Latest / The Parenting Podcast / Do chores have to be a chore? (Pt. 2) | Ep. 02

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Do chores have to be a chore? (Pt. 2) | Ep. 02 · The Parenting Podcast

0:58
Cheryl (2): There were unforeseen consequences to our conversation last time, Ellen.Because we were talking about chores and I'll admit I'm a widowed empty nester, and I keep the general house.
1:12
Cheryl (2): It looks just fine, I don't know if it's a reflection of the character we were talking about, but I started looking around.
1:20
Cheryl (2): I started finding dust bunnies that had been left alone and felt deserted for a long time.
1:26
Cheryl (2): Do they still call them dust bunnies?
1:29
Ellen: I don't know.
1:30
Ellen: I just learned that term of few years ago from my husband, but I didn't know what they were, but you know, those little poofy things of dust that fly around,
1:40
Cheryl: Well just get in the corners and you didn't look there before.
1:43
Ellen: Well, the reason I learned about dust bunnies is because one time when Mike and I were first married, I'm a short person and Mike's almost six foot and I couldn't see on top of the refrigerator.
1:55
Ellen: And one day my husband mentioned, he goes, you know, there's a lot of dust up there and he actually dusted the top of the refrigerator for me.
2:01
Ellen: I didn't even know it needed dusting cause I couldn't see it.
2:04
Ellen: But that brought us to a question.
2:06
Ellen: I asked him, oh, are there other things sometimes that you see that I don't see?
2:09
Ellen: And he goes, well, yeah.
2:11
Ellen: You know, on our staircase, which at that time was a wooden stairs.
2:16
Ellen: He goes those little dust bunnies.
2:18
Ellen: I went, what?
2:19
Ellen: What's a dust bunny?
2:21
Ellen: And he took me because those little tiny puffs of dust oh.
2:26
Ellen: And that was a shock to me because I didn't know what a dust bunny was.
2:29
Ellen: And then I learned that dust accumulated on the stairs.
2:32
Cheryl: It's so funny cause you're saying.
2:35
Cheryl: You didn't know about the top of your fridge.
2:37
Cheryl: We are definitely a tall family.
2:39
Cheryl: And so we use the top of the refrigerator to put things on, but also we had friends that said, we have to have you come over every few months.
2:47
Ellen: To check your top of your fridge
2:49
Cheryl: if you don't come, we don't clean it.
2:51
Ellen: Yeah.
2:52
Cheryl (2): But it doesn't matter whether you clean or don't chores, just aren't fun,.Ok, it's a reality of life.
2:57
Cheryl (2): Last time, remember we were saying, it's not about a clean house, moms, and that's what I was telling myself.
3:04
Cheryl (2): It's not about a clean house, but I'm disrupting these dust bunnies.And it really is about attitude.
3:11
Cheryl (2): And if you remember Ellen, and we said, yes, we want to create character and the right attitude in our children, but probably the best way we do that is what's our attitude.
3:22
Cheryl (2): Because this may be one of those areas that's caught a lot more than it's taught.
3:25
Ellen: Yeah.
3:26
Ellen: That's really true.
3:27
Ellen: Cause I know sometimes, I think we can all relate.
3:29
Ellen: You just have that bad attitude or we all have that one or two chores that we just hate
3:36
Cheryl: or just in general
3:37
Ellen: and so our children know that and they can see it.
3:39
Ellen: So it's hard to get our kids excited about cleaning if we're not.
3:43
Cheryl (2): That's right.
3:44
Cheryl (2): Or we just, even in the off times, like we said, that we're just complaining about work, complaining about the house, complaining about what people do and not feeding our children The example that we really want.
3:57
Ellen: Right.
3:58
Cheryl (2): Okay.
3:58
Cheryl (2): So let's get practical.
3:59
Cheryl (2): How about let's take a bedroom or playroom and you have six to eight year old aged kids and they have had a blast and you Come in and it is an absolute wreck.
4:13
Cheryl (2): Then with a good attitude, because we're working on our good attitudes and working with our kids, how would you tackle that?
4:19
Cheryl (2): Just tell the moms, what was your approach to that?
4:21
Cheryl (2): It's a wreck and there are books and there are toys and there are dolls and there are little blocks, everything.
4:27
Cheryl (2): How would you approach that?
4:28
Ellen: Yes, even toys you didn't know they had.
4:30
Ellen: That you're now stepping on.
4:33
Ellen: Well usually I would try to get them to start in one corner.
4:37
Ellen: I wouldn't say, pick up these things.
4:39
Ellen: I go start over there and work your way to the middle,
4:42
Cheryl: really?
4:43
Ellen: And that kind of like a triangle or however would look, but they would just wind up rather than just jumping into the middle of the toys and pull and, pick up this and that, we just started at one end and worked across and that seemed to go pretty well.
4:57
Cheryl (2): See, I love this because our hearts are the same about so many things, but the process.
5:04
Cheryl (2): So many times we're really different because we approached it as breaking down a problem.
5:14
Cheryl (2): And so our thought process was exactly the opposite.
5:18
Cheryl (2): Don't start in a corner, but we would work with our children and say, okay, pick up the big things first.
5:24
Cheryl (2): or it's all over the bed.
5:26
Cheryl (2): Move everything off the bed.
5:27
Cheryl (2): Make the bed right.
5:28
Cheryl (2): Then they would start with the biggest things.
5:30
Cheryl (2): What do you see?
5:31
Cheryl (2): And so they might put their stuffed animals back on the bed and then what's next.
5:36
Cheryl (2): And so just show them.
5:37
Cheryl (2): Put books back on the bookshelf and then just work our way down so they could break it down
5:43
Ellen: Yeah.
5:43
Ellen: See little pieces of it rather.
5:44
Cheryl (2): Yeah.
5:45
Cheryl (2): And one of the worst things, when my daughters were into the beads, making things.
5:51
Ellen: Oh beads,
5:52
Cheryl: Somebody for their birthday gives them a two foot by two
5:55
Ellen: Tray yes.
5:56
Cheryl: And they're up there.
5:57
Cheryl: And not even with the room that messy and someone bumps it.
6:01
Ellen: Yeah.
6:01
Cheryl: They are everywhere.
6:03
Cheryl: And I, should say we all took all the time to put them all back up, but that's when they started just going in baggies, but anyway, we felt like that equipped them to know how to break down the problem.
6:13
Cheryl: So moms, it isn't the formula.
6:17
Cheryl: Find what your style is.
6:19
Cheryl: This was our style and how we approached the problem.
6:22
Cheryl: You just did it from a different way.
6:23
Ellen: Right.
6:24
Ellen: And I liked a very orderly house and I still do, it's pretty hard sometimes with five kids.
6:31
Ellen: I didn't worry so much about the dust or a few fingerprints, but I liked everything orderly because that made me feel more comfortable.
6:39
Ellen: My children eventually grew to appreciate that when they got a little older.
6:42
Ellen: But Things would be orderly and other moms, gosh, you could eat off their, kitchen floor.
6:48
Ellen: They're just really tidy.
6:49
Cheryl: Sometimes I think when people came in our house, they would think----we ate off the kitchen floor because when you have a big family, they're cooking and everybody's in there.
6:57
Cheryl: There's a lot of food that gets on the floor.
6:59
Cheryl: What you're just saying about Orderly.
7:03
Cheryl: One of the principles I've really found is my dad used to say A place for everything and everything in its place." But the truth is it's containers.
7:12
Cheryl: And that if you have containers, you're giving your children the tools that they can succeed with.
7:19
Ellen: Yes.
7:19
Cheryl: I think The worst thing anyone ever invented was one of those big toy boxes.
7:24
Ellen: Right.
7:24
Ellen: It's true.
7:25
Cheryl: And we even had people offer them to us over the years.
7:27
Cheryl: And we said, no, because then everything's just thrown in there.
7:32
Cheryl: And the only way to get to it is just pull it all out.
7:34
Ellen: And dust ruffles are the same thing on a bed.
7:37
Ellen: Cause kids can kick it under the bed and say I've cleaned my room,
7:41
Cheryl: You were talking about not seeing the dust bunnies.
7:46
Ellen: Right.
7:46
Cheryl: Because sometimes it's really frustrating.
7:48
Cheryl: Did you ever say," well, son, is the room clean?"" Yeah.
7:52
Cheryl: okay.
7:52
Cheryl: Let's go look at it." they think it's perfect and then they walk in and it's not even 50 percent.
7:57
Ellen: I think my child's needs glasses.
8:00
Ellen: They missed a lot.
8:02
Cheryl: But it is perplexing when you can see it and it's as if they can't even really see it.
8:10
Ellen: Well, I would always tease my kids with the old saying if it was a snake, it would've bit you but the kids at first would go, oh, that's weird.
8:16
Ellen: But then when they think about it, they realize I'm standing right next to the book I was supposed to pick up.
8:20
Cheryl: Grace needs to go for little ones.
8:21
Cheryl: Cause the little ones really don't know.
8:23
Cheryl: And when they're really small, you have to show them how to put things up, that the people go in this box and the blocks go in that box
8:32
Ellen: And the books go over here.
8:35
Cheryl (2): And so you're beginning to do that, but you still need to keep doing it because.
8:41
Cheryl (2): The cleaning jobs and the rest of life are growing, and so is their learning and their knowledge.
8:47
Cheryl (2): Actually the phrase is inattentive blindness.
8:51
Cheryl (2): I don't know if it's still going around the internet, but there was some kind of video.
8:56
Cheryl (2): It would say, okay, what we want you to do is watch and see how many times these people, I don't know what they were doing, clapping their hands or picking something up they say only 50% count it right.
9:06
Ellen: Okay.
9:06
Cheryl: You're watching it and at the end, they said,"okay, so how many did you get?
9:11
Cheryl: "12, Whatever""and so what about the dancing bear?
9:15
Cheryl: And you said the dancing bear??!.
9:17
Cheryl: They could go back and rewatch it and you rewatch it.
9:20
Cheryl: And in the middle of that, there's a man dressed in a ridiculous bear costume that goes dancing back and forth across the room.
9:26
Ellen: But you're so busy looking for the other stuff.
9:28
Cheryl: Exactly.
9:28
Ellen: You just missed it.
9:29
Cheryl: It's inattentive blindness.
9:31
Cheryl: Children struggle with this They're focusing on what they see and they really don't see it.
9:37
Cheryl: So that's how we broke down a room.
9:40
Cheryl: Did you do kitchen cleanup the same way?
9:42
Cheryl: Did you start in one spot and then work your way across?
9:46
Cheryl: We assigned different tasks.
9:49
Ellen: We Just broke it up.
9:50
Ellen: One person would be in charge of the kitchen, dishwasher, things like that.
9:54
Ellen: We didn't try to get two kids in there working together.
9:57
Ellen: Unless We needed them to.
9:59
Cheryl: And we did a different way.
10:01
Cheryl: As people grew, they had different jobs.
10:04
Cheryl: So the littlest one maybe does the silverware and as you get taller, you work up Our kids did the kitchen every night.
10:11
Cheryl: We split
10:11
Cheryl (2): it.
10:11
Cheryl: I'll do the cooking.
10:12
Cheryl: You all do all the cleanup and then they worked different ways how they want to do it
10:17
Ellen: Yeah.
10:17
Ellen: And that's how we were by the time our kids were teenagers, actually, they were keeping the house and I took care of the cooking in the kitchen area.
10:25
Ellen: And that worked really well.
10:26
Cheryl: And that's a lot of training, lots of training.
10:29
Cheryl: All right.
10:29
Cheryl: So you bring up the cleaning the house.
10:31
Cheryl: Let's look at how we broke down, cleaning the house.
10:35
Cheryl: So we did ours on Friday.
10:36
Ellen: We usually did it Friday or Saturday.
10:39
Cheryl: Because you want the weekend,
10:40
Ellen: Right.
10:40
Ellen: Exactly.
10:41
Ellen: And you want to get done quick?
10:44
Cheryl (2): I tell moms over the years I've said I had one formula that I found that actually worked.
10:49
Cheryl (2): I figured it out.
10:51
Cheryl (2): And then I had the kids join me.
10:53
Cheryl (2): And what we did is list all the chores that needed to be done.
10:56
Cheryl (2): And then we put a value of points on it that wiping the sink and the counter and the mirror was two points.
11:03
Cheryl (2): And cleaning the kitchen trashcan was a five pointer cause nobody wanted it.
11:07
Cheryl (2): We had this huge list.
11:09
Cheryl (2): And then we totaled up the points and then everybody had to get so many points, 14 or 15 points.
11:15
Cheryl (2): So we would just divided it up and it was fun because This was us working together and you know, I'm big about teamwork.
11:22
Cheryl (2): And so here we are cleaning our house together.
11:25
Cheryl (2): And every time I'd say, let's look at this list and they'd say, well, actually that's a two pointer.
11:30
Cheryl (2): No, that's too easy.
11:31
Cheryl (2): You should combine these.
11:33
Cheryl (2): And so the whole family, all the kids, I didn't care.
11:36
Cheryl (2): They're talking together.
11:37
Cheryl (2): They would designate the changes or what we needed to add in I saw people's temperament sort of coming out, their personal choice.
11:47
Cheryl (2): Let's say they had to do 14 points- one Would do all one and twos as fast as they could.
11:52
Cheryl (2): And someone else goes, this is crazy.
11:54
Cheryl (2): I'm just going to do the three, five pointers.
11:56
Cheryl (2): played fun music.
11:57
Cheryl (2): I did chores that they weren't doing so we're all working together on our house and laughing.
12:03
Cheryl (2): We didn't do a lot of sweets I'd do something like buy a whole box of ice cream sandwiches and say, okay, everybody that's through by three o'clock gets to split the ice cream sandwiches.
12:14
Cheryl (2): Some people were really motivated some of my kids weren't that motivated and they didn't care and they just plodded along.
12:21
Cheryl (2): Okay.
12:21
Cheryl (2): So how did you do it?
12:22
Ellen: Well when they were young, you know, it was similar.
12:24
Ellen: We just had to work together to help train the younger children.
12:28
Ellen: But as they started getting older, I used three by five cards.
12:33
Ellen: And for each room like the bathroom, I would put just a sentence for each thing Clean the toilet scrub the sink.
12:40
Ellen: So they knew what was expected of them in that room.
12:43
Ellen: So I didn't have to supervise it.
12:44
Ellen: So each room had an index card and we didn't usually give rewards necessarily,.
12:51
Ellen: I guess because I'm the type of person, I change things up a lot.
12:54
Ellen: We went for times where we had chore charts and then we didn't, but usually the three by five cards that was a constant once they could read.
13:00
Ellen: We didn't do allowances, but we gave them money because we said just as cleaning the house as part of being a family.
13:10
Ellen: So having some of your own spending money is part of the family as opposed to the money was directly related to your chores.
13:17
Cheryl: Yeah, we did too, but you could earn more money.
13:20
Ellen: Right.
13:20
Ellen: There was always extra jobs.
13:22
Ellen: That's how they're going to learn., they're not old enough to go out side of the family and earn money.
13:27
Ellen: And that's part of being a family.
13:28
Ellen: You're sharing your chore time.
13:30
Ellen: You're sharing your money And so that helped.
13:33
Cheryl: Our philosophy is sort of, let's work hard to play hard.
13:36
Cheryl: And so there were different things with my kids, I don't care when you do it, but you have to get it done before you play.
13:42
Ellen: Yeah.
13:43
Cheryl: One time we lived in Atlanta and Ellen, well, you've lived in Hawaii and California if just never snowed.
13:51
Cheryl: And if they said the word ice, everything shut down.
13:54
Cheryl: There was big cleanup on Friday afternoon.
13:57
Cheryl: Because it was just the two of them, I said, y'all can figure out what you want to do.
13:59
Cheryl: If one of you wants to do it or you can make it drag onto Saturday, wanted them to make choices.
14:04
Cheryl: So, they dabbled with it and they decided they wanted to play.
14:08
Cheryl: I reminded them You can do this.
14:10
Cheryl: I don't mind, but before you have all the freedom you want on Saturday, whatever's going to happen or what dad does or anything.
14:18
Cheryl: You've got to finish your chores.
14:20
Cheryl: Oh mom, no problem.
14:21
Cheryl: We'll just get it done.
14:23
Cheryl: And what they didn't know is I think it was eight inches of snow came over night.
14:29
Cheryl: It was gorgeous.
14:30
Cheryl: Beautiful.
14:31
Cheryl: All the pine trees.
14:33
Cheryl: They got up"SNOW!" And started grabbing stuff to put on, to get out and ready to go That's great.
14:40
Cheryl: And I go, well come on back in and they go, mom, we want to play.
14:42
Cheryl: We never, never, never get snow! Did you complete your chores yesterday?
14:47
Cheryl: No, what's the arrangement.
14:49
Cheryl: We have to complete the chores, but please.
14:53
Cheryl: Okay.
14:53
Cheryl: You made your choice.
14:54
Cheryl: Now you have to live with it.
14:55
Cheryl: Well, they did, they could, but I will tell you both my older children remember that because it made such an impression on them.
15:03
Cheryl: Now, whether that carried on to their adult life at least they remembered, I made these choices.
15:09
Cheryl: I delayed and I paid consequences.
15:11
Ellen: I think that's the good part of, of chores.
15:14
Ellen: Especially if you're planning as a family, Hey, we want to go somewhere.
15:18
Ellen: You know, everyone's got to get their chores done and they're just different kids need different motivations.
15:23
Ellen: There's nothing wrong with motivating a child and you just have to know your child well enough to know motivates them.
15:29
Cheryl: And sometimes they're internally motivated?
15:31
Ellen: Right.
15:32
Cheryl: Then you just have to let life be consequences
15:35
Ellen: For me, my extroverts.
15:36
Ellen: It was always, if you don't get your chores done, you can't play with friends, but the introverts could care less.
15:41
Ellen: They wanted to just read the book.
15:43
Ellen: So you have to find the thing that is important to them.
15:48
Cheryl (2): Exactly.
15:49
Cheryl (2): Okay.
15:50
Cheryl (2): How about some tips?
15:51
Cheryl (2): We just have a little bit of time left.
15:53
Cheryl (2): I'm thinking of things that I learned over the years.
15:56
Cheryl (2): One of the things, like I said, I've tried to make it fun and would have kids over all the time.
16:02
Cheryl (2): Lots of kids at our house.
16:04
Cheryl (2): And when they played and they made a wreck, one of the things we would do, or we just, this is on a regular basis.
16:10
Cheryl (2): Two things is we would clean up before lunch and we cleaned up before supper.
16:16
Cheryl (2): So if we had friends over or even when it was just my children yeah.
16:21
Cheryl (2): I'm getting ready to fix lunch.
16:23
Cheryl (2): Cause they've got four kids over and say okay, just a minute.
16:29
Cheryl (2): Y'all got to pick up I'm fixing lunch.
16:31
Cheryl (2): Do you think you can pick up faster than I can make your sandwiches?
16:33
Ellen: Yeah.
16:34
Ellen: The racing
16:35
Cheryl: racing and say no, no, no, you can't.
16:39
Cheryl: That's not fair.
16:39
Cheryl: Don't start yet.
16:40
Cheryl: Cause I don't have my stuff and it just made it fun.
16:43
Cheryl: They didn't even realize they were cleaning up or we'll do, how fast do you think you can do it?
16:47
Cheryl: Timer just when they're particularly young.
16:50
Cheryl: That works real well when they're young.
16:51
Ellen: Yeah.
16:52
Ellen: Games are perfect for young kids and they take a little bit of the pressure off if you can.
16:56
Cheryl: So that works real well with the youngers not so much with a 15 or 16 year old, I liked the idea of when everybody was there and our kids were there a lot that we clean up two times a day and then about four o'clock.
17:09
Cheryl: Okay.
17:10
Cheryl: It's time now to clean up and just pause to do those.
17:13
Cheryl: And then I mentioned having everybody work up their chores, like the first thing is.
17:18
Cheryl: The silverware, but then that child start helping them to set the table and remind them, okay, how many people are there and talk it through so they can learn it and work with them.
17:29
Cheryl: And then you work your way up.
17:31
Cheryl: Our youngest said, one time, why is it nobody's taking over my chores?
17:38
Cheryl: I said, because you're the caboose oh, that's right.
17:42
Cheryl: And I'm saying.
17:44
Cheryl: Even before two bring the little ones in, because when they're young, you want them to think this is fun.
17:52
Cheryl: Joining the family is this is fun doing this work, just as a mindset.
17:57
Cheryl: And I can remember our very little ones and I've done with my grandchildren learning to fold washcloths.
18:04
Ellen: Right.
18:04
Cheryl: They're not well folded,
18:05
Ellen: They're not well folded.
18:06
Ellen: Exactly.
18:07
Cheryl: But they feel so good about themselves and then helping them take it to the cabinet and put it in.
18:12
Ellen: Cause we're not, we're looking for perfectionism, especially in our little children.
18:16
Ellen: You know, I remember a friend of ours was a psychologist and hetold my husband one time Well, if your child is tying their shoe, and then you come right behind him and retie it, it's teaching them perfectionism.
18:28
Ellen: That's not what you want them to do.
18:30
Ellen: And it's the same with the washcloths.
18:32
Ellen: If you run behind them and straighten everything up, then they feel like, oh, they didn't do it.
18:37
Ellen: Good enough.
18:38
Ellen: So you want to be able to be relaxed enough when you ask your children, especially the little ones to do the simple chores that maybe the face cloths are folded.
18:46
Ellen: Perfectly who cares?
18:47
Cheryl: Yeah.
18:47
Cheryl: I I'm glad that the psychologist said that because it really is true.
18:52
Cheryl: I have friends and in talking about it over the years and they would talk about even when they were teenagers, how demotivated and devalued they felt because by teenagers, you're doing a good, decent job but their mom would come back in because she wanted the towels only folded her perfect way.
19:14
Ellen: Right.
19:15
Cheryl: You know, or everything, it couldn't be well done.
19:20
Cheryl: It had to be perfectly done and it de-motivated them, or it started reproducing little perfectionists
19:29
Ellen: Right, right.
19:30
Cheryl: Well, moms do it your style?
19:33
Cheryl: Do it your way, watch, like you're saying are internally motivated or externally motivated working with them.
19:40
Cheryl: Laugh a lot.
19:42
Ellen: Yeah.
19:42
Ellen: Just.
19:43
Ellen: I think For all of us, the more you can be lighthearted about things.
19:48
Ellen: And it helps you know, the whistle while you work thing.
19:51
Ellen: And you know, that does help a lot.
19:53
Ellen: Cause I spent many years being the crabby mom mad at my kids because I hadn't cleaned something up properly.
19:59
Ellen: And that, that again is very demotivating.
20:02
Cheryl (2): Yeah.
20:03
Cheryl (2): And Ellen, we've talked about it before we could go back and change.
20:05
Cheryl (2): Just one thing.
20:08
Cheryl (2): It would be.
20:09
Cheryl (2): To give more grace to everybody, to ourselves and the kids.
20:13
Cheryl (2): Cause that's the perfectionism thing, right?
20:15
Cheryl (2): It's no grace right.
20:16
Cheryl (2): That we want to do it.
20:17
Cheryl (2): And I would love for my children feel loved and valued and maybe a little floppy with grace.
20:24
Ellen: Yes, exactly.
20:26
Cheryl (2): Great.
20:27
Cheryl (2): Okay.
20:27
Cheryl (2): This was fun.
20:28
Cheryl (2): Now what we're going to do next time, moms we're going to start a pattern that we hope we can keep regularly and we're going to call it, keeping it real.
20:36
Cheryl (2): And so we've talked about chores some now we're going to bring some moms that are in the midst of doing it now.
20:42
Cheryl (2): We're going to invite them in here in our podcasting studio and just talk and listen to them.
20:47
Cheryl (2): What is their reality, where they struggle, what are their questions?
20:51
Cheryl (2): Just like we were sitting at one of our living rooms and we're just chatting with them.
20:55
Cheryl (2): So I'm excited to doing it from this end.
20:59
Cheryl (2): What is it like?
21:00
Cheryl (2): So, we'll just hear from the moms.
21:03
Ellen: Until next time moms remember, hang in there, keep loving, keep persevering because it's worth it.
21:10
Cheryl: Yes, it is.