Latest / Weeknight Mysteries Podcast / Ep. 125 | Creepy Folklore - The Owlman Of Mawnan & The Disturbing Case Of The Łódź Skinhunt

Transcript

Ep. 125 | Creepy Folklore - The Owlman Of Mawnan & The Disturbing Case Of The Łódź Skinhunt · Weeknight Mysteries Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: It was April 1979. The Melling family were spending their
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Easter holiday in Mornan Smith, a picturesque village in Cornwall, England.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: On Saturday the 17th, the two children of the family,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: 12-year-old June and 9-year-old Vicky, had headed out on their
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: own to explore the area. They were passing by St.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Mornan and St. Stephen's Church when all of a sudden
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: in the sky above the bell tower, there appeared a
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: huge creature. It looked like a man but it had
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: the wings of a bird. The girls ran back to
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: their parents and they were so disturbed by what they'd
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: seen that their father cut the holiday short. Those girls,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: it seems, had had an encounter with the Alman of Mornin.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: The origins of the Alman are unclear. A lot of
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: websites they read whilst researching this reference are a 1926
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: article in the Cornish Echo about two boys that were
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: chased by some sort of a large and ferocious bird.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: The problem is no website seems to provide any pictures
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: of the article so you can read it for yourself.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: I had to go to the book The Alman and
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Others by Jonathan Downs to find the article and read
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: it for myself. The bird was described as being about
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: three feet long with a body like a duck, cream
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: and brown colored plumage with black on the tips of
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: the wings. Now that doesn't sound anything like an Alman
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: to me but there's so many websites that are talking
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: about this article and linking it to the Alman story
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: that I had to put that in it seems more
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: likely that the boys were chased by an angry goose
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: rather than some sort of owl-headed cryptid. The first clue
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: we might have to the Alman's origins is when the
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: surrealist artist Max Ernst visited Cornwall in 1937 with a
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: group of other artists. Apparently this group put into all
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: sorts of weird stuff including occultism. The story goes that
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Ernst and his cohorts went off into some Cornish woods
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: one night and performed strange rituals in an attempt to
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: summon animal-human hybrid entities. Max Ernst himself had a weird
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: obsession with birds and he often painted an alter ego
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: called Lop-Lop a shape-shifting part-man part-bird creature. He also painted
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: scenes that looking back on them now seem to mirror
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: future encounters with the Almond. And take a look at
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: this one it was painted in 1924 and it's titled
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Two Children Are Threatened by a Nightingale. The weird thing
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: about this is there are two children and a nightingale
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: but it's also this eerie human figure hovering above the
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: building carrying away another child in its arms. Apparently the
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: painting was inspired by a fever-induced hallucination that Ernst had
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: as a child but to me it reminds me of
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: June and Vicky Melling seeing that humanoid creature hovering over
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: the morning church. So did Ernst and Co. summon the Alman?
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's some sort of surrealist Edgar something that stepped
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: out from the picture frame and took on a life
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: of its own. Or perhaps the Alman is the spirit
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: of Ernst himself. It might just be a coincidence but
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Max Ernst died on the 1st of April, 1976. This
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: was just two weeks before the Mellon girls had their encounter.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: And three months after the girls' encounter the Alman was
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: seen again. Behind the morning church the land slops down
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: through a wooded area until it reaches a beach. It
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: was in this wooded area that two 14-year-old girls were camping,
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Miss Sally Chapman and Barbara Perry. At around 10 p.m.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: on the 3rd of July, 1976 the girls were awoken
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: by a strange hissing noise. They looked around outside their
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: tents and saw a weird figure standing among the pine trees.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: He was described as being as tall as a man
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: but had the face of an owl and was covered
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: in grey feathers. His eyes were large and glowed red
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: and it had big pointed ears. On its feet were
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: large black pints like claws. At first the girls thought
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: it was someone in a costume but then the creature
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: flew up into the air and disappeared into the trees.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: The following day another two girls had an encounter with
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: the owlman in the same area. A letter was sent
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: to a local paper from a girl saying that on
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: the 4th of July, 1976 she and her sister were
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: playing it in the wood behind the morning church when
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: they saw a large creature up in a tree. It
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: was described as being as big as a man but
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: it had legs bent backwards like a bird's. Its eyes
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: were red and its feet looked like sharp black crab claws.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: Unlike the last encounter the creature then flew upwards and
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: disappeared above the treetops. The first two encounters were reported
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: by a man named Doc Shields. Now Doc Shields is
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: an eccentric character to say the least, an artist, stage
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: magician and monster hunter with an interest in the occult.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: At around the time of the Almond sightings he was
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: taking part in a hunt for the Morgra. This is
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: a sea monster that supposedly lived in the waters around Cornwall.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: In March of 1976 two photos of the Morgra were
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: sent to a local paper from someone named Mary F.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Doc Shields came on a scene and D.N. Needance that
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: he was going to try and summon the Morgara to appear.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Morgara Morgara Morgara Morgara Morgara he then orchestrated an elaborate
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: magical ritual on the beach in Cornwall involving naked witches
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: which were his own daughters dancing around. As you can
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: imagine this brought a lot of press attention for Doc Shields.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: It was because of his reputation for hunting monsters that
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: he was approached first by a June and Vicki Milling's
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: father and later by Sally Chapman and Barbara Perry and
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: they both provided him with eyewitness accounts and drawings of
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: the Alman. Now there is a problem here. Doc Shields
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: does have a reputation for being a bit of a prankster.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: Over the years he's written numerous books about how to
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: fake paranormal phenomena for stage magicians and he has books
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: like The Shields Effect, How to Become a Psychic Superstar.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: It teaches you how to create a sort of mythos
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: around yourself which you can leverage for publicity and fame.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Many people suspect that Mary F., that mysterious woman that
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: sent the photos of the Morgara to the newspaper was
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: actually Doc Shields sowing the seeds for an elaborate hoax.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: Some also suspect that Doc Shields invented the story of
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: the Alman. As far as I can tell nobody else
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: has ever been able to track down the Melling family
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: or the two girls saw the creature in the woods.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: It's very possible that they never existed at all. Similarities
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: between the eyewitness drawings suggest that they might have been
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: drawn by the same person although it does say that
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: the drawings are based on eyewitness sketches so Shields might
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: have redrawn them himself from the children's drawings. Some people
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: have also analyzed the handwriting between these two accounts and
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: they think they might have been written by one person.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know much about handwriting analysis so I can't
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: really say for sure but there's something about how the
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: doctor both the eyes drift slightly to the right in
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: both the accounts. But as I say I don't know
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: much about the subject so I can't really comment on
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: it myself. There's no real proof that Doc Shields invented
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: the Alman. It could be as he says he had
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: a reputation as a monster hunter so he was genuinely
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: approached by people that had seen something strange. Shields seems
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: to be a chaotic neutral sort of character. a true
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: surrealist who deliberately soars the seeds of confusion and doubt
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: around all that he does. It doesn't necessarily mean that
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: everything that he's involved in is a hoax but it
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: does mean that we should take it all with a
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: hefty pinch of salt. After the Alman flap of 1976
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: there were sporadic sightings. According to the book Alien Animals
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: by Janet and Colin Board, there were two more sightings
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: of the Alman in 1978. Once by a 16-year-old girl
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: and a few months later by three young French girls
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: but looking into these cases a bit more Doc Shields'
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: name crops up yet again as the source of these stories.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: It doesn't necessarily mean that they're fake. I suspect at
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: that time anyone who had an encounter with the Almond
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: would think of contacting Doc Shields. 11 years later in
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: 1989 there was another encounter and this time it seems
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: that Shields had nothing to do with it, at least
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: not directly. There was a young couple known as Gavin
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: and Sally, although that's not their real names. They'd heard
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: the legend of the Alman and decided to go into
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: the woods behind Morning Church to investigate. Gavin later contacted
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: the paranormal researcher Jonathan Downs, author of the book The
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Alman and others I mentioned earlier. He related his story
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: about what happened that night in the woods. He said,
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: we had to torch and I was shining its beam
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: across the trucks about 15 feet off the ground. Every
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: couple of hours we would walk along the fringe of
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: the woods and this was the third time that evening
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: and it was beginning to get dark. From a distance
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: the trees looked black but close up to branches and
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: shrunks could be seen. We saw the animal at about
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: 9 30 p.m. It was standing on a thick branch
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: with its wings sort of held up at the arms.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: I'd say it was about five feet tall. The legs
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: had high angles and their feet were large and black
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: with two huge toes on the visible side. The creature
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: was gray with brown and the eyes definitely glowed. Unseeing
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: as its head jerked down and forwards its wings lifted
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: and it just jumped backwards. As it did its legs
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: folded up we ran away. Six years later in 1995
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: a letter was sent to a local paper. It claimed
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: to be from a student of marine biology from Chicago.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: She'd been on holiday in Mornin' Smith and was walking
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: through the woods behind a church at around 9.15 when
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: she saw in a tree a creature described as the
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: size of a man with a ghastly face, a wide
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: mouth glowing eyes and pointed ears. It had huge clawed
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: wings and was covered in feathers of silver-gray color. The
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: thing had long bird legs which terminated in large black claws.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: All attempts to track down this Chicagoan witness have failed.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: Many suspect the letter to be another of Doc Shields'
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: pranks although there's no real proof either way. Sightings continued
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: up until the present day but most don't seem to
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: have much more information about them. So instead let's look
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: at some unusual footage and this was captured via the
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: internet channel called Ghost Adventures of Cornwall. Thank you very
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: much to Mark for letting me use your footage in
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: my video or put a link to the original video
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: in the description. They've decided one night to investigate St.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Mornin and St. Stephen's Church but there's one bit where
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: the camera pans across the graveyard and this figure is
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: standing in the background. There was two people in the graveyard.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: the guy holding the camera and his friend who was
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: stood behind him at the time. They didn't notice this
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: strange horned man until they played the footage back frame
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: by frame. Could this be the almond finally caught on camera?
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know if the almond is a hoax. That
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: could very well be the case. However, I am a
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: strong believer in the idea that a fictional story can
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: take on a life of its own if enough people
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: can be convinced that it's real. I talked about this
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: in my ghost watch video how the fictional ghost of
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: pipes managed to possess the minds of many of its
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: younger viewers, giving some of them psychological effects that lasted
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: longer after the program had finished one person even took
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: their own life. There's also the case of the slender man.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: It started out as a photoshop contest and ended up
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: with two girls dragging their friend into the woods and
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: stabbing her 19 times because they thought they were receiving
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: instructions from the slender man himself. Maybe something like this
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: could have happened with the almond. You could look at
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: it from a purely psychological perspective. You convince people that
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: the almond exists and next time someone hears a strange
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: noise or sees a dark shape in the woods behind
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: morning church, they might believe that they had an encounter
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: with the almond itself. Oh, you could get a bit
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: more out there. You could look at the almond as
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: a kind of topper, a thought form made flesh. Could
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: the strange rituals performed by shields and urns really have
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: conjured something more solid up? Maybe hoaxing it was a
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: method for willing the almond into existence, getting enough people
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: to believe in it that it actually becomes a reality.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: A decades-long prank and a genuine work of magic at
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: the same time. That might go a bit far for
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: some viewers, but I've been interested in the interaction between
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: the mind and physical reality ever since I read the
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: holographic universe when I was younger. I'm not sure if
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: I totally believe that the mind can create an all-man
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: out of nothing, but it's the sort of thing that
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: I like to speculate on and hey, it's nearly Halloween
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: so I'm allowed to indulge in some spooky speculation. The Almond,
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: he might be real, he might be a prank, he
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: might be in a elaborate work of surrealist art, or
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: maybe he's all those things at the same time. So
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed this typically conclusionless video. I don't
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: really like telling people what they should think. but I
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: like giving them something to think about so hopefully you
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: found this interesting. October always puts me in the mood
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: for a good spooky story so I hope you guys
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: are enjoying the content. Here's some more recordings you might enjoy.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: Check out the creepy folklore playlist if you like this
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: sort of thing. Today's investigation is about two of Canada's
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: sickest serial killers, Paul Bernardo and Carla Holmunker. Paul Bernardo
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: grew up in Scarborough, Ontario. His upbringing is typical of
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: a lot of serial killers. His father was extremely abusive.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Paul grew up watching his mother receive regular beatings and
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: his sister being sexually assaulted by her own dad. His
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: father also had a habit of prowling around in neighborhood
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: at night and peeping into young girls' windows, a habit
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: which later seemed to rub off on Paul. Outwardly though
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: is a child that didn't seem to affect him much.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Paul Bernardo was confident and outgoing. He joined the scouts
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: and as he got older he went on to become
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: a scout counselor where he was very popular with the
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: young children. At the age of 16 he discovered that
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: the man who had raised him was not actually his
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: biological father. His mother had had an affair with another
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: man and gotten pregnant with Paul. This revelation that he
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: was the bastard child of infidelity triggered a deep hatred
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: of women within Paul Bernardo. Fueled by the abuse he
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: had witnessed growing up he developed dark, misogynistic, sadistic sexual fantasies.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: His first job was working for the Amway multi-level marketing company,
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: essentially a pyramid scheme. Through his work he learned useful
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: psychological sales techniques. He studied books on motivational speaking, the
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: art of selling and pick-up artistry. He didn't just use
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: these skills on the job though. He also used them
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: to manipulate the girls he was dating. He liked submissive girls.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Ones that he could abuse emotionally and humiliate in public.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Ones that went along with his rough sex games. Over
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: the years he learned a lot about how to control women.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: His sexual sadism increased in severity until in July of 1987,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: aged just 22, Paul Bernardo committed his first known rape attack.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: A 21-year-old woman was walking home from work at 1 a.m.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: when Paul snuck up behind her and dragged her to
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: the ground. She was right outside her house at the time.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Over the course of about 30 minutes he repeatedly beat
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: the woman whilst vaginally and aimlessly penetrating her. A few
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: days later he committed a very similar attack on a
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: 19-year-old woman. Again she was walking home in the early
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: hours of the morning and was outside her house when
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: he attacked. Paul pushed her to the ground and dragged
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: her into her backyard. There he held a knife to
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: her throat and threatened to slit it if she made
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: a sound. He then tied a rope around her neck
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: and started to beat and molest her. Anytime she moved
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: he would tighten the rope and strangle her. The attack
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: lasted over an hour. When he was done he bound
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: her wrists and tied her by the neck to a
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: fence then he left. A couple of months later Paul
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: met Carla Hermalka. Carla's childhood probably didn't involve as much
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: abuse as Paul's but she does recall many occasions where
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: her drunken father would fight with her mother. During these
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: outbursts her and her sisters would huddle together for safety.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: In her teenage years she began to display strange behavior.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: She became obsessed with crime stories and subjects of death
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: and occultism. She would hold strange spiritual assances for her friends.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: On one occasion she threw her friend's hamster out a
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: window killing it. One of her high school boyfriend recalls
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: how she was preoccupied with the thought of dying. wanting
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: to know how it felt to be killed even cutting
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: herself with a knife. Of course none of these things
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: in isolation would be too strange as far as teenage
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: behavior goes but given what we know about Carla today
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: they were probably warning signs of a deepest psychological problem.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: There was something different about Carla compared to the other
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: girls that Paul Bernardo had dated. Instead of running away
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: from his sadistic urges she seemed to encourage it becoming
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: a willing and submissive participant in his increasingly violent sex games.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Over time Paul became more and more controlling. He began
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: telling her how to dress, how to style her hair
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: and what kind of makeup to wear. He began undermining
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: her confidence and isolating her from her friends. Slowly he
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: was turning her into his sleeve. This new relationship didn't
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: stop Paul from prowling the streets at night and attacking
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: innocent women though. Over the course of three years he
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: attacked at least 16 different women and those are only
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: the ones that are definitely linked to Paul Bernardo. The
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: figure is more likely around 25 women. To describe each
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: attack could be a long and repetitive process. Each attack
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: followed a very similar pattern but with each one the
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: level of violence and cruelty increased. He would pick a
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: young girl walking alone at night. Fourteen or fifteen-year-olds were
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: his favorite. Some were older in their early twenties but
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: they looked young and clearly he had a type. He
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: would lurk at a bus stop till they went past
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: and then he would pounce on them from behind and
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: drag them to the ground. Usually subduing them with a
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: few blows to the head. He would then drag them
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: to a more secluded location and tie them up often
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: with a rope around their neck so that he could
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: strangle them. If they struggled he would hold a knife
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: to their neck and threaten to slit their throats. He
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: lacked to punch them a lot in the back, in
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: the head, in the legs. On one occasion he twisted
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: the woman's arm so hard that he fractured the bone.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: The rapes all followed a similar pattern, first sodomy then
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: vaginal penetration. While he was doing this he would push
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: the girl's face into the ground and run his knife
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: up and down her back. After that he would force
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: ed a perform fellatio on him. Sometimes he would insert
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: foreign objects into the victims' vagina or anus, usually sticks
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: and twigs. One time he raped a woman with his
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: knife blade, lacerating her uterus. Making the victim talk was
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: also a big part of the attacks. He would force
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Etta call herself a bitch in a slut. He would
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: make her say that she loved what he was doing
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: to her, that he was the best she ever had.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: These attacks usually lasted between 30 minutes and 2 hours.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: Sometimes he would get up and leave so that the
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: victim thought that the ordeal was over. only to return
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: moments later and continue assaulting her when he was finally
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: done he usually stole some sort of memento a driver's
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: license or id card something with a photograph to remember
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: them by as time went on police noticed the similarities
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: between his attacks and realized they were the work of
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: a serial rapist Unfortunately because he always struck in the
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: middle of the night and made his victims face the
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: floor it was very hard to get a clear identification
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: of the attacker. Pretty soon news articles were appearing in
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: the local papers warning people to be vigilance. They even
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: gave him a nickname, the Scarborough Rapist. On May 26,
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: 1990 Paul struck again attacking a 19-year-old woman behind a school.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: After an hour of torture and sexual abuse he turned
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: around and yanked out a fistful of a pubic hair
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: as something to remember her by. This enabled her to
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: get a good look at her attacker, so much so
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: that the police were able to compile a very accurate
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: composite image of the Scarborough rapist. The police received two
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: tip-offs from people who believed that Paul Bernardo was the attacker.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: One was from a bank teller who thought that he
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: looked a lot like the composite image. Another report was
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: from Tina Smirnis, the wife of one of Paul's best friends.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: The police brought Paul in for questioning and he willingly
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: gave them a DNA sample. He also admitted that he
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: did look a lot like the composite image, but here's
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: the crazy thing. He was so charming and likable that
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: they decided that there was no way such a well-adjusted
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: young man could be the attacker. They assumed Tina Smirnis
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: must just have been trying to claim the reward money
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: and so they let Paul go and they didn't send
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: his DNA for testing. By this point in their lives
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: Paul and Carla were engaged and Carla had got a
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: job at a veterinary clinic. Paul was spending a lot
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: of time with Carla's family at her house and he'd
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: taken a particular liking to Carla's 15-year-old sister, Tammy. On
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: nights when he stayed over he would sneak outside and
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: peer in on Tammy through her bedroom window. Carla even
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: helped Paul out by breaking the locks on Tammy's window
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: so he could sneak in while she was sleeping and masturbate.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: He told Carla how much he wanted to sleep with
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: her sister and with a little bit of persuasion she
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: agreed to let him. So one night they crushed up
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: several sleeping tablets and served them up to Tammy mixed
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: into spaghetti sauce. Pretty soon she'd fallen asleep and while
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: she was unconscious Paul had sex with her while Carla watched.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: This wasn't enough to satiate Paul's urges. Five months later
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: he told Carla that he wanted to do it again.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: By this point he'd moved in with Carla and was
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: living with her and her family. He persuaded Carla to
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: steal some hollow thing from her job at the veterinary practice.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Halothane is a very powerful anesthetic. They use it to
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: knock animals out when they're undergoing surgery. It's very dangerous
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: if it's not administered by a professional. On Christmas Eve
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: 1990 whilst her parents slept upstairs, Carla served Tammy an
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: alcoholic cocktail at least with sleeping pills. Once she'd fallen
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: asleep they dragged it into the basement and set up
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: the recording camera. Paul liked making whole movies. Most of
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: them were innocent family snaps, short glimpses into everyday life
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: with Carla and her family. He did however like making
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: another type of movie and Tammy Hamalka was about to
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: have a starring role. Carla took a cloth and soaked
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: it in the halothane and then she held it over
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: Tammy's face to make sure she was really unconscious. Then
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: while the camera was rolling, Paul and Carla took turns
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: having sex with Tammy's unconscious body. At one point Paul
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: forces Carla to soak her sister's menstrual blood from her fingers.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: She complains that it tastes disgusting and Paul beats her
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: for not showing enough enthusiasm. In the early hours of
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: the morning whilst Paul was sodomizing Tammy, She choked on
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: her own vomit and stopped breathing. By the time they
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: noticed her face had turned blue and there was no
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: pulse whatsoever. In a panic they attempted to resuscitate her
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: with CPR but they failed. Paramedics were called and she
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: was rushed to hospital but by that point there was
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: nothing they could do. On Christmas Day 1990, Tammy Hamalka
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: was pronounced dead. Carla and Paul were questioned about Tammy's death.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: They told police that she simply had passed out from
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: drinking too much and must have been vomiting in her sleep.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: The problem with this story is the halothane-soaked rag had
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: caused a massive chemical burn on the side of Tammy's
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: face and around her mouth and nose. For some reason,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: despite this, the authorities accepted Paul and Carla's version of
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: events and ruled Tammy's death to be accidental. After that
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Paul started making Carla dress up in a dead sister's
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: clothes and they would have sex on Tammy's bed among
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: her collection of teddy bears. One detail I find particularly
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: sick is that at Tammy's funeral they placed a photograph
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: of themselves in her coffin. This was the image they
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: picked to put inside the coffin alongside Tammy's corpse. A
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: little girl emerged on Christmas Day. Something about it just
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: comes across as incredibly twisted. The mocking greens in the
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: photo seem to be saying, we know what we did
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: and we think it's funny. By June of 1991, Carla
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: and Paul were married and had moved into their own place.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: As a wedding gift to Paul, Carla brought home the
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: drug-done unconscious body of her 15-year-old girl she'd befriended years before.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: She'd taken her out for a girl-he's-shopping trip before playing
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: with spiked cocktails. They filmed themselves sexually abusing the girl
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: while she slept. The next morning that girl, known only
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: as Jane Doe, had no recollection of what had happened
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: and assumed she just had too much to drink. A
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: month later they invited Jane Doe back to their place
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: and spiked her again with sleeping pills. Once more they
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: videotaped themselves raping the girl but this time she stopped
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: breathing halfway through. They formed for an ambulance but Jane
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Doe started breathing again shortly afterwards so they rang the
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: emergency services back again and told them that everything was
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: alright now. The ambulance was recalled and Jane Doe went
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: home once more without realizing the terrible things that they'd
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: done to her. On June 15, 1991, 14-year-old Leslie Mahaffey
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: was returning home. She was supposed to be home by
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: 11 p.m. but she'd stayed out drinking with her friends
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: into the early hours of the morning. As punishment her
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: mother had bolted the doors locking Leslie out of the house.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Unfortunately for Leslie that night Paul Bernardo was also under prom.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: He spotted the young girl alone outside her house and
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: struck up a conversation with her. Apparently she was unfazed
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: by a strange man prowling around a property at 2 a.m.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: He invited her back to his car for a cigarette
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: then produced a knife and forced her into the vehicle.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: He took her back to his place and led her
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: blindfolded into the front room. There he made a needle
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: on the ground and state her name and age whilst
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: he recorded her with the camera. He then led her
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: into the bathroom and made her urinate whilst he filmed
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: between her legs. After that he took her to the
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: spare bedroom and tied her by the wrists to the headboard.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: He told her to stop crying when she didn't he
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: punched her in the face, splitting her lip over her
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: metal braces. That night Leslie was subjected to multiple rapes,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: beatings and humiliations. She was forced to masturbate for the camera.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: He made her say how much she loved it. how
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: he was the best she ever had. He made a
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: drink champagne list with sleeping pills to make her more compliant.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: When Carla awoke later that morning she saw Leslie and
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: Paul in bed together and she was infuriated. Not because
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: he'd kidnapped and sexually assaulted the child but because he'd
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: used their best champagne flutes. Over the following several hours
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Carla and Paul subjected Leslie to various sexual humiliations whilst
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: they recorded the whole thing on their camcorder. At one
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: point on the recording tape whilst Leslie is forced to
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: stick a tongue into Paul's anus he says to her,
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: I'm judging you right now. The next two hours are
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: going to determine what I do to you okay. Right
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: now you're scoring perfect. Sometime after midnight they were finally
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: done with her. By this point they'd been torturing her
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: for around 24 hours. She lay in a fetal position
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: on the floor, bruised and broken wreck bleeding from every orifice.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: They knew there was no way they could let Leslie go.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: Although they kept her blindfolded she might still be able
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: to identify them to the police. In a hushed conversation
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: in another room Carla and Paul decided that they had
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: to kill her. Whilst Paul went to fetch what he
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: needed Carla returned to Leslie and put a blanket over her.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: She gave her a teddy bear to hug and told
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: her to swallow some sleeping pills. As Leslie drifted off
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: to sleep Paul returned with a length of electrical cord.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: He wrapped it around her neck and strangled her. It
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: took two attempts before she was finally dead. They dumped
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: her body in the basement and covered her with a sheet.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: Whilst Leslie's corpse grew cold, Carla's parents paid a visit
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: to the house and they enjoyed a family meal together
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: in the room right above her head. The next day
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Paul visited the hardware store and bought 12 bags of
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: cement powder. Back at the house they laid out Leslie's
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: body on an old top hole in sheet and cut
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: her into pieces. They encased each piece in a lump
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: of cement and then over the course of a few
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: days they made numerous trips to Lake Gibson 18 miles
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: away from their home and dumped the pieces into the water.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: One particularly large block of cement containing Leslie's torso and
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: head was too heavy to carry to the lake so
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: they just left it by the water's edge. It would
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: later be found by a father and son out on
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: a fishing trip. The third and last known kidnapping occurred
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: on April 16, 1992. Carla and Paul were driving around
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: looking for a suitable victim. Sadly for 15-year-old Kristen French
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: she was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: They spotted her walking home from school so they parked
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: up in a nearby church parking lot and waited for
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: her to walk by. Carla approached holding a map and
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: asked her for directions. Whilst Kristen was distracted looking at
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: the map, Paul approached from behind held a knife to
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: a neck and forced it into the car. Back at
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: the house her treatment was very much the same as
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: what they'd done to Leslie Mahaffey. She was drugged with
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: alcohol and tranquilizers, repeatedly beaten and raped, urinated on and
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: forced to perform humiliating acts for the camera. She was
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: violated with a wine bottle and made to tell them
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: how much she loved it and how amazing Paul Bernardo was.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: Unlike Leslie Mahaffey, they didn't bother to blindfold her because
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: this time they knew beforehand that they were going to
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: murder her. Pretty soon after her disappearance her parents filed
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: a missing persons report. When police found one of Kristen's
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: shoes in the church parking lot they suspected that foul
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: play was involved. One of the cruel things that Paul
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: did was to make Kristen watch news reports of her
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: father pleading for a safe return. Between torture sessions they
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: would lock Kristen in a cupboard. Sometimes Paul would leave
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: to get food and during those moments Kristen would plead
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: with Carla to let her go. Of course this fell
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: on deaf ears. After three days of torture with Kristen
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: on the bed with her hands bound behind her back
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: Paul mounted her from behind and wrapped an electrical cord
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: tightly around her throat. He bent down and whispered something
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: into it here. Carla didn't catch all of it but
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: she heard him say, what do you know about dying?
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: He then tightened the cord and Kristen began to choke.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: He timed himself on the bedside clock, strangling their airways
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: for a full seven minutes to ensure she was dead.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: When they were done they stashed her corpse in the
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: basement and went to Carla's parents' house for another family meal.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: On April 30th Kristen's body was found dumped in a
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: ditch 45 minutes away from where Paul and Carla lived.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: The corpse had been thoroughly washed and all her hair
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: had been removed. One weird detail here is that Carla
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: Homolka started to become convinced that her home was haunted.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: She would hear weird knocks and bangs coming from the
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: basement and sometimes she'd hear someone calling her name even
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: when nobody else was home. She even consulted a medium
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: to try and cleanse the house of its evil spirits.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: Much like Poe's tale of the telltale heart, these haunting
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: noises were probably a sign of the guilt plaguing Carla's mind,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: slowly unraveling her last shreds of mental stability. Paul Bernardo's
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: mental state was also becoming increasingly unstable. He became even
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: more abusive towards Carla. One 90 biter so badly that
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: he left her with two extremely swollen black eyes. This
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: was the final straw for Carla. She fled the house
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: and went to stay with her family friend whose husband
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: was a police officer. Upon seeing their injuries they took
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: her to a hospital and the police were called in.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: This is when police started to seriously investigate Paul Bernardo.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: By now it was February 1993 and they finally decided
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: to test the DNA samples that he provided three years
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: earlier and they found out that he was in fact
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: the Scarborough rapist. Upon further questioning Carla realized that they
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: tied her and Paul to the murdered girls. She got
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: herself a good lawyer and agreed to fully cooperate in
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: the investigation in return for leniency. Paul was arrested and
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: the house was searched. Police found a detailed diary written
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: by Paul describing each of his rapes and murders. Eventually
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: the recording recordings were recovered too. The recording tapes were
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: instrumental in the court proceedings. Obviously Paul Bernardo had very
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: little defense. He was sentenced to life imprisonment with the
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: possibility of parole after 25 years. Carla's defense was a
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: little more complicated. It really depends on how much of
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: a story you believe. She was clearly the victim of
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: abuse and she painted herself as a completely unwilling participant
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: in the crimes. She said that Paul threatened to murder
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: her family if she didn't comply. Some believe that she
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: was completely brainwashed. On the other hand she had multiple
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: chances to get away, especially why she was still living
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: in her parents' house. The recording tapes played in court
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: showed that instead of being an unwilling victim she was
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: an enthusiastic and eager participant in the crimes. Unfortunately her
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: plea for leniency had already been accepted before the recording
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: tapes had been seen. She was given just a 12-year
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: prison sentence. A number of photographs surfaced whilst Carla was incarcerated.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: These ones I find particularly interesting. A convicted pedophile and
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: child murderer happily playing on a rocking horse and in
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: a child's playhouse. It's as if she's taunting the victim's
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: families from inside jail. In 2005 she was granted parole.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: Since leaving prison she's married again and she's had three children.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: In 2017 it was reported that she was volunteering at
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: an elementary school, although the media's dumbness generated means she
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: stopped volunteering shortly after it was discovered. As for Paul
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: Bernardo he still languishes in prison. He was up for
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: parole in 2018 but it was denied because of his
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: high likelihood of re-offending. As with most incarcerated child masterists
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: he probably regularly received the kind of treatment he dished
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: out to his victims. If you're new here and you
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: found this interesting then please consider subscribing. I know I'm
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: beginning to sound like a stuck record at this point
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: but I really couldn't make these recordings without your help
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: so thank you very much. In the archive now there
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: should be some more recordings if you're in the mood
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: for something else. Thanks once again for watching. Until next
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: time goodbye.