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Cubs mailbag: Why do they keep getting lapped by the Brewers? · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Welcome into Northside territory file territory networks, Cubs podcast. I'm
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Sahadev Sharma with my partner, Patrick Mooney. We are your
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Cubs beat writers over at the athletic Patrick. It is
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: time for a mailbag episode. And after Wednesday night where
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: the Cubs have been swept by the Milwaukee Brewers, uh,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: who continue to dominate the NL central, who just are, um,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: a level above the Cubs, at least in the regular season.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: there is plenty of frustration about that game and that
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: series and just the differences in the organization. And I
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: think it kind of, it's kind of perfect to talk
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: about it in that, just in that context, Cubs versus Brewers,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: because it does address like it does address like the
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: overall issues with the Cubs as well. The Cubs are
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: not a terror. I think it's important to say like
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: the Cubs aren't terrible. The Cubs are a playoff quality team. Uh,
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: this isn't like a, an utter disaster. Uh, this is
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: a really difficult moment in the season happening at a
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: terrible time, but this is still a playoff quality team,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: whether they blow this and, and, and fall out of
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: the playoff race, which has suddenly become possible is something
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: we can, we'll see over the next two weeks. But, uh,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Last night's game brought about some doubters of Craig Council, right?
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: It happened on Monday night, and that's what the first
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: question is here. Jamie Weiss wants to know, what possible
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: reason would Council have for pinch-hitting a rookie with one
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: MLB hit for a guy that crushed a big double
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: off their closer the night before?
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you have thoughts on this, Patrick.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: I can give you what I immediately— looked up when,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: when this happened and what I wanted to know and
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: what I thought of. But I'm curious if you were, if,
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: if you have thoughts on like what your takeaway was
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: seeing that.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: No, I want to hear, uh, your, your, your research.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: I'm assuming this is a Carson Kelly, uh, reference.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, so Carson Kelly, so what, the situation
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: BJ Murray jr.
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: BJ Murray jr. Pinch hit for Carson Kelly. The Cubs
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: are down eight to one come back and it's eight
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: to six Abner Abner Uribe is in the game. Now
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: they forced the closer in the game of a game.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: That was a blowout in the ninth inning. Two outs
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: man on BJ Murray comes in to face Abner Uribe
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: pinch hits for Carson Kelly. Carson Kelly had a big
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: double yesterday off Trevor McGill. It, So first of all,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: why did Craig Council do that? He had a very
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: simple answer. Abner Uribe has, you know, like righties or
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: have a 370 OPS against Abner Uribe. He completely dominates righties.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: It's not like, uh, there's just not much of a
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: debate there. Like, uh, You can say, then why didn't
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: he pinch hit for Nico Horner earlier? Well, it wasn't
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: a situation then. It wasn't a game then. It wasn't
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: close then. And also, you have to pick the right spot.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: You can't pinch hit for everyone. That said, why didn't
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: he pinch hit for Carson Kelly the night before? Well,
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Carson Kelly was the pinch hitter in that situation.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: And also.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Trevor McGill is a different pitcher and he has reverse splits.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: It just isn't a close decision. Now, I think the
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: question is, why did it should just be like, is
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: it smart to put the that rookie that has one
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: hit in there? I don't care who it is, whether
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: it's Carson Kelly, whoever, like, you know, a right hander
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: that struggled. whoever, is it smart to put this rookie
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: that barely has any at-bats? I think the quick answer
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: would be he's on the roster. If he's on the
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: roster and he's the left-handed hitter that you have available,
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: either he shouldn't be on the roster because you're just like,
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: if you're not going to call upon him, then he
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: shouldn't be on the roster.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: He's there. You got to call upon him.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: And immediately, the second I saw him on deck, I
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: thought of this situation. It was 2023. It was July 3rd, 2023.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: bases loaded, one out, Brewers down by three in like
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: the seventh or eighth inning at Milwaukee. Craig Council pinch
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: hits Jesse Winker. Ross counters by bringing in a lefty,
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: Anthony Kaye. Council immediately pinch hits Jemai Jones. Jemai Jones...
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Hadn't had a major league at bat in two years.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: I remember thinking like, this is insane. He's bringing in
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: a guy that hasn't had a major league at bat
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: in two years. Jeremiah Jones gets a basing clearing double.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: And Cubs fans are ranting and raving. This is why
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Craig Council is a master manager. He's out thinking David Ross.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: He did exactly what he wanted him to. He didn't
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: do exactly what he wanted him to. He just was
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: playing the percentages. He brought a righty in. Of course
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: you want Jesse Winker up there over Jemai Jones. Jesse
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: Winker is a veteran. And Jemai Jones is a guy
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: that hadn't had a bat in two years. So it like,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: he's just going to do this. I'm not saying that
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: he nailed the Jemai Jones move in the BJ Murray
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: move was brilliant as well. I'm just saying he's going
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: to play the percentages here. It's as simple as Abner
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Uribe dominates righties. Like it's not like close lefties had
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: like a six 50 OPS, not great, but still double almost,
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: you know, nearly double what, what they hit, what did
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: they do against what he does against righties? It, It
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: was like a no-win situation. The bench had been depleted.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: That's who you have available. I just don't think that's.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: I get it.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: It's frustrating to see B.J. Murray up there when the
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: guy's never done it. Had a big moment in the
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: big leagues and Carson Kelly just had a big hit.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: But I just.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: Don't... You can't manage off your gut. You gotta go
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: with the numbers.
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, also don't be down seven runs in the ninth inning.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: Then your decisions will look better. But it was a
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: good question. I was curious about that myself, so I'm
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: with Jamie on that one.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it looks terrible. It's terrible optics. Like,
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: I see BJ Murray, and I immediately turn to.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: Our buddy Jesse. I'm like, Jesse, look who's on deck.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: Because he wasn't paying attention fully. He was like, man,
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: they're coming back. This is crazy.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: And then he looks, he's like, what the hell is
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: going on? You know, he was shocked, too. uh, it,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: it was a shocking thing to see. I can't deny that,
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: but I, I also get the move. Like you gotta,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: gotta use the guys that you have. Like, and that's
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: the percentage play. I, I also get the counter argument
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: that it's like, he has no experience.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Is that really the percentage play?
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: We could, we could debate this forever. I, but I
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: under like counsel, this is what counsel does. And I
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: gave you the example of why, like, you know, from
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: the past, uh, how he does it.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: Look, we're going to get these questions.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: We've gotten these questions forever, Patrick, and we're going to
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: keep getting this question, I think, whenever the Cubs play
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: the Brewers. Are people in the Cubs organization as frustrated
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: as Cubs fans are with continually getting embarrassed by the
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Brewers year in and year out? That's from Justin Dvorak.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: What do you got, Patrick?
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: Definitely frustrated. Definitely embarrassed.
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: I think that is what makes this Brewers rivalry so
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: interesting from our perspective is because you gotta be thinking
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: there are people in the Cubs organization, uh, who look
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: at the payroll disparity and are like, what, what is
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: going on? Why are they lapping us in this regard
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: when we're spending roughly a hundred million more? Sometimes it fluctuates,
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: but you know, the years change, the budgets change and
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: the brewers still, uh, are on top.
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: Of the Cubs.
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: I think it is becoming the story of this season.
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: I obviously Pete's MVP season as.
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: Well, but you know, the Cubs are riding pretty high
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: when they, when the Brewers came into Wrigley early this
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: season and they swept them. And, you know, I had
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: a Cubs player, you know, in hindsight, look back on
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: it and say, you know, we weren't, quite at full strength,
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: not making excuses now, but like, that's how, you know,
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: you have to put context around, you know, some of
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: these series and, you know, you see what happens at
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: the end of the year, um, you know, both at Wrigley, uh,
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: and up in Milwaukee. And like, there's just no doubt
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: that they are the better team. And, you know, if
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: the Cubs somehow, uh, make the playoffs and win a
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: first round and wind up playing Milwaukee, maybe they have
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: a chance to sort of change the narrative here. But
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: right now, it just really in all areas makes the
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: Cubs look lesser than. Obviously, Council's history in Milwaukee, they
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: have not slowed down since he left the way they draft.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: the way they develop the way they cultivate pitching uh
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: the way they bring in international players um.
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: Just outstanding uh across the board.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Uh i would I would say this, I'd say organizationally,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: it's clear the Brewers are better. Like when top to bottom,
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: when you're looking at the full organization, are they light
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: years ahead currently at the major league level? I think
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: the difference is pitching. And I think that's obvious. And that's,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: that's part of the organizational part that I'm talking about.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: But I don't think they're light. I know they're 10
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: games ahead. I know, I know they're, they're, they're, they're
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: the better team right now. record wise, there's no doubt.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: I don't think the Cubs, I think the Cubs have
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: closed the gap talent wise at the major league level.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: Uh, am I concerned about the future? Like 2028? Yeah. Yeah.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Uh, 20 what's.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: What's Carter's year? 2031. Yeah. The brewers still look better. Um,
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: like they, they have a bright future.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I can say that about the
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: Cubs and, Uh, I think they have a good core here.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: They have a good group of players, but the lack
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: of pitching development is a concern. We're going to keep
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: talking about this. This is a, there's more questions about
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: this and, and it's just, it's an issue and it's
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: something that has to be addressed. And I, but I
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: will say like the Cubs aren't just like there's, there's
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: not as big of a gap as far as current
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: major league teams. I do not think that the brewers
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: are just like, how can the Cubs compete with them? Uh, it,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: And I did feel like that a couple years ago.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: The Cubs have closed the gap there, major league level,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: but pitching's a problem right now, especially the bullpen. And
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: then there's just moments where the Brewers just do the
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: little things. The Cubs did play a sloppy series. I
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: think they made two errors yesterday that led to runs.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: That doesn't normally happen with this group, but it was
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Nico Horner at shortstop and Pedro Ramirez at second. Both
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: great defenders, but these things happen. Let's take a quick break, Patrick,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: and then come back and take more questions.
• 12:25
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• 13:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's see what this next question is. Okay, do
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: you think it's time... Jed and Carter revised their method
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: of building a bullpen on the cheap. I think there's
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: a multiple levels to this. We're going to touch on
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: a different part of it, uh, later in the episode, but, um, no, I,
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: I don't. I think they, they actually go back to
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: leaning into that because the guys they spent on, uh,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: Phil Maton and Hunter Harvey didn't work. Like they, That's
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: the reason the bullpen's bad, because they invested in guys
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: and they haven't done anything this season. Like, Maton was
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: bad and hurt. Harvey was hurt. Like, they got nothing
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: out of these guys. And you can make the argument
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: that they should have spent on established guys, but we've
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: talked about this a lot, Patrick, but go look at
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: the list. Pete Fairbanks, Devin Williams, Edwin Diaz, none of
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: them had good seasons. They were either hurt or ineffective
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: or both. There are other names. Robert Suarez, great season
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: for when he was on the mound.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: He was hurt.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: He's been hurt a lot. If you want to say
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: they should have traded for someone like Duran or Mason
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Miller last deadline, you know, 2025 deadline, I'll listen.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: To that argument.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: The overpay for those guys pay way too much. I
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: don't think they could have gotten Mason Miller. They didn't
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: have the talent. Maybe they could have gotten Duran, someone
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: like David Bednar. Maybe that's the argument. pay up for
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: one of those guys a year and a half ago
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: uh but spending in free agency on on relievers is
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: a crapshoot and a really bad idea and it often
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: doesn't work i know there's frustration right now and you
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: want uh some dominant reliever in there that that kind
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: of cleans up all these messes I just like it
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: over and over and over again. It's proven that spending
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: big on relievers does not work. There is another answer
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: to this that I, the problem goes deeper than this.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: It is not spending though.
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: I would argue that they have revised it already, whether
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: it's the May time deal, I've given up Moises by
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: Asteros and Mason McGuire for Ryan Zephyr. John, obviously you
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: have to be right when you, push those resources in
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: that direction that obviously Maiton did not work out this year.
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: Zephyr John we'll see.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: It's been kind of spotty thus far, but even if
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: he was.
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: Awesome right now, he'd still have to prove it in
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: these small samples in the biggest games of the year.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: And whether or not it's time, I would have to
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: think that you're looking at potentially five free agents walking
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: from your rotation at the end of the year. So
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: whatever money you got, whatever prospects you got are probably
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: going to be pushed towards the rotation, which I think
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: everyone agrees is kind of what you.
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: Have to do.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: So I don't– I honestly haven't looked too closely at
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: the free agent relievers coming up. I just know how
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: many free agent starters they're going to have to acquire.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: And so I think what you'll see again is basically
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: what they did with Andrew Kittredge. I believe it was
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: a $ 9 million club option for this year. They sent
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: him back to the Orioles, which I believe negated... like
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: a million dollar buyout, whatever, whether it's eight or nine
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: million dollars, whatever you're kind of looking at, the Cubs
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: viewed it as, well, we'd rather take eight shots on
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: relievers at one million per versus the eight or nine
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: million dollars on Andrew.
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: Kittredge's, say, mid-30s season.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: I don't know if he's 35, 36, but just that
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: idea of they think they can keep finding guys. I
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: think They sort of have this year, even.
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: Though they're running out of guys now.
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: But, yeah, more Ryan Rollison's, more Trent Thornton's, obviously Jacob Webb's.
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: So I think that's probably the way, though.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: And we'll see, too, whatever economic system comes out of
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: these labor negotiations as well.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you're listening to this answer right now
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: and screaming about the obvious thing that we're leaving out,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: player development, we'll address that in a moment. There's more
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: questions coming. Mike McElwee asks about help coming for the bullpen.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Shelby Miller, Jackson Wiggins, is anyone coming to save them?
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: This seems pretty brutal right now. It does seem pretty
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: brutal right now.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: So, okay, this is.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: This is the most frustrating thing when watching bullpen struggle.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: You just think it's going to last forever and that
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: these guys stink and that they cannot pitch and that
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: they're unusable.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: I'll say this. I'm concerned about Daniel Palencia. He's getting
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: no swing and miss.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Guys are not. He's not missing bats. I'm a little
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: concerned about that. I think Ryan Zephyr John is taking
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: baby steps forward. I think you need like a big step.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: to kind of like start feeling comfortable with them.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: Jacob Webb. It was two weeks ago that he was.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: On like a 25 inning run, scoreless run. That was
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: probably a little lucky, you know, I shouldn't say probably
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: a little lucky. There was probably a little luck involved
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: in that.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: Good luck.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: He's on a terrible run now, including three, You know,
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: two out to two run homers that all either won
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: or tied a game in the bottom of the ninth inning.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: That is a little bit of bad luck, too. So, like,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: he needs to even out here. he needs to kind
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: of get the luck back on his side he needs
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: to execute better some of these pitches are terrible um
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: he bad pitches he's got to execute better um and like,
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: so you need to correct some of these guys that
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: you have. Uh, I think field bars actually looked a
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: lot better of late. I know they, he was on
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: the mound when they lost Tuesday night. I didn't think
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: he looked terrible. He got the big out and Bowers, um,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Shelby Miller is probably going to be here at some
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: point in the next week. Like a, like a week
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: from now, Shelby Miller's probably on the roster. I would
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: think you got to give him a shot. I, you know, um,
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: I don't think Jackson Wiggins is coming up here. He
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: doesn't have enough time to prove himself. Like it just,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: it's unlikely. Justin Steele, maybe, um, can he like, how
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: much can he pitch? How, uh, how's the stuff actually looking? Um,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: after that, is there Edward Cabrera? Maybe like, I'm just
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: not loving what I'm seeing at triple a from him,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: but it's maybe it, maybe it'll work. Uh, and then
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: you also have to consider like, where are the spots
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: for these guys? Like you send down Javier Assad, I
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: guess for Shelby Miller. And then like, like, are you
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: just getting rid of guys and are you comfortable doing that?
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess.
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: Could you option Palencia? I mean, um, man, you need options.
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: I mean, from my understanding, like you option a guy, uh,
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: that still sort of carries over into October, I believe.
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: I think there, there's some consideration there as well of
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: sort of like, if you option a guy, when can
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: you get them back? And I do think Palencia is
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: a guy that they, that they need. Cause he just
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: represents something different. And when he's on, he's been a
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: lot better, but yeah, no one's coming to save them.
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: Maybe Shelby Miller surprises us. It'd be a really cool story.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: He does have, really electric stuff and a really interesting backstory.
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: But again, I think you underwent Tommy John at this
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: time last year. So like it's asking a lot.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: It's they're in a rough situation. Like everyone has imploded.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: Everyone is struggling. Like it's like I said, maybe you
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: could make the argument that Zephyr John is taking steps
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: forward and deal bar is looking better. Ryan Rolison has
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: been solid. Um, I did ask Craig Council about Aaron Savali.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: Do you change his role? Talk to Aaron Savali about,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: you know, would you be, could you be.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: Used more often?
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: And I think Craig gave the diplomatic answer without saying
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: that I don't know if I can use him twice
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: in three days. He basically said he's in a role
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: that he can thrive in right now. And it's an
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: important role. Eating, he ate five innings. His point was,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: He had five innings over the span of five games.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Relievers don't do that that often. I think it was
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: about five games because he closed out Friday's win in Miami,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: and then it was two innings in a tie game
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: on Tuesday. I think he's moving him into more high
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: leverage moments.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: He looks good.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know if he feels like he can do like,
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: the eighth inning on a Tuesday, the eighth inning on
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: a Thursday and a Friday. Like, can he do that?
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: I don't like, there's no history of him doing that.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: So it's tough to, to throw that on his plate suddenly. I,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: you know, and he has a role that he's doing
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: well and I get counsel's point there, but I mean, that's,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: and he had a question about, do you put Colin
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Ray in high leverage situations? Like, I think the questions
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: are taught, like are giving us answers about like how
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: desperate this situation is.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Colin Ray's not a high leverage reliever. Like I, Colin
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Ray's a really nice.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Depth starter, like your seventh starter, your sixth starter when
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: injuries hit and he, and he needs to start. It's
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: just a, it's gotten to a point where it's like,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: how did this happen so quickly of like, You just
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: don't have answers. Remember two weeks ago we were talking
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: about they have so many guys coming and things are
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: looking okay. The bullpen isn't a mess, but hey, they
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: have reinforcements coming. That Ben Brown setback. At least he
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: could stabilize some things. Yeah, this is a problem. Let's
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: take a quick break and we'll come back and talk
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: more pitching.
• 24:33
  Speaker 7: The postseason run is heating up for Major League Baseball teams. Kratzy,
• 24:36
  Speaker 7: you can go see all these games, all the important games.
• 24:39
  Speaker 7: Whatever your team is, they have a great chance, almost
• 24:42
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• 24:44
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• 24:47
  Speaker 7: whatever game you want, whatever matchup you want to try
• 24:50
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• 24:53
  Speaker 6: Yeah, look ahead of your schedule.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: Go on to SeatGeek.
• 24:56
  Speaker 8: Essentially, your team's either in the playoffs or the team
• 24:58
  Speaker 8: they're playing has a chance in the playoffs. So all
• 25:01
  Speaker 8: these games in September, you got to get on there,
• 25:04
  Speaker 8: get your green dot, figure out where you're going to sit,
• 25:08
  Speaker 8: do it ahead of time, and use the codes.
• 25:11
  Speaker 7: And of course, I have a code for y'all. You
• 25:13
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• 25:16
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• 25:23
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• 25:31
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• 25:34
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: One last question, and it is from a regular Tyler Dershowell.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: Do the Cubs have an evaluation problems in terms of
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: long-term pitching in the bullpen? Feels like the constant reloading
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: year after year doesn't happen comparatively to the Brewers.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Your thoughts, Patrick?
• 25:57
  Speaker 7: Yes, I think.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Simple answer.
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, like the Brewers do have, you know, different.
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: Circumstances in terms of some of the trades they make
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: that if i think if the cubs made certain trades
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: like that uh they would rightly get crushed for doing
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: that um i gotta look up is this the time
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: where one of theo's old quotes about you know the
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: cardinals and brewers getting extra draft picks and bigger and
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: the uh you know uh equivalent uh signing bonus increases
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: um I was looking at Tyler's question and thinking like
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: baseball shuts down.
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: Whatever it is, the night of December 1st or December 2nd.
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: I think this has got to be like the project
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: of every single pitcher that you can talk to because
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: they're not the guys in the system who are not
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: on the 40 man. I think it's kind of going
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: all in on that and trying to ring more out
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: of what you have. We've seen, these advances in technology
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: and examples of how pitchers can improve in certain areas
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: over with certain programs. I think you have to do
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: kind of a top to bottom reevaluation of, you know,
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: how comes to de-emphasize scouts over the years. They've turned
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: up the models really high. They've had, you know, some
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: changes behind the scenes. I'm not saying that to like
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: point blame or say like, Oh my God, you know,
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: Craig Breslow left and what are they going to do? Like,
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: but I mean, Breslow had a big imprint on it.
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: Obviously Tyler Zombros has influence on it. I think the
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: Cubs continue to draft hitters who quickly become assets. I
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: think they're pitching at the major league level overall has been,
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: pretty good year over year. But just all of it,
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: we even talked about kind of healthcare and the injuries
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: that have happened. I think that's something that has to
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: be evaluated. Again, not saying blaming some like trainer at
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: the lower level, but more of just like, okay, how
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: can they get better in all of these areas to
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: try to catch up to the brewers.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: Uh you look at the brewers i'm just looking at
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: some of their best relievers uh trevor mcgill you know
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: he was with the cubs and he and he struggled
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: mightily but this is like typical type of pickup that
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: the cubs would have that that has worked for them
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: in the past like you're cycling through like different guys
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: with talent that haven't clicked yet um they they let
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: them go too early it happens i mean they sometimes
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: take advantage of guys that Other teams let go. Sometimes
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: the 40-man churn bites you. Aaron Ashby, draft pick. Abner Uribe,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: international free agent. Shane Drohan is the Freddie Peralta trade.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: It's a trade.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know which one. Boston, it was a Boston trade.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: It was that big trade with Boston. They got Kyle Harrison, right?
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: Uh, Chad Patrick. Yeah.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh, Chad Patrick, uh, draft pick, I believe, or no,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: he was a small trade deal.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: Hall, another trade.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: They just have– they make these– they make trades that
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: the Cubs, like you said, can't get away with. But
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: it's also draft picks and international– like Abner Uribe is
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: an international free agent. Like the Cubs don't have– you know,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: a lot of success stories in international free agency right now.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: They don't have a lot of like just pitching success
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: stories with draft and development. Like this is a focus.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: And I, you know, I, they're going to be more
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: changes made. They're going to be more adjustments made. It is.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: Like you said, I don't want to put it just
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: on Breslau, but Breslau felt like it was going in
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: the right direction. And now it felt like they've taken
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: two steps back and, and, uh, Zombrow has a huge say.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: In these things. I think VP of pitching is his title, right?
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: That was a Breslau's title before he became assistant GM. Uh,
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: he like, he needs to start making a big imprint here.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: And like, can it be a quick like turnaround? Is
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: there like, obviously he, uh, I mean, Dan Kantrovitz, uh,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: mentioned him multiple times when talking about the draft is
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: a big imprint of the draft. He like, Talent acquisition
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: is also a big part of his job. He's going
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: to have a lot of say in how things are done.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Can he turn things around? I think it's a problem.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know how quickly these things can change, but
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: the fact that I think in an ideal world, maybe
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: you have one big money reliever and then You have
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: like a bunch of dice rolls on cheaper guys.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: You have a bunch of dice rolls on NRIs.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: And you have four Jackson Wiggins at AA and AAA
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: instead of one. And hope two of them click over
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: the course of the year and you can call upon them.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Hope two of the NRIs click. Hope two of the
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: $ 1. 5 million Jacob Webb signings click. And then you have
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: your big money guy that you're supposed to trust.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: That's how you– Yeah, that's what you need.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: And then you have more depth and hope like guys
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: develop over the course of the season and you continue
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: the churn of like picking guys up and and cycling
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: through different guys on the 40 man.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: It didn't work this year.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: And, you know, and all the the like grabbing of
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: NRIs that that can't stop.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: And that's and I do not think spending money is
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: the answer.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: It's development. It's drafting and development. You have to have
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: more pitching in the system.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: They do not.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: They do not have enough pitching in the system. It
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: is a major problem, and we have been talking about
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: this since– I mean, come on. This has been an
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: issue since 2011. They had some blips there. There was–
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, Justin Steele, Albert Alzulay, Javier Asad. There's
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: some others I'm missing, like Porter Hodge briefly. you know,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: like you've had some blips where you've been like, okay,
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: there's like, I'm seeing more talent come at least. I'm
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: seeing more guys that they drafted or developed or a
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: bit in the system for a long time that they
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: made tweaks to.
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: That.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: There's something's working here and it's just not like, there's
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: not enough there.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: It's not there.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: It stopped again. And, and you know, like Jed talked
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: about it last winter, he was frustrated with it last winter. And, and,
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: And my guess is it's going to be a huge
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: point of focus.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: It already is.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: So, you know, it has to change. There's just like,
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: you know, Tyler's right. The Brewers are much better at it.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: And I'll say this. This is my last thing on it.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: You want to talk about everything different between the Cubs
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: and the Brewers. The Brewers do a lot of things differently.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: The difference is the pitching.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Like the Cubs have the better offense. The Cubs have
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: the better defense. pitching is not close. It is not close.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: And that has been the difference. And it's so important
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: and it's cost them games and it's cost them the division.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: And you really hope it doesn't cost them a playoff
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: spot because this is.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: A really talented team. Great offense, great defense.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: When you have like elite areas, two really important areas
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: you're elite at, you just hope they can like things
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: can come together over these final weeks and they can
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: get like a stable pitching. And then you kind of
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: put it together and get creative in the, in the
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: post season. But woof, like this is, this has been a,
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: like the.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: Gap does seem big.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: I get the frustration from fans. Uh, All right, we
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: will be back next week. We'll see if we're talking
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: about better things. They need to get some wins against,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: it's the Pirates, right? The Pirates this weekend coming to town.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Then some tough ones against the Atlanta Braves. We'll see
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: how they do against them, but we'll be talking to
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: you soon. Thanks so much for watching, listening. This is
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: Northside Territory. Make sure to rate, review, subscribe. Subscribe to
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: the YouTube channel and subscribe to The Athletic where Patrick
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: and I are on top of all things Cubs. Thanks
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: for listening and watching, everyone. Take care.