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Unlucky Numbers Across The Globe -- And Why They Are Ridiculous · Ridiculous History

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  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
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  Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so
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  Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Let's hear it for our own
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  Speaker 1: lucky number. Our super producer, mister Max Williams.
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  Speaker 2: M Max Lucky Number, Sleven Williams.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're no Brown. I am Ben Dollan in
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  Speaker 1: these parts. Yeah, and our pal Max is very big
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  Speaker 1: into fantasy football, so much so that Max, you told
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  Speaker 1: Noel and yours truly that your group chat text messages
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  Speaker 1: would be blowing up.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean yeah, No. I always tell people am like, hey,
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  Speaker 3: if you have something important to send me during the
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  Speaker 3: football season, do not text that to me, which is
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  Speaker 3: the inverse what most people say. But it's like because
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  Speaker 3: if you said it to me, text it just gets
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  Speaker 3: into the giant pile of fantasy football stuff. By the way,
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  Speaker 3: my favorite number forty one.
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  Speaker 1: And that's where we're going with this. This is an
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  Speaker 1: episode all about numbers. So Noel Max has a favorite
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  Speaker 1: lucky number forty one or just a favorite number for
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  Speaker 1: his own personal mythology. Do you find yourself possessing a
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  Speaker 1: personal favorite lucky or unlucky number?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, I do, and it's nonsense. I don't remember when
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  Speaker 4: I was a young lad writing bad poetry that was
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  Speaker 4: very esoteric and you know, pretentious.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know.
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  Speaker 4: I've I got focused on this number, eight hundred and
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  Speaker 4: forty five because I would do these sort of like
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  Speaker 4: cut up experiments where I would just like take words
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  Speaker 4: from random pages that I would find friends' houses. And
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  Speaker 4: I think there was like a crossword or something where
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  Speaker 4: someone had written the number and the margins, and of course,
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  Speaker 4: you know, with what's the word baiter Mainhoff situation. I
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  Speaker 4: just see the number everywhere, and it's in all my passwords,
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  Speaker 4: and I'm kidding, it's not. It's in a handful of
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  Speaker 4: my usernames though, but yeah, it's irrelevant. It's just my
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  Speaker 4: mind glommed onto that number for some reason.
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  Speaker 1: And there's nothing wrong with that now, of course, fellow
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  Speaker 1: ridiculous historians, I am not going to reveal my own
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  Speaker 1: personal mythology of lucky or unlucky numbers. But for a
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  Speaker 1: lot of folks, just like you were saying, Noel, this
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  Speaker 1: can be a whimsical icebreaker type of question. But for
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  Speaker 1: other people, as we're gonna find, this is very serious,
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  Speaker 1: deadly serious. Habitual lottery players often have lucky numbers, as
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  Speaker 1: do other gamblers, even professional athletes.
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  Speaker 2: Right, how you choose.
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  Speaker 1: Your jersey number, business tycoons, how you close the deal?
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  Speaker 1: This concept goes across every imaginable demographic. Interesting fun fact
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  Speaker 1: speaking to personal preference. Stephen King, the lionized author of
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  Speaker 1: American literature, he is obsessed with the number nineteen, and
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  Speaker 1: he will talk about it at length.
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  Speaker 2: What's the hotel room from the Shining.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, oh, from the Shining, not from the in the
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  Speaker 1: first story?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I think in the book it's three seventeen,
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  Speaker 4: and then in the Kubrick film he changes the number.
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  Speaker 4: But then no, maybe it's two seventeen. Anyway, it's something
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  Speaker 4: like that. It's different in the book in the number.
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  Speaker 4: But then in the new Zach Kreeger horror film that's
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  Speaker 4: quite good weapons he uses that number that he claims
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  Speaker 4: and interviews he just must have internalized it.
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  Speaker 2: It wasn't meant to be. But again, it's funny how
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  Speaker 2: we glom onto these kind of numbers. Yeah, exactly.
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  Speaker 1: You know, some special numbers are again a matter of
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  Speaker 1: personal preference. Others can be cultural events, you know, like
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  Speaker 1: part of Asia's deep belief in the good vibes of
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  Speaker 1: the number eight, and we see this similar pattern with
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  Speaker 1: unlucky numbers. Assigning good or bad fortune to numbers. It's
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  Speaker 1: a time honored human hobby and it can seem like
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  Speaker 1: a relic of superstition from ages gone, but there's still
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  Speaker 1: a lot of legacy to this. There's this quasi spiritual
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  Speaker 1: belief that some numbers are better or worse than others.
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  Speaker 2: For sure.
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  Speaker 4: I mean, I know we're going to get into a
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  Speaker 4: lot of this, but I'm always reminded of the very
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  Speaker 4: cool early Darren Aaronofski movie Pie that talks about this
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  Speaker 4: kind of cabal of Hasidic Jewish mystics that practice the
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  Speaker 4: numerology of Kabbala, where in certain numbers are assigned to
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  Speaker 4: certain letters in the Hebrew alphabet used to kind of
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  Speaker 4: uncover these hidden secrets and connections with the universe. And
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  Speaker 4: in the film it takes a real dark turn, but
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  Speaker 4: it's real cool.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, especially with the high dollar corporate interests that play
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  Speaker 1: another antagonistic role in that amazing film. We are fun
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  Speaker 1: at parties. Let's start exploring lucky and unlucky numbers by
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  Speaker 1: doing what we'll call a hilariously brief history of numbers one, two,
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  Speaker 1: three to the four?
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  Speaker 2: How do we get there? How do we like?
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  Speaker 1: How do we do numbers?
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  Speaker 4: Well, they have to excuse me because Snoop Doggy Dog
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  Speaker 4: and Doctor Dre are at the door. I'll be right back. No,
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  Speaker 4: I'm just kidding. Yeah, I don't know, man, it's interesting.
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  Speaker 4: I thought when you said you were going to do
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  Speaker 4: a history of numbers, I thought you were just going
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  Speaker 4: to name all the numbers and that would have made
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  Speaker 4: for very interesting content. And I was here for it.
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  Speaker 4: And thanks Ben for this excellent research brief. I know
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  Speaker 4: this is a pet subject for you, and I think
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  Speaker 4: all of the ridiculous historians out there are going to
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  Speaker 4: enjoy it too.
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  Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit about numbers.
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  Speaker 4: So, despite the fact that humans are pretty bad at
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  Speaker 4: agreeing with one another on most things, most of modern
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  Speaker 4: civilization has agreed on not only the concept of numbers,
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  Speaker 4: but also a universal ish way of communicating them in
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  Speaker 4: written form. Right.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, wherever you go nowadays, with a few exceptions,
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  Speaker 1: the people you run into, even if you don't speak
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  Speaker 1: the same language, they are going to use the same
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  Speaker 1: number system zero, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine,
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  Speaker 1: zero again repeated to infinity. No, that's kind of a
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  Speaker 1: success story, is it not.
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  Speaker 2: I think it is.
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  Speaker 4: I mean, we certainly can't agree on an alphabet, we
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  Speaker 4: certainly can't agree on a language. And I've always wondered that,
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  Speaker 4: you know, why is it the numbers are so universal?
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  Speaker 4: I guess because there exist in the natural world observable,
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  Speaker 4: kind of quantifiable things that these numbers represent. So it
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  Speaker 4: sort of makes sense that, you know, we would need
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  Speaker 4: to kind of have a standard for this, right, I mean,
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  Speaker 4: have you ever maybe you could say it or how
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  Speaker 4: you see it? Ben, What do you think that reason
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  Speaker 4: is for the universality of a number system?
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  Speaker 1: It's crazy, man. I think you're on I think you're
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  Speaker 1: on the money with the idea of universal observance. Right,
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  Speaker 1: people have different words for the concept of gravity, but
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  Speaker 1: everyone acknowledges gravity exists.
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  Speaker 2: There's no.
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  Speaker 1: Uncontacted commune you could go to that doesn't understand things
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  Speaker 1: fall down when you throw them into the sky. But
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  Speaker 1: the weird thing is, back in the day, all these
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  Speaker 1: disparate human communities, language groups like you described, empires, civilizations,
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  Speaker 1: they had their own written version of numbers. What you're
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  Speaker 1: using today folks is called the Arabic neural system, and
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  Speaker 1: it's a misnomer because it's from an ancient Indian numerical
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  Speaker 1: system and it spread via trade. It was the easiest
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  Speaker 1: way to talk math, to talk finance, to talk money,
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  Speaker 1: and then the Arabic Boffins adapted this and it propagated
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  Speaker 1: throughout the Islamic world for sure.
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  Speaker 4: And we can't not mention the Persian mathematician our Quared
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  Speaker 4: Semi he is, to your point, Ben, one of the
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  Speaker 4: aforementioned Boffin's slash nerds who helped popularize this number writing
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  Speaker 4: system way back in the ninth century. So if we
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  Speaker 4: fast forward in time one hundred years or so, we've
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  Speaker 4: got Europeans encountering the Arabic numeral system, and because of
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  Speaker 4: this trade that's around the tenth century. Up until that time, however,
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  Speaker 4: they all been using really really bonkers inefficient, yet you know,
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  Speaker 4: well intentioned system of Roman numerals, which as you know, Ben,
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  Speaker 4: it still mystifies me to this day, and it is
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  Speaker 4: you know, still used obviously in the naming of kings
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  Speaker 4: and things like that. But also you'll see Roman numerals
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  Speaker 4: as a tradition at the bottom of motion pictures the credits,
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  Speaker 4: you'll see like a really long Roman numeral that represents
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  Speaker 4: a year. And when you see that written now you
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  Speaker 4: kind of understand why it's not the best system because
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  Speaker 4: real hard to parse out what exactly it's saying. I
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  Speaker 4: can't hardly do it with just like four characters own
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  Speaker 4: like twenty yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: By the way, let's throw to Max real quick. Here,
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  Speaker 1: Hey Max, what super Bowl is it?
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  Speaker 2: They go? Another one that uses the romans. Yeah, it
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  Speaker 2: is a number between one and sixty.
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  Speaker 4: Okay, great, How would you how would you, Parson? How
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  Speaker 4: would you spell it out with Roman numerals?
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  Speaker 3: It might be what's l L L was a couple
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  Speaker 3: of years ago, which is fifty, So it's like.
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  Speaker 2: L L l i X l i X super Bowl
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  Speaker 2: licks sounds dirty?
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  Speaker 4: No, sorry, yeah, yeah, February the most recent one, February
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  Speaker 4: of twenty five was.
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  Speaker 3: So we're going to be at l LX then next
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  Speaker 3: because that's sixty then, right, LX is fifty nine oh
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  Speaker 3: ten years away from having a really good super Bowl.
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  Speaker 1: So Roman numerals, right, and thank you, that's a Max
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  Speaker 1: with the facts. If we can add a null tag
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  Speaker 1: on it, that.
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  Speaker 5: Seek in the Fonda and he's fallen log it's just for.
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  Speaker 2: You right now for sure.
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  Speaker 4: But like, for example, if you, let's see, if you,
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  Speaker 4: if you combine different Roman numerals with standard Roman numerals,
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  Speaker 4: you can form these longer numbers, and like, here's an
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  Speaker 4: example of an obnoxious one, like M D C C
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  Speaker 4: C C l x x x x v iii, which
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  Speaker 4: apparently means nine ninety nine thousand.
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  Speaker 1: Now what if you could just write that an easier way.
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  Speaker 1: Fast forward another several centuries. A guy named Fibdacci who
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  Speaker 1: is low key famous for a couple other things, including
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  Speaker 1: a few sequences uh one in particular, he publishes something
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  Speaker 1: called liber Abakshi in the twelve hundreds, and, just like
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  Speaker 1: al Karzimi before him, this popularizes the Arabic numeral system
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  Speaker 1: in the niscent Western world. Fast forward one more time.
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  Speaker 1: It's a modern day. It's the twenty first century. Everybody
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  Speaker 1: except for the Super Bowl and studio moguls, are using
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  Speaker 1: the Arabic numeral system. Linguistic systems languages across the world
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  Speaker 1: are still as you said, Noel, quite divided one versus
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  Speaker 1: um versus you know, a zhai eines, you know, et cetera.
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  Speaker 1: They all will generally and consistently use this single brilliant
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  Speaker 1: system of numeric notation to agree on basic math.
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  Speaker 2: For sure.
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  Speaker 4: And that's not even to mention like the idea of
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  Speaker 4: binary code and the ones and zeros that make up
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  Speaker 4: digital you know, delivery of information. That's a whole other concepts,
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  Speaker 4: and I'd love to get more into that. I think
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  Speaker 4: we've done some stuff around. We definitely did one about
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  Speaker 4: like the turning you know, code breaking machines and all
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  Speaker 4: of that. But it would be fun to talk a
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  Speaker 4: little bit about the history of coding, because it is becoming, gosh,
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  Speaker 4: the thing that they've told you to go to school
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  Speaker 4: for and that is now seemingly being made part of
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  Speaker 4: history being replaced by AI. Not to put too fine
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  Speaker 4: a point on it, but I think that's maybe worth
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  Speaker 4: an episode. So math alone can't define, however, that human experience.
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  Speaker 4: To our previous point, though these observable phenomena that can
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  Speaker 4: ultimately be drilled down into mathematically, even math cannot fully
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  Speaker 4: explain everything, right, So as a result, depending on where
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  Speaker 4: you go and how you experience the world, some numbers
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  Speaker 4: are defined in terms beyond their actual facts. To quote
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  Speaker 4: Lauren quantitative value. So some numbers good, other numbers bad.
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  Speaker 1: And that's why today, fellow ridiculous historians, we want to
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  Speaker 1: explore some of those numbers called unlucky. We're gonna take
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  Speaker 1: two examples, just to be clear, your mileage may vary.
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  Speaker 1: We're gonna learn some origin stories, some fun superstitions, and
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  Speaker 1: legacy of culture, and then we're also going to go
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  Speaker 1: into some downright ridiculous examples of real life dangerous consequences
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  Speaker 1: based on those beliefs. For now, we're not gonna focus
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  Speaker 1: on thirteen examples. We'll focus on two examples, but we
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  Speaker 1: will start with the number thirteen, because come on, folks,
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  Speaker 1: we're a US based Western podcast, and the most unpopular
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  Speaker 1: number in all of Western discourse is the number thirteen.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, it always reminds me of the excellent Pixies song
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  Speaker 4: number thirteen. Baby, let's see standing in her chinos, sure
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  Speaker 4: pulled off clean, got a tattooed breast, say number thirteen.
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  Speaker 4: He doesn't use that word, he uses a different word.
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  Speaker 4: But it is a song about I don't know who
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  Speaker 4: knows what the Pixies songs are about, but it definitely
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  Speaker 4: has a certain doom saying quality to it, which is
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  Speaker 4: where we're going with this, The number thirteen does not
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  Speaker 4: bode well when it pops up Theoretically. Earlier research indicse
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  Speaker 4: that up to teen percent of the US has a
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  Speaker 4: fear of that very number, even in the modern day,
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  Speaker 4: and that cultural fear is so deeply built into society.
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  Speaker 4: There's even a specific word for this phobia. Ben you
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  Speaker 4: found this one. I'm having a hard time even wrapping
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  Speaker 4: my eyeballs around it. Can you give us a reading phobia?
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  Speaker 2: Trisca de caaphobia? Wow, fear of the number thirteen?
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  Speaker 4: Wait a minute, wasn't there a movie with Jim Carrey
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  Speaker 4: about the number thirteen?
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  Speaker 2: Or was it Jim Carrey Hotel One?
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  Speaker 4: No, it's Jim Carrey Scary number movie, Number movie.
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  Speaker 2: It is called the number twenty three, not the number.
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  Speaker 2: They did a little spin on it. Interesting.
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  Speaker 4: Apparently he sees it everywhere and it causes him to
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  Speaker 4: have some psychological break and there's apparently a twist ending.
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  Speaker 4: And it is based on something called the twenty three enigma,
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  Speaker 4: which is a real world concept where people perceive connections
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  Speaker 4: to the number twenty three in real life.
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  Speaker 1: But that also happens pretty often to individual humans. The
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  Speaker 1: idea of seeing connections no question.
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  Speaker 2: We're connection making machines.
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  Speaker 1: We like to see it better, and don't we Max,
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  Speaker 1: you wanted to jump in here? You got a thirteen thing?
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  Speaker 3: No, I just want to piggyback on something Noel said
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  Speaker 3: about the Pixies recently. When I was coming back from Portland,
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  Speaker 3: I was on vacation out there, some Pixies came on.
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  Speaker 3: I was listening to it, and you know, it's good
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  Speaker 3: when I hear the Pixies. But I'm like, I was like,
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  Speaker 3: man when I started listening to Pixies in high school.
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  Speaker 3: I'm being like, man, I can't wait tell them an adult.
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  Speaker 3: And I understand what these lyrics mean, mean nothing, they
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  Speaker 3: made nothing, nobody.
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  Speaker 4: It's a vibe based lyric, Yeah, Frank, vibe based lyric.
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  Speaker 2: Credible lime logic of the Stone Temple pilots for sure,
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  Speaker 2: or even like Radiohead.
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  Speaker 4: And that's one thing I really dig about, certain lyrics
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  Speaker 4: that are less to be interpreted or have an exact
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  Speaker 4: outright meaning. But it's more what you bring to it,
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  Speaker 4: which is exactly what we do as patterns seeking humans
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  Speaker 4: with them.
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  Speaker 1: Humans are the first thing to look at the heavens
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  Speaker 1: and the mechanisms of reality and say how does this
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  Speaker 1: apply to me? How could I make this about?
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  Speaker 4: When you put it like that, we kind of sound
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  Speaker 4: like a holes. But I guess you know, fairpoint, fairpoint.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, accurate too, no kidding, friends and neighbors. People now
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  Speaker 1: in twenty twenty five in the Western world will genuinely
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  Speaker 1: avoid occasions of auspice. We could call them avoiding marriages, reunions,
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  Speaker 1: significant business handshakes, travel on days this, I'll say it.
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  Speaker 1: Beat me, Max bullshit calendar calls the thirteenth, especially Friday
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  Speaker 1: the thirteenth.
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  Speaker 2: Buddy, I'm such a dang dong.
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  Speaker 4: I did not even think about Friday the thirteenth in
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  Speaker 4: this very clear discussion of unlucky numbers and the number thirteenth.
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  Speaker 4: Of course, it's not like it's the halloweenius non Halloween,
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  Speaker 4: you know, day of the year.
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  Speaker 1: You're okay, careu. It happens all the time. There's even
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  Speaker 1: a whole horror movie franchise literally called Friday the thirteenth.
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  Speaker 4: Well, yeah, that's certainly the most popular pop cultural use
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  Speaker 4: of that. And I don't know, if I don't know,
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  Speaker 4: do you know people that freak out about Friday the
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  Speaker 4: thirteenth or talk about it in hushed tones?
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  Speaker 2: Not a series of films, but the day. I know
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  Speaker 2: a few, I know a few.
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  Speaker 1: Most people I know talk about the franchise talk about
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  Speaker 1: it in a very excited way because they're horror film
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  Speaker 1: fanatics and they love.
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  Speaker 2: Pace of warhies, Chasing's great. Yeah, don't what the camper? Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: they love it.
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  Speaker 4: When my favorite Jason kill in an early movie, it
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  Speaker 4: might be the first one, is when he just takes
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  Speaker 4: a camper who's in a sleeping bag and like cinches
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  Speaker 4: it up at the top and just slams them into
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  Speaker 4: a tree repeatedly. I thought that was very clever. But
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  Speaker 4: if I'm not mistaken, Friday the thirteenth maybe correct us
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  Speaker 4: out there, horror bofens. But does it actually is? Is
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  Speaker 4: that a meaningful event in the film or is it
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  Speaker 4: just kind of referring to just the concept of unluckiness
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  Speaker 4: and a bad day?
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  Speaker 2: I can't recall. I actually can't recall.
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  Speaker 1: I think regardless of how the franchise begins, they lose
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  Speaker 1: touch over the course of the franchise. With Friday the Thirteenth.
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  Speaker 4: It says here on the Internet that the date does
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  Speaker 4: not consistently to your point bend feature in the series.
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  Speaker 4: The first film and only a few subsequent films actually
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  Speaker 4: take place on that specific date, so the movie series
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  Speaker 4: has a confusing timeline and doesn't always adhere to the
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  Speaker 4: date mentioned in the title.
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  Speaker 1: Fair enough, speaking of confusing, shout out to Crystal Lake.
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  Speaker 1: While all the hubbub bubbs over Friday the thirteenth, or
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: thirteen in general, let's travel all the way back to
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: the first pitch of why this number became bad. It
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: goes to the Code of Hamaabi, and the idea is
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: and the speculation goes that Hama Rabbi's Code the first
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: written or the first documented measure of law that humans know.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: It has a list of things right that are going
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: to be crimes and legally punishable, and it purposely omits
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: a thirteenth law from its legal rules. So this might
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: sound like some ancient precedent and super easy to walk
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: around and say, oh, these folks of old were also
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: really scared of the number thirteen, But it turns out
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: the reality of this is kind of ridiculous and classic
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: human It was probably a typo based on the earliest translations.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: They accidentally skipped a line of text.
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: I love like when doomsday prophecies are based on like
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: typos or just that that historical game of telephone that
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: we always talk about.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: It just it brightens my day.
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: Shout out to twenty twelve. Yeah, one hundred percent. And
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: I'm certain that that that this is something that you
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: found as well. But I'd love to explore it more.
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: The idea of I don't see this always. Do you
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: see buildings not having a thirteenth floor all the time anymore?
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: Ooh, I'm excited that we're going to get to that. Yes, yeah, yeah,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: because it still continues. The thing about the surviving Code
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: of Hamarabi, to make it even more ridiculous, is that
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: that translation is not numbered. There's a list of crimes
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: and you know, legal rulings, but they are they're like
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: the things in an email with a dot instead of
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: a one and a two, so there's no number thirteen
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: to miss. It means that none of these folks were
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: frightened by some mystical mathematical power. Instead, they were in
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: a hurry. Stuff fell through the cracks. And maybe another
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: theory is that because of the base ten Arabic numeral system.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's because of that early Mesopotamian societies were super
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: dupes into what we would call base twelve math. That's
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: part of why we measure days in twenty four hour cycles, right,
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: twelve times two, or why the modern international calendar, which
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: is again malarkey, has twelve months. The idea there is.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: That thirteen is just too spoopy.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: It's omination, it's unnatural.
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: Now that, if I'm not mistaken, when we did calendar stuff,
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: it was definitely not for that reason, right, It was
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: more of like it. They needed the math to add up,
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: so twelve made the most sense. You're right, and I've
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: never claimed to fully wrap my head around any of that.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Either. I am not good at math. That's a weed.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: Mutually, are both buffoonishly confused when Thanksgiving or Easter occur
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: in the West. I think both of us just assume
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: someone will tell us these rotating holidays, and that is
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: unfortunately true ridiculous historians. Then we have the other stories
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: about thirteen. They're very spiritually based. Judas is Carriaut famous
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: in certain religious circles. He's the thirteenth guest at the
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: Last Supper. He betrayed the guy who repeatedly helped him
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: out and saved his life, Jesus Christ, Jesus H.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: Christ. If you like, and there's no age, And Harold,
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: where does that even come from?
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: He was sorry, really no think anyway, maybe that's something
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: worth exploring to absurdly Hank then with the dubious facts.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: And there's an earlier example of this, Loki from Nordic lore,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: who was again the thirteenth guide and important party and
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: kind of a pill in those stories. This carries on
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: in multiple forms today. Uh, this is where we're getting
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: to what you alluded to so beautifully earlier, Noel. It
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: is even now in twenty twenty five not uncommon to
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: find an elevator with no thirteen floor button on it,
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: especially in airports, hospitals, institutions of higher learning, which is
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: funny to me. It just skips straight from twelve to fourteen.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Have you run into any of this, you guys.
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: I do always try to look for it, and what
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: I was mentioning earlier, the reason.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: I brought it up, I feel like I don't see it.
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: As much anymore in terms of there not being a thirteen,
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: But I don't know.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: I can't really say for certain.
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: I definitely have witnessed such things, but in my mind
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: I always seem to try to look for it, and
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: be like, we wait, no, there's a thirteen.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Why is there a thirteen?
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I put you off, like, are you going
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: to stay on that floor the hotel?
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: Da da da da? Duh? It's so weird, exactly.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: It's so weird, right because even if, like most people
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: in a secular world, even if you don't actively practice superstition,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: we all have a thing where we kind of err
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: on the side of caution. Right, if it is convenient
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: for me to not put myself in a situation that
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: superstition tells me is disadvantageous, then I'll avoid that situation.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: I will stay on floor fifteen just to be safe.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: This is the wildest part of the unlucky number. Reckoning
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: thirteen as a bad number is primarily overwhelmingly a Western phobia.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: If you went back to ancient Egypt, certain dynasties saw
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: the number thirteen as kind of lucky. So the fear
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: of this number is not a cross cultural phenomenon. It
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: is culturally dependent. No one is absolutely sure how it
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: came about, but everybody heard it to your point about
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: the game of telephone and repeated it to each other.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: So if you are not from Western in society and
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: you're looking in on the benighted Europeans, Americans, Canadians, a
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: little bit of Mexico as well, then you will probably
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: think it somewhere between cute and weird that people care
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: so much about what floor of the hotel they're sleeping on.
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and if we're doing another musical ref if you
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: don't mind, there is a really cool, influential psych rock
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: band from Austin, Texas called The Thirteenth Floor Elevators with
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: Rocky Erickson, a famous oddball front person who I believe
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: passed away and he had some mental health issues, but
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: a very very talented dude.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: I highly recommend checking out their work. But it's not
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: a clever name.
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: It's this the thirteenth Floor Elevators, the elevators that only
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: go to the scary floor.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Love it, Love it. And that's an excellent example. We
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: can also say, for example, thirteen is kind of a larchy,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: as in, there is no real world consequence for ending
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: up with thirteen on your license plate or thirteen guests
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: at your dinner party. But speaking of for example, let's
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: get to one of the most infamous unlucky numbers. Half
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: a world away. Way more people are frightened of the
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: number four.
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I had no idea about this one, Ben, This
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: is fascinating. It is considered super unlucky throughout large parts
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: of Asia, very similar if not more so in terms
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: of the paranoia surrounding it to the way the West
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: looks at number thirteen. So even today you will find
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: elevators that won't list the fourth floor going from three
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: directly to five, or having like a subheading on three,
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: so like the floor between three and would be three.
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: A I can't wait three and a half reminds me
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: of the tiny floor from being John Malcolmvich.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: Oh, perfect reference. Yeah, I can't wait till we make
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: it over to that part of the world together for
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History Live. You're absolutely correct. No, throughout China to one,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: the Korean Peninsula and Japan, the number four is treated
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: with even more suspicion than we in the West treat
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: the number thirteen. Again, it's so common that there is
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: an entire word for the fear of the number four
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: in English. It's pretty predictable. It's tetraphobia, and that is
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: unfortunately not related to tetris phobia, which would have big fun.
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: So cool that these very niche. Yeah, maybe it's not
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: niche if enough people believe it. Fears have their own phobias,
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: just like in the West, elevators and hospitals and airports
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: and apartment buildings, office buildings are going to skip the
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: fourth floor in Beijing, for example, license plates avoid using
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: that number. Though I do wonder, like, how is this
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: implemented systematically? Like a lot of those numbers are sort
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: of randomly generated, or they're generated based on pre existing sequences,
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: like what if your number comes up as they say,
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: you know, is someone gonna like complain? Are they gonna say, uh,
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: I don't want that one?
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah? What are you doing?
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: License plate issuing authority? Are you telling me to die?
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Are you final destinationing me? I'm gonna make it a
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: verb anyway over over in Singapore, dude, the legendary Alpha
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Romeo had the Model one four and they had to
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: change the name to sell it to these high rolling,
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: very fancy tycoons.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: It's very interesting.
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: It reminds me of the way American movies often have
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: to be re edited for Asian markets to remove mentions
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: of overtly supernatural stuff. And I mean, maybe I'm overstate
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: over simplifying that, but I do recall that a Ghostbusters
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: movie was very very heavily edited, and that mentions of
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: ghosts in general, and you know, spiritual entities are kind
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: of frowned upon over there because of very similar cultural sensitivities.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: M one hundred percent. Yeah, And do check out our
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: earlier gosh, what was it stuff they don't want you
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: to know episodes about American studios sort of tailoring their
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: products to Chinese markets, who are, by the way, folks,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: the biggest theatrical market out there.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: Oftentimes movies will make their budget or become profitable even
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: if they're a flop here at home, because they do
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: well abroad.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: Shout out to specific specific grim. I think it's a
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: great movie.
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: I didn't see any of the sequels, and I did
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: also want to point out a recent ish episode we
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: did on Ridiculous History about some international, uh let's say,
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: events negative that were caused by miss prints, you know,
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: in products and various American kind of things that you know,
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: created quite a kerfuffle abroad because of you know, mistranslations.
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: It's not exactly the same, but I think it's a
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: good spiritual kind of partner to this episode.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: Right on you know, it may astound a lot of
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: us listening to realize that multiple international brands will purposefully
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: and preemptively retouch their products entirely to avoid using the
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: number four in Asian markets. So we have to ask,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: why is this tetraphobia so much stronger than triskdea of
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: phobia which I am stumbling through the fear of the
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: number thirteen. The true answer here, folks, which we can
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: give you the straight poop, is this The number four
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: as a fearful number is rooted in language. It goes
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: way way back. It's often misreport like. Think about it
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: this way. The number thirteen in English is a relatively
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: singular word. You can slant rhyme it with phrases like
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: the third teen or thirstteen, but the actual word thirteen
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: is just what it means. It means three more units
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: past ten. That's not the case here. In multiple languages
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: across East Asia, the word for four sounds distressingly similar
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: to the word for death. Thank you for the sound You're.
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: There next, Oh yes, oh no, death, Sweet embrace.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: Picture being a.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: Kid over in the mainland Middle Kingdom and you're learning
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: to count you got eh song.
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: Death, Oh no, it's so metal, it's sure uh so,
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: well that doesn't sound quite a scary but.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Well, without going into the weeds, Chinese, as we know,
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: is a tone language, or it's a collection of tonal languages.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Mandarin has four tones, Cantonese has too many for us
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: to learn. And it means that the pronounced tone of
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: a vocalization indicates the concept the content you are communicating.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: If if we could, this might just be fun for us.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: Can we play a weird poem that shows us how
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: bizarre this total language can become?
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: Only if we can all listen to it together. Ben,
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: that sounds lovely so.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: In English, this is the lion eating poet in the
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Stone Den, or you could say the story of mister
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: she eating lions. Every word in here is a different
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: total pronunciation of shit.
• 34:50
  Speaker 5: The title sessh ish, the contentesh suh.
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: You see what I'm saying makes your head spin in
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: the best way I hear it. But boy, oh boy,
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: it's about the inflection, right, It's about the tonality of
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: the upward or downward, and then sometimes the length of
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: the sound. It seems like some are shorter, some are
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: a little longer, some have it's interesting tones yeah, yeah.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I love it. It's really cool. Ben.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: Well, we're not the ones who came up with it, Noel,
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: but it gives us a sense as non native speakers
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: about the concept. And then we say, what about the
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: languages in nearby regions that do not rely on tones?
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: In Japan and.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Korea, the words for for and for death are likewise similar.
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: Correct In Japanese, for or she and death she share
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: the same pronunciation, okay, that makes sense. In Korean, however,
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: both are pronounced saw. So people in Japan particularly do
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: not like the number forty nine double whammy, as it
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: sounds sort of like saying pain until death.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: Happy birthday, everybody, exactly. Not cool, man.
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: The kids are really into some numerology stuff these days.
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: There's a new brain rot kind of term that's like
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: sixty seven.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: I want to say six seven seven. Hold on, let's
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: see slang.
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: Sixty seven means to abruptly, reject, dismiss, or leave someone
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: or something, often used to tell somebody to go away.
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: So it seems like it's part of a meme and
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: kids are saying that now. But then I remember eighty six,
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: which meant in restaurant parlance that something was out that
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: you were out of something.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: So I don't know.
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: I'm very curious about where some of these numbers come from.
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: Maybe it's like from like walkie talkie or something like that.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: But I digress.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: Now, who are we to eighty six superstition? It does
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: make me wonder about the old stories of unfortunately named
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: automobiles in different linguistic markets. It also makes me wonder
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: about how films like The Fantastic Four are going to
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: play in Asia, again, with China being the largest theatrical market.
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: Well oftentimes, though, like those types of movies, numbers aside
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: get a much more culturally under recognizable name. It'll be
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: like the Magic Family, the Magic Family, Yes, thank you, Ben,
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: thank you one hundred percent, the Stretchy Boy and the
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: Fireman you know.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, perfect, I mean and joking aside, there's a
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: great deal of xenophobia on either shore the proverbial pond here,
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: so we have to keep in mind that the vast
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: majority of modern humans are not actively terrify of numbers
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: that just exist without opinions or powers of their own.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: A ton of Eastern and Western literature over the centuries
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: has practiced othering, and it's portraying people that the authors
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: have never met as slaves to some sort of superstition.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: But look, also, if all things equal, right, if you
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: are in the West and you have the opportunity to
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: choose between floor twelve and floor fifteen, you might not
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: go for thirteen if you don't have to try extra
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. Then maybe maybe well maybe you get
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: a deal on thirteen.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: Maybe you get a deal on thirteen. We're revealing a
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: lot about ourselves.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: In that case.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we are down to sleep on floor thirteen as
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: well as floor four. Maybe we do an episode on
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: lucky numbers in the future. What do you think, what.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: A great idea. Yeah, the Yen and the Young. Yeah,
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: what I know, eight.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: Is seen as a fortuitous number in some parts of
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: the world.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: I mean the obvious one is lucky number seven, I think, yeah, yeah,
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Let's see three Trinity three, Yeah, the
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: Holy Trinity wouilch.
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: I probably would would be a reasoning behind that being
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: a lucky number. But I am also fascinated about we
• 39:27
  Speaker 4: briefly mentioned it up top, but like, what makes numbers
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: have power?
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: In that Kabbala tradition of Jewish mysticism. I need to
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: read that.
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: I need Yeah, I need to revisit PI to maybe
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: answer some of those questions or just do a little digging.
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: But man, Ben, what a great research doc you put
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: together on this one. It's such a cool topic and
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: I had a lot of fun talking about.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: It with you.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: Well, we're going to spin this out so we don't
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: end on forty four. Big big thanks to our super producer,
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: mister Max Williams. Big thanks to our Brotherred Arms Alex Williams,
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: who composed this slap and bop. Have you checked in
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: with them? Miss him a little?
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: I miss him quite a lot. I haven't talked to
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: him in a.
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: Hot minute, but I do owe him a poke to
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: use the antiquated Facebook parlance.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and huge thanks to Rachel Big Spinach Lance will.
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: Be joining us soon if if she has anything to
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: do with it, because we're really bad at email, but
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: we really are excited to have her talk about some
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: underwater explosiony type stuff. Big thanks to Jonathan Strickland, the
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: Quiztor a j Bahamas Jacobs the Puzzler.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: Medium thanks to Jonathan Strickland aka the Quiztor. Big thanks
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: to Eve's Jeffcoat Christopher hasiotis here in spirit, The Rude Dudes,
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: that Ridiculous Crime Big thanks to Doctor Venkman, Apollo and
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: the Cat with a Thousand Names. Also, don't think I
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: forgot Max Big thanks to Sylvia mm hmm.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: See you next time, folks.
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
• 41:10
  Speaker 4: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.