Latest / Reformed Thinking / Q&A | Brooks Buser, Chad Vegas, Jonathan Master

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Q&A | Brooks Buser, Chad Vegas, Jonathan Master · Reformed Thinking

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  Welcome, everyone, to the DEEP Dive.
• 0:02
  This is your shortcut to getting, well, really informed.
• 0:05
  And that audio you just heard that's brought to you by our
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  friends at Reformed Thinking. Yeah, this is where we take, you
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  know, your sources, articles, notes, whatever you've got.
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  And we really try to pull out the key stuff, the surprising
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  bits without all the noise. So today we're going to jump
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  right into something pretty significant.
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  I think the whole picture of global missions right now, what
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  does it actually look like? We want to help you get clear on
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  what missionary even means today.
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  Tackle some maybe misunderstandings and figure out
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  OK, how can the gospel spread effectively, especially with
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  folks who haven't heard it's a it's a big topic.
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  It really is. And our mission here, I think,
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  is to distill a a clear picture of biblically sound missions.
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  We're drawing this straight from the material provided.
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  We want to set the stage for a talk that hopefully uncovers
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  some interesting facts and gives you, the listener, some good
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  tools, some real knowledge about this whole venture.
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  And he'll distinguish, you know, that solid historical biblical
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  understanding for maybe some newer ideas that have popped up.
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  Get to the heart of it. Exactly, and we've got quite a
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  bit to work with here. Insights from AQ and a session,
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  some detailed notes, a general guide, different perspective.
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  So yeah, should be a good discussion.
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  Ready to dig in? OK, so let's start right there.
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  This foundational idea. What really marks out a modern
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  missionary? What's their their specific
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  calling, their purpose? The sources seem pretty clear on
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  this. It starts with being called, set
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  apart and sent by a church. Right.
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  That's the core identity. It's not just a personal feeling
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  or leading, though that's part of it.
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  It's got the authority and the backing of a local body of
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  believers. Yeah, the church isn't passive.
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  They're actively sending someone to the foreign field.
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  And it's not just sending, it's backing them up, right, Being
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  hands on as the notes say. Exactly.
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  Hands on, with sending, with supporting, even with starting
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  more churches internationally, there's this direct, tangible
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  connection. OK, so they're sent by the
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  church. What's their main job then?
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  What's the core task? It boils down to the
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  proclamation of the person and work of Jesus by the Holy Spirit
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  through His Word. Proclamation.
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  Gospel centered. Yes.
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  And that naturally includes or leads to the establishment of
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  churches planting new communities of faith.
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  Now this is where it gets interesting, maybe a little
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  tricky. The sources draw a line between
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  this and broader ideas like Missio Day.
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  That term has caused some confusion, hasn't it?
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  It seems so. Some interpretations stretch it
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  to cover almost anything good, like humanitarian work
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  reconciliation in general. Right.
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  And while those things can be good, the specific task of the
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  missionary, as these sources frame it, is that gospel
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  proclamation leading to church planting.
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  It's a focused mandate. Keeping the main thing the main
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  thing, so to speak. Precisely, it ensures clarity
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  about the message and the goal, forming new churches where
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  Christ isn't known. And you know, digging deeper
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  into that focus. Many missionaries, especially in
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  what's called 4th lane missions, we'll probably talk more about
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  that later. They specifically target
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  unreached people groups UPG's. Right, UPG's define that for us.
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  Again, what makes a group unreached?
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  Well, the definition here is quite specific.
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  It's a language group. Crucially, a language group that
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  doesn't have a gospel preaching church among them.
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  No local church. None.
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  And no gospel preaching missionaries working in that
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  language. And importantly, no access to
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  the Bible in their own tongue. Wow, so total lack of access.
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  Total lack of access, which often means these missionaries
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  have to go to very difficult places to get to places off the
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  beaten path where the gospel has 0 footing.
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  And this isn't something you just casually step into.
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  Preparation seems key. Oh, absolutely.
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  There's a strong emphasis on formal preparation.
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  We see mentions of organizations like Radius for example, having
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  trained 400 plus missionaries. 400 that's substantial.
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  It is. And this training isn't just
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  about knowing theology, though that's vital.
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  It's about equipping for endurance, for fruitfulness.
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  The goal is that the church plants are substantial and going
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  to last, not just a flash in the pan.
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  So practical skills too like. Language, definitely.
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  It involves serious effort to learn language, learn to survive
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  there, learning the culture of the norms.
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  It's about deep cultural immersion to share the deepest
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  truths effectively. So what does this emphasis on
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  preparation and reaching upgs tell us about the the nature of
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  the work itself? One thing that comes through is
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  this idea of the long game. Yes, very much so.
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  This isn't short term stuff. Typically missionaries are often
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  in it for the long haul. They're looking to establish
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  church that don't just survive, but multiply churches.
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  They can eventually send out their own missionaries.
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  Right to other UPG's maybe? Exactly.
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  And even developing their own written language, their
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  orthography, teaching their people to read the Bible in
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  their own tongue, building something truly indigenous and
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  self-sustaining. That's a powerful vision, and it
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  sounds like teamwork is crucial. Generally yes.
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  It's often team based. Ministry members support each
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  other, build different skills. But the roles of women mentioned
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  translators, Bible instructors. Yes, the sources highlight women
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  playing very strong roles, especially in context, say, like
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  some Muslim settings, where cultural norms mean women can
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  reach other women in ways men simply can't.
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  It takes diverse gifts. That makes sense.
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  And it's not just for young people either, right?
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  What about older folks? No, definitely not.
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  Yeah, there's a place for mid career or even retired
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  individuals. Maybe not in the physically
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  demanding frontline church planting role, but their skills
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  are invaluable. Like doctors?
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  Doctors saving lives providing critical care, or pilots flying
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  for mission organizations handling logistics.
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  That frees up others for the direct planting work.
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  It's a whole ecosystem of support.
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  OK, so you have these long term trained, often team based
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  missionaries, sometimes supported by specialists.
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  How does that compare to say, short term mission trips?
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  Yeah, necessary distinction. Short term trips can be valuable
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  for exposure, maybe for someone thinking long term kind of a.
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  Look. See Trip.
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  Sort of, or for specific tasks that genuinely help the long
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  term team. But the sources are pretty
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  clear. A pastor visiting for
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  encouragement on a church paid vacation quote UN quote isn't
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  really a short term missionary in the same sense.
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  Because the core definition is tied to that sustained work and
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  the goal of church planting among the unreach.
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  Exactly. It's about that dedicated long
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  term engagement. Which brings us back to that
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  term you mentioned earlier, the 4th lane.
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  Why this specific category? What does it really signify?
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  Yeah, what is the 4th lane? It refers specifically to
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  frontier missions, the sharp edge, if you will, directed
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  precisely at those unreached people groups, the UPG's places
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  with 0 existing gospel presence 0.
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  We need to keep hitting that definition.
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  A language group lacking a gospel preaching church.
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  No missionaries working in that language, no Bible access.
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  So it's about pioneering work, breaking new ground entirely.
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  That's the idea, and identifying these groups requires some
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  precision. How do they?
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  Figure out who qualifies. Primarily by language.
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  That's the key identifier current estimate and it does
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  shift is around 3100 UPGS. 3100 language groups with no access.
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  Roughly, yes, but the number itself is constantly changing.
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  Research gets better, definitions get refined.
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  There were apparently some challenges with older methods
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  being a bit sloppy, you know, leading to much higher numbers
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  like the 17,000 from Joshua project figure mentioned. 17,000
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  How did they get that high? Well, it seems they might have
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  used broader definitions. The example given was almost
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  humorous, like classifying a female biker gang in this state
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  as unreached. OK, that does seem broad.
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  Right. So the push now is for a more
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  narrow for precise definition using detailed language group
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  surveys, assessing if a language is truly viable, actively
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  spoken, used day-to-day. Precision matters for strategy.
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  OK, precision in defining UPG's. That makes sense.
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  But here's the part that really jumped out at me from the notes,
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  the resources. Yes, the allocation.
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  It's described as a glaring weakness.
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  Apparently only about 1% of missionary money and people are
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  directed towards 4th lane work, 1%.
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  A startling figure. And contrasted with 97% goes to
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  the most reached places on Earth, places that already have
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  churches, Bibles, missionaries. Yeah.
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  The metaphor used was vivid. The 4th lane is like the
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  crippled kid that doesn't get picked on for like sports teams.
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  It's the slightest or the smallest in the pack when it
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  comes to getting attention or resources.
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  Why? Why such a huge imbalance?
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  Is it just lack of awareness? Or is it harder work, less
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  appealing? Well.
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  Let's look at the characteristics of 4th lane work
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  that might give us some clues. 1st, as we said, no gospel
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  presence at all. This isn't reinforcing existing
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  work, It's starting from absolute scratch.
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  OK. Definitely harder.
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  And often in very difficult places.
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  To get to remote, challenging environments, missionaries might
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  need to learn a major language first, then transition into a
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  minority language context where the UPG actually is.
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  So multiple layers of difficulty.
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  Yes, and it demands the long game.
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  As we discussed, establishing churches that last takes years,
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  decades. Sometimes it's not about quick
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  results. Maybe that focus on the long
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  game is less attractive in some circles compared to more
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  immediate visible ministry. That could be part of it.
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  No instant gratification. Perhaps, but the goal is
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  profound. Yeah, that replication mindset.
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  Right. The idea that these new and
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  Upg's should eventually become planting churches themselves.
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  Exactly. Sending their own people to
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  other Upg's, developing their own written language, teaching
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  their own people to read scripture.
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  This whole approach actively pushes back against any subtle
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  ethnocentrism. You know, the idea that maybe
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  some cultures don't need a written Bible or can't sustain
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  their own theological development.
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  Believing they have the full capacity, with God's help, to
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  lead and multiply. Absolutely empowering local
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  believers is central to the whole endeavor.
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  So given this need, especially in the 4th lane, how are
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  churches encouraged to respond? What's the practical advice?
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  Well, one suggestion is strategic focus.
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  Since resources are limited, maybe churches should aim to do
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  one thing really well. Instead of spreading themselves
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  thin. Yeah, like the example given of
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  a church deciding to only do the frontier New Foundations kind of
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  missions, putting all their external mission eggs in that
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  UPG basket, so to speak. That's a clear commitment.
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  It allows for deeper partnership and more significant support for
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  those specific efforts. But changing a church's mission
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  focus isn't easy, is it? No, definitely not, which is why
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  the advice includes patients play long game within the church
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  to. Be gentle, kind, intentional.
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  Right. Don't try to blow up your church
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  missions program overnight. That usually backfires.
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  It's about education, prayer, building conviction together
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  over time, leading gently towards a more strategic focus,
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  especially on the least reached. OK, let's shift gears a bit and
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  unpack A theological term that came up Missio day, the mission
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  of God. The sources say this has become
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  a real problem in missions. Why?
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  What's the issue? Well, the core issue seems to be
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  how the term has been interpreted by some.
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  Specifically, it's been separated from the mission of
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  the Son and the mission of the Holy Spirit.
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  Separated how? What does that mean practically?
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  It means the mission of God gets defined so broadly that it loses
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  its specific connection to Christ's redemptive work and the
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  Spirit's application of it. Leading to that everything is
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  missions idea. Exactly.
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  If Missy Oday is just about God working in the world to
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  reconcile things generally, then as the sources put it,
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  everything is a part of mission if it in any way shape or form
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  reconciles things. And the examples given were
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  things like digging wells, environmental work.
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  Digging a well, growing crops sustainably, things that are
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  good, objectively good, but the interpretation can stretch so
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  far that quoting the source again.
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  Even a Muslim who hates Jesus could be seen as completing the
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  Missio Day just by digging a well.
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  Wow. OK, I can see why that's called
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  a huge problem. It completely detaches mission
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  from the Gospel message. It risks doing that, yes.
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  It dilutes the unique calling of the church.
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  So what's the corrective? What is the biblically grounded
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  understanding of Missio Day, according to these sources?
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  Well, it sounds like it needs to be tied back directly to the
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  Trinity. Precisely.
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  Historically and biblically, Missio Day refers specifically
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  to the sending of two Persons of the Trinity.
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  First, the mission of the Son. He is sent by the Father to
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  redeem us. His incarnation, life, death,
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  resurrection. That's His.
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  Mission redemption accomplished. Yes, and 2nd, the mission of the
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  Holy Spirit. He is sent by the Father and the
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  Son to apply that redemption to us.
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  He convicts, regenerates, sanctifies, empowers.
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  Redemption applied. Exactly.
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  And the Church's mission finds its place within those two
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  divine missions. It's caught up in those two
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  missions. So the Church's mission isn't
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  bigger than Christ's mission or the Spirit's.
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  Mission. No, it can't be.
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  It's derivative. It flows from them.
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  It's certainly not greater than the mission of the Sun, or more
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  expansive than the mission of the Sun and the mission of the
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  Holy Spirit. So for the church, the mission
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  of God means. What it means the proclamation
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  of the person and work of Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit
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  through His Word. That's the core.
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  And importantly, this proclamation is not exclusive of
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  church planting the 2GO hand in hand.
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  The Church is the community formed by the proclamation and
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  the vehicle for its continued spread.
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  OK, that's much clearer. Tying it back to the sun and
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  Spirit keeps the gospel central. It does.
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  The broader interpretations, the sources argue, have frankly
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  turned into all sorts of things and created a real mess by
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  obscuring that specific Christ centered mandate.
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  Right, so that's the mission, proclaiming Christ, planting
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  churches, especially among the unreached.
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  What does it take to equip people for that and keep them
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  going? We touched on training earlier,
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  but let's dive deeper. The sources strongly affirm
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  formal training. Yes, very strongly.
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  And they grounded biblically and historically.
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  Like the disciples spending three years with Jesus.
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  Exactly. A 247 situation with the Lord
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  himself. That's pretty intensive
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  training. And then early church history
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  shows formal schools for ministry popping up quickly.
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  High points in mission history often correlate with an emphasis
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  on solid preparation. And the thinking is this leads
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  to better outcomes. It seems so.
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  Training helps mission work last and are substantial.
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  It guards against quick fixes. And it helps people stick with
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  it. Yes, it leads to persistence and
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  success. It provides a foundation to
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  weather the inevitable difficulties.
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  What about those historical figures though, like DL Moody
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  mentioned as someone without formal training who did a lot?
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  Acknowledged. Yes, but they're seen as
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  exceptions rather than the rule. And it's probably unwise to
• 15:03
  assume you're the exception. The sources suggest it's
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  prideful to make that assumption and frankly, foolhardy to walk
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  away from such a privilege of learning from those who've
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  studied and served before. Yeah, the analogy used was
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  striking. You wouldn't want an untrained
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  Dr. or soldier, right? Yet sometimes that standard gets
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  relaxed for missions, which seems illogical given the
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  spiritual and cultural complexities involved.
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  Preparation matters, but training isn't the whole picture
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  for endurance, is it? There's a deep spiritual
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  dimension. Absolutely.
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  The need for a vibrant prayer life comes through loud and
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  clear. Yes, and it's noted that what's
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  needed on the field isn't fundamentally different from
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  what's needed at home. But perhaps the need feels more
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  acute. It's rooted in a belief in the
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  supernatural, right? We're spirited, 12 people.
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  We actually communicate with God.
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  He hears us. The source even uses the word
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  suggestions that God listens to our suggestions in prayer.
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  That's described as shocking, that idea.
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  We shouldn't minimize it. Definitely not.
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  Prayer isn't just a formality, it's acknowledging utter
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  dependence on God for anything fruitful to happen.
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  And team prayer is also highlighted.
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  Yeah, suggested as a regular meeting point for mission teams,
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  a time to intentionally be thinking through and praying for
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  each other, that mutual support is vital.
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  Interesting point made about distractions too.
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  Easier to pray on the field sometimes.
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  That was one person's reflection, Yes, it was so much
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  easier to read my Bible and to pray because there's so many
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  fewer distractions. Pure emails.
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  Social media notifications. Maybe so contrasted with Home,
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  where phones are called an enemy, books like Digital
• 16:42
  Liturgies and 12 Ways Your Phone Is Changing You were recommended
• 16:46
  especially for younger folks dealing with that constant
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  digital pull. That's a challenge everywhere, I
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  suppose, finding focus for spiritual disciplines.
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  It really is and just looping back quickly to the team and
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  diverse roles. The impact of women as mentioned
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  again. Gladys Aylward, Elizabeth
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  Elliott, Amy Carmichael, Betty Green.
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  Right. Historical figures who had an
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  incredible impact, and contemporary roles as
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  translators, Bible instructors especially reaching segregated
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  women. Radius, for instance, explicitly
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  trains women missionaries how to teach the Bible effectively in
• 17:19
  those contexts. And the contributions of mid
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  career folks like the doctors mentioned, John Misduses and Bud
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  Morton's and pilots support roles are crucial.
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  Absolutely. It takes a whole community with
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  varied gifts supporting the frontline work.
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  So let's talk about the sending church again.
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  What does it look like for a church to send Well to be really
• 17:38
  effective Effective in this? The desire seems to be
• 17:40
  replication, seeing churches like Brooks, Buzzer's Church or
• 17:43
  another one mentioned having their effective programs copied
• 17:46
  elsewhere. What makes them effective?
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  It sounds like they actively mobilize both goers, the
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  missionaries and senders, the supporters at home.
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  It's a whole church effort. Not just the missions committee.
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  Apparently not. Some churches dedicate huge
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  portions of their budget, like half their income, to support.
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  And the support is practical, providing housing, cars during
• 18:07
  furlough, even helping fund retirement.
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  Wow, that's comprehensive. That really embodies that long
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  game of support, doesn't it? A deep, lasting partnership.
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  It seems so. It's a holistic view of caring
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  for those they send out. OK.
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  But working together, especially internationally, brings up
• 18:23
  practical challenges like theological differences between
• 18:26
  team members or partner ministries.
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  How do you navigate that? Yeah, the notes advise caution,
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  or at least prudence when forming teams.
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  If there are substantive theological disagreements.
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  Ecclesiology. The doctrine of the Church is
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  mentioned specifically. Makes sense, you can work
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  together on some things even with differences.
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  Right Co belligerence on broad gospel issues as possible.
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  But when you're actually planting a church?
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  Then you need agreement on core doctrines.
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  You can't plant a Baptarian church, as the quote goes.
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  Beliefs about leadership, sacraments, membership.
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  They matter in church formation. So unity in the essentials,
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  especially for church planting, but maybe broader cooperation as
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  possible where there's agreement in the same God and in the same
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  gospel, because ultimately Christ is our banner, not a
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  specific confession. That sounds like the balance
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  they're aiming for. Discernment is key.
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  And what about that tricky situation where a missionary
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  knows another ministry is supporting churches involved
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  with his, well, teaching error, like the prosperity gospel
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  example? Yeah, that's delicate.
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  The advice was be honest. If directly asked by your
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  supporters, you're on the ground.
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  You see things. But don't go looking for
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  trouble. Pretty much avoid volunteering
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  the negative information unprompted as it might look
• 19:41
  self-serving or just create unnecessary trouble, especially
• 19:44
  if the church isn't ready for that conversation.
• 19:47
  Honesty with discretion. OK, let's revisit short term
• 19:51
  trips. We said they can be useful.
• 19:53
  How? What are the legitimate roles?
• 19:55
  The sources identify 2 primary discrete roles.
• 20:00
  Two specific functions. Right, first fact, finding
• 20:03
  exposure for someone seriously considering long term service.
• 20:07
  Let them go see it, feel it before committing years of their
• 20:10
  life. Makes sense.
• 20:11
  Get a realistic picture. Second, serving long term teams
• 20:15
  with specific needed tasks. Things the team on the ground
• 20:18
  maybe doesn't have time or skills for.
• 20:20
  Like the example of clearing an airfield?
• 20:22
  Or maybe medical clinics, Construction help?
• 20:25
  Exactly tangible help that directly assist the long termers
• 20:28
  and their primary work. But there were strong warnings
• 20:31
  too, weren't there? Especially about evangelism
• 20:33
  trips. Yes, strong cautions against
• 20:35
  sending short term teams for direct evangelism if they don't
• 20:38
  have the language or proper cultural preparation.
• 20:41
  It's called dangerous. Dangerous how?
• 20:44
  It can lead to a lot of bad things, miscommunication,
• 20:47
  cultural offense, maybe even endangering local believers, or
• 20:51
  the long term work. There's sometimes this unhelpful
• 20:54
  idea that the Holy Spirit just magically overcomes total lack
• 20:57
  of preparation. And it can be a burden on the
• 20:59
  long term folks. It can hosting teams, managing
• 21:03
  logistics, translating. It can pull long term
• 21:06
  missionaries away from their primary tasks.
• 21:08
  The goal should always be to genuinely help, not
• 21:11
  inadvertently hinder. So zooming back out to the
• 21:14
  Church's overall mission strategy, the advice seems
• 21:17
  consistent. Focus, Focus.
• 21:19
  Given limited resources, time, money, people, churches should
• 21:23
  figure out what they can do well.
• 21:24
  And prioritize the least done work.
• 21:27
  That's the strong recommendation.
• 21:29
  Prioritize the 4th lane, the frontier missions among UPG's
• 21:32
  because that's where the need for initial gospel access is
• 21:35
  greatest and where the resources are currently scarcest.
• 21:37
  And for folks within a church wanting to move things in that
• 21:40
  direction. Patience and gentleness.
• 21:42
  Remember, play the long game, be kind and intentional.
• 21:46
  Don't try to force it or blow up the existing program.
• 21:49
  Build consensus, Educate, pray. Gradual intentional change.
• 21:54
  Exactly. Sustainable change comes from
• 21:56
  shared conviction, OK. Let's look towards the Fisher
• 21:58
  then. What's the vision for how this
• 22:00
  gospel work multiplies, especially in these UPG
• 22:03
  contexts? The goal, as we've touched on,
• 22:06
  is indigenous multiplication, new churches becoming planting
• 22:09
  churches. Sending their own missionaries,
• 22:11
  yes. The example given was the YMB
• 22:14
  and B Church already sending out three families there, building
• 22:17
  gardens, building houses with plans for the next 20 years.
• 22:22
  It's about local believers taking ownership of the Great
• 22:24
  Commission in their context and beyond.
• 22:26
  And overcoming that subtle ethnocentrism we talked about.
• 22:29
  Definitely pushing back on the idea that maybe oral cultures
• 22:33
  don't need or can't handle a written Bible.
• 22:36
  The assertion is that indigenous churches can reach these levels
• 22:39
  with time, support and effort. They can develop their own
• 22:42
  orthography, teach their people literacy, engage deeply with
• 22:45
  Scripture themselves. Full spiritual maturity and
• 22:48
  self-sufficiency within their own culture.
• 22:50
  That's the aim. And what about the role of, say,
• 22:53
  English speaking churches globally in all this?
• 22:56
  Do they still have a part to play?
• 22:58
  Apparently yes, good English speaking churches in cross
• 23:02
  cultural settings can have a powerful impact.
• 23:05
  How so? Partly because English is so
• 23:07
  often the language of business and travel, these churches
• 23:11
  become hubs for reaching diverse international communities, expat
• 23:15
  students, business people who might be more accessible there
• 23:18
  than in their home countries. Interesting, like the Radius
• 23:21
  conference being held at an English speaking church in Ras
• 23:24
  Al Qaimah. Exactly.
• 23:26
  It shows the strategic potential.
• 23:27
  And what about the relationship between the local church, the
• 23:30
  missionary and the mission agency?
• 23:33
  The ideal presented is for churches to be really hands on,
• 23:36
  more involved than just pointing someone to an agency website
• 23:40
  and, you know, waiting for the slideshow when you get back.
• 23:43
  More direct partnership. Yeah, recognizing that most
• 23:45
  church plants involve people from different sending churches,
• 23:48
  so collaboration is key. But the sending church should
• 23:51
  aim for deep involvement. And training helps there too.
• 23:54
  Seems so things like Greenville's Missions, Midweeker
• 23:57
  program are mentioned, specifically designed to help
• 24:00
  church learn how to send well, equipping the senders, not just
• 24:04
  the goers. Well, this has been quite the
• 24:07
  deep dive as we wrap up. We've really tried to clarify
• 24:10
  some key things today, haven't we?
• 24:12
  I think so. We've looked at what really
• 24:14
  defines A missionary sent by a church.
• 24:16
  Focus on gospel proclamation and church planning.
• 24:19
  We've unpacked the idea of unreached people groups, the
• 24:22
  need for precision there and that stark imbalance, that 1%
• 24:26
  going to the 4th lane. Right.
• 24:27
  And we tackled Missio Day, grounding it back in the mission
• 24:30
  of the Sun and the Spirit, away from those overly broad
• 24:33
  interpretations. We also saw the call for
• 24:35
  rigorous training, vibrant prayer and really comprehensive
• 24:39
  long term support from sending churches.
• 24:42
  And that vision for indigenous churches multiplying themselves,
• 24:45
  taking the lead and reaching others.
• 24:47
  It's all about strategic, patient, church driven
• 24:50
  engagement. So maybe a final thought for
• 24:52
  you, the listener, to Mull over that 1% figure going to the 4th
• 24:56
  lane, 1% of resources to the places with 0 gospel access.
• 25:01
  What might it mean for you personally or for your church
• 25:03
  community to think more intentionally about focusing on
• 25:06
  what is least done? How could understanding
• 25:09
  missionaries, UPGS, and God's mission in these specific ways
• 25:13
  shape your prayers, your giving, maybe even your own sense of
• 25:17
  calling in the world something to consider?
• 25:20
  Thank you for joining us on the Deep Dive today.
• 25:21
  We really hope this conversation has given you some clarity,
• 25:24
  maybe some fresh perspectives, and armed you with insights for
• 25:27
  for genuine impact. We invite you to reflect on
• 25:30
  these ideas and as always, keep pursuing understanding until
• 25:33
  next time.