Latest / Story Magic / 138 - How beliefs drive goals

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138 - How beliefs drive goals · Story Magic

2:27
Emily: Hey, writers.
2:28
Rachel: Welcome back to Story Magic, the podcast that will help you write a book you're damn proud of.
2:32
Emily: I'm Emily.
2:33
Rachel: And I'm Rachel.
2:35
Emily: And today we are going to talk about how a person or characters beliefs drive their desires.
2:46
Emily: I wanted to talk about this because I feel oftentimes people will ask, how do I create a realistic character?
2:56
Emily: Like, how do I create somebody who feels real, who feels consistent, who feels human?
3:02
Emily: And I think one of the best ways to do that is to make sure that what they want is being driven by what they believe.
3:12
Emily: Because when those two things don't.
3:14
Emily: Like, when those two things aren't lined up on the page, the character doesn't feel real.
3:19
Emily: Like, they're gonna feel flat or inconsistent or confusing because they're not gonna be doing things for reasons that have any basis in anything.
3:29
Rachel: Right.
3:30
Emily: They're just gonna be kind of like, doing stuff.
3:33
Rachel: Yeah. I mean, I read books that don't have this, and I'm just like, why?
3:37
Rachel: Why are you doing this?
3:37
Rachel: Like, the whole time, why, why, why?
3:41
Rachel: And then like, that's what me.
3:43
Rachel: That's what pisses me off, is the more that I ask why, the more I'm like, I don't.
3:46
Rachel: Why does this matter to you?
3:46
Rachel: Why don't we care?
3:50
Rachel: Why should I care that you're here doing this thing?
3:54
Rachel: So this, to me, this is the solve for that is like, if I don't understand why you're doing something, which the answer is because of what you believe.
4:04
Rachel: But then I also need to understand, like, why do you believe that which has its own, like, okay, character development, backstory, et cetera.
4:12
Rachel: All that needs to be clear on the page so that we buy into the goals, we buy into the plot that's happening.
4:21
Rachel: Because truly I will if I don't get it, I'm just like, okay, bye.
4:25
Rachel: And I'll like, put it down.
4:27
Rachel: I'm not engaged.
4:28
Rachel: I don't care.
4:30
Emily: Yeah, you have to understand why a character is doing something in order to invest in their experience.
4:35
Emily: And if you don't, whether you agree with their, you know, why they're doing something or not, like, you have to understand what it is, because otherwise you're just gonna be like, why are we here?
4:44
Rachel: So I actually just on that note, really quickly, I know I'm interrupting the whole way that you wanted to start this episode.
4:49
Emily: No, that's okay.
4:51
Rachel: I do feel like.
4:52
Rachel: I think authors usually feel like your readers have to agree with your character.
4:58
Rachel: Right.
4:58
Rachel: Like, what you just said of, like, well, if they don't, they Don't.
5:02
Rachel: If they don't understand why they're doing it, they don't.
5:06
Rachel: Like, I feel that so many people are like, well, they're going to hate her because she's doing something wrong.
5:13
Rachel: And I'm like, they don't care that she's doing something wrong.
5:17
Rachel: They need to understand why she's doing it.
5:20
Rachel: And if they understand why she's doing it, they're in.
5:23
Rachel: They don't agree.
5:24
Rachel: That's not an agreement.
5:25
Rachel: Right.
5:25
Rachel: Like, we don't.
5:26
Rachel: I will see authors who try to make very moderate characters.
5:30
Rachel: Do you know what I'm saying?
5:32
Rachel: We've talked about this.
5:33
Emily: Just read a Romanasy like this.
5:36
Rachel: Very even keeled, very moderate, very logical.
5:41
Rachel: And like, that's the other thing too.
5:42
Rachel: Earlier you said character consistency.
5:45
Rachel: And like a character, as long as they are consistently wrong, fine, they.
5:51
Rachel: But that.
5:52
Rachel: That doesn't mean they have to be logical.
5:54
Rachel: Right.
5:54
Rachel: Like, consistency and logic are not the same thing.
5:58
Rachel: And anyway, like, when the people are like, well, she needs to be moderate, otherwise they.
6:05
Rachel: We won't get behind her.
6:07
Rachel: Is like, no, that's not true.
6:08
Rachel: If I just understand why she's this way, I'm behind her.
6:12
Rachel: Go girl.
6:13
Rachel: Burn down the world.
6:13
Rachel: I don't care.
6:14
Rachel: I don't agree with you, but I understand why you are that way.
6:18
Rachel: That's, I think, the basis for all human empathy.
6:22
Rachel: I feel like authors get so worried that our characters will only empathize with or our readers will only empathize with our characters if they agree with them.
6:29
Rachel: I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, You've got it backwards.
6:32
Rachel: If you can make us understand them, even in all of their terrible wrongs, I will empathize with them and I'll be along for the journey.
6:40
Rachel: And that's actually more compelling.
6:42
Rachel: As if you can empathize with someone who's clearly wrong, but you wanna see them succeed.
6:47
Rachel: Yeah, that's the hook.
6:49
Emily: I was just talking with some author friends of whining, as you do with some author friends the other day about how I feel like so many books and we were specifically talking about like the Romanes we've been reading.
7:04
Emily: But you know, I think this applies in general too, is I feel like authors are afraid to give their characters dimension.
7:12
Emily: Like they want them to be so likable, especially in romantic situations.
7:17
Emily: It's like no one can make real mistakes.
7:20
Emily: Like they have to make like misunderstood mistakes or like they have to like, have the wrong.
7:26
Emily: Like, I feel like it's very common in Romanasy for the.
7:29
Emily: The woman to be, like, so hard on themselves, but, like, really, they've never done.
7:33
Emily: Done anything wrong.
7:34
Emily: Yeah. Or they say they've done things wrong, but we don't actually see them do anything.
7:38
Emily: They're like, oh, I'm an assassin.
7:39
Emily: I kill people.
7:40
Emily: And I'm like, okay, you kill bad guys.
7:42
Emily: Like, I don't know.
7:44
Emily: That's not bad.
7:44
Emily: You're not, like a morally gray person.
7:48
Emily: You kill.
7:48
Emily: You kill bad guys in a Roman world.
7:51
Emily: Like, cool.
7:53
Emily: But they're, like, so hard on themselves because their soul is so stained.
7:59
Emily: So, like.
8:00
Emily: But. But I do feel like.
8:02
Emily: I mean, part of this is because readers are not very tolerant of people making mistakes, especially, like, male characters.
8:09
Emily: Like, I feel like we actually got talking with these authors about one of my characters that you were like, he cannot do that in my romance.
8:17
Emily: You were like, people will hate him.
8:19
Emily: And you were not wrong.
8:20
Emily: But we were just bemoaning, like, more humanity, please.
8:23
Emily: Like, we need characters to be allowed to be flawed.
8:26
Emily: Um, and when you allow them to be flawed, it's very important that the.
8:31
Emily: The reasons they are flawed are clear on the page.
8:35
Emily: So today's episode is about the first piece of that, which is just tying their goals to their beliefs.
8:42
Emily: Um, and so basically what this comes down to is when a person, you or me, when we want something, right?
8:49
Emily: When we're doing something, when we have a goal, it's because we want to feel a certain way.
8:54
Emily: Like, feelings are the drivers behind all goals, right?
8:58
Emily: All external things that we might want or seek or do, it's because we're after a feeling.
9:03
Emily: And when we choose to do something, to seek that feeling, it's because we hold a belief about what we think we need to do to achieve that feeling, right?
9:16
Emily: And so that's basically the.
9:20
Emily: The heart of this.
9:20
Emily: So I came up with two random examples.
9:24
Emily: If I. Let's say if I want to feel loved and I choose to work myself into the ground to provide for my family, I hold the belief that you must provide to be worthy of love, right?
9:33
Emily: Like, that's.
9:35
Emily: Those things are tied.
9:36
Emily: If I want to feel safe and I choose to obsess over every word in my story in order to make it perfect, right?
9:41
Emily: Then I hold the belief that if you are perfect, you will be safe, right?
9:45
Emily: So this is actually very helpful mindset work to do in therapy or otherwise, Right?
9:49
Emily: To start to look at, like, what are the beliefs that are driving your actions?
9:56
Emily: But there is always a belief that's driving your action, and that belief is always about how you're Going to achieve some kind of feeling.
10:03
Emily: Right.
10:05
Emily: And so the same is true of your characters.
10:07
Emily: Yeah.
10:08
Emily: We have to make those connections make sense.
10:10
Rachel: Yeah. Because, I mean, I was reading a Romantasy, I think, last year, and this is.
10:18
Rachel: We're going to talk about this.
10:19
Rachel: But on the internal and the external side, these things need to be connected.
10:23
Rachel: And then also, like, the flawed beliefs that are driving you need to be connected.
10:27
Rachel: But very often, I will see a character pursue an external goal that has nothing to do with their flaws.
10:35
Rachel: So in.
10:36
Rachel: In. I was reading a Romantasy last year, where it was an academia trope.
10:42
Rachel: So the main character was going to school, and.
10:46
Rachel: And. And she was like the child of a prophecy and the most powerful being to ever walk the planet.
10:53
Rachel: And I'm like, why are you at school?
10:55
Rachel: Why are we going to class?
10:55
Rachel: Like, I literally was like, this makes no sense.
10:59
Rachel: Why are you going to class?
11:00
Rachel: The world is blowing apart.
11:02
Rachel: You know?
11:02
Rachel: Like, I was like, the stakes of this entire situation are way too large.
11:06
Rachel: I don't.
11:07
Rachel: I. Not that this character had flaws.
11:08
Rachel: I can't even remember what they're like.
11:10
Rachel: I doubt they were flawed characters because it was, like, one of these very moderate Romantasy female characters that need to be beloved by everyone.
11:17
Emily: Where her biggest flaw is she doesn't trust her power.
11:20
Rachel: Exactly. That's exactly it.
11:22
Rachel: Her biggest flaw is that she actually had no powers.
11:25
Rachel: And then all of a sudden, she is the most powerful person.
11:30
Rachel: So the whole first book, I. I mean, there were four of them.
11:34
Rachel: So I think for all of these books, I literally was like, why are you going to class?
11:41
Rachel: And.
11:41
Emily: And especially in book four.
11:43
Rachel: I know.
11:44
Rachel: No, in book four, we stopped going to class.
11:46
Rachel: And then I was like, why are we still at school?
11:48
Rachel: I was like, why are we on campus?
11:50
Rachel: This makes no sense.
11:53
Emily: I don't know.
11:54
Emily: For everybody to know.
11:55
Emily: I have no idea what book she's talking about.
11:57
Rachel: And I'm not gonna tell you.
11:58
Emily: I'm just guessing.
11:59
Rachel: I. I'm not gonna tell you because I still gobbled them all up.
12:01
Rachel: Right.
12:02
Rachel: Like, I was like, oh, my God.
12:03
Rachel: I love.
12:03
Rachel: I love this book.
12:04
Rachel: Like, it's so.
12:04
Rachel: It's so drama.
12:06
Rachel: But I kept.
12:06
Rachel: I literally kept being like, I don't understand why you're pursuing anything externally.
12:12
Rachel: There's no tie.
12:13
Rachel: There's no connection.
12:14
Rachel: There's no motivation.
12:15
Rachel: You're just.
12:16
Rachel: She was just kind of floating through life.
12:19
Rachel: And that was really frustrating because.
12:22
Rachel: Broke a lot of pieces for me.
12:24
Rachel: Right.
12:25
Rachel: Like, it.
12:26
Rachel: It didn't have a connection to her flaws.
12:28
Rachel: So I didn't understand why she was motivated to do anything.
12:31
Rachel: But on, on the other side, it felt like she had no agency because she was just kind of like floating through school, going to class.
12:39
Rachel: What?
12:39
Rachel: Why?
12:40
Rachel: Like, she was just there because you're supposed to go to school and, and that's not good enough, right?
12:44
Rachel: Like, yeah.
12:46
Rachel: And then, and then at the same time, it really killed the stakes because there was.
12:50
Rachel: I was like, what if you just don't go to class?
12:53
Rachel: Nothing bad would happen.
12:54
Rachel: Just don't go.
12:55
Rachel: Leave.
12:55
Emily: Like, yeah.
12:57
Rachel: So it's, it just broke a lot of thing apart because the, the beliefs were not connected.
13:02
Rachel: But to the lesson of this story that I'm telling you, listeners, Emily, know, like, Emily, I'm telling you this lesson, internalize it.
13:11
Rachel: But is like, if she was going to class because now this character had no powers in book one, right?
13:18
Rachel: So if she was like, because I'm the only one that has no powers, the only way that I will find value in myself is if I exceed academically.
13:27
Rachel: You know, I would be like, oh, I understand that.
13:29
Rachel: I do understand the desire to exceed academically to prove your value.
13:35
Rachel: That's my entire childhood, right?
13:37
Rachel: Like, of course I understand that.
13:40
Rachel: That's why I was a straight A student, is because if I exceeded academically, that meant I was valuable as a child, as a person, as a human being.
13:48
Rachel: So I think, like, I would have felt a tough ton of connection to this character if she had some sort of belief that was motivating her day to day, right?
14:00
Rachel: Like the lens which she viewed the world.
14:02
Rachel: And I would have tied it to the part of her that was the most hurt, which was the fact that she had no powers.
14:10
Rachel: She felt she was at a pair, like a paranormal school.
14:14
Rachel: So like, everyone around her was like a vampire or a werewolf and she's just a little human.
14:18
Rachel: And then the other part of me was like, why are you a human?
14:20
Rachel: Going to paranormal school doesn't make any sense.
14:23
Rachel: Sense but for the plot, because she's not a human.
14:26
Rachel: She's the most powerful being to ever walk the planet.
14:28
Rachel: But anyway, like, I would have been much more compelled by that story if the reason that she was going to school mattered or like the reason, like her flawed belief or the desire that she carried internally, like, to feel valuable or to have belonging.
14:44
Rachel: Because that was another thing is that she was of course, all alone.
14:48
Rachel: Her parents were dead, she was isolated in the world.
14:51
Rachel: She had no one.
14:53
Rachel: So if she was like, no, I don't care about class.
14:55
Rachel: I just want to make friends because I'VE been alone my entire life.
14:58
Rachel: I would have been like, cool, don't go to class, go to that party.
15:02
Rachel: You know, like, I would have been behind that.
15:05
Rachel: And I think that's where I see some of these stories fall flat, but in a separate academia.
15:10
Rachel: And this one I will talk about.
15:13
Rachel: Last year I also read Nacticadia by Carrie Lake and I really enjoyed it.
15:19
Rachel: And I'm gonna read this now that it's getting to be fall again.
15:22
Rachel: I'm like excited to read more of these gothic stuff stories.
15:25
Rachel: But in Nactacadia, it's another academic academia trope.
15:30
Rachel: And she goes to like this fancy prep school, but she goes because her mother dies from like this terrible illness where she basically like is overcome by parasites and vomits them all up.
15:43
Rachel: And that's like the first chapter, right?
15:43
Rachel: So, so you're like, oh my God, what is wrong with her mother?
15:49
Rachel: So she goes to school because there's one researcher in the whole world who studies these parasites and it happens to be at this isolated school.
15:58
Rachel: So the whole reason that we're going to school is to uncover the mystery of her mother's death.
16:03
Rachel: So then her going to class is because she has to stay at school.
16:07
Rachel: She can't get kicked out until she figures out where this parasite came from.
16:10
Rachel: And then she has to go to lab with the hot professor because the hot professor is the guy who studies the parasites, right?
16:17
Rachel: So then she's got to get close to the hot professor because he studies the parasites and it's a very locked down lab.
16:24
Rachel: And unless she gets on his good side, she's never going to find out what, what parasite killed her mother.
16:30
Rachel: Right?
16:30
Rachel: So even though we're like pursuing the hot professor, I still was like, I understand why you're doing that.
16:36
Rachel: You're not just doing that because you want some D, you're doing that because you think you're going to solve your mother's, your mother's murder, Right?
16:41
Rachel: Or as we come to find out, her, her illness.
16:46
Rachel: Right?
16:47
Rachel: So in that way, you know, she's driven by those goals.
16:51
Rachel: And she also thinks that solving the mystery will give her like, answers and peace and be able to like, stop
16:59
Emily: her terrible feel a certain way.
17:01
Emily: Right.
17:01
Emily: And you can get behind that as a human.
17:03
Rachel: We all want to be at peace.
17:05
Emily: Yeah.
17:06
Rachel: And she's having like terrible nightmares because she watched her mother vomit parasites and die right in front of her, right?
17:12
Rachel: So she has like this terribly traumatic backstory that she thinks she can heal if she just gets answers to what's happening.
17:20
Rachel: So she wants to feel a certain way.
17:21
Rachel: And if you don't have that connection, then I'm like, why are you going to school?
17:25
Rachel: Your mother's dead, go do something else.
17:27
Rachel: Why are you here?
17:28
Emily: Yeah, you know, exactly, like, exactly, yeah.
17:32
Emily: So for folks who want to work on this and make sure that this connection is working for your characters, and this applies, in my opinion, to every character.
17:44
Emily: I mean, like, what do your characters want?
17:44
Emily: Your secondary characters have goals too.
17:48
Emily: They, those goals are driven by a feeling, right?
17:50
Emily: And the reason that they think those goals will give them that feeling are driven by their beliefs.
17:57
Emily: And so the more that you can understand this, like at minimum, this little equation for your, for your secondary characters, the more consistent they're going to feel on the page because you're going to understand why they're doing what they're doing and why they think they have to do it.
18:13
Emily: So the first thing to know is the internal goal.
18:16
Emily: We have lots of podcasts on this.
18:18
Emily: But this is the, this is that feeling that they desire, right?
18:20
Emily: It's the thing that is driving them internally, maybe subconsciously, right?
18:26
Emily: It's, it's a desire for a human feeling.
18:30
Emily: They want to feel loved or respected or stable or safe, or they want to feel belonging.
18:35
Emily: They want to feel, you know, a sense of peace, like you said earlier, right?
18:41
Emily: Like, what is that buried insecurity or fear or subconscious desire that's driving everything that they do?
18:49
Emily: And then how are they going to get it right?
18:49
Emily: Like that's the external goal.
18:54
Emily: What are they actually going to do?
18:55
Emily: Specific, tangible, externally actionable things.
18:58
Emily: What are they going to do to try to achieve, to get that feeling right?
19:03
Emily: And this is where they're going to go wrong because they're going to do the wrong thing, right?
19:06
Emily: And make mistakes.
19:09
Emily: But it's important to know from a plot perspective what their external goal is.
19:13
Emily: So you know what to have them doing in every scene.
19:15
Emily: But it's also important to know kind of what, right, how they think they need to get that feeling and how that is leading them down the wrong paths.
19:26
Emily: And so that external goal is that all consuming plot goal.
19:29
Emily: Again, it is specific and tangible.
19:31
Emily: It's the thing they know consciously that they want to achieve.
19:35
Emily: Like the parasite finding out what killed what killed mom, right?
19:40
Emily: Like, yep, that is an external goal.
19:42
Emily: And then the belief, the internal obstacle belief, this is the specific or flawed belief that your character is using to drive their external goals.
19:54
Emily: So it's the belief for how they think they're going to get their internal goal, how they're going to get that feeling from my examples earlier, right.
20:03
Emily: I listed a couple of them.
20:04
Emily: You must provide in order to be worthy of love, or if you're perfect, you will be safe.
20:09
Emily: Right.
20:09
Emily: It's some belief that they hold about how the world works and how people must act.
20:15
Emily: Not just them, but just people in general.
20:18
Emily: How do people have to act in order to be worthy of love or in order to be safe or in order to get respect or find peace?
20:25
Emily: And that we talk about this in other episodes, but at first you want that belief to be flawed, right?
20:30
Emily: It needs to be leading them to make mistakes.
20:33
Emily: Otherwise you don't have a story and you don't have an arc of change.
20:37
Emily: And then later they will learn more healed beliefs.
20:40
Emily: Right.
20:41
Emily: About how to correctly go about getting that feeling right, that internal goal.
20:45
Emily: And that's that story point belief that they'll learn at the end of the story which will change their actions.
20:50
Emily: Right.
20:51
Emily: Because the belief is driving the actions.
20:53
Emily: It's driving how your character is going after getting their internal goal.
20:58
Emily: And so if the belief is flawed, the actions will be flawed.
21:01
Emily: If the belief is healed and good, then the actions will be healed and good.
21:07
Emily: Yeah, that's the basics.
21:10
Rachel: Yeah. So what if we give you an example from boyfriend material?
21:15
Emily: Yeah, let's start with that one.
21:16
Rachel: Okay, so boyfriend material is a queer romance by Alexis hall and the main character's name is Luke.
21:26
Rachel: And basically Luke is the son of a very famous rock star and they're estranged, they don't really talk.
21:34
Rachel: But because he's the son of a famous rock star, his whole life has been kind of surrounded by paparazzi and like examined under the lens.
21:42
Rachel: And whenever he makes a mistake, it's like blasted along the tabloids.
21:46
Rachel: So he's extremely insecure.
21:49
Rachel: And Luke has at the beginning of the book undergone kind of like a social faux pas perhaps.
21:58
Rachel: And his public image is very low and his name carries a lot of tangential famousness.
22:06
Rachel: Like he's not famous, but because of his father also being kind of a terrible person and terrible rock star.
22:15
Rachel: He is famous.
22:17
Rachel: But Luke views the world through this lens of protecting himself because he's been really hurt and damaged by people trying to exploit him before.
22:31
Rachel: He has this flawed view of the world that you can protect yourself from pain and rejection by hiding your vulnerabilities.
22:39
Rachel: So he's basically all about, like, I'm going to put on this kind of non affected outside image, but on the inside he's very insecure and he wants to protect himself from pain because of the events of the plot and the catalyst.
22:59
Rachel: He works at this job where he needs to attract donors to an annual fundraiser.
23:06
Rachel: And this has kind of been the only job that he can really hold down.
23:09
Rachel: He's a mess.
23:10
Rachel: Luke is a. Is a mess of a person.
23:12
Rachel: This is the only job he can really hold down.
23:15
Rachel: So his public image is very low.
23:19
Rachel: The donors are not wanting to come to the fundraiser because of his image.
23:25
Rachel: So he has this whole external goal to find and keep a suitable fake boyfriend.
23:30
Rachel: Not real.
23:31
Rachel: To fix his image long enough to attract donors to come to this fundraiser.
23:37
Rachel: So that whole external eternal goal of, like, finding a fake boyfriend, he doesn't want a real boyfriend, right?
23:42
Rachel: Because he's afraid of rejection and he's afraid of pain.
23:49
Rachel: So it's not like he's thinking, I'm gonna go get a boyfriend who will look good.
23:54
Rachel: I'm gonna get a fake boyfriend who will look good to fix my image.
24:00
Rachel: And then the, the like, quiet part of that is because he thinks no one, number one, he will always be hurt.
24:06
Rachel: It's not safe to love and no one will love him, right?
24:09
Rachel: So it can't be a real boyfriend.
24:11
Rachel: It's gotta be a fake boyfriend.
24:13
Rachel: So that kicks off this whole, like, quest to find a fake boyfriend.
24:17
Rachel: He meets.
24:18
Rachel: He meets someone who's Oliver, who's like the sweetest person on the planet.
24:22
Rachel: And Oliver is also in the search for a fake boyfriend, kind of.
24:28
Rachel: And so they agree to, like, fake date in order to raise Luke's social standing to get this.
24:36
Rachel: This.
24:37
Rachel: These donors.
24:39
Rachel: Luke's internal goal is that he wants to feel safe without having to change.
24:44
Rachel: He's not ready.
24:45
Rachel: He, like, doesn't want to work on himself.
24:48
Rachel: He is too much of a mess.
24:50
Rachel: It's like very clear from his internal processing that he doesn't.
24:53
Rachel: He's helpless.
24:54
Rachel: And he thinks he's helpless.
24:56
Rachel: And like, there's nothing that can be done to fix Luke o'.
24:59
Rachel: Donnell.
24:59
Rachel: He just is a mess.
25:01
Rachel: So he really.
25:02
Rachel: But he.
25:03
Rachel: He wants to feel safe.
25:05
Rachel: And he also knows that, like, he's kind of the problem, but he's unwilling to change that, right?
25:09
Rachel: So he's got like a level of self awareness into his problems, but a complete lack of desire of, like, actually working on himself.
25:21
Rachel: He doesn't want to because it would be too hard, right, to face his vulnerabilities.
25:26
Rachel: So anyway, we see this external goal of that fake boyfriend fixing his image, driven by this need to protect himself, this flawed view of the world that he can protect himself if he just hides his vulnerabilities.
25:40
Rachel: So the.
25:40
Rachel: The whole jaunt between Oliver and Luke is this dance of them getting closer and Luke feeling vulnerable and.
25:48
Rachel: And making a bad decision and pulling away.
25:51
Rachel: And, like, that is really the crux of their.
25:54
Rachel: Their fake dating relationship.
25:56
Rachel: The more that they date, the more real that it becomes.
25:59
Rachel: And they eventually decide to date for real.
26:02
Rachel: But Luke cannot get past these vulnerabilities, like allowing Oliver to see his vulnerabilities.
26:09
Rachel: So the drama from their relationship keeps stemming from this flawed worldview.
26:15
Rachel: Right?
26:15
Rachel: And then things fall apart.
26:19
Rachel: We get patched back together.
26:20
Rachel: But ultimately, like, Luke needs to learn that the people who matter will love you no matter your flaws.
26:28
Rachel: So by the end of the book, he's able to accept this kind of messy version of himself.
26:34
Rachel: He does eventually decide, like, I'm gonna change.
26:36
Rachel: I'm.
26:37
Rachel: I'm gonna be better.
26:37
Rachel: And there are multiple scenes throughout the book where he's showing progress on that front as far as, like, okay, I will clean my apartment.
26:44
Rachel: I will get my life together.
26:46
Rachel: I will try to be better for Oliver.
26:49
Rachel: Right?
26:50
Rachel: And then eventually he learns that the people who love you won't.
26:54
Rachel: The people who matter will love you no matter your flaws.
26:59
Rachel: Yeah. So I think, like, the whole.
27:01
Rachel: What I like about this breakdown is that the whole drive to find the fake boyfriend is fully rooted in the fact that Luke refuses to be vulnerable because he's afraid of pain and rejection.
27:14
Rachel: So he doesn't think a fake boyfriend would hurt his feelings.
27:18
Rachel: That's why it's gotta be fake.
27:19
Rachel: That's why it matters, because he has this flawed view of how to protect himself.
27:24
Rachel: And the whole reason that he wants to protect himself from pain and rejection is because he really wants to feel safe.
27:31
Emily: Yeah, but there's such a. You can.
27:33
Emily: You can see here, like, if a person wants to feel safe without having to change, right?
27:37
Emily: But they believe you can protect yourself by hiding vulnerabilities.
27:43
Emily: You're gonna act in a certain way, right?
27:43
Emily: You're gonna seek ways to hide your vulnerabilities in order to feel safe.
27:49
Emily: If you believe to feel safe without.
27:51
Emily: Or that you.
27:52
Emily: If you want to feel safe without having to change, but you believe, yeah, the people who matter will love you no matter your flaws, you're gonna act in a totally different way, right?
28:01
Emily: You're gonna be vulnerable.
28:02
Emily: You're gonna show those flaws.
28:03
Emily: You're gonna share those flaws.
28:05
Emily: You're going to own those flaws and maybe change them.
28:07
Emily: But, like, you're not going to fear that people are going to not love you because of your flaws, right?
28:12
Emily: And so you can See how like this is what we're trying to point out to you today is that tie between when you want something and you have a belief about how to get it.
28:22
Emily: That belief is going to drive your actions.
28:24
Emily: And if you have right.
28:26
Emily: Change happens when our beliefs change.
28:28
Emily: And those beliefs then change our actions.
28:30
Emily: And so they can often change our goals, our external goals, because we have a different idea about how to go about getting the thing that we most deeply want.
28:40
Rachel: Right.
28:40
Emily: That internal goal, that feeling.
28:42
Rachel: Yeah. So I mean, to me, this is where like just I've been thinking a lot about Plotter versus Pantser because of the workshop we have coming up.
28:53
Rachel: But knowing this is the lens, right?
28:53
Rachel: Like if I were pantsing this story, but I knew that Luke's lens was number one, he really just wants to feel safe.
29:06
Rachel: And then number two, he thinks he can protect himself by hiding his vulnerabilities.
29:12
Rachel: That's the lens through which every scene I'm writing and I'm thinking, well, if this character believes that they can protect themselves from pain or injection by hiding their vulnerabilities, what would they do?
29:24
Rachel: What would they think?
29:25
Rachel: What would they say?
29:25
Rachel: And they really want that safety.
29:28
Rachel: So how are they acting?
29:30
Rachel: How does this tie into their pursuit of the fake boyfriend?
29:34
Rachel: What are they driven by?
29:34
Rachel: Why does it matter to them?
29:37
Rachel: And then the things that you put on the page are the explanation for that, are the tie back to that.
29:42
Rachel: Like the lens that they have put on those glasses and be like, if I believed this, what actions would I take?
29:50
Rachel: If it was between having a vulnerable moment with my fake boyfriend or running away to my dirty, messy apartment, what would Luke do?
30:01
Rachel: And then he's gonna run away, right?
30:04
Rachel: Or he's gonna like lock himself in the bathroom.
30:08
Rachel: Like there's a scene where they have had a vulnerable moment and Luke has a freak out and locks himself in the bathroom.
30:15
Rachel: Right. And Oliver's sitting outside being like, aren't we adults?
30:18
Rachel: And Luke's like, I don't care.
30:21
Emily: Leave the bathroom.
30:22
Emily: I'm a child.
30:25
Rachel: So, like, I just really love this book because I also find Luke to be.
30:32
Rachel: It's such a sweet spot of how aware he is of his own problems and also completely missing them.
30:38
Rachel: Right?
30:39
Emily: Yeah.
30:39
Rachel: Like, yeah, he's so aware that he's a mess, but he's also super aware that he is, he is deeply afraid of being hurt.
30:48
Emily: Yeah.
30:49
Rachel: And we know that, but he's like, it's this very funny self deprecating image that he has of himself too.
30:57
Rachel: Anyway, but like Plotter versus Pantser, you can plot that out, or you can, like, embody that as the character when you're writing and just make it up as you go.
31:08
Emily: Yeah, that's always a great tip.
31:10
Emily: Um, and I think that's where things fall down, fall apart.
31:13
Emily: Like, sometimes I'll have people who are like, oh, my book is all about their trust issues.
31:18
Emily: Right.
31:18
Emily: But then the external plot is just about, like, adventure.
31:22
Emily: And I'm like, okay, but you're.
31:24
Emily: If you want to feel safe or whatever, and your beliefs are about trust,
31:27
Rachel: then, like, that needs to be driving
31:29
Emily: the actions in this adventure.
31:30
Emily: Like, those things need to be connected.
31:32
Emily: Because like you said in every scene, it's like, okay, this is the feeling I'm seeking.
31:37
Emily: This is how I think I need to get it.
31:39
Emily: This is like, what actions am I gonna take in this scene?
31:41
Emily: And if the actions that they're taking in that scene have nothing to do with how they're gonna get that feeling, then the scene is gonna feel random.
31:50
Emily: Your character's gonna feel inconsistent, they're gonna feel flat, they're not gonna feel human.
31:53
Emily: Right.
31:54
Emily: And so that's where to kind of tie back to the beginning of the episode.
31:57
Emily: Like, that's where that humanness comes through, is when.
32:01
Emily: Because we are so.
32:02
Emily: Like, humans are so driven by our beliefs.
32:05
Emily: Our beliefs drive every single action that we take.
32:07
Emily: And so if those.
32:08
Emily: If. If what we're feeling on the inside and what we're seeking, what feelings we're seeking are not driving what we're doing in the scenes in the.
32:16
Emily: Or if your character's feelings are not driving what they're doing, they're just not going to feel real, to be totally honest.
32:22
Rachel: Yeah, I think there's.
32:24
Rachel: There's also, like, a lot of.
32:26
Rachel: There's a lot of interpretation of, like, how you can allow them to live their life through their lens.
32:32
Rachel: And I think this goes back to what I was point hinting at earlier with the difference between consistency and logic.
32:38
Rachel: Like, a character.
32:40
Rachel: So, like, take Luke, for example, his internal obstacle.
32:45
Rachel: You can protect yourself from pain and rejection by hiding your vulnerabilities.
32:48
Rachel: That does not mean that he does not have any vulnerable moments throughout the book.
32:53
Rachel: Right?
32:53
Rachel: He does.
32:55
Rachel: He's also a character that, like, deeply wants to be loved.
32:57
Rachel: So. So when the opportunity comes around for him to open up a little bit, chances are he's going to open up a little bit.
33:04
Rachel: But because he's terrified of being hurt, he always has a freak out.
33:09
Rachel: Right.
33:09
Rachel: Like, we then have to reconcile the action.
33:13
Rachel: Like, our characters have to reconcile their own actions within their Worldview.
33:19
Rachel: And they're not always logical.
33:21
Rachel: Right.
33:22
Rachel: Or they're not always.
33:24
Rachel: Like, he's living his life with that internal obstacle all the time.
33:28
Rachel: But that doesn't mean that he will completely reject any opportunity to be vulnerable.
33:35
Rachel: It just is that he's terrified of doing it, and he's gonna freak out when he does.
33:39
Rachel: And therein lies the problem of this relationship.
33:43
Rachel: So if you have a character who's, like, on their adventure with their trust issues, that doesn't mean that they might never open up or they might never allow someone in.
33:54
Rachel: It just means that, okay, now they have to justify that choice within their worldview.
33:58
Rachel: What are they going to do next?
34:00
Rachel: Are they going to pull away?
34:02
Rachel: Are they going to leave the party?
34:04
Rachel: Are they going to lash out to make someone else feel the fears that they feel?
34:10
Rachel: You know, there's a lot of different ways that you can interpret that.
34:14
Rachel: And I.
34:16
Rachel: I see writers that try to be so black and white like this.
34:20
Rachel: That's like, well, if they believed that they can't trust anyone, they would never trust anyone.
34:26
Rachel: And I'm like, well, I think that's.
34:28
Rachel: That's true to a degree, but then you'd have kind of a boring plot, right?
34:33
Rachel: Like, it's kind of.
34:35
Rachel: Kind of a plot where, like, they don't do anything and they go nowhere and they talk to no one and they.
34:40
Rachel: And they live in their little hovel by themselves.
34:42
Rachel: Like, you've got to put them in situations.
34:44
Rachel: You got to manufacture situations where they're.
34:48
Rachel: They're acting because they must act, and then reconciling with the consequences of their actions and trying to fit it all within this worldview that they hold while pursuing what they deeply need.
35:04
Emily: Yeah.
35:04
Rachel: Probably in this trust issues case, might be safety.
35:07
Emily: I don't know.
35:08
Rachel: Love. Yeah. Could be anything.
35:10
Emily: But, I mean, I think oftentimes, like, you can justify it as, like, characters will jump through a lot of hoops to make justifications.
35:21
Emily: Mean they have to.
35:22
Emily: They have to jump through those hoops, right?
35:26
Emily: So, like, Katniss is an example, like, when she.
35:30
Emily: She goes into the Hunger Games with the belief that, like, survival of herself is like, the old.
35:35
Emily: It's so she can get back to her family is the only reasonable goal.
35:39
Emily: But she still partners with Rue and she still tries to save Rue's life, and she justifies it as, like, I need allies in order to survive until the end, and just refuses to think about the fact that that means Rue will have to die.
35:52
Emily: Right.
35:52
Emily: But, like.
35:54
Emily: And so she's jumping through, you know, she's willing to think about certain things, but, like, in order for her to survive, she needs an ally.
36:00
Emily: But in order to have an ally, she has to care about somebody, right?
36:03
Emily: And so she has to jump through those hoops mentally.
36:05
Emily: I was just working with a client.
36:07
Emily: We were talking about a secondary character who always chooses, like, believes that duty, you have to, like, follow your duty to be worthy of love.
36:15
Emily: So you're always gonna choose duty over love, right?
36:18
Emily: But we wanted this character to fall in love with the wrong person, right?
36:23
Emily: And it was like, well, how can we have him fall in love with someone if his belief is that you have to put duty over love?
36:30
Emily: And we're like, well, what if we make it so that he's jumping through hoops and thinks that by loving this person, he's somehow fulfilling a duty, right?
36:39
Emily: That person is useful for his duty.
36:41
Emily: Or, like, he's hoping that they can serve some purpose, right?
36:44
Emily: And so he's jumping through these hoops, and it's like, that's not the reason you're pursuing her, dude.
36:48
Rachel: Exactly.
36:49
Emily: Because you like her and you want love, right?
36:51
Emily: But he has to justify it through that worldview of like, nope, this is for duty.
36:56
Emily: And so if you find yourself in that situation where you're like, I want this character to choose the thing their belief tells them they can't, right?
37:03
Emily: Then you have to find a way for them to.
37:05
Emily: To at least tell themselves that they are following their internal obstacle belief.
37:11
Rachel: Exactly.
37:12
Emily: And there's a lot of ways you could do that if you have to think outside the box.
37:16
Rachel: I find myself to be probably too much like, the queen of justification, where I'm like, I'll make anything up on the page if it means that this makes sense to them, But I also feel like that's what we do, right?
37:28
Rachel: Like, and this is why I don't want you to try to make your character logical.
37:33
Rachel: Like, love is not logical, but they will be as best as they can trying to apply this worldview consistently.
37:42
Rachel: Even when they're acting outside of it.
37:45
Rachel: They don't think that, right?
37:45
Rachel: Like, they're.
37:47
Rachel: They're like, okay, this duty I've got, I've got to make this make sense, otherwise my whole world collapses, right?
37:51
Rachel: Like, and they're going to do anything to not let their world collapse because they're so entrenched in these views.
37:58
Rachel: But, like, the idea that this character, like, this is.
38:04
Rachel: I. I also see this a lot in romance because I.
38:06
Rachel: I do feel like you have a flaw in romance that says, no love, right?
38:11
Rachel: I can't be in love.
38:13
Rachel: But then the whole point of romance is falling in love, right?
38:16
Rachel: So if you're writing a romance with a character that has a flaw, that says love is dangerous, but you allow them to live, like, rigidly within that, the confines of that belief, they will never fall in love.
38:28
Rachel: And then you don't have a story, right?
38:29
Rachel: So you do have to find a way to, like, justify the way that they lost.
38:34
Rachel: It's just last.
38:36
Rachel: Exactly.
38:36
Rachel: Let me just have.
38:38
Rachel: Was I watching the other day?
38:40
Rachel: Oh, I. I really like the TV show New Girl.
38:43
Rachel: Do you like that show?
38:44
Emily: Yeah.
38:45
Rachel: Okay, so Jessica, the guys make the show.
38:49
Rachel: Jess is the main character, the new girl to the loft that they live in.
38:54
Rachel: Anyway, do you know the character arc or the.
38:57
Rachel: The not character arc, but, like, the story arc with the teacher, Mr.
39:02
Rachel: Gozen.
39:02
Rachel: You do you remember that?
39:04
Rachel: Okay, so Jess and Ryan. His name's Ryan, goes in you and, like, the whole joke is that his last name is a sexual innuendo.
39:14
Rachel: But Ryan and Jess are perfect for each other.
39:17
Rachel: And it kind of always makes me mad how they had to write him off the show because she never would have ended up with Nick, which is also fine if she.
39:26
Rachel: If Ryan stayed.
39:27
Rachel: Ryan is perfect for her, but the rules of the school where she works is that she can't fraternize with another teacher.
39:36
Rachel: She's the vice principal, so she can't be with the subordinate.
39:40
Rachel: And so there's all this sexual tension between the two of them of, like, they can't be together.
39:45
Rachel: And he's perfect for her.
39:48
Rachel: He's wonderful.
39:49
Rachel: Anyway, then they have a singles Thanksgiving.
39:55
Rachel: I just watched this episode.
39:58
Rachel: It's called Bangsgiving.
40:00
Rachel: Because all the other people in the loft are, like, trying to set their friends up with sexual partners to bang on Thanksgiving.
40:08
Rachel: They call it Bangsgiving.
40:11
Rachel: Someone invites Ryan for Jess, just trying to get them to, like, get together because everyone else can see that they're
40:17
Emily: perfect for each other.
40:18
Rachel: And Jess is like, no, I can't.
40:21
Rachel: I can't be with him.
40:22
Rachel: Because it would be like, I. I need to be the teacher.
40:25
Rachel: I love my job.
40:26
Rachel: Like, she's very work focused.
40:29
Rachel: And then there's a scene at the end of Thanksgiving where she pulls Ryan into her room and is like, okay, if we can just bang one out, we'll be fine and we'll be able to go back to school as normal.
40:40
Rachel: Like, let's just bang one out.
40:41
Rachel: It's lust, right?
40:42
Rachel: Like, that's the whole thing is that Jess is like, I think I'm attracted to him for Lust reasons.
40:47
Rachel: He then says, no.
40:49
Rachel: He's like, I thought we liked each other.
40:52
Rachel: I thought we had a real genuine connection.
40:54
Rachel: I don't want to sleep with you just once and then move on.
40:57
Rachel: And so then he leaves Thanksgiving, right?
40:57
Rachel: And it's like this drama.
41:00
Rachel: And she's, you know, he's terribly hurt by her suggestion, but they just bang one out and then move on with their lives.
41:08
Rachel: So anyway, my point of the story being like, that moment she hurts Ryan, then she's like, well, I.
41:17
Rachel: My flawed world feels getting in my way.
41:20
Rachel: We should just be together.
41:21
Rachel: And, like, she has to work through, like, the consequences of them being together, which comes with its own challenges in their relationship, right?
41:28
Rachel: But that was like, a very compelling plot point where she thought if she could just sleep with him, she could get him out of her mind, right?
41:37
Rachel: And him then being like, no, I actually want a genuine relationship with you shows that he's a viable partner, right?
41:43
Rachel: And so then she has hurt his feelings.
41:47
Rachel: She has to go make that up.
41:49
Rachel: She has to go apologize.
41:50
Rachel: And then through that, they can, like, repair their friendship and get back on track to their eventual romantic relationship.
41:58
Rachel: But, like, there's no drama, tension, conflict.
42:03
Rachel: If Jess is just like, well, I like my job more, right?
42:06
Rachel: Like, the whole point is that you're pushing and pulling against these beliefs and, like, trying to show them that they're wrong.
42:12
Rachel: Like, it's wrong or it was, like, unnecessary of Jess to be putting her work before genuine feelings, right?
42:20
Emily: Yeah.
42:21
Emily: That's why the gymnastics, the brain gymnastics of them trying to justify stuff, it can be so fun, right?
42:26
Emily: Because those justifications need to have negative consequences, right?
42:30
Emily: Like, just because she decided to choose to connect with him, right?
42:36
Emily: She's choosing, quote, unquote, love in that circumstance over work, right?
42:41
Emily: But she's doing it for all the.
42:42
Emily: In all the wrong ways, for all the wrong reasons, right?
42:45
Emily: Because she wants that, but she doesn't believe she can have that.
42:49
Emily: So she's like, well, let's just bang it out.
42:51
Emily: And that has the negative consequences of upsetting him.
42:53
Emily: So, like, this client and I who were talking about this duty versus love situation, the character, right?
42:59
Emily: He's. He's choosing this woman because he thinks he can use her.
43:06
Emily: He thinks that she will be useful for his duty.
43:08
Emily: Like, that's how he justifies allowing himself to love her.
43:13
Emily: And. But that has consequences, right?
43:13
Emily: She knows that he would always choose duty over her.
43:18
Emily: She knows that, right?
43:19
Emily: And there's circumstances where he is doing that.
43:22
Emily: He's putting duty over her.
43:23
Emily: And eventually those Negative consequences.
43:24
Emily: Consequences come back to bite him, right?
43:26
Emily: And he loses that love.
43:29
Emily: So you have to be thinking about, like, okay, how are they justifying the choices that they're making?
43:35
Emily: And how are those choices, because they are driven by flawed beliefs, how are they causing mistakes?
43:40
Emily: How are they having negative consequences?
43:43
Emily: And that's its own podcast.
43:45
Emily: So we're gonna do for you consequences.
43:48
Emily: Not yet.
43:49
Rachel: Okay.
43:50
Emily: But I think that's enough for today.
43:53
Rachel: The point is, guys, we were like, this will be 20 minutes.
43:56
Rachel: It'll be quick.
43:57
Emily: I know.
43:57
Rachel: It's been 40.
43:58
Emily: Okay, I'm gonna wrap it up.
44:01
Rachel: We have other examples.
44:02
Rachel: Do you want to go through any of our other examples?
44:04
Emily: I don't.
44:06
Emily: No, I don't.
44:07
Rachel: The last bullet.
44:08
Rachel: The last bullet of these notes that Emily put together is, like, too much question mark.
44:14
Emily: I just threw it all in here.
44:15
Emily: But okay, to summarize, right?
44:18
Emily: When somebody wants something, it's because they want to feel a certain way.
44:21
Emily: And so you need to examine, what are their beliefs about how they can achieve that feeling, and how are those beliefs driving their decisions?
44:30
Emily: And if those beliefs are flawed, which they should be for most of your story, then those decisions need to be mistakes.
44:36
Emily: They need to have negative consequences, at least in the long term.
44:40
Emily: Your character might think they're succeeding, like in this duty versus love situation.
44:44
Emily: Right.
44:44
Emily: He thinks he's succeeding.
44:45
Emily: He's got both love and duty.
44:47
Emily: Great.
44:48
Emily: But there's negative consequences sequences spiraling in the background that are going to come
44:51
Rachel: back to bite him.
44:54
Emily: And so that tie is very important.
44:57
Emily: That's what makes your characters feel very realistic and human and allows us to empathize with them and understand why they're doing what they're doing.
45:05
Emily: And if you want more on this, maybe we can link our internal goals podcast and our internal obstacle podcast down below for you guys so you can continue to follow this train of thought.
45:22
Rachel: Yep, I will put it in there.
45:23
Rachel: I'm trying to look and see even what the episode like numbers are, but just look in the show notes because we'll put them in.
45:31
Emily: Yeah.
45:31
Rachel: In the show notes, episode 20, internal goals give characters dimension.
45:37
Rachel: We've done a lot of episodes.
45:39
Rachel: Crazy.
45:40
Emily: All righty.
45:41
Emily: Okay.
45:42
Rachel: Wow. If you want to build a successful, fulfilling, and sustainable writing life that works for you, you've got to get on our email list.
45:49
Emily: Sign up now to get our free email course, the Magic of Character Arcs.
45:52
Emily: After seven days of email magic, you'll have the power to keep your readers flipping pages all through the night.
45:57
Rachel: Link in the show notes.
45:58
Rachel: We'll see you there by.