Latest / Be A Global Citizen! / 218. GC Talks with Fumihiko Tominaga: Climate Change is Linked to Your Daily Life

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218. GC Talks with Fumihiko Tominaga: Climate Change is Linked to Your Daily Life · Be A Global Citizen!

0:05
Hi there, and welcome to Be a Global Citizen, the podcast that
0:08
explores the concept of global citizenship through the lens of
0:11
value creating education. My name is Scott Bauer and I'm
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Ahsoka, researcher and educator. I hope you find the discussion,
0:18
stories and insights on this podcast to be valuable and
0:21
inspiring as we strive to become global citizens who are
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committed to living a contributive life.
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Enjoy. Hi, my name is Fumiko Tominaga.
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I am based in in John, South Korea and currently I work for
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an organization called Green Climate Fund, which is the
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multilateral climate fund established and UN United
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Nations Framework Conventional climate change.
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It's a pleasure to be here. Hi, Fumihiko, Thank you so much
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for joining me on the podcast. I'm very excited to also have
1:02
you. And it's been really wonderful
1:05
to connect on this platform. But before that, we were able to
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connect in person here in South Korea.
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It's been really lovely to just, yeah, you know, grab coffee and
1:17
and see some of the sites with you and also learn about the
1:21
work that you're doing, the journey that you took to get to
1:24
where you are. I know there have been many,
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many different countries that you've lived in, and I think
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it's really incredible to see someone like yourself be able to
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navigate different cultures while at the same time maintain
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such convictions in the work that you're doing as it relates
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to sustainability, climate change.
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And I wanted to ask where, where those, you know, particular
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interests within your career came from.
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And I just wanted to pass it back to you and ask about some
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of the milestones of, of your, your journey.
2:00
Sure. Thank you.
2:01
Yes. And it's been nice connecting
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with you here in South Korea. I didn't know that you were
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here. And thank you for the question.
2:10
Yes, I have lived in many countries.
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This is my ninth country that I'm living and working.
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And by living, I mean it's like spending time more than six
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months. So this includes actually study
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abroad that I did when I was at Sofia University of America.
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I went to Ecuador and this is one of the first milestones, I
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would say, where I got to learn how important it is to protect
2:42
environment. But the same time that could
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mean some economic activities might be restricted because of
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Environmental Protection. So I learned in ECHO this kind
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of two sides of coin, if you will, of Environmental
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Protection and economic development.
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And this whole idea of sustainable development, I think
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it came to mainstream more recently when the UN decided on
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sustainable development goals. And now it, I feel like this is
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pretty like common concept among regular people.
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But I think back then he was kind of, oh, do we sacrifice
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economic development and leave some people in poverty while
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protecting the environment? This actually I have a episode
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when I was in Ecuador. I got to go to different cities
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within Ecuador as part of study abroad program.
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But also I took my weekends and I usually traveled to different
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cities just to explore. There's one city I visited.
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It's a coastal city in Ecuador and they have a lot of mangrove
3:58
trees. It's a mangrove forest area on
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on the coastal city of Ecuador. And mangrove has actually very
4:06
important role. It maintains ecosystem in in in
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that area. At the same time, it also
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protects the the city from, for example, flooding.
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So it has like a multiple purposes.
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But because this company came in with the idea of farming shrimps
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in this area, they decided to cut down all the mangrove and
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they put this shrimp farming facility.
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And this destroyed not only the live leaflet of local people,
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but also the ecosystem and also another important role that the
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mongrel forest was playing, which is to protect people from
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disasters. So this really got me thinking,
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oh, like how this could have been avoided or what can what
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could have been done to promote economic development?
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But at the same time, not bringing the environment.
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So this is, yeah, this is when I really started thinking about my
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career, like what I want to do in my life after graduating from
5:17
university. So that's the like one of my
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very first milestone that's still kind of related to the
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career that I've pursued so far. And now like I'm, yeah, I'm glad
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to say I'm still in, in this area, this field of
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sustainability, sustainable development and climate change
5:37
and also International Development because the, the
5:41
company I'm working for now, we support climate change projects
5:45
in developing countries. So it the aim is to support
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their people's library foods, at the same time adapting the
5:58
supporting the adaptation of that country to climate change.
6:03
Yeah, and, and it sounds very powerful, right, that it really
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struck a chord with you seeing with your own eyes the
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environment probably from different perspectives.
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One maybe the initial awe of like, wow, you know, I mean,
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Ecuador is such a beautiful country.
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It's very, you know, the biodiversity there is
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incredible. And, and then at the same time,
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when you looked a little bit closer and you saw the, the, the
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actual companies that were set up there like shrimp farming
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also, I know oil extraction is, is really big there as well.
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And you, you mentioned that the, there's these kind of like two
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sides of the same, same coin happening where of course there
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would be these really powerful interests for economic
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development, while at the same time this need to maintain this
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biodiversity. And why should these things be
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mutually exclusive? Maybe there is a way to kind of
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have both. And that's where the concept of
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sustainable development right through the SDGS came about.
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But wow, what a for, for you like being kind of ahead of
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that. How, how did you grapple between
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those two very powerful kind of like incentives of like
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maintaining like the environment, right?
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Having that appreciation for it and then at the same time, this
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need of like the local economies might be, you know, dependent on
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it. But then there's also these
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larger macro kind of economies that like larger scales with
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like multinational corporations. And did you actually study some
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of that while you were on study abroad?
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Or was it really just kind of the, you know, igniting this
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interest to then pursue it for the remainder of your undergrad?
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And then afterwards, did you go on to like graduate studies or
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what else did you do to kind of build upon that, that initial
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first hand experience? Yes.
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So while I was in Ecuador, I did study a little bit about like
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environmental policy and how well actually the history of
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Ecuadorian Amazon and how yeah, oil company ruined.
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There's this oil spill incident that destroyed a lot of people's
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livelihoods, including indigenous peoples in the
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Amazon. But I think my main take away
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was just not take away my from study abroad.
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I think it just interests in in me.
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So upon returning to S U A, I decided to join Green Planet.
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I don't know if it still exists, but this is like the
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environmental awareness club that we had back then.
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So I started like doing some activities this this green
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planet, like doing like a beach cleanup or promoting more
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sustainable practices at on campus.
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And then back then also SUA that didn't have environmental
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studies as a concentration. So I was my concentration was
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International Studies, but I was interested in like UN and
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multilateral system in general. So I'm studying that and also my
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study study abroad experience pushed me to pursue graduate
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study in in that field. So after S U A, I went to then
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Monterey Institute of International Studies and my
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major was environmental policy. So that's when that's where I
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really started learning more about these different concepts
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and how people have come up with different ideas to overcome this
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very issue of like a contradictory nature of
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Environmental Protection and economic development.
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For example, actually Ecuadorian government, they said we can
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leave the oil under Amazon. We can leave it as it as it is,
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but then we want compensation for not extracting oil, which
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seemed to me back then Thailand radical or like how I was
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thinking. That's an interesting logic.
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Like how I wasn't sure if any countries would contribute.
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But actually, I think Norway did they get a lot of revenue from
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their oil, oil extraction in, in, in, in that region.
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So they said, OK, I can, we can contribute some money.
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So, but I, I think it didn't generate enough money to, to
10:59
make this concept come true. But the same time I also learned
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the concept of payments for like a vital services that the
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environment provides, or this is actually something that I also
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focused like I did my research paper on this concept, which is
11:21
reduced emissions from deforestation and forest
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degradation. And we we call this red, RED,
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red. And this is something that
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people from developing countries with a lot of press coverage
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came up with. And this was actually part of
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the UN is for climate negotiation.
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So basically it's if a country protects forest, forest
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coverage, they don't cut down trees, they maintain certain
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well, they, they do the study like a baseline study and
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compare that after a couple of years and say, OK, we had this
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much of forest coverage. After five years, we still do
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have same, same level of coverage.
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And the idea is to to pay for that basically like avoided
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emissions. So if they would have cut down
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trees, the emission greenhouse, greenhouse gas emission from
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that country would have been this much.
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But because that country protected forest, you, you have
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avoided this much of emission. So we pay for that result.
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So that that's the idea, which is kind of similar to what
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Ecuador was trying to do. They said, OK, we're not going
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to develop some oil and we're not going to cut down cheese,
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but give us some compensation. And I, I, I saw this as really
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like whole idea. And if if it works in reality, I
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think that's that's actually a great way to protect
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environment, but not compromising develop the
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development of the country. So actually then I had this like
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a full circle moment when after I started working here at GCF
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Green climate Fund, because GCF does support this result based
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payment for red. And I actually got to attend
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this international conference, which was held in install in
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twenty twenty three, I think, or maybe twenty twenty two.
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But this whole idea of how to support this idea of red was
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discussed at this conference and I was like working for the the
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organization that's actually paying for that result based
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payment. So I felt OK, I I studied this
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in grad school and now it is it's kind of amazing that I'm
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actually supporting this very concept space that I studied in
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grad school. So that was kind of cool, cool
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moment I had after working here at DCF.
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Wow, yeah, that's that's amazing.
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I mean, full circle moments are always much appreciated,
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especially when on this long timeline.
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I mean, I don't want to say too long right Then I'm like calling
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you out on your on your age. But I think, you know, there's
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this. It's really, it's really cool
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that you had this lived experience in Ecuador and, and
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it sparked this, this passion of I want to protect this
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environment and not just for Ecuador's sake, but, you know,
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writ large, right? Like what, what are companies
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around the world doing in terms of their own kind of extractive
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purposes for, you know, economies of scale?
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And these incentives are really powerful, right?
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Because there is a certain level of greed when you think of a
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corporate structure as being constantly for profit and they
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have to make shareholders happy. And so they, they are constantly
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pushing in that direction. And, and it sounds like, you
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know, what you had to do initially was like, understand
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the logic that these these companies are kind of forced
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into to thinking about. And, and then you deciding that,
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OK, I'm going to like focus on this one example of Ecuador and
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like, you know, deforestation and like understanding, like,
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how can I, how can we address this one issue?
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I guess this this kind of brings me to this question of like when
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people think about anything related to the environment or
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even just climate change, it's so massive, it's so big and it's
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so easy to kind of get lost in the sense of, well, what do I,
15:52
what can I actually do? Where should I direct my
15:55
attention and my focus? And so it sounds like through
16:00
your career path, you were able to focus on one specific thing
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and then you saw this kind of, you know, full circle moment
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come years later. I don't know if everyone
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necessarily comes to that moment when it comes to sustainability,
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but what what do you have to say about this?
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I would say kind of common feeling that a shared of wow
16:23
global issue with the environment.
16:26
It's not looking good. But how are they to then act on
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that, you know, because not, not everyone's going to go to grad
16:32
school and talk about reduced emissions, you know,
16:35
deforestation and all of that stuff.
16:37
So yeah. How did how did you wrestle with
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that? Or have you heard this from
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other people around you when having conversations about
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sustainability? And yes, that's a very good
16:49
question. And I guess I get this kind of
16:55
question as well when so I, I've had some opportunities to talk
17:01
to like high school students, some university students in the
17:05
past couple of years talking about climate change issues.
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And one of the questions I always get this, OK, we, we, we
17:13
get like, we got you. Like, OK, climate change is
17:16
happening. It's like summaries.
17:18
Every summaries feels like getting hotter.
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But what can we do? And that's a very valid
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question. And I usually talk about like,
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OK, it is a global issue. But the same time climate
17:36
change, for example, is a very, it's like linked to your daily
17:42
life. For example, that summer getting
17:45
hotter is one example. Like you can feel that this is
17:48
happening every summer in Japan. It gets to thirty five degrees
17:54
almost like every other day. I would say in the past few
17:58
summers, like twenty years ago, we had maybe one or two days one
18:04
summer above thirty five. Sorry, I'm talking about Celsius
18:10
degrees Celsius. So, yeah, I feel like, OK, it's
18:16
been the summer is getting hotter.
18:20
And for example, the, the the reason why climate change is
18:27
happening is well, this like majority of scientists agree
18:33
that is being caused by us human beings.
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We, we have these greenhouse gas emissions which causes basically
18:42
there is a greenhouse gas greenhouse effect over the
18:46
entire Earth. So we have, we keep more heat
18:51
from the sun. It doesn't, the heat doesn't go,
18:55
go back, go go out of versus atmosphere because of this
18:59
greenhouse effect. The greenhouse gas emission is
19:03
linked to also our daily likes, like if you drive a car, we take
19:07
our airplane or even like clothes like we, it's such a, we
19:14
have this fast fashion like these cheap clothes that you
19:19
buy, wear maybe few times and you throw away.
19:22
And this is also causing a lot of emission.
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So I usually talk about like you can think about how your life is
19:30
linked to this environmental issue that we are having, we are
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seeing now. And maybe look at what you can
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do in your daily life to, for example, reduce your own carbon
19:44
footprint. Maybe buy a little bit better
19:48
clothes or good quality clothes that you can wear for a few
19:52
years rather than few, like one summer or one one season.
19:56
Or maybe try taking public transportation instead of
20:01
driving your own car. Or maybe you can bite also.
20:06
That's how like, I mean, I think it's just a matter of realizing
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how like your. You are actually part of this
20:16
system of climate and like realizing how you can also do
20:23
something to to make things better.
20:28
Yeah. Thank you so much.
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I think it's wonderful to have these kind of opportunities to
20:32
speak with young people and respond to questions that are
20:37
shared with a certain level of urgency, right?
20:39
Because there's this understanding of climate change
20:43
being undeniable. And, and we see that with these
20:47
effects of the temperature rising and more studies kind of
20:51
being put out there. But I also think that, you know,
20:55
young people and just broadly speaking, society wants to know
20:59
how to address this. They want to approach this
21:02
global issue from a place of, of empowerment, right?
21:05
That they are making some kind of difference.
21:08
And I think that by really linking it to their daily life,
21:11
like you talked about is maybe not the most glamorous and like
21:16
seemingly heroic thing rather than, you know, like a president
21:19
signing a document being like it's done right.
21:21
But these, these effects are collective and then they
21:24
compound over many, many years. And, and it's something that I
21:29
think it's a really geared towards our lifestyle and also
21:34
maintaining a certain awareness of how we are linked to the
21:39
environment around us, right. And I think that's something
21:43
that can be difficult to keep front of mind when we have so
21:46
many other things that we're trying to do with, you know,
21:50
studying at school or doing well at work and raising a family
21:54
and, and all of those other things.
21:57
So that yeah, thank you for for sharing that.
21:59
And I wanted to ask another question.
22:02
This relates to the various different countries that you
22:07
you've worked in and lived in, because I believe you mentioned
22:09
nine countries and you so far you've mentioned Ecuador.
22:15
You also studied in the US at Soca University of America or
22:19
SUA. And that leaves seven.
22:22
You don't have to say all of them.
22:23
But I guess my question is from from these different places that
22:27
you lived in, I take it your interests in the environment
22:33
continue to grow, right, With not only just your graduate
22:36
studies, but also your career and working in different, you
22:41
know, capacities related to sustainability.
22:44
So what was it like with again, this this drive to understand
22:50
how to make change on a global level through these different
22:55
organizations, but also experience how climate change is
22:59
affecting these different locations, these different
23:03
countries and local culture? Thank you for asking that
23:06
question. So after finishing my masters
23:10
degree in Monroe, California, I got a job in Mozambique in
23:17
Africa. I'm working for the Japanese
23:20
embassy in Mozambique managing a small grant program that the
23:26
Japanese government provides to developing countries.
23:30
I was there for 1 1/2 years mainly supporting small scale
23:35
projects including like drilling boreholes, rehabilitating local
23:41
clinic or school. Then after Mozambique, I, I
23:49
moved to New Zealand. Yeah, I was looking for Japanese
23:51
embassy in New Zealand. Now it's, this was a little bit
23:55
more, I would say maybe policy related more a little bit like
24:00
more macro level. So I was in charge of Economic
24:06
Affairs between Japan and New Zealand.
24:08
But also for some reason, our Economic Affairs section also
24:13
dealt with environmental issues. So whenever, for example, Japan
24:18
wants to know New Zealand's positions on selecting issues on
24:23
environment, including climate change negotiations, like I
24:26
would go to New Zealand foreign Ministry and talk to relevant
24:31
colleagues. But yeah, I guess so sorry,
24:34
maybe just take a step back. So after, after finishing
24:37
master's degree, I wanted to work in the environment field.
24:43
At the same time, I wanted to do something for developing
24:46
countries because developing countries get like a the issue
24:51
of climate change is funny because developed countries like
24:56
and US, UK, European countries, they contributed to the most to
25:02
this issue. They've developed their
25:05
countries by polluting basically the environment with rehabs
25:10
emission. And that's how the industrial
25:13
revolution happened. And because back then we weren't
25:18
like nobody knew that this would this would result in climate
25:22
change. But the, the effects of climate
25:25
change will be most felt in developing countries because
25:29
they have probably like they don't have us that adaptive
25:34
capacity in these countries will be a little bit less than
25:38
developed countries. So, so that's why I wanted to do
25:41
something. I wanted to, yeah, work in this
25:47
International Development so that I can contribute to, to
25:51
the, the betterment of people's life, life, livelihoods and life
25:57
in developing countries. That's how I got a job in
26:00
Mozambique. New Zealand is a little bit
26:02
different by I thought having this perspective at a little bit
26:06
more macro level, like understanding Japanese, for
26:11
example, position on certain issues like including like how
26:16
official development assistance from Japan is being used to
26:20
support developing countries would help me advance my career.
26:25
And after New Zealand, I, I got into this junior professional
26:34
officer program or we what we call JPO program in short.
26:40
So this is a program where a lot of developed countries provide,
26:46
they basically pay for salaries of these JP OS, but they get to
26:52
work in one of the UN organizations or other
26:58
international multilateral institutions.
27:02
So using this program, I worked for United Nations Development
27:07
Program and I was based in Kosovo in in the Balkan
27:13
Peninsula. And again, I still actually, so
27:18
my first three jobs out of grad school wasn't really related to
27:22
climate change. It's it was more like poverty
27:24
reduction and more like international affairs in
27:27
general. Kosovo is also saying like I was
27:31
working for UNDP and my role was like a poverty reduction program
27:36
analyst. So I supported different
27:39
projects in Kosovo also like supporting the resource
27:44
mobilization efforts of local office in Kosovo.
27:50
But then I also got to so UNDP office in Kosovo was doing some
27:56
like a disaster management project as well.
28:00
So I talked to my supervisor that I, I'm actually interested
28:03
in this field. Like can I, can I also, can I
28:07
get involved in this project? And my supervisor said, OK, as
28:12
long as you do your like, what you're supposed to do, like
28:15
additional work is like, of course you can do it.
28:18
So that's how I kind of got into this disaster risk management
28:23
field, which is actually closely linked to climate change.
28:28
So I worked in Kosovo for like 2 1/2 years.
28:33
Then in 2017, I moved to Korea. And since then, I've been
28:38
working for the world's largest multilateral planet fund.
28:42
And as I said, yes, now I'm supporting like reviewing
28:46
projects, proposals from our partner organizations on
28:51
different climate change projects in developing
28:53
countries. But yeah, that's how kind of my
28:56
journey since grad school took place.
29:00
I also lived in Mongolia when I was like smaller, like when I
29:04
was six years old, my family moved to Mongolia.
29:08
We spent three years there. I think I'm still not like I'm,
29:14
I'm not at ninth countries. But yeah, just additional
29:18
information. No, no, no, that's OK.
29:20
No, thank you. Thank you for sharing all of
29:23
that and also for sharing more details about the work that
29:27
you're doing in each of those countries after Graduate School.
29:30
Since it really seems that you were immersing yourself within
29:34
the International Development architecture, if you will, of
29:39
like, how do these organizations work with local governments?
29:43
How do they roll out certain programs?
29:47
Which communities are benefiting from this?
29:49
And the different exchanges that are, that are happening, both
29:53
terms of economic terms, but then also I think the, the, the
29:57
social and cultural impacts that that probably has.
30:00
I'm sure, especially for developing countries where that
30:04
form of support and aid really goes a long way.
30:08
And for yourself, grappling with how, you know, the work that you
30:13
were doing there really came from a place of wanting to
30:17
contribute with, you know, this acknowledgement and this
30:20
understanding that that it's, it's not fair.
30:24
Certain countries are kind of held at a different standard as
30:30
far as who was able to develop 1st and then how they, they set
30:36
certain rules. And, and yet you're trying to
30:39
work with these different governments to ensure that
30:43
there's this progress. You know what, what progress
30:47
means, right, in terms of like ongoing development.
30:49
And, and that's actually what I wanted to ask because again,
30:53
when we're talking about such global issues, especially likely
30:57
like poverty and issues around inequality, issues around
31:02
sustainability, there's a very specific measurement, I'm sure
31:07
that you had to, to track at the different organizations.
31:11
And, and I'm just curious, did you feel that that progress was
31:18
enough? Like what, what does it mean for
31:21
progress to be enough? And yeah, especially when it's
31:26
like the time scale of all of this is so big and, and there's
31:29
so much uncertainty about the future.
31:33
Where does that place you in terms of your, your work on a,
31:37
you know, day-to-day basis? And then again, looking back on
31:41
your career, what progress meant?
31:45
Thank you. Yeah, that's a very thought
31:49
provoking question. In terms of like poverty
31:54
reduction, I don't know if it's unfortunate.
31:59
The measurement, the most common measurement is how much money
32:03
people earn. And we have this particular
32:09
targets like if people live under $2.00 a day, this
32:14
country's classified as least developed countries.
32:18
And we do see time to time countries that are classified as
32:23
least developed countries. We call it LDC.
32:26
They graduate from this status. So if they have more, if they're
32:32
generating more economic activities, then they graduate
32:37
from LDC and they move to the next category.
32:41
But yeah, it's, I guess it's like how we measure progress is
32:47
actually quite important and what kind of indicators and
32:50
targets we set. This is like a like a basics of
32:55
how we develop our projects as well, because we need to be able
33:00
to monitor the progress that the project, a certain project
33:04
makes. And unless or without having
33:08
like proper indicators and targets, we can't really we can
33:12
say, oh, this project was successful or not.
33:15
And in terms of like how organizations track our own
33:20
performance, sometimes I felt in certain organizations, I felt
33:27
maybe this is not a great measure measurement.
33:30
For example, often times these development institutions, we
33:36
measure our progress by, by the, the amount of money we spent.
33:45
So for example, if you have a project of $3,000,000 this year,
33:50
I'm supposed to spend 1,000,000. And it's not just spending
33:55
money, but of course we just different activities with this
33:58
$1 million. But in the end, whether my
34:03
performance is good or not will be judged by whether I actually
34:08
spend 1,000,000 according to the plan.
34:10
And, and so I see like some colleagues are like toward the
34:17
end of the year because maybe they didn't plan well, they
34:21
start spending more money like maybe having more workshops in
34:27
like toward the end of the last end of the year.
34:31
So like I see some people from different like this.
34:36
Oftentimes we involved stakeholders in these workshops
34:39
or meetings and then they, they get like this workshop at the
34:45
right because there are so many happenings at the end of the
34:48
year. And, and I thought, OK, maybe
34:51
this is not a great way to to measure our performance, but I
34:58
guess in there is like this is I think still pretty common way.
35:04
And I feel like there could be a better way to do this.
35:09
But this question is still, I haven't been able to answer my
35:13
own question. So it's ongoing struggle to,
35:17
yeah, find a better way to measure progress in general.
35:23
No, I think, I think you did a great job really grappling with
35:26
that question because it's it's, it's big.
35:28
I mean, it's not just your performance and your day-to-day
35:31
work, but the performance of the overall organization.
35:35
And then there's also this performance of, of a country
35:39
writ large. And I, I find it reassuring that
35:44
the many different tasks and goals that are set to really
35:49
understand where the money is being used is, is important to,
35:53
to hold organizations and governments accountable at the
35:58
same time, right? Nothing's perfect.
36:00
And what you're describing about allotment of money and the usage
36:04
of that needing to be spent to show success or certain progress
36:10
being made can really, really scratch.
36:13
I mean, I would imagine you, you had yourself scratching your
36:16
head a lot thinking about was this really the best use of the
36:19
money and was this the wisest, you know, way of approaching it?
36:22
Because when you're talking about a country where like on
36:28
less than $2.00, that's, that's what a person is, you know,
36:32
making and then throwing a banquet or a workshop, which
36:36
probably cost much, much more. Can, you know, create an array
36:43
of different emotions as far as wow, like, how is this directly
36:47
correlated with, with that? And, and where are we truly like
36:52
moving the needle in that direction?
36:53
But you know, again, I think having like being being a part
36:57
of those organizations and like having that level of focus.
37:00
And I think, you know, accruing these experiences of really
37:04
tackling some of the biggest, biggest issues that the world
37:08
has really trained you to to think about your daily life.
37:14
And then these interactions with, you know, global
37:18
international figures as more of the global citizen kind of
37:22
perspective. So I wanted to ask you about
37:25
this term global citizen. It's something that I know both
37:30
of us having graduated from soak University of America, we have
37:33
been exposed to at least from undergrad.
37:37
But what would you say is the kind of feeling of being a
37:41
global citizen in these organizations?
37:44
The the colleagues that you have, the government officials
37:48
that you've interacted with, do they use that kind of phrase or
37:54
is it something else that is kind of being discussed?
37:56
Because I'm sure, you know, you can probably sit down and talk
38:00
with them and unpack, you know, the impact that they're doing
38:03
is, is important and it makes that global, you know, effect.
38:07
But do they do, I mean, do you see yourself as a global citizen
38:11
within that context? And do you think your colleagues
38:14
as well would kind of call themselves that or what would be
38:17
the framing around that term, you know, in the spaces that you
38:21
operate in? Yes, thanks.
38:25
I would say the term, this exact term global citizen probably is
38:32
not, is not used as widely As for example at SUA.
38:42
But I think the the spirit of it or essence of being global
38:47
citizenship citizen is probably practiced in these organizations
38:54
like the, the my current company being from GCF, we have staff
38:59
members from I think over 70 countries or something.
39:03
It's like one of the most diverse organization, like
39:07
people with different diverse background work here.
39:13
And it's, it's intriguing to to be able to work with this many
39:25
kinds of people in one organization.
39:29
And I think being global citizen is to be able to put yourself in
39:36
other people's shoe and understand where they're coming
39:41
from. And also, I guess it's not just
39:47
at GCF, but like when we worked, when I worked in different
39:51
organizations in different countries, like being able to
39:54
empathize with person, your counterpart and understand where
39:59
they're coming from. And we have discussions on the
40:02
same like footing and then create something meaningful to
40:07
get there. I think that's the kind of
40:10
essence of being global citizen. It's just I, I don't think you
40:15
have to be, you have to travel like, I don't know, 50 countries
40:19
and you can call yourself global citizen.
40:21
That's not really, I think in my view, like being global citizen
40:26
isn't about the number of countries you visited or number
40:30
of places you left. It's more about how you approach
40:34
these difficult issue or global issue and how you can cooperate,
40:40
collaborate with people from different backgrounds to to try
40:45
to solve this kind of issue. Together, I agree.
40:51
And the sense of like collaboration, I think is really
40:57
important because I'm sure each of those colleagues from the
41:01
different 70 countries probably have maybe done something that
41:07
has created some, some friction, right?
41:09
Because they do something a little different.
41:11
They approach certain conversation with a very
41:16
specific mindset and different communication styles.
41:20
And yet you're all compelled towards a shared mission GCF.
41:27
So I think that shared sense of mission also probably comes into
41:31
play as far as really drawing from the strengths of of each of
41:35
those individuals and yeah, just really trying to work together
41:41
despite maybe some of the challenges that comes with
41:45
having such diversity. And I I like that, you know,
41:50
you, you talked about not needing to travel to so many
41:54
different countries, like, you know, live in nine countries in
41:56
your case. But I mean, I think that there
42:00
is something to say about having privileged opportunities like
42:04
for both yourself and then also for me as well to have been in
42:09
situations where we are challenged, right?
42:11
To think about our own upbringing, our own values, you
42:17
know, to ask questions, maybe even within work about am I
42:20
making progress? Is this geared towards, is it
42:23
the best place of, you know, like my, my sense of purpose
42:29
where I can really make a big difference And this this method
42:35
of really asking like, am I on the right path?
42:38
I also feel maybe ties into globe global citizenship.
42:42
And then the last thing that I wanted to comment on this, at
42:45
the very beginning, you said that most people in these
42:48
international spaces or at least within like develop
42:51
International Development spaces don't stand up on a podium and
42:55
say I'm a global citizen. I find that to be very
42:57
interesting because I mean, I would imagine within that
43:02
structure, it's very much around kind of like your positionality
43:06
is important. You're speaking on behalf of the
43:09
Japanese embassy, right? Or you're speaking on behalf of
43:12
a organization, but that is based out of the US, right?
43:17
And so there's always this kind of like posturing and
43:20
positioning that probably comes into play where suddenly taking
43:25
on a broader identity may be a little presumptuous of that
43:30
person. You know, people might kind of
43:32
get the wrong message. But you spoke about it's, it's,
43:36
it's really about the spirit of global citizenship that matters.
43:40
And, and can I, I just wanted to ask a follow up, where does one
43:44
necessarily acquire a spirit of global citizenship?
43:50
Or at least for your case, like where do you feel like you were
43:54
able to, you know, acquire that or develop that or be exposed to
43:57
that, that then set you up to work with so many different
44:00
international colleagues. Yes.
44:06
I think for me it started at SUA because OK, coming from I, I
44:16
went to Middle Special high School in Japan.
44:21
So coming from that more, more or less homogenic society to,
44:28
to, to California where we have people from different countries
44:33
studying on same campus. I think that was really the
44:37
first. Wow.
44:39
I, I did have some sorry. So I lived in Mongolia and I
44:43
studied at International School. But like that's like maybe a 6th
44:47
or maybe it's a little too small.
44:50
So really like I think SUA was my starting point and I guess
45:00
through experience like study abroad actually the the other
45:06
country I haven't mentioned is El Salvador where I did a one
45:10
year volunteer work. So doing these things in
45:14
different countries definitely helped.
45:18
But again, and like you mentioned, this is like, I, I
45:22
understand this is a privilege. It's, it's not like everyone can
45:25
probably do it. But I think like doing like the,
45:31
the spirit of like global citizenship, as I mentioned, it
45:37
doesn't have to be always international.
45:39
Like there are people like maybe in your neighborhood, maybe who
45:44
you don't who you don't agree with and try to like understand
45:49
that with like trying to understand that person can also
45:53
be like a practice to to become global citizen.
45:58
So it's not like we have to be you have to interact with people
46:03
from different countries. It's more about maybe like we
46:11
didn't same country in Korea, for example, maybe you don't
46:15
agree with certain people, certain colleagues in your
46:18
company. That could be an opportunity to
46:21
also like put yourself into this global citizenship ship and
46:27
practice this kind of thinking, OK, why this person is
46:31
disagreeing with me? Like what's the motivation?
46:33
Like how, how can I understand this person better so that we
46:37
can come up with a like a mutual mutually agreeable solution that
46:43
could be, I think could be a practice that you can do to
46:48
develop this kind of thinking. I I totally agree and I
46:54
appreciate, like early in the conversation, you talked about
46:58
some of the advice you would give to these different
47:00
students, right, about how climate change is linked to
47:03
their daily life and, and there were some very concrete things
47:08
that you talked about. You can be more mindful about
47:11
consumption of clothes, gas, cars, food.
47:15
All of that is important. And what you're talking about
47:18
now speaks to these practices that come from a spirit of
47:23
curiosity, of leaning into complexity, albeit, you know,
47:28
maybe discomfort. Discomfort of like leaning into
47:30
something that maybe you don't fully agree with, but that
47:34
you're seeking to understand. And I think that, you know,
47:38
having that broader stance and like willingness to really hear
47:42
someone out, it really shifts the other person's perspective
47:45
as well. Not necessarily with this eye of
47:48
I'm going to persuade them by just being very considerate and
47:52
open minded, but I think really to have them feel properly heard
47:57
in a society where oftentimes the the knee jerk reaction is
48:02
not to fully listen, but to make judgement and perhaps reject,
48:11
you know, in a split second whether you agree or you don't.
48:14
And and so by having that practice that you talked about,
48:18
I think is very important for us to apply on a daily basis,
48:23
moment to moment basis as well. Because you know, you don't have
48:27
to leave the country to find yourself in a hole set of
48:31
different challenges when it comes to communicating with
48:34
people around you, be it on the street or in the workplace.
48:37
So I find that to be very relevant and another very
48:41
concrete way to take action to understand the impact that we're
48:45
making on the local and global level.
48:48
And there's this anecdote I have from high school where my math
48:53
teacher used to talk about like, if you want to be like, if you
48:59
want to be a global citizen, you need to have this.
49:03
And what do you mean by this is actually like physical strength,
49:10
like being able to, for example, like if I go on work trips these
49:16
days, like I have to fly, I don't know, 12 hours.
49:21
And immediately, immediately after writing, I have to attend
49:24
a conference all day. And it's like, and I, I really
49:29
now understand what my math teacher was saying, like you
49:32
have to be tough. Like you have to be able to like
49:37
push through these international trip attending conference, doing
49:42
work in the evening, have a have a conference call in, in, in the
49:48
morning. It's very tiring.
49:52
And I, I think now I really do understand.
49:55
OK, yeah, I, I need to be able to do all these things and still
50:00
function as a, as a, as a regular person attending
50:04
conference, for example. So, and that's why I, I do my
50:09
phone and it's actually good, good way to also distress.
50:14
But also like I ever since I started running, I don't really
50:18
get, I don't get cold like these days like I used to like OK,
50:23
once once a month, like I have like a terrible headache or like
50:27
I have fever. But ever since it started
50:29
running, like that's kind of when it went away.
50:33
So maybe one suggestion I'd make if you want to be able to do
50:39
this kind of work is to have a lot of stamina and physical
50:45
strength that so that you can push through like hard, intense
50:50
schedule that you might have in the future.
50:55
It's a great suggestion and I'm right there with you.
50:58
I'm running the marathons too. And it's important to have
51:02
healthy body so that you can have that vigor trans translate
51:07
into the actual work of like showing up to all the different
51:11
places, meeting with people. And yeah, I think it's a it's a
51:15
great way to to refresh as well. So thank you for that
51:18
suggestion. And yeah, any any other
51:22
recommendations in the book and movie department?
51:25
Yes, so my this is also my favorite movie, which is
51:31
Shawshank Redemption and it's well, I guess now we can call it
51:37
classic. It's a movie where a person was
51:42
framed for crying, like kidding his wife and he ended up going
51:47
to prison. But he like it seems the
51:52
situation was like completely hopeless because he was framed.
51:56
He didn't have any way to prove his innocence and he's just
52:01
stuck in the prison like a maximum security prison.
52:07
Then he started blocking his way out.
52:12
And I don't I guess it's it's a pretty famous movie.
52:15
So probably you'll have to elaborate on the whole story.
52:18
But like I, I find this like the movie is all about like having
52:24
hope. No matter what your situation
52:27
may be, as long as you keep hope in yourself, you will be like
52:32
you will prevail, like you will be able to achieve what you want
52:37
to do. And and yeah, Indian, he's
52:40
gonna, he gets out from the prison and we spend the rest of
52:44
life and rest of life in like a Mexican coastal city.
52:49
But yeah, it's, it's, I think like having hope.
52:53
It's the message of this movie. Stop.
52:56
Like in my view is like keeping hope in yourself and keep
53:01
positive and move forward no matter what.
53:05
Thank you for that wonderful movie recommendation.
53:08
It's a great movie and I love that we're closing out this
53:11
conversation on a message of hope.
53:14
And in line with that, I wanted to give you the last word.
53:18
Any any additional thoughts or comments send offs as we wrap up
53:22
this conversation? No, I just wanted to say thank
53:26
you for hosting me. It's been a great conversation
53:31
and if any listeners have any questions I will be happy to
53:36
answer. Questions I I'll be happy to
53:39
like provide some advice if they want to have some career session
53:45
with me. I'm always open to provide
53:49
suggestions, guidance, advice to younger generations.