, uh, especially under 50.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: I say I don't know if they knew those numbers or what, but they were very aggressive.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_03: I listened.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_03: The patient had a symptom and the breast swelling up with fluid is is that's not the first thing you think of with cancer, but i it's a thing that you want to rule out.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: So kudos to them because that is not everybody's story.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: And she praises them, you know, when as she was going through that, because it could have just kind of been dismissed as something.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: But they immediately went in and um she had her mammogram done.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, as it turns out, yeah, there was there was cancer there.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: Not what she was feeling, but the nodules, the the the mass was was behind, you know, the fatty.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: And she had kiddos.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, she had Roland as three and an older son who uh was 14 at the time.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_03: So really hard.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I I remember you talking about um wonders and worries as being really helpful resource for the family at that time.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_03: What how did they help Lindsay and you and the rest of the family?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: Well, as soon as Lindsay got her diagnosis, um, and they partnered with uh breast cancer resource center, and they were able to get counseling for the boys, actually for the entire family, for Lindsay, for both of the boys and her husband.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, uh, but for mainly for the kids, the wonders and worries is to help navigate uh the children through.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: Explaining to them in age-appropriate terms and addressing fears and giving them support.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's wonderful, and just beneficial.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: And and and Lindsay was really amazed at how the boys would ask her questions, you know, and so they weren't they weren't afraid to talk about it.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: And so that was well, I imagine that's very helpful.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_03: When it becomes something you can't talk about, then the fears they they multiply, right?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: And keeping in mind, her oldest son uh had lost his mom uh to breast cancer just four years prior to that.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um she got a diagnosis, and I remember being there when he walked in the house and and saw them crying, and Lindsay pulls him over and explains to him, and and she just and he started to walk away and she said, Stop, tell me what you think, what's on your mind?
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: And he says, I don't want to lose another mom.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: She's breast cancer.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's amazing that he's able to say that out loud.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, so she had an aggressive form of cancer, she did, and had chemotherapy.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_03: And then through that, it sounds like your family was very supportive in a in a very helpful way, like a beautiful way.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_03: I've definitely seen all kinds of family dynamics somewhere.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: The family is trying their best, but the patient feels like they have to take care of the family.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but your family really took care of her.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: We did.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: How did you think about that?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um we unlocked it.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: Lindsay, Lindsay is fiercely independent.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: She did not ask for help.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: She we had to keep up with her, you know.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: The boys were in sports and she was doing everything.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: So it was a matter of us keeping up with her and realizing, you know, that she was she was tired.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: She her sister lived two miles away from her, Sydney.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: Sydney is her older sister and BFF, you know, and she was there daily taking care of it.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: But uh my approach became probably more of a methodology, you know, I out of love, but certainly, you know, project management skills kick in, and I needed a plan.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: I needed to know that she was going to eat every day, that the boys had a way to and from school.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: Her husband worked at night, uh, that Lindsay needed to get back and forth to her treatments.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: We're in the middle of COVID at the time.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, partnering with Sydney, you know, we sat down and and we came up with a plan for meals, for her to get meals.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: And and we were just, we were just part of a larger equation.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: She had a uh she had a big group of friends uh that I think she kind of brought together, uh, but uh a lot of folks were there to to help transporting the boys back and forth to school and um providing meals, and that's what we did.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, my husband is a cook in the family, he cooked um some.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: And we would, you know, a couple of days a week drive to Buda, deliver the meals, and uh the boys loved it.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes it was calling uh fast food and saying, hey, we're bringing fast food today when no one had time to cook.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, it was it was a really um opportunity for us to bond even more.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I think we were close as it was, but bond even more.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so we just kind of took turns going back and forth.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it was, you know, my uh I had a my son who's 23 now.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he was about 20, 20th, 19, 20 at the time.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: He would go with me and he would take care of the younger one, get him showered, ready for bed, read to him at night, and I took care of Lindsay, making sure she was all settled in bed and uh before we left them, you know, for the evening.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: Did a little bit of cleaning and stuff around the house.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: Just you know what family does.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: Well, not all families.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_03: So that's wonderful.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_03: And it sounds like you guys must have had a very strong family bond before that.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: They were both Sydney and Lindsay always say were my kids before um I had my own, you know, they were they were in my life for a long time.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: My sister-in-law shared them freely with me.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: She lived in Arlington, and they both made their way to Austin, to the Austin area.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: So they were my babies.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's beautiful.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_03: So she she got through chemo and then had surgery?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_03: And then moved into did she have treatment after surgery?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_03: She did.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: She did.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um the the surgery um revealed um it's uh some additional cancer in nodules.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: And her doctor was was surgery.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: The surgeon was absolutely amazing.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I you know, they they bond it so quickly.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: And she she got she gave Lindsay a heads up before the surgery that she thought that there may be more cancer.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: She she was very direct and eyes with the button in a very sweet way and a kind way of uh breaking that news to her.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: So although it was hard news when she when she found out for sure, she was somewhat prepared.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_03: So you think you're done with the chemo, but you're not?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: So she goes on to have additional treatment and then and then she starts to notice some pain in her pelvic area.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, she complained, you know, for a bit.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, she would, when I'd go over and visit, she, you know, put my hand on it, you know, asked me, can I can I feel it?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I couldn't really feel it.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I didn't know what to feel for.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: She knew.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so she was uh, and again, she knew her body.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and she was a big advocate for herself.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: So when she would see the doctor, she'd she'd ask for um scans.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: She says, I feel like I need scans.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: Something's not right.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and she she asked repeatedly and then insisted that uh that she had the scans done.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: And what did the scans show?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: Uh five centimeter tumor and her liver.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so now it's spread.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: Now it's spread.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: And how did how did you all process that?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: It was very difficult.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: It was difficult.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: I was there when she got the diagnosis and uh it was tough.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: I kept it together in the room uh with her and um she and her husband left.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: A bit of a mess, and then I I bawled all the way home, you know.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and then after getting getting through that, and I realized, you know, we just we had another battle in front of us.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: We had to fight even harder with her.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_03: So you gave yourself time to sort of mourn and grieve, and then went back into project management mode.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, ma'am.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: I did.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: And her mom, her mom went into, you know, that that same mode of now I've got to go find um uh I've got to go find a trial for my child.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then they they flew all over the country looking for trials.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um I said, you know, today I wish AI were were around then to where you can just go and put it in.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: But instead, you know, I had an Excel spreadsheet and it was searching every cancer center there was to try and find uh a trial for her particular diagnosis, which was really, really rare.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um so and did she end up on a trial?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: She did not.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: She did not qualify for any animal because um because of her diagnosis.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: She uh attempted to go to one in Dallas and um she got very sick.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_03: So they're looking at the the molecular sort of the the tumor gene mutations and and hers didn't line up with the therapies that were being offered at the time.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, and so then she received some palliative treatment.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_03: And that and how was the kind of mindset and approach of the family in that situation where we know we're not gonna have a cure.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um I I don't know if the reality of it actually sat in with all of us.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: So our our main thing was keeping her comfortable, uh, keeping it positive.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: Again, she still wasn't slowing down.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: She went nonstop.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: Everything she did was for our family.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when she was feeling a worse and wake over and and Roland wanted to lie on the floor and color, she'd lie down there with him somehow, make her way down there and and color with them.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um Sydney, there wasn't a day Sydney didn't come by.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: She was always there, you know, doing something, taking care of her her baby sister, you know.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: So we just we just surrounded her with love and and did all we could to make her comfortable, continuing to do research, Joe, thinking surely, surely there's something out there.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_03: A new trial's gonna open up soon.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: So we were still constantly on um the various sites, trying to see what see what we could find.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: And and how long did you have her at uh when was that diagnosis?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm trying to remember when that was.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: She died uh March 14th, 2023.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um but I think Lindsay knew at Christmas around December that she I think she knew she was not gonna make it.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: We had our last Christ Christmas at our home.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: We we hosted Christmas every year, and uh it was a lot of tears that that Christmas.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: It was uh there were a lot of tears.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and not all of us really understood what was what was going on.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: Uh she was she seemed sad, and uh you know we took family photos and everything, but uh look back at those photos now and and just realize that there was a lot going on.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: A lot to process.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_03: And how has this how did that experience change you?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_03: What how you chose to spend your time, what you thought was most important?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um I soon after that, I think I that was when I kind of made up my mind I was gonna retire a second time and um get involved in in organizations that that really matter, that not that what my work was insignificant, but that this, you know, breast cancer resource center was um they offer so much to women and men who are battling breast cancer, and I realized that that's where I wanted to spend my time is helping others and making sure others have the support that they need.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: Because as you said, not all families come together and there were many, many people who did not get that kind of support.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: So making sure we were getting the word out regarding what we could do to help others so that no one has to fight this alone, because a lot of people do.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_03: But a lot of people do for a variety of different reasons.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_03: Some f from you know, having lost family members or sometimes just the they're alone because the work schedules keep people, you know, they work at night or they're working during the day and can't take time off.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, that's that um that's really hard.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's a hard thing to go through with family support.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: And Lizzie lived life to the fullest, I will tell you, as she as she felt like, or I I think she knew uh I know that she spoke to her mother-in-law at some point in January, and she said, I'm I'm dying.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: And um there were some things that you know she wanted to do, and um I had to fight with her to finally convince her to do the GoFundMe.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, because there were some, you know, she wanted, you know, the bills were mounting up, of course.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: And then she says, But I want to be really honest on on the um on this fundraiser.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: I would love to take a family vacation.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we want to take the kids to Disney World.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: I said, well then be honest on that.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: So when we when I started the GoFundMe, we were very clear about, you know, using monies, of course, to help them out financially with bills and everything, but also to provide them with uh an opportunity to all do Disney World together.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: And they did they did, they do.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was one of the best vacations you know they ever had.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's wonderful.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: So and she got to go on rides and I don't no, I didn't make the trip with them.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: It was her uh immediate family and her mom, and they all went.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think she did some rides, but it was just for Lindsay, it would have been about just being there, right, and letting the boys do what they wanted to do.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, so that's uh I I'm so glad that they got that.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I I think that's a illustration of you know, when time becomes that precious, you really understand what matters most, which was time with her family.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and you know, I I see that over and over again, and I I try to live my life now where I'm not saying like, oh, I'll spend time with my husband when I get a chance, or I'm gonna do this work thing and uh I'll have dinner with the family another time.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like, no, but yeah, I have to walk that out like now.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: It changes your perspective on everything.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, my I have yeah, son and daughter, my son was at home with us, and you know, daughter was still away in school, and and when I found that she was coming back to Austin, you know, it was just I was just thrilled to have her here and have all this here together.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then you start to prioritize, you know, the time you spend with them.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's just yeah, so important.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that there's that that story about like you know, you have this jar, right?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_03: And you put the rocks in first, the big rocks, and then you put the little pebbles in, and then like the sand and like the rocks are the thing that are the most important.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I I do think it's easy to manage time without realizing what choices you're making.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: Because you just are like responding to the thing in front of you, and yeah, the the family is like the rocks they gotta go in first, and then like yeah, some of this other stuff, the little pebbles.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_03: We'll get to it if we can.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and what do you love most about your work now at BCRC?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: Oh man.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so many things.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: I love the team that I work with, uh, because it's a very passionate team.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, everyone there has been there a number of years.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: Not everyone, but the majority of the people have.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: But you You can tell how much joy they get out of working with uh the clients, uh, especially the patient navigators that are assigned um to work with the various patients.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: Who are all essentially survivors themselves.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they know they are all survivors, and so they know exactly what they're talking about.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: And they they just have this passion for what it is they do.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: So what you know, I'm again, I'm on I'm on the board, but but I've enjoyed getting to know uh the team members, uh, my team members, and then actually getting the word out.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, that's the biggest thing, is there's still so many people who don't know about us.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: And my goal is to, I want, I would love for us to become the breast cancer resource center of Texas, you know, and and be able to spread out beyond Central Texas right now with such a you know small organization, you could only manage so much.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: But the the services that we offer are absolutely amazing.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: And anybody that I've sent over there, they all come back with uh wow, wow, wow.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: I I have now have a I now have a crew of people that I know and I can talk to and visit with.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: So um I'm just loving the work.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we have um an upcoming survivors, survivorship summit that's happening in October.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot, I'm I'm amazed at the number of people who come to that.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's still a group of you know individuals wanting to continue to connect uh with each other.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: And uh some of the programs and things we offer are pretty amazing.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: So that sponsorships, I'm you know, meeting with um various um doctors, organizations, whatever, to tell them about us and and getting the support um that we need.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: But it it's it's about uh advocacy and and uh community and bringing people together.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I've been really impressed with the passion and the mission alignment and the you know, how can we make this happen?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_03: Not like can we make this happen, but like this how can we happen?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, we're gonna we are gonna make this happen.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_03: The question is how how do we figure it out together?
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_03: And if it's gonna help the patients, then you know, we're gonna do it.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um I as we have gotten to know each other, um, I know you love tennis.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_03: I do.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I've just I've again been very impressed with how your family has so intentionally shown up in this, these challenges that you faced.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: And we talked about the book, The Inner Game of Tennis, right?
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_03: And if you were gonna write a book called The Inner Game of Cancer, what is that inner game?
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_03: What are the the things that you learned that you need to have in terms of mindset, beliefs, um, the challenges of managing what's going on inside so that you can get to the appointments and have the chemo and deal with the you know the side effects and pick a good team, etc.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: I I think a lot of it is allowing people to help you.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um because while most won't ask for help, uh there are a lot of people out there wanting to help you.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: They're so genuine when they say, hey, call me, I want to help you, they really mean it.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, taking a step back and allowing yours allowing others into your life uh that will help you.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then conversations, having the conversations.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I I I now wish I had listened a little bit more to Lindsay.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: I wish um I'd really heard what she was saying when when she says, I'm I'm tired of the treatment.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't wanna, I don't want to do this particular treatment anymore.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to, you know, I wished I had listened a little bit more on that.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: I just wish we'd talked a little bit more about the diagnosis, about um what she was going through.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know, she was tired of taking 25 pills a day.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but what did that really mean when she said that?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: Was she done?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: Was she you know, what did it mean?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I wish I wish I had more conversations.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_03: Do you remember did she meet with a palliative care doctor at some point in there?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: I think she did.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: I I was not available, uh, not there for that.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_03: So I people think palliative care is for like when you're done, when you're at the end, when there's nothing else.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: But more and more we've seen that getting palliative care involved early is super helpful for clarity on goals of care, on clarity for managing symptoms and side effects in a in a kind of holistic way that's taking the patient's preferences into account, what is most important, you know.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: And and then if that transition does happen where I'm not sure I'm willing to deal with the side effects of this anymore, it's not worth it to me anymore.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's those that groundwork's already been laid, right?
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_03: So I think many people when we offer palliative care consultation are like, no, I want to, I want to fight.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, well, yes, that doesn't sure, but palliative care doesn't mean you aren't fighting, but it can it can help.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she continued to fight.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: She had some goals.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: One is she wanted to see Roland graduate from kindergarten, and the other one is she wanted to be an art bra model.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the the that year she was going to be an art bra model and her bra and everything that had already been done.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: And in fact, when she when she got really sick and uh was in the hospital um just be just before she died, um, she was on a call with uh, you know, a conference call with all the other models talking about art bra and some of the things they were doing to get ready for that.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: And uh just you know barely hanging on the phone call.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: But she had a goal, she had a mission.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: She was she was gonna be uh she was gonna be a model.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_03: She was not letting the cancer define her.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: No, yeah, that's that's really powerful.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_03: So and Artbra is an amazing event, the fundraising, major fundraiser for breast cancer resource center, where you know, for people who may not be from Austin or know um know about it, the women who have experienced breast cancer, they can apply to be a model.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_03: And then they have a broad, an outfit designed for them by a local designer and that jewelry, it's beautiful.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: It matches the theme of the evening.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: And uh Radiance Reclaimed was the name of this past year's uh art bra.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: And all of the designers are local artists around town who submit their application to design a bra for these uh uh for the models.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: And and you said, yeah, for women, we did have one man uh uh who was also because men get breast cancer as well, and uh he's a two-time survivor.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so we had um this past year uh one male model, and last year we had two uh that were on stage, and so yeah, it was it's an absolutely amazing event, and the women feel so empowered when they're on that stage and walking in the runway and getting the tears from the crowd, glowing and so yeah, lots of positive energy.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: Past year was just exceptional, I think.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, yeah, wonderful.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_03: Well, um, in the spirit of just cut out, this this very extensive experience you had, what are some things that you cut out because you just realized through seeing what matters most in these cancer journeys, like just wasn't important anymore.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_03: Work.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I I don't mean that seriously.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: I I I retired once before and took on another job.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: And and while I loved it, um, it was one thing I cut out.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um I just I wanted to change my focus um to to helping others.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: Not that I I I continue to help others as I worked.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: I I have worked in nonprofits, but I wanted to give more of my time um to this organization and others.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I I resigned.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: If I I quit my job.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I have no regrets at all.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: None at all.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_03: Because you're probably not any less busy than you were before, right?
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_03: I'm trying to figure out how I did it all before.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: Right, you know.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_03: But just spending your time more intentionally.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_03: That's one of the things I'm I'm I'm loving it.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's great.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we're lucky to have you.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: Breast Cancer Resource Center is lucky to have you, and we are so lucky to have your daughter and our general surgery residency.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: So she's just an amazing human.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: You done good, mama.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: I try.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so what's the question you'd like to ask me?
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: If you weren't doing this, what would you be doing?
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's a great question.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_03: What would I be doing?
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't know.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_03: And that's something that I think a lot about.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_03: I am enjoying this space of creating content.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_03: I as a writer um and with this podcast, and I think I would see more fully where this podcast could lead.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: I I feel there's a need for messaging in the world today about what matters most.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_03: I think we've gotten distracted by a lot of things that have gotten us very angry and rightfully so, but I think channeling that, you know, this is wrong and this shouldn't be into something that's creative and productive is the answer because I I feel that we're tearing down the the society, the community, the families that are part of our ability are that are necessary to flourish as humans.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I want to do something to make that better.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that's I would try to find a space in having an impact there.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's great.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: All right, well, it has been an absolute pleasure to talk to you today.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Alicia.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm so excited I still get to see you through different contexts and and our uh shared work in um breast cancer here in Austin.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_03: I've enjoyed it.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: All right, well, this is um another episode of Just Cut It Out.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for joining us today, and I look forward to seeing you uh on a future episode.