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The Email That Cost Him His Job (And What It Can Teach Podcasters About Trust) · Your Mic

• 0:00
  Hey, it's Freddie Cruz and during this episode of your mic, which is for new and aspiring podcast hosts
• 0:06
  We're not going to talk about podcasting
• 0:08
  We're not going to talk about gear downloads social media content strategy
• 0:13
  We're not going to talk about your analytic dashboard instead
• 0:17
  We're going to talk about planning for the future and doing right by the people who trust you even
• 0:22
  When it's difficult today's guest is mr. Chung Wu today
• 0:26
  He runs his own firm and helps families plan for retirement. But years ago
• 0:31
  He was the lone financial advisor inside a giant machine who warned his clients to get out of in-run before it collapsed
• 0:39
  He sent an email telling them to take some money off the table and a cost him his job
• 0:44
  Now if you're a podcast host who serves clients listeners or a community this conversation is for you
• 0:51
  We're going to talk about how he thinks about saving and investing as an entrepreneur
• 0:55
  Why future you should always have a seat at the table and what it looks like to put your clients first when everyone around you
• 1:03
  Once you to stay quiet
• 1:04
  It's a master class an integrity long-term thinking and building a business you can live with for the next 40 years
• 1:14
  Mr. Wu, what do most people get wrong about planning for the future?
• 1:23
  I
• 1:24
  think the
• 1:25
  The baby boomer are doing it. All right
• 1:29
  Okay, we safe
• 1:31
  through 401k individual IRA accounts
• 1:35
  CD in the bank things like that. So we have been doing quite well and
• 1:40
  We are the generation having the biggest asset size
• 1:45
  Right now you know the state
• 1:47
  But the Gen X Gen Z
• 1:50
  They tend to have a different kind of idea
• 1:54
  They think that we have worked too hard the baby boomers in the past
• 1:58
  Oh, and so now they want me
• 2:02
  They want to spend money on themself on the children and
• 2:07
  Perhaps sometimes overlooking the saving adamant for themself in the future
• 2:13
  But also I have to admit to you that they are very smart
• 2:18
  Okay, the thing is they need to build
• 2:22
  their characters on top of being smart
• 2:25
  So they always need should save up some money three to four one K
• 2:31
  Especially through the company program the matching a dollar for dollar up to three to six percent and
• 2:39
  then
• 2:40
  Spend accordingly
• 2:42
  saves up save up some rainy day fun on the side and
• 2:46
  and
• 2:48
  They can enjoy life as much as they want to but they do need to make some sacrifice
• 2:54
  In terms of saving up for the future spending accordingly
• 3:00
  And when you talk about three to six percent of a paycheck
• 3:05
  Seems like it's not really that much if you were to break it down dollar for dollar three to three to six cents of every dollar
• 3:13
  Seems to be chump change
• 3:16
  Yes, mr. Cruz, but the point is what I'm seeing is the matching part from the employer
• 3:23
  If you pick six if you put in six percent and they match six percent you talk about you are saving 12% of your paycheck
• 3:33
  On an annual basis
• 3:35
  It adds up and also with the market growing
• 3:40
  That we what will be quite handsome at the end of the day
• 3:46
  You know, I would assuming that most people have a 40 years life
• 3:52
  A span of working and accumulating and this stage is usually called accumulation stage
• 4:00
  That they accumulate the wealth
• 4:02
  um
• 4:04
  To prepare for retirement
• 4:06
  But in my philosophy, I always advocate the balance of life. Yes
• 4:12
  I'm not working crazy later baby boomer
• 4:15
  but yet
• 4:18
  You do need to save some money
• 4:21
  Okay, and I want to go I want to go to go back to working because that's something that you and I had a great conversation about before recording
• 4:28
  But um, I did want to ask you something before we do that
• 4:32
  that is in regards to
• 4:35
  A good chunk of the people that that listen to the show are entrepreneur. So maybe they're not traditionally employed
• 4:42
  And so what would be your advice for someone who
• 4:45
  Is a business owner is a solo pernure
• 4:48
  Doesn't necessarily have a 401k to contribute to and so what would be just like a like a 10,000 square foot and understand
• 4:55
  This is not official investment advice, but you know what like what what would you say to somebody who let's say you know
• 5:02
  Let's talk about me. Let's say I got a thousand bucks and I've invested in myself
• 5:09
  courses
• 5:10
  workshops whatnot
• 5:11
  I want to get back into the game of saving. I don't have a 401k
• 5:15
  Um, what would you recommend? I am an individual entrepreneur too. I own my own business
• 5:23
  Myself and my assistants
• 5:25
  But I do have a plan retirement plan
• 5:29
  Call 401k solo. Oh, so there is that. Yes. Gotcha. Yes. There's that you can that there's a lot of different program
• 5:37
  For entrepreneur to engage okay, and I can save up to uh 58,000 a year
• 5:44
  And that allowance increase
• 5:47
  As it's being cola adjusted cola adjust means they're adjusting the amount you can contribute into it
• 5:54
  based on the inflation index
• 5:57
  So if you can keep doing that
• 6:01
  You will be fine and also
• 6:04
  It is actually not a bad thing
• 6:07
  To save money outside of any retirement plan
• 6:11
  Okay as long as you know how to manage it
• 6:14
  As long as you stay in the market to obtain long-term capital gain the tax burden
• 6:22
  Should not be that bad at all
• 6:24
  And it's max at 15%
• 6:28
  And so it's okay to pay Uncle Sam there's always my philosophies
• 6:33
  And if you can grow it outside of the retirement plan
• 6:38
  And that actually more power to you is more flexible
• 6:43
  You can do when you need the money you you will have money to use for your business or for whatever
• 6:50
  Okay, but a healthy portion of your saving
• 6:53
  Should be also invested in the retirement side and that different program different platform for you to accomplish that
• 7:02
  Okay, and for one case solo is a very good program and
• 7:09
  sizable amount of saving every year, but you need to do it consistently
• 7:14
  Because your business person one year you may leg of cash to contribute
• 7:21
  So you do it on a monthly basis
• 7:24
  Put it into that program
• 7:26
  Right underneath the allowable amount you will be fine after a number of years
• 7:31
  You talk about the prime working ages of 25 to 65 and
• 7:39
  When we had spoken before
• 7:42
  You talk about loving what you do so much that you want to do that you're in it for
• 7:48
  Another 10 to 11 years
• 7:50
  And so I find that to be one of the most interesting things that I've heard someone say
• 7:55
  Because typically we think of retirement
• 7:57
  Peace out. I'm done working at 65 and those weirdos in Europe are like oh, I'm retiring at 60
• 8:04
  But there's so much more life to be lived and so can you build on
• 8:09
  On the fact that you love doing what you do as a finance as a financial expert advisor individual advisor
• 8:16
  um
• 8:19
  Just can you can you just talk a little bit more about about doing what you love
• 8:25
  At
• 8:26
  We tiring is a very personal decisions
• 8:31
  Some people think that they have worked hard all the life
• 8:35
  And being working in a corporation is not easy. No, it's not you have to face all kind of
• 8:43
  uh political issues
• 8:46
  uh diplomacy issues
• 8:49
  A bad boss back company and so a lot of frustrating
• 8:54
  First station were created during your career and but to me I've been in my own business for 26 years
• 9:04
  And I build my clients asset
• 9:07
  And I start my own hatch fund
• 9:09
  So that is why I enjoy what I'm doing and a lot of family depend on my operation every day
• 9:17
  They simply don't want to look at the portfolio. They won't they don't want to be uh
• 9:23
  Slow down by managing the own portfolio
• 9:27
  And the most important thing is they want to be away from the portfolio
• 9:32
  Let's emotional attachment so they pay me to do that
• 9:36
  And uh, I enjoy
• 9:39
  Taking up the responsibilities because of my past
• 9:44
  That I know
• 9:46
  Was some financial
• 9:49
  bad character can harm the investor to some degree
• 9:53
  So to me is a personal choice. I love what I'm doing. I have five grandchildren
• 9:59
  And I spend time with them
• 10:01
  Uh, I wish every day I have uh 36 hours to do different things. Yeah, so and also I think this is my personal belief
• 10:13
  If you work you keep on working
• 10:16
  Your body will become better
• 10:18
  Your mind will become better because once you completely retire especially from a corporate world your whole living
• 10:27
  Process slow down tremendously
• 10:31
  Okay, and that is why I believe in working out in the gym
• 10:36
  Zumba class I believe in exercising my brain
• 10:40
  From many good reasons I believe in helping my clients that usually had been with me for over 20 years
• 10:49
  and
• 10:50
  Provide them the result that they desire and also another important element years
• 10:58
  Because the market is a big human being
• 11:01
  The behavior is repetitive and being in the business longer
• 11:06
  Act actually make me see better
• 11:09
  I'm learning every day
• 11:12
  If I stop learning that's the day I need to
• 11:15
  Exit the business
• 11:18
  You've been in business for more than 25 years
• 11:22
  How long did it take for you to come to this personal philosophy of
• 11:28
  Consistently learning on an on a daily basis of you know, I'm in this for the long haul for my clients
• 11:35
  And it seems like it's just a big fun game like a big puzzle piece
• 11:41
  That is that you're solving on a daily basis as a business owner
• 11:45
  I
• 11:47
  Will say it's about 15 years ago
• 11:50
  2010 when I'm my graded from a company and pro-year financial advisor into a independent financial advisor
• 12:00
  While I am now RIA I own my own company independently. I'm under no other company's control
• 12:09
  Uh, I take in my client the way that I want to
• 12:12
  Within the boundary of ethical
• 12:16
  being ethical. So
• 12:19
  also I
• 12:22
  15 years before 15 years ago
• 12:25
  I am always very tight in terms of my thinking range
• 12:31
  uh, I was tight on money
• 12:35
  15 years ago like everybody else
• 12:38
  But 15 years ago
• 12:40
  2010 there's about five years after I settled all the litigation against emerald and ubs
• 12:48
  I come to the realization one day that I need to lose up lose enough once I start understanding the elements of
• 12:59
  Relaxing my own philosophies. I can tell you honestly, uh, Mr. Cruz
• 13:07
  Money start coming in
• 13:10
  It make you
• 13:13
  Make better decisions and the open mind
• 13:17
  Keep you going and it will reward you spiritually or financially
• 13:22
  And I can assure you that if any young people watching me today
• 13:26
  I can assure you that if you keep a balance of mindset
• 13:30
  Your life your financial arrangement
• 13:34
  You will be fine. You will do the right thing
• 13:38
  And we what will start coming you and open mind keeps you going. I love that. I love that you have to you have no other choices
• 13:47
  You have to you have to enjoy life being a human being yeah, okay, but you also need to be responsible
• 13:55
  To save up for yourself, especially
• 13:58
  And then perhaps leave some legacy to your children, but that is very minor. You need to take it yourself your spouse
• 14:06
  Mm-hmm. You need to help the others
• 14:10
  While you are gainfully employ or read after retirement
• 14:15
  Uh, I think there's a simple purpose of being a human being
• 14:20
  And it's a can easily be done as long if you you're doing it systematically and consistently you mentioned in Ron uh and
• 14:32
  I've
• 14:33
  learned about
• 14:35
  Who you are and what you did in the name of your clients and protecting them
• 14:41
  And doing the right thing by your clients
• 14:45
  And there was blowback
• 14:49
  To put it mildly
• 14:51
  So let's let's talk about that because you know again
• 14:55
  People listening to this show are servicing clients and
• 14:59
  Sure, they're they're not fine. They're not in the financial space
• 15:03
  I think there's also a lesson to be learned that you always do you always do right by your clients even when
• 15:10
  It's not popular
• 15:13
  I test us store a long story back, but I try to make it brief
• 15:18
  um
• 15:21
  After I finished my restaurant to a career in 1999
• 15:26
  December christmas day
• 15:28
  I saw my last restaurant and uh
• 15:32
  I've become a financial advisor
• 15:35
  my uh educational background was finance undergrad
• 15:39
  accounting in my master degree MBA
• 15:43
  And so I start get my training uh at the UBS
• 15:48
  And uh at that time I joined a group that we specialize in
• 15:54
  Ticking care of emerald employees
• 15:57
  NQSO NQSO stand for non-qualified stop option exercise
• 16:03
  That is how we establish the relationship with emerald and proye slash investors with us
• 16:11
  And from there we manage the portfolio accordingly
• 16:16
  so um
• 16:20
  In 2021
• 16:22
  August
• 16:25
  On the 21st
• 16:27
  I sent out my uh usual email to 73 of my client telling them that
• 16:32
  Uh after I reviewed the 10Q report that the document that they filed with the SEC
• 16:40
  I feel like that
• 16:42
  It's getting more serious in terms of the problem with emerald
• 16:47
  So I asked them to take some money off the table
• 16:50
  I worked to uh meet night past midnight a little bit past that
• 16:54
  And uh I sent out the email around 1210 in the morning
• 17:00
  On august 21st morning
• 17:02
  And uh
• 17:04
  So after that I went home, but in the email I basically
• 17:09
  I told my client that you need to take some money off the table
• 17:13
  Number one is because of your over concentration
• 17:16
  Number two the number doesn't look good
• 17:19
  Uh at that time so
• 17:23
  Then I come back to the office around 8 o'clock the same day
• 17:27
  By 10 o'clock I caught I got a call from my branch manager
• 17:32
  Telling me to go down there to his office
• 17:35
  He said chong
• 17:37
  What have you done?
• 17:39
  Why you send a email like this?
• 17:41
  You you you're you're biting the hand to feed us
• 17:45
  So he'll take a look he took a look of the email and say
• 17:49
  Yes, yes, yes, yes after three years is
• 17:55
  And he told me
• 17:57
  Chong you cannot do that
• 17:59
  Our firm has a strong by recommendation and emerald
• 18:03
  You cannot do this to emerald that give us income every month
• 18:10
  I say I'm sorry. I have detailed them the truth
• 18:12
  But I thought this has gone through compliance
• 18:15
  scrutiny before
• 18:17
  The email was released into the
• 18:22
  Into the channel
• 18:25
  And then at the end of the conversation he said you're fired, you know go to the assistant manager
• 18:30
  He's gonna arrange everything
• 18:32
  So I was fired on the same day around 2 o'clock
• 18:36
  August 21st 2021
• 18:39
  And come to find out later that UBS was instructed by emerald and executive
• 18:46
  The financial advisor financial
• 18:50
  CFO
• 18:52
  Andrew Fatztao to find me to terminate me because my negative
• 18:57
  Atong you my email. So
• 19:00
  Fine, so I ended up being terminate on the same day five days later
• 19:04
  I was hired by another firm in Houston
• 19:09
  So come next year 22 2002
• 19:13
  Associates press call me up out of the brew. They said
• 19:18
  Mr. Will we gonna release your story
• 19:22
  You have any comment or additional
• 19:25
  Information you want to share with us
• 19:29
  I was doing the business so I said no, I cannot make any additional comment
• 19:34
  So the story broke
• 19:37
  in February 2002
• 19:40
  And the rest of history
• 19:43
  so
• 19:44
  but
• 19:47
  I sent out the email on August 21st 2001 and emerald file bankruptcy
• 19:54
  in December
• 19:56
  On December the second 2001
• 20:00
  It's only a few months after my email
• 20:03
  So
• 20:04
  I don't think
• 20:07
  I'm off on the left few
• 20:09
  I think I my my my suggestion and my advice is
• 20:14
  Honest transparent
• 20:18
  That is something I always hold in my heart be transparent and serve your client
• 20:25
  with your utmost best abilities
• 20:29
  not based on the corporate directive
• 20:31
  or
• 20:34
  some
• 20:35
  Unknown factored in the system that stopped me from doing that so
• 20:40
  And it still hold true today
• 20:43
  Uh
• 20:44
  Transparency take care of your client
• 20:47
  Take a bullet for them if I need to but now since I own my own firm
• 20:51
  I don't have to take the bullet anymore
• 20:54
  Okay, so that is pretty much the nutshell of what had happened in the past
• 21:00
  Freddy
• 21:04
  Is there anything you would have done different no absolutely not
• 21:08
  And I know I in I understand that like there's the whole transparency thing is there anything
• 21:14
  I guess better better framed
• 21:16
  What what could have been done differently and maybe this is maybe this would have been it
• 21:20
  Maybe this is a question for the people who used to employ you
• 21:25
  Like hey, what would you have done differently? Well, like would you have less would you have heard mr. Wu out?
• 21:33
  Uh, I was nobody
• 21:36
  And you hide out that no respectively. I I
• 21:40
  Even in today's environment. I'm still nobody
• 21:44
  But I believe in the system the email system
• 21:48
  That I have sent out this kind of email many times before August 21st
• 21:53
  and
• 21:55
  That is a system in
• 21:58
  UBS email
• 22:00
  Platform that that if the email is going out to more than two people
• 22:06
  Then it will route to the compliance department. Mm-hmm. They will they will reveal it
• 22:13
  Send it out or come back to slap my hand
• 22:16
  So I totally understand the system and I was relying on that belief that
• 22:23
  Hey, if they don't feel comfortable on it
• 22:27
  Then they should they should come and score with me
• 22:31
  Reprimand me or slap my hand
• 22:35
  Don't do that anymore. So
• 22:37
  uh, but they send it out and
• 22:41
  During the litigation
• 22:44
  Down the road we found out that the compliance department will lease my email
• 22:49
  Because they think it's okay and
• 22:52
  This kind of email like kind of email has been sent out numerous times
• 22:56
  But I have never used the language of taking some money off the table
• 23:02
  Uh, but it's getting to a very serious stage. So I have to use a little bit stronger
• 23:07
  Uh, language
• 23:10
  But if UBS
• 23:13
  Decide to enslave themselves to Amron such a corrupted corporation. That is not much I can do
• 23:21
  Yeah, being a nobody
• 23:23
  Being just a number and an employee
• 23:26
  Um, they can do whatever they want especially in Texas
• 23:31
  You take anybody can terminate me with double costs and in in Texas. So
• 23:39
  Um
• 23:41
  I have no regrets of what I have done
• 23:45
  And if you put me back in 2001, I would I would have done the same thing
• 23:50
  I mean what losing a job
• 23:54
  It's nothing yeah compared to taking care of your client
• 23:59
  I can always survive. I can always find another path
• 24:04
  to
• 24:06
  Accomplish what I want. It's just like what I have done so far
• 24:10
  In 2025
• 24:13
  I'm just glad their emails back back when this happened because I cannot imagine
• 24:19
  If this was something that was transpiring in the 60s before emails and what we call digital receipts
• 24:28
  Now proof
• 24:30
  Seems like it would have been a lot easier to
• 24:33
  Throw to throw you under the bus
• 24:36
  And make it look like nothing happened
• 24:38
  You know what I mean
• 24:41
  This is the hypocrisy of the financial system the so-called why house
• 24:48
  brokage house
• 24:50
  So any email go to
• 24:53
  more than two
• 24:54
  Two persons it will consider as advertisement
• 24:59
  And you need compliance approval on it
• 25:03
  It's totally a CYA kind of arrangement and on my termination paperwork
• 25:10
  I was crowned with that
• 25:13
  violation say I sent out an authorized email to more than 73 clients
• 25:20
  Which I know they have a system check and balance that
• 25:25
  My compliant office at UBS at that time
• 25:29
  Study my email they release the email and what can I say but anyway
• 25:36
  It's all done water under the bridge. I have no regret. I would do the same thing and
• 25:43
  But it has been very difficult especially the year after my termination even my family
• 25:50
  Do not understand why I did that
• 25:53
  And so but I think they slowly understand why I have to do that
• 26:00
  and
• 26:02
  So I never doubt myself in that aspect and I'm thank God. This is the patch on
• 26:09
  That I can wear today. What is your message for your five grandchildren?
• 26:13
  They grow up and they're 30 40
• 26:17
  And hopefully by the time they're that age they they will have known what their what their grandfather did
• 26:22
  My incident is nothing major. It's just a personal decision that I make
• 26:29
  I just want my grandchildren to be honest
• 26:34
  Upright
• 26:36
  Exercise the intelligence
• 26:40
  Having wealth or not having wealth
• 26:44
  It's not the major issue in the life
• 26:48
  They need to balance things out
• 26:51
  Enjoy life
• 26:53
  Be financially responsible
• 26:55
  But the key thing is
• 26:57
  Do what they like be productive
• 27:01
  However life is so short
• 27:03
  Freddie
• 27:05
  Yes, it is okay. I mean if somebody you guys are watching today. I tell I'm 71 years old
• 27:12
  And I come to the state in 1972
• 27:15
  53 years already
• 27:17
  Compass in front of my eyes
• 27:20
  So make your day as productive as possible
• 27:24
  Do the right thing and do the right thing a very simple concept
• 27:29
  Everybody know what is the right thing to do and I enjoy my life so so far and and I have no regret
• 27:38
  And I just wish my grandchildren can do the same thing
• 27:42
  Don't submit themselves to dot forces
• 27:46
  And be open transparent happy others
• 27:49
  And enjoy what they do
• 27:52
  It's just as simple as that
• 27:55
  Mr. Wood's been an honor to be able to chat with you both before this
• 28:01
  Conversation and now and I really thank you for the opportunity to speak with you about
• 28:08
  Business and all the things that you've experienced
• 28:13
  It's my pressure
• 28:15
  At my age right now, I want to share
• 28:19
  My experience as much as I can
• 28:22
  And as I told you earlier the market is a big human organism that we had the repeating behavior
• 28:31
  You just have to understand it
• 28:34
  carefully
• 28:36
  and
• 28:39
  diversify
• 28:42
  conservative at times
• 28:45
  And aggressive at different times
• 28:47
  But always use a diversify and balance approach
• 28:53
  Don't put all the eggs in one basket
• 28:56
  Like my emerald clients before
• 29:00
  Like the MCI employee before
• 29:04
  so
• 29:06
  As long as you understand the recent reward sign
• 29:09
  Take a balance approach you will be fine
• 29:13
  And I do admire the younger generation. They're so smart so fast
• 29:18
  And they have a lot of good thing in the head
• 29:21
  That the baby boomer cannot emulate
• 29:25
  And so make good use of your intelligence
• 29:30
  Do it in a human way
• 29:33
  And take care of yourself, take care of your family also in the human way
• 29:37
  And that's why I can ask you to do
• 29:40
  And
• 29:43
  I thank you for the imitation today
• 29:45
  Mr. Cruz
• 29:46
  Pleasure is all mine and y'all I will link up to Mr. Cheng Wu's information in the show notes
• 29:53
  So you can reach out to him if you like to have a conversation about planning for the future and
• 29:59
  Sir, thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much
• 30:02
  You