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SEASON 2 DA CREW PODCAST_ BONUS _EPISODE _ HOST DR CHENIZRA · DA CREW Podcast

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Oh my singer Sydney all things it was that used to be enough, where
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having all the blue Sky's boys in the bloats from the load and something well
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person missisners all things and they used to ben hello, hello, hello,
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and welcome Hello, hello, he hello, hello, hello, greetings,
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greetings, greetings. We are welcoming you yet again to Building a New Legacy
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Speaks. We like to always start with a little bit of music to just
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keep us in the right frame. You should know that one of my highlights
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is playing music that we get to create around having a purpose before I introduce
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our guests for the evening, So welcome, enjoy, Yes, I want,
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I want you. Thanks show a purpose and hair life song your life
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every day so we can live. I have a purpose all you do,
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just make your life. Just to give us a little context of how we're
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speaking of having a purpose in your life. So again, welcome to another
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broadcast of Building a New Legacy part of the US Speaks network and also part
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of the opportunity for sisters brothers to have reasonings, conversations, discussions that allow
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for us to speak truth to power, navigating through the lens of where we
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live, where we reside, where we put our energies into and how are
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we looking at these things through a lens of culture, healing, arts,
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technology and spirituality, so that we're really grounded. And how we speak of
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our shared humanity, how we speak of how we live together, how we
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respect one another, how we institute integrity and ethical engagement, loyalty, you
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know, trust, those qualities that really bring us to the next level.
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I have in the studio with me this evening and very powerful guests. I'm
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hoping that we can have him brought in to the platform as soon as possible.
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And that is none other than doctor Greetings, Greetings, doctor Gilbert L.
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Brown. Thank you so much for making time. I know you've had
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a full day. We know, yes, I'm very appreciative that you are
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able to join with us, tuning in with us, and so I'd like
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to go right to because I know we have quite a bit to discuss and
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a lot to share that we've been about off air. So I just would
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like to give some context so people are fully cognizant of who is in the
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studio with us. Doctor Edward L. Brown was born in the island of
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Saint Croix here in the Virgin Islands of the United States. He obtained degrees,
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including a Bachelor of Arts and Master of Arts from the University of Northern
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Colorado in Greeley, Colorado. He obtained a Doctor of Education in Counseling psychology
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from Audigasy University, the Sutasota Campus. Doctor Brown has spoken at the United
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Nations Fourth Committee on topics to include decolonization and self determination. Doctor Edward L.
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Brown is a National Certified counselor employed as a school counselor by the Virgin
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Islands depart Education. He is the current president of the American Counseling Association in
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the Virgin Islands and he's very passionate about the history of the Virgin Islands and
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has given numerous presentations on the transfer of the Danish West Indies from Denmark to
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the United States. In addition to that, doctor Brown loves walking and spending
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time with family members and friends, and so I wanted to just give that
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context. So welcome, so much to building a new legacy, doctor Brown.
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Thank you, doctor Chen, and good evening to everyone. I should
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have mentioned. I should go ahead and mentioned my bachelor's in psychology and my
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master's is in Community counsel, but I guess spoke to my would have figured
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that out. But it's a pleasure to be on with you this evening,
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doctor Chen. And first, I'd just like to recognize the Almighty for giving
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me another day of life, as well as the ancestral energy. I'm recognizing
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all my ancestors because without them, I would not be here in the work
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that I'm doing globally with so many others who care about self determination, decalonization
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and restorative justice. Exactly amen to that. I appreciate give that context.
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Again, like I said, culture, healing, arts, technology, what's
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that buzzword, that spirituality, that grounding that really allows us to do this
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particular work. So doctor, just real quick, but two real quick things.
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You know, virginally its history is also Nordic history. To have a
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deeper understanding of Virginalists history, I encourage everyone to have an understanding of what
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happened in Denmark and Norway and Finland and Greenland to a certain extent, to
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really get a full picture of Virginal's history. And then second, one of
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the issues, Doctor Chen, that I've really been talking to folks around the
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world, especially historians. I'm not a historian. I'm a researcher. That's
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what I consider myself to be. I respect those who have gone and study
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to become historians. Is the right to facts. I believe that is essential
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that that becomes a fundamental human right because we live in this age of deep
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fakes and ais and social media bots. But those are just tools that will
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be used for both good and bad. And I think that, especially as
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it relates to history and historical accuracy, it is important that those of us
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who love history and want healing because of some of the atrocities of the past,
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that we push as hard as we can to make the right to fact
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a fundamental human right. So I could tell that I might not need to
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go through the questions because we can just keep out. Because with the whole
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idea is to be able to offer education, and I like to highlight that
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it's education, yes, and content information and so forth. Research facts,
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but we're adding that vibration and that intellectual next level of strength so that we're
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at a following one another when we're beginning to share this information, because it's
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so that we can have an accurate perspective and accurate vision, an accurate scope,
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a more accurate perspective so that our actions can reflect that. So one
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of the things that we I'd like you to offer as a grounding as we
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have this discussion, doctor Brown, is what is the strategic importance of the
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Virgin Islands to the United States. Well, the strategic importance is that the
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Virgin isis is located along the major trade lanes as also the market access to
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the continent of Africa, to Europe, to Asia, through the Pacific,
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the Panama Canal, all to the Pacific, the United States, Central and
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South America. And then when you look at the Virgin Islands, it's only
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a thousand, one thousand, one hundred miles southeast of Florida, so we're
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right there, right close to the US mainland. And because of the strategic
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location, it offers the US military and opportunity, like I said, to
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go to Europe, to go to South America, to go to the Panama
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Canal, and as you know, they talk about submarine cables from Virginia.
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I think, if I'm not mistaken, to the Virginal more than likely Saint
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Croix, and then going on to Nigeria and Ghana. And then again also
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when you look around the world, as what's going on with China, Russia,
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Iran, and the US being challenged like it has never been challenged since
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the Spanish American War around in the eighteen ninety eight. The Virgin Islands plays
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a major role in that whole process because of our location. Well, it's
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interesting that you said that because even in one of my classes very recently,
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like tonight, as I was speeding up the steps to get prepared for tonight's
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broadcast conversation. And we may not do that tonight, but we were having
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this conversation in class because I have a number of students that aren't familiar with
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what is meant when we speak of these insular cases from nineteen oh one and
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these decisions by the US Supreme Court. Before the Virgin Islands of the United
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States became the Virgin Islands of the United States, it was still the Units
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West Indies. But these insular cases impact the relationship that we have with the
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US because they were designed to define protocol, procedure, process, and policy
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for the territories of the US. It was connected to the same Spanish American
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War that you were referencing. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you,
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Yes, because with the insular cases. Aside from the horrific racist language that
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was used, the courts really came up with the whole doctrine of incorporated and
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unincorporated and said that the US has the right to incorporate territories when it wants
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to, and it doesn't necessarily have to incorporate. But then it runs into
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a problem. That whole doctor runs into a problem of full constitutional citizenship,
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which is a fundamental human right for all human beings that you have the right
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to acquire a full constitutional citizenship, whether under the administering power or under your
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nation of birth. And so the United States is one of the few nations
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on the planet that has statutory citizenship, which is through the Congress, and
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then full constitutional citizenship through the US Constitution. And so from the nineteen hundreds
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up until nineteen fifty four, those were just judicial opinions. But in nineteen
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fifty four, through the Revisor Getting Act of nineteen fifty four and then as
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amended, the United States made it very clear. The Congress did made it
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very clear that the virginalyty is an unincorporated territory of the United States, meaning
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that the United States Congress is saying that the US will not grant full constitution
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citizenship to the inhabitants of these islands. That whole. Unincorporated is not a
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political status. Folks tend to believe it is a political status, But a
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political status refers to granting full constitutional citizenship, whether it's statehood, joining a
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state, free association, or independence. And so, since the US has
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said, at least in my opinion and my understanding, that we're unincorporated and
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they have no intentions of granting us full constitutional citizenship, statehood and joining US
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state is probably off the table if we were to move away, and then
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we're just left with free association or independence. Okay, thank you for that
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clarity, because I wanted to make sure that we gave people some context of
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how the you know, what transpired while these spaces that are now known as
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the Virgin Islands of the United States when it was the Danish West Indies,
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and that was something that was in play from seventeen thirty three until nineteen seventeen,
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just so people got context of that history. So this is just an
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I always encourage persons. Don't just believe what we say. Make sure to
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do your own research and engage and protocol that facilitates your understanding of how this
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relates to what's happening in the United States of America right now, right now,
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right now, over years later. I wanted us to speak to what
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we had discussed before around this treaty of August fourth, nineteen sixteen, because
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that gives the precursor to the ceremonial transfer and March first, exactly exactly,
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yeah, well, you know, the treaty process began in nineteen fifteen when
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Secretary of State Robert Lansing asked doctor Maurice Egan, who was the US ambassador
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to Denmark, to start secret negotiations for the Danish West Indies. And so
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doctor e approached the Danish officials Constantine Braun, who was the Danish ambassador to
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the United States, and they started negotiations for the Danish West Indies. When
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doctor Maurice Egan asked the Danish officials how much they would be willing to pay.
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The first initial offer was thirty million. The US was probably willing to
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go as high as fifty million, and eventually they settled a twenty five million
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in Goal coins, and so that process would continue up until August August fourth,
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nineteen sixteen with the Treaty of August Fort nineteen sixteen, where a Secretary
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of State and Danish ambassador Constantine brun at Hotel Builtmore. They signed the treaty
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into law, and they had certain provisions in the treaty that dealt with citizenship
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and other areas, banking. A whole lot of different issues existed at that
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time, and they were actually put into the treaty. A lot of it
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reference in property Atlanta exactly. And I think it's important that person's recognizing what
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we're doing is we're placing some of these documents where persons can go and review
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them at their leisure. Right. I think it's also important there are a
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couple of sites that I'm sure we're both going to offer, and she was
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inside of this platform so persons can keep up in terms of we're not expecting
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everyone to memorize some of this, but because these are things that are very
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pertinent, very current. Right, this is the month of April, yes,
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but it was just March thirty first, a lesson a week ago.
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And this year, you know, marked another layer of this connection with the
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United States of America, and there's still this very vague relationship, right,
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and so, and it's happening at a time where there is now a newly
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formed, well not brand new, but a relatively new formation of the Commission
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for the US Virgin Islands within the Office of Civil Rights, and there number
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that came from that, and they had a community forum just recently and some
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outcomes there's a report. I think that those are things that that I don't
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want to jump the gun. I want to stay in our order. I
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think I got excited. So then we's talked about the treaty. Yeah,
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was worth nineteen sixty. So let's move to that what you're referred to as
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that Organic Act of March third, nineteen seventeen. The Organic Act of March
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Herd nineteen seventeen is powerful, and we often don't talk about it because we
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often talk about the Organicact in nineteen thirty six. But the first organic Act
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that was made applicable to the Virgin Islands was a March Tord nineteen seventeen act,
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which is also known as Public Law Tree eighty nine. And in that
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particular piece of legislation, it's a federal piece of legislation. Section two.
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It talks about how the sixty fourth US Congress said keep everything in place.
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The nineteen oh six colonial law will remain in place, and other local laws
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made applicable to the Virginals, so they didn't change anything, and that wasn't
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uncommon. Usually when there's a change of sovereignty with nations and territories, the
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nation that is acquiring that territory tends to leave everything the same. However,
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because of some of the issues that we testified on that surfdom variant that existed
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that started in eighteen fifty three, and it appears again from the research that
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I've done that it remained up until nineteen thirty six, until we had that
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Second Organic Act and that surfdom variant. That by keeping everything in place and
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as is and the laws in place, they may be some issues, and
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I say that carefully. They may be. I believe that it was a
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violation of the thirteent Amendment. But however, there may be some inconsistencies with
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the US Constitution and the laws, the local laws, especially that existed at
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that time when the transfer occurred formally on March thirty first, nineteen seventeen.
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Okay, so when you you made a reference to a particular public law,
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what was that public law again, that's public Law sixty four, that's three
19:15
eight ninety and it might be hard to find it now. I just let
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you know that that it was easy at one time, but now you have
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to really search, really hard to find that particular public law. And I'm
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not sure why folks can make their own interpretation, but it is applicable to
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the Virgin Aleans, and like I said, it kept everything in place,
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and it also talked about the twenty five million in gold coins, and that
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a lot of folks in the Virgin nine ten to believe that we were under
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the naval rule, meaning the Department of the Navy. This particular piece of
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legislation makes it very clear that we were under the office of the president.
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However, the president that time, President Woo Joe Wilson, had the authority
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to assign a naval officer or an army officer, and that person that could
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be in the position of governor with approval of the Senate. And that is
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what happened, where the presidents then assigned naval officers, beginning with the first
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governor as we know it, who wasn't acting. He served that the first
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acting governor was it's a public but that first governor recognized was James Oliver.
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Governor James Oliver, okay, And I think it's important for people to just
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get a I don't particularly use certain sources to acquire that kind of information.
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But on the one of the links that I've just shared was a link inside
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of our platform that provides and it's from the Virgin islandshistory dot org site.
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And this is actually something that's been put together in partnership with the Virgin Islands
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of the United States and the Danish government. And so there's a number of
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documents, treaties, resources that are clearly available, and that is one of
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the documents that's available at that site. So persons can also go to that
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same link and find some of that. And I know that there were several
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concerns that inhabitants and I want to make sure I highlight this. So while
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all of this activity was going on between the Kingdom of Denmark the United States
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of America, World War One was in its pay a lot of changes happening
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around the globe. Issues with Mexican because people forget that this was also a
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time where currency like simpalins in Mexico lost value so you know, America had
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issues where they were feeling that they were losing money. There were these conversations
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on bankruptcy, et cetera. But then America secures twenty five million dollars,
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like how you said it in gold coins, not dollar money, not a
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federal reserve paper, but in gold coins to be able to deal with this
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transfer and purchase. And the inhabitants of this space that we now know is
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the virginalites in the United States. I'm not sure what all of those conversations
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were, like if persons wanted to be Danish or if they had a choice
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right And so let me just piggyback that twenty five million dollars in gold coins
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is about seven hundred million dollars right now. It's one of the most expensive
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purchases ever made by the United States and its history. And at the time
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you had different perspectives. But I wanted to focus in on the inhabitants who
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were here because they had a lot of concerns from better living and working conditions,
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racism, citizenship that we're still dealing with, how they would be viewed
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coming under the American flag again, not having all the rights and privileges because
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what happened. Remember now, there was a plebiscite in Denmark and the Danish
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citizens had the opportunity to vote on the transfer. It was like over two
23:03
hundred thousand four and like one hundred and fifty thousand against. But in the
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Danish West Indies that never occurred. And what happened was is that David Hamilton
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Jackson did an opinion poll or survey's want, if you want to call it,
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that were four thousand inhabitants here said they were for it and seven said
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that they were against it. However, again, this was not a plebiscite,
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this was not an official act that is legitimate, recognized legally, so
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it's hard to say really with a certainty how the inhabitants here felt because they
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never gave consent. And that is a monumental work consent, because when you're
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talking about governing folks, you need to recognize that they have to give consent
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that I want to follow your laws, I recognize your sovereignty. And that's
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one of the reasons we're having that issue even now as we're about to into
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the six Constitutional Convention, and the US has outlined in public law ninety four.
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That's five eight four. The one of the first provision is that we
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must recognize American sovereignty and the supremacy of federal laws. However, that was
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never given to our ancestors hearing the virginalits, and that has been recognized by
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the US State Department that there was no official vote taken in nineteen sixteen or
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nineteen seventeen on the part of the folks hearing the virginalities. And again you
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get into whether Danish citizens would have been able to participate, whether the plantation
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laborers would have been able to participate. But at the end of the day,
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no one got a chance to participate. So it really you know,
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that doesn't matter from that standpoint of the election, but it does matter in
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the standpoint of consent, correct. And what I encourage persons, I like
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to give people links and access that they can begin to look at this information
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at their own frame and when you have time to really nurture that. So
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you were hearing names like David Hamilton Jackson, who was one of our heroes,
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star warts of the Virgin Islands, and David Hamilton Jackson even in twenty
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twenty four, from twenty seventeen. Actually from this centennial period, the month
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in November by law, by legislative law is designated as David Hamilton Jackson month
25:27
period. So it gives people an understanding of the publications, you know,
25:30
the Liberty PayPal, the various labor movements, the activities did David Hamilton Jackson
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and others were instrumental too before the transfer, during the transfer, after the
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transfer purchase. And I think it's important for persons to take time and look
25:48
at some of these sites so that you can at least get that information,
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to get context of what exists in this space that most people think of land
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see some and fun. And it's not to say that there isn't that,
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but at the same time, it's good to know the context of what has
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happened in this space called the Virgin Islands of the US. And the other
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site I'll share after I ask you this other because then I really would love
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for you to navigate what are some of the things that transpired between twenty seven
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nineteen seventeen coming into twenty seventeen, and of course how does this manifest now
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in twenty twenty four What are some of those concerns? Okay, So doctor
26:30
Chand do you want me to talk about it from the concerns we have with
26:34
Denmark with restorative justice, or you want to just you want me to talk
26:37
about where we've come as a people from nineteen seventeen to present, or maybe
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I can do both, if it's up to you, if you integrate the
26:47
two of them, because it's important that we give persons that historiography. Yes,
26:52
and at the same time we're looking at how does this affect this in
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our shared humanity? Okay? And I like folks also take a moment to
27:00
read these two books, doctor Isaac Dukan, A History of the virgin Ants
27:04
of the United States, as well as Peter h. Jensen From Serfdom to
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Fireburn and Strike, The History of Black Labor in the Danish West Indies eighteen
27:15
forty eight to nineteen sixteen. Mister Peter h Jensen was a Danish historian well
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from nineteen seventeen. Of course, ten years later, we would gain citizenship
27:25
US citizenship in nineteen twenty seven. Again, in nineteen thirty six, the
27:30
Second Organic Act became law, and that had more American principles compared to again
27:38
the March Turd nineteen seventeen Act. Then in nineteen fifty four we have the
27:45
Rise of Organic Act and that has been amended, and like I stated,
27:48
it incorporates that we are unincorporated territory. And the nineteen sixties were able to
27:55
elect our first governor, who was Melvin H. Evans. He was the
28:00
first elected and the lands appointed. In the nineteen seventies, then we were
28:03
able to elect the delegate to Congress, and then we've since that moment in
28:10
time, we've had five constitutional conventions and we're going into our six Constitutional convention.
28:17
Of course, you know, we've had major disasters, which we'll touch
28:19
on hopefully on how that has led to gentrification, and I consider the Ethno
28:26
side that is going on as well in this territory. But again, we're
28:30
moving forward as a people now. Over the last twenty to thirty years,
28:34
different persons to include myself, we've traveled to New York and spoken at the
28:40
United Nations. Others have gone to Denmark, others have gone internationally to other
28:44
nations and spoken on some of the issues that we have with Denmark and historical
28:49
accuracy and talking about what occurred to our ancestors and looking towards healing and reconciliation.
28:57
I deal more with the reconciling component, the apology part, more so
29:02
than reparations and or repatriation. But they're all important. They're all important.
29:07
But I have found that to first get to those other areas, you have
29:10
to get folks to acknowledge there is a problem, do the proper research,
29:15
and then have the courage to say we're sorry. And you see that with
29:18
the Netherlands, and they went through that process, and that's probably the model,
29:23
you know, at least that I feel as a nation trying to work
29:26
through the healing process. You know, Caracom is also dealing trying and put
29:30
a lot of pressure on the British with King Charles and Prince William to address
29:36
those issues the African Union, but in particular for many of us in the
29:40
Virgin Islands when it comes to Denmark and Norway. You know, we are
29:45
looking at those two nations especially and saying, hey, you guys need to
29:48
come to the table and acknowledge that there is a problem, open up your
29:53
archives even more, listen to the research that's done by myself and others,
29:59
and then let's move forward, including the United States as well. Like I
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said, the United States left all of the Danish laws in place in nineteen
30:07
sixteen. And there is a problem, like I said, with that surfdom
30:11
variant. And we'll get into that really a little bit. But you know,
30:14
we many of us, feel that it is time for Denmark and the
30:18
United States to sit with us and for there to be historical accuracy as to
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what happened in these islands. Well, continue, continue, and the people
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okay, because see this is the part that I like for people to hear,
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because I think I of course those persons may not know this. We
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both can give disclosure because we agree on many things, and then there's certain
30:42
strategies and tactics that we may not agree on correctly to make sure that everyone
30:48
that's in that sphere can And notice I say, in that sphere not just
30:52
you know, not like the regular circle, but a multi dimensional continuum of
30:57
how we engage because we're going for the same goal and the strategy and tactics
31:03
and rhythm may look slightly different, but the intention on the outcome of the
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people, yes, exactly of the people of the Virgin Islands and beyond.
31:14
Yeah, and and and I encourage folks to do that as well. Uh,
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you know that many different voices add to the discussion, and my strategy
31:22
and the way I do things may not be what others will do, and
31:26
that's okay. You know, we're all aiming to get to that point I
31:29
think where we bring many of the farmer calonizers to the table and say,
31:33
hey, you're going to listen to us, and in other cases you're going
31:37
to you know, provide reparations and you're going to deal with repatriation. It's
31:42
going to happen, and we're not going to accept anything less. And we
31:45
understand that that the folks who live today, they're not they're not responsible for
31:52
the atrocities of the past. But your government is your government. And unless
31:57
you're ready to say well I'm not I'm not Danish anymore and I renounced my
32:01
government, your government is your government. And the actions that happened to three
32:06
hundred, four hundred, five hundred, six hundred years ago has contributed to
32:09
especially like Denmark, where they're the happiest, you know every year, the
32:14
happiest be, the happiest people, the wealthiest. Well, how did that
32:16
happen? It ain't just happen like that. It happened because of what especially
32:21
happened in these islands, and especially Charlotte Tomali where Charlotte Mamali Saint Thomas one
32:27
time was one of the major hubs during the Transatlantic slave trade. That's true,
32:32
and I think that that's one of the reasons we have these types of
32:37
conversations because a lot of times we do not have the opportunity or I just
32:43
to say, the join of privilege to really look at the different elements of
32:46
what is taking place. Historically, we don't usually have the leisure to have
32:52
some of these discussions, and when we do, it usually gets very heated.
32:58
Yes, because we have an I had a chance to have the discussion
33:00
in a more civil I'm not going to say you have to be calm talking
33:05
about colonization and enslavement, etc. I'm saying that you want to be targeted
33:10
and how you have the so that we can have an outcome that benefits the
33:15
greater good, right, And that's that's what I'll say. Because there are
33:19
components, Like what I tend to do when I'm having these conversations, I'm
33:23
always putting different bits of information into our network because it's really critical for people
33:30
to just know, like what is happening here. So when you see certain
33:36
things that may not seem like they're as peaceful or as engaging as they should
33:40
be, or they may seem slow or less developed, that there's a reason
33:45
for that. You know, when people think of impoverishment, you know,
33:49
poverty didn't just like manifest on its own. You know, there's circumstances and
33:53
conditions and institutions that have been allowed to be in place for law periods time
34:00
for that to exist. So that's part of what we're speaking of when we're
34:04
giving that context. One of the websites that I think is a really instrumental
34:08
website as well, is a website that was actually and I read from it
34:15
so people get an idea of what was the context. It's called The People's
34:20
Historical Journey to Self Determination and Decolonization, and again provides a wide array of
34:25
information, whether it's on the history of the indigenous presence in these spaces that
34:32
we know now is the Booking Islands of the US, whether it's around reparation,
34:36
restitution, repatriation. It shows you the treaties, the various resolutions of
34:42
what transpired before nineteen seventeen to present. You know, various community conversations,
34:47
some very heated. I want to highlight and prepare people. Some of it
34:52
is linked to some of the proposed all five of the proposed constitutions from the
34:58
first five constitution can. I think it's important for persons to be aware of
35:01
that, as well as status and decolonization, you know, referendums. There's
35:07
a host of articles and essays, and then you know some current issues that
35:12
are affecting the people of the Virgin Islands here. And I wanted to just
35:15
share what is in their welcome statement on this website that I'll make available again,
35:22
A people's historical journey to self determination. It says in their welcome statement,
35:28
and it quotes Virgin Islanders a quiet and humble people should not be allowed
35:35
to rule themselves for one hundred years, and when so, should be done
35:40
under white rule, for there are militants among them unquote, not my words.
35:47
This is from nineteen twenty two, talking five years after this transfer.
35:52
And this was the naval governor appointed by the US President, Sumner Eli Wetmore
35:59
Cantel. It takes me a while to go through his whole name. So
36:01
I just wanted people to get the context. So like, that's the context
36:05
of the formulation of this space that went from being the Danish West Indies transferred
36:10
to purchase for twenty five million dollars in gold coins. And I want to
36:15
highlight what you said, doctor Brown, in terms of the fact that this
36:20
is the most expensive real estate per acre ever inious history of the US States,
36:31
the United States, the United States, with all the wealth and power.
36:35
That's how important these islands are, you know, and will remain.
36:39
I tell folks all the time. The Virgin Isles is not going to get
36:43
up and go to France, you know, until the end of this planet,
36:47
which I hope is no time soon as we're going through this climate crisis
36:51
which is turning in into a climate catastrophe for those of us living in this
36:54
part of the world. These islands will be, like I said, just
36:59
a thousand away from Florida. It's that kind of relationship that we're always going
37:04
to have with the US. Compare to, for example, the Republic of
37:07
Palau, the Republic of the Marshall Islands, the mac you know, the
37:10
Federated States of Macronesia, which have a freely associated relationship with the US.
37:15
But they're so far away out in the Pacific, but they still have a
37:19
relationship with the United States, and so you know, we're having discussions here
37:23
in the territory about moving away from the United States because the United States has
37:28
indicated it's not going to grant us full constitutional citizenship. And as you said,
37:31
there are those who become very passionate about these conversations, and many will
37:37
say, well, you know, we can't leave, we get all this
37:38
financial aid. But I have many, many, many, many many many
37:43
of the reports in my private collection coming out of the US Congress, and
37:47
the US Congress has never said that. The members in the Congress, whether
37:52
it's in the House or the Senate, or even presidents of the United States,
37:54
they've never said that the Virgin Islands cannot sustain itself. It has always
38:00
said the Virgin Islands can sustain itself. It's just that we need to put
38:02
better measures in place to manage our finances. But that even goes back to
38:07
the Danish colonial period. That didn't just start with you know, Governor Evans
38:12
now up to Governor brand that's a generational issue started with Denmark and the Danish
38:20
leaders and minister in the Ministry of Finance not having the planters pay their fair
38:24
sharing taxes. That's how that started. So when I hear folks talk about
38:29
what Denmark was so heavily burdened by these islands, if you go back and
38:32
you look at the research and the data, you'll find that Denmark wasn't really
38:39
putting, you know, making the planters pay what they needed to pay,
38:43
because the planters were making so much money first off of chattel slavery and then
38:49
off of the Danish West India surfdom variant. So it was benefiting Denmark right.
38:54
And I think it's important when you talk about that surf them so because
39:00
people get a little you know, yes, there was enslavement, it was
39:02
colonization, sugar, cotton, et cetera. Remember seventeen thirty three, because
39:10
before that many of these islands were before the Danes gained their sovereignty vibration here
39:19
it was France, so I just people then it was the Dutch, specifically
39:23
Croix, definitely Saint Croix. And I think it's important to recognize that at
39:28
one point the island of Right for those who don't remember that, because we
39:30
didn't say that Virgin Islands is comprised of St Thomas, Saint John and just
39:38
so we did some context, and you want to know the size for those
39:42
persons that need that type of information. It for a square miles Saint Croix
39:45
thirty two square miles, Saint Thomas twenty square miles, Saint John two square
39:51
miles, Water Island, most expensive real estate in the history of the United
39:58
States of America. So it has value, major value, even more so
40:02
now major value even so now you know, like I said, when we
40:07
live in this age of hypersonic missiles and drones, and like I said,
40:09
it's just a hop skipping away from the continent to Africa. As you know,
40:14
doctor Chen, because you do a lot of international affairs. You know,
40:17
China, for example, is looking to build a military base along one
40:22
of the nations on the west coast of Africa. And when that happens,
40:24
because it will happen, it will be a game changer, and the value
40:28
of the Virginis will even go even higher. And I think it's important for
40:31
persons to just be aware of these things and to know that when we're speaking
40:37
because again it's this broadcast focuses on building a new legacy, because all of
40:45
this is connected, all of these things that we're speaking of or connected how
40:50
we deal with healing, how we look at criminality, how we explore this
40:55
institutionalized prison pipeline piece help persons they're incarcerated against their will for doing absolutely nothing,
41:02
and the real criminals are free. I think people need to be really
41:07
clear on how all of these things are related. The climate change that you
41:10
reference, doctor Brown, that is a very significant point because we live we
41:16
have a season called hurricane season. So some people have fall, spring,
41:21
winter, and summer. We have a whole season from June to November all
41:29
the hurricane season. And that means and sometimes it happens before you know,
41:32
we'll have flooding, We'll have we experienced. People are talking about the earthquakes
41:37
in the East Coast and I'm just saying, we get tremor all the time
41:43
every day. Okay, there we go. And it's so hot right now.
41:45
This has been the hottest March I made that I've lived most of my
41:50
life in the Virgin Islands. I've never felt it. This is hot in
41:53
March, last month and April, and I think I just read that the
41:57
next six months is going to maybe be the artists it's ever been in this
42:01
part of the world. So you know, this is again driving virgin Island,
42:07
there's out of the Virginia, but not just Virginia, and as many
42:09
Caribbean you know, people are now having a hard time living in the region
42:14
because it's just too hot, right. And I think that there's another portion
42:20
when we talk about environmental and environs affairs that impact this conversation, how it
42:28
impacts education, how it impacts how people look at these terms like self determination,
42:36
independence, free association, statehood, all these terms. Because we are
42:44
at a place where we know for sure we definitely have to be colonized.
42:50
We have a choice. We just we don't. We just don't have a
42:52
choice. No, we don't have a choice. And you know the lines
42:57
and as you said before, I talk about the surf variant, doctor Chan,
43:01
I think this is such a critical point in virgin Allen's history because you
43:07
know, I have different voices, not just my own, but other scholars
43:09
who are now saying it's time for us to have that discussion, especially with
43:13
the United States. Over the last one hundred and seven years, the voices
43:16
were pretty much the same voices, different people, but the same voice is
43:21
saying we want to incorporate, we want to incorporate, We want to be
43:23
a part of the US, and the US has said, again true the
43:27
revisorganic ACA nineteen fifty four, almost seventy years ago, that no, that's
43:31
not going to happen. And so many of us are now saying, we
43:34
want to have full constitutional citizenship. We want to be able to define who
43:38
we are and make decisions for ourselves, whether good or bad, just like
43:43
so many other nations around the world and the people around eight billion people and
43:46
it's only what seventeen it's the jurisdictions that are still not fully determined, and
43:53
we're one of them. And many of us want to get off of that
43:57
list because we know that unless the US is going to incorporate us and grant
44:01
us all the rights and privileges, which really and truly would be statehood,
44:05
which they said they're not going to do. Unless they come up with some
44:07
other way to grant us all of those rights, it's just going to be
44:12
a never ending cycle of us in this current declaration of unincorporated. And we
44:17
don't want that, many of us, right, you don't want it,
44:21
absolutely, And I think that that's the other portion because within the conversation around
44:29
reparatory justice or in that conversation. And it's interesting because a lot of persons
44:35
still see reparations in its twentyith century iteration. So people think it's just to
44:39
check the money, that kind of piece. But what has happened in the
44:44
twenty first century, and I want to speak specifically to some of the things
44:47
that are coming out of care Commons, specifically the Care of Come Operations Commission.
44:52
Right that there are a number of elements that now have shifted and expanded
44:59
that reparatory justice, that reparative component, So that person's understanding it's around resource,
45:05
it's around education, it's around addressing these types of policy issues. It's
45:09
about looking at these treaties and what needs to be revoked or needs to be
45:15
terminated. Complete me from the record. Yeah, there's things that are shifting.
45:21
And what we're seeing is we even have entities, you know, various
45:24
legalies, legal minds, you know, attorneys, judges, what persons like
45:30
they referred to as just justices around the globe that are weighing into this.
45:35
So this reparatory justice reparations piece that people thought was just like a radical we
45:40
just want to blame white people type of thing, it's not that anymore.
45:44
It was never really that, but some people highlighted that, and I think
45:49
that what's getting ready to happen before in the United Nations next week with this
45:55
permanent form for people of African descent. There's a whole conversation around some of
46:00
these areas specific to how are we handling climate change, how are we handling
46:06
education, how are we handling inequities in healthcare impacting our people, how we're
46:13
handling this conversation around reparatory justice, because to talk about reparatory justice means that
46:19
we have to look at what's happening in the prison system. We have to
46:22
look at what's happening in our institutions of higher education and our general institutions.
46:27
How dare any country deny any youth from learning the history in its accurate space.
46:35
How dare you speak of critical race theory and make it appear like you
46:38
can ban books on impulse because you do not want young people and not so
46:45
young people to know the truth of what transpired. I mean, all of
46:49
that is connected to that particular placement you were starting to speak. Because I
46:54
know time is going to shift by and I want to make sure that we
46:58
cover another portion in regards to the plantation, laborers and the system. And
47:04
let me tie this into because recently Wilma Lewis, who is a district court
47:09
judge, I think this case is going to go down. This is my
47:13
case. I think it's going to go down in one of the most major
47:16
historical historic cases that never actually got to trial, in which I brought a
47:23
case in twenty twenty two addressing the violation of the thirteent Amendment and systematic historical
47:31
disparities. I think my case is the first case to ever address systematic historical
47:37
disparities. Now, I didin't mentioned chattel slavery. I did mention the thirteent
47:40
Amendment and the violation would serve them. But I specifically, just as you
47:45
mentioned history, education, healthcare, and Judge will Ma Lewis stated that I
47:52
don't have standing, and I would send you the opinion from Judge Lewis.
47:57
I don't have standing because of the length of time. However, based on
48:00
the case law as well as the US attorneys who put forward a motion to
48:07
dismiss my case, they said that newly my case is one that should really
48:12
go to Congress, which I've always said. They said, you have the
48:15
right really this is the avenue, the medium that your issue should be dealt
48:21
with. And so these cases, as you just mentioned, the courts around
48:25
the world are now saying, yes, this issue involving reconciliation, reparations,
48:30
repatriation, restorative justice as a whole, that may be the best place,
48:36
as many of us have been saying, is the governments and not necessarily the
48:38
courts. And so with the Virgin Islands, what happened was was that most
48:45
of Virgin Islanders think of slavery only as chatter slavery. There are different forms
48:50
of human enslavement over our collective humanity, humanity, galley, slavery, conquest,
48:55
slavery, I just capture you and enslave you and serve them with started
49:00
during the Roman Empire the Middle Ages and was very well known in the Nordic
49:05
countries to include Denmark, Iceland and Norway. They had various variants of surfdom.
49:08
Surfdom is where you're bound to the soil. I keep you from moving
49:13
to another district, to another state, and then you have to work for
49:17
the nobility. Your craps and your goods will go to the nobility, to
49:21
the military. And that was a system that ended in Denmark in the late
49:25
seventeen hundred, Crown Prince Frederic six ended that particular surfdom variant. And so
49:34
what happened after eighteen forty eight with chattel slavery was that in eighteen forty nine
49:38
they had the labor regulations, and those labor regulations then combine with the Ordinance
49:45
to prevent vagrancy in the Danish West India Islands on August eighteen, eighteen fifty
49:51
three. Those two combined to create that surfdown variant. And that's when you
49:55
hear a lot of the folks were saying, this feels like slavery again.
50:00
Special beIN Mary and those state laborers which we testified on that particular bill,
50:06
that they fought against that surfdom variant, and a lot of folks tend to
50:10
believe that they were able to be successful because what happened after they did that
50:15
uprising because the surfdom variant was stronger on Saint Curd and Saint Thomas and Saint
50:21
John because we were more agricultural based up until the nineteen sixties. So folks
50:24
tend to believe that that labor they called it the labor uprising, but it
50:28
was more than labor that they were successful. But they were not successful in
50:34
ending that surfdom variant, because in eighteen seventy nine, what the Danish Colonial
50:39
Council and the Danish leadership allowed in Denmark was that they instituted a new vagrancy
50:45
law called the Ordinance to prevent Vagrancy and Begging in the Danish West India Islands,
50:51
and that continued that surf dumb variant, and it never I haven't found
50:55
any document to show that they ended it. Like King Christian the Tent before
51:00
the transfer said all laws that are now in existence in the Danish West India
51:06
Islands is no longer applicable. There's nothing there in the Treaty of August for
51:10
that states that if you read it, to look at it for the folks
51:14
who are looking, you will not find anything from King Christian the Tent stating
51:17
that the local laws and the nineteen oh six colonial law is no longer in
51:22
effect. And that's how the United States was able to continue to make the
51:28
nineteen oh six colonial law and the other laws applicable. They should have ended
51:32
it, doctor Chen, that's the problem. They should have ended it,
51:37
but they did it because they didn't. They were more focused on Saint Thomas.
51:40
Many of the leaders who came to evaluate the islands never came to Saint
51:46
Croix, and if they had come to Saint Croix like they did after nineteen
51:51
seventeen, they would have saw what everyone then who came to and said,
51:54
this is horrendous, this is slavery going on in these islands. And this
51:59
was nineteen twenty correct, correct, So that's why now this is so historic
52:04
with that particular case that I talked about, and I'll share it with you
52:07
and you can share it with folks around the world. Doctor channel. I'm
52:10
trying to get the hearing now before the Subcommittee on Indian and Insular Affairs in
52:17
the US Congress, because that's where I'm supposed to go. Now, hopefully
52:21
I'll finally get the hearing so that I can put this on the record and
52:25
challenge the US government to do a proper investigation as to what went on here
52:30
for historical reasons. And the Danes, the Danish leadership actually had told me
52:37
when I went to the UN in twenty eleven, go to Congress and we'll
52:40
answer all your questions as it relates to what we did. They don't.
52:45
Let me be clear. They are not saying that what I'm saying is true.
52:49
They're not denigning. They said that they want to talk to the US,
52:52
and I've made it clear to the US. Go in the US and
52:54
demo you're not going to exclude me. And I think it's a really important
53:00
that we remember that. When you're saying that they're not going to include you
53:05
or me, we really mean we And that's right, right, because,
53:08
right, because it's really important because sometimes they think that it's like a singular
53:14
or an insular tough funny tale, an insular situation, but that's not true.
53:19
It's just that many persons do not have. This has been going on
53:23
for over a century. This is this has reached the place of of intolerance,
53:30
and sometimes people do get angry and it will come across very emotional.
53:32
And it's not emotion that we're operating through. We're operating through having information,
53:37
knowing that we're following particular policy, protocol and procedure, and not being able
53:42
to get it through as is our right, our human right. This is
53:47
beyond civil So I just want people to just in case they don't get that,
53:52
So give me a second, because real quick to doctor Chen. And
53:57
when I say me, is because and I think this is import one of
54:00
the things that I have done, I've gone and gotten copyrights, so and
54:05
I think that's what I encourage others to do with their research, go and
54:07
get a copyright because you just mentioned doctor Chen. When these discussions go on,
54:14
a lot of times, folks then start to exclude the voices that they
54:16
don't want to hear. And with what I have said to FOK, when
54:20
you have that copyright from the US Copyright Office, so whether you get your
54:23
official copyright as well as the poor man's copyright which is just slap the copyright
54:28
on it, that is legal, so that they can't say, well,
54:31
we don't want to hear from doctor Chen or doctor Brown or whoever it is.
54:35
No, you're going to hear our voices in it, because we have
54:37
the legal right to participate in the process. So that's why I want to
54:42
client for when I say me, I mean they can't exclude my copyrights and
54:46
having me happy voice in those discussions. But it's us because all of us
54:52
right, and I think that that's what we were referencing. It takes us
54:55
back to what we started with tonight. Is that our ancestors in nineteen sixteen
55:01
nineteen seventeen did not have a voice and there were and they did not consent
55:08
to what transpired in this transfer. They did not get any of the twenty
55:14
five million dollars in gold coins. So that's why I come back to that
55:19
reparatory justice piece, and na's how they're still strigging. So just for the
55:23
purposes of us closing this has been a fabulous opportunity, we definitely have to
55:29
have you return so that we can have the I won't call it the part
55:31
too, but just the continuum of bringing some of this information and being able
55:36
to share some of these resources. I'm very grateful for you making time to
55:39
join us here on building a new legacy. Thank you speaks doctor Edward L.
55:46
Brown, and I tend to refer to you as a Virgin Islands historian,
55:51
even though that's not everybody does know. I guess you gave us the
55:54
chronology of what trans has transpired, so you know, and I appreciate that
55:59
you highlighted that this is some of the research that you've been very passionate and
56:02
are using your skills, talents and expertise through the lens of that psychology training
56:08
that Council, et cetera to be able to offer that. I would like
56:13
to make sure that I also let pearsons know if they're not familiar with the
56:17
care Com ten point reparations piece. I also made that link available because those
56:22
things range. Those ten points range from debt cancelation to technology transferred to psychological
56:30
rehabilitation, African Knowledge Program, a literacy eradication, public health crisis, cultural
56:37
institutions, Indigenous People's Development program, repatriation, and a full formal apology,
56:44
which is number one. I shared them from ten to one, but I
56:47
just would like to make sure that persons can go to that website and actually
56:51
learn a little bit more information about what has transpired within the Caribbean Community's point
57:00
plan around reparations. And you can learn even more from the cara Com Reparations
57:05
Commission, and persons that want information can easily communicate with them. But next
57:08
week, from the fourteenth to the seventeenth of April, the Permanent Form for
57:15
People of African Descent designated through the United Nations is going to be hosting its
57:20
third session. So I've placed that website and body of our work as well,
57:25
and I want to just highlight what some of these panels are. The
57:29
first panels on reparations and sustainable development and economic justice and that will be happening
57:34
on Wednesday the seventeenth from approximately ten to one o'clock and then Panel two will
57:43
follow that and it's on education, Overcoming systemic Racism and Historic card and Panel
57:51
three on Thursday the eighteenth of April will be on culture and recognition. Panel
57:58
four is going to be on the second International Decade for People of African Descent,
58:02
Expectations and Challenges, and that too will be on Thursday, April eighteenth.
58:07
I think it's important for persons to just be familiar with what these situations
58:13
are that are going to be taking place, and that includes everyone of African
58:17
descent, everybody impacted, which we know where the original humans have their grounding,
58:24
so this is a very big piece. So I think it's important for
58:28
persons to know that the United Nations Human Rights Office of the High Commissioner for
58:32
Human Rights is engaged in this. This allows this third session to expand,
58:37
and of course some persons, you know, getting an invitation is wonderful.
58:42
Having all the resources to travel and be there physically is another, you know,
58:46
so I'm very grateful and glad to know that we have, you know,
58:50
some representation in terms of papers and so forth that some of us have
58:53
submitted, you know, in terms of our positions, some of what you've
58:57
shared. I encourage you to make that available so that that I will also
59:00
be part of that record. Because of the court case, and I've spoken,
59:06
like I said, at the UN, and they well know some of
59:07
the issues with Denmark. But I will provide you the court case and you
59:10
can forward it to some of your friends and I'm certain they will be interested
59:15
in reading it. The UN. Folks at the UN know me very well.
59:19
Like I said, it's a historic case. At least what I'm hearing
59:22
from other folks is the first one, like I said, with systems,
59:24
and I use that word systematic historical disparity because these were systems that were developed
59:30
and these systems still impact us today. And I think that, as you
59:34
mentioned, as we progress and we do the research and we have the discussions,
59:37
there's no reason to get upset or angry. We just have the discussions
59:42
and move forward and in the end, everything I think will work out,
59:45
even if it takes another twenty thirty forty years. That's not the point the
59:47
process forward. We're not going to let it take twenty thirty forty years.
59:52
There you go, there you go. I think we've done enough twenty thirty
59:55
forty years. I agree. I want to thank you to doctor Edward L.
1:00:00
Brown again, my listeners, viewers, thank you for joining us here
1:00:04
on building a new legacy. I speaks as part of season two The Crew
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Podcast. Want to send a special shout out to all my sister queens who
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are supporting the broadcast and to all my brothers. I'm grateful, right So
1:00:21
keep moving with that purpose. Who make sure a purpose and this life,
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son John lives every day. Just make sure you this and away have a
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purpose and all you do so your life. Nice fu