Latest / Learn Literacy Podcast / 19. Ken Bignell - Unlock Literacy Growth
Transcript
- Cheryl Urbanczyk: Hello everyone and welcome to this episode of the Learn Literacy Podcast, where we focus on teaching language for life by teaching literacy through language and structure. So I'm excited today for this practitioner profile, and with me is Ken Bignell from Ontario. Welcome Ken, how are you today? Ken Bignell: And I'm doing well. Thank you for inviting me. Cheryl Urbanczyk: ⁓ you're welcome. It's great to hear what people are doing locally and around. So, why don't you just first tell how you heard about OG and what led you into wanting to be an OG practitioner. Ken Bignell: Yeah, sounds good. Okay, well, first of all, when I was a classroom teacher, ⁓ would I had some students that were really struggling in the classroom with reading and writing, ⁓ ⁓ spoke to a friend of mine whose daughter ⁓ dyslexic and said, Hey, what are some options that are available to support your daughter? ⁓ And he actually me to the idea of ⁓ searching up ⁓ Gillingham, which led me to your website ⁓ and ⁓ then ⁓ reached out to and to get some more information and realized that this was definitely some tools and some skills that I needed to enhance my classroom teaching. ⁓ from there, took the course with you that summer and ⁓ immediately started put it to practice. ⁓ Cheryl Urbanczyk: Interesting. And what do you think it offered you that your teacher training didn't? You said you were ⁓ teacher for a long time. ⁓ what were some missing pieces that you found in OG or an insight or a skill set or or something that allowed you to then support these students? Ken Bignell: Well definitely the and prescriptive nature, ⁓ you following a scope and sequence, ⁓ y the process of OG, the of Orton Gillingham, ⁓ you know, the repetition, just the overall impact that it had on students. Like it was the focusing on ⁓ the elements of language ⁓ as opposed to here's a word sound it out well if a student doesn't know the sounds it makes it really hard for them to sound out and so just even going back for me going back to what are the building blocks of a word you know what is the individual sounds the phonemes and graphemes that make ⁓ you know the reading and possible and so that was definitely something that OG Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Ken Bignell: Yeah. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Interesting. So y you mentioned diagnostic and prescriptive is like the first thing in your list and you listed many great things. So what why did that be the first one that you said? Ken Bignell: I think one of the things that really ⁓ I really grasped onto with Orton Gillingham was the fact that it's not a one-size-fits-all model. It's not a curriculum. It's a process. And so when I'm working with students, I'm trying to figure out how is the best way or what is the best method for meeting their needs. And so, during an Orton Gillingham session, I would have an opportunity to work with a student and if they made a mistake, there's the diagnosis. ⁓ And how am going to fix that and what am I going to do with that? It's not a cookie-cutter approach and every single session is unique and interesting actually because I get to, meet that student's needs ⁓ right and there. ⁓ And so that's what I meant by diagnostic and you know figuring out what was the mistake and the error and ⁓ working to it and correct it. Cheryl Urbanczyk: That's wonderful. I I feel we could improve so much regular classroom teaching if teachers learn more about how to be diagnostic and prescriptive. Like there's different, types of assessment like formative, summative, like those types of things, ⁓ but ⁓ The way I think diagnostic and prescriptive is an OG is like a much tighter, smaller feedback loop as opposed to like over time. Cause you're the more time you spread those things over, the more time kids can practice errors or are confused or things like that. Ken Bignell: And certainly when work one on one with students, ⁓ you have the to, like I said, hear directly what is that mistake and to focus on it as opposed to getting lost in a in a big crowd of ⁓ formative and summative as well. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Exactly. So you've been an OG practitioner for some years now. What do you see as your change in your practice from, when you first did the training to where you are now, fast forward some years and being an associate is awesome. ⁓ Ken Bignell: Yes, thank you. I definitely think when I started out, it was a learning curve just for me. ⁓ And often about the automaticity of ⁓ helping students get to point where they're just so automatic with their letters and their sounds and ⁓ what spellings go with sound. And so for me as a practitioner, ⁓ there are just certain aspects now the program that are very ⁓ automatic. and so therefore ⁓ I don't have to rely on written notes as much because of the fact that I just know what I want to do next. It's also given me the opportunity to pivot. And if I see that something's not meeting a student's needs in the middle of a lesson, I have the ability to pivot to something else. always looking for the win, I'm always looking for the hurrah moment. And if I see a student really struggling, then I will try something else that will give that student success and make them feel good about the session. That's really important to me. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Yeah. I'm trying to pick which of the many rich things that you said to go next with, but ⁓ I think point that you said about pivoting is really key because it, goes to that emotional soundness and keeping that student in, a safe space, so to speak. ⁓ And and that to me ties in what you said about the experience piece. And I think ⁓ what I found ⁓ Ken Bignell: Yeah. Cheryl Urbanczyk: kind of in general is teaching adults is like we want to be there fast. You know, I'm I'm gonna take the training, I'm gonna know how to do everything the next day. And sometimes we don't give ourselves the grace or the time or what have you, like, okay, we are adult learners and we follow similar processes and working through things and practicing it and automatizing certain things. And so ⁓ it's great to hear that you kind of work through that and are in a more comfortable spot and ⁓ and like that, which is really good. Mm-hmm. Ken Bignell: Yeah, well definitely like for me, I'm a doer when I when I learn. So ⁓ course was great. I got a lot of practical hands ⁓ ⁓ and opportunities, ⁓ really for me the practicum was the the time where I learnt the most ⁓ was able to stretch myself and think you know very thankful for your ⁓ and support as I went through that, you know, ⁓ many months of training, additional training, because I felt like for me. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Ken Bignell: that's where it really started to come to light. ⁓ And I mean I think back to my earlier mistakes that I made and I learned from those mistakes and and they helped me grow ⁓ as well. So I realize it's a it's a process just as much as it is for the students. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That that is very true. And so you're in a different part of Ontario than I am, but what do you see about the context or the need for support for students with dyslexia or or learning needs where you are and how are you helping to meet those needs? ⁓ Ken Bignell: I I'm in ⁓ southwestern Ontario and so I actually have a very broad geographic region ⁓ and ⁓ students are travelling in cases up to two hours to come to me. ⁓ and ⁓ there there's not a of individually for students, ⁓ beyond ⁓ where I am ⁓ so they they're kind of between having to drive really far ⁓ or remote or online opportunities. ⁓ Cheryl Urbanczyk: Yeah. Ken Bignell: Which has been sort of a a new development, of course, in the past couple of years. but for the most part there there are not a lot of Orton Gillingham trained associates, ⁓ fellows. There's just there's not very many down in this part of Ontario. Cheryl Urbanczyk: So people who are driving all this way to find you, do you have a success story or something you'd like to share that kind of shows the impact of the work that you do? Ken Bignell: ⁓ definitely. I mean, one of my young students, she was entering high school actually, ⁓ she came ⁓ ⁓ this was sort of right at the very beginning, so I'm like, okay, well, we have to start with some sounds. ⁓ know, she was not familiar with all of her short vowels and and ⁓ mixing up some consonant sounds as well. And so I really started ⁓ a very basic scope and sequence. Like, let's just start with letter sounds and then start to grow from there. ⁓ the parents were very open. open to the idea that this is gonna be a process, twice a week and it's gonna be a couple years probably. and the happiest moment for me was I found out that she passed the ⁓ OSSLT, the Unserio Secondary School literacy test. and she was able to take that and pass it. ⁓ And so that very, ⁓ it's an exciting for me. It's exciting moment for her. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Ken Bignell: And you know, I mean a student who had to ask her friends to read her text messages to her in class because she couldn't play them out loud and was only doing voice to text. ⁓ by the time she's, going into grade twelve and is very excited ⁓ because she's able to, and write and there's still some struggles obviously, but ⁓ much more confident now than she a couple years ago. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Sometimes hard to take a perspective like for example, learning to read, I just I don't know how I did it. I think I just figured it out. So ⁓ you know, for some the the challenge is is so real. So you mentioned that's an older student. What age groups do you see mostly in in your practice? Is it younger kids, older, or you kind of have a mix of different people you see? Ken Bignell: There there's definitely a mix. I think the the youngest student I've seen has been sort of, you know, that grade one, grade two, ⁓ ⁓ all the way up until, grade nine, grade ten. There there's just a wide variety. for some of the the younger students, they just do not have the ⁓ know the phonemic awareness. whereas the older students they're very good at memorizing. ⁓ And some of them have, I have to change things up for them because I I can't really start with cat. It just does not go over as well. ⁓ Cheryl Urbanczyk: Yeah. Exactly. That's so true. And so in terms of supporting those older students, what have what have you been trying? What new learning have you done? ⁓ how have you approached that then? Ken Bignell: Yeah, definitely. Well, I mean obviously we have to start with do we know our letter sounds? but once we sort of got through those early stages, definitely on your advice have been focusing more on the morphology and ⁓ helping the students ⁓ just ⁓ that there are words and that there are prefixes and suffixes and that we can put these together to make bigger words. ⁓ just an understanding of syllables even ⁓ and so just drafting lessons them ⁓ that focus ⁓ on a bit harder but also just takes them away from the memorization of ⁓ whole Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Right. Ken Bignell: words to let's look at a word and and what can you ⁓ pull of this word that you recognize okay then we go from there I've also gotten into helping some students specifically with subject specific ⁓ vocabulary for example know geography ⁓ or science or like there's just ⁓ certain ⁓ vocabulary that can break down and and help them with Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I I think those two things you mentioned go together really well because all of those content words are multisyllabic and have prefixes as suffixes and word parts and and all that. So it kind of all goes together. So that's really neat. Yeah. Ken Bignell: Yeah, definitely things we take for granted if we don't think back to having to break it down into individual components. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think supporting older students with the multisyllabic word reading is to me kind of a missing link in the field of science of reading and you know, getting the info out there about it. So what would you say is a pressing concern a challenge in your practice or context where you are? Ken Bignell: ⁓ definitely I'm always ⁓ excited to see parents who are keen to help. And you know, they they want to help and so therefore I review with them the sounds. And found it very interesting when parents, ⁓ schwa the you know the letter ⁓ they'll go, ⁓ is the letter sound. ⁓ And ⁓ I'm seeing lot that. well that's the way their classroom teacher asked us to say it out loud, or ⁓ and the classroom teacher may understand that we're just looking for root base sounds ⁓ when we're doing letters, and you know, to nobody's fault. It seems Cheryl Urbanczyk: Right. Mm-hmm. Right. Ken Bignell: seems very natural to add an sometimes like pu and huh but then it also impacts students and their ability to transfer that to a letter and to a spelling. And so I I've seen a lot of that. so just understanding of the base language or root sounds. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. No, that's interesting. No, go ahead. Ken Bignell: I was just gonna say I I've seen that and you know, this the fact that ⁓ the parents there's just not a lot of opportunities with people who are ⁓ well to actually help them and support them ⁓ with those proper sounds. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm. Yeah. Yeah, it it's interesting 'cause I think we have that situation where, parents ⁓ add chows do some of those kinds of things. But then, there's also a generation of parents coming up that may have never even learned through phonics at all because of their age. So ⁓ interesting times for sure in terms of parent knowledge and and advocacy and things like that. So what about yourself? Like where is a area of growth for you or a place you'd like to learn more? Where do you see yourself ⁓ extending your learning? Ken Bignell: Well definitely w yeah, definitely. I mean working with high school students is becoming ⁓ more more popular ⁓ and had a lot of parents reach out to me. So ⁓ I some ⁓ advice early in the summer from you. I I've picked up a couple resources. reading isn't optional is a great book. ⁓ Yeah, so it's a great book that you had recommended to me. ⁓ the other one was Cheryl Urbanczyk: ⁓ I just got that and read it. Yeah. It's a good part. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Ken Bignell: you know, just ⁓ catching up with ⁓ how to prepare lessons for older students. So it's that's stretching my learning right now. I'm also in the process of working ⁓ somebody locally to develop a bit of a screening tool ⁓ might be used in a preschool opportunity. So the this this person and I are working together to, what can we do to help parents who don't know any better, who would like to know more. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Ken Bignell: And so just try to put that sort of together and how do we practically go about offering that type of service in the community. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm. ⁓ that's really neat. Yeah, I think What one area I'm I've read a lot more and trying to learn more about is the role of oral language. And so when you're talking about preschool, that's kind of what came to my mind because without that foundation of oral language and conversation and understanding, even complex oral language, word usage, ⁓ we of assume kids come to school with the oral language skills, but maybe they're all in different different places so ⁓ that's really neat. And what was the need that arose for that screener? Just providing parent ⁓ and teaching? Ken Bignell: No, definitely. Pretty much, yes. several parents came to me and said, I have a child who's ⁓ going kindergarten next year. What what do I need to be looking for? ⁓ And is anything that's, quick and easy that I can provide to them or slash offer to them that would be, this is sort of like an extension of of what I do with my older students, but ⁓ not for taking on as a a tutoring student, but in a sense of, hey parents, here's something that you can work with. I just feel like that's a very important ⁓ need right now. Cheryl Urbanczyk: That's good. Yeah, I think when we really think of ⁓ you've been saying about the different ages students you work with, that that literacy is so much of a continuum. And sometimes I feel frustrated because I think so much of the conversation is on early literacy and phonics and we're kind of forgetting skills that feed into early literacy and how kids keep growing in their literacy after. And ⁓ ⁓ hoping ⁓ Ken Bignell: Mm. Cheryl Urbanczyk: that conversation gets a little wider on both sides so we can support students. Yeah. Ken Bignell: Exactly. Yeah, and I think that, we're we're in the middle. There's great support. ⁓ but yes, ⁓ you before you go to school and hey, what do we do, you know, sort of after grade six where, ⁓ you spelling becomes less important, ⁓ but it's still important. So, you know, how do we how do we support those bookends? ⁓ Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Exactly. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I definitely agree with that. So ⁓ w when decided to set up your independent practice, ⁓ do you you've reached the goal that you set out for yourself at that time? Ken Bignell: Hmm. I definitely do. one of my goals was just how do I help students who are struggling? And I actually wondered, you know, you know, could I do this in such a way that I you know didn't need to go back to the classroom because I wasn't sure what need there would be to be honest. ⁓ I've been very surprised in a very good way ⁓ just about the fact that lots of students out there who need help ⁓ and need support. ⁓ Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Ken Bignell: And so that in a sense has been very fulfilling for me. I get to see lots of students come in and I love to see students graduate. I to see parents, ⁓ when go take their child for, psychoeducational assessments after a couple years ⁓ and, ⁓ say, well, they longer need my because they've now attained, a sufficient level of phonological training, ⁓ reading, writing support that they don't need me anymore. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Ken Bignell: I find that very satisfying, very gratifying. So Cheryl Urbanczyk: It is. It i it is neat. It it's like it's bittersweet 'cause you like that's ⁓ there's such a strong bond with students you work with, right? In terms of seeing them so often, ⁓ understanding how to support them emotionally feeling for where they're at that kind of when you send them off it's like ⁓ ⁓ Ken Bignell: Yeah. It it is a little I agree. Yeah. And like you say, you you have to build that relationship because there will be times where you have students who are frustrated or discouraged and you have to be able to pick them up and and get them, going again. And ⁓ sometimes not easy, but yeah, definitely building trust and and establishing long term relationships are is been very ⁓ Cheryl Urbanczyk: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Ken Bignell: Yeah, it's just been a great opportunity for me as well in that sense. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. So what are some of your go-to strategies then for helping students and to build that relationship? Ken Bignell: ⁓ right off the bat I certainly try to engage them in activities and things that they like. And and what I mean is so if a student loves sports and it could be hockey for example, you know, just talking into that, but also, even just being able to create, I don't know, spelling lists, reading ⁓ that for lesson is all gonna be on ⁓ hockey related materials and ⁓ The wonderful world of AI has actually helped in some sense because I can type in, ⁓ create CVC word list all about hockey. ⁓ And print me out a list that ⁓ will and then I can, you know, ⁓ go that. for even topics that I'm not very familiar with, like for for some of my ⁓ students, it's Barbie dolls. I don't know much about Barbie dolls. ⁓ even though I'm a dad of three ⁓ daughters, ⁓ get Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. ⁓ okay. Yeah. Yeah. There's always some toy or some something if we don't know. Ken Bignell: Right. Exactly. So it it's been very helpful. and you relate with them better when you can share commonality. And so this is just a way of making that connection. and and I think Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. ⁓ I think I think that's completely Mm-hmm. Yeah. ⁓ Ken Bignell: Mm-hmm. And I think for some students they have they come with dreams. that high school student that I mentioned earlier, she wanted to read Harry Potter. Well, I was able to create an entire Harry Potter selection ⁓ of words and banks, ⁓ and ⁓ you she able to actually ⁓ read a C C ⁓ book that we were able create together, actually. And that was sort of another thing. Like, ⁓ let's do this together and what are some ⁓ Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. So yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓ I think that's amazing. That that just speaks to how much you care for your students and your expertise and and all the great problem solving or creativity, however you want to phrase it. But I I think Ken Bignell: Yeah, and it it worked out really well. Yeah. Cheryl Urbanczyk: And that's what's so special when something's an approach and not a program. Because I feel like if if we just get the standard word lists and give the same word list to every kid, it's it's not necessarily going to reach them. And that individualizing, ⁓ catching to their interests is so key because if we imagine the amount ⁓ of lack of or failure they've had and then ⁓ Whatever we can use to catch them, to drag them along and gain that interest is so important. ⁓ Ken Bignell: Mm-hmm. that's you know, that's the ⁓ the individualization and customization and like you said earlier or I mentioned earlier, you know, being able to pivot ⁓ right away to something else. 'cause that that's all important for reaching ⁓ these students. that's what I love about the process of OG as opposed to a curriculum or a set you know, a set of materials that you have to buy. ⁓ Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Exactly. Exactly. And then, that teacher skill piece comes into it too, right? So you have th those tools to pivot and to work through this and stuff. So ⁓ you said you met your goal of where you wanted to be as an independent practitioner. So where do you see yourself moving forward then? ⁓ Ken Bignell: Yeah, definitely. Mm-hmm. ⁓ helping students is always goal. and so ⁓ if I can support other who would like to go down this adventure, then that's ⁓ been sort of in the of my mind as well. ⁓ is it possible to go broader? ⁓ we talked earlier about the idea of remote opportunities and ⁓ there families that are, struggling with distance ⁓ and have some who in some situations two hours is too much to drive. ⁓ So, ⁓ you know, next those? and I do have some students who I work with remotely ⁓ and I enjoy that and see progress and I'm very excited by that opportunity. ⁓ but you know what what it take to to help support a teacher in a rural community, for example, ⁓ so they too can help other students. So that that's sort of in the back of my mind as ⁓ what be a next big step. ⁓ Cheryl Urbanczyk: ⁓ nice. Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. ⁓ cool. That's neat. And so what would be a piece of advice you could give to people based on your journey and your learning and where you are now? ⁓ what would you want to leave people with? Ken Bignell: Well certainly don't be afraid to try new things. ⁓ Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Ken Bignell: I I think that was something as I approached my sort of midlife, I was like, What am I going to do? But it was basically, if there were you know, I identified a need, and I think that was really important. I mean, teachers we we are taught and asked, like, how do we support our students in the classroom? And we always see needs and we always want to do more. and so this was just one of those things where you ⁓ have to go and it. Cheryl Urbanczyk: mm-hmm. Ken Bignell: So not to be afraid to do it because there the need is there and would love to, like I said, I'm happy to help anybody who would be interested in ⁓ learning about this, because it's it's available. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Yeah. ⁓ that's amazing. That's good. And I I think, what you said is so important because I found when people to OG learning, it's often a very different way of doing things than how they learned in their teacher training. So it's kind of reorienting ⁓ your way of literacy and how you view things and things like that. So it is something new. So yeah. Well Ken Bignell: Yeah. Cheryl Urbanczyk: It sounds like you've had a great impact and are doing wonderful things, which is amazing. And thank you so much for being here today and for having this conversation. I'm sure you are planting great seeds in people who are listening and giving them inspiration on ways that they can help other students. So thank you so much. ⁓ okay. Thank you. Take care. Bye. Ken Bignell: Thank you again for having me, Cheryl. All right. Bye.