Latest / Constellations and all that... / 68. Exploring 5 Elements Constellation Work & the Field with Emerson Bastos

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68. Exploring 5 Elements Constellation Work & the Field with Emerson Bastos · Constellations and all that...

• 0:00
  Tracy: Kiona and welcome to Constellations and all that.
• 0:03
  Tracy: I'm your host, Tracy Cartwright, and together we will be exploring the world of family constellations with facilitators for and clients from around the world, looking at different perspectives and experiences in the work, having a cup of tea, and just chatting with some friends around their experiences in constellations.
• 0:23
  Tracy: We'd love for you to join us.
• 0:25
  Tracy: I hope that you enjoy this series as much as I have loved making it.
• 0:33
  Tracy: Kiara, everyone, welcome to Constellations and all that Today I have the pleasure.
• 0:39
  Tracy: I'm all the way in London today, uh, from my home in Funday, chatting with Emerson Bastos, Kiana Emerson.
• 0:47
  Emerson: Hello Tracy.
• 0:49
  Emerson: Thanks so much for inviting me to be here.
• 0:51
  Emerson: You are welcome.
• 0:52
  Emerson: I've been really looking forward to.
• 0:54
  Emerson: To meet you again since, uh, Mexico, and to just have a chat, as you said, over a capa
• 1:00
  Tracy: over a capa.
• 1:00
  Tracy: That's it.
• 1:01
  Tracy: So I know that you've listened to some of my podcasts, so I'm gonna invite you to just to share a little bit about yourself.
• 1:08
  Tracy: So rather than me introduce you just from your own words so that the listeners and the viewers can, uh, grasp a glimpse of who you are.
• 1:17
  Emerson: Okay, my full name is Za Bas.
• 1:20
  Emerson: I was born in Brazil, uh, 65 or almost 65 years ago, and I lived there for 26 years as, as it's very common in Brazil.
• 1:32
  Emerson: So my bas is from my father, uh, who died about 13 years ago.
• 1:38
  Emerson: And, uh.
• 1:39
  Emerson: My ancestry on his side is mostly Portuguese, but also Native Brazilians and West Africans.
• 1:49
  Emerson: Uh, yes, yes.
• 1:52
  Emerson: And I have my, I have done my DNA so it shows the percentage, so, which is really amazing.
• 1:57
  Emerson: And on my mother's side, which is the Lazarin part, her father is Italian, uh, and the mother is.
• 2:06
  Emerson: Was born in Brazil, but uh, has a lot of Portuguese Spanish background there.
• 2:10
  Emerson: And, and then, and then there is a little bit of Irish British that I don't know where it comes from.
• 2:16
  Emerson: I suspect from my mother's, mother's sides.
• 2:18
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 2:19
  Tracy: And
• 2:19
  Emerson: now I am in London.
• 2:20
  Emerson: I have been here for 30, nearly 39 years now.
• 2:24
  Emerson: So, yes, so that puts in, it's a bit of a context, my ancestry, where I'm from.
• 2:32
  Emerson: Uh, and where I live and, uh, I do feel like I have.
• 2:35
  Emerson: London is my home.
• 2:37
  Emerson: Uh, and I feel very home very much at home here.
• 2:41
  Emerson: I feel very much at home when I go to Brazil, but uh, London is my home.
• 2:45
  Tracy: DNA is great, isn't it, for finding out some of those family secrets?
• 2:49
  Emerson: Yes, I do recommend that for everybody.
• 2:52
  Emerson: Is uh, for, because for me, when I did the DNA my, at the time, my interest was, I was hoping they were gonna show me which native Brazilian region like comes from, but they said Native American, which could be anywhere in the South, central or North America.
• 3:10
  Emerson: So it was not very helpful on that front.
• 3:13
  Emerson: But then they put that, uh uh.
• 3:17
  Emerson: West African there, which I thought, oh wait a moment.
• 3:22
  Emerson: That's is sort of new, which is reflective of the culture.
• 3:25
  Emerson: Mm-hmm.
• 3:26
  Emerson: So you leave that to the side.
• 3:28
  Emerson: And then the, which is from my father's side.
• 3:30
  Emerson: And I, I spoke to my mother 'cause when I had my DNA, my father had already died and I told her, I said, west African.
• 3:37
  Emerson: And he said, well, your father did have a, a KO who that had Afro hair.
• 3:42
  Emerson: So is on that side there.
• 3:44
  Emerson: So yeah, which makes a lot of sense.
• 3:46
  Emerson: Yes.
• 3:47
  Tracy: So West African, like my geography's, not my superpower.
• 3:51
  Tracy: So
• 3:52
  Emerson: Ivory Coast,
• 3:53
  Tracy: ah, uh,
• 3:54
  Emerson: Kenya, that region, the Central West Africa.
• 3:59
  Emerson: Which is where the Africans were taken from and uh, and taken to Brazil.
• 4:05
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 4:05
  Tracy: There was a lot that came in.
• 4:06
  Tracy: Slaves wasn't there, so
• 4:08
  Emerson: yes, they were enslaved.
• 4:09
  Emerson: Yes.
• 4:10
  Emerson: Yes.
• 4:10
  Emerson: And Brazil was the, the county that received took most Africans out of Africa.
• 4:16
  Emerson: Of all, of all the other countries.
• 4:18
  Emerson: Brazil was the one that took most, uh, Africans and the one that, uh, abolished slavery last as well.
• 4:27
  Tracy: Wow.
• 4:28
  Tracy: So was that through the, the colonizers taking them?
• 4:33
  Emerson: We were colonized by the Portuguese and so, but there was a bit big commerce between Portugal and Britain.
• 4:39
  Emerson: There was that commerce, you know, human co trafficking basically, uh, at the time.
• 4:45
  Emerson: So they were taking a lot of them taken to Brazil.
• 4:48
  Emerson: To the Caribbean and North America.
• 4:51
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 4:52
  Tracy: Wow, wow.
• 4:53
  Emerson: Yeah, it was huge.
• 4:54
  Emerson: We had millions and millions of people.
• 4:57
  Tracy: Times, Hey,
• 4:59
  Emerson: I do have, this is a picture.
• 5:05
  Emerson: Painted picture of what you call the ana.
• 5:08
  Emerson: The banas are the ladies from the state of Baia.
• 5:12
  Emerson: Uh, and Salvador used to be the cap of Brazil during that time.
• 5:17
  Emerson: So these are black ladies dancing like Sufi, but they're ladies.
• 5:23
  Emerson: So, and I have this here really much, uh, reminding me of my ancestry.
• 5:28
  Tracy: Yeah, that took me a minute to realize what it was.
• 5:30
  Tracy: It's beautiful.
• 5:31
  Emerson: Three ladies spinning.
• 5:34
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 5:35
  Emerson: And this happens today in Brazil.
• 5:37
  Tracy: Okay.
• 5:38
  Emerson: Afro-Brazilian rituals.
• 5:39
  Emerson: They are very big in Brazil.
• 5:41
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 5:42
  Tracy: Wow.
• 5:43
  Tracy: Okay.
• 5:44
  Tracy: So tell me, how did, how did Constellations find you?
• 5:48
  Tracy: What was your first
• 5:48
  Emerson: experience?
• 5:49
  Emerson: Constellation found me and I found Constellation, uh, for me.
• 5:54
  Emerson: I was, uh, I was in a relationship at the time, uh, that was.
• 5:58
  Emerson: Early two thousands and this person who I was in a relationship with told me about Family Constellation.
• 6:04
  Emerson: He told me about Bat He, but that, I didn't know exactly what it was, but I had a sort of, uh, that was my first contact in hearing about it.
• 6:13
  Emerson: And it was the most difficult relationship I've ever had, was.
• 6:17
  Emerson: It was just very difficult when we broke up, I could just not get over it.
• 6:23
  Emerson: It was just painful, was it was chronic and, uh, just kept going.
• 6:28
  Emerson: And then I thought, I need to find something.
• 6:31
  Emerson: And, uh, what I had heard about Pharmac, consulation, it sounded really good.
• 6:36
  Emerson: So, uh, I have a friend here in London who I spoke to and he said, oh, I do know two people who do film constellations here.
• 6:44
  Emerson: That was late 2003, 2004.
• 6:47
  Emerson: And, uh, they were, uh, ju Judith Hemmings and, uh, Richard, uh, uh, wasting.
• 6:54
  Emerson: And uh, and so I, I went to a family, a three day family constellation with Richards wasting, and, uh, for me, feels like there is an Amazon before that date.
• 7:06
  Emerson: There is another Emerson after that.
• 7:08
  Emerson: And the one thing, and I do remember a couple of of representations I had there.
• 7:13
  Emerson: I do remember my constellation, but one thing I really stuck to me because we had like three days by the end of it, we having a closing round and everybody said, oh my God, I'm so tired.
• 7:25
  Emerson: That is really too much.
• 7:27
  Emerson: You know, feeling, feeling tired because it's quite normal to feel, people feel tired after one day constellation workshop and after three days people are very exhausted.
• 7:35
  Emerson: Then when.
• 7:36
  Emerson: Came my time to share.
• 7:37
  Emerson: I said, well, I'm ready to start.
• 7:39
  Emerson: Shall we, shall we start again?
• 7:41
  Emerson: Mm-hmm.
• 7:41
  Emerson: I know, I felt so energized and the, and the, and my experience with, uh, participating in a workshop or facilitating one, I always find it very energizing.
• 7:53
  Emerson: Which I really like, really enliven me and, uh, energizes me.
• 7:58
  Emerson: So I found it through a need, a personal need and, uh, really hit the spots.
• 8:06
  Emerson: And I had that experience as if the light was switched off and suddenly switched the lights on.
• 8:11
  Emerson: I could see things deeper and wider and I thought, ah, that makes sense now.
• 8:17
  Tracy: Yes,
• 8:18
  Emerson: it does make sense.
• 8:19
  Emerson: Something start falling to place.
• 8:21
  Emerson: It's been a, a big, big journey since then.
• 8:25
  Tracy: And so how long after that did you decide to train
• 8:29
  Emerson: after that first experience?
• 8:31
  Emerson: Uh, I asked my, the facilitator if I could have sessions with him.
• 8:37
  Emerson: Thankfully, he was a a i guest staff psychotherapist, so I start having weekly sessions with him, psychotherapy sessions.
• 8:44
  Emerson: But sometimes he would use constellation.
• 8:48
  Emerson: Approach as well.
• 8:49
  Emerson: And uh, and uh, I kept going with that and I kept participating workshops, his and some other people.
• 8:56
  Emerson: And then there was a point, and I didn't know who was involved in the, in the, it used to be ccs.
• 9:02
  Emerson: That, uh, was a training school, uh, for training, uh, new facilitators.
• 9:07
  Emerson: And then he told me There is a training going and if you'd like to join, you can join.
• 9:11
  Emerson: I said, really?
• 9:12
  Emerson: So I applied, et cetera, et cetera.
• 9:15
  Emerson: Then I joined the training and at the time I had no intention of, uh, training to become a consideration facilitator.
• 9:24
  Emerson: For me, it was like, okay, training, I learned and I really found the, the whole thing fascinating.
• 9:30
  Emerson: I start buying books, reading books.
• 9:32
  Emerson: I read the Orders of Love, I think four times, back to back, one after the other.
• 9:37
  Emerson: I was under all the other books, felt like, oh my God, now I can see more.
• 9:42
  Emerson: Uh, now.
• 9:42
  Emerson: And it
• 9:43
  Tracy: wouldn't have been that many books back then, right?
• 9:45
  Tracy: Because
• 9:45
  Emerson: No, not many.
• 9:47
  Tracy: There wasn't, there wasn't that many books back then.
• 9:49
  Tracy: Now there's a lot of books coming out different.
• 9:51
  Emerson: Yeah.
• 9:52
  Tracy: But yeah,
• 9:54
  Emerson: exactly.
• 9:54
  Emerson: Yeah.
• 9:54
  Emerson: So thankfully Hunter Belmont had translated the books and they were available in English.
• 10:00
  Emerson: So I bought the books and uh, I just read them, no, stop.
• 10:04
  Emerson: And, uh, and then, uh, then I joined the training and I did the first year, 2004, no, not 2004, 2000, when was it?
• 10:13
  Emerson: Uh, maybe 2006.
• 10:16
  Emerson: Uh, 2006, 2007.
• 10:18
  Emerson: I did the first year.
• 10:20
  Emerson: And, uh, and then I kept going.
• 10:22
  Emerson: And at some point, uh, when I was doing the second year, second year, I was doing the second year training with them.
• 10:30
  Emerson: That's when, uh, I did an experiment 'cause I do the five element constellation.
• 10:36
  Tracy: Mm, I was about to ask you that.
• 10:38
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 10:38
  Emerson: Yes, yes, exactly.
• 10:39
  Emerson: So I, I was super into the constellation world, uh, or studying and all that.
• 10:46
  Emerson: But, uh, no, I, I've been a chef practitioner for over 30 years now.
• 10:51
  Emerson: And so, sorry.
• 10:52
  Emerson: A
• 10:52
  Tracy: what Practitioner?
• 10:55
  Tracy: She accent.
• 10:56
  Tracy: Oh yeah.
• 10:56
  Tracy: Yep.
• 10:57
  Emerson: Which is based in Oriental medicine.
• 10:59
  Emerson: It's from Ja, it is Japanese.
• 11:01
  Emerson: Mm-hmm.
• 11:01
  Emerson: And so that's what I've been, I was doing full time and uh, and teaching as well.
• 11:06
  Emerson: So I have this on my website, but it is a story that I love telling because I was teaching at the time, the second year, uh, uh, Shasu students group, and we, we were going to revise the five elements.
• 11:21
  Emerson: So they, they already knew about the five elements.
• 11:24
  Emerson: So we are going to recap and, uh, go deeper into the, mm-hmm.
• 11:28
  Emerson: Into the five elements and how to work with them in Shiatsu.
• 11:31
  Emerson: And I was wondering, it would be nice to do.
• 11:33
  Emerson: To to cover this in a way that's maybe different, refreshing for them, and then they thought, shall I constellate the five elements?
• 11:44
  Emerson: Crossed my mind and I said, no, no, no.
• 11:46
  Emerson: Don't be silly.
• 11:47
  Emerson: Don't do that.
• 11:48
  Emerson: And then I said, Hmm.
• 11:49
  Emerson: And then I sort of thought about it and then I thought, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this.
• 11:54
  Emerson: And the, and the, there are the five elements, have the associations, and there are two cycles.
• 12:00
  Emerson: Uh, but I had, I was reading, uh, five element book at the time that said the positioning of the earth element was in the center of the cycle, not in a circle.
• 12:11
  Tracy: Yes.
• 12:12
  Emerson: And then I thought, okay, I'm gonna do this experiment and see if the earth element is in the middle or on the, or on this circle, uh, level.
• 12:21
  Emerson: So, and, uh, then I, I mentioned to the students, I didn't mention to them that we were going to look at the five elements.
• 12:29
  Emerson: I said, uh, I, I'm, I'm gonna suggest that we do an experiment here.
• 12:34
  Emerson: I'm gonna tell you what this experiment is about.
• 12:37
  Emerson: After we finish it, I'll just explain to you the procedure.
• 12:41
  Emerson: A blind experiment.
• 12:43
  Emerson: Yes.
• 12:44
  Emerson: Double blind experiment.
• 12:46
  Emerson: And, uh, then I, I, uh, I said I'm gonna give a piece of paper.
• 12:52
  Emerson: That's written something on it to each one of you.
• 12:55
  Emerson: I didn't say five.
• 12:56
  Emerson: I thought they might think we are gonna do the five elements.
• 12:58
  Emerson: So I didn't say the number.
• 13:00
  Emerson: I'm gonna do, uh, give a piece of, uh, paper so it's something written on it.
• 13:05
  Emerson: Don't look at it.
• 13:06
  Emerson: Just hold it.
• 13:07
  Emerson: So the, the ones I give the paper to, I'm gonna position you somewhere here.
• 13:12
  Emerson: What the position here.
• 13:13
  Emerson: All you need to do is to see how you, how, how is your experience?
• 13:17
  Emerson: There is no right or wrong.
• 13:18
  Emerson: Whatever you feel, you feel it.
• 13:19
  Emerson: If you don't feel anything, you don't feel anything, and also how you feel about one another.
• 13:24
  Emerson: Yeah.
• 13:25
  Emerson: So I placed them and I, and all of them, and I placed them in the wrong position and I placed the earth element in the middle, but I, I wanted to give them the paper because it would be difficult to keep track who was who.
• 13:37
  Emerson: So I thought I'll give them the paper and uh, and uh, and I leave it there.
• 13:41
  Emerson: So
• 13:41
  Tracy: at this stage, did you know which ones you'd given the paper to?
• 13:45
  Emerson: When I gave the paper, I did look at it, but once I gave the paper, I was, uh, I, I wasn't keeping track of who was who, but I knew who was the earth element.
• 13:53
  Tracy: Yeah,
• 13:54
  Emerson: the earth element.
• 13:54
  Emerson: 'cause that was the one I thought, I want to know if this is gonna work, this experiment's gonna work because maybe.
• 14:01
  Emerson: Doesn't work that like that, you know?
• 14:03
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 14:03
  Emerson: And that these are completely different, uh, uh, systems.
• 14:07
  Emerson: Nothing to do with another, maybe it just doesn't work.
• 14:10
  Emerson: Yeah.
• 14:10
  Emerson: And another thing that I also have it written on my website is that I was really afraid that if it didn't show anything, what it would mean, would it mean that the five elements have no resonance, have no value, have no, it's just a theory.
• 14:25
  Emerson: Nothing more than a theory.
• 14:27
  Tracy: Hmm.
• 14:27
  Emerson: Maybe like a bit of a wishful thinking because the empiric theory that's evolved over.
• 14:33
  Emerson: Very long time.
• 14:34
  Emerson: So I was like, oh my God, what am I gonna do with information?
• 14:37
  Emerson: Should it come that way?
• 14:39
  Emerson: You know, I was sort of scared, but I kept track of the earth element and the, and then said, how are you?
• 14:44
  Emerson: And said, I said, well, this doesn't feel right.
• 14:47
  Emerson: All of them said, doesn't feel right.
• 14:48
  Emerson: And they looked at the person, they me and said, what are you doing there, you know?
• 14:52
  Emerson: And I said, oh my God, they don't like it there.
• 14:54
  Emerson: So I was very curious and uh, very excited as well.
• 14:58
  Emerson: And they said, okay, if it doesn't feel good where you are.
• 15:01
  Emerson: See if there is a place where you can feel better.
• 15:04
  Emerson: So they moved.
• 15:05
  Emerson: They moved.
• 15:06
  Emerson: Oh, not good on one side.
• 15:07
  Emerson: Oh, here seem to be okay.
• 15:09
  Emerson: The other one is not okay.
• 15:10
  Emerson: And I said, keep moving, see how it feels.
• 15:13
  Emerson: Maybe find a good place for you, maybe you don't, but just keep going.
• 15:16
  Emerson: So it went for on for a while.
• 15:19
  Emerson: And then after a while I didn't, uh, I, I lost track of who was who.
• 15:23
  Emerson: I said no.
• 15:24
  Emerson: And they came into a circle themselves.
• 15:27
  Emerson: And they said, Hmm.
• 15:28
  Emerson: And they didn't know.
• 15:29
  Emerson: They didn't know we were doing the five elements.
• 15:32
  Emerson: So they came to a circus, oh my God.
• 15:35
  Emerson: And they are all good.
• 15:37
  Emerson: If they are all in funny positions here.
• 15:39
  Emerson: And then I said, I'm just gonna read the paper on each hand of what's in your hand and I give it back to you, but don't look at it yet.
• 15:46
  Emerson: So I look at them, they were, is exactly the creative cycle and the earth element was in the place where it's, where is only the other book says where it belongs.
• 15:55
  Emerson: I was like, I nearly fainted at that moment.
• 15:59
  Emerson: And they thought, wow.
• 16:00
  Emerson: And there was charge.
• 16:01
  Emerson: They were like, no, this is good.
• 16:03
  Emerson: And I said, if you look to the left, which is the creative cycle, uh uh, the creative cycle,
• 16:08
  Tracy: kind of like the clockwise, the creative,
• 16:10
  Emerson: the clockwise one, the one that is on your left.
• 16:13
  Emerson: They said, this feels good.
• 16:15
  Emerson: All of them said, this feels good.
• 16:17
  Emerson: When I looked at the left is very good.
• 16:19
  Emerson: And then there is the supportive cycle.
• 16:21
  Emerson: There's the second one on your left that is, it's like when it's parents, the other one is grandparent or associations, and they said, oh wow, that feels even better.
• 16:31
  Tracy: Mm.
• 16:33
  Emerson: I was like, my goodness, I cannot believe this.
• 16:37
  Emerson: And uh, and then I said, just read what you're holding on your hands.
• 16:43
  Emerson: And then they, they read it and, uh, they said, which the element they were, it's very bright there.
• 16:51
  Tracy: Yeah, I just pulled the down a little bit.
• 16:53
  Tracy: It's morning, uh,
• 16:55
  Emerson: the, they read it and they, and they start, I think.
• 16:59
  Emerson: They said, uh, what?
• 17:01
  Emerson: What's happening?
• 17:02
  Emerson: Yeah.
• 17:02
  Emerson: What has just happened?
• 17:03
  Emerson: And I was like, I couldn't say a thing.
• 17:05
  Emerson: I was just like so impacted by the whole thing.
• 17:08
  Tracy: Wow.
• 17:09
  Emerson: So impacted, very alive.
• 17:12
  Emerson: Very true.
• 17:13
  Emerson: And that they had no theory.
• 17:14
  Emerson: They didn't know they were doing the five elements.
• 17:17
  Emerson: They had no idea about constellation work whatsoever.
• 17:20
  Emerson: That has nothing to do with constellation work.
• 17:22
  Emerson: And that came alive without any information at all.
• 17:26
  Tracy: That's so beautiful, isn't it?
• 17:27
  Tracy: And I love that, how that.
• 17:29
  Tracy: You don't have to know anything about it.
• 17:30
  Tracy: To be able to do this as a representative to come in and represent because you, you don't have, there's no, you can't learn.
• 17:40
  Tracy: It's part of what is already there.
• 17:42
  Tracy: Right.
• 17:42
  Tracy: It's
• 17:43
  Emerson: exactly.
• 17:43
  Emerson: We are part of it anyway.
• 17:45
  Tracy: Exactly.
• 17:46
  Tracy: Exactly.
• 17:46
  Emerson: We just, we just don't know.
• 17:47
  Emerson: We are, but we are.
• 17:48
  Emerson: So is, is, is, is reconnecting really?
• 17:52
  Tracy: So for someone who doesn't know what Five Elements is about at all, I'm not sure what, you know, where they might be in the world, but, but maybe there's someone who doesn't know about it.
• 18:02
  Tracy: Can you explain, explain a little bit about that?
• 18:05
  Emerson: No, sure.
• 18:06
  Emerson: Yeah.
• 18:06
  Emerson: Uh, the, the five elements is from, uh, originally from Oriental Medicine.
• 18:12
  Emerson: Or traditional Chinese medicine, the same thing.
• 18:15
  Emerson: Uh, and this, uh, uh, is a theory that has been developed, uh, over thousands of years and, uh, and came from the very agricultural China and, uh, and through empirical observation of nature and empirical observation of human beings.
• 18:32
  Emerson: So, and then they started associating.
• 18:35
  Emerson: Organs functioning in certain ways that relate to another organ in certain ways, similarly to what this element in nature relates to this other element in nature.
• 18:46
  Emerson: So then they start associating this organ like this, and it relates to this other organ this way, similar to how.
• 18:54
  Emerson: Water and wood relates, eh, 'cause The elements are, uh, water, wood in this sequence, clock by sequence, water, wood, fire, earth, and metal, and metal water again.
• 19:09
  Emerson: And then over the centuries, more theory, more association.
• 19:15
  Emerson: There is foods, emotions, diets, time of the day, seasons of the year, colors.
• 19:22
  Emerson: Quite a large amount of association for each of the, the elements in each of of the organs.
• 19:29
  Emerson: Two, uh, each.
• 19:30
  Emerson: Each element in oriental medicine is associated to two organs.
• 19:34
  Emerson: Apart from the fire that's associated to, uh, primary and secondary fire.
• 19:40
  Emerson: So they have four, uh, but all the other elements have two organs.
• 19:45
  Emerson: Yes.
• 19:46
  Emerson: So when I started constellating, the five elements, these.
• 19:53
  Emerson: Information from the tradition.
• 19:55
  Emerson: Chinese medicine is all the knowledge that I had.
• 19:58
  Emerson: And then I started, after this first experiment, I started, uh, running like evening workshops or experiments with people from no students from the school and other people related to Shiatsu.
• 20:13
  Emerson: And uh, after doing that a little few times, I dunno how many times, I can't remember, uh, I, I opened to the park and I did a whole day.
• 20:22
  Emerson: But basically I was, information was coming that I didn't know exactly what to do with them.
• 20:27
  Emerson: 'cause they were not exactly, how could I fit all the association of medicine into that.
• 20:33
  Emerson: Right.
• 20:34
  Emerson: So, 'cause other information were coming, uh, and, and I remember this the very second time that I, the first time.
• 20:41
  Emerson: I, I consulate the five elements was this one.
• 20:43
  Emerson: The second time I already, I told them I'm, I'm going to do the five elements and, uh, and, uh, we are gonna place them.
• 20:51
  Emerson: And then we got information.
• 20:53
  Emerson: So I, I demonstrated how to place the five elements, but before I knew it, they were started talking and I recognized what they were saying about me, and I remember what element saying.
• 21:05
  Emerson: I'm keeping an eye on all of you.
• 21:06
  Emerson: I know exactly what you're doing and, uh, really, and all there other element, how they were behaving was very much how maintain world was.
• 21:16
  Emerson: Ah,
• 21:17
  Tracy: yep.
• 21:17
  Emerson: And I felt absolutely naked in front of everybody.
• 21:21
  Emerson: I said, no, no, no.
• 21:22
  Emerson: This just demonstration can stop.
• 21:23
  Emerson: No, I wasn't prepared for it because just like came alive, my inner world came alive with the five elements in front of me, to my surprise and to my shock.
• 21:34
  Tracy: It's like, Hey, it's real.
• 21:36
  Tracy: It's happening.
• 21:37
  Emerson: Exactly, and I, and I felt really like, no, this is just a demonstration.
• 21:42
  Emerson: We can stop now.
• 21:42
  Emerson: That's okay.
• 21:43
  Emerson: But I remember what they said.
• 21:45
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 21:45
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 21:46
  Emerson: And, and then I, I, we did maybe two or three exercises there, and the same thing happened.
• 21:51
  Emerson: The same thing happened.
• 21:53
  Emerson: So I kept, I kept doing that, and by that point I knew that I needed more in terms of.
• 22:01
  Emerson: This thing is serious.
• 22:03
  Emerson: This thing works.
• 22:04
  Emerson: And I'm not fully, uh, by then I was fully qualified in, in Family Constellation and I was part of a group that we are running monthly constellation workshops in London, where four of us and one of them, uh, was post Tony, who was the chairman of Is.
• 22:20
  Emerson: So we were part the same group.
• 22:22
  Emerson: Him, his wife, and, uh, Janet Herman and me and somebody else.
• 22:27
  Emerson: And then somebody else left, and then I joined.
• 22:29
  Emerson: So I was part of that group and also running the five element constellations in London.
• 22:35
  Emerson: But I knew, I, I, I knew I need more in terms of, uh, how to hold a group, how to facilitate.
• 22:42
  Emerson: By then, uh, Judith Hamming was running a, a training workshop.
• 22:48
  Emerson: Of six modules over a year of, uh, working with capos, using firm Constellations and GE out, this was a huge experience for me personally and the profession as well.
• 22:59
  Emerson: And, uh, I was exposed to a lot of GE out 'cause I, I had heard of GE out, but I didn't know very much about it.
• 23:05
  Tracy: Yes.
• 23:05
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 23:06
  Emerson: So I thought, and was, what was engaged out in that training was really, really, was like a glove for me.
• 23:16
  Emerson: So I thought, okay, I'm gonna train gestad.
• 23:19
  Emerson: So then I joined my, uh, psychotherapy training, ge GE psychotherapy.
• 23:25
  Emerson: That was early days of the five elements.
• 23:28
  Emerson: So what I was learning in my psychotherapy training was informing me of what I was noticing, the five element constellations.
• 23:35
  Emerson: So, because it was very clearly an intrapsychic thing.
• 23:39
  Emerson: Mm, you are inner, a world manifest in front of your eyes right there.
• 23:43
  Emerson: And uh, so that was just the perfect thing for me.
• 23:47
  Emerson: Personally and professionally.
• 23:49
  Emerson: So you phone me and so I could see things that could, oh, oh, looks like this and this, a process that it keeps, keeps going.
• 23:56
  Emerson: It's very organic.
• 23:58
  Emerson: Every now and then I say, oh, now the penny drops.
• 24:01
  Emerson: That's what it is.
• 24:01
  Emerson: That's why it keeps happening here on this element, eh, for example, because for example, in a, in a five constellation workshop today, the information I give out, I give about the element.
• 24:12
  Emerson: I mostly not based on the, on the, what I knew from the books from.
• 24:16
  Emerson: The tradition Chinese medicine anymore.
• 24:19
  Emerson: Yeah.
• 24:19
  Emerson: Is almost all of it now is based on my experience of constellating.
• 24:23
  Emerson: The five elements, for example, wood element is, uh, how we internalize the father,
• 24:28
  Tracy: how we internalize the father.
• 24:30
  Emerson: Yeah.
• 24:31
  Emerson: Yes.
• 24:31
  Emerson: So,
• 24:32
  Tracy: so does the wood, does the wood element itself re represent the father?
• 24:37
  Emerson: No.
• 24:38
  Emerson: Represent how internalize the father, the essence of the wood element is wood element is associated with spring.
• 24:44
  Emerson: Yeah.
• 24:45
  Emerson: Mm-hmm.
• 24:45
  Emerson: And the, the motion associated with wood element is anger.
• 24:49
  Emerson: Yeah.
• 24:49
  Emerson: So, but uh, what's the motion of, uh, the, of anger is very expansive.
• 24:55
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 24:55
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 24:57
  Emerson: You don't say I'm so hungry right now.
• 25:00
  Emerson: I say hungry.
• 25:01
  Emerson: Yes.
• 25:01
  Emerson: It's charged.
• 25:02
  Emerson: It's expensive.
• 25:04
  Emerson: Yes.
• 25:04
  Emerson: So, and associated spring.
• 25:06
  Emerson: So Spring, that's what spring is.
• 25:09
  Emerson: It's expensive energy.
• 25:11
  Emerson: For what?
• 25:12
  Emerson: For becoming ourselves.
• 25:14
  Emerson: So it is a very, like, because the element before that is water.
• 25:18
  Emerson: Water is ancestry.
• 25:20
  Emerson: We get our, our gift from our parents.
• 25:24
  Emerson: And from our ancestors and what do we want to do with this gift of life?
• 25:28
  Emerson: We want to be ourselves.
• 25:30
  Emerson: Yeah.
• 25:30
  Emerson: So that's what the element is, that energy of me, that that sort of sense.
• 25:35
  Emerson: I know that's my essence and all I want to do in the world is to really become who I truly am.
• 25:42
  Emerson: Yes.
• 25:43
  Emerson: It's like a seed.
• 25:44
  Emerson: What can a seed do?
• 25:45
  Emerson: Become what it is.
• 25:47
  Tracy: Do do each of the elements.
• 25:50
  Tracy: So something represents a mother, something represents father ancestors.
• 25:55
  Emerson: No.
• 25:56
  Tracy: No,
• 25:56
  Emerson: uh, because this is an RAs psychic work, so water is ancestry, so doesn't represent our ancestors.
• 26:04
  Emerson: It represents.
• 26:06
  Emerson: Is in us.
• 26:07
  Tracy: Okay?
• 26:08
  Tracy: Yep.
• 26:09
  Emerson: Wood is not our father, but how we have our, how we carry our FA father in us, how internalize him.
• 26:16
  Tracy: Yep.
• 26:17
  Emerson: Earth element is not mother, but is related to our cognition, know our cognitive processes and how we internalize mother.
• 26:26
  Tracy: Okay.
• 26:26
  Tracy: How would you describe this to someone?
• 26:29
  Tracy: If you were meeting them for the first time and you're saying, and they say, what do you do, Emma said.
• 26:34
  Tracy: How do you describe either constellations or five elements, constellations or both?
• 26:41
  Emerson: What?
• 26:41
  Emerson: Describe what's happening.
• 26:43
  Tracy: Oh, like if someone's asking you what do you do?
• 26:45
  Tracy: And you say, oh, I'm a five elements, cons, family, constellation, facilitator, or constellation.
• 26:52
  Emerson: Okay.
• 26:52
  Tracy: And they say, what is that?
• 26:55
  Emerson: I have explained this to so many people so many times, and I usually say it's always a little bit different each time.
• 27:03
  Tracy: Yeah,
• 27:03
  Emerson: and, and I say, I usually say something like, I try to be brief because there so many people explain this to.
• 27:12
  Emerson: And the, some people who I explained this to and they came to the workshop, they say, oh, now I know what you're talking about.
• 27:20
  Tracy: Hmm.
• 27:20
  Emerson: Because you really need to experience it for, because then it is not knowledge that you have an experience that you have and you know it in your bones.
• 27:28
  Emerson: Oh, this is it.
• 27:30
  Emerson: Yeah.
• 27:30
  Emerson: So, but the way.
• 27:31
  Emerson: I explain it sometimes people say, well, this is a way of mapping out, out there some how we are carrying no, uh, all the internalizations, all our dynamics and how we are in our system of origin.
• 27:44
  Emerson: We just use people to represent and so they show us something that's happening, that's flowing or not flowing.
• 27:51
  Emerson: And we work with trying to get things to be in a more harmonious place and flow a bit better.
• 27:59
  Tracy: Love it.
• 28:00
  Emerson: Yeah, so roughly like that.
• 28:03
  Emerson: 'cause I used to explain a lot, but uh, the things you cannot really know until you experience it.
• 28:08
  Emerson: Mm-hmm.
• 28:08
  Emerson: So I just say it's just sort of externalizing how the dynamics that we have in ourselves and once we know it, which already is a big step to know what is being affecting you and be aware of that, that already causes a change.
• 28:25
  Tracy: It does.
• 28:26
  Emerson: Yeah.
• 28:26
  Emerson: And, uh, and then, then we work with that to sort of, uh, port Health Harmony.
• 28:32
  Tracy: That's great.
• 28:33
  Tracy: That's really good.
• 28:34
  Tracy: Do you have any examples of five elements, constellation that would be okay to share without ch crossing any boundaries?
• 28:43
  Tracy: Maybe someone's, has someone come with a health issue or something that's, or something.
• 28:49
  Emerson: No.
• 28:50
  Emerson: There, there are.
• 28:51
  Emerson: Yes.
• 28:51
  Emerson: Uh, 'cause I just had a workshop, uh, on the 31st in Hasting.
• 28:56
  Emerson: No, uh, the one example that I, I like sharing and the, because I think you're asking how the five elements work, but this is not quite about The five elements is more about the constellation work itself because, uh, uh, this example is I was in Creed, uh, running a workshop there.
• 29:15
  Emerson: Most people there that come to the workshop, they speak English, uh, which is great 'cause I don't speak Greek.
• 29:21
  Emerson: And there was one person in that workshop who didn't speak one single word in English, nothing.
• 29:27
  Emerson: So we were having translation and she was representing one of the elements.
• 29:32
  Emerson: And at that moment I was working with the elements she was representing.
• 29:36
  Emerson: And, uh, and I was using the statements and the movement, et cetera, and she was responding really nicely, et cetera.
• 29:42
  Emerson: But I noticed that the, the, the translation had stopped.
• 29:46
  Emerson: And I said, but you're moving.
• 29:48
  Emerson: Said, I just felt like it.
• 29:50
  Emerson: So even though she was not understanding the statements, were having impact.
• 29:56
  Emerson: We know how this work, but this work never ceases to amaze me.
• 30:02
  Emerson: Or how it works.
• 30:04
  Emerson: And so this one was like, oh my God, it, even if you don't understand the words I'm saying, the essence of what I'm saying is having an impact.
• 30:13
  Emerson: Yeah.
• 30:13
  Emerson: You know, and things.
• 30:14
  Emerson: And she was moving to a very nice place and there is no translation here.
• 30:18
  Emerson: So that was an amazing thing.
• 30:20
  Emerson: And as I say this to you, one of the, the, uh, example for the five elements that I think is okay to share here.
• 30:27
  Emerson: There's one thing that every now and then it happens.
• 30:30
  Emerson: Let's say a person's representing, let's say earth element.
• 30:34
  Emerson: So earth elements represent, uh, is related to thinking, cognition, rationality, intellect, all, all that we think, how we perceive ourselves, how we perceive the world, all of that.
• 30:48
  Emerson: And also how internalized the mother, every now and then the it happens.
• 30:54
  Emerson: Sit in regularity.
• 30:56
  Emerson: The elements start talking like the mother and then the, the issue holder says, but my mother talks like that.
• 31:03
  Emerson: And then the element say, yes, I am the mother.
• 31:05
  Emerson: So basically that's the issue.
• 31:09
  Emerson: But that is not the mother, but it means the mother and the, the and the client.
• 31:15
  Emerson: They became, they merged,
• 31:16
  Tracy: right?
• 31:17
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 31:18
  Emerson: So there isn't a healthy separation between the client and the mother.
• 31:22
  Emerson: It's like it is too much in the mother's field of influence and they, they lose themselves in the field of the mother.
• 31:28
  Emerson: Mm-hmm.
• 31:28
  Emerson: So, and that shows up in the constellation, you know.
• 31:32
  Tracy: So in a, in a fire elements constellation, how would you, is it, how would you find a place for that?
• 31:41
  Emerson: I would invite someone to represent the mother.
• 31:43
  Tracy: Okay.
• 31:45
  Tracy: So, so that's where the traditional constellations are coming in then?
• 31:48
  Emerson: Yeah, no, exactly.
• 31:49
  Emerson: Because the, the main, main thing about the five elements is that, uh, to constellate the five elements, the issue hold, it doesn't say anything about the issue at all.
• 31:59
  Emerson: There is no issue and they just constellate and then something comes up.
• 32:04
  Tracy: Yeah,
• 32:04
  Emerson: because the positioning already tells me quite a lot of information.
• 32:10
  Emerson: And the, the, the direction of the gaze, the positioning, their demeanor, the posture, just that sometimes I start the, the, the work without asking any feedback from them.
• 32:21
  Emerson: But the position is already so clear.
• 32:23
  Emerson: Sometimes, not always.
• 32:25
  Emerson: Sometimes it is just clear.
• 32:27
  Emerson: I say, okay, before I say anything, I just want to offer you a statement.
• 32:30
  Emerson: For example, another, another example comes to mind because it was a client.
• 32:35
  Emerson: Because the, as you know, the, the constellation can last sometimes 40 minutes, sometimes an hour, sometimes a little bit more, all of that.
• 32:43
  Emerson: But I had the constellation that lasted about six minutes.
• 32:47
  Tracy: An espresso.
• 32:47
  Tracy: Whew.
• 32:49
  Emerson: Exactly.
• 32:50
  Emerson: And the client was very unhappy because, is that it?
• 32:54
  Emerson: But the thing, 'cause I said, well, the, the whole constellation, the purpose of that is to find a movement that brings things in harmony.
• 33:02
  Emerson: Mm-hmm.
• 33:02
  Emerson: And uh, with one statement, it happens in yours.
• 33:05
  Emerson: What can I do?
• 33:07
  Emerson: I said, well done.
• 33:08
  Emerson: You know, you've done so much work, it's paying off, you know?
• 33:11
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 33:11
  Emerson: And, uh, and, uh, because what came up is, was so clear that I offered him statement that the statement creates the, all the representatives moved into a good position to the five elements.
• 33:25
  Emerson: I said, that's it.
• 33:25
  Emerson: Look at this.
• 33:26
  Emerson: They're know that.
• 33:27
  Emerson: They've been reordered, everything's in place.
• 33:29
  Emerson: And they, all the feedback said, now it's okay with that statement.
• 33:32
  Emerson: Now it's good.
• 33:33
  Emerson: It wasn't good, but now it's good.
• 33:36
  Emerson: I said, well, and then, and so, but as she said, I thought we're about to start and we finished already.
• 33:42
  Emerson: I said, well, look at that.
• 33:44
  Emerson: What do you think about this?
• 33:46
  Emerson: Everything's good.
• 33:46
  Emerson: What, what else can we do?
• 33:50
  Tracy: Great.
• 33:50
  Emerson: But usually, usually this doesn't happen.
• 33:52
  Emerson: So that was a a, a one-off thing.
• 33:54
  Emerson: Yes.
• 33:55
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 33:55
  Tracy: Oh, that's brilliant.
• 33:57
  Emerson: No, it, it is amazing because they don't give one piece of information and the information comes, always comes.
• 34:05
  Tracy: So are you at the beginning of a constellation?
• 34:07
  Tracy: Are you, and you're putting in the five elements, are you telling them so your earth is that blind?
• 34:13
  Emerson: The issue holder, uh, has choices.
• 34:17
  Tracy: Oh yeah.
• 34:17
  Emerson: They, I give them the cards.
• 34:19
  Emerson: So I kept the cards.
• 34:20
  Emerson: Now I have nice laminated cards and uh, uh, and then I give them the cards.
• 34:25
  Emerson: And then I say, well, you can look at the cards and invite someone to be a representative of that element.
• 34:31
  Emerson: And then I say to the participant, if you accept the invitation to be a representative of that element, you get a card, but you don't look at that card yet.
• 34:39
  Emerson: So it's blind to the representatives at that moment.
• 34:43
  Emerson: And the issue hold that they have the choice to look at the card or not look at the card and the choose people as well.
• 34:50
  Emerson: And I, I didn't do that in the beginning at all, but I remember I was very clear and a bit strict.
• 34:57
  Emerson: You choose, you make a choice and you choose them, et cetera.
• 35:00
  Emerson: And then people say yes, yes.
• 35:02
  Emerson: And they automatically will do that way.
• 35:04
  Emerson: So now I say, go do the way you want.
• 35:07
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 35:08
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 35:09
  Tracy: That's the beauty of it, isn't it?
• 35:10
  Tracy: It it finds its way.
• 35:13
  Tracy: Oh, I'm gonna run it this way.
• 35:14
  Tracy: But the field's like mm-hmm.
• 35:16
  Tracy: No way.
• 35:17
  Emerson: Exactly.
• 35:17
  Emerson: Exactly.
• 35:18
  Emerson: We're
• 35:18
  Tracy: gonna do
• 35:18
  Emerson: something
• 35:19
  Tracy: different.
• 35:19
  Emerson: Exactly.
• 35:20
  Emerson: And, and the, and the, and the, and they, and the way they do that in terms of asking the representatives, uh, how they do the, with the card, how they go.
• 35:30
  Emerson: All of this is information.
• 35:32
  Emerson: All of this is information and this is, it is amazing.
• 35:36
  Emerson: Uh, how much information is there.
• 35:37
  Emerson: The problem is that there is almost too much information when you look at it to say, oh my God, there is a lot.
• 35:43
  Emerson: So then you have to choose, and the it run reminds me of one thing.
• 35:47
  Emerson: When I first started studying, uh, GE psychotherapy, I was reading a book by Zike and he said like, it's amazing how much you see when you look.
• 36:00
  Emerson: You know, and then I thought, oh great, I'm gonna be good at this 'cause I, I can look and I can see things.
• 36:05
  Emerson: Well, I, I had a big lesson ahead of me, that's for sure.
• 36:09
  Emerson: 'cause I thought, no, I can see what I can see, but there is so much more that I cannot, but I did not know that.
• 36:15
  Emerson: I didn't know so soon enough because like, oh my God, there is more now I'm seeing it and there's a process that's going on on the continuous because the field, you know, has so much.
• 36:28
  Emerson: Well, it has everything basically.
• 36:30
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 36:31
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 36:31
  Tracy: Is there,
• 36:32
  Emerson: and that, that is my, that's my presentation for the isca sharing, uh, learning by sharing, you know?
• 36:37
  Tracy: Yes.
• 36:38
  Emerson: Field memory and systemic intelligence.
• 36:41
  Emerson: I think
• 36:41
  Tracy: field memory and systemic intelligence.
• 36:43
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 36:43
  Emerson: Yes, yes, yes.
• 36:45
  Tracy: Can you constellate anything with it, with the five elements or is it, is there a something that you wouldn't constellate with it?
• 36:54
  Emerson: When you ate the five elements, I have no idea what, what's gonna happen.
• 36:58
  Emerson: So whatever comes is whatever we work with.
• 37:02
  Emerson: But one thing I know we can trust the field,
• 37:06
  Tracy: so, so have you ever done an organization with it?
• 37:09
  Tracy: Is it?
• 37:10
  Tracy: Uh,
• 37:10
  Emerson: no.
• 37:11
  Emerson: I, I don't, I never, uh, I have participated in organizational constellations, uh, as a client and when I run, uh, the five element constellation training for constellation facilitators, there were two people.
• 37:27
  Emerson: But I run two groups, and each one of these groups, there were a person who worked with the organization.
• 37:33
  Tracy: Mm.
• 37:33
  Emerson: So they were planning to use that, uh, a, uh, apply that in an organization.
• 37:39
  Emerson: One of, one of them I sort of keep in touch and, uh, is amazing what she's doing with that.
• 37:44
  Emerson: And, uh, basically applying the same principles and applying that to organizational, uh, situation and learning from it as well.
• 37:53
  Emerson: Yes,
• 37:54
  Tracy: great.
• 37:55
  Tracy: So like you say, people come and and not have an issue, but they put in the five elements and then from there, so they might have something bubbling.
• 38:05
  Tracy: Right.
• 38:06
  Tracy: But they're not putting that in the field as such.
• 38:09
  Emerson: In the workshop.
• 38:09
  Emerson: I do give them the choice.
• 38:11
  Tracy: Okay.
• 38:12
  Emerson: To consulate an issue or the five elements?
• 38:16
  Emerson: Yeah.
• 38:16
  Emerson: And I find this very important that they have that choice because, uh, sometimes they say, oh, I have this issue, but they don't know if I should do the five element.
• 38:26
  Emerson: I say, well, which one is most charged and uncomfortable?
• 38:30
  Emerson: I say, oh, the issue.
• 38:31
  Emerson: Okay, go.
• 38:32
  Emerson: That's the one where, that's where the energy is.
• 38:34
  Tracy: So if they put the issue in, does the, do you use the five elements in that?
• 38:39
  Emerson: No.
• 38:39
  Emerson: No, then I don't, then I
• 38:40
  Tracy: It's more of a traditional constellation.
• 38:42
  Emerson: Yeah, more traditional constellation.
• 38:44
  Emerson: And sometimes they, they have an issue and they go to the constellation.
• 38:47
  Emerson: Sometimes they say, uh uh, what the issue was, and that can create a bit of a focus on that as well.
• 38:55
  Emerson: But it shows what it shows.
• 38:56
  Emerson: Yes.
• 38:57
  Emerson: And then we work with that.
• 38:58
  Emerson: But usually they say, well, we approach the issue from a place that they didn't think of.
• 39:04
  Emerson: But, uh, sort of touch the issue.
• 39:06
  Emerson: 'cause of course nothing separated from anything.
• 39:08
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 39:09
  Emerson: Yeah.
• 39:09
  Emerson: So everything is part of, and we are one anyway.
• 39:13
  Tracy: That's right.
• 39:14
  Tracy: Right.
• 39:15
  Tracy: Do you do this online or is it just in person?
• 39:19
  Emerson: No, I do online as well.
• 39:21
  Emerson: Yes.
• 39:21
  Emerson: Yes.
• 39:21
  Tracy: Okay.
• 39:22
  Tracy: Yes.
• 39:22
  Emerson: I'm, I'm, I'm with a, a constellation intensive with, uh, ing and, uh, I've, I've done, uh, a module there and I have another module coming up with them, and I do the five, I've did the five LMS with them, and I do individual sessions, and I'm not, haven't been doing Group Five Elements, constellation Group sessions online, because I.
• 39:43
  Emerson: No busy enough with my, uh, weekly C clients and my workshops.
• 39:48
  Emerson: Uh, so I let go of the, uh, constellation workshops online.
• 39:53
  Emerson: Uh, but I do have individual sessions online.
• 39:57
  Tracy: So if someone wanted to find you, and I know we're gonna put the link in the thread, but if I like to have it, uh, verbally shared as well, how would someone find you if they were looking for you?
• 40:09
  Emerson: Well, my, my website is the, uh, www dot MM bastos, E-M-E-R-S-O-N.
• 40:20
  Emerson: B-A-S-T-O-S ms ambassadors.co.uk.
• 40:25
  Emerson: Mm-hmm.
• 40:25
  Emerson: This is my website.
• 40:27
  Emerson: And so, uh, there is a, uh, one of the pages, the workshop pages has all the listings there and my email as well if they want to get in touch with me.
• 40:36
  Emerson: So that's probably the most direct places.
• 40:38
  Emerson: But I'm on Facebook as well, which is the facebook.com slashers amazon dot batos dot 50.
• 40:47
  Emerson: Slash that's the Facebook, uh, link.
• 40:50
  Emerson: But, uh, but, but the best way is my website or my email, which is info@amazonba.co.uk.
• 40:58
  Tracy: Brilliant.
• 40:59
  Tracy: Brilliant.
• 41:00
  Tracy: Um, what else?
• 41:03
  Tracy: Let's see, what else?
• 41:04
  Tracy: I think there's time for another question before we sign off,
• 41:09
  Emerson: but one thing that I just want to mention because there, uh, there is the five elements, geal, psychotherapy, uh, Shasu, uh, and, and also there is another, uh, part that informs, informs my work very, very deeply, especially with the five elements and the individual session, the psychotherapy as well, uh, which is the attachment theory.
• 41:31
  Emerson: That really gives me a, a, it changed my way of approaching therapy or constellation know.
• 41:39
  Emerson: Having that information really has deepened and solid fights, or created a good ground, firm ground, uh, for my work.
• 41:48
  Emerson: Really, really resonated with me and really informs my, my interventions and my approach.
• 41:55
  Tracy: Can you share a little bit more about that for those who don't know?
• 41:58
  Emerson: No.
• 41:58
  Emerson: Attachment theory is Origin from John Bobi.
• 42:02
  Emerson: Uh, but Mary Ainsworth, she was the person who really went very big into, into, uh, uh, research and, uh, all of that.
• 42:10
  Emerson: It's basically, uh, for example, that expression, uh, uh, uh, secure.
• 42:14
  Emerson: You know, this is from attachment theory, secure base.
• 42:18
  Emerson: It is this sort of what's called the ideal, uh, uh, uh, attachment to, to develop.
• 42:25
  Emerson: And there are certain qualities that are needed for, for that to be, in order for a child to develop secure base with the other.
• 42:34
  Emerson: And the idea of developing a secure base with the other, it means then the child can slowly develop a secure base with themselves.
• 42:41
  Emerson: Yeah.
• 42:42
  Emerson: And, uh, so, uh.
• 42:44
  Emerson: Um, welcomed, celebrated, supported, heard, and uh, and being attended to on a regular basis, uh, that the child knows it is there.
• 42:57
  Emerson: So that allows the child to feel very secure, and so they feel free to be a child and play and, uh, and knowing that this base is therefore when they want a need.
• 43:08
  Emerson: So that's sort of a, and of course there are many different types of attachment styles.
• 43:14
  Emerson: Uh, ambivalence, ambiguous, uh, uh, um, uh, what's the word?
• 43:20
  Emerson: Yes.
• 43:20
  Emerson: Uh, not distressed.
• 43:22
  Emerson: I forget the, the word.
• 43:23
  Emerson: Yeah.
• 43:24
  Emerson: But, uh, the word's not coming to me now.
• 43:26
  Emerson: But there are many secure attachments is the one I talked about.
• 43:29
  Emerson: Yeah.
• 43:29
  Emerson: And then there is, uh, ambivalence insecure, and the other one, that's when the person cannot self, uh, regulate very well and disorganized attachment.
• 43:40
  Emerson: So when the person, uh, had an environment that did not allow them to.
• 43:46
  Emerson: Have enough security sites and therefore they don't have enough security inside themselves.
• 43:52
  Emerson: So it becomes a, a disorganized type of attachment
• 43:55
  Tracy: and that's part of the work as well.
• 43:57
  Tracy: Yeah,
• 43:58
  Emerson: that's informs me, uh, of uh, how I work with clients individually and the group as well, because the by nature, the five element constellation is an intra psychic, really shows your inner world there.
• 44:11
  Emerson: And so these things do come up very clearly there.
• 44:15
  Tracy: Intriguing.
• 44:16
  Tracy: I'd love to, I'd love to be a part, you know, to witness that on a, in a, in a whole day.
• 44:21
  Tracy: 'cause you know, we only got snippets of things, right?
• 44:24
  Emerson: Yes, exactly.
• 44:25
  Emerson: Yeah.
• 44:25
  Emerson: And we got many, a lot of, uh, uh, uh, experiences in the, in Mexico.
• 44:32
  Emerson: All the presentations was so rich, wasn't it?
• 44:34
  Tracy: Yeah, very much, very much.
• 44:36
  Emerson: Yes.
• 44:37
  Emerson: I left there with so much to process and, uh, so many.
• 44:41
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 44:42
  Tracy: Well, thank you so much for sharing and um, I know there's so much more that we could dive into here, but, uh,
• 44:50
  Emerson: constellation work, I think you can see that I feel so excited when I'm talking about constellation work because it really, I find it so energizing.
• 44:57
  Emerson: It's so.
• 44:59
  Emerson: Uh, well, that's why we are doing this work, isn't it?
• 45:02
  Tracy: Mm. Yeah.
• 45:04
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 45:04
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 45:05
  Tracy: I, I don't think when I first met her, I don't think I would've called it for me energizing at the time.
• 45:10
  Tracy: Now, at the time, it was a, it was a, an acknowledgement of, of remembering, of understanding, and I found times it's very exhausting.
• 45:21
  Tracy: But now, as.
• 45:23
  Tracy: Because I think there's more.
• 45:25
  Tracy: It's helped me to understand myself more and to be more easeful, and there's much more that flows through me.
• 45:30
  Tracy: So yeah, it is energizing.
• 45:31
  Tracy: I get that now.
• 45:32
  Emerson: Yeah,
• 45:33
  Tracy: that's been a real process.
• 45:34
  Tracy: Hey,
• 45:34
  Emerson: well that's the word, isn't it?
• 45:36
  Emerson: It's a process.
• 45:37
  Emerson: Process, a process.
• 45:39
  Emerson: And the is an ongoing thing.
• 45:41
  Emerson: So the journey never ends really.
• 45:45
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 45:46
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 45:47
  Tracy: Well, thank you so much, Emerson.
• 45:49
  Tracy: It's been beautiful to have you here and to share your passion.
• 45:53
  Tracy: I can hear it in your voice when you're sharing and you know, um, and.
• 45:59
  Tracy: The pleasure of meeting you in person too.
• 46:00
  Tracy: And I know that you emanate that in your being, just by being who you are.
• 46:05
  Tracy: So thank you so much for being here and sharing and uh, look forward to seeing you again sometime.
• 46:12
  Emerson: Yeah, no, same here.
• 46:13
  Emerson: And uh, it was lovely meeting you Mexico and this is amazing that we are here and, uh, sharing these moments and just not making it available to other people as well.
• 46:22
  Emerson: Thank you so much for this lovely experience.
• 46:24
  Tracy: You are welcome.
• 46:25
  Tracy: You're welcome.
• 46:27
  Tracy: Thank you for listening.
• 46:28
  Tracy: Head over to Instagram and tell me what's resonated for you with this episode.
• 46:33
  Tracy: You'll find me at Tracy dot Cartwright.
• 46:36
  Tracy: That's Tracy with no e dot Cartwright and the or head over to my website, Tracy cartwright.co.nz and receive a free audio with the gift from your ancestors.
• 46:49
  Tracy: So until next time, be kind to yourself and have fun doing it.