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114: Christmas Ghost Stories in Victorian England and Beyond · Common Mystics

• 0:10
  Speaker A: On this episode of Common Mystics, we discuss a holiday tradition that peaked in Victorian England and has sadly, perhaps, since gone out of fashion. I'm Jennifer James.
• 0:25
  Speaker B: I'm Jill Stanley.
• 0:27
  Speaker A: We're psychics. We're sisters. We are common mystics. We find extraordinary stories in ordinary places. But today, we're talking about Christmas ghost stories.
• 0:39
  Speaker B: That's right. Because, Jennifer, this is our Christmas special, which means. Meow, meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow.
• 0:50
  Speaker A: Meow meow meow meow meow meow meow.
• 0:51
  Speaker B: Meow meow meow meow meowow meow meow meow meow meow meow. That's a great song to meow. I welcome anyone to try it.
• 0:59
  Speaker A: I'm sorry, you guys. I did not know she was going to do that. So, Christmas ghost stories. I'm so excited.
• 1:08
  Speaker B: Yes. Are you sad that they're kind of, like, out of style?
• 1:12
  Speaker A: A little. I mean, we'll get to it, but a little. Because I. I love the classic that we're about to discuss.
• 1:20
  Speaker B: Well, let's just jump right into it. Tell me. Tell me what's on your mind.
• 1:24
  Speaker A: Well, Charles Dickens, of course.
• 1:26
  Speaker B: You always have Dickens on your mind.
• 1:31
  Speaker A: Nice. You're not wrong. But Charles Dickens, of course, famously wrote the story that we know of as A Christmas Carol.
• 1:41
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 1:42
  Speaker A: 1843. That's. She old. She's an oldie, but a goodie.
• 1:49
  Speaker B: She still looks good.
• 1:50
  Speaker A: She still look good. Are you a fan of the story?
• 1:54
  Speaker B: I am not going to lie to you. After Dickens traveled to my home state of Illinois, my. Where I was the place of my birth, and talk shit about Caro or Cairo, Illinois. It's like, you know, this is the thing. We can talk shit.
• 2:11
  Speaker A: Right?
• 2:11
  Speaker B: We were born on that land. That's our shit. But don't you come over here talking shit. Like, I can talk shit. It's like, don't talk shit about. Like, let me talk shit about my shit. But you can't.
• 2:22
  Speaker A: Mm, that's fair. That's. That's a hundred percent fair.
• 2:25
  Speaker B: Mm. I'm a little. So. I'm still angry about it, you know.
• 2:28
  Speaker A: So you don't like anything associated with Dickens because he came to Illinois and talked some shit about Carroll, Illinois.
• 2:34
  Speaker B: I never said I didn't like anything I said. That's like the first thing that pops into my head. It's like, oh, the prick came to Illinois and was talking shit. Then I can be like, once I say that first. Then I can be more pragmatic about it and be like, well, the Christmas story was kind of good. You know what I mean? But I have to say it first.
• 2:51
  Speaker A: Let's talk about. First of all, let me say, I hear you.
• 2:56
  Speaker B: Thank you.
• 2:56
  Speaker A: I see you. I'm going to validate those feelings.
• 3:00
  Speaker B: I feel so heard.
• 3:01
  Speaker A: But for the sake of this talk, let's just separate the man from the art. Can we?
• 3:08
  Speaker B: I will do my best.
• 3:10
  Speaker A: Thank you.
• 3:10
  Speaker B: He did give us the classic bah humbug.
• 3:13
  Speaker A: He did. He did. And it was very influential, as we will see in this talk. But first, Jill, let's do a little summary of A Christmas Carol for those people who might not have seen it or read it in a while.
• 3:30
  Speaker B: Omg. Do you need me to Jillsplain.
• 3:33
  Speaker A: I would love you to Jillsplain.
• 3:36
  Speaker B: This is so excited. I was not prepared to do this. But okay, so there is this old ass prick, right? And he's living in, like, London, and he has a nephew. And the nephew doesn't even like him, but he's kind of like, nice to him because he's like. He's an old prick. What are you going to do?
• 3:47
  Speaker A: Right, well, he's also employing him.
• 3:50
  Speaker B: True, true.
• 3:50
  Speaker A: You have to be nice to the old prick who employs you.
• 3:53
  Speaker B: I didn't get there. I didn't get there yet.
• 3:54
  Speaker A: Oh, sorry, sorry. I'll be quiet.
• 3:56
  Speaker B: Okay, so anyway, so like, the old prick's partner dies, okay?
• 3:59
  Speaker A: Jacob Marley.
• 4:01
  Speaker B: Jacob Marley dies. And he's. And he's even more prickish about it. He's like, fuck Marley. Just dead. And so his nephew, who happens to work for him, who's kind of nice to him, but kind of like, is like fenemies, you know what I mean? He's like, hey, uncle, what up, boo? But he's like, you know, you a prick, right? Anyway, so he doesn't even like him. And he's like. He goes off and he does Christmas without his uncle. Because, like, his uncle likes nothing that is nice or kind or pure or. He hates joy.
• 4:29
  Speaker A: He just doesn't want to be around that energy. Nobody does.
• 4:31
  Speaker B: Yeah, he just. He hates joy. He's like, fuck it. So there's also a guy that works for him. I forgot his name. But he has a son named Pritchett.
• 4:39
  Speaker A: Is it Pratchett?
• 4:41
  Speaker B: I know, I forgot his name. It's one of those. It's an itch. And he has like, a bunch of kids. But his youngest son, Tiny Tim, he has a very bad limp or abnormality when it comes to his.
• 4:54
  Speaker A: Probably polio. Ish.
• 4:56
  Speaker B: You think Maybe. Maybe.
• 4:57
  Speaker A: That's my guess.
• 4:58
  Speaker B: So he walks around with, like, a wooden crush. And the thing is, though, like, you would be like, oh, man, Tiny Tim.
• 5:03
  Speaker A: That's.
• 5:04
  Speaker B: That's sad, bro. Like, I'm so sorry, but not Tiny Tim. Tiny Tim is like, don't feel sorry for me. Don't feel sorry for me. Don't you. Like, he's like, I am a. I am just a bundle of joy and hope, and I love you all. Every one of you. I don't care how poor I am. I don't care how I limp. I don't give a fuck. I love you all. That's the energy Tiny Tim is bringing.
• 5:22
  Speaker A: Yes, I have his name. They are the Cratchits. Bob Cratchit works for Scrooge.
• 5:28
  Speaker B: So close.
• 5:29
  Speaker A: And Tiny Tim is his son. So Tiny Tim Cratchet continues.
• 5:32
  Speaker B: Okay, well, the thing is, Jennifer, he did work for Scrooge because, like, on Christmas Eve, Scrooge was like, sorry, Bob, ain't no more you take care of your family. Because he wanted the day off. He's like, this is Christmas Eve. This is like, the day I wanna be with my family. And Scrooge was like, bah, humbug, bitch. Nah, nah, you're not. Not here. You go home. You stay home. So Bob was like, fuck, I have to be with Tiny Tim in the crowd. Like, they will never forgive me. It's like the one night of the year that I wanna be with my family. So he goes home and he's like, hey, Ma Crotchet, I am out of a job. I am out of a job. Like the old man. Like, he has zero fucks to give. He's all rich and he's all angry, and he was like, crotchet, not Crotchet. Tomato, Tomato, Stick by crotchet. So get to the part where here I am. Here I am. I'm getting there. So then it's the night of Christmas Eve, and Crotchet's home with his family. And Scrooge, Ebenezer Scrooge goes to sleep, okay? And then all of a sudden, he goes. And he's like, hello? And he's like, it's me, Ebenezer. I'm the ghost of Marley. And he's like, oh, really, you old prick? Because you owe me money before you died, and I don't know where your will is. And he's like, you listen to me, Ebenezer Scrooge, because you're such a son of a bitch, you will be visited by Three additional ghosts tonight. Aha. So, Bo. And then he goes away, and there's, like, whole chains and everything rattling. And Scrooge is still like, dude, you owe me money. I don't know where your will is if you're gonna come back from the dead. That would have been a solid not to talk to me about some ghost stories. So Scrooge goes to sleep, and then there was a ghost that comes, and it is the Ghost of Christmas Past. And so Ghost of Christmas Past is like, hello, I'm the Ghost of Christmas Past. I'm gonna take you, Scrooge, throughout all your lonely life of Christmases. And Scrooge is like, whatever, this is totally a dream. I'm an old prick, but I'm gonna go with you because, like, what else am I doing tonight? So then you go through, like, a long line of traumatic events that happened to Scrooge on Christmas. And then you're like, oh, I get why he's such an old prick and he hates Christmas. Cause he never was able to enjoy it. So then the Ghost of Christmas Pass brings him back to his bed, and he's like, okay, you're gonna have two more ghosts coming up and meet up with you. Okay? So Scrooge is asleep, and then all of a sudden, the Ghost of Christmas Present comes up and is like, oh, my God. Let's go around and let's see what people in your life are doing for Christmas that you're not involved in. And so they go to his nephew's house, and, like, he can see them and know what's going on, but they can't see him. And so, like, the whole party's gathered around and be like, oh, where's your uncle? And then he's like, oh, my uncle's an old prick. Y'all know that. And they're like, yes, we do. Yes, we do. I swear to God, I don't know why you keep inviting him every year. He's such a bad. Oh, my God. And so Scrooge is hearing all of this, and then he goes to Tiny Tim's house in the Cratchit's house. And then everyone's like, oh, I'm so glad you're here, Daddy, but I'm so sorry we're gonna be poor forever. Cause Mr. Scrooge is such an old prick. And he's like, now, now, children, don't. And then Tiny Tim. Tiny Tim is like, I know Mr. Scrooge is mean and everything, but we should have comfort in our hearts for him and make him Feel better. Because, like, he's an old man and he doesn't have anything. And I'm Tiny Tim and I'm just like, really positive for no reason. Like, no reason at all. And so Scrooge hears us and he's like, oh, that Tiny Tim. That's kind of nice. So then he goes back home. And so the ghost is like, don't forget, everyone's talking shit about you. They're nice to you, but they're all talking shit. There's Hater Raid being flown then. Then he's like, don't forget there's going to be another ghost. The last ghost to visit you tonight. So Scrooge is like, I. So he's waiting. He's waiting. He's up, he's waiting. And the next ghost is like this phantom scary ghost.
• 9:28
  Speaker A: Scary as fuck ghost.
• 9:30
  Speaker B: Scary as fuck ghost.
• 9:31
  Speaker A: He doesn't even talk. That's how scary. He doesn't even have to talk.
• 9:35
  Speaker B: He looks like the Grim Reaper, like, on steroids, like, big and shit. And he doesn't talk. He's like.
• 9:41
  Speaker A: He's present.
• 9:42
  Speaker B: Mm. So he takes him to Christmas future and he.
• 9:48
  Speaker A: What does it look like?
• 9:49
  Speaker B: Oh, it's grim. He's. It's grim. The old man's rich and shit. Tiny Tim's dead. Then he. And then he ends up dying because he's an old prick and is. His heart can't take it. And his money. His money doesn't save him from death. He dies a miserable old prick. So then he's like. And again, the scariest fucking ghost just pointing at shit, points him back to his bedroom. And he's like, now, bitch, what are you going to do now? You know, do better. Now you know. No, do better. And so he doesn't even say that, though it's a lot of pointing. So he gets back into bed and then. This is my favorite part of the whole story. And I want you to help me with this. Okay? Are you ready?
• 10:26
  Speaker A: I think so. Go ahead.
• 10:28
  Speaker B: Okay. So he gets up the next day and he goes in the window and he opens up the window. He flings it open. And what happens?
• 10:36
  Speaker A: And he says to a boy on the street, hey, boy, what day is it? And the boy says, why, it's Christmas Day, sir.
• 10:45
  Speaker B: That's right. And he's like, is that big old goose still in the window down the street? And he's like, I bet you it is, sir. I bet you it is. No one has money for that big ass goose. And he's like. Throws money down at the Street. And he's like, you there, boy. Go get me that goose and take some extra money for yourself. And the boy's like, well, I was going to do things with my family, but because you're. You just threw money at me. I will do whatever you say. And runs and gets the goose. So then, then Scrooge goes to his nephew's house and is like, scrooge. He's like, scrooge, nephew's dog, I love you. I'm sorry I've been a prick. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And then, like, the nephew's like, are you having an episode? Like, are you having a stroke? Are you stroking out? Because, like, seriously, this isn't right. And he leaves his nephew all, like, confused and shit. And his nephew's wife was totally talking shit when the bell rang, when Scrooge was all like, I'm sorry I've been a prick. And she was like, oh, no, your uncle was such a son of a bitch. And then the door opens and it's his uncle. And then she's like, oh, sir, how nice to see you. And then he takes that big ass goose that he got from that little poor boy he threw the money at and he brought it to the Cratchit home.
• 11:51
  Speaker A: Yes, he did.
• 11:52
  Speaker B: And everyone was around the table like, oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness, what a Christmas banquet we'll have. Thank you, Mr. Scrooge. And everyone sat down to eat. And then someone picks up Tiny Tim and Tiny Tim says something like, merry Christmas and good wishes to you all. And that's where it ends.
• 12:09
  Speaker A: And closed curtains. That is the Jill Splain version. It's much greater detail than I was expecting, by the way.
• 12:17
  Speaker B: Well, I mean, it's important.
• 12:19
  Speaker A: There you have it, folks. Common Mystics version of the Jill Splained Christmas carol. Thank you. That was fun. And seen and seen. And since it came out, it's been done over and over and over and.
• 12:32
  Speaker B: Over again for so many.
• 12:33
  Speaker A: Yeah. So many iterations. Scrooged with. That's. Is that Bill Murray?
• 12:39
  Speaker B: That is Bill Murray.
• 12:40
  Speaker A: Yes, it is. Spirited, spirited.
• 12:43
  Speaker B: Did it in a way that, like, had a new twist on the old story that I really enjoyed. It elaborated on the story and the conditions itself, like, behind the scenes with the ghost.
• 12:51
  Speaker A: It's so funny. I know you like that. That movie. That's a newer one.
• 12:55
  Speaker B: It's a newer one. It was just like 2022, I think.
• 12:57
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:59
  Speaker B: And Octavia Spencer's in it. She's great. Will Ferrell's in it. He's a Christmas staple. The problem is it's only on Apple tv. And my Apple TV never works.
• 13:08
  Speaker A: Yeah, mine doesn't either. I canceled it.
• 13:10
  Speaker B: It's just a Christmas prayer. If I can watch that movie.
• 13:13
  Speaker A: So I think we. You came up with the idea, if I'm completely honest, of talking about why on earth is, like, Christmas ghosts a thing.
• 13:25
  Speaker B: Yeah. Because it's not just Dickens. There is a song that I heard that brings up scary stories of Christmas from long time ago.
• 13:32
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 13:32
  Speaker B: Right.
• 13:32
  Speaker A: It's Andy Williams 1963 holiday hit. It's the most wonderful time of the Year. We've all heard it.
• 13:38
  Speaker B: No, I was singing that just now.
• 13:40
  Speaker A: I know, I know.
• 13:42
  Speaker B: That wasn't Andy Williams. That was me. Do I sound that good? Oh, I'm sorry.
• 13:46
  Speaker A: I was confused. I thought there was a professional male singer on the other end of this.
• 13:50
  Speaker B: You let me meow it, you'll even be more impressed.
• 13:53
  Speaker A: Please don't. Okay, so the question that we had, that you had, that you posed was how did telling ghost stories, something that is now predominantly associated with the fall season and Halloween in the United States, end up being a quintessential Christmas tradition?
• 14:13
  Speaker B: That's not my exact thought because I'm not that thoughtful or that well spoken.
• 14:17
  Speaker A: You literally wrote that. I did not write that.
• 14:20
  Speaker B: Really?
• 14:20
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 14:21
  Speaker B: Oh, my God. I don't even know what's happening.
• 14:23
  Speaker A: You wrote that maybe you were having an episode of some sort.
• 14:26
  Speaker B: Yeah, it was like someone had my thinking cap.
• 14:29
  Speaker A: You were channeling Dickens.
• 14:32
  Speaker B: I always channel Dickens. Especially in the winter. On them cold nights.
• 14:40
  Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, so, you know, that's a really good question.
• 14:45
  Speaker B: And what did we answer?
• 14:48
  Speaker A: So, yeah, ghost stories seem completely out of place in the American holiday tradition, right?
• 14:55
  Speaker B: Yeah, but they are a staple, like, in the uk, obvious still today. You know, I don't know, but, I mean, obviously, because Dickens came and did that whole thing. Tell me about that.
• 15:06
  Speaker A: Okay, so let's break it down. We're going to go, like, back into history and, like, take a look at Christmas traditions in general as an overview. But then specifically when this tradition of telling Christmas ghost stories peaked and why. And it's fascinating. You're going to love it.
• 15:24
  Speaker B: You. Jennifer fied my outline. I'm so excited. Do it.
• 15:27
  Speaker A: I did. I did. So let's remember that Christmas time coincides with some of the darkest days of the year.
• 15:36
  Speaker B: Like, she means literally in the Northern Hemisphere, not figuratively.
• 15:42
  Speaker A: Correct. The winter solstice, of course, marks the darkest time of the year in the Northern Hemisphere. And it occurs around Christmas, actually, just a few days prior. I think it's often December 22nd that is the shortest day of the year.
• 15:58
  Speaker B: Isn't that the 20th?
• 16:01
  Speaker A: Okay, well, it's right around there.
• 16:02
  Speaker B: Right around there.
• 16:03
  Speaker A: Right around there. And I don't think it's a date. It shifts that, like, I think always the same day.
• 16:08
  Speaker B: I think that's true.
• 16:09
  Speaker A: And so, historically speaking, this time of year has been one of transformation and transition, because you're going from the days getting shorter and shorter and shorter and darker and darker in the Northern hemisphere to the winter solstice, and then the days start to get brighter and brighter again, Right?
• 16:31
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 16:32
  Speaker A: And so, for a really long time, the season inspired oral tales about eerie happenings across different cultures around the globe.
• 16:44
  Speaker B: That's cool. I can see that.
• 16:46
  Speaker A: Right. Because it's dark.
• 16:48
  Speaker B: It's dark. And, like, back in the day, there was no electricity. So you're, like, spooked out. Yeah. No, I get it.
• 16:53
  Speaker A: Totally. And so the tradition of telling ghost stories during these dark, cold days. Right. Right before Christmas time reached its peak of popularity in what's known as Victorian England. Do you have a question about that?
• 17:11
  Speaker B: You know what? I know what Victorian England is, but let me just sum it up. Victorian England is the time in space and place where Queen Victoria was on the throne in England, Right?
• 17:23
  Speaker A: That's exactly right.
• 17:25
  Speaker B: The Victorian age. Also, side note, Queen Victoria married her cousin, elder, and.
• 17:32
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 17:32
  Speaker B: And I think Liz and Prince Philip were cousins, too. They just keep doing it.
• 17:38
  Speaker A: Oh, it's different for royals. They can get away with it. And that's not creepy. I don't know why. I don't know why. But, like, it's. It's history, Jill. Look it up.
• 17:49
  Speaker B: I don't care how much money they have. That's still creepy.
• 17:52
  Speaker A: Well, Queen Victoria was on the throne from 1837 to 1901. And so you're right. That era of her reign is known as the Victorian Age. Now, Victorian England was a period of huge change and uncertainty, Jill, because of what was going on in England at the time.
• 18:16
  Speaker B: I swear, I thought the Victorian Age of England was, like, a huge time of, like, prosperity. I didn't know. It was, like, filled of, like, scary unknowingness. Tell me.
• 18:27
  Speaker A: Well, I think both. Here. Here are some of the factors. One was in the 19th century, during the time, there was rapid scientific advancements, specifically in science and technology. And so, yes, that brought prosperity because of industrialization, but it also brought, like, a challenge to traditional beliefs, because think about it.
• 18:55
  Speaker B: I know if you are all about.
• 18:58
  Speaker A: Like God, like God makes the sun, you know, go around the earth or whatever, like spirit and spiritualism.
• 19:06
  Speaker B: Same debate all over the country right now. Like, how can there be the book of Genesis and dinosaurs? I don't know.
• 19:14
  Speaker A: Right, exactly. So but for the, maybe the first time in history, you have technology being like, no, no, no. This is how this works. Do you know what I mean? And so, like, that's scary if you're someone who believes in the law of God and now you have the law of science and technology taking over and making these changes that can be very. To a society culturally.
• 19:45
  Speaker B: I think over the years, people like, had died for presenting scientific knowledge. You know what I mean? Off with his head.
• 19:54
  Speaker A: Well, like Galileo, for instance. That was hundreds, that was hundreds of years before this. But here you have. It's not just like ideas now. Those old ideas have been built upon over the years and are coming to fruition. So now we have, like, they're building the Titanic, you know what I'm saying?
• 20:12
  Speaker B: Like, right after that failure, spoiler alert. That don't go too well.
• 20:16
  Speaker A: But factories, urbanization, do you know what I mean? It all goes together. And people are starting to be curious more about the supernatural and how, how to reconcile new scientific discoveries with their existing spiritual beliefs. Like, that's the bottom line there. So there's a change happening with the industrialization.
• 20:38
  Speaker B: I'm sure that people are choosing different lifestyles, like where they're living as opposed to, like, wanting to, like, be into country. They would probably want to live near, like, where they're working. Because now they're not just working on the farm, they're working in the factories.
• 20:53
  Speaker A: Right? Exactly. When the Industrial revolution happens, specifically, it starts in England and then it spreads throughout the world. But when it starts in England, you have society moving from rural villages to city centers where there are factories. Right? So you have more and more people in the city centers and you. Then you have people getting richer right, from the industrialization. There are business owners who are flourishing, and then you have the poor people who are in the cities who are working in the factories. And this had never happened to this degree before. Again, this is scary. And part of this, this cultural shift is that you are, as a society, uplifting traditional ways of life and how society actually works, like, really fast over the course of a few generations.
• 21:52
  Speaker B: I like it. Do you see where it would be? Well, I can see how it would be scary. I do not like the level of wealth disparity, like the income levels that whole, like, have the extra, extra Rich, and then you have the extra, extra poor. I just don't feel like how those things should.
• 22:10
  Speaker A: Like it sounds like you are channeling Dickens once again. Always get there.
• 22:18
  Speaker B: Always. Jennifer.
• 22:20
  Speaker A: We'll get there. So in the past, like back in the days of your before industrialization, when people would go to work on the farm and then it got dark. And of course, during these dark days, what would they do? There was no. There was no Internet. They weren't sitting on their phone.
• 22:39
  Speaker B: There's no cell phone.
• 22:40
  Speaker A: There's no cell phone. There's no tv. There's not even a radio, for Pete's sake. What they did was they sat around the fire to keep warm and they told stories for hundreds and hundreds of years. They would sit around the fire around Christmas time and tell stories. Now, what kind of stories did people tell? Well, if you could read, maybe you read aloud literature. But most of the people couldn't read. And so they depended on oral stories, stories that they heard from their neighbors. And what kind of stories are people telling in the dark villages of rural England for hundreds of years? Well, a lot of them are telling ghost stories. Why are you nodding at me with that look on your face?
• 23:29
  Speaker B: I'm feeling you. You got. I was wrapped up in what you were saying. I was like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
• 23:35
  Speaker A: And again, the. These. This time coincided with the shortest day of the year, the winter solstice, which the notes say occurs around December 21st or 22nd in the northern hemisphere, depending. So the subject of oral stories around the fire were local ghost stories that I said that they heard from their neighbors. And not only that, because we're not talking about things that only rich people had access to. It was something everybody did. It was a tradition for all social classes, and you didn't need to have to read.
• 24:15
  Speaker B: True.
• 24:16
  Speaker A: Yeah. So not only did you not have to buy a book, you didn't have to be educated to enjoy them.
• 24:22
  Speaker B: And some of those books are very lofty. Even if you could read, you might not understand it.
• 24:27
  Speaker A: Right, right. The uneducated, for certain, maybe would not have picked up on the vocabulary and the proper. The proper verbiage in some of those. Those tomes, for sure, I relate yo. But then something happened in Victorian England.
• 24:45
  Speaker B: Tell me.
• 24:46
  Speaker A: And that was the printing press. It was inventing press. The printing press. It was invented in the early 1800s. And see, before the printing press, Jill, it was really, really time consuming and expensive to print a book. To make a book was like, ridiculous, I'm sure. And so only the super wealthy, had libraries and had access to books. But then suddenly the printing press made it so much quicker and more efficient, along with, of course, the factories. So now a printing press wasn't one guy with like these metal plates that he made. Now it was like this whole operation with MA and so they could make printing faster and more affordable. And then you have books and newspapers and pamphlets just all over the streets now as these people are coming into the urban centers to work in the factories. And so. Okay, you get it.
• 25:47
  Speaker B: Yes, now.
• 25:47
  Speaker A: So now there's printing on every corner.
• 25:50
  Speaker B: There's printing on every corner. So people are like, hey, I want to see what this is all about. And so they start learning how to read too, because they want the magic of what's is being captured in the stories, Right?
• 26:00
  Speaker A: Exactly. So it goes right along with laws about education. Because now books aren't just for the rich people who can afford an education now. You have texts available to everybody. And so it behooves the lower classes to learn to read as well.
• 26:17
  Speaker B: I love it.
• 26:17
  Speaker A: So you have more people reading, more printing happening, and they're all kind of congregating now in the city centers.
• 26:26
  Speaker B: I love it.
• 26:27
  Speaker A: So the Victorians, who of course this time honored tradition of telling ghost stories at Christmas time, now they're like, huh, we can print these ghost stories and we can sell them.
• 26:43
  Speaker B: Yes, yes, and yes.
• 26:44
  Speaker A: And everybody can buy them because printing is cheap.
• 26:50
  Speaker B: And it's Christmas, for Pete's sake. What a great Christmas gift.
• 26:55
  Speaker A: Right? Exactly. And so this period saw a boom in literature. And our guy, Charles Dickens, he was at the very beginning of it. He was a pioneer at the time. Remember I said the Victorian age started in 1837?
• 27:14
  Speaker B: You did.
• 27:15
  Speaker A: Dickens wrote A Christmas Carol in 1843, very early on in the age. So yeah, his novella, a novella, like a short, short novel. It captured the zeitgeist of the time, the feelings of the time perfectly and also influenced Christmas traditions for the future generations in England and in the entire Western world. In fact, the way that we celebrate Christmas today in English speaking countries comes mostly from Victorian era revival of the holiday. And a lot of that goes back to Dickens.
• 27:59
  Speaker B: Okay, the man can write, but do you think it's so good because it was the first or one of the first, or do you think it's just such a good story that captures like so many different facets and emotions of that time and space?
• 28:16
  Speaker A: I think both. I think if it wasn't as good, it wouldn't have been as popular and it wouldn't have made as big of an impact, but it really touches on some important, important, pivotal, pivotal things of the time. Like let's remember in the early 19th century, Christmas in Britain was more about countryside traditions, the rural traditions, and not so much in the city. So in the city still, they really weren't celebrating Christmas.
• 28:47
  Speaker B: Oh, that's sad.
• 28:48
  Speaker A: Yeah. And so Dickens was feeling nostalgic about. He's looking at all of these changes happening in his lifetime and he's like, wow, we have lost something. We have lost those beautiful traditions that we used to have on the countryside. So let's bring him back. And that's one of the things that, that brought him to writing this particular story. See, even with this modernization, he's like, Christmas should still be celebrated in the cities. You know what I mean? Bring back the nostalgia. Bring back the family gatherings.
• 29:26
  Speaker B: Yes. The food, the drink, the dancing.
• 29:29
  Speaker A: Yes. And the spirit of generosity. Now let's talk about his social causes, because there is. He's saying something about society too, isn't he?
• 29:38
  Speaker B: He shall. Is he? Shaw is.
• 29:39
  Speaker A: What do you think? What do you think his message is to society?
• 29:43
  Speaker B: Well, I think it's that we have an attitude of thinking people who have less money are less than and treating them as such. And then you also have an attitude that's kind of like shaming the rich, which I don't necessarily agree with, but I mean, this stereotypical like, archetype of Scrooge, like, for real, bro. Like, he. He nailed that one. Right.
• 30:09
  Speaker A: It's interesting you say that because Dickens was really careful not to marginalize his middle class and upper class readers because he wanted them to read it too, so he didn't want to insult them. Right. So he was very careful. He told this kind of melodrama about the decade disparity between the wealthy and the poor. And Dickens had a real problem with the poverty that was happening in the cities. He didn't like the poverty, particularly the effect it had on children, because he was seeing the children working in the factories, he was seeing the children on the streets. And he had a real problem with that. And of course, he writes that into the Tiny Tim character and how the children are impacted by poverty. But by making Scrooge a redeemable character, right, he goes through a transformation and he becomes what he always was, maybe inside, which is generous and charitable. And so all the good feelings, all of the hope, like, just because you're a stingy rich prick doesn't mean that you are. You have to be that change. Yeah. You can make a Change. And you should make a change. So that really hit everybody. Think about it. The poor people loved it. And the people with money, they loved it too. And I'll also say that in my research of this, he inspired a lot of real business leaders to close on Christmas and like, buy all their employees a turkey. Like, things like that were really happening because they read this story and were so touched.
• 31:47
  Speaker B: Things like that kind of happened today too. It's true. And it was because of. Oh, that's. I mean, the man was a prick. But hey, thanks.
• 31:55
  Speaker A: You mean Ebenezer Scrooge?
• 31:57
  Speaker B: No, you mean Dickens.
• 31:59
  Speaker A: Oh, okay, we're back to Dickens because of Caro in Illinois. Okay, I'm with you. So here's what happened. The original novella or pamphlet was called A Christmas Carol in Prose, being a Ghost Story of Christmas. And it was published on December 19, 1843. The first run of 6,000 copies sold out by Christmas Eve in six days.
• 32:25
  Speaker B: Wow.
• 32:26
  Speaker A: And so second and third editions were published before the first of the year and it continued to sell throughout 1844.
• 32:38
  Speaker B: That's insane.
• 32:40
  Speaker A: And he wrote several follow up Christmas novellas, although none of them really reached the peak of A Christmas Carol. And then he began collecting and publishing Christmas ghost stories from other authors in magazines that he edited, a trend that gained significant traction that still used today. So other publishers, other Victorian authors, they were like, there is a market for this. And so that's how he started something. So other Victorian authors followed suit, writing ghost stories and supernatural themed pieces that would be ready for publication just in time for Christmas and the gift giving season.
• 33:26
  Speaker B: It like literally is our. Like, this is how we celebrate Christmas every single year in so many ways, it's crazy.
• 33:34
  Speaker A: What do you mean? Telling ghost stories or just. Oh, you mean the commercialism, marketing.
• 33:40
  Speaker B: Like, can you imagine Christmas 1836? You know what I mean? Like, holy poop, what a difference.
• 33:46
  Speaker A: Right? And that's another good point. It's not only charity that he highlights, but that gift giving generosity that, that's influential in terms of commercialism. So it's, it's interesting that he also unintentionally maybe had a role in commercializing Christmas as well.
• 34:06
  Speaker B: Right, and marketing Christmas.
• 34:09
  Speaker A: Exactly. So again, the area of industrialization not only provided the means to distribute these spooky Christmas stories, but also heightened interest in the genre. The rise of industrialization, advancements in science, and impending decline of Victorian Britain as a superpower weighed on people's minds. So towards the end of the Victorian era, you see that the great empire that was Britain The United Kingdom starts to kind of tighten its belt a little. And that, of course, adds more to that darkness in terms of theme. And later on, Jill, that's when we have, like, all of the Gothic literature coming out, like Bram Stoker. Do you know what I mean? And, like, all of that starts to happen later in the Victorian period as well. Love, love, love.
• 35:04
  Speaker B: Well, so a Christmas Carol, regarded as a holiday ghost story, has become culturally a phenomenon, like, throughout the world, I would say, especially.
• 35:17
  Speaker A: Especially the Western world.
• 35:18
  Speaker B: Right. Merry Christmas. Phrases like, we talked about. Bahamga, Ebenezer Scrooge, if someone's bringing a scrooge.
• 35:26
  Speaker A: But even Merry Christmas, like, he. Yeah, he wasn't the first to use it, but he used it in his story. And that's when it gained traction. And now we don't say Happy Christmas, we say Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas.
• 35:38
  Speaker B: Oh, my.
• 35:38
  Speaker A: Because it.
• 35:38
  Speaker B: Dickens.
• 35:39
  Speaker A: I know. He just doesn't stop. You stop. You Dickens.
• 35:42
  Speaker B: You stop. So, question. Dickens did a lot for our Christmas. And I know I'm being selfish right now, but, like, why don't we stick with the Christmas ghost stories more throughout the holidays?
• 35:54
  Speaker A: So in America, yeah, there's a lot.
• 35:56
  Speaker B: Of bad Hallmark holiday movies being made out there, which we will talk on the detours about. But, like, if we just leaned into the creepiness of Christmas, it could have been a lot cooler.
• 36:05
  Speaker A: I was thinking the same thing, and so I was like, why did it not catch on in America? Because it never caught on in America.
• 36:15
  Speaker B: Not the way it should have.
• 36:18
  Speaker A: So you still think we should be telling spooky ghost stories at Christmas time?
• 36:21
  Speaker B: I find it fun to say spooky.
• 36:25
  Speaker A: Ghost stories all year round, anytime. That's a good point. So Americans had completely different attitudes towards magic and superstition and the supernatural. And there was historically kind of a resistance to bring that in. Now, let's remember that one of the first major groups to settle in America were the damned Puritans.
• 36:57
  Speaker B: Mm.
• 36:58
  Speaker A: Damn Puritans.
• 37:00
  Speaker B: You know, the work ethic. Too much, man. Yeah, too much. Well, I mean, I respect the Puritans for their journey and their hard work, but they were such a killjoy. Like, such a killjoy. Like. Like everyday, Church day, every day, work day. Let's kill this one here.
• 37:22
  Speaker A: Do you know how much vacation time they get in Europe and Australia?
• 37:28
  Speaker B: Please don't make me angry right now.
• 37:30
  Speaker A: So many weeks. So many weeks of time off in Europe and Australia. I don't know about Asia, I don't know how it works there, but in America, we get two weeks per Year, pretty much. Unless you're a teacher and you get the summers off. That's it.
• 37:44
  Speaker B: Well, I have to say, my sister is a teacher and works in the educational field, and they be encroaching on some shit when it comes to her free time. Not even lying. It's like, God damn.
• 37:55
  Speaker A: So we can blame the Puritans for that. Stupid Puritans. But the other thing is that they. The Puritans were very restrained when it came to Christmas. Like, they weren't big on celebrating, period. But they didn't do it up for Christmas time. And it was more about, like, religious observance than festivities. Right. So we got that problem. The other thing to remember is, so the Europeans that were coming to America were looking for a different life. The ones who stayed in England, they were feeling nostalgic for the way things used to be. But the ones who left and came to America, they were done with the way things used to be. They were over it. They were creating new traditions, and they.
• 38:50
  Speaker B: Were trying to acclimate into American society even though it was boring as hell and rigid.
• 38:57
  Speaker A: Right. But the other thing that they were doing is kind of leaving behind, well, religious. Let's say religious is the right word. Leaving behind the religious and coming for more secular ways of thinking. Because a lot of them who came here were being persecuted for. For religious reason. Right. And so they were. They. That was another thing they were kind of leaving behind. But Americans in the 1800s were not nostalgic for the European days of yore. Okay. The last thing is that something happened in the 18th and 19th centuries in the United States, and that was you had these waves of Irish and Scottish coming over, particularly the Irish, in the 1800s. Now, the Irish brought with them Celtic traditions, including Samhain, which is the roots of Halloween. And so I think it's so fascinating that culturally, they started that in America, they brought it. And that was a cultural phenomenon that happened. Whereas in Britain, the Irish weren't cultural leaders.
• 40:15
  Speaker B: Mmm.
• 40:17
  Speaker A: See what I'm saying?
• 40:19
  Speaker B: I do see what you're saying. Interesting.
• 40:22
  Speaker A: So Halloween. Halloween became the time that in America, we tell the spooky ghost stories, and we, you know, have our traditions around that Samhain time, when the veil is thin and the spirits can pass through. And so when Christmas comes around, it's like, been there, done that. Now we're on to, like, good cheer.
• 40:43
  Speaker B: Wow.
• 40:44
  Speaker A: Makes sense.
• 40:45
  Speaker B: It does make sense. Do you love it? I love knowing it. It's fascinating to think about. It was a good question we posed. So examples of Supernatural Christmas traditions from around the world. Because they do have, in other places really cool things happening that we should be doing.
• 41:04
  Speaker A: Okay, gotcha. It wasn't just England.
• 41:07
  Speaker B: No, no. Around the world has cool shit. We need to do it in America and do some cool shit and stop being so boring. Tell me about it.
• 41:13
  Speaker A: Okay, so in Iceland. You know, they're crazy in Iceland. And I say that in the best way.
• 41:18
  Speaker B: Aren't they hot? Don't we have a lot of hot actors from Iceland?
• 41:23
  Speaker A: I don't know. I think we need to look into this.
• 41:25
  Speaker B: Isn't the Scar Zar family from Iceland Sarsgaard? Yeah. Am I?
• 41:31
  Speaker A: No, I think they're Scandinavian.
• 41:34
  Speaker B: Oh. Either if.
• 41:35
  Speaker A: Okay, well, we'll have to look that up. I said they're kind of crazy in Iceland because I shouldn't say they're kind of crazy. I love that, like 50 of Icelanders believe in like fairies and elves and things, which is so cool. I know. It's amazing. They also have a sort of Christmas supernatural tradition.
• 41:58
  Speaker B: Tell me about it.
• 41:59
  Speaker A: Includes something called Yule lads. In the 13 nights leading up to Christmas, Icelandic homes are visited by the 13 Yule lads, who are whimsical figures from Nordic folklore.
• 42:19
  Speaker B: I think that's kind of cool. It's describing elves to me.
• 42:24
  Speaker A: Beginning on December 12, they descend one by one from the mountains. And according to the legend, the Yule Lads are sons of a troll. And it's like they have a more sinister origin, but they're so. They can be like mischievous, but they're also gift givers. So it's. It's. It's complicated.
• 42:45
  Speaker B: In Iceland, I mean, there's. They are like mischievous, but they're sweet too. They're like, you know, like kind of naughty Keebler elves.
• 42:54
  Speaker A: Exactly, exactly.
• 42:55
  Speaker B: Got it, got it.
• 42:55
  Speaker A: Okay, so that's Iceland.
• 42:58
  Speaker B: Tell me about Scandinavia.
• 43:00
  Speaker A: Okay. In Sweden, Norway and Denmark, there are mythical creatures called the Tom D. I'm probably saying this wrong. Tomdi and Nisa. Tomte. I'm going to spell it for those of you who want to look this up on your own. Tomte T O M T E in Sweden. And I'm saying Nissa N I S S E Mythical creatures. And they're often depicted as small gnome, like beings associated with winter. And Christmas gnomes are really big right now. I don't like gnomes get so big like Christmas gnomes. Like, you see them everywhere and people are putting them on wreaths and making them.
• 43:50
  Speaker B: They're cute.
• 43:51
  Speaker A: It's not me, but they're cute.
• 43:53
  Speaker B: Tell Everyone about the gnome that we had for years.
• 43:59
  Speaker A: No.
• 43:59
  Speaker B: You join us on detours and we're going to tell you stories about the gnome.
• 44:05
  Speaker A: It wasn't that we scared gnome.
• 44:07
  Speaker B: No, but it was a gnome.
• 44:08
  Speaker A: It was a gnome and a very unfortunate gnome. So the Tomty and the Nissa, please, please forgive my pronunciation, are typically described as small elderly men with long beards, wearing traditional farmers clothing, like a little cone hat or maybe a knit hat, and wearing usually red or a bright color. They, they sound exactly like gnomes.
• 44:37
  Speaker B: Like they. I mean, they're wearing primary bright colors. They have cone like cats. I mean, it's a gnome.
• 44:45
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, for sure. And these creatures are considered to be like guardians of the homestead and they protect the farm and the people who live there from misfortune. And they do expect, by the way, offerings like a bowl of porridge with butter, especially on Christmas Eve.
• 45:05
  Speaker B: Mmm. That's. That is what my dog expects from me every day. Porridge with porridge with butter.
• 45:12
  Speaker A: You feed your beagle porridge with butter?
• 45:15
  Speaker B: Any. My beagle will eat anything.
• 45:17
  Speaker A: He would eat.
• 45:17
  Speaker B: Put it in he. He will eat it.
• 45:19
  Speaker A: So over time, the Tomti and the Nisa, these gnomes have become associated with Christmas traditions in Scandinavia. And in fact, Nisa is derived from the name Nils, which is Scandinavian for Nicholas.
• 45:34
  Speaker B: Oh my goodness.
• 45:35
  Speaker A: As in St. Nicholas. And they're similar to the concept of Santa Claus delivering gifts to children during the holiday season.
• 45:42
  Speaker B: Oh, Scandinavia. I love it.
• 45:45
  Speaker A: Something creepy out of Italy, though.
• 45:47
  Speaker B: Oh, I like creepy.
• 45:49
  Speaker A: How about the Christmas witch? Have you ever heard of La Befana?
• 45:55
  Speaker B: No, but I've been called a Christmas witch.
• 45:57
  Speaker A: Oh. La Befana is typically depicted as an old woman resembling a traditional witch with a broomstick, a shawl and soot covered face because guess what? She climbs down chimneys.
• 46:12
  Speaker B: Get it, girl? What you getting? What you getting?
• 46:14
  Speaker A: I love it. Just like Santy Claus. During the 12 days of Christmas, Labana traverses the land throughout Italy, rewarding the good children and punishing the naughty, but also accepting offerings just like Santa accepts milk and cookies. Mm, I love this.
• 46:37
  Speaker B: And you give them carrots for the reindeer.
• 46:41
  Speaker A: On the night of January 5th, La Befana visits homes throughout Italy, delivering the gifts to children. I wonder if she brings the gifts down the chimney. She must, right?
• 46:51
  Speaker B: January 5th, St. Nick's the Feast of St. Nicholas.
• 46:54
  Speaker A: I do not know.
• 46:56
  Speaker B: I believe so.
• 46:58
  Speaker A: I thought it was in early December.
• 47:00
  Speaker B: December 5th is pretty early.
• 47:02
  Speaker A: I said, oh, January.
• 47:05
  Speaker B: Oh, so January. I'm a month off. But I will say that's Very close to the Feast of the Three Kings.
• 47:12
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 47:12
  Speaker B: It is of January.
• 47:14
  Speaker A: Yes. Correct, correct. And of course, the good children, they get sweets and candies and small gifts, and any who have not been good get coal or dark candy. Ooh.
• 47:27
  Speaker B: I'm thinking, like, black, black, black licorice. Yeah. Black jelly beans are disgusting.
• 47:33
  Speaker A: I love the black jelly beans. They're the only ones I like.
• 47:37
  Speaker B: You are lying right now.
• 47:38
  Speaker A: No, I'm not.
• 47:40
  Speaker B: The only way I will eat that trash is if they are in a capsule of good and plenty.
• 47:46
  Speaker A: I love them. It's like, sweet, but bitter, but nasty, but sweet. I think it's good. And then, according to the most popular version of the legend, the three wise men stopped at La Befana's house on their way to visit Jesus. And they invited her to come too.
• 48:09
  Speaker B: Did she go? She didn't.
• 48:11
  Speaker A: She said she was too busy with housework.
• 48:13
  Speaker B: She just doesn't like kids.
• 48:15
  Speaker A: But later, she regretted her decision and set out to find the Christ child herself, bringing gifts for him. She never found him, so she continues to search for him every year.
• 48:27
  Speaker B: I don't want to break the bad news to her.
• 48:32
  Speaker A: Again. Labana is still a cherished part of Italian Christmas traditions, symbolizing the end of the holiday season. How do you like that?
• 48:41
  Speaker B: I like it. Can you give me more Christmas stories from England, though? I think they're like the OG of Christmas scary stories.
• 48:49
  Speaker A: I think we have a couple that I can go over right now. Just. I'm just gonna, like, footnote it or not footnote it.
• 48:57
  Speaker B: Yeah. Jennifer Clifford.
• 49:00
  Speaker A: Jennifer Splain. Jen Splain. Well, one is the legend of the mistletoe bride.
• 49:08
  Speaker B: Ooh.
• 49:11
  Speaker A: The ghost of Lord Lovell's bride is a well known legend associated with Bramshill House, a historic mansion in Hampshire, England. Now, the details of the story may have evolved over the years, but the original narrative is believed to stem from the tragic real life demise of Lord Lovell's bride at Bramshill House in Hampshire, England. You ready for the story?
• 49:41
  Speaker B: Mm.
• 49:42
  Speaker A: According to the legend, Lord Lovell and his fiance were going to marry right around Christmas time. And so there was going to be a big party and family members came to the house from both sides.
• 49:58
  Speaker B: And I mean, they're coming to town anyway, so why not just do the wedding when they're in town?
• 50:03
  Speaker A: Like, exactly at Christmas? Have a big bash. And this estate was an opulent estate. Huge mansion, opulent estate, perfect place for a wedding. And while adorning the house with mistletoe, the families devised a playful wedding game to Pass the time.
• 50:27
  Speaker B: Oh.
• 50:28
  Speaker A: Here were the rules. Lord Lavelle's young bride was supposed to hide somewhere within the sprawling mansion while the groomsmen went on a quest to find her. Basically hide and go seek. The first to locate her would earn the title of the winner and get to kiss her under the mistletoe.
• 50:54
  Speaker B: It's actually more Ghost in the graveyard than Kite and Go See because everyone hides in hide and go seek and one person tries to find them all. Oh, that's a good point. Yeah. And goes in the graveyard. You have the one hiding and everyone's searching for the height.
• 51:07
  Speaker A: Okay, I like it. Do you kiss the person at the end of Ghost in the Graveyard?
• 51:13
  Speaker B: No, we never did.
• 51:14
  Speaker A: Not usually we never did.
• 51:15
  Speaker B: No, we never did. Okay, I'm all. But you know what? Whenever I had a hide in playing any game I held yourself pee. I always had a pee. So I wasn't trying to get attention, you know what I mean?
• 51:25
  Speaker A: I do, I do. Well, what began as a light hearted game quickly soured as the minutes turned into hours and they could not find the bride. Astonishingly, months passed by then years and no one knew anything about where or how she disappeared. Heartbroken, Lovell was ultimately compelled to move on with his life because he could never find his bride. It was a good ass hiding place.
• 52:02
  Speaker B: Well, I like that. Or they were like dumb as fuck. Like how do you like honestly, how big was this mansion? He did, he even tried looking for her. Or maybe he really didn't like her and he was like, you hide and we'll find you. Wink wink. Like no one tried.
• 52:17
  Speaker A: She must have had some kind of medical event not to come out and be like all right, I'm done hiding. You know what I mean?
• 52:22
  Speaker B: Yeah, no kidding. Like how committed to the game are you? Also, wouldn't there be a stench somewhere on the estate?
• 52:28
  Speaker A: You'd think, you'd think like if there's.
• 52:30
  Speaker B: A mouse in your house you like are like on high alert.
• 52:33
  Speaker A: For real. 50 years go by. 50. Lavelle's grandchildren now live in the estate. And while playing a game of hide and seek, they discovered in a hidden closet in an upstairs room in an old wooden chest sealed shut was the bride to be trapped inside. Basically mummified. Wow. Wow. Who kissed her? What?
• 53:15
  Speaker B: Did anyone kiss her? Who won?
• 53:18
  Speaker A: I don't know. Who had one of the grandkids? So the spirit of the bride is said to roam Bramshill House during Christmas, wandering the halls at night and calling out to someone, anyone to find her. Yet every year as the holiday season fades, so too, does any trace of the mistletoe bride.
• 53:46
  Speaker B: She went too big on that hiding space in a hidden room with the hidden closet and a hidden wooden thing that won't open. It was like, why? Like, wow.
• 53:55
  Speaker A: Yeah. Wow.
• 53:56
  Speaker B: Like, it's just a game, Chicky.
• 53:59
  Speaker A: I mean, I say we end there. I mean, that's a really good one. What a great example of a Christmas. Yeah, I like it. Yeah.
• 54:09
  Speaker B: Do you have any thoughts about the mistletoe bride? Other than that she went too big?
• 54:14
  Speaker A: She went too big. I. I'm thinking because she was in a chest, I'm thinking maybe she accidentally locked herself in it. That would make sense. That would make sense.
• 54:24
  Speaker B: Yeah. That's really dumb. So really dumb.
• 54:28
  Speaker A: I was thinking, on Detours, people, meet us on detours. And what are we going to talk about? I have to write this down because you said a couple things and I never remember.
• 54:36
  Speaker B: Okay, so we're gonna talk about our gnome that we shared.
• 54:40
  Speaker A: Oh, okay.
• 54:42
  Speaker B: That's number one.
• 54:42
  Speaker A: But it wasn't a Christmas gnome disclaimer.
• 54:46
  Speaker B: Okay, it's not a Christmas gnome, but it is a gnome that we shared.
• 54:48
  Speaker A: We're gonna talk about the gnome. What else?
• 54:50
  Speaker B: And then we're gonna talk about shitty holiday movies. Okay.
• 54:56
  Speaker A: Really?
• 54:57
  Speaker B: I think so. I think we should marry, screw, kill some of these movies. Or at least talk about which ones we want and which ones we don't want. Which ones are Christmas, which ones aren't. Like, I just re. Watched Die Hard, you know, I owe your husband and his mother an apology. That is a Christmas movie.
• 55:18
  Speaker A: Really.
• 55:19
  Speaker B: It really is.
• 55:22
  Speaker A: All right, I'll let you lead that discussion.
• 55:24
  Speaker B: Well, I. I want you to tell me. Okay, I'll give you an example. One of my musts, like, have to watch every year. Not because it's good, but just because it's what I watch every year.
• 55:37
  Speaker A: What is it?
• 55:37
  Speaker B: Literally, I had on the TV on Saturday night, and Chad walked in and was like, do we have to.
• 55:43
  Speaker A: So much buildup. So much buildup. What is it?
• 55:45
  Speaker B: Do we just have to keep going? You know what it is? It is Santa Claus, the movie from 1984.
• 55:51
  Speaker A: I believe it's Dudley Moore.
• 55:53
  Speaker B: Yeah, it is.
• 55:54
  Speaker A: Patch. Patch. You know, I've never seen that. Or if I have, I've blocked it out.
• 56:01
  Speaker B: You entirely blocked it out. Because I remember making you put it on for me.
• 56:06
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 56:07
  Speaker B: Maybe just walked out of the room like she was quite known.
• 56:09
  Speaker A: Probably.
• 56:10
  Speaker B: Yeah, probably. It's terrible. It's terrible. It's a terrible movie. I'm mad at it every time I watch it.
• 56:16
  Speaker A: But I know why you want to watch. Why you want to talk about shitty holiday movies. Like, they just make me angry. I want to talk about the good ones, the ones that make me cry every time.
• 56:25
  Speaker B: Okay, can we have this conversation on Detours? Because I like the energy you're bringing. This is the kind of energy we bring to the Detours.
• 56:35
  Speaker A: Okay. All right. I'm here for it.
• 56:37
  Speaker B: Okay. Also, this is our Christmas holiday episode.
• 56:42
  Speaker A: Please don't meow.
• 56:44
  Speaker B: I'm not gonna meow. But now I have to meow because you asked me not to meow when I wasn't even going to meow.
• 56:52
  Speaker A: God. This is our Christmas episode. Continue.
• 56:55
  Speaker B: Yeah. And I noticed a husband of one of our listeners contacted us today, and I directed him to our Patreon page, and I let him know that his wife, who is a fan of ours, would probably Enjoy a Tier 4 membership for the holidays. Oh, so you can go to patreon.com common mystics podcast and give the gift of us rambling all next year. All next year.
• 57:22
  Speaker A: I think that is probably the equivalent of coal in the stocking, though.
• 57:26
  Speaker B: You know what? You don't know what people. You don't know what they want to give. I think that is a very thoughtful present. And either. You don't even have to be at a tier four. You can just donate in someone's name. Just be like, you know what, Uncle Fred, here's. Here's a three dollar membership for my Uncle Fred. You know, just do it.
• 57:49
  Speaker A: I do. We're trying to go. I. I know where you're going with this.
• 57:51
  Speaker B: I love trying to survive here, guys. We're trying to make it. We try and we tried real hard.
• 57:58
  Speaker A: We've said it before, we'll say it again. Our. We love all our listeners. We love and appreciate all our listeners. It is our patrons on Patreon who keep this thing going any level.
• 58:10
  Speaker B: But we have a lot of fun with our tier four. They're family now. They're really family now.
• 58:16
  Speaker A: Are you going to have them all over for Christmas?
• 58:19
  Speaker B: I would if you would let me. But you're afraid I'm going to get drunk and dry hump one of them. So no good reason for that, you ask. I'm just keeping it real.
• 58:30
  Speaker A: Just.
• 58:31
  Speaker B: Just keeping it real.
• 58:33
  Speaker A: Wow. I cannot believe you just said that to the world.
• 58:37
  Speaker B: This is why they love us, because we're real people.
• 58:41
  Speaker A: All right. Anything else?
• 58:43
  Speaker B: Yeah, I was going to say I love you. Merry Christmas. Thank you guys so much for listening and supporting us. We really appreciate you and it's really the reason why we keep this going is just because you guys want it. Literally. So thank you so much for making us feel loved and needed in all corners of this world. So thank you. Thank you, thank you.
• 59:03
  Speaker A: Aw. Thank you so much. We're blessed to have you listening and have a wonderful holiday season.
• 59:09
  Speaker B: Can we meow now?
• 59:10
  Speaker A: No, no. Meow. Say goodbye. Say goodbye.
• 59:14
  Speaker B: Meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow. Jennifer, just do one. Just meow. One. Just one.
• 59:23
  Speaker A: Bye, Jill. Love you.
• 59:24
  Speaker B: It's the holidays.
• 59:25
  Speaker A: It's the holidays. I'm hanging up now.
• 59:27
  Speaker B: Don't do it. Don't do it.
• 59:28
  Speaker A: Hang up.
• 59:29
  Speaker B: Jennifer.
• 59:30
  Speaker A: Seriously, Jill, hang up.
• 59:32
  Speaker B: Just one.
• 59:33
  Speaker A: Just.
• 59:33
  Speaker B: You are so good at it. Just do one holiday, like bar and I'll be done with it. For our listeners, Jennifer. Just one. Pick whatever, any song, and I'll guess it.
• 59:44
  Speaker A: Oh, my God.
• 59:45
  Speaker B: Real quick, we're already over an hour. Come on. Come on, Jen. Come on.
• 59:51
  Speaker A: Meow, meow, meow. I love it. Silent. Thank you so much. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Bye, everybody.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker B: Bye. This has been a common Mystics Media Production editing done by Yokai Audio, Kalamazoo, Michigan.