Latest / The Alex Marlow Show / 'What Is a Woman' Director Is BACK with New Documentary 'Paging Hezbollah'

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'What Is a Woman' Director Is BACK with New Documentary 'Paging Hezbollah' · The Alex Marlow Show

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: I'm really happy to talk to Justin Folk, who's been
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: one of the most successful filmmakers, documentary filmmakers in particular,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: in recent years in not just conservative America, but really
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: in America in general. He's been very effective and very
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: popular in his entertainment that's also educational that he creates.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: And his latest movie is called Paging Hezbollah.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: And I learned a ton in this.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: And it is the true story of one of my
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: favorite stories of recent years, which is the Beeper attack
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: from Israel on Hezbollah. And Justin, let's just start with
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: this premise and we'll go, we'll jump around the timeline here.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: We don't need to keep a strict timeline, but this
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: is one of my favorite war stories ever.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: And I felt like it came one from the news
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: way too fast.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: And then Brad Parscale, who's the strategist for Salem reached
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: out and said, we're doing this documentary.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: He's an executive producer on it.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: And I thought, of course, of course, someone needed to
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: do this because how did this come and go from
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: the news as fast as it was considering how sensational
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: of an attack it was?
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: This is just the world we're living in nowadays. Alex,
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: I think things just come and go. Depending on their significance,
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: maybe they stay five minutes longer in the news. But
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: I agree with you. When I saw the news notification
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: about this story, it blew me away. I couldn't, not literally,
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: of course, but I was shocked by it.
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: It was incredible.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: It's an incredible military spy story. And it really goes
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: down in history as one of the most incredible spy
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: operations and military operations.
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: Turnarounds in history.
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: And we actually have General David Petraeus saying as much
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: in the film, talking about this is the greatest supply
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: chain intelligence operation in history.
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: So I don't know.
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: I think we are distracted by many devices and many
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: different things in this crazy news cycle. But this is
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: a historic event, and we're happy to make the movie
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: about it.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: And you've got a great resume, you worked on No
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Safe Spaces with our friend Dennis Prager and Adam Carolla,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: and What is a Woman, one of the most popular
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: documentaries of all time. You directed that with starring Matt Walsh,
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Am I a Racist, his follow-up to that. So this
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: is a, usually the stuff you work on is pretty awesome.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: So how did you come up with this idea?
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: Thanks.
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know, the idea itself, I mean,
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: what we're trying to do, what we're trying to accomplish
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: with this film is to just be simply the film
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: of record of what happened. So the idea itself just
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: came from the operation. It's like somebody had to make
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: this film. And I'm just very pleased that our team,
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: our filmmaking team, was able to essentially get the access
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: that we got. I think everybody asked the question when
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: they saw this news story, how did they pull that off? Like,
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: it's the most improbable thing. And so I'm just excited
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: we get to answer that question. And in doing so,
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: we were able to interview the people at the highest
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: level of this operation, including the prime minister himself, to
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: tell the story about this operation.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the film is paging Hezbollah and is in theaters
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: October 30th. So here's the deal. I want to encourage
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: everyone in my audience to get pre-sale tickets as soon
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: as you're hearing this, as soon as this audio becomes
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: available to you.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: Go get them now.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: That sends a signal that this thing should be in
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: a billion theaters because people are going to go watch it.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: And You do want to watch it. It's incredibly skillfully made.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: It is brisk and you learn a ton. It's exciting.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: And then the buildup to the pager attack scene is
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: very well done. It's very dramatic. You get your heart
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: racing up for that. But you're learning a lot along
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: the way. And I think you're learning also a lot
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: about some of the broader implications of the success of
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: this attack. Because it really wasn't just an attack on Hezbollah.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: It's really all about Iran, isn't it, Justin? Iran, their
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: tentacles are all throughout the Middle East. causing problems for Israel.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: And I think correctly, the movie lays out that if
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: they're successful, we're next year in the United States.
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: That's right.
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: Ultimately, this is a fight for Western civilization. We have
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: this radical regime in Iran that's trying to spread their
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: caliphate around the world. And their radical ideology, you.
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: Know, it doesn't stop. It keeps going.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: So Israel is just the first target here, but the
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: West is the next. In fact, we make a point
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: in the movie, and I think you're right, that one
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: important part of the movie is to really remind people
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: of who's involved and who the good guys are and
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: who the bad guys are. But in the case of Hezbollah,
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: they're an organization that was entirely funded by Iran, and
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: American audiences need to remember that they got their start
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: by killing Americans. That's basically how Hezbollah started. That's their
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: origin story.
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: And so.
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: To tell the story of the pager operation, you got
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: to go back and you got to understand the players involved.
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: You got to understand who the villains are. And you
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: have to understand how much Iran has their hand and
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: what's going on over there. Hezbollah is the long arm
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: of Iran in Lebanon. And Hezbollah is a very dangerous
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: or was a very dangerous organization that was international. I mean,
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: they're involved in all kinds of things, crime and drugs
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: and everything around the world. But they're also one of
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: the most powerful military operations in the region until the
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: Pager operation and the days that followed. And so it's
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: important for Americans to really understand all of this in context,
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: to really understand the significance of the Pager operation and
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: what a turnaround it was.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Again, I'm just so happy you did this, because this
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: is one of the stories, it's just ridiculously impressive. Just objectively,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: even if you hated Israel, you'd have to admit this
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: thing is very impressive. When you learn about the mechanics
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: of the operation, that they have to, Mossad has to
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: infiltrate all sorts of different areas within Hezbollah to be
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: able to deploy these things. They are able to get
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: salespeople who don't even know what they're selling, which is
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: an amazing story as well.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: I don't want to give away all the details.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: But what were the key details for you that you
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: thought maybe you could share the audience things that you
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: learn that you thought, wow, that's unbelievable how they pulled
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: this off?
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you touched on them. And we go through it
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: in the movie.
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: But what you learn is that not only is a
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: is a technical technological operation, the fact that they had
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: to try to engineer a pager that could have explosive
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: in it, and then be able to trigger it at
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: a designated time, that's impressive by itself. But even more
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: impressive is the fact that this was a marketing operation.
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: They had to get these into the hands of Hezbollah.
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: And so in order to do that, they had to
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: fire up this incredible marketing operation. They used this company
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: out of Taiwan that was already selling pagers and devices
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: to Hezbollah. They basically were able to hire the sales manager.
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: And of course, she unwittingly didn't know that Mossad was
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: behind this. And so they had to make Hezbollah want
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: these pagers, these kind of bigger... fatter pagers and they
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: gave it an excuse. They called it the rugged pager.
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: It was more of a fighter pager. And it became
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: a status symbol within Hezbollah to have one of these pagers.
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: And so when you learn the details of the marketing
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: operation and what it took to get these pagers into
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: Hezbollah's hands, It's an unbelievable story.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: It's so good.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Arguably, my favorite part was learning the marketing strategy to
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: get these guys to buy it and keep.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: It on them.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: There's a ticking clock element that I'll tease to the
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: audience where it becomes essential that they got to get
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: the operation done before because they're on the verge of
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: getting found out and they're able to pull it off.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: And then even I'll also, I won't give the.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Why on this, but you get into why the attacks
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: were specifically designed to maim and not kill, which I
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: also thought was pretty brilliant. And it's just a total
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: classic story and one that definitely deserved its own film.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: And the film is called Paging Hezbollah. Justin Folk, the director,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: is on with me now. And everyone should be pre-ordering tickets.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: It comes out on the 30th in theaters. and you
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: guys should all check it out. It is a very,
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: very important piece of filmmaking, and I think a piece
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: of history.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: And you do get the best names in the game.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: Netanyahu's featured Petraeus, Michael Oren, who I've interviewed on the
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: show as well. You get even one of the top
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: guys from Mossad, who they don't give a lot of interviews,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: and that's on purpose.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: So that's a pretty good get. Tell us what that
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: was like.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Sitting down with the people who were really in charge
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: of the most power for power, the most sophisticated intelligence
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: operation in the world.
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: Well, you're right.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: Mossad isn't in the business of making movies. So that
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: was our first challenge is how could we get them
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: to tell their story? And in the past, they would
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: not comment on any of their operations.
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: But I think they realized that we're in a new era.
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: You know, listen, Israel has been very, very good at
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: fighting kinetic wars since the founding of their country because
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: they had to. It's essential for their survival to be
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: able to defend themselves. And so they've They've been very
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: good at just fighting their enemies. But the thing that
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: they're not good at is the PR game, the public
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: relations game. And we can see how the media has
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: been very, very, very tough on them. And they have
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: not done well when it comes to telling their story.
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: And so our approach was just to tell them, hey, guys,
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: this is one of the most incredible spy operations in history.
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: You guys need to tell this story because if you
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: don't tell it, somebody else will. And they probably won't
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: tell it well. So we were able to kind of
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: relationally kind of win their trust as being the team
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: that could tell their story for them.
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: And they opened up.
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: It took several meetings, and they had to really, you know,
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: realize that we were a competent enough team to do so.
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: But I was really proud of the fact that we
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: were able to get the inside story from the top guy.
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: David Barnea is the one that ran the massage.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Right. And the Barnea interviews as well as the Nyong'o interviews,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: I thought it was very important for... people who are
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: even pretty sharp observers of Middle Eastern relations because you
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: see some of the holes where even if you don't
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: necessarily agree with all of it, and I, of course,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: as a pro-Israel guy, found myself agreeing with just about everything,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: but even if you find yourself not agreeing, they really
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: give you the perspective of how Hamas and Hezbollah are
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: connected and how it's all basically traced back to Iran
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: and how they really did see the October 7th attack
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: not just as a Hamas attack, but this is the
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: entire region of people trying to create a ring of
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: fire around Israel to destroy Israel. And I think that
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: fills in a lot of the gaps on why post-October 7th,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: you saw Israel really escalate attacks on Hezbollah and all that.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: That's a very valid perspective that has not really been
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: shared in a mainstream way, I don't think, even though
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: we're three years since the attack.
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: Well, this is what I mean.
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: I think it's been tough for them to tell their
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: story for a number of reasons. But one thing I'm
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: proud about is like when you watch the film, when
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: you watch Paging Hezbollah, you really do get the human
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: side of this. It kind of makes you kind of
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: question yourself, what would I do in this situation? I
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: will say that the interviews with even for the prime minister,
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: this is Benjamin Netanyahu like you've never seen him before.
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: You know, in the media, this is a very different Netanyahu.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: He's just basically telling you the story. The incredible thing
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: about making this, Alex, is they never pressured us in
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: any way about how to tell the story. Really? Wow.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: That's amazing.
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: They never weighed in on any of that. They just said, Hey,
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: we're going to tell you what happened. And you guys
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: are the filmmakers.
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: We are not.
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: And, um, and that's the incredible thing here is there
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: was no, they never, they never questioned anything that we
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: were doing in terms of, um, you know, how we
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: were going to tell the story. They just told us
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: the facts. And so when you watch the movie, it
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: really is the film of record of what happened.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: I think so.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: And it's necessary. It's overdue even, but better late than never.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: I know these things are really hard and time-consuming to
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: put together. Credit to Justin Folk for doing it, as
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: well as your team. And a couple other items that
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: are sort of film-related that I'm just curious about the shoot,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: because it seems like it would be a stressful thing
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: to shoot.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: Do you use recreations in it?
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: You've also got to get some of this footage, some
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: of the October 7th footage is just It's heartbreaking.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: You got to edit that all in an effective way.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, it seems like a difficult, I'm guessing some
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: of the Matt Walsh documentaries would have been more fun.
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: That's, that's probably the best way to put it, Alex.
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: I think you nailed it. There was a, there was
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: a tremendous burden.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: I think of, you know, when we made this movie,
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: I felt it like you're telling the story of a
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: people that is going through historic times and very difficult,
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: hard times. We're interviewing people that saw horrors that you
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: cannot imagine. And they're opening up to us and telling
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: the story. And so there's a burden that comes with that.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: You have to get it right. You can't have somebody
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: tell you the story about how their family member was
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: murdered and treat that lightly. You have to do it right.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: And so We're telling the story of a whole country,
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: the resilience of a whole country here. And yeah, it
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: comes with a bit of a burden. And it's not
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: the same as some of the fun things that we
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: did with Matt Walsh, where we would get people in
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: the room and have Matt work his magic. And I
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: would sit behind the camera and basically try to keep
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: from laughing. This was a very different process when it
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: came to filmmaking, for sure.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: There's a, there's one thing I think we must be
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: thinking about the same section where you footage of a
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: family of a hero father who killed a bunch of
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: a boss during a attack on a kibbutz. And there
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: you got the whole family sitting down and talking about their,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: what they lost and what it means to them. And
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: it just, and how they barely survived themselves. And it's just, it's, it's,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: it's heart rendering.
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: It really is. Especially the young girls.
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: We had two daughters who basically told the story about
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: how they lost their dad. The mother was probably one
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: of the strongest people I've ever met in my life,
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: the way she was holding it together and basically moving
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: her family forward in the aftermath of this horrific thing.
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: But their dad was a hero, and I really commend
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: them for having the strength to tell us the story,
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: to sit down and talk through it.
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: And I'll be honest, I was humbled.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: Just to sit there and try to ask them what
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: this was like is a very humbling experience. And it's
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: so tragic. It's so horrific. And I don't know, maybe hopefully,
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: I would hope that it's therapeutic in some ways. I
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: know that they want their story to be told because
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: they want the world to know what happened. And in
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: the process of the world knowing what happened, you really
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: do understand, okay, who shares our values over there in
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: the Middle East? Who can you relate to? And when
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: you see these families, your heart breaks for them and
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: you understand what they've been through. And I think it
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: really is powerful.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: It is powerful.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: And again, there's a lot of balance here. You guys
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: are hearing it from just my line of questioning. You
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: get interviews with really sophisticated thinkers on a global level.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: You get the family. You get real footage.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: You get some dramatization as well, I think illustrates some
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: important points. So there really is a ton of, there's
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: a lot in it.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: It's very tight.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: I think it's just under 90 minutes, which I highly recommend.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Who's the target audience, do you think, here? I know
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: it's always everyone, but who do you think is the
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: most important group? I was thinking about this to see this.
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: Well, that's a great question, Alex. Obviously, we do aim
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: for everybody. This is made for an American audience. This
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: is an American movie made by Americans. I'm not even Jewish.
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: I'm Christian. Uh, but I think this is such an
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: important story.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: Um, I think one of the most important audiences is,
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: is people, people like me, a Christian audience that are
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: people that are sort of, uh, questioning what's going on
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: over there. This really, we really aim to make a
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: movie to remind people who our friends are and, and
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: who are not our friends over there.
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: And I think that's very important.
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: Um, and so, yeah, there's this, a lot of bad
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: information and lies and things that swirl around the nation
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: of Israel by, other podcast hosts.
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: I won't name them.
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: Um, but, uh, I think it's, it's for the, you know,
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: people that are wondering, okay, what is going on over there?
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: It really does, uh, show you how Israel has handled
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: these operations. And you really can kind of relate to
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: these tough decisions that they had, they've had to make
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: over the course of the last two years, simply to
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: survive and protect their people. And so in terms of audience, listen,
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: I mean, anybody that's, Um, I think there's people that
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: know a lot about that area and it's, it's going
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: to be for them because it's just, it's, it's deep.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: It has a lot of inside information, but also people
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: that know very little about the situation over there. I
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: think this movie is for them too, because it gives
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: them a really good basis for what's happening. And again,
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: who our friends are, and who our enemies are over there.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: I agree.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: I think it's a good entree to someone who is
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: not familiar with the, you do provide a lot of,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: you hold people's hand at the beginning, walking through some
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: of the background, which I think is good. But even
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: for me, I've been thinking critically about this stuff for
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: 20 years, and I certainly learned a few things as well.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: And again, it's tight, it's entertaining, and you do see
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: the real authority. And it's pro-Israel, but I don't have
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: a problem with that, because it's the, Israel's getting beat
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: up all the time over nothing. I mean, I spent
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: my whole live show today, the day we're recording, going
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: through example after example of all of these criticisms of
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: israel that are getting mainstream attention simply because of october
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: the 7th if they had been victimized by this massive
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: terror attack we wouldn't be having any of these discussions
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: at all and then you got your mainstream normative democrat
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: politicians who are out there now being overwhelmingly critical of
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: israel and we know it came from this terror attack
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: and it's so crazy to me.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: It is crazy um one thing that we really want
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: to make sure when you, when you learn about the
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: details of the operation, you, you really learn about how
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: sort of, um, moral their decisions were when, when, when, uh,
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: you mentioned it earlier about how they wanted these pager
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: devices not to kill, uh, the victim, but to just
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: take them off the battlefield. Yeah. Um, these pages were
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: only given to the top, top Hezbollah fighters. These are
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: like the, the best of the best. And they didn't
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: want to make them martyrs because they know that, like,
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: because of this radical ideology that, you know, these people
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: get buried and then two weeks later there's a new
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: guy that pops up. And what they really intended to
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: do with this operation was is to have these guys injured,
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: but around, like in their, you know, medical facilities, reminding
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: the young men, hey, don't take this path, you know,
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: stop attacking Israel. And I think when you learn about
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: some of that decision-making, you really do understand, you know,
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: what Israel's.
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: Mindset is right now.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: And I think that's very helpful for us Americans who
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: are trying to kind of sort out what's going on
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: over there with all the And by the way, there's
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: so much just bad information. You mentioned this is a
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: pro-Israel movie, and I think it is only because it's
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: told by the people that did this thing and they
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: happen to be Israelis. So when they're telling their story
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: about what they did and why they did it, yeah,
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: you really get to understand, you know, the decisions they
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: made and why they made them.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that a lot of people, though, I
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: think it's okay, because if it finds a pro-Israel audience,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: the people get new, fresh arguments to make with friends
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: and family. And we're in an environment now where you
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: got Abdul El-Sayed comparing Israel and Iran, basically acting like
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: they're on the same world plane. Earlier this month, you
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: had Mamdani using October the 7th to attack Israel. I mean,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: it's just It's coming here. It is coming here. It
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: will be here before we know it. The film is
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: paging Hezbollah. It's in theaters October 30th. Justin Folk, again,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: is with me. He's the director. It's an important piece
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: of work. It really is, and I hope everyone sees it.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: Get the pre-tickets now. Bring the family. I'd say maybe
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: 13 and up. What's our target age group here? Maybe
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: 13 and up.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: There's some violence in it.
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's going to be. It's a 13. Obviously, there's war.
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: There's terrorism and things like that. Use your discretion. But
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: it's important stuff. It's historical stuff. It really is. It's
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: stuff that people need to know. And so I would
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: encourage taking your teenagers to watch the film. First and foremost,
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: it's a history lesson.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: And it might not be a history that they learn
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: in their schools, depending where they go to school, let's
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: be honest.
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: But yeah, it's for people.
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: And I will mention, just on the sales of the tickets,
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: the box office is very important for a movie like this,
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: because it really does determine the legitimacy of a movie
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: and how it gets out there. And so getting out
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: and just supporting the film by simply going to see
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: it in the theaters.
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: is a big deal. It's a very big deal for
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: the movie. It helps get it out.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: Buying your tickets early is even better because it tells
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: the theater chains, hey, there's demand, and they open up
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: more theaters for people to go see it.
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: So, it's important to go see it in the theaters.
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: By the way, it is a spy thriller, and we
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: meant to make a piece of cinema that you could
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: sit in that movie theater and be just surrounded by
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: the sounds and the impact, and it's every bit of
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: an exciting movie that you could watch in the theater. So,
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: I encourage people to get out, go see it with
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: the family, get people to come and be there and
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: buy tickets.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Totally, skillfully done, and a big credit to you. I
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: want to talk a little bit over the remaining time
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: we have, Justin, with just the conservative filmmaking process. So
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: I was the first employee of Breitbart News, and my
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: boss and mentor, Andrew Breitbart, he had this vision of
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: conservatives taking back the culture. And I think we've done
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: incredibly well in the media front. I think we've pretty
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: much neutralized the establishment media, and there's all these great
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: new conservative media outlets that have popped up. And I
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: think we've done a worse job in the other two fields,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: which is entertainment and academia. We'll skip over academia for now,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: but I will say, I do think we've neutralized the
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: education system to a degree, but we haven't stood up
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: enough of our own alternatives as of yet. But the
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: entertainment space, I think we need to do a better job.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: And you're a notable exception to this because you've made
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: commercially successful art that is accessible to wide audiences. Appraise
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: my thought that we're not doing well enough as a movement.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: I don't even know your politics exactly.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: I would imagine you're not on the left, though, based
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: off of your body of work. But I feel like
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: we need to do better. And evaluate that, and then
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: you know what my follow-up's going to be. How do
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: we do better? I....
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: Agree mostly with that assessment. I think we, we absolutely
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: need to do better. Uh, I do think we are
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: doing better than, than we were a little while ago.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: I think, um, for, for a while there, our side
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: would just, um, well, I can diagnose the problem is this, uh, we,
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: we had a message to get out. We have all
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: the right ideas, but it's just a matter of like
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: getting those ideas out to people. But we were putting
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: the message first and, and entertainment, uh, uh, second, uh,
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: and the story second. And the left has always been
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: great at telling stories and they would always hide their messages. They're, uh,
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: the thing that they, the takeaway within a story, a
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: good story. And we all know that stories are what
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: persuade people. It's why Jesus told parables. Um, and so
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: I think that the thing that we need to get
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: better at is not lead with the message. You have
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: to tell a great story. You have to entertain first,
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: and then people are open up to the ideas. And
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: for whatever reason, conservatives through the years, they want to
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: kick the door in with the message itself. They want
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: to say, hey, here's the facts.
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: Get on board.
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: And people are like, no, they're not ready for that.
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: And I think there's an art to entertainment. And I
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: think we have people out there. I'm inspired by some
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: of the work being done. It's getting better. But the
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: more great storytellers we can have on our side that
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: are doing great work, it's going to help get the
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: message out on a number of different issues.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: So what do you see as the barriers to building
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: up more of a stable of conservative creators who are
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: creating stuff? Because I completely agree with your point that
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: we need to lead with the entertainment and then incorporate
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: the politics at a subtle level or even not at all.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it's as much as you make a great movie
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: and then you say, I support the troops when you're
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: on the press tour.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Like even that is.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: is enact the politics and stay in age. But this
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: is a thing that we're not getting. And Andrew identified
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: this 20 years ago. He would say to me that
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: it's the, we would make, if we got an infinite budget,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: we would just immediately make a movie about the Federalist Papers.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: And it's like, he likes the Federalist Papers, but it's like,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: we'd spend $ 100 million making a Federalist Papers movie.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: We need to make a movie. We need to make things.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: That are about things where there's a general interest first,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: and then the politics gets incorporated.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: Right. Yeah, I think it just comes down to what
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: do we value as conservatives. On the left, they always
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: valued their artists. They always valued their storytellers. They promoted them.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: They gave them opportunity. They said, go make things, go
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: do things. And as a result, after doing that decade
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: after decade, now, of course, they had some flops along
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: the way, but every once in a while, something would
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: come out that would be incredible. And it's because they
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: have this farm team, this system of artists that are
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: ready to pop up on any issue to make movies
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: and tell stories. And I think as conservatives, we've been
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: behind on that. We value a lot of our thinkers.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: And as we should, we have some of the best ones.
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: We have the greatest thinkers. We have people like Thomas Sowell.
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: But who's going to take Thomas Sowell's message... And boil
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: it down into an entertaining movie for people to digest.
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: That's what we need. And so I think this is changing.
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: I think the conservative movement is starting to realize, hey,
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: we need to value and promote our storytellers. We need
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: to put money behind things. We need to give the
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: resources so this stuff can get made. For a while,
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: an investor would come along and invest in one movie
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: and it wouldn't do well.
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: And they're like, I'm out. I'm out. Well, that's not
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: how this works. You have to play the long game
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: when it comes to culture. As your mentor and to
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: a certain degree, mine too, Andrew Breitbart. I mean, Breitbart
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: kind of showed the way he kind of created the template.
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: He showed how we fight and how we fight isn't
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: all that much different than how they've been fighting us
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: for years.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: So true.
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: And so this is our opportunity and this really comes
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: down to what do we value? How can we push
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: great artists out there?
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: And that's where you look at what was successful, the
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: Hollywood studio system, they'd invest in people and it wasn't just,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: you only get one shot. And if it doesn't go
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: perfect and doesn't come in under budget, then, then you're out.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: And then you're, you know, panhandling on sub stack or whatever.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: It wasn't like that.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: It's, Okay. So this is a fun one.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: I always ask people who have created a cultural phenomenon,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: which you did with Matt Walsh with What is a Woman?
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Did you have a moment.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: Where you knew this thing is going to be absolutely gigantic?
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: Because I always like this.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: During the process where you realize, oh, this is a
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: real thing here. This is going to totally break through
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: and it's going to be a staple. Did you know,
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: when did that moment hit that you were able to
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: accomplish that?
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: Well, you never know if it's going to be a
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: big success. But there are moments in every film when
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: you're making one, when you shoot a scene and you
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: realize we have ourselves a movie here. And so you
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: don't ultimately, you never know if the movie is going
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: to be accepted or celebrated. And, you know, you go
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: into a dark room for months at a time and
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: you come out the other side and you hope people
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: even watch it. But there is in the process, there's
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: always a scene that you walk away from. And you're like, wow,
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: I think we have something here. There was a couple
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: of those moments in What is a Woman, a couple
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: of the interviews. I think when the congressman walked out
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: on us was one of those moments where Matt just
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: simply asked him a couple of questions. And also when
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: we interviewed the professor at the University of Tennessee who
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: didn't want to, Matt asked him about truth and the
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: guy basically had a conniption fit. And I think it's
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: those moments that we realized, okay, we have something here.
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: When it came to the movie, Am I a Racist?
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: And Matt interviews Robin DiAngelo, who is the author of
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: White Fragility. And somehow Matt convinces her to pay reparations
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: to our producer, Ben, Benyam Capel. That was the moment
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: that I think we all realized we got ourselves a
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: movie here.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: Sensational.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so fun. It's so good. And it's such
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: a grind to get to that point. All that stuff
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: is based off of It takes just months and years
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: of thought and work to create those opportunities. So last one,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: you know there's some people in the audience who are
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: going to be younger and who want to do this
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: sort of thing. They want to play culture wars, but
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: also by creating something that is going to entertain people
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: and people will enjoy.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: Where do they start? What's your recommendation?
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: Get started. My, my, where they start is they have
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: to just get started. There's a lot of, there's a
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: paralysis that artists have and they think that their first
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: thing has to be perfect. They think that like they, they,
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: they just agonize over what it is they're creating. Well,
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: they just need to go out and create. Um, the
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: way that I got to where I am is I
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: had to just make things. I had to do it
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: for a living. I had to earn a living. So
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: I had to just make things and do things and make,
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: make things. And this is a, it's a craftsman job. Uh,
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: People may have individual talent that they start with, but ultimately,
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: you have to develop that craft over time. The only
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: way to do that is to have reps. For young people,
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: I just say, go make things. Go start making things.
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: If you want to be a filmmaker, go make a film.
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: If you want to have a podcast, go start a podcast.
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: You just have to go through the ups and downs
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: of making something to get better and better. Then one day, maybe,
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: There comes a time when you do the one thing
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: that is like, okay, I'm officially, you know, this. I'm
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: officially a podcast, a filmmaker i'm officially a director a
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: producer a writer um but you just got to get started.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Beautiful just invoke the movie again is paging hezbollah in
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: theaters october 30th go pre-order now do you know your
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: next project yet have you decided are you on.
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: It yet I can't speak to it just yet, but
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: I think people will be excited about it when we
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: announce it. Good, good.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: I hope so.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: Well, credit to your accomplishments so far. This movie's fantastic.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Everyone should go check it out right away. And thanks
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: again for joining me on The Marlowe Show today.
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: Thank you, Alex. It's a privilege and a pleasure.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: Thank you, sir.