Latest / Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield / England Exposed? Scotland Run Riot | Six Nations Verdict

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England Exposed? Scotland Run Riot | Six Nations Verdict · Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield

0:00
Finn Russell is just an unbelievable guy.
0:02
I think he loves playing against England.
0:03
I mean, he plays football, they're dominating the English Premier League.
0:07
He plays against these guys every week and he's a guy that likes winning.
0:11
From an island point of view, the win against Italy, although it might have been ugly
0:15
and they just got through, it could be worth its weight in gold.
0:18
It's just a fantastic tournament and these losses by England make the tournament.
0:23
The question is, can anyone catch France?
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There's one team that the Springboks and All Blacks need to look out for.
0:30
It is that French team.
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The CEO of Super Rugby Jack, measly,
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he feels that the competition of Super Rugby is better without the South Africans.
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Now that's, that's ****.
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We're going to never be a victor and just leave the JKs had a carry on.
0:49
Don't, do not say, do not say to me, Ricardo.
0:51
I know what you're going to say.
0:53
I just don't talk.
0:55
Do not say to me, don't, do not say to me, how bad Ringland.
1:00
I don't want to hear it.
1:01
How good was Scotland?
1:04
Right. How can I, how can I not talk and do the show?
1:07
No, good point.
1:08
It's the whole idea of the show.
1:10
Take it when I ask the questions and answer them.
1:13
You can go to sleep again.
1:15
We're going to never be a victor and just leave the JKs had a carry on.
1:18
Yeah, yeah, because I just thought you go, oh, how, like, I thought you'd start with
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like, how bad Ringland and I'm going, no, no, it's got them are really good for
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the Russell unbelievable.
1:29
How bad were England?
1:31
Yeah, I think it's a bit of a really wakening for them.
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It's a trimby that said last week that quite easy games and the last two games probably
1:42
the one great game against the old blacks.
1:45
I still think that quality side, I told you sometimes everyone in the top six in the
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world can beat anyone on the day and we said that.
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And I mean, the previous work Scotland really struggled in the wait, but I mean, we know
2:02
what that Scotland backline can do.
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Three pelotters, unbelievable at 12, you Jones came back as well.
2:13
So yeah, fantastic for Scotland, I really enjoyed it to see it.
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So because there was all the talk of England being the number one team in the world again,
2:24
but yeah, I think they'll have to fight a bit longer to get there.
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Yeah, we all know that number one team is like that.
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I didn't say it there.
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All blacks, I'll say.
2:38
So JK, you're impressed with Scotland?
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Just Finn Russell, I just think he has this, you know, when you look at any sport, you
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know, Michael Jordan, when you look at any sport and you think of people who look like
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they've got time, like he makes it look easy and when Finn Russell's on his game, Scotland
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go well.
2:57
I think it's, I think it's really interesting to talk about standoffs and I don't know what
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your thoughts are Victor, but it just takes them a few more years than in the past to actually
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get used to it.
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And I think that's Ireland's problem.
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I'm not saying, I'm not saying that, you know, these guys are not going to grow into it,
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but, you know, I think someone like Finn Russell's been around there a while.
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It took Dan Carter a few years, you know, I think that the standoff position is so important
3:25
for our game now.
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You can't just be a great standoff and a winning standoff straight away, you know?
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So I think it's really interesting.
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And it takes time and it takes it back or forwards as well.
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I mean, for Finn to do that behind that Scotland pack, I mean, they were so going backwards
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in the scrum.
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So it's not easy, but I think he loves playing against England.
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I mean, he plays for both.
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They dominate the English Premier League, he plays against these guys every week.
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So when he plays against him, the confidence are just so high because he's so used to beating
4:02
all of them.
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And I mean, I'm very close with Juan van Fran at both.
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And he tells me Finn Russell is just an unbelievable guy.
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For a long time, there was people that thought he was difficult in a team.
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He didn't want to work hard, but what you aren't tells me, he's just an unbelievable leader
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and he's a guy that likes winning and he'll do anything to win and he'll work so hard
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and he'll drive all teams.
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So, yeah, I mean, he was outstanding for the British high science against Australia as
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well.
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So I think people forget about that.
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So, yeah, he's a fantastic player and if you've got a good team, you can win most of your
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games.
4:42
It was a brilliant game to watch and, you know, Scotland moved the ball a lot and moved
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England around.
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And you talked last week, J.K. about England playing to their DNA.
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Scotland's really shown the blueprint for beating a team like that if you can pull it
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off.
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Yeah, it seems to be, and I don't know whether, and you mentioned this, Victor, I don't
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know if an England seemed to do it quite a bit, they come off a big winner convincing
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when they look really good and then the next week they sort of crash out.
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You know, we were talking about it last week if there's a banana peel, you know, banana
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skin, that's it.
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So, I don't know if it's actually, you know, the top six sides like Victor said or there's,
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you know, they're mentally not mature enough yet as a side.
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And I think when you're not mature enough as a side, you think you better than what you
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are and you go away from your DNA.
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But like, I think for me, though, that Scotland were just pretty outstanding for 30 minutes,
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I don't know who would have stayed with them.
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I mean, you said it before, Victor, you know, we were very good in November, but then
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they were unbelievable in the second half and they put 17 points on us very quickly and
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they played that style.
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And it's mainly like Victor said, you know, the buffets getting over the bananas lining
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running hard and they were just running hard and then it's front foot ball, you know,
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you talk about some of the great tens in the world, when Bowden Barrett has front foot
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ball, he's bloody hard to stop forwards getting over any, you know, Sasha, anyone, they've
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got front foot ball.
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So, you know, that's what they were giving him and then when he's coming on to the line
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and he's got that really deft ability to go right to the line because he's courageous
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fin and then he's got guys running off him, like, you know, to put it all to it's bloody
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hard to stop.
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So, I mean, that's what makes the Six Nations.
6:36
I love the Six Nations.
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I'm from the Southern Hemisphere, but I was fortunate enough to coach Italy.
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It's just a fantastic tournament and these losses by England make the tournament, you
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know, it really makes the tournament because everyone's got a crack, I just think it's
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fantastic.
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The question is, can anyone catch France?
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I mean, we talk about England, but France is just flying at the moment.
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He's talking about great tens, Jelly Bear, again, at 10, unbelievable man of the match and
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that French team looks strong at the moment.
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I mean, we had a very good game against him at the end of the year, but not to pond or
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Jelly Bear with their team.
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So, it's a different team.
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So, I still think there's one team that the Springboks and All Blacks need to look
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out for.
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It is that French team.
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Totally.
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What makes them so good?
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I think they've got the physicality, they've got a big back of forwards.
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At the moment, they're going with a little bit more mobile back than I think is working
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for them.
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It will be interesting to see if they play that when they play the All Blacks and South Africa
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if they go for some of the bigger men again.
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And then, I mean, we talked about Fin.
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If you've got a 19 combination like that that can control the game and then on the outside,
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you've got wingers that can finish.
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I mean, that one turn over try where they just broke the line and the one winged to the
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other wing.
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That's just speed.
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That's a lot of speed.
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And that's what you want to see.
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So, they've got the physicality, they've got the 19s that can control the game and I mean,
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they've got to slow it to back.
8:13
I think they've got that beautiful balance in the forward pack.
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I think when you think about South Africa and their balance with big men up front, I
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think that the French have now got that.
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They've got some big men, but they're also good at carrying the ball.
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And so, they put you on the back foot, right?
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And then, best nine and best ten getting front football.
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I mean, South Africa and New Zealand play them, you know, South Africa is probably in
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better shape at the moment because you've got to get up and you've got to bash them,
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right?
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Because they big men with good feet and big men with good feet at the line, just get
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that half yard over their varnish line and then they get a roll on.
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Then you got DuPont.
9:00
The interesting thing about DuPont and if you're a guard dog, you know, you can't leave
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until he's passed and that slows the defensive line up.
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So, it's a real good combination.
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I mean, I've always said, Victor, I think I think, you know, I think they made a mistake
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against South Africa and the World Cup because I think they played DuPont too long, you
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know, been out for four weeks, right?
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And it was went down to the wire.
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So, you know, I just think that though, you know, the three sides we're chatting about,
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and I guess we have to wait to see what New Zealand's going to come up with from a coaching
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point of view.
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But France and South Africa are definitely the two best sides in the world for for sure.
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For me, it will be interesting to see when some markets back what they're going to do.
9:44
Do they put him back at 10?
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I won't mind that as a South African or do they keep jelly bear at 10?
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That will be interesting.
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Well, they move for Cologne, didn't they?
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So, I mean, could he put into that play 12?
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You know, I don't think so.
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I'm not in today's game.
10:00
You need a 12.
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I'm thinking about that.
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I want to slide.
10:03
Yeah.
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You need a big strong 12.
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Yeah.
10:07
Actually, just quickly going back to the England, Scotland game, the title of the clip
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on YouTube was Rugby's greatest rivalry.
10:16
Yeah.
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But they play for the Billy Troff, yeah.
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There's another one playing for the eight side, the two real teams.
10:29
I mean, that's a beauty.
10:30
That's a beauty of Rugby Ricotta just to talk about that.
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I know that we talk about a greatest rivalry in it is, but the beauty of any sport
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is that rivalry, you know, and I think I don't know whether it's a great rivalry
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because if you speak to anyone in the UK and France, they're all rivals.
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They're all rivals against Buddy, against England anyway, so I don't know if you ask
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the Welsh, they want to bet the English, if you ask the Irish, they want to bet the English
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as well.
11:01
You know, I don't know if that's a true statement there.
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Everyone just wants to bet England, so does that a rivalry or not?
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I just want to give you the players perspective, you know, obviously both play the lot of rugby.
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Someone like George Ford, who was instrumental in the England's win over the All Blacks.
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And suddenly there's a loss to Scotland and everyone's questioning whether he's good enough
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and should he have taken the dropkick and, you know, and we've got to get someone else
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in there to open up the game, et cetera, et cetera.
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What's that?
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How do you deal with that rollercoaster in the player?
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Where one minute, you're the greatest player in the answer to all the problems.
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And then the next minute, after a loss, everyone wants to get rid of you.
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How do you deal with that psychologically?
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You need to have to, you need to have an utter support of your coach and then the team
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need to know that you're driving the football team.
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The biggest thing that a first five can't do is lose his confidence verbally when he's lost a little bit of form.
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Because if he's still driving the football team and he's still telling the forwards what to do
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and he's tactically driving them around, he'll be okay.
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But he really needs the support of his coach.
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And then just talking briefly from a coach's point of view, because Victor can do the same,
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it's really, really important from a coach's point of view, you decide who your tennis.
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And I think Ireland have shown that, like, unsure of who we're going to go with.
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You've got to pick one and give him the football team, you know?
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And I understand that Ireland might have changed around a wee bit, but at some stage you've got to go, he's my guy.
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And they've been doing it the same with England, right?
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So forward your 10, he's just got to go.
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The football team's yours, mate.
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Where you go and let him play through ups and downs.
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That's interesting and all teams, you always get two or three guys when Emmett goes bad, the blame goes to them.
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And unfortunately with four, I think because he was for so long, he was number two for them.
13:00
Every time we get an opportunity, when it goes well, everyone say yes, he can.
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The moment goes hard, him and actually 3D Stewart as well.
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They get two of them and they get dropped and someone else get an opportunity.
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I think if you look at last year, I think it was against all Blacks when they were behind.
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It took a three job cause they got back in the game, they won the game.
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So I think he's been outstanding for them in the last two, three years.
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So if they point the fingers to four, I think it's definitely the wrong guy they're pointing to.
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I think even if they are 80% they write them up all the way.
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So I think it's not easy in England being a player because of English media.
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I'm just saying, I'm just saying Victor though, although I think having said what I said,
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I think Russi is changing that a wee bit.
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You know, he will pick horses for courses and all other positions and he started doing it at 10.
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But I think you need to have the quality of, right?
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And I don't think Ford at this stage has another two breathing down his neck
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to make it worthwhile not giving him the football team.
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You know, I'm sure Russi, you know, against us, he might play a bit more conservatively
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so he can pick who he wants.
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So I think Russi has changed that model a wee bit, but I think Ford is the standout player
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and he should just play.
14:25
And in the other game, Ireland, Italy, what was the take out of that?
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Was it Ireland's back on track or Italy again,
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the course of real problems in those six nations?
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No, Jacob and Italy better.
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I think they have better team that people think,
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but I think if Italy plays,
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however, the all black sales still get a big hiding.
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I still don't think they're quite up there.
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I don't think Ireland's confidence on to it should be.
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They still have a great team.
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They're back as still struggling.
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I mean, they scrummed a problem.
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And if you think about that Ireland front row,
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a great experience, everyone thought they will be the bridge-highest line's front row as well.
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And they lost confidence after last year.
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So, yeah, Ireland will have to fight their way back getting that confidence back
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and they probably need a game against Scotland, England winning a game like that
15:23
just to feel the sin we stole there.
15:26
I'm really proud of their tans.
15:28
I think Kusata isn't a great coach.
15:30
You know, as it started from, say,
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the thing I like about this Italian side is they're playing rugby.
15:36
You know, they are not conservative.
15:38
You know, I think their center-pearing is world-class.
15:42
I do think they lack real size and mobility at lock.
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I think their locks are really honest-fifty.
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You know, they're not big men, but they're really honest and they work hard.
15:52
But I think at the next level, that'll affect them.
15:55
But I think they're so well drilled that if you're off your game,
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they're going to really have a crack at you.
16:00
I thought it was a really good performance.
16:02
From an Ireland point of view, I just think they've lost their confidence
16:05
that I really unsure in which direction they want to take
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and of what rugby players they want to take with them.
16:11
You know, I think when you think about the traditional Irish pack, don't you, Victor,
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you know, thinking about three massive loose forwards
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that are just like ball carriers, big hard-working locks.
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You know, and let's get back to the 10.
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I think you've got to understand they're young.
16:29
Is it their football team yet?
16:30
How they're showing the maturity to drive them around like they need to.
16:33
I used to talk about, you know, designed by numbers when you played Ireland.
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I mean, they were so well organised.
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You couldn't get the ball off them because they made no errors.
16:42
And six then would go three places to the right, swing back
16:46
and then have guys running off them.
16:47
I don't see that organisation around the football anymore.
16:51
And it's interesting because I think using the coaching staff.
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And for me, it's just, I don't think they sure how they want to play.
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They had the style that Jacob is talking about
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to a 16 at 10 playing multi-phase, having all these options,
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running at it, and then they didn't win a World Cup.
17:09
And I wonder if they're thinking about myself.
17:12
Shouldn't we play like probably some of the other teams in the world
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that's winning big trophies?
17:19
Be more concertist, kick at certain areas
17:22
and rather just play close to the 22.
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And for me, they in between, I always say a team needs to know
17:28
how we win again.
17:30
And every team is different.
17:32
How do Ireland win big games?
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And that's something they need to understand.
17:36
Can you talk to me about this confidence thing?
17:38
You've mentioned it like a lot of times during the show.
17:43
But there's players, you know, no one doubts your ability,
17:46
but you've obviously gone through times
17:48
where your confidence is low.
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So when you were a player, how did you get out of that time?
17:53
I don't think...
17:55
Sorry, but do you go?
17:57
I don't think it's confidence.
17:58
I think it's a belief in the plan.
18:00
That's what I'm saying.
18:01
A team has got away how they want to play.
18:04
The moment you've got players, and especially if you've got senior players,
18:07
and the coach gives a plan and you would be out
18:09
on really doing the right thing,
18:11
it shouldn't redo this, shouldn't redo that, then you're in trouble.
18:14
And I think with Russie, that's one thing I can tell you.
18:18
Even if he does crazy stuff,
18:20
all the players believe in 100 percent.
18:22
Whatever he says, they want to go,
18:24
and they're excited to go and try it.
18:26
Where I think teams, like where Ireland is now,
18:28
is that in between...
18:30
We're defending like this, it may be at Lens,
18:32
we're defending like this at Ireland.
18:34
Which one is the better one?
18:36
In the rooms in the evening late,
18:38
they're talking about, are we doing the right thing?
18:40
And once you get there, you're in trouble.
18:43
Yeah, I think your question's too old, Ricardo.
18:46
You know, I've been lacking personal confidence,
18:50
but had complete confidence in the team.
18:53
And I always say it was always great playing for the All Blacks
18:55
because three of us could play average Lee,
18:57
and the team would still win,
18:58
and you'd probably get picked the following week, right?
19:01
And so you'd go through slumps,
19:03
and you sort of got a week or two to sort that out.
19:06
But I think what Victor mentioned correctly is,
19:09
you've got to have complete faith in what the coach wants to achieve.
19:14
And when the coach is sort of changing,
19:16
and when you're going through transition,
19:17
sometimes the players will question that,
19:19
and you need, you know, the win against Italy,
19:23
although it might have been ugly, and they just got through,
19:26
it could be worth its weight in gold
19:28
if they were trying some stuff and it came off, right?
19:31
The English defense out wide, I could not believe it at times.
19:34
I thought, wow, what are they doing?
19:36
And it just creates a little doubt,
19:39
and you need those little wins so that you go,
19:41
yeah, okay, we're on the right track.
19:44
And once you start doubting,
19:45
and once coaches start to try changing stuff,
19:47
it's really hard because the players start going,
19:49
well, I don't feel comfortable in this.
19:51
And so it's about having confidence in the system, you know?
19:55
And if you've got confidence in the system, you're fine.
19:59
Yeah, sorry, sorry, Victor,
20:01
suggesting that you ever lack confidence.
20:05
When?
20:06
Yeah.
20:08
What are you talking about?
20:10
I'm always there to be.
20:12
Always there to go.
20:14
The standard rugby and the Six Nations was exciting.
20:16
It was an, it's a great product.
20:18
It's exciting to watch.
20:20
School and England throwing the ball around.
20:22
You know, sometimes us in the Southern Hemisphere,
20:23
particularly in New Zealand,
20:24
we sort of look at the UK and we go,
20:27
ah, they don't play rugby like we do,
20:28
but I thought the rugby was great to watch.
20:32
And then Super Rugby started this weekend.
20:35
JK, what was your summary of the Super Rugby first round?
20:39
Sloppy.
20:41
Yeah, it was pretty sloppy.
20:42
And I, I don't think that's a problem.
20:45
I think it's round one.
20:46
It's like still February.
20:48
But it was pretty sloppy.
20:50
I thought, you know, the Holland is getting up
20:52
and against the Crusaders was, was a, was a good result.
20:56
I was obviously watching the Blues
20:58
and felt that the Blues probably were the better football side
21:01
and then just didn't finish off.
21:03
Couple of eras.
21:05
Really interesting that they're not taking shots
21:07
a goal victor, you know, like for me,
21:09
that was like a little bit weird.
21:11
But yeah, I just think it was a,
21:13
as a typical first week in a Super Rugby
21:15
and I expect next weekend to be way better.
21:18
Too many eras, you know, a bit sloppy,
21:21
not quite sure of the, of the systems.
21:24
But yeah, I mean, I agree with you.
21:27
I think the Northern Hemisphere,
21:28
when they get their balance right,
21:29
they're playing some, some pretty good footy.
21:32
And Super Rugby will probably take a few weeks
21:33
to get up to that level.
21:35
Yeah, do you watch any games, Victor?
21:38
Unfortunately not.
21:39
I'm in Cape Town for the weekends.
21:40
So then that's time.
21:43
Next week, I'll...
21:45
Here's, here's something that we'll introduce.
21:47
So the, the commission of the CEO of Super Rugby Jack,
21:51
measly, great, great man.
21:53
But he raised some interesting points.
21:55
He, he talked during the week about,
21:57
he feels that the, he's Australian.
21:59
He feels that the competition of Super Rugby
22:02
is better without the South Africans.
22:04
I see.
22:05
And that's why I don't know.
22:06
Jake, I always go on that we deserted you guys.
22:10
Look, you've got a better product now.
22:11
So you must be happy without the South Africans there.
22:14
Yeah.
22:15
Now that's, that's bullshit.
22:16
Like the CEO has to say that.
22:19
So what is Super Rugby?
22:21
Is it a competition or is it a high performance competition
22:26
to prepare us for test matches, right?
22:30
So, so for me and Jacob, when we played at Super Rugby was,
22:34
I'm telling you the best competition in the world.
22:36
I get bluespump thinking about it, waking up as a kid.
22:39
I mean, looking at the blues running everyone wild
22:43
in the beginning days in the Crusaders,
22:44
taking over, then we coming through.
22:47
I mean, every Saturday morning,
22:48
I was up at full five watching the games
22:51
and the evening, that was the closest to test match
22:53
that you could get.
22:55
And I thought it was probably tougher to win a Super Rugby
22:57
than a World Cup because you need to perform
23:00
at a high level for 12 weeks.
23:01
Then you need maybe to go overseas
23:03
and win a semi-final in New Zealand or whatever.
23:06
Where a World Cup, you probably only need to win three tough games.
23:09
But I mean, it was a brilliant competition.
23:13
When it was Super 10, Super 12,
23:16
even in Super 14, I still think.
23:17
I think after that, when they started going to this pool system,
23:23
it lost a little bit and we're standing now
23:26
that two guys can only tell.
23:28
Yeah, well, I understand why he said that.
23:32
I just do not agree with them at all.
23:35
I don't agree with them from a high performance point of view
23:38
because I think we are missing the physique
23:42
and the style of rugby that South Africa bring.
23:45
So from a high performance point of view,
23:47
I think we've gone backwards.
23:48
So that, and when I say go backwards,
23:51
that means the leap from Super Rugby to Test Rugby
23:54
is way bigger than it used to be.
23:57
I would love to see the data around the crowds and stuff.
24:01
I just don't think that what he said was on the money for me.
24:08
Yeah, and there's, you know,
24:10
you just see those South African stadiums.
24:12
You know, they're great supporters of their team.
24:14
So, yeah, I think you're right, J.K.
24:17
He's doing his job.
24:18
He's promoting his competition, understand that.
24:21
But, you know, I think the position of this show
24:23
is that rivalry is important.
24:25
And the more we see it, you know,
24:28
be at a test level or at Super Rugby level, we love it.
24:33
And you need it to be competitive.
24:35
You need to be close.
24:36
You mustn't know what's going to happen.
24:38
And that's a beauty of it.
24:40
What about this August May?
24:42
We're back in South Africa, the six weeks May.
24:47
What about that for a rivalry?
24:49
We all ready for you guys to come and visit the shores.
24:54
Or so that's exactly.
24:55
And the only positive thing about you guys
24:59
deserting us in Super Rugby is that we don't know.
25:03
We don't know.
25:04
We're going to be going to Blum Fontaine.
25:05
We're going to be going and bloody, smacking hits.
25:08
It's going to be fun.
25:10
It's going to be great fun.
25:11
It's going to be the best thing ever.
25:14
Yeah, no for sure.
25:15
Come down, you sound like a UFC fighter, JK,
25:17
but like a really old one.
25:19
Yeah, that is that I would never do that sport.
25:23
I would never do that sport.
25:25
No way.
25:26
No, no, no, you all right.
25:27
Let's wrap it up there.
25:30
We've got some, you know, rugby is really coming.
25:32
We've got the URC, we've got Super Rugby,
25:34
we've got the Six Nations, it's really coming to life.
25:36
We'll catch you on Rivals next week.
25:38
Cheers, boys.