Latest / Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast / IFH 781: From Pre-Med to Marquee Lights: Jenny Paul's Journey of Creative Bravery and Storytelling

Transcript

IFH 781: From Pre-Med to Marquee Lights: Jenny Paul's Journey of Creative Bravery and Storytelling · Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You are listening to the ifh podcast Network. For more
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  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Indie Film Muscle Podcast, Episode number seven
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: eighty one. Cinema Should Make You Forget. You're sitting in
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  Speaker 3: And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Huscle Podcast.
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  Speaker 3: I am your humble host, Alex Ferrari.
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  Speaker 2: Today's show is sponsored by Rise of the Film Entrepreneur
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• 1:50
  Speaker 2: today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: My guest is an actress and producer who's known for
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: Jessica Jones That Reminds Me and the upcoming Hulu series
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: He's a Looming Tower. We're gonna be talking about all
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: that stuff besides fun stories about the fun Wombus uh,
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: which is a some pretty cool stories and UH, also
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: about producing, going to auditions, all that good stuff with
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: guests Jenny Paul.
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, it's it's funny because I had sort of
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: a general Instagram for a while and then and then
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: my agent slash manager she said that I needed to
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: go figure out how to kind of do Instagram, and
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: so like, the last couple of months has been me,
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: you know, kind of slowly but surely figuring out how
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: to how to do Instagram as like a concept. So
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: you were actually one of the first people I met
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: and I was like, oh, well, this is perfect now
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: I should always do Instagram, but like figuring out how
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: I to interact with people and like what it means
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: to have followers versus people you're following, and all the
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: sort of weird ins and outs of it.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: So so did your agent like the have you noticed
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: that with a lot of actors. Do agent usually promote
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: actors and actresses? Do they say like, hey, you need
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: to be on social media more?
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: Yep. So I'm I'm a Facebook fanatic and I always
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: have been. I think I think, you know, this is
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: dating me a little bit. I Facebook came out when
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: I was a freshman in college, so that was sort
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: of my that was sort of my you know, entrede
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: to social media. And I'm really good at Facebook, and
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: that's kind of the only thing I ever learned, and
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: then Instagram and Twitter came out and I went, okay, sure,
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: But now especially Instagram is becoming one of the major
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: things that they look for in terms of, you know,
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: having having presence on on the internet. They're not so
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: much Facebook oriented as they used to be, and now
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: Instagram is sort of the thing. So yeah, there there
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: there are a lot of a lot of people that
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: kind of look at Instagram stats in terms of hiring
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: and things like that and influence, influence as it were.
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: You know, Facebook came out the same time because you
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: and I are about the same age, so uh, you
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: know we I was I think a freshman in college
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: too when it came out. I remember when it was
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: just for campuses. Like remember in certain schools only We're
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: getting Facebook, and they would be it be like a
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: big thing when it actually came to your campus.
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: Yep, ours got it pretty early, and that made us
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: feel very smart and special. You know, we were like
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: maybe the tenth or so school and we were like
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: ha ha. And then of course it became very big,
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: very fast, and the IVY leagues were the ones that
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: really got it first, which is kind of crazy. I
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: guess it's not crazy at all, seeing is you know,
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: it's a it's it came from a Harvard grad But
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: but it was really it was kind of even even then,
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: it was such a huge deal and it just got
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: bigger and bigger and bigger.
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so where did you go to college?
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: I went to brand Ice in Boston. It's a tiny
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: school outside of Boston that is known for good academics
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: and it's very large Jewish population, and that which makes
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: people know about Brandise. If everybody knows what it is,
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: they go, oh, yeah, this is that school Jewish say
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: sort of ish. Yeah, it's pretty Jewish, you know.
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: It's it's funny because the school I went to was
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: very very small too, and uh and basically like when
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: they got it, I was like, why on earth would
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: Facebook when I come to this school? And I don't
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: remember what year it was exactly, but I remember I
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: got it, and I was like, what the hell? Like,
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Like it was just it
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: just didn't seem like it would fit any purpose. But
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: then I look back on it now, that's when the school,
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: even though it was small, was actually doing well and
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: now you know, you know what I mean, Like but
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: that I guess you know that that's that's why.
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: What was your school in the Northeast, Yeah, that might
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: have had something to do with it too, I think
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: I think like Boston area got got it first and
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: that kind of thing, So it could it could easily
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: be who knows. I don't know, but I thought it was.
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: I was like one of the first people to jump
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: on board, thinking it was so great, and then realizing
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: that like most people in the country weren't on it.
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: So it was just like, oh, okay.
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah right, it's like, well, there's nobody want to yet
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: that I actually know. It's just people that I go
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: to college with. But so, did you study acting in college?
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: I did. I was acting in high school for fun,
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: and I actually went to college for pre med. So
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: Brandis has a really strong pre med program, and basically
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: when you apply there, you know that if you go
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: there and you finish their pre med that eighty five
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: percent or more of the graduates of that program go
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: to medical school. So that was why I went to
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: Brandie and it just so happened they had a really
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: great theater program and as I'm doing reasonably well in
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: pre med. My parents are doctors, and I sort of
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: hit the point in my second year during organic Chemistry,
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: which I think is like the ultimately worst class in
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: terms of people leading out of pre Med. And I
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: called my dad and I said, you know, I just like,
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: I don't know how you got through twelve years of this.
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: I just you know, this is just really awful. And
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: he said, well, Jenny, I liked it. And I was like, oh, well,
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: there's that. So so I kind of reassessed and I
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: had been taking theater classes to blow off steam effectively,
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: because pre Med was very stressful. In order to keep
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: your you know, your a's, you really had to work
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: really really hard. So I had already sort of mounted
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: half of a theater major by the time I decided
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: that being a doctor maybe wasn't my path. So that's
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: how I ended up sort of doing theaters. That's kind
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: of what I was doing for fun on the side
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: of pre med.
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So you know, it's funny because I actually not
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: going into pre med. It's funny our stories are kind
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: of very similar. But no, no, I'm serious. It was
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: it was odd. I mean, uh but but yeah, you know,
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: when you're in college you kind of want to do
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: a little bit of everything, right, you kind of go,
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: I want to go do this and do that, and
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: you end up going, I don't know why I'm doing
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: any of this stuff, you know. I'm like, it's almost
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: like you're in too deep to quit.
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: At some point, yep, you well, I kind of I
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: kind of would have been maybe given another semester, I
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: would have just done it to do it. But at
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: that point I was like, well, I've got two and
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: a half years left of this plus another eight. I
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: wasn't anywhere close, you know, between medical school and residency
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: and internship and all the things that were coming down
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: the pub like, and I was like, this is just
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: not happening. And but you know the baseline of it.
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: And I don't know if your story is similar. I
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: wanted to work with people. I really love people. I've
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: always really loved people, and getting you know, getting to
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: know people and help people in some regard has always
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: been sort of my path. And my dad, like I said,
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: was a doctor in Dallas, and he's as kind of
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: everybody you know, he's one of those guys that you know,
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: everybody loves doctor Paul kind of thing, and he just
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: he loved it so much and he all the people
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: in his community loved him so much. I just thought, well,
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: you know, dad does really well with this, maybe this
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: is this is for me. And I realized that I
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: can do the same helping of people as it were,
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: and sort of you know, being part of those communities
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: without actually doing it in a way that like wasn't
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: a full interest to me. I like science, but I
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: never really loved it. And like he said, you really
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: loved it, and you really have to love it to
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: go through that for twelve years to just get to
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: the point where you're working you really do.
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very true. So you know, you know, you
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: found out you didn't want to do it, So at
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: what point did you decide to go to with acting
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: full time?
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: It actually took me a few years to get that
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: to that point. I was kind of I had it
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: in my head that acting was like a dumb idea,
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: and that was always how it was. It was. I
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: loved it in high school, but that's what you do
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: in high school, you know. And I loved in you know,
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: in college, but you know, you do stuff in college,
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: you know. And I sort of kind of was going
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: along that way, thinking maybe I'll produce or maybe I'll direct,
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: or maybe.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: I'll We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: Be in business administration in arts capacit year, you know,
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: figure something out in the realm of theater and art
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: that wasn't as you know, quote unquote ridiculous as acting
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: would be. So it actually took me almost the full
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: three years of college to decide that I was meant
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: to do it. I actually had a mentor who was
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: on a show in the seventies that just happened to
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: work at Brandeis tiny school. Again. She was on the
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: show called Knots Landing, which was a big deal, and
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: she had a regular role, and she and I sort
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: of just fell fell in together, you know, out of randomly.
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: She didn't even work for the theater department at all,
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: and she was sort of my mentor through and through
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: the senior year of college when I was sort of
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: she said, you know, she came and saw me plays
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: and things. She's like, so, when are you moving to
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: New York. Then I was like, well, you know, maybe
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: I'm not. I don't really know, and she was like
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: why not. And that was kind of my year of
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: somebody just sort of looking at me and saying, you know,
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: what the heck, why don't you do it? You're good,
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: you clearly have a passion for it, and you know,
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: why don't you try? And I kind of went, well, okay,
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: and it, you know, took me an existential crisis or
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: two to get to that point. So then I started
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: out doing on weekends my senior year of school, and
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: I was auditioning. You know, I had to take the
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: Fung Wah bus for anybody who knows that bus, scariest
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: bus ever that for ten dollars from China Town to Chinatown.
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: And I would audition for whatever, you know, whatever show
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: I could get into be seen for, and I'd go
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: back to school and I booked. I booked Funny Girl
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: before I even graduated. So I moved out to New
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: York to do Funny Girl pretty right away. And so yeah,
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: that's how I ended up here. And I just you know,
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: kept looking for the next job and they kept coming,
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: and that was you know, and then I realize how
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: crazy the businesses of just having to keep pounding the
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: pavement forever and ever and ever and you know, carve
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: out your own space in the universe here. But That's
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: how I ended up here, as basically one foot in
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: front of the other and kind of trusting that maybe
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: this was the right path, even that seemed completely ridiculous.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: And still sometimes, Yeah, you mentioned the Chinatown bus. Before
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: we start talking more about your career and everything, you
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: mentioned the Chinatown bus. I've taken the Chinatown bus as well.
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: I mean, I know what you mean. And sometimes that
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: you're kind of like, is this bus gonna fall apart
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: as we're doing like one thousand miles an hour to
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: the highway?
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: Have you ever been on it where it hasn't like
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: stopped or broken down or made around like I've never
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: I don't think I've had a successful run on that bus.
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: It's so scary. And I remember we're driving one time.
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: We're driving down the h I think it's a ninety
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: five that makes sense, down from Boston to uh New York,
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: and halfway through we passed a fung wah bus like
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: on the side of the road that like actually was
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: on fire, and I was like, oh my god, I can't,
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: I can't even I can't, I can't. And then I
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: just sort of like took a deep breath and like
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: pretended like I didn't see it and just kept going,
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: and I was like, you know what, they can't it
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: off the bus now, it's too late. And then, of course,
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: you know, five or six years later, it's eighty five
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: thousand options, thank god, but then not so much. The
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: bus that was the that was the ten dollars I'm gonna,
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: you know, save money and be a college student and
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: hope I don't die bus.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I h the craziest story that I ever
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: heard about that friend of mine was taking that bus
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: and the driver was just going, you know, maybe one
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: hundred and some on miles an hour or whatever, just
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: flying speeding down the down on ninety five because this
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: was Philly to New York. So what he did was,
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: he said they ended up being getting like pulled over,
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: and there was so many violations with the bus. Uh
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: they were like, we got we can't actually let you
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: keep going with this.
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: Uh that's hilarious. Yeah, yeah, exactly right.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah. He was like, well, he goes, I made this
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: decision to take this. So now whenever I go to
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: New York, I always take the Bolt bus. It's it's
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: kind of the same price, but at least it's you know,
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: I don't feel like, you know, we're gonna burst into
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: flames like your story.
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, absolutely not, and it just did. The bullt
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: bus wasn't around then. I mean, you know, it wasn't
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: like a ton and it wasn't a million years ago.
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: But that was the only one then. I think Megabus
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: and Bolt came around, and now there's like a whole
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: bunch of there's a whole bunch of different ones that go.
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: But then that was there weren't that many options. I
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: think it was like Greyhound and the fun Law.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the bar was so low that they could just
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: come in and take all the business.
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, and Greyhound is you know, I'm sorry Greyhound,
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: but it's a really not great company either. But at
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: least they don't blow their buses up like that's just
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: they're just you know, you if you go to port
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: authority here even now, and you're on a Greyhound bus
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: and you get there half an hour early, there's no
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: guarantee you're on the bus with your ticket, because they
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: like they'll let the people that missed the six a
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: m bus on and then the ones that missed the
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: five am bus ahead of them, and so if you're
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: you're on that bus and you're not there, you know,
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: an hour ahead. Good luck. So megabus and boat bus, Yeah,
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: two thumbs up. Yes, definitely take those no no, no
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: experiences that I've heard of nor had on either one
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: of those buses that weren't just like riding a bus
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: and getting there.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So when once you finally made it to New York,
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: you know, without you know, just bursting into flames of
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: the car falling or the bus falling apart, you know
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: you actually got you got your first role. So you know,
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: take us into that. You know, how did you know again,
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: I know you touched on it just a couple minutes ago,
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: but you know what was what was the audition process like?
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: And when you finally got to New York? You know
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: what what was that whole experience like?
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: Well, I didn't I didn't book the first thing off
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: the bus, not at all. I was doing it every
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: weekend as many auditions as I could, you know, get
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: into be seen. So the first big event that happened
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: was I was in for the Producer's national tour and
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: I and I still sing, but I sung a lot
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: more than I was, more musicals than plays and other things.
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: So then I was mostly my affer musicals because that's
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: sort of the world that I knew pretty well. So
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: I had been in for the Producer's national tour, and
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: if you know the producers at all, they have a
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: whole chorus of little old ladies as it were, that
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: dance in the middle. There's an act break called along
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: came Biali, and so in the musical there are three
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: little old ladies that our casts, and they're usually not
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: actual little old ladies. They're like people you know in
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: their thirties or forties that dress up like little old
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: ladies because they have to dance a lot. So my
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: first big thing here was actually I was in callbacks
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: for the national tour and I sort of kind of
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: threw caution into the wind a little bit and sang
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: a song kind of from from the show Spam a
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: Lot that was popular right around then. But I changed
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: all the lyrics to match the producers sort of little
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: old lady mentality, which I was very scared to do
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: because you know, they always tell you, like, don't do
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: anything too crazy in the room, otherwise they're gonna look
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: at you go like you have five pick heads. But
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: sometimes you know it's the right thing and you do it,
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: and you just hope that they that they play along
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: with you. So I sang a song from spam a lot.
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: It's called where Are You? And I basically chewed the
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: scenery and for anybody who doesn't know that term, like
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: basically like was a complete goofball in the room. And
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: I got called back for the national tour and I
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: didn't end up booking it, but that was my first
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: big Okay, I'm in New York. I got taken seriously
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: by somebody, you know, maybe I have a shot at
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: actually doing some of this stuff. And then a few
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: weeks later I came into auditioned for Funny Girl. And
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: I had done Funny Girl in high school, so I
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: had a particularly good relationship with that show because it
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: was I played the Fanny Brice's mother in the high
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: school production, and it was one of the first shows
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: that I had like a major role in and that
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: I really knew that I really dug into and really
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: got behind the character and really sort of found my own,
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: you know, artistic voice in rather than just being in
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: the play. I could really make interesting decisions and kind
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: of get behind the character in a real way. So
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: what happened with Funny Girl. Here is I assume that
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: I would be auditioning for like a chorus part or
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: for even maybe an understudy for Fanny, because I'm I,
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: you know, was the right age. Fanny is usually between
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: I would say twenty and forty, so she gets older
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: during the show. So really, anybody in that age range
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: can play it. And you know, I thought I was
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: just kind of taking a shout in the dark for
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: a chorus part. And they saw that on my resume
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: that I had played the mother, and they asked me
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: if I could sing the mother song and I said sure.
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: You know, I kind of went, okay, sure, you know,
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: I'm not going to get cast as a six year
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: old woman. It's not happening. So I sang this song
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: called who Taught Her Everything She Knows? Which is the
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: Mother's like, you know, big moment in the show. And
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: then I was changing out of my clothes to go
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: get back on the bus, as I had been every
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: weekend for the last couple of months, and they actually
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: caught me in the hall. They pulled me aside and
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: they said, actually, can you come back? And I said sure,
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: so I had already changed, which was kind of awkward.
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: And they were like, wow, you're quick, and I was like,
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: you know, theater.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: So I came back in in my jeans instead of
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: the dress that I actually showed up in and ended
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: up singing a few songs through for them. And what
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: it turned out they were doing is it wasn't It
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: was a fully staged production, but it was more of
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: a concert version of Funny Girl. And because of that,
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: they didn't really have any problem casting a weird anything.
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: And they were scrambling for a mother and they asked
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: me to play the mother, and so that was my
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: first New York experience was playing the mother of somebody
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: that won a Tony the year I was born. So
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: that's the line I like to say. So basically, the
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: woman who played Fan won a Tony for a show
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: called Jerome Robbins Broadway. Gaddy Grabt was her name the
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: year I was born. So that was my first big
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: New York experience and I thought to myself, I was like, well,
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: this is weird, and then but you know, job's a job.
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: And I loved the role and I loved the show
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: and I had no problem with it, and I thought
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: it was awesome. And then after the fact, they actually
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: switched director's mid run. The director that took over for
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: the original director actually brought me in for the mother again,
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: like for a Broadway House or for Westchester Broadway. He
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: called me in to play the mother and I was like, huh, interesting.
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: You're being typecast already.
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: Typecast is the sixty five, you know, sixty to seven
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: year old mother of Fanny Braid. I did not get
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: at that time, and I was not expecting to, but
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: I thought, I thought that was crazy. But you know,
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: I guess you know, makeup in theater you can kind
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: of do anything to some degree. I mean, I hope
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: that people weren't like, what is this girl doing this?
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: But you know, they had me in plenty of makeup,
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: in a wig and whatever, so what the hell. So yeah,
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: That's how I made it to New York Is. I
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: just kept auditioning for everything anything I could get my
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: hands on, anybody that would see me my senior year
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: of college and I basically just carved out every single
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: weekend to do it. And so I moved here to
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: start rehearsals for Funny Girl, and I booked a show
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: the day I moved here, a different show down at
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: the thirteenth Street Repertory Theater, which is which the woman
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: is now I think one hundred and two. Then she
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: was in was ninety. The woman that cast me was ninety.
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: I last I checked, she's still alive. I went to
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: visit her a few weeks ago, and her son was there,
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: since her name was Edith O'Hara and her son's named
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: Jack O'Hara, and I ran into her son and they
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: were moving her from her house to a home of
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: some sort, so I wasn't able to see her. But
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: I'm pretty sure she's still alive. Last time I saw her,
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: she was pretty with it and we took a selfie
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: together and she was ninety nine, and apparently that was
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: her first selfie.
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: What do you think the secret was? It is to
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: for her you know that longevity. You know, he's still
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: being able to do what you love. You know at
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: that you know the age of ninety.
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: Oh man, she was so brilliantly stubborn, that woman, like
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: in the best possible way. So her daughters are are
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: a couple of them are pretty famous. I think her daughter,
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: Jenny O'Hara is was the mom on the King of
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: Queen's and her daughter Jill O'Hara was the original cast
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: of Promises Promises, and she sang that song what do
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: You Get When You Fall in Love? That one, and
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: she sang it originally Bert backer at song. So her
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: kids did really well too. And I think her son,
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: Jack is a musician, a pretty pretty good one, if
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: I recall. So, I don't know. I think she just lived,
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: you know, she was here and she was really passionate
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: about everything. So she was you know, she was fixing blocking.
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: She was like moving herself to go fix blocking on
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: stage for a play that I was in with her.
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: That was the one that I did just after Funny Girl,
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: and she if she didn't like something, she just moved.
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: She got up and she said, no, no, no, not this way.
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: I want it this way. And she had, if I
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: remember correctly, she had macular degeneration. And she still every
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: day would you know, get up and go to rehearsal
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: and you know, and make make sure the show look
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: like she wanted it to look. So yeah, I don't know.
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: I think. I mean, she was a pistol, so maybe
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: that's the key. To life is just having you know,
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: passion and energy for everything. I don't know, I'll find out.
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: I'll let you know. And another sixty.
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: Four years, please do please please share if I'm even
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: if I if I make it to thirty five, it'll
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: be a miracle.
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: Right, That's kind of how I feel. I'm like, you know,
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: I'm going through. I mean, life is good, but you
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: know you feel yourself getting older. You're like, okay, this,
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: this hurts the distant used to hurt you know, this
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: kind of thing, and you Okay, Well, I hope I
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: hope it. I hope it holds out a while. That
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: would be good. You know.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: I always say to people, I'm kind of like the
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: guy you should shouldn't ask about. You know, you're only
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: as old as you feel. Because I perpetually feel like
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: I'm ninety nine years old. So that's why I mean,
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: so with Edith, I was hoping to get some tips
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: because I mentally and physically I'm ninety nine years old.
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: I don't know if I'm ninety nine, but I think
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: I think like solid eighties. That's where I think. I
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: I just you know, like I just like you know,
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: I wake up and I go Okay, today's happening. Cool,
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: let's move on.
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: But you're in your eighties. At least you know what
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: a selfie is though, that's the best important thing.
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: Do you know what selfie is? I very much know
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: a selfie is, although I very much disapprove of the
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: duck face. Yeah, I will say, yeah, the duck face
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: just ridiculous on everybody. I'm sorry, I guess.
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's it's passe. I once got into an
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: argument with somebody at their wedding because they accused me
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: of making the duck face, and I said, I never
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: would make that face. What are you talking about? And
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: you know, it was like a photograph of me in
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: front of a car, and everyone's like, oh, I think
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: you know, I think you didn't make the duck face.
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: Was like, no, I didn't. Come on, why would I
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: make a duck face?
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: So maybe you caught me in a duck like scenario.
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: Possibly the only the only duck face you'll ever catch
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: me making is with the two pringles. That that duck.
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: Face approval, Yeah, yeah, I remember that. I remember those
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: commercials where.
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: You put the pringles on top of each other and
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: you get a beak. That's a duck face.
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember those commercials so uh for
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: everyone listening, you know, we were like, why the hell
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: they talking about Pringles now? But uh, you know it's uh,
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: it's all good. It's I just want to get back
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: Jenny to talk about your career. Uh, you know, because
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: I actually looked at your IMDb and I was like, wow,
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: you know, she's had a you know, pretty interesting career
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: because you not only have one foot in acting and
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: one foot and uh and producing. But uh, when did
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: you say you were on in theater? You're on the stage.
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: You know, when did you start to make that transition
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: to film?
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: Oh? Great question, I I think around. I mean I
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: was always sort of predisposed to it. My my my
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: acting style was always a little bit on the more
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: natural side, even in theater, and I always had to
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: sort of push to make it energetic enough to fill
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: a stage. And that was always something that I that
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: I naturally, if I got to choose for myself, I
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: wouldn't have done. But I also knew that that's what
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: the medium required. So I guess maybe four or five
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: years ago I started doing film and stuff, and it
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: again felt more natural to me that I love theater
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: and it's a totally different beast and I do it
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: all the time still still, but just kind of being
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: able to kind of talk and do things at a
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: level that made sense to me in my life. And
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: you know, and I always think of good storytelling as
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: revealing truths and you know, allowing an audience member to
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: sort of feel what you're feeling to some degree and
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: not to feel alone in their feelings. And so to me,
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: film and television at its best really is that same
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: nuanced thing as being a humanist. So if you can
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: look at something and recognize it as real, then inevitably
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: you're going to be able to relate to it more.
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: And that's the thing about and again it's all about
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: it has to be good. It's not you know, it
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: has to be good writing, it has to be good
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: production value has to be everything else. But it's the
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: closest thing I think we have as a society. As
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: an actor anyway, and maybe even in storytelling, it's it's
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: arguable but that that that mimics life the most closely,
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: and I think that's what's really attracted to me. So
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: maybe the answer is four five years ago I started
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: doing a lot of small films and and web series
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: things like that, and then and then in the last
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: few years that sort of has more from you know,
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: little things into your things. And that's sort of how
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: my trajectory was in theater as well as you know,
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: everything was regional houses and things like that when I
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: first started, and then and then you know, I would
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: be playing leads in in in the regional houses, and
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: that's around the time I started transitioning into into film
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: and TV. Also, the pressure, you know, it's it's different.
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: I would say it's a little less in film and
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: television because you can always get another take.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: That being said, you know, it's an interesting there there's
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: a lot of differences. But I think that's the answer
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: to your question. Then, and and I really, you know,
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: I really love both of them for different reasons.
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know, and just working with different actors,
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: you know, even some of whom were like I actually
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: was working with them in their first film project. You know,
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: they they noticed that it was a little bit different
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: because you can do multiple takes. You know, there really
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: isn't an audience except for maybe the director and if
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: you want to count the crew and anybody else, you know,
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: like maybe some of the cast watching the scene. But
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean that you do get multiple takes,
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean, And you do get the
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: ability to change, you know, change, you know, making a change,
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: you know, like an acting and you say making a
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: change or you know, and it actually it does take
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: off a lot of that that that pressure sometimes.
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I mean it really does in certain ways.
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: And like I said, they're just kind of different one
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: of them, you know. I think any any really good
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: actor will tell you that the rehearsal process is where
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: a lot of the major creativity happens on stage and
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: on film. It's always a rehearsal process. They're just taping
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: the rehearsal, so you're learning, you know, you're you're learning
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: and discovery as they're taping it versus doing you know,
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: night I would say ninety percent of your learning and
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: discovery and rehearsal bringing it to the show at ninety percent,
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: and then finding the nuance as you run the show.
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: And so it's you know, it's just it's a different
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: playground as it were. But I really, I really do
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: enjoy it, and I am. You know, not having the
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: pressure on does make a big difference in some regards, because,
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: especially when you're coming up in the business, you want
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: to make sure that you know that you give your
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: absolute best, and a lot of times your absolute best
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: doesn't necessarily need to come with an entire you know,
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: truckload of adrenaline as it were. Yeah, and that's kind
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: of you know, that's kind of what happens when you're
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: when you're newer to things and you know, when you're
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: trying to sort of figure it all out.
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know that's what we all do too. Sometimes,
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: you know, you just kind of gotta sometimes you jump
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: into things, and you know, sometimes you end up taking
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: things too seriously, you know what I mean. And what
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: I mean by that is, you know, you want to
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: be serious about it because obviously this is your craft,
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: this is your passion. But sometimes if you know, and
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: this has happened, you know, to tell the people if
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: I'm on the podcast as well, where you know, they
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: kind of lose sight of that, you know, this was
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: supposed to be fun or what was the original idea
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: behind this, because they end up you just sort of
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: get lost in a cycle, you know what I mean
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: of like you know and then you then you get
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: the you and I know you've probably met people like
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: this too, where you get people where they're not they're
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: not able to sort of function unless like everything's collapsing
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: around them, you know what I mean.
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I know those people. I might have been one
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: of those people in college. You know. It's the idea
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: of like you can't do the essay until the last
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: possible second, and then you put out a brilliant essay
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: and you realize that if you just had another day
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: to edit it that it would have been that much better.
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it's like everything's always last minute, Like everything's
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: a disaster. Oh my god, what are we going to do?
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: Exactly? You know. I mean there's a lot of that
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: mixed into this business. As it is. The more that
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: you know as a as an artist, the more that
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: you can do without that, you know, then you have
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: the energy reserves for the times where you really needed Yeah.
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so so you know, so just go going along
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: with your career. Jenny, you got to appear on Jessica
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: Jones and that's something I saw on your IMDb as well.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: So when you appear on that shows. You know, did
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: you just go to the did you go to an audition,
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: did you get you know, did somebody reach out to
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: you for the part?
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: Oh? No, So so most things, For the most part,
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: most television and film, unless you're Meryl Streep or somebody
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: really important in the industry, is auditions. Everything is, and
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: a lot of times the little audition you, even if
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: they already want you, because they want to make sure
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: you're the right fit for that role. So no, Actually
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: that was the second time I was in that casting office.
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: The first time, I believe I was in for The Defenders.
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: Although they audition you for things, they actually use code
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: names for everything. I think they want to make sure
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: that you're not leaking information all over the place. So
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: I'm pretty sure it was the Defenders. And I went
• 34:34
  Speaker 4: in and auditioned for something and didn't hear back, and
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: then I called back in a few weeks later for
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: this one, and I actually the role was for fangirl
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: so that's not quite the role that I ended up in,
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: and I actually think they rewrote it between times that
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: I auditioned and the time that I shot it. But
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: the role was for fangirls. So I came in in
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: my my I have one one Marvel sweatshirt that I
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: got from running the half marathon in LA, the Disney
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: half Marathon, the one marathon that I ever ran for
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: any reason. Won't do it again, probably it was just
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: a big but so I have the jacket that says
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: the Avengers on the back. So I wore that, and
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: I wore some like kind of my goofy or like
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: ear rings and stuff. And I came in as full
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: fangirl to the audition. So yeah, that's what I remember
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: that audition is. I just had a lot of fun
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: with it. I came in and I was like completely
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: sycophantic and I was, you know, played with a full
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: on fangirl for that for that piece. And then I
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: got a call, I think that the next day to put
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: me on hold for that and then I found out
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: a week later that I got the role. Actually, so
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: it was really fun that casting offices. They're really nice
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: and they're really a generous bunch of people, and so
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: it was absolutely a pleasure and it was very easy
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: and quick, and you know, I went in and I
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: did making and I got a call, you know, and
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: I and I don't go in and do my thing
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: all the time for lots of people. But it was
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: there was nothing you know, overwhelming about it in any way.
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: It was just like, oh, you know, she asked me,
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: would you like to be on a Netflix show, you know,
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: on the marketing Netflix Marvel show, and I said absolutely yes.
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: And I didn't actually find out until I got to
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: set that it was Jessica Jones. I had no clue.
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: So that was kind of fun finding out that it
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: was Jessica Jones because I knew from just watching the
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: shows and from from the that that that was one
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: of the more popular ones. So it was cool that
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: it was that one because I really had no idea
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: as far as I knew that they were going to
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: create five more shows and this was one of them.
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know in Marvel, uh you know, and all
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: the other comic book you know properties uh you know
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: Marvel DC making all their you know, all these TV
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: shows and movies.
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: It's I've had other people in the podcast just talking about,
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: you know, all the content being made by you know,
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: existing properties right now, you know what I mean, It's
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: just uh, you know, one movie right now as we're
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: as we're recording this as black Panther. Uh, you know,
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: it's just a I'm sorry, I.
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: Said, yep, I was gonna say, I've heard amazing things
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: about the movie.
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: You know what, I'm gonna admit, I'm actually uh superhero
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: movie out. I had friends wanted to take me see
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: thor Ragnarok, and I'm like, I just I can't. I
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: just can't do it.
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: It's fair, It's really fair. There's so many and that's
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: really it's really dominating the movie scene to some degree.
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: So it's like, you know, which superherovie you can see today?
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but but no, you know, and some of them
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: are you know, are actually you know, I think going
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: into Netflix and making something episodic is actually more beneficial
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: because I think you can you can you can tell
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: it a different way. And I think sometimes with the movies,
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: I always feel like I always say to people, are
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: just a set up to the next movie, which I
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: understand what they what they're doing. And believe me, I'm
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: not one of these cynical people. But I'm just saying
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: it's just like almost like they have a great idea
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: for a story, but somebody goes, no, no, no, that'll
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: be the sequel, this is going to be the you
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: know what I mean, Like I just think that type
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: of you.
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: Know, I totally get it too. And and you know,
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: it's the concept of like, you know, as a viewer
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: to some degree that you're being marketed to, but also
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: like the stories usually are pretty freaking good, so you
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: want to enjoy what they do have. Yeah, I totally
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: get this.
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: So so you know, and just to go back to
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: my question about you know, just about you know, how
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: we got cast in Jessica Jones, I just I was
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: just you know, basically asking, you know, I know, you
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: know actress have good auditions and stuff like that. I
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: I what I meant to say was just about your network.
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: I thought maybe you know, just me and different people,
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: like you know, Jenny, somebody may have said, hey, I
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: know this girl, she does you know, she's good, great
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: at this, and you got a phone call to come
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: down for the auditions. What I meant was what I
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: was trying to say, because like sometimes you know that
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: that's happened, you know, where people have called in or
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: people have called people and said, hey, look, you know
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: I know that there's a hey, you're looking for a
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: specific looking person who's a huge fangirl. I know a
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: person name's Jenny Paul, not this one, I.
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: Don't think, but it's happened before. I would say that
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: the big network ones, they're usually auditions, and it's usually
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: kind of the same story where you go in and
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: you got a script a day or two before, maybe
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: three days before, and you you know, you kind of
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: get to know it, and you do your audition and
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: you go home. But for the smaller stuff, for the
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: you know, for for web series that are more kind
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: of indie and doing films and indie films and anything
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: that's sort of on the middle scale of a money budget,
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: that happens all the time. I get calls all the
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: time to do things. I'm doing. What I'm doing a pilot.
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: I'm reading a puppet pilot next week that I'm real
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: excited about. And the person that invited me to do it,
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: there's a writing teape and one of the writers work
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: with me on a show.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: So we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: A year ago version of a Christmas Carol that we
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: did in Brooklyn for a couple of nights, and the
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: other one directed one of the web series that I
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: was in a few years ago, and they thought of me.
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: They both knew me, and they both knew the work.
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: So a lot of especially on the development level and
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: on the sort of mid budget level, a lot of
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: it is you know, you get a call, so yeah,
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: absolutely knowing people. And New York is a big small
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: town as it were, in terms of this business. So
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: knowing people is essential for all of the sort of
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: miscellaneous jobs, and even with the big jobs. My manager
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: has you know, my manager and my agent have to
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: know me in order to put me up for a thing.
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: So there's there's a barrier to entry to some degree
• 40:56
  Speaker 4: to even get in the room to be seen for
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: a Coast Sicka Jones or a regular on the Looming Tower.
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: Somebody has to know your work to the point where
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: you're able to audition for those things.
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, very true. And you mentioned the Looming Tower.
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: But I just wanted to before before we get into
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: the Looming Tower and and just discussing that project. I
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: know you you actually have produced too, uh so I
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: wanted to ask, you know, well, how did you get
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: into into producing, because I think it's a great idea
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: for actors by the way, especially actors, meaning because I
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: think you know, once they they become more Basically, you know,
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: if you wanted to make something and you put you know,
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: not only just put yourself into it, but also you
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: have a pool of actor friends obviously, right, so you
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: know what I mean, Like if you if you were
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: going to make something, you already say like again, like
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: we were just talking about, Hey, I have I have actors.
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: I know actors, and I think that's why I always say, like,
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: you know, producing is a very good skill for for
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: anyone to have, but particularly actors. So you know what
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: what you know got you into actual you know, deciding
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: to go behind the camera to produce, right.
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: Well, hearkening back to feeling like I'm making a dumb decision.
• 42:05
  Speaker 5: In college, I was always sort of producing things, whether
• 42:10
  Speaker 5: it was you know, shows in college or I founded
• 42:15
  Speaker 5: this thing at my school called the twenty four hour
• 42:17
  Speaker 5: Musical that's now become like their tradition.
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: And I certainly had no intention of doing that, nor
• 42:23
  Speaker 4: did I know that it was going to be such
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: a big hit. But it was all about creating my
• 42:27
  Speaker 4: own opportunities. And back in high school, I was I
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: was in the Robotics club because one of my best
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: friends was there and I was the only girl in
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: the club except for my friend, and I ended up
• 42:47
  Speaker 4: basically doing all the fundraising and effectively what I would doing,
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: you know, national robot competition. So it's the stuff that's
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: like been you know, I've been doing forever. And I
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: realized that, you know, it's just a combination of sort
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: of creative event planning as it were, So really all
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: producing takes is you know, I go say all but
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: it's a lot of hard work, but it's also just
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: being resourceful and kind of creative. And I think most actors,
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: as you say, most actors have that in spades, at
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: least really good ones they have. You know, most of
• 43:21
  Speaker 4: these people are super resourceful and they're people. They're people
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: pee people. And that's a huge part of it is
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: that you don't really go into acting if you don't
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: like people, because you spend your days, you know, kind
• 43:33
  Speaker 4: of learning the psychology of people. That's what acting is.
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: That it's cool. So most people that fall into that,
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: unless they really really like attention, tend to be people
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: that you know, collaborating with others to get something done
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: in a cooler creative way. So I think you have
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: the right. It's a great place for actors, especially actors
• 43:58
  Speaker 4: with a business head, because there's just you know, there's
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: tons of there's tons of opportunities in producing, and they
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: create tons more opportunities for artists across the board, not
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: just actors. But no, I fell into it because acting
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: is not a full time job. Even when you have
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: a full time job acting, this year, I made a
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: full salary as an actor and I probably worked I
• 44:25
  Speaker 4: don't know, maybe thirty days this year maybe, So there's
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: just a lot of downtime. You know, I'm in auditions
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: maybe once or twice a week, if you know, more
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: if it's pilot season less, if it's you know, a
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: slower season, and you just have a lot of time
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: on your hands. So why not create? You know, I'm
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: kind of chomping at the bit to do that, So
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: why not do it? You know, do it in a
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: way that that you know, I'm creating my own projects
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: while I'm waiting for the next the next big acting
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: product to come along.
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: So so, you know, as you got into producing, you know,
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: what were some of the biggest challenges, Like what was
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: the biggest challenge that you've ever faced as a producer.
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: The biggest challenges are always money, always finding money, you know,
• 45:14
  Speaker 4: funding the things, budgeting the things. But aside from that,
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: I would say the biggest actual data to day challenge
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: for me, if you're not if I'm not you know,
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: looking for money for a show is is when when
• 45:31
  Speaker 4: somebody doesn't want to be a team player, it's really
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: hard to to do the work as best as possible.
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: So I, you know, now with a lot of experience,
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: I try to hire to write people from the get go,
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: people that I know that will work together and that'll
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: that will you know, team up to make the best
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: possible art that they that they can make as a team.
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: But inevitably there's always a couple of people that are
• 45:58
  Speaker 4: in cruise or cast that don't that that you know,
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: kind of sabotage efforts inside, and that's kind of that
• 46:06
  Speaker 4: probably is my biggest challenges a producers is spotting that
• 46:11
  Speaker 4: really fast and making sure one that the morale of
• 46:15
  Speaker 4: the project is really solid and strong and that everybody's
• 46:18
  Speaker 4: going in with a good attitude as much as possible,
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: but also just making sure that you know the that
• 46:25
  Speaker 4: the the the priorities of one don't don't take away
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: from the creative process of the many. And that's a
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: little vague, but that is actually kind of the hardest
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: thing that I deal with on a day to day
• 46:38
  Speaker 4: is is people that don't have the best interest of
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: the project in mind trying to make trouble drama as
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: it were.
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, unfortunately, I you know, I I've encountered them myself.
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: And uh, you know, we I I've heard some horror
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: stories in this podcast. You know, you when you when
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: you have somebody who shows up to set and just basically,
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: for one reason or another, doesn't want to sort of
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: you know, play the game, so to speak. They don't
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: want to, you know, they just want to sort of
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: cause trouble. And I have a friend of mine, Jenny,
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: and and not to distract from your story, but I
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: have a friend of mine I'm trying to get on
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: this podcast, and he had one of the craziest stories
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: about somebody like that. And I'll tell what I'll give you.
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: I'll give you just a sample of the story. Basically,
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: this person was an actor on The Sopranos and basically
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: was angry at him for not being able to destroy
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: the project. And that's all I'm gonna say, So that's my.
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: Wow. Wow, wow, that's a lot. Yeah, it's it's happens
• 47:51
  Speaker 4: all the time, and you know, it's this interesting thing,
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: and you know, this is kind of my theory, and
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: you know it's maybe it's a good theory, maybe it's
• 47:59
  Speaker 4: not a good theory. But I would say eighty to
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: ninety percent of the people that come into this business
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: are the most collaborative, empathetic, wonderful people that you'll ever
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: meet in your life. And they are attractors of the
• 48:11
  Speaker 4: arts because they had some sort of life trauma or
• 48:14
  Speaker 4: they really they needed to be there. It was it
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: was a compulsion in some way, and they realized that
• 48:19
  Speaker 4: telling stories is the way to get other people to
• 48:22
  Speaker 4: not feel alone in the world. And you know, and
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: they something resonated with them and it became really important
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: for them to do this as a you know, as
• 48:33
  Speaker 4: a career or as a choice in their life. And
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: the other handful of people are super, for lack of
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: a better word, narcissistic, and they go into it because
• 48:45
  Speaker 4: they're seeking attention, and inevitably, in something like acting or
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: even in production, but more acting, I would say, inevitably,
• 48:56
  Speaker 4: you're going to have a handful of people, because acting
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: is such a surefire way to get that tension if
• 49:02
  Speaker 4: you can succeed at it. So we find a lot
• 49:05
  Speaker 4: of people that are scattered around that do this stuff,
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: and it's not because maybe they're even intending to do it,
• 49:11
  Speaker 4: it's because, you know, that's how they are, so they
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: you know, and I really truly believe that that producing,
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: but also acting and just art in general is very
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: much a collaborative sport, as it were, and it's really
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: hard to get the best possible art made when somebody
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: is not working towards the better good of the art,
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: when they're working toward the better good of them, as
• 49:35
  Speaker 4: it were, or you know, whatever other priorities they have
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: on the table. So yeah, I'm not super surprised to
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: hear your many vague story about the Sopranos, but I've
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: heard things like that, and you know what, things do
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: get killed that way. I had a project that I
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: worked on with somebody and I found out six months
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: later that they had fully developed it without talking to
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: me about it.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 50:14
  Speaker 4: And yeah, I called the production company that bought the
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: rights to that project and said, hey, what gives and
• 50:22
  Speaker 4: I didn't, you know, we didn't even get that far,
• 50:25
  Speaker 4: and it scared him enough to kill the project. And
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: you know, and I didn't even intended that was at
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: tension at all. I just called to say, like, hey,
• 50:33
  Speaker 4: I was the co conceiver on this project, like, and
• 50:38
  Speaker 4: you kind of knew that, so so why'd you buy
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: this product from somebody who didn't own it? You know?
• 50:47
  Speaker 4: And then I kind of just said like and you know,
• 50:49
  Speaker 4: immediately he was like, oh my god, Oh my god,
• 50:51
  Speaker 4: Oh my god. And then the next thing, I know,
• 50:52
  Speaker 4: they just instead of dealing with me or whatever I
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: could have theoretically brought to the table, they just decided
• 50:58
  Speaker 4: to help with it and they done the project. So
• 51:01
  Speaker 4: it does happen. You know, stuff happens. It's nuts. It's
• 51:05
  Speaker 4: a nutsy business and people get crazy and desperate and
• 51:08
  Speaker 4: all sorts of stuff.
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And the reason you know, I told that stories,
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: I didn't want to give away all the details because
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: I want my friend to tell it because I I
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: it's such a because he had because like, you know,
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: you know what it was, Jenny. He was telling me
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: the story one day we had gotten lunch, and he
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: does a lot of work. He does, he's a lot
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: of does a lot of cinematography. He's actually a cinematographer. Right,
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: So what happens is, you know, he's you know, we're
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: just going back and forth. You know, we're at one
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: of those you know, the eight thousand pizza places in Philadelphia,
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: and uh, you know, we're just sitting there. He said
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: to me, he was just tell me the story out
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: of nowhere. And I'm like, what that happened? And then
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: then this guy joined the project. Then that happened, and
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: then then you got this location from the then that happened.
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: And then by the end he was like, it all
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: came out. I mean, this story. I really got to
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: get him on here. I I I don't want to
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: tell it because I want him to tell it because
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: it's his story. But by the end I was like,
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: I was like, did anybody get arrested for this? Or
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: did anybody get in trouble? And and he goes, he goes, well,
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: you know, I'm gonna let him tell that. I'm I'm
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: gonna leave it on a cliffhanger a lot like a
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: lot like a Marvel movie. I'm setting up for the secret.
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: But but no, no, I you know, I had my
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: own story too, Jenny, with somebody you know who was
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: just uh more or less. They came on the project,
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: was interested. Uh And then all of a sudden, as
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: soon as you know that, that m word money got
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: thrown around, even though it's not a lot, It's like,
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: oh my god, now it's my project and you're gonna
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: screw it up. So now I got to take over,
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: Like whoa pump the brakes. Let's just pump the brakes here,
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 52:41
  Speaker 4: Also, I think people have a miss miss misunderstanding about
• 52:47
  Speaker 4: money in this business. It's hard to make money in
• 52:49
  Speaker 4: this business. Like a lot of people do these things
• 52:53
  Speaker 4: on on spec or on you know low So even
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: even if a project gets a lot of play, you know,
• 53:00
  Speaker 4: on a mid level, it's still probably not making money.
• 53:03
  Speaker 4: And you know, I remember my very first short film
• 53:06
  Speaker 4: that I made and I put it on. It got
• 53:08
  Speaker 4: a distribution platform and everything else that I put it on,
• 53:11
  Speaker 4: and I got my first royalty check and it was
• 53:13
  Speaker 4: for a grand total of Dad, Dadada forty seven cents.
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: Nice work, Jenny, I forty seven cents.
• 53:22
  Speaker 4: And you know what I couldn't have been happier about it,
• 53:24
  Speaker 4: because frankly, that film wasn't gonna big money. It never was,
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: you know, So it's sort of like that's you know
• 53:30
  Speaker 4: a lot of people. You know. That's another thing about
• 53:35
  Speaker 4: the business is that there's just no money in the
• 53:36
  Speaker 4: business unless you hit a certain level of work. You know,
• 53:40
  Speaker 4: unless you're working for a network, or unless you you know,
• 53:43
  Speaker 4: you have a sponsor, you have an advertiser, or you
• 53:45
  Speaker 4: you know, something, really they don't. You know, a lot
• 53:48
  Speaker 4: of the work that people are making nowadays just doesn't
• 53:50
  Speaker 4: make money. And I heard your podcast last week and
• 53:54
  Speaker 4: you're talking about you know, a lot of this. Everybody
• 53:57
  Speaker 4: can make a movie now, so that you know, you
• 54:00
  Speaker 4: were talking about that with Lloyd and you know, everybody
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: can make everybody can make a movie. So because everybody
• 54:08
  Speaker 4: can make a movie, there's there's tons of stuff out
• 54:11
  Speaker 4: there that just doesn't have anything, you know, any profitability.
• 54:17
  Speaker 4: It has. It's good creatively, but it's not necessarily making money.
• 54:20
  Speaker 4: So there's it's not like you know, everybody's champion the
• 54:22
  Speaker 4: bit to like make part of my forty seven it.
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right, it's uh, the more I mean, because if
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: you're going to make a movie and I and I've
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: you know, gone over this before too with different guests. Now,
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: I always say there's no harm, honestly, and just making
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: a short film or or what have you, or a
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: trailer and then just putting it on YouTube and just
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: you know, making sure you seo the hell out of it,
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: and then just saying, however, the chips lie, that's how
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: they lie. Because I think that's healthier and better for
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: a lot of people than getting this obsession about oh,
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: we got to go to Sundance with this thing, and
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: or like yo, hey, this thing's going to be sold
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: to Marvel for eight million dollars, you know what I mean.
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: I think that that that that that mindset really starts
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: to hinder people after a while, after well after a while,
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: after a short time too.
• 55:12
  Speaker 4: Right, And it doesn't I mean, you know, at best
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: some of it. Like you know, we're seeing feature films
• 55:19
  Speaker 4: make less and less and less sore, these huge as
• 55:22
  Speaker 4: it was we're talking about it, these huge superhero movies.
• 55:26
  Speaker 4: You know, the movie that we you know, we used
• 55:28
  Speaker 4: to go see in the theaters, like The Sister Act
• 55:31
  Speaker 4: or whatever in the nineties, doesn't it doesn't exist anymore.
• 55:34
  Speaker 4: If it does, it's on the it's on the indie scale.
• 55:36
  Speaker 4: It's not what we're going to pay, you know, fifteen
• 55:39
  Speaker 4: dollars in the movie theater to see. So these these
• 55:42
  Speaker 4: films that used to actually make some money because they
• 55:45
  Speaker 4: were what was available, don't necessarily make money. They have
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: they have you know, a bit of distribution internationally, and
• 55:53
  Speaker 4: maybe they have some domestic distribution, but it's not like
• 55:55
  Speaker 4: a big money maybe and people think, oh, I'm gonna,
• 55:58
  Speaker 4: you know, do a film and I'm gonna to make
• 56:00
  Speaker 4: a million bucks, and it just doesn't work that way
• 56:03
  Speaker 4: unless there's a certain you know, combination of people behind
• 56:06
  Speaker 4: that movie. Yeah, so you know, don't do it for
• 56:10
  Speaker 4: the money. If you did it for the money, you
• 56:12
  Speaker 4: would not do this for a living. It's just not
• 56:15
  Speaker 4: the money isn't good enough for you know, ninety nine
• 56:18
  Speaker 4: percent of the people in the business.
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, very very true, Jenny, Very true, Jenny. I know
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: we're starting to running run out of time. But before
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: we get before we uh run out of time, I
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: just want to talk about the Looming Tower, the new
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: You're new series on Hulu. So could you just you know,
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: tell me tell us that you know a little bit
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: more about the series.
• 56:38
  Speaker 4: Sure, it's it's an it's a really interesting take based
• 56:43
  Speaker 4: on the Pulitzer Prize winning book that came out after
• 56:46
  Speaker 4: nine to eleven. Of basically, the book sort of talks
• 56:51
  Speaker 4: about how the United States missed nine to eleven. And
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: this is a dramatized version of a non fiction book,
• 56:58
  Speaker 4: but you know, there are a lot of fictional elements.
• 57:00
  Speaker 4: They've written a lot of fictional characters to make it
• 57:03
  Speaker 4: more tight and dramatic about how the FBI and the CIA,
• 57:10
  Speaker 4: Misty Shather and some points enough of the information that
• 57:16
  Speaker 4: think we're getting pre nine to eleven to actually prevent
• 57:20
  Speaker 4: nine to eleven from happening, And so inevitably the show
• 57:24
  Speaker 4: is about you know, flawed humans on both sides of
• 57:27
  Speaker 4: the coin, not fully communicating and you know, interestingly, as
• 57:33
  Speaker 4: we were talking about fully being on the same thing
• 57:37
  Speaker 4: to protect the United States from the attacks. And so
• 57:40
  Speaker 4: I've only seen the pilot, I've read read the series.
• 57:43
  Speaker 4: It's really as far as I can tell, it's really
• 57:45
  Speaker 4: going to be something fantastic. It's it sort of feels
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: like a really intense version of Homeland, and I think
• 57:53
  Speaker 4: the intensity comes from the fact that it's true or
• 57:56
  Speaker 4: based on true things, So it's a little more it's
• 58:00
  Speaker 4: you know, it's it's a lot because it's nine to
• 58:02
  Speaker 4: eleven and you know, I was around then. I was
• 58:04
  Speaker 4: a junior in high school, so I remember all that.
• 58:08
  Speaker 4: But at the same token, it it does a lot
• 58:10
  Speaker 4: of you know, exploring the humanity of the people that
• 58:12
  Speaker 4: were surrounding that time and what was going on in
• 58:17
  Speaker 4: the Rise of Alida, and you know where the US
• 58:22
  Speaker 4: was in terms of dealing with it, and you know
• 58:24
  Speaker 4: how it all sort of came to be. So for
• 58:26
  Speaker 4: anybody who's a history buff, it will be something really
• 58:31
  Speaker 4: very cool because it feels like a fiction, but it's
• 58:36
  Speaker 4: actually largely based in reality, or at least in reality
• 58:41
  Speaker 4: is held by Lawrence Wright, who who wrote the book.
• 58:45
  Speaker 4: So so yeah, it's it's really cool. I play a
• 58:50
  Speaker 4: CIA sister. There's a like I said, there's the FBI
• 58:53
  Speaker 4: and the CIA, and for all intents and purposes, the
• 58:56
  Speaker 4: CIA is the antagonist in this in this story, the
• 59:02
  Speaker 4: guy that runs the CIA. The character's name is Martin Schmidt,
• 59:07
  Speaker 4: and he's kind of it's quite implied that he's purposefully
• 59:12
  Speaker 4: withleding information because he feels like it. And I play
• 59:16
  Speaker 4: a CIA agent that works for his department, and I
• 59:19
  Speaker 4: sort of am a Lemming, as it were, so they
• 59:22
  Speaker 4: make twos about he it's just him and a bunch
• 59:24
  Speaker 4: of young women that are running this department, and they're
• 59:26
  Speaker 4: all following him like Lemmings, and I'm one of the Lemmings.
• 59:30
  Speaker 4: So it was it was a really really cool project
• 59:35
  Speaker 4: to work on. And and you know, it's not often
• 59:37
  Speaker 4: you can work on something that feels like it might
• 59:40
  Speaker 4: actually be really impactful. You know, most of the time,
• 59:43
  Speaker 4: you get what you get and you do what you do,
• 59:45
  Speaker 4: and that's what it is, and that this one was
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: really special. The team was absolutely fantastic collaborative. That the
• 59:52
  Speaker 4: cast was, you know, amazing to work with the ones
• 59:55
  Speaker 4: that were in it a little bit more than me.
• 59:59
  Speaker 4: The people that I work with most were Peter stars
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 4: Guard and Ren Schmidt.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show, and.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: They were lovely to work with. And the other three
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: women that played the Lemmings with me, and it says
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 4: Katie play Hive, Sharon Washington and Erica Show and you know,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 4: it was just it was as much fun as you
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 4: have working on something that's as serious as it is.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 4: You know, our characters are of comic relief as well,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 4: so that was kind of nice that we had a
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 4: lot of these kind of jokey scenes, which is cool.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 4: But but yeah, I'm really I'm really thrilled to be
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 4: working on something that seems like it's going to be
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 4: something really wonderful. And you know, with Hulu, the hand
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 4: the Handmaid's Tale just came out and as well, so
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 4: I think they're really poised to get some some real
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 4: viewership on the show.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, and it's funny too because you know, Hulu,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: you know, they're getting into the original content game and
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: which which is you know, good because I think eventually,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: you know, well I think Netflix all the writing on
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: the wall too that eventually, you know, with all the
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: movies that they have, they're going to have to have
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: some original content because otherwise they'll just going to be
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: keep licensing the same stuff. And then you know, and
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: now everyone's getting their own channels, like Criterions getting their
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 3: own channel. Uh, you know, NBC is going to start
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: holding their own content back now and then if you
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: want to see you know what I mean. Now, I
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: think that's uh, this so the future, but basically, Jenny,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: you and I in a couple of years is going
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: to be telling people like, hey, you remember the days
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: when you could just watch HBO and you can see
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: everyone's movies on there.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 4: It's true. I mean, you know, I have I had
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 4: Hulu before I booked this show because because you know,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 4: it was one of you know, we Netflix first, I
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 4: think everybody did, and then Hulu was sort of the
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 4: next big up in terms of original content, and then
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 4: Amazon is the other one. So those are the three
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 4: that we have, and then you know, we ended up
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 4: buying you know, we end up doing HBO Go because
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 4: of Game of Thrones. And so basically, these these channels
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 4: effectively are attracting viewership literally, so people can watch one
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 4: great show. And now I really like Hulu because it
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 4: has all network stuff and I don't even have to
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 4: turn on cable. I can just watch it on Hulu.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 4: So I watch the New nine it's called nine to
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 4: one one, the Fox series. I watched that on Hulu.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 4: I watched Will and Grace on Hulu. I watch what
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 4: else did I see this week? Even on there? Oh,
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 4: Nashville I saw at some point, and I watched that
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 4: on Hulu. So I mean, I don't even have to
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 4: go to TV, which is just kind of nuts that
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 4: they're making it so that, you know, the cable doesn't
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 4: even have to be a thing if you don't want
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 4: it to be. So I think that's crazy, you know,
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 4: like I can't imagine a world with which cable is
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 4: you know, obsolete, but who knows could be?
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: I concur I think it's coming very very rapidly with
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: everyone calling the cord, and you know, it's just and
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 3: then with so much original content out there, whether it
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 3: be on YouTube or Hulu or what have you, it's
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: just it's just, you know, there's a lot more options
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 3: and a lot more accessible options, and we don't have
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: to have a Comcast box anymore or whatever, you know
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: to view these things. But but you know, and that's
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: something too that you know, I've I've found just talking
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 3: with people like yourself, Jenny, just you know, what everyone
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 3: is experiencing and what everyone is seeing out there when
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: they're doing these projects, and what they're being told by
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: different people who you know, who you know are sort
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: of have their or who are sort of in the know,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: if you will. But but Jenny, when does Looming Tower,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: when is that premiering on Hulu.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 4: I believe it's premiering on Wednesday, the twenty eighth February,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 4: and I can't remember if it's actually I don't know
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 4: if it's three episodes or four episodes that they're dropping
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 4: that night, so they'll do I think the Hulu model
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 4: is that they drop three or four and then they
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 4: do once a week. I think that what's happening. And
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 4: my guess, my educated guess, would be they're going to
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 4: have the first three episodes and then for the next
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 4: seven weeks after that, it'll be every Wednesday night they'll
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 4: put a new one out and it's ten episodes total.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 4: So so that's what I think. I think that's what
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 4: they're doing. And and I'm in the first one, but
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 4: I don't really show up till the third, so stick
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 4: with it.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 3: Well, that's good. If Hulu drops the first four, then
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: then people can watch the first one and then then
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 3: you know they'll watch the second, but the third one,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: then you know they're they're already has already dropped. I
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: think it's a little more easier.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 4: Right, Well, hopefully we'll see. Like I said, I am
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 4: in the first one. I went to the premiere last
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 4: week at the Paris Theater in New York, and I
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 4: was I took my manager as my date. My fiance
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 4: was at his bachelor party, which was exciting, so I
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 4: took her and she saw me in the episode and
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 4: she was like, oh, look it's you, and I was like, yep,
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 4: that's all you can see me until absolute great. But
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 4: the pilot was really really good, so I'm you know,
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 4: like I said, I'm thrilled. I think it's going to
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 4: be really fantastic. And if you can, if you can
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 4: stomach watching a show about nine to eleven in a
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 4: real way, I think I think it'll be something really
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 4: really awesome.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's uh And I'm going to make sure
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 3: to link to all this in the show notes everybody,
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 3: because you know, I read up about the show and
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 3: I think it's gonna be pretty interesting too, because it's
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 3: always about information, right, and I think that's what technology is.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: Is one thing I've come to Jenny to understand is
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 3: that technology. Let me take a step back. Even before technology,
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 3: it's all about telling stories and communication, right, And I
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 3: think that's what stories are is communication. Everything's communication. Whether
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: I'm communicating to you, you're communicating to me. We're communicating
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 3: to the world, and technology has sort of put that
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 3: on steroids now. So now you know, now with all
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 3: the you know, everyone has their own content channels, uh,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: you know, cell phones, podcast, everything now can be told,
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: the communication happens a lot faster. So it's it's a
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: show essentially about communication and what you know, withholding facts
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 3: and stuff like that. So it's it's you know, and
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 3: not only that, but it's also about you know, a
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: very tragic day that happened, you know, seventeen years ago. Now,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: my god, Jenny, seventeen years ago. I just I just
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 3: I just I went what it just hit me like
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 3: a sack of bricks. Oh my god.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 4: But yeah, well at least they won't say it's too
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 4: soon to do this. That'll be one thing.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I just I mean, my god, I did.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 3: It just hit me like literally, so uh but it's
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 3: all about communication, so I wanted to. So that's why
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 3: I think this shows gonna be interesting about that, you know,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: about September eleventh, and it's it's a new vantage point
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: to explore the events and a new new idea about
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 3: the show too. That I think is it's a unique
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: feel to it. But that's why, you know, and and
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 3: again that's why I wanted to have you on the show,
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 3: just to talk about that and and also about you know,
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 3: your career and everything else. I'm always down to talk
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: to interesting people, Jenny, So you're you're a very interesting
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 3: person and I and you know, this has been a
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 3: fun conversation. So just in closing, Jenny, you know where
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 3: people find you out online?
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 4: Well, IMDb is always a great place. They keep good
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 4: records there. My my website is actually Jenny Paul dot
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 4: info and not dot com because because I think about
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 4: ten years before I tried to get my domain name,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 4: a really nice couple named Jenny and Paul decided to
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 4: come together and get married and have that have that
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 4: domain name. But it is Jenny Paul dot info. So
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 4: so yeah, that's that's pretty much it. I'm on Instagram
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 4: and Facebook and all of the things, so you can
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 4: anybody can find me in any of the things. I'm
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 4: I'm easy to, easy enough to. But yeah, that's that's
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 4: pretty much it. And you know, the Looming Tower and
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 4: Jessica Jones is coming out in March eighth, So if
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 4: you're if you're a Marvel fan or a Jessica Jones fan.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 4: That's that's the magic day.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 3: And I will link to all of everything that Jenny
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 3: and I talked about in the show notes, and I'll
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 3: make sure to link to the right website too, not
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 3: not Jenny Paul dot com.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 4: And yeah, and that's like I couldn't. I was like, oh,
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 4: they've I'm stup been married for they must have like
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 4: seven children by now, and I still got to figure
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 4: out how to get the domain name. So if you're
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 4: out there, Jenny and Paul, let's talk. But no, so
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 4: Jenny Paul, that info we'll have to do for now.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 3: It's kind of like that, remember those old talk shows
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 3: in the nineties and stuff where they'd have a surprise
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 3: guest like, well, Jenny, you're in luck. Behind this door
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 3: is Jenny and Paul, you know what I mean? Like,
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: remember remember those talk shows they'd be like, well, you
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 3: have an enemy. Huh, well guess who's joining us? And
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: they like what.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 4: I feel like, I feel like they still exist. I
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 4: feel like that's like Marie and those those shows where
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 4: they're like, so you had this you know, long lost
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 4: lover that you haven't talked to in fifteen years. Guess
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 4: what we brought them on the show. Hey, thanks for that.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 4: Thanks for that. Exactly what I needed today, of all days,
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 4: is to you know, confront my love for fifteen years.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I could confront that old crush who got away.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 3: Thanks a lot for Rubbins salt in those wounds, right.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 4: Thanks. You know, I spend enough time dodging them on
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 4: the subway.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 3: You know now they're here after me. But Jenny, it's
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 3: been great having you on.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: a great job on this episode. If you want to
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: head over to the show notes at any filmuscle dot
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: com forward slash seven eighty one, and if you haven't already,
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: please head over to Filmmaking podcast dot com. Subscribe and
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: leave a good review for the show. It really helps
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: us out a lot, guys.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 3: Thank you again so much for listening.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: Guys, as always, keep that hustle going, keep that dream alive,
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: Stay safe out there, and I'll talk to you soon.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: Indie film hustle dot com. That's I N D I
• 1:10:12
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• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: E dot com,