Latest / Popcorn and Pals / Ep 17 - The Graduate (1967)

Transcript

Ep 17 - The Graduate (1967) · Popcorn and Pals

• justin: Welcome back to Popcorn and Pals, the podcast where we talk about all sorts of movies good and bad, and we give you our completely unqualified takes on them. He's Zach, I'm Justin, and today we're talking about the 1967 classic that will encourage you to not have an affair with an older married woman. It's the graduate. How are we doing, Zachary? Zach: Good, okay. So like first question, what's your opinion? Mills, good or bad? justin: Zack's coming out of the gate swinging tonight. Yeah. I think Zach: No. I mean, you know, now that we're now that I'm married to Emilf it's not as big a deal, right? But thanks. justin: Yeah, there you go. Make sure Carla hears that part. Yeah, I feel like high school me would have a much different opinion of this movie out loud than Zach: Dude, you took the words right out of my mouth. I'm like, this would be a really interesting movie to watch at like two different points in your life. 'Cause I feel like my take on it now is completely different than what I would have been if I had seen this at like nineteen years old or twenty years old. Like and I can relate to it, right? 'Cause I was I remember what it was like to be back then, but you know. justin: Yeah, I agree. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's definitely I feel like it's it is a young man's dream, this movie. Yeah, I feel like my my p my stance on this movie would be wildly different twenty years ago versus now. Twenty years ago, that's kinda weird to think. We would have been 16 at that point, but anywho, how are things? That's even scarier. Zach: I don't know about that. Yeah, no. Yeah, the movie would have only been thirty years old. I know, right? I don't know. I think it's forty years old. Forty years. But no, this movie was really interesting. Like one thing I kept coming back to, cause I it was I found myself more interested in the research of this movie in a lot of ways than I've been in other movies that we've watched. And really cause it starts this like this the what they call like the Hollywood like new era. And justin: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Zach: You know, I think mostly we associate that with like, you know, the Steven Spielbergs, Martin Scorsese's and like, you know, Star Wars's, right, as they're like coming out of this like nineteen seventies, like kind of explosion in quote unquote creativity. And like I've always heard about like how like the seventies were like this transformative time in movies and then like the people coming up through the nineties like really, you know, the Quentin Tarantino's like really based their justin: No. Zach: like whole creativity off of what these guys did in the 70s. And this movie is like really one of the first ones that's like a attributed to this like new wave Hollywood or New Era Hollywood or whatever they call it. New Hollywood. And I've always like, with the exception of like probably like Steven Spielberg and Star Wars, like for the most part have hated this movie time period. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Hm. Zach: I've always justin: Hm. Zach: thought I'm like these movies are so dark, they're depressing, there's nothing fun about them. Like, you know, like Scorsese back then, Taxi Driver, like just not a good time, right? Like, you know, a and I think it's just interesting, like kind of coming back at as like an older person who's maybe a little more jaded, maybe a little more has a little bit more I don't know, season under my belt coming back to this time period. justin: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Zach: And experiencing like what that new Hollywood was for the first time as like an adult. It was it was interesting. It was an interesting experiment for me. justin: Mm-hmm. So have you had you seen this before, or was this your first time seeing it? Zach: First time. Yep. I'm a I'm a just like Benjamin I was a virgin to this movie. Just like Ben. That was my first time. Yep. How about you? justin: Just like just like just like Ben. This was your first time as well. Yeah. This was my no, this is my first time seeing it too. I had never I hadn't even heard of this movie until you Well f okay, funny enough, you're talking about the research into it. Same thing, I feel the same way. I really enjoyed researching and looking up in the, you know, the backstory behind it. I didn't realize that there have been so many Zach: Yeah, yeah. justin: tributes and other TV shows and movies calling back to this movie. Zach: yeah, the parody of this movie is like next level. It's still being parried to this day. justin: Yeah. Like but I had never even heard of it before. Didn't even know what it was. but like I the the whole Wayne's World wedding scene, I I watched Wayne's World a ton of times when I was a kid, and I didn't know that that was a riff. When yeah, the whole wedding scene watching the graduate, I was like, my god, I didn't know that that was a riff on this. so it was really yeah, it was pretty interesting to see a lot of these callbacks. Zach: Ha ha ha. Yeah. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. No, there's a lot of like iconic moments from this movie that like you've I've like seen like in still shots or like being parodied. And like I kind of forgot that they were like part of this movie. And so like, you know, the the famous scene of like him being seduced and like that camera angle like through her leg, not to get like riot into this movie or anything, but like like that's so many that's just parodied so much. And I had no idea it was like basically the first scene of the movie. And like it goes this whole movie like justin: Mm-hmm. Zach: I I honestly had no idea what that what was gonna happen for a lot of this movie. And then something would happen. I'm like, I've seen that in pop culture. I've seen that in pop culture. It's like it always kept like coming back, you know. It's very interesting. But before we get too much into it, we don't have to get into the movie right now. Let's let's let's check. What's going on? I was on vacation, we had 4th of July, America 250, you know. justin: Hm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Not a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like we didn't really do anything. Nothing ex literally nothing exciting. Zach: Well you know? America only turns two fifty one time, you know you might as well just do nothing. justin: I know. Well when you have a toddler and I don't know. I I feel like our daughter is still like we didn't want to keep her up super late to try to do fireworks and Zach: no, you can't do that. Summer like doesn't get dark 'til like nine o'clock. It's like you can't. Yeah. I haven't seen fireworks in five years. justin: No yeah, exactly. So Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So I don't know. We did we didn't go anywhere. We stayed here and we did not do really anything. We Fri we were so excited because Friday we had off. I had off 'cause Fourth of July observed. We were so excited to sit at the house and like just tackle house chores a and like have time to do that. That's how boring we are these days. But you guys went on vacation. Zach: Mm-hmm. Yeah, we went to Lake Tahoe. We were talking about before we got on here how crazy it was. I'm sure a lot of people have seen like the pictures of like all the teenagers. It just makes me feel like how old I am. I'm at the beach with like my five year old and three year old and my grand and like my parents, right? The grandparents. And we're and like all of a sudden like all these little teenagers walk out and like I don't know what it is with Gen Z and like thong bikinis, but they're like everywhere. And I'm like looking at my daughter being like, Don't you do that Okay. I'm gonna give moo you're gonna wear a moo moo to the beach and then and so I was just feeling real old. And the second day we went to a different beach by where we were staying and it's right next to this restaurant called Garwoods, which is kind of it's like on the water. It's like a I don't know, it's like an kind of islandy cabiny, watery kind of justin: Mm. Zach: Tahoe, because Tahoe's got this like very 1960s Rat Pack vibe to it. And the the But so we're at this beach, it's much smaller. It was like everyone was like 30 plus. I was like, I feel like I'm at home, you know? This is much more my speed. Plus it didn't hurt that Garwoods has like this mixed drink called a wet woody. So it's like well, it's it justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's Gross. Zach: It's it's definitely a little risque. But it's play on words for like the woody boats back in the day. Like the wood boats and but then it's like you know, also like, you know a little a little perverted. but you could buy a gallon of So just sitting there on the beach drinking wet woodies, you know? justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Que verdad. Yeah. I think that's what I'm gonna call you the rest of this episode is wet woody. Zach: yeah. That's that's not good. I don't want the I don't like that. I don't like that at all. justin: Mm. Mm. Well, I'm glad you guys had fun. I'm sure that's gotta be I don't know. I feel like we have I have not entered any situations like that being like the old person out in social settings where like teenagers and I but I I'm I don't know. I'm I don't know if I'm looking forward to that. I g I f I feel like it yeah. Zach: Mm-hmm. Nah. I'll take you next time we go to Tahoe. You're gonna come with us, okay? And then we'll you'll feel real real justin: We'll we'll sit and watch all the young kids just pass us by while we Zach: I know. Well it's like your s Tahoe's like sandwiched right between like San Francisco and Reno, Nevada. So you have like all the like University of Nevada Reno people, all the Cal Berkeley people, like you have all like kind of coming up to the lake. It's just a very just a very different vibe than the South. Yeah. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Com comp yeah, compared to Middle Tennessee. I feel like yeah, our our old doo doo lakes around here are just attracting the wrong people. Zach: Yeah, I know. My son, he's like, 'cause when we got there, I don't know, like, Tahoe's like crystal clear. You can see like thirty feet deep in it. And my son is like, Our lakes are so dirty And I'm like, Yeah, they are justin: Mm-hmm. They are dirty. They're really gross. I'm kinda scared to I don't I don't know. Lakes always creep me out 'cause it's like you don't know what's in there. And that water doesn't it's like stagnant, it doesn't go anywhere. But I don't Zach: Yeah. yeah, I did a triathlon like a year ago and I had to do open water swimming for the first time. Dude, flipping hated it. I hated every minute of it. I would train, I'd come back so angry, I like, I hated that. I was like claustrophobic, it was gross, I'm like, hate it. justin: Re direct Yeah. I imagine getting that lake water in your mouth. Mm. Zach: yeah, just no good. I touch something, I c I can't see, I don't know what it is. It's like either a fish or like a leaf or or a a buoy or something, right? Or worst case like a snake a water snake or something, like ugh. justin: Dead body Yeah. Or f a f it could be a foot. I mean, you never know. Zach: Yeah. Jimmy Hoffa, you never know, you know. justin: Yeah, exactly. Well yeah, I'll take you up on it. We'll go to Tahoe at some point. I've never been. I've always wanted to go, but never been. Zach: There you go. Yeah, so it's where my family's from, right? So we always go back there and so it's like worst places to go visit your grandparents, I guess, you know? justin: Hm, sure, yeah. Well good. Glad you guys had a fun vacation. Zach: Yeah, yeah, it was good. Alright, you wanna get into the movie? Alright, I gotta my synopsis is short and sweet for this one. 'Cause it's just, you know. The movie's not complicated. justin: Yeah, let's do it. Ooh, okay. Let's yeah. I can't wait to hear what you got. Zach: A young loser sleeps with his father's business partner's wife, then stalks their daughter. justin: Yeah, it's perfect. Perfect. Couldn't have put it more succinctly myself. I like the loser part in there. That was a really that's a nice touch. Zach: like first I I wrote down like a young man and I'm like this guy's not a man. no that's the funniest part. Again like with the research in this movie it's like the ages of everyone in it versus what they're playing is so it's like he's thirty. She's like only thirty six. She's like our age. She feels way older than I mean they dress her up and they make her, you know, but but like and then they may have her marry married to you know the mayor justin: No. He was thirty at the when he filmed this. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Zach: in Jaws. And and he's like way older than her, right, to just make her even feel that much older, you know. And they make her daughter like twenty, you know, but she would have had her daughter at like twelve or something. But justin: Yeah. Yeah. The ages were all over the place. Th this movie was I don't know, it was really interesting. Like I'm still I feel like after after finishing it, I didn't know where I landed on it. So kinda like you were talking about earlier, I feel like there are a lot of things that you can relate to. That d let me back up. The first half of this movie, I actually really, really, really enjoyed it. Zach: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. justin: Because not that not that tearing apart a family through an affair is relatable for a lot of c you know Zach: Yeah. Here let's let's pause here before we get too into it. Like just for people who haven't seen the movie, let's do a quick real synopsis and let's get just talk podcast structure real quick. Cause I wanna get into this movie for sure, but I feel like to your point, I it's a vi it's a very famous movie, but it's very famous, I think, for like people who are ten to fifteen to twenty then plus older than us, right? So it's like I don't I don't know, millennials I think A and Gen Z justin: Mm. Zach: aren't you know haven't gotten into it as much. Not that we probably have a lot of Gen Z listeners, but but anyways, so yeah, podcast structure, we're gonna talk about the movie, we'll compare some notes, we have our superlatives, and then we'll rate whether we think it's a classic. from a real plot perspective, this movie follows a new graduate. Did you catch where he went to school? justin: Mm. Yeah. I did not. I don't know if they ever said that. I I know he Zach: I didn't either. Cause he's in California, but he takes a plane, so I'm like, yeah, who knows who knows. Anyway, see, so he's just graduated, undergrad. And his name is Ben or Benjamin Brad Braddock. And Ben is played by Dustin Hoffman, and he's kinda melancholy, like he's kinda lost. He doesn't really know what the next step of his life is gonna be, because he wants it to have meaning. And I think one of the themes of this movie is like justin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Zach: There's no like the materialism of the generation before is kind of like weighing him down. Like he doesn't wanna be in that like materialistic corporate world, right? He wants wants to find meaning. And so his way of I guess like dealing with that is just to become melancholy and kind of a big bummer, you know? And like kind of just doesn't know what to do, so he doesn't do anything. And almost immediately when he gets back justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Fair. Zach: He gets hit on by his dad's business partner's wife, Mrs. Robinson. And at first he's kind of like shocked and put off by it, but then I think, like, through his melancholy, just trying to grab onto anything, he gravitates towards her, and they end up having an affair. and then the affair goes back and forth, and you kind of learn a little bit about justin: Mm-hmm. Zach: her backstory and how she's kind of in a loveless marriage and got basically got married because she got pregnant. He ends up dating or going on a date with her daughter that's set up by the husband who's unaware of the affair, ms Mr. Robinson, and his family, right? And through the course of that date, even though he tries to at first to like, I'm gonna make this date terrible so she doesn't like me, because Mrs. Robinson does not want me to date her daughter, obviously. he ends up falling in love with her and then obviously justin: Mm-hmm. Zach: He's also he had just had an affair with Mrs. Robinson, the mother. and so, like, problems ensue from that. and then he spends the second half of the movie stalking Elaine until she he negs him into liking her again. And then they finally the movie culminates at a wedding. So in order to get Dustin Hoffman's Ben. justin: Yeah. Zach: off of Elaine, Mrs. Robinson and Mr. Robinson basically like force her to get married to another man. And Ben comes, breaks up the wedding, and then they leave together on a bus, and the that last like moment of the film where they get on the bus and they're happy, and then as it's driving away, their faces get more serious because they get like they realize like what they've done and kind of justin: Mm. Zach: a really interesting moment in the film and that's how it ends. So that's my messy plot summary of of the graduate. justin: Yeah, yeah. There you go. Well done. Yeah, no, well done. I think you covered yeah, just there's a lot going on in this movie. So Bravo for for getting all of it. Zach: There's a lot and there's like not. It's like he has an affair, falls in love with his stocks' daughter. It's like okay. But but there is a lot going on. Alright, so let's go back to you. What were you what were you saying? Sorry. Before I rudely interrupted you. justin: Mm-hmm. no, you're good. yeah, there I feel like I really enjoyed the first half. I think it I enjoyed it because less so of the affair aspect, more so of that feeling of drifting after getting out of school. because it's a weird you're transitioning from Zach: Mm-hmm. justin: you know, being a kid going into, you know, real adult world and like what do you want to do with yourself and, you know, there's a lot of people out there that have that figured out or they have direction. But for, you know, a lot of other people stepping foot into the adult world is that's a lot. It there's just a lot going on there that you can relate to. I also thought that it was I know we've talked about this with a lot of our older movies, but just seeing how certain topics are handled back then versus today, I thought it was a very interesting study on some pretty heavy topics that today are a big deal, but back in nineteen sixty seven seemingly weren't as big of a deal. Zach: Yeah. Mm-hmm. justin: Or it could just be, you know, the lighthearted nature of this movie. but like adultery Yeah. Zach: Yeah, 'cause it's a comedy, right? Like it's a dark it's like a dark comedy, like a kinda like one of the first dark comedies. Yeah. justin: Yeah, like adultery, rape accusations, these are really these are they're they're very, very heavy things, right? But I feel like in this movie they kind of shrug off like, yeah, that was really bad, but well. Zach: Yeah, that one's a that one's a little rough. Yeah. Uh-huh. justin: But yeah, I don't know. Like the front half you have, I feel like some really interesting core messages and themes and stuff that I thought that it was really fun to explore. And then the back half was just man, it was all over the place. It felt like it was creepy, the skate the stakes get skyrocketed. there's a fight in a church with a cross. like at the end I still Zach: Yeah, he's not holding back, you know justin: No. Zach: in that fight. justin: yeah. But there's I have a we'll get to it later on. I think I know the reason for it, but it yeah, the front half felt kind of separate from the back half. So I feel like I don't know where I landed with it. Like I really enjoyed the front part of it, but it's like after there was that cutoff of when he goes on the date, with Elaine and it was like everything that happened after that, it almost felt like a whiplash. Zach: Yeah, there's kind of a yeah, it's like a pacing issue, right? I feel like they spend so much time on developing the Mrs. Robinson relationship. And the Elaine r relationship part is pretty rushed. I agree. It's kind of it's a very interesting dynamic in the movie. I found I think a similar opinion to you. Like I I like justin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Zach: I don't know where I this movie I had to like chew on for a little while to kind of figure out where I landed. And I I think it's a there's a lot of things I really liked about it. The first half, even though it's like maybe the more depressing side of life is what's happening in the first half. It's was more interesting in a lot of ways. even though I found the dynamic of the second half also very interesting. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Zach: I just wish they had developed the Elaine relationship a little bit more to make it feel more genuine and more earned. But yeah. Yeah. justin: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. No, I agree. I think I don't know. There and there's like I said, through the research and like looking more into the novella that this movie was based upon, feel like I understand the reason why the back half feels that way, but Zach: Mm-hmm. justin: We'll talk about that later. It's but yeah, th I think pacing issues I feel like in the back half are what really stuck it to me. I was like, What the fuck is going on here? Zach: Yeah. So, like what was like I was talking about, this is like one of the first like new Hollywood movies. Are you familiar with that term, New Hollywood? Yeah. It's just like basically the 70s. Coming out of like the Hays Code six fifties, and then like the counterculture at the end of the sixties. You had this like new generation of filmmakers out of the golden era. justin: I feel like you've talked about it on here before. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Zach: of Hollywood and maybe I don't know if you can call it the Silver Era or whatever, but like where they really it's it's decidedly modern and we're still kind of like the creators of that time period. They're all a hundred years old now, but they're still doing stuff. Like we just had Scorsese movies. We just had a Spielberg movie. you know Dustin Hoffman, he's still out there making movies, right? Like it's it's a justin: Mm-hmm. Zach: It's still an active like era, right? You know? Even like I think you could consider 'cause Kramer versus Kramer is one of those movies that comes out of this. It's another Dustin Hoffman movie. That's Meryl Streep's like kind of vehicle. So like Meryl Streep is still doing Meryl Streep. We just had Devil Wears Prada too, right? Like it's like this era of nineteen seventies films and the and the creators and actors that come out of it are still, you know, sixty, fifty, sixty years later. justin: Yeah. Zach: like a part of what's happening today. So it's really interesting. I again it was like I'm not a huge fan of it because I feel like there's a lot of darkness and a lot of like sometimes the joy that I think I maybe I appreciate more in movies. Or like like darkness for darkness' sake sometimes I feel like these movies in the seventies were and it's the same thing with the nineties movies, like the justin: Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Zach: the qu early Quentin Tarantinos, the you know, early Finch Fincher movies, like there's like like, you know, whether it's just there's this darkness that I'm like and this grittiness and like, yeah, it's edgy you know. And I'm like, I don't know, I like a little more joy. I want my, you know it's it's f Yeah, yeah. So I'm not always like justin: Yeah. Yeah. That's your f that's your flavor, that's your cup of tea. Zach: People have such you know, filmmakers in like the film academy and like the people who study film have such a respect and I have respect for this era. I just I don't know. I like I don't know, I like, you know I like Bean Crosby. You know? Yeah, yeah. I d I don't I don't mind, you know, justin: Mm-hmm. Do you like a Yeah. You like a you like a happy, enjoyable time. I get it. Zach: John Hughes. Like, I don't mind a John Hughes movie. They're fun, you know. I like it. It's a good time. It's a good time, you know? justin: Hmm. Yeah. Exactly. it's the same th I feel like you remember years ago we all went and saw The Joker in theaters. And it's such a dark, not fun movie. It's a r it's a really good movie by certain accounts, but like after you after after you get out of that movie, you're not happy. You you don't really want to go watch it again. Zach: Mm-hmm. No. I I think it's okay. But okay. No. justin: Yeah, I I get ya, I hear ya. Some Zach: Yeah, no, you know, I go watch like I don't know, like a James Dean movie and I'm like, I wanna go buy a leather leather jacket, but I didn't watch The Joker and was like, I'm gonna go buy some white underwear, you know. justin: You don't want to go prance around in your underwear like him. I don't know. They they might work. Who knows? Zach: Why don't we go buy some whitey tidies afterwards, you know? Oscars. So this movie's nominated for like everything. Like the big ones. justin: but it only won it only won one, right? Zach: Yeah, director. It only won for director, but it was nominated best pitcher, director, actor, actress, supporting actress. Screenplay, adapted screenplay I should say, and cinematography. Personally, I th I mean I don't know let's see who won cinematography that year. Let's see. justin: Uh-huh. Mm. Zach: It was I but I feel like to me like I'm not to get the age not to step on age the best, but I feel like the cinematography and the editing in this movie is pretty strong. Bonnie and Clyde won. No, that's fair. Okay. justin: Yeah. Yeah, I disagree. I I had cinematography as age the best in mine as well. I thought it was really, really, really good. yeah, I'm kinda surprised that it didn't win that. I feel like there were shots in this movie that I didn't know they did in the sixties. I was really I was really impressed. Zach: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's k i it r like the the quick editing and like the transitioning between things, it was very cool. The what about the music? Do you have that later too? justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I agree. I didn't. I mean I saw that it's what I already I IS, they did the famous song Mrs. Robinson and all the things. Zach: Simon and Garfunkel? Yeah. I think every song every song that we hear lyrics in is Simon and Garfunkel in this movie. justin: Yeah, it said they did the entire soundtrack for it. which it was it was fine. Zach: they wanted Simon and Garfunkel to make music for this. So I don't know if you saw this in the research. So they wanted them to make it. So they asked him, like, give us three songs. And then for pacing and editing purposes, they used existing Simon and Garfunkel songs for for it. When they went to back to Simon and Garfunkel and were like justin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. okay. Zach: What songs do you have for us? They had one done. And they had one done and I think it's the it's the like Sage Rosemary Time that one that's in there. like I forget what the name of the song was, but they had that one done. So they kept in the Hollow Darkness Mile Friends song, justin: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zach: I just remember that from my kids love trolls and they sing it in trolls. But the so they kept that one in there and then the Mrs. Robinson song was a completely different song that Simon and Garfunkel were writing and the original lyrics were Mrs. Roosevelt. And he was like and this was like about just modern, you know, Joe DiMaggio, Mrs. Roosevelt, like just modern kinda or modern for the time thing, you know. justin: Mm. Yeah. Zach: Pop culture things. And they were like, now it's Mrs. Robinson because we need a song from you. And that's why it's so short in the movie. Like I don't think it was finished being written. So they only used the section that they had. Yeah, in it, which is interesting. And then it became like a number one hit out of this movie, probably the biggest breakout for Simon and Garfunkel, but justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Hm. It's Yeah. But yeah, I mean the I thought the music was it was good. I didn't have any complaints with it. It was I thought it was really funny in certain places. like when he is I think I think you hear the Darkness, my old friend song, like in the very b opening shot when he's flying back home. I could be wrong, but it was I remember it being early on in the movie and thinking it was really funny. Zach: Uh-huh. justin: that you have this kid who just graduated and he's going back home to live with his parents and that song is playing in the background and he's like depressed and it's just it's really funny. Zach: It's a it is really funny. I really enjoyed it too. Just like coming out of it. You're you're like he's on the airport, like going through the airport, right? And he's like on the el the escal like the moving sidewalk and he's just like he just looks like he's like fuck my life, you know, kinda thing. Yeah, he does. Alright, you wanna get into our categories? I feel like we've talked about the movie enough. justin: Yeah. He yeah. He looks he looks so depressed. Like he just the unhappiest person on the planet. Yeah, hit us with the categories. Mm mm. No. Zach: Unless you had any other notes. The only other notes I had was like on who was married to who. I'm like, this movie is like stacked with like famous spouses. Cause the Mrs. Robinson Ann Bancro Bon Bancroft, she's married to Mel Brooks. Or was married to Mel Brooks when she was alive. Which I like, that's fun. That's how H Hoff Dustin Hoffman was working on the producers for Mel Brooks when he justin: Mm. I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Zach: auditioned for this movie. and then Katherine Ross who plays Elaine, she's married to Sam Elliott from our Yeah. I was like, tombstone coming back up already. justin: I saw the I saw that part, yeah, yeah. Yeah. There's there there's good old Sam Elliott again. Yeah. Yeah, this movie was interesting. I I I don't know if I've ever seen Ben's dad, Mr. Feeney, in anything Zach: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's I was like, Wait, is that Mr. Finney? I was like, No way justin: Yeah. I've never seen him in anything outside of Boy Meets World, so that was really fun to see him as like a younger man and he still has that same like I don't know, like nasally weird voice. I love it. Mr. Feeney. But yeah, no Zach: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. I literally wrote down William Daniels, Mr. Feeney, Boys Me World. I was like exciting. justin: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, hit us with the hit us with our superlatives. Zach: Alright, superlatives, here we go. So we have we'll start out best scene, best character, worst character or the weakest link in the film. Age the best, age the worst, WTF are they talking about? And then what would be a good sequel? What would maybe happen the next day? and then lastly, hot takes in our nitpicks about the movie. And then finally we'll rate it whether we think it's classic. So let's start out with best scene. justin: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Why don't you kick it off? Zach: I think the opener where he sh where Mrs. Robinson takes him back to her house and he's she's hitting on him and he's like panicking around the house as she like you know is like just manipulating him and like kind of like weaving her web of manipulation. It's it was really fun. I had a great time. I was like I was like I literally wrote down run, but and honestly justin: Yeah. It Yeah. Zach: His reaction would be my reaction if I was in that moment at twenty years old and like my mom's friend was like hitting on me and I'm like, my god, good I no no I don't know. So scared. justin: Yeah. Mm. He does a great job of like trying to weave that line of not being disrespectful. Especially because she gaslights him so hard when he's like, I think you're trying to seduce me, Mrs. Robinson, and she's like, No, I'm not And then he's he's like, my god, I'm so sorry, please forget I said that like makes him feel bad for it. So he's trying not to be rude in all the things, but Zach: Yeah. yeah, she's like Mm-hmm. yeah, and she's like, I'm not seducing you. Would you like if I seduced you? No. I'm so scared. Please. I just want to I just got home from college, please. justin: Ha ha ha Yeah. The that whole that whole scene yeah, it was really funny. 'Cause yeah, the whole time you're like, Ugh, I don't know. Especially 'cause she's like, Well my husband'll be home later. He'll I don't know, he'll be home whenever. So the whole I was I was nervous that his h her husband was gonna walk through the door and be like, What's going on here? the whole time. It felt like there was a slight amount of tension 'cause you you don't want Ben to get in trouble. But Zach: Yeah. justin: Yeah, it's a good one. 'Cause yeah, you get you also I feel like you get a sense of like who Ben is, 'cause like yeah, he's he's lost. I don't want to say he's depressed. He just doesn't have any direction of what he wants to do with himself if Yeah. But like he also you kinda get a glimpse into he's not like this debonair, suave guy. He fumbles. He's he he's he's Zach: Yeah. Yeah, he's kind of melancholy maybe. Yeah. No Yeah, at f at first you're like, is he supposed to be like this like you know, 'cause originally when the casting for this was Robert Redford that they wanted. And like that's now that's that's a handsome dude, right? You know? No offense to Dustin Hoffman, but like Robert Rufford's like six foot, you know, chiseled jaw, like baby blue eyes, like, you know, like you know, he plays Gatsby, right? Like he's like the man. justin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Zach: And justin: Yeah. Zach: Hoffman is not that, even though he has his own charm for sure. But he's I was like, I'm like, is he supposed to be sexy? 'Cause I felt like at first like all the mothers were hitting on him, even at the party, you know. I was like, are they all like, ooh, he's so you know, and I'm like, am I missing something here? And then he like definitely does not play it smooth at all. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. No, he he's he's clumsy. He's goofy. yeah, no, I agree. That was that whole front scene with with Mrs. Robinson was really it was really good. Mm-hmm. Zach: Yeah. Yeah. And this that iconic shot like between her leg, you know, when her leg's bent up and he's like, I think you're trying to seduce me, aren't you? You know, that kind of thing. justin: Yeah. Yeah. No, it was a great yeah, that was a good scene. Big fan. I had I'm torn. I had two that I really enjoyed. One for personal reasons and one because I I just thought it was it was one of my favorites in the movie. But the scuba scene, my god. I love I love the scuba scene. Zach: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, the scuba suit. justin: Because I I feel like I have a core memory of my parents doing the exact same thing to to me, hyping me up in front of relatives to j to run out into a room of family wearing a f a football costume. But it's yeah, seeing that whole scene, because you're you're wondering like, what's his dad doing? Like, why is he hyping up Ben? Like, what's Ben gonna do? And it opens up going back to like you didn't know what was gonna happen, I did not expect him to open the door and see Ben in full screen. Scuba gear with a with a what do you call it? A a spear gun or whatever it was. Zach: Spear gun, yeah. I was like, why is he holding the spear gun like loaded? justin: Yeah. And then like back to the cinematography aspect, i then we get to see it from Ben's like first person point of view and you can't hear Yeah. Yeah. It like Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But that whole scene my god, I loved it. Yeah Zach: Yeah, his parents are like basically drowning him. They're like smothering him. It's like how he feels, you know? That's like what I think they do a really good job using water to show like him just being smothered all the time. Yeah, that's a great scene. At first I was like, what the fuck? But justin: It's really it's a bizarre scene, but I I loved it because I was like, my god. I I relate to it. I I think my actual favorite scene though was just the entire The entire scene of Ben meeting Mrs. Robinson for the first time at the hotel, everything from start to finish was so funny. From him getting there and being nervous that like the front desk guy is gonna sniff him out to like he he has Mrs. Robinson go up to the room and meet him up there and he awkwardly kisses her and he like tries to feel her up and he's just it's so awkward. But then back to the cinematography Zach: Mm-hmm. justin: They they spend the night together and then it goes into this montage, like just out of nowhere, of them progressing their affair over the course of I don't know how long, but yeah, and you see him drifting between meeting her at the hotel and him just lounging by the pool and drinking beers. He goes from this really awkward, clumsy guy to having Zach: Yes, a summer, you know. Yeah. Yeah. justin: I don't know, it's some it's like his demeanor changes and he feels more cool in an as in a way. but just that whole scene of it was so funny of him floundering in the hotel and not being so nervous to do this with Mrs. Robinson and then the transition into their affair and just him yeah, sleeping with this older woman and getting drunk by the pool every day. Zach: Mm-hmm. justin: It was Zach: Yeah, he doesn't like progress. Like he's not like he gains confidence. They're both like become like codependent for a temporary time on this like relationship. And then they pr like it's just an escapism for the miserableness that is both of their lives at that moment. Whether or not it's real or self inflicted or you maybe like even a mental, you know, kind of barrier that the that like Ben has, right? It's like justin: Mm-hmm. Zach: It's this escapism for them, but it's so it is a great scene. I just love like the the bellhop not the bell hop, but like the attendant at the counter, the guy who's like checking him in and out, like that is the writer of the movie. Yeah. And I just love the scene when he's like, Are you with that party? And he's like, justin: Mm-hmm. I didn't know that. Zach: yeah, okay. And then they're like introducing him and they get his name wrong and they're like assuming he's someone. He's like, No, then like, wait what? Then he leaves, he's drinking and smoking cigarettes at the bar, and then she comes over, then he calls her from the payphone and he's like, I think he's on to me And he's like this guy could care less. justin: Ha ha Yeah. Yeah. He's so nervous. He's like Yeah, just that whole I don't know. Everything about that scene I thought was really, really funny. but yeah, and him just like going into that that transition into the montage was just it was just really well done. I feel like I haven't watched a whole lot of older movies, especially from the sixties, but I didn't know that they were doing edits like that back then. That that feels yeah. Zach: Mm-hmm. No. I don't think they were. I think this movie's like inventive, you know? justin: I f yeah, and and in that aspect, like yeah, this does feel like a very novel movie in in that regard, 'cause it was like they were doing stuff at such a early phase when other movies were not. But th those types of cuts feel like stuff that we see today. Zach: Mm-hmm. Yeah, if if anything, I felt in some ways it was more inventive. Like usually when they have like those kind of like swings scene excuse me, switching cuts, it's like it's very there's like a symmetry to it, right? It's like the same thing happening over again, just showing you like you know like I c I always think of the scene like in Wedding Crashers where like all the girls are falling on the bed and they're just showing how many girls they're like sleeping with over this, right? But it's like very much communicating what's happened. justin: Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah. Zach: Where this is like you d I I don't know what's gonna happen in the cut. Right? Like there's no predictability to it. It's like he gets up, you know, he'll get up from the water and try to land on his like floating d you know, his little float in the pool, and then all of a sudden he's landing on Mrs. Robinson. And then he's rolling over and then he's like in the back of his car or in the back of his bedroom looking at his fish tank. Like it's like it's really all over the place. It's like very kind of justin: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zach: as this like mystery of of the of that montage, I thought that was very interesting. And it could just be 'cause it's the first time they do it, so they didn't have like the language of montage worked out quite as much. But I thought it was great. justin: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, no. Yeah. Well said. I couldn't agree more. Zach: Mm-hmm. the only other one I had As a contender, I actually really liked like I don't know what they call it, but it's like the pillow talk scene with like him and Mrs. Robinson and he's like, We should just talk, let's talk. And she's kind of like refusing to talk, but in the little very few words that she says, and then the through her facial expressions and kind of her emotions, you get like a lot of sympathy in that moment for her character. And he's like kind of a dick halfway through it, but it's like, you know justin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Zach: But it just shows like how broken these two kind of are in that moment. And I think you learn it's that that scene for me is like when I started liking Mrs. Robinson before she goes and like makes me not like her again. But justin: Yeah. Yeah. No, I enjoyed that scene too, 'cause I I feel like you get you have Ben who he was a virgin, he'd never been with anybody before. We don't know if Ben His past relationship was like, or if he had girlfriends, whatever. But like Mrs. Robinson, it feels like she is in this purely as an escape to have fun. She does not want to have a relationship with Ben, right? But Ben kind of starts catching feelings a little bit, right? He might not be, but it it progresses to the point where he wants to know. Zach: Yeah. Mm-hmm. I definitely yeah. justin: He wants to know more about Mrs. Robinson. He doesn't want it to just be a physical thing. He wants to have some type of relationship to where they actually talk and they get to know each other more. But yeah, it was interesting to see how, like, young Ben Young Ben was just different than Mrs. Robinson, who didn't want anything but just a physical connection. Zach: Yeah, agreed. So I like that scene a lot too. But I think for me, my favorite is the opener. I was like, this movie's getting right into it. All right, let's go. justin: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, 'cause it I th that happens like at the end of his party, right? Or he's at his party when she Zach: Yeah, he's j it's like the credits get done and she's like, All right, drive me home and he's like, Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But I agree with you too. I do like the the first time he's getting you know, I think the most comedic moment in the film was that like first time getting her to the hotel kind of thing. So it's great. justin: Yeah. Yeah, they get going right out of the gate. It is a really good yeah, it's a really good one. Zach: Alright, so we'll split. We'll keep it. Those are the two best scenes. We're not gonna talk about the wedding scene at the end, even though it is iconic. But I I think the first half is stronger than the second half of this movie, even if the the wedding I think the wedding scene is an iconic parodied scene, so. Alright, you wanna talk about some characters? justin: Yeah. Hmm. Yeah, yeah. Agreed. Yeah, who was your best character? Who did you like the most? Zach: Alright. So I I wanna talk about Ben first. Cause I don't know where he lands on like best and worst character. Cause like you alluded to, I think like when you watch him and you experience this movie, you have different interpretations of him. Cause there's like a lot of things in this movie that I'm like, this dude is a fucking loser. justin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zach: Like but at the same time to your point, like I remember I remember what it was like graduating from college and you know not knowing what to do, right? Like you were saying, like some people have it figured out. Those people are doctors, lawyers, engineers. Like The people who don't get business degrees, right? Like we just we just did it, you know, we were in business school together. You just do it because you're like, I don't know what to do. This is good. Like you have a good career, you know, it's like it'll be fine, you know, kinda thing, right? It's like you get a business degree or you go do you know, make a mistake and get a liberal arts degree. But you know justin: Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Nice, you got that little singer in there, didn't you? Zach: No. Nah no not the not to not to not to knock on a liberal arts people, it's fine, it's alright. but like yeah, like you know, you get a business degree because you really don't know no one's like, I want to be an accountant. You know, right? You might be like, I could be an accountant, right? But no one's like, I got the I was twelve years old and I said I want to be an actuary, you know. So Yeah. But yeah, and so like y I remember feeling what like he feels. justin: Yeah, exactly. I wanna I wanna play with calculator. Yeah. Zach: And then even when he's dating, or not dating, that's not the correct term, when he's stalking Elaine. And I'm not saying like I was gonna go be a stalker, but I remember what it was like to fall in love, quote unquote, for like the first time, and you just don't know what you're doing, and you're almost a little too obsessive. Like, and we all go through that when you're just first dating, you have to like be broken up with, you have to kind of justin: Mm-hmm. Zach: make a fool of yourself because you have to learn how to not be, you know, like that this new thing that you've all of a sudden are experiencing for the first time is like it's it can happen again. It c it's not like, you know, but you when you're have hormones and you're stupid, it's you act not like maybe how Ben acts in this movie. But there's a little part of me that was like, I was a weirdo. justin: Yeah. Zach: about dating at one point too, right? Like but then you're thirty five and you're like, God this dude fucking get away from my daughter Do not go around data. He is terrible. justin: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You start to align with Mr. Robinson a little bit more when you get older. Yeah. Yeah. Zach: Yeah, you do. You do. You're like, this guy is like obsessive, he's weird, he's broken, he's mentally broken, get away from him. justin: Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that's a great yeah, that's a great breakdown of Ben because I you're exactly right. When you're young and you just don't have as much life experience. Okay, like for example, that very first hotel rendezvous with Mrs. Robinson and she's starting to get undressed and Ben's like, I don't know what you want me to do. He needs d he needs direction. He needs her to tell him what to do, right? Because he's a kid, he's never done this before, he doesn't know what he's doing. Zach: yeah. He might not even be a virgin, but maximum. He's had you know, he's slept with one person in an awkward college relationship or whatever. plus super intimidating. This is like a woman and I'm you know, so like I get justin: Mm-hmm. well. Zach: I like, I get I'd like terrified too. Yeah, terrified. justin: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It it's yeah, I think that's a great breakdown of Ben. Because I think so much of what we look at Ben, especially as the movie progresses, yeah, you kinda look at him like, dude, you're we're really weird, you're kinda creepy, you're stalking, all the things, but yeah, you're right. I think there is a lot of sympathy to be had towards Ben because he's just in a situation that he's never been in before and he doesn't know how to handle it. Zach: Yeah, it's like it's like the first time you found that, you know that movie you liked or that cartoon you liked as a kid, you were obsessed, right? Or like and then it just takes experience to kind of realize like, that obsession was like just because it was new, novel, and whatever. And now you don't go to the lengths that he went. Like that's where he gets creepy, right? He goes to an extreme. He's talking about marriage. He's talking about like all Of these, he's I've only gone on one date with her, and I slept with her mom. I wanna marry her, I'm gonna marry her. And then he's like just nagging her when he gets to Berkeley and he's like stalking her, then nagging her, then stalking her. And I'm like, okay, well, well, you've he's his character crosses a line, of course. And the older you get, the more that line becomes even more apparent. as you gain maturity and you realize, like, whoa, dude, calm down, you know. but justin: Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zach: All of that to be said, that was all my preamble for my first real nominee for best character. And that is the landlord in Berkeley. What was his name? Mr. McCleary. I was like, Mr. McCleary. He's like, you called him on a Mr. McCleary. You call him on a need. Get out of there, you suck. justin: I literally have I have Ben's landlord in Berkeley as the best character. I have this I have the same one. Yes. Yes. He he was suspicious of Ben from the jump. W he asked Ben, he's like, Why what are you doing here? And he's like, I need to know what all my boys are up to. And he's looking at him, he's suspicious the whole time. And when he hears I love this part, when he hears Elaine scream, he comes up there with an army of boys. They were they were gonna take him down because he knew Ben was creepy and he knew that Ben was a problem. Zach: Ha ha ha. justin: But yeah, I had the same dude, Ben's landlord in Berkeley as my best character. Zach: Yeah. I was like you you no like you know what's going on. You know what's going on, Mr. McCleary. Good job. justin: He did, yeah. Look at you. That's funny. He was the best character. I love it. Yeah. He's he's yeah, hands down. He's the he wins. Hmm. Zach: I feel like no one really in this movie besides you know McClary is is like they're not good people. I mean like even Elaine is like she's not a bad person. She's just kinda like she's also lost and making bad choices. You know, right? Like justin: Mm-hmm. Mm mm. None of Zach: There's no way I'm dating anyone who's dated my parents. justin: Who's who has had a sexual relationship with one of your parents? Yeah. That like that is Yeah, actively going to tear your family apart. Yeah. I I don't that's a tough that's a tough situation. I can't imagine Thanksgiving dinner Around all that, because it's not gonna happen. No. But yeah, I mean Zach: Yeah, and had an affair. Like an affair too. It's not like even like his parents are broken up and whatever, like I mean yeah. We've all seen, you know, Jerry Springer. It's it happens out there, but justin: Like outside of our core cast, right? Like Ben, Mrs. Robinson, and Elaine. I mean, Mr. Robinson, he doesn't really I don't know, and Ben's parents, like all of these other side characters, they just don't there there's nothing that they do or offer that I'm like, yeah, best character. Zach: Yeah, they really what I what I like about cause this movie and then the movie last week too, Breakfast had Tiffany's, in a lot of ways, like they don't give the secondary characters a lot of room. Like a lot of modern movies, like they wanna bring in that comic relief character. They wanna bring in like the sassy best friend, right? Like they want those things and like the movies from the fifties, sixties They don't really do that. Like you would think like we we watched Some Like It's Hot, right? And so the th you got their three main characters, and there is a little bit of side character action, but like they're in a whole band. And we don't know any of the other band members really in that movie because they're so focused on these character stories. Or like nowadays, like the spectacle and you know, plot are almost more important than like character in justin: Mm-hmm. No. Yeah. Zach: I will say one thing about watching these older movies that were I'm learning is like they were much more character driven and they keep really tight to these characters. And this movie's very tight to those three characters. And I think it shows because in them they end up all three of them get best actor nominations for this movie, right? Like whether it's supporting or or actress or actor. but they foc they give them space to really focus on the character, opposed to like, you know. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's right. Zach: having the world's craziest church, you know, r runaway scene in the third act. Even though it is crazy, but it's not short. justin: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Zach: Any other nominees for best or we wanna get into worst character? justin: No, he was my one and only. And I'm sat I'm I'm I'm I'm satisfied with him. He's a good pick. Zach: There go. He was mine too. I'm glad we're on the same page. Yeah. Yeah. all right. So let's do worst character. You want to talk about Ben again? justin: I for me, worst character hands down is Mrs. Robinson. For for all of her far her for all of her faults, she's a pretty terrible person for pursuing an affair and all these things. But her telling Elaine that Ben raped her, that pole vaulted her from like predatory cougar into an actual villain. because that's just ooh, that's a hard line to Yeah. Zach: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. It's unf that's unforgivable, right? Like you've messed up. And so your like your solution like you're one, like you pursued the affair. You're the one who instigated, right? a younger man. Now he is twenty-one, so like a lesser movie from a different time period would make him like seventeen or something stupid, and you'd be like, ugh Right. But like he's twenty one, so he is an adult, even if he is a young adult. justin: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Zach: But you pursued it. And then there is like said that pillow talk moment where there is some sympathy that's built for her. And you understand why she does not want him to date her daughter. Like it's very understandable. But then she just goes like full the worst first person on the planet when he is like justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Zach: You know, the truth comes out and then she's like time to I don't know. I don't even know why she does it. They're still getting divorced. So it's like doesn't even matter. justin: I yeah, I I mean like clearly it's I think Her only goal was to try to save face a little bit. Because I I mean that I think that's all it boils down to. They had a mutual agreement. They both were partied to participate in this thing together. So it's not like one was worse than the other. They both agreed to it. But for her part, she chose to try to throw him under the bus in the worst way possible. in a in offense that in modern times, I don't know, back in nineteen Zach: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. justin: sixty seven, but in modern times, I mean that's jail time. That's a that is a very serious offense. And like yeah, I don't know. Seeing her do that 'cause I I Zach: Yeah. justin: I thought that when Ben confessed all of that to Elaine that that would just be it, that's bad enough, like, you you had a sexual relationship with my mother, I don't want to be with you, Ben. But to see that they threw that on top of it too, ooh, it was tough. But that's Mrs. Robinson hands down was my worst. Yeah, Ben's not great in a lot of aspects, but throwing out an accusation like that is just Zach: Mm-hmm. No, I mean Ben's like a s a runner up, right? He's like a st he's stalking Elaine, right? And like Elaine like makes bad choices. She's not a bad person, just making bad choices by being like, I like Ben for some reason. Even though after he hit their first date he speeds and takes her to a strip club. And then she's crying and he kisses her and he's like, I'm sorry, I wasn't really trying I was just trying to make you not like me. And she's like, Okay, well, alright. justin: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah, Ben is no he's no peach. I mean like yeah, they all they both of them have their faults for sure. but yeah, Ben Zach: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's a testament to their acting that I'm not like dislike all of them more. Like I think like there is a charm that Dustin Hoffman has and also have like thirty year he him more so than any other actor from this movie, like has this filmography even though the other two women are very successful. I wasn't I would not say like I would have recognized them from this movie. justin: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Sure. Zach: you know, in later things. I th there is things I've seen them both in. I was like, she's in that okay, I guess, yeah. But Dustin Hoffman is like, you know. justin: Mm. Yeah, he's I mean he's he's an A lister. He's he's a big guy. He's a big deal. Zach: Yeah. Yeah, and so I I think maybe all and like most of the time he's very charming in the movies he's in or very funny or very fun. And so maybe it's all that like experience with him that I blo that I don't dislike Ben more. And maybe some of the relatableness of what it was like to be twenty two, twenty years old that is justin: Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah. Zach: Like keeps me more forgiving of him. Yeah, it could be my bias being a man at right too. and I don't I don't hate Mrs. Robinson at the end of the movie, but she does go like full supervillain at the end, so justin: Mm. Yeah, she's she tries to scorch earth on on Ben for sure. And yeah, I I wish we had like I don't know. I the whole I think we get a rough idea as to why Ben she doesn't want Ben to have a relationship with Elaine, but it's never she never comes out and flat says, like, I don't want you dating Elaine because of this reason. I think it's kind of inferred that, like, you know, she Zach: Yeah. justin: Maybe just once been for herself or she just after everything. Yeah, it's bizarre. And I mean, yeah, I can't imagine having an affair with a younger person and then, you know Zach: Just like it's weird. I mean we both have brothers. The ex girlfriends of your brothers was off limits. Let alone the ex girlfriend of the ex mistress of you know, of whatever. Like I mean, that's like double off limits, you know, kind of thing. Your mistress's daughter is off limits. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's just yeah Yeah. It's just it is, it's Mm. Very yeah, it's yeah, the whole thing is just bizarre. But she she takes the cake, the villain cake. For sure for me. Zach: Alright, next category. What's aged the best? justin: Centrophotography. Loved it. There I think the at the party, at Ben's party in the very beginning, the camera stays tight on Ben and it follows him around and you feel as claustrophobic as Ben feels and you feel as overwhelmed. I Yeah. Man, I loved it. Zach: Yeah. Editing and cinematography were awesome. Yeah. Yeah. The weight of it, the loss of it. Yeah. Like you're disoriented because you're so close to him and he's disoriented. It's like they do such a good job of using the camera. And honestly, like the staging of the scene. Like the the fish tank, it's such a weird motif through the whole movie. Like this water motif that they have, but you really feel like he is drowning. justin: Yeah. Yeah. Zach: And they keep adding water to remind you that he is, you know. justin: And I think I I f I was so blown away by that scene because I can't remember in Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, 'cause I think that was roughly around the same time. It w Yeah, nineteen sixty seven. Zach: Yeah, the same I think they're the si sixty seven, I think the same year, right? justin: Like so many of those scenes like yeah, there's close up scenes, but so many of those scenes I feel like back in the day, how they used to shoot scenes in movies, is that you would have a wide shot and then you'd have your actors just kind of moving around in the space. But the camera is largely stationary. So to see like a camera right up right on Ben's face and it's you're moving with him through this party, like that n I've I didn't know that this kind of stuff ha like existed back then. but yeah, the cinematography I think is phenomenal. I like we said, I feel like there's certain scenes and certain cuts and stuff that they were doing stuff at a time where it felt like it wasn't being done at all. So bravo. I think yeah. Zach: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, agreed. And I think 'cause I don't mind like you we've talked about this before, like I don't mind like the old cinematography where you kinda just let the actors be on screen. Like I almost feel like we have too much cutting now, too much editing, too much style thrown in there. but this movie like does a good balance of like using the cinematography to tell the story. And it wasn't because like, I think this would be cool. justin: Hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Zach: It's like I think this g like lets you feel what the character is feeling. And I I really like that. I had the music, I had Simon and Garfunkel. I love that song. Mr. Robinson is a great song, you know. justin: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I know the music was it was really good. I enjoyed it as well. Zach: His car, the Alfro Romero Spider. Yeah. That's our second our second convertible Dustin Hoffman movie. justin: Pretty cool car. I loved yeah. I I thought it was really f Yeah. That's a nice throwback. A nice throwback there, Rain Man. Yeah, his car was really cool. The whole time I kept thinking like that car is way too cool for Ben. Why the why the why is Ben driving this car? He's not you're not cool enough for this car, Ben. Zach: I'd like everyone just like he's just on an airport in the airport wearing a suit. He's always wearing a suit, you know, like as he gets more manic about Elaine is when he takes the tie off, but the whole time he's got like a tie on. He's either like in his boxers with Miss Robinson or he's in a tie. And I was like, you know, I was like, dressing up nice just for fun, you know, keep it a cash. I like it. We're too casual nowadays, you know. justin: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Way too casual in our You gotta wear comfy clothes. Yeah. Well, based off of their airplanes back in the sixties, I I was blown away at looking at like how much space they had, like seeing Ben on the plane. I'm like, man, I wish planes were like that these days. Zach: I get off the plane, I'm wearing pajamas and like you know, have the pillow around my neck, you know. Mm-hmm. I will say though, I wrote down like when he's traveling through the airport, like it feels very modern. Like he gets the plane, it lands, he's on the the moving sidewalk, he gets in his bag, comes down, they're like you hear the guy whistling about like three minutes in the parking, move keep moving, keep moving, right in the arrival lane, you know? It's like it feels like a modern airport. Like it's just you know, in the sixties they had the same thing, still the same thing going on. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Maybe maybe that's a a sad look at how how little we've come in what is that, sixty years? my god. Zach: Ha ha ha. I don't know. Now I can at least wash my phone on the plane. So you know. justin: Yeah, fair enough. Zach: yeah, I think that's all I had. And then just yeah, music, the concept of MILFs is great. justin: that but that was your number one, wasn't it? Zach: She's the original yeah, she's the OG, you know? Mrs. Robinson, the OG. American Pie owes so much to this movie, you know? justin: I I was about to say, American pie. Mm. Zach: Alright. Age the worst. justin: Hmm. And you wanna kick it off? Zach: Ben's sunglasses are awful. This I did not like them at all. They're very sixties. They look like old they look you know what they look like? They look like safety like safety glasses. justin: Ooh I'm trying to remember what I'm trying to remember what they looked like. I've Alright, I gotta look it up because I don't remember what his sunglasses look like. Zach: They were iconic from this movie, but man, I didn't know I was like, those are terrible. Glad I don't wear those. It doesn't age, like, you know, like like risky business, having some like Wayfares classic. A forever. His like whatever he's like dolching gabbana sunglasses he's wearing or whatever they are. justin: Yeah. Ha ha ha. yeah, those are really bad. Those look like early 2000s like cool guy sunglasses. Yeah, really bad. Man, I didn't even pick up on that. Good catch. Zach: Yeah. No. Yeah. justin: Yeah, those are bad. Good call. Yeah. Age the worst. Zach: in the in the when he's holding his beer, I know you don't drink beer as much as I do, but back in the day, like they didn't have tabs on their cocaine, they have to like poke a punch a hole in it. So like every beer he has, he's has like the hole punch mark in it. It's like a triangular punch that you had to do back in the day. I'm like, ugh. Yeah we don't have that anymore. justin: Mm. Mm-hmm. Okay. yeah, yeah. Zach: And you used to have to punch it from two sides 'cause they didn't have like a way for it to vent. So you would punch it from one side, punch it from the other. justin: Jesus, how do you know this? I didn't even know that that was a thing. Where do you pick up on facts like this? Zach: I don't know. I was like, I'm glad I don't have to do that anymore. In the opening my last no this is a I'll I'll I'll let you go here a second, I one more, that's like stupid. But like in the opening scene, when they're like, you know, the way they kind of communicate like all of his achievements, you know, in college, he was like, whatever. which they're reading from a college yearbook. I'm like, that's not a thing anymore. Everyone a yearbook, what? justin: Mm. Mm. God, yeah. Yeah. Did you did you imagine if you got a yearbook from from college when we graduated? Zach: Yeah, th I my parents still had them. I s I my dad has his, like from, you know, when he was in g in college. And I was like justin: That's nuts. Yeah. I mean I guess it also I yeah, I guess it also shows you just how much like college attendance has risen over the decades. 'Cause I'm sure back then Yeah. Zach: Well, they didn't even they didn't put like the class in them. So your cla you don't have like a class photo. It's just like it's basically the section of the high school yearbook that's after all the students where it's like, here's the football team, here's the baseball team, here's the you know, this club, here's this party, here's you know, whatever, here's this event. And so it's just more like like a collection of like what happened this year in them, but still, why would you need that? I'm not paying for that. justin: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. No, that's a good call out I didn't even know that yeah, they had collagery books back in the day. That's a wild, wild thing. Zach: All right, what do you got? justin: God. Well you had fun with yours. Mine are a little bit more serious. so I have well, I've it's a it's a two-parter. They go hand in hand. But Ben stalking Elaine at Berkeley. not not great, right? But also I think hmm The whole thing felt really bizarre. I was okay, when Ben goes to Berkeley, I was waiting for Ben to Zach: Okay. Yeah, not that didn't go well. justin: run up to Elaine and apologize and do something to like, I love you, I'm so sorry that happened, what can I do to get you back? Complete opposite of what he did. He gets on a bus and is like, hey, nice to see you here too, Elaine and like proceeds to follow her around the zoo, right? And then just make e the whole thing was just awkward. But yeah. But Zach: No, he's like delusional, right, yeah. He's like lost he's lost it. Well it's like when he's like, I'm gonna marry her and I'm like, What? justin: So this is this is the two parter y going back to doing the research into this movie was probably more fascinating than it should have been. But so the this I think what goes hand in hand is the the lack of any sort of like timestamps in the entire back half of the movie. Zach: Yeah. justin: It feels like from the time that they Ben and Elaine go out on their date to Ben stalking her at Berkeley happens in maybe a matter of days. I mean it feels like it yeah, it feels like it's just right there. And Ben is like, I'm ready to propose, we're gonna get married and all the things. And you it it's like, what how did this happen so quickly? but looking online, so it's based off of the novella, Zach: Yeah, maybe a week. okay. Yeah, I d I didn't look into the too much into the novel itself. justin: Yeah, so by like in according to Wikipedia, from the time that Everything falls apart in their date with Elaine and he tells her that he's been having an affair with her mom. And Elaine goes back to Berkeley and Ben follows her to Berkeley. In the book, several it says several months have passed. That gives so much more context into all of this because kind of like you were saying, when when you're young and you've haven't been in any kind of relationship and you don't know what to do, if we put it under that lens and Ben has probably been sitting at home for months, stupid Doing on this, maybe he really did build up in his head, like, I'm in love with Elaine, I have to marry Elaine. That makes way more sense than Ben rushing up there the very next day, renting a room, and then following her around and all the things, right? It makes everything less creepy, but we can infer, I feel like, that that's what they were trying to do with the movie. We kind of just have to take it at face value. But Zach: Mm-hmm. Ha ha ha. justin: But that's I guess that's my complaint. That's that's the part that I'm thinking or saying that age's the worst because we have no concept. We don't know how much time has passed, so it feels like whiplash if Hm Yeah, there's no seasons, there's no Yeah. Zach: Yeah. Again, there ain't that's the problem with putting a movie like in Southern California. You have no idea. It's always sunny, it's always seventy, you d you know, you have no idea how long she's been back at school. She's clearly back in her classes, you know, dating other men's like how long has she been with Carl? Like, yeah, you have no idea. Like why is he marrying her in three months, you know, or was she dating him before? You have no idea. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Carl, yeah. And they so we get Yeah. So great call out, right? Like and I think that that's also kind of another hint that I think that they were trying to do that, but they didn't clearly explain it. When Ben first when Ben and Elaine meet Carl at the zoo, or I I don't remember if it was at the zoo, but Elaine tells Ben that Carl is a medical student. When they go and get married, he is Dr. Carl. So enough time has passed that he has gotten all of his certifications and whatever. I'm assuming, right? I don't think you would call a medical student a doctor yet if he hasn't graduated and done all of his things. But if it's anything like the book leads us to believe that like months, if not years have passed, then yeah, sure, absolutely. Elaine probably had a relationship with another dude and you know, all the things, and they they planned a wedding, but Zach: Yeah. justin: In the movie, it feels like it happens in maybe a week. If that might be generous. If Zach: Yeah, yeah. He maybe's at maybe it's like a week between him getting to Berkeley and then he's at Berkeley for like three weeks or something, you know, in this in the renting this apartment or whatever. I don't know. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. But it just it happens so fast and I feel like that I feel like even if shit, I would have been happy with just like a black screen fade out saying like six months later. I don't care. J just give me some kind of time reference to go on. but otherwise, yeah, I think that was my not as fun as yours, Mr. Beer Can Tab open. Zach: Yeah. Time timeline is yeah. Yeah. Yeah, or yeah. I got I I got one more I got one more age the worst. But I wanted to save this one because I think it's like okay. So when Mrs. Robinson is first seducing Ben, and then her husband, Mr. Robinson, comes home. And he's like, Ben, come have a drink with me, blah blah blah. You know. and then he's like, You know what, you want a piece of advice? Go sow some wild oats. justin: Ha ha ha. Zach: By the way, so it's like sleep with people, to have sex with a bunch of women this summer, you know? It's like, and my daughter's coming out, so I'm gonna pin my daughter out to you. Like, wait, whoa, what are you talking about? justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, Mr. Robinson was wild. He was I don't know what was up with him. Zach: I'm like, wait, you just told him to go sleep with women and have multiple, you know, flings, and then you're like, and also give my daughter a call. I'm like, no. No, no, no, no, no. Maybe I'm like, why are you pimping your daughter out, bro? justin: Yeah. I don't know. Maybe Mr Maybe Mr. Robinson was a little freaky. I was kind of halfway expecting when Mr. Robinson came home that night, the very first night, that he was he was gonna say something like and be totally cool with Ben having a like an open a affair with Mrs. Robinson. I I had a I had a hunch, but it didn't happen. It went the complete opposite way. He he threatened to he threatened to press charges. yeah. Zach: Mm-hmm. No, he was not cool with it. Yeah, they were they were threatening to arrest him a lot and I'm like, I'm not sure he's actually committed any crimes. Maybe until he break until he does a B and E at the end of the movie when he gets he goes into Miss Robins' house. But justin: Yeah. Yeah. yeah. I forgot about the I forgot about him breaking into their house. Zach: Until he does a bold B and E, but anyways. All right. W T F. justin: my god. Hmm. Yeah, hit me with what you found, Mr. Subtitle. I didn't hear anything that I've I've probably just skipped over it, but I didn't hear anything. Zach: Well like okay, a couple things. So in the opening scene at the airport, when he's ac or when he's actually on the plane and he's sitting on the seats, there's like the radio next to his head with like the little knob. I'm like, Is that a radio? I'm like, what what is that on the seat of the airplane? Did not know. I was like, is it like why would you need a radio next to every single person's head? So maybe maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. I don't know. You know. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah, fair. Yeah. Zach: I know the term, but I'm like teeny bopper. Like I don't know if everyone would pick that one up right when she's it's like are you been dating all those teeny boppers? You know. Whatever. and then when he's trying to convince Mrs. Robinson to like he's like, I don't want to drive you home, just take you can just take my car. And he's like, Do you know how to drive a foreign shifty? So I'm like, I I'm like, was there a different stick shift for foreign cars back in the day? Didn't I know? Yeah. justin: Mm. Yeah. Mm. Hmm. I g I mean clear clearly I think so, 'cause he had a foreign car. Zach: Yeah, and she's she's like, No, I can't drive a foreign shift. And I'm like, Huh, okay. This isn't so much of like, what is this? But I was just like, W, what the fuck? Was like the bar at the Robinsons and they have like all their liquor is in like a tiki head or something. And then she pulls up the lighter and the lighter is like justin: Huh. Hmm. Yeah. yeah. It's like this big. It's huge. Yeah. Zach: Yeah, it's like the size of a wine bottle. You know, she's like, like, WTF is that. That was like literally like, what the fuck is that? But and then the one, the real thing that I I actually did go look up because I was like, what the fuck are they talking about? was when he's like, We need to get married. And she's like, Okay, maybe, I don't know. He's like, Come on, let's go get blood tests. And I'm like, blood tests? justin: Yeah. yeah, what was that? I didn't understand that part. Zach: I I was like, what do you what do you mean he's like, Come on, we gotta go get our blood test, gotta go get a blood test. So this one I was like this was part of the research. I was like, I gotta look up what this is. Like this is so bizarre. 'Cause like why would you need a blood test to get married? But I guess back in the day, like they were so worried about like the spread of sexually sexual diseases, particularly two children, that they wanted the and two partners for that matter, like syphilis and things like that They wanted you to get a blood test before you got ma in order to get a marriage license. Not to show that you didn't have the disease, but to make sure that everyone was aware that the disease existed. And if it was like syphilis, take some antibiotics, right? Like go clear it up. Even though penicillin was like just skidding around, I think, in the fifties and forties. But so they would have had penicillin in the sixties, but it was like just getting into like we're trying to prevent justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Hmm. Zach: disease spread. And apparently like this was a thing s you know back in the twenties, thirties. There was some eugenics bullshit about it too back in the day. but not as not as widespread as like more the just like trying to prevent in particular syphilis and then later AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases. And the last state to get rid of this requirement was Montana. Can you guess the year? justin: Yeah. Ha ha ha. Hm. God. I have no idea. What? Two thousand and three. Zach: Two thousand and nineteen. justin: Jesus. What are we doing? Zach: I don't know. I was like, I don't know why you would need this. And they were like and I think you know, it was just it was just trying to be like, let's be health aware. Go make sure you are healthy. Not that you can't get married if you're not healthy, but like it's like if you're gonna have kids, syphilis is very dangerous for babies and like other other diseases too, you know, have associated with birth defects and things like go get tested so that you can take care of it before justin: Yeah. Mm. Zach: you did that that next step in your life. But it was just so interesting because it seems like such an antiquated thought today. yeah it was it was odd. Yeah. And yeah. I had no idea either. I was like, what are they talking about? What do you mean blood test? I'm like I was like, I just walked down to the courthouse and I was like, Can I have my little pe piece of paper please? justin: Yeah. Yeah. Very very interesting. Yeah. That's a g that's a great history lesson though. I had no idea. Yeah. Ha ha ha Zach: Look, that'll be seventy dollars. You're like, okay, all right, here you go. I guess I get a tax break, but I don't know. justin: Buncha thieves. Mm. Yeah, throw a couple kids in there, make it even better. Hmm. Zach: Yeah. But that was my big one. And then like the hotel registry too. That was like I know what a register is, but it's like the fact that he had like signed his name in and everything for a hotel is kind of another like just old, old timey thing to do. Yeah. justin: Yeah. Mist Mr. Gladstone. Zach: Alright. Sequel time. justin: Mm. yeah. Wha yeah, sequel. I mean clearly we would have to see what happens with Ben and Elaine. Like, do her parents get divorced? Do they or do her parents come after them? Does her father press charges? Like he threatened? I feel like there's so many questions that a sequel would have actually been amazing. but I don't know if you saw this. The the book, the author of the first book, did write a sequel. Zach: Yeah. justin: and for anybody who didn't know, it was called Homeschool, and the sequel was about how Ben and Elaine, who were married, were fighting to allow for their child to be homeschooled, so they turned to Mrs. Robinson for help. And apparently it was poorly received, rightful rightfully so, because that sounds boring as hell and it makes no sense. Zach: Ha ha. justin: I would love to understand who wrote this book and the follow-up sequel and how they went about it. Zach: Well the o the artist yeah, the artist who wrote this book 'cause like i what's interesting, y you know, when you're when you're looking at like adaptations, most of the time like there's like some renown for the thing you're adapting. And from what I understand justin: Mm. Zach: This book was not popular. Not successful at all. And like, you know, just got in the right hand and someone was creative enough to think of the movie for it. But like it was not a successful book. And apparently this artist, the guy who wrote it, which I I should have writ written his name down, it was doo-doo doo. justin: Yeah. Yeah. Zach: Based on a book by this guy. justin: This nerd. Zach: By Charles Webb. You know, apparently he was like, I don't like the movie. And they didn't pay me for it. Or they didn't like he didn't have any royalties with it. And like when he wrote the contract, I guess like if he published a sequel, they had first right at making any creative content based on the graduate without even without him getting anything for it. justin: Mm. Woo! Yeah. Huh. Yeah. Zach: So like he's like I'm not so he had the book written and like took him like thirty years to publish it to where like they weren't going to get the rights to the book or for the movie rights to it, which was like. So this guy was like pretty petty about his no maybe rightfully so, it was a very successful movie. Number the highest grossing movie in nineteen sixty seven. Yeah. Like, did you see the inflation adjusted number for this? It was like eight hundred million dollars or something. justin: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I could see I would y No, what was it? Jesus Christ. That isn't insane. Yeah, I'd probably be a little bit salty too if they took if they took my book idea and I didn't like it. Zach: Yeah. But I was just like, number one movie of nineteen sixty seven. This movie is so funny. justin: I just thought that was so wild. Of all of the things that you could write a sequel about, this story and that's what you choose to do. Home school. That's just nuts. I've never Zach: Yeah, I know. No, I mean like to me, like, I I don't even really know. 'Cause like at some point Elaine's gonna be like, You ruined my life You know? And maybe, you know, she's like love conquers all I'm okay with like just leaving everyone in my f my family behind. My mom is clearly a mess, you know, and my dad is, you know justin: Mm-hmm. You yeah, you would think. Zach: They're in a leveless marriage. It's like I can leave everything behind. And so maybe she's okay with that. And maybe he's okay with that. Cause like, you know, their business his dads are bus their dads are business partners, right? It's like clearly that's not gonna survive. So it's like they have to be okay with like leaving scorched earth behind them. And she also has to be okay, like that he slept with their mom and broke her parents, you know. justin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm. Zach: Whether it was a good marriage or not, but you know, it was one of the factors leading to the end of their marriage. So she's like, she's just getting past all this stuff. Like in my mind, this the what happens the next day in this movie is she like wakes up and is like, This is not good. Like I don't there's no way. And then they leave and they never talk to each other again. She goes back to her family. People just move on and have boring rest of their lives, like and they're just their dads separate their business. Like it's just kind of a messy justin: Mm. Zach: And then just kinda they just kinda go their own separate ways. Like that's like like I think how reality would work here, right? You just like you're like, yeah, these two kids just really created a big old mess of things and then I guess we just all move on now, you know. justin: Nope. Yeah. I mean Elaine Elaine had a doctor. She had Doctor Carl on the hook and then she chose Ben. Zach: Mm-hmm. justin: It's a wild choice right there, buddy. Mm. Zach: Yeah, you know. He did bring her to a strip club though, so maybe she's into that. justin: Yeah. And there were she had tassels bounced on her head. And she cried. Zach: I mean like not the worst first date I've ever heard of, but you know justin: I actually thought it was really funny when she started crying in that scene. 'Cause it's like w I mean, yeah, this is like not great. Not a great first date, but you're crying? Why are you crying? Zach: I don't know, I probably would be crying and be like I probably I wouldn't be crying. What I would have done is just been like if I was her, just be like, fuck this. I have to st I don't have to part of this. Just leave. justin: Look. Look, if if if a girl took me on a first date to a male strip club and the dude was meat spinning o' next to my head, I don't I don't know if I would cry about it. I think I might be a little bit angry, but I don't think I cry. Zach: Yeah. No, I think I'd just be like, No, I'm not doing that. I'm out. justin: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll see you later. Thanks for the thanks for the date. Zach: I'll call a newber. I'll see ya. Or your thanks. anyways. Alright, let's get it's like yeah, I I don't know if there's a good sequel to this movie. I think you could I think it would be interesting to see what happens, right? Like it's there's like reality probably dictates not a lot, just big mess and then it's like people just move on. But like it you could make you could have a very creative, you know, story around like Yeah, how these people deal with a new marriage. Maybe Kramer to maybe Kramer versus Kramer is literally should be justin: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Zach: Like, instead of with Meryl Streep, you bring back in Catherine Ross and it's a divorce story about them, you know, like 'cause like you know this is not a healthy relationship, right? And it justin: Mm. Mm. No. I feel like so many of the movies that we've discussed, they don't really th th the end of the movie leaves things very clean cut and there's not a whole lot of room for a sequel. This is one of the rare instances where a sequel would have been amazing. And 'cause there's just so much d destruction in the wake of what they did. And yeah, it would have been really fun to see what happens after that. But w we will never know. Zach: Yeah. Yeah. No 'cause the movie like I will say like not my favorite scene but the movie the movie does end so interesting because it lets like the acting of the actors just like as they like become more like real like as the realization hits on their faces and you're like they're like, what did we just do? As they're on that bus and you're like, and then movie's over. You're like justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Zach: They're gonna have an inter they're about to have an interesting conversation. All right, you let's go through some nitpicks. I don't have too many for this movie, but justin: Yep. I only have I only have two. And we've actually we kinda talked about one of them, but yeah. You kick it off. What do you got? Zach: Alright, I have dumb ones. Okay. One of the first times Ben is in the pool. He gets out of the water and he walks over, and it's during the montage scene, and he puts the shirt on. His shirt on? Doesn't tell off. Like, dude, what you doing? Nitpick number one. You're gonna tell that you're gonna tell off where you put your shirt on. I was like, ugh. justin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah. That's fair. That's fair. That's a good call out. That along with the sunglasses, you are really paying attention to style and outfit and functionality. Zach: Just the worst. Mm-hmm. Okay, another one. So he Elaine comes over to his Berkeley apartment. and she's like asks he's sleeping, right? And he like, what's going You he like wakes up, he's like all surprised and she's like, Kiss me. Dude, morning breath. That's not good kissing right there. He just was asleep, that's no way. She's like, Mm, yum, yum, yum, yum. No justin: Hmm. I like to see where your priorities are. Yeah. Zach: Alright, last nit la my last nitpick is like the church when he runs up to it and the front door is locked, so he has to go up to the balcony, right? Like slam on the glass and everything. Why is the front door in the church locked during a wedding? Are they like is Miss Robinson like expecting him to show up until she like locked the door or like is it like I don't know, why is the door locked? That's weird. justin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yes it is. It doesn't make any sense. Other than just d dramatic effect. They had to get Ben up top. Mm-hmm. I mean I I feel like they probably scouted out that church. I I don't know. Maybe it's in the book, but I feel like they scouted out the church and like, ooh, what if Ben was up there? But how do we get him up there? Let's lock the doors. Yeah, I could see it. Zach: Yeah, just to just to get him up to that second balcony or whatever, but like up to that balcony and hit the glass, but I'm like Alright, those are my three stupid ones. What do you got? justin: okay, also in the montage of Ben sleeping with Mrs. Robinson, he's in the pool, but his dad asks him if he's going to go to graduate school, and he says, if not, what were those four years of college for? Ben graduated when he was twenty, twenty years old. So did he leave high school when he was sixteen? Does that mean he's like insanely smart? Zach: Yeah, maybe he's a I mean, he was a very accomplished student. justin: Yeah, so and I Googled it. It high Google says the high school graduate age back in nineteen sixty seven was still mostly eighteen year olds. So Zach: Yeah, I mean our parents were ten years older than that, but like my grandma gradu my grandma was graduated in like nineteen thirty nine and it sh she graduated at eighteen. Yeah, I don't know. That's a good point. That's really that's really good that's a good that's a good call out. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't I don't know. Yeah. and then my last one, you touched on it, but it's I like Dustin Hoffman, but let's come on. I this Zach: No, why is I mean it's it's not a nitpick and I don't know but like why is Miss Robin interested in him? Yeah. justin: Y no, exactly. Like Dustin Hoffman, we are supposed to believe that he had a mom and her daughter g I mean, essentially, stumbling over themselves for him. Just d like they wanted him more than anything, right? I mean, especially Elaine, like, you're gonna tell me that after hearing that your mom had an affair with him And you have a marriage offer on the table from a b a future doctor that you were you're gonna pick Ben. I thought it was really funny, according to Wikipedia, when Dustin Hoffman auditioned, he had to do a love scene with Elaine, and he said himself that she would never go for a guy like him in the real world. And Elaine agreed, saying, quote, he looked about three feet tall and unkempt. And apparently even the producer of the movie thought at first that Dustin Hoffman was just one of the messenger boys. He had no idea that Dustin Hoffman was like the leading actor in this movie. So like yeah, it's just I don't know, it was just funny. I love Dustin Hoffman, but having to suspend our belief that like is he really this dude that these women are f falling over? Zach: Yeah. Yeah, it that's the odd part, right? It's like why would she like and she like headhunted him, right? She's like I don't know if it's just out of convenience, 'cause she's like, I'm at this party and might as well. Like I it's just so odd. Like if you're gonna have an affair, just okay, like justin: Yeah. Yeah. Like did you see the list of like other people that auditioned for this role? I like they had hair like what'd you say? Robert Redford was on there. I think Harrison Ford was on there. Alright, if Harrison Ford played Ben, I think I might I think I'd believe that he had a mom and her daughter going nuts. Yeah. Exactly. But n but not dust and off. Zach: yeah, yeah. Yeah, they're here. No. yeah, but and me, you know. No. I mean so r r rum I don't know how much this is true, right? But here's like the rumored list. So Harrison Ford. then you had Robert Redford, also just incredibly handsome. justin: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zach: you had Jack Nicholson, which I'm like, but you know, like he is a very famous actor in the 70s, for sure. Probably the biggest actor of the 70s. Steve McQueen, very handsome. Warren Beatty, very handsome. Like it's just actually the one rumor that I heard was that Bert Ward was offered the role. Do you know who Burt Ward is? He's Robin in the like Adam West Batman and Robin 1960s series. justin: Yeah. Mm-hmm. No. wow. Yeah, yeah. Zach: He like one that was like rumored that he was like got the closest. And like I could see like if they're casting why Burt Ward and Dustin Hoffman could would be like they have very similar diminutive kind of vibes, young person kind of vibes. So I kinda get that. But this justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I mean from an acting from an acting standpoint, Dustin Hoffman nails the kind of goofy, like uncertain, I'm unsure of myself young guy, right? He he nails that perfectly. But for us to believe that he is just this Zach: Yeah. justin: This crazy catch that these women, they just have to have him. No. So many of those scenes. I feel so bad. It's not like it's his fault. He can't control it. I had to look it up. He's five five. So many of the scenes. He is shorter than I think he's shorter than Elaine. And I don't know. She could be wearing high heels, but like Zach: Yeah, he's he's a nugget. Yeah. Still. justin: And there is nothing wrong with being short whatsoever. But I you're not gonna convince me that goofy Dustin Hoffman was just this crazy catch. But that's it. Those are my those are my hot takes and my nitpicks. Zach: Mm-hmm. No, I literally had like why does she like him? He's a diminutive weirdo. That's what I said. justin: Yeah. Yeah. Zach: the only other thing I kinda had was like, and it's I don't know if it's like not a nitpick on like the the production of the movie, but like a nitpick on like the reality of the situation. If I'm in the house with Miss Robinson and she is hitting on me and I'm constantly trying to leave and she's constantly bringing me back in, man. I'm out. Like justin: Mm. Yeah, yeah. Zach: The o only thing keeping him there is politeness. justin: Yeah. Yes it is. Zach: I'm like, I am gone. I'm like, dude, fuck it. I'm out. justin: Yeah. Just take off. And it would a I think it would actually fit his character quite nicely if he just turned tail and ran and ran away, ran out the front door. Hmm. Zach: Yeah. It would. I would. The scene when he's like locked in the room and she's naked and he's like can't take his eyes off of her like you know, private areas. He's like, I don't know he's just scared but he can't like move his eyes. That's pretty funny, too. justin: Yeah. Zach: man, I'm telling you, that's exactly how I'd be I t I'd be terrified. justin: Yeah, I think anybody would. Well, most people would. There'd probably be some, yeah. Zach: Yeah, yeah. Alright, any other nitpicks? justin: No, that's all I had. Zach: This the morning breath, like gross. All right. So let's rate this. Well we think it's a classic. justin: I think I can be swayed. I really like I said, in the beginning, it's tough for me. I really enjoyed the first half. the back half, I felt like the wheels kinda fell off for me, but I feel like it is pretty impressive to see Zach: Mm-hmm. justin: how many other shows and movies pay tribute to this, right? Like it is it is a monument in I feel like American cinema that it left a huge mark on on so many actors and directors and people in the business and the industry, whatever. But so I don't know. Even though it was not like a home run for me, I could be swayed. I mean I could go either way. Like it d Zach: Yeah, the more the more I sat with the movie, the more I did like it, I felt like. Like at first I think when the movie first ended, I was like, What the fuck did I just watch? mainly 'cause I was like there was a point in this movie, like especially that back half where it gets like one thing I like, he gets darker, right? 'Cause he's like stalking her and like the lighting gets darker. Like his apartment is always dark, you know? And I was like justin: Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. Zach: And then when he walks in and Mr Mr. Robinson is in there and you know, is like, I'm getting a divorce, you ruined everything, stay away from my daughter, all that stuff. There's part of me that'd be like, Someone might die at the end of the movie You know? I was like I was like I'm like w like is someone gonna get shot? Like is it gonna someone's gonna shoot somebody? Like I don't know. Like I could see this movie ending really dark. And I I totally forgot about like that the wedding thing hadn't happened yet and like justin: Mm-hmm. It got it got pretty serious. Yeah. Zach: I was like, when I saw, I was like, yeah, yeah, this is how the movie ends. I've seen I've seen this ending before. But I was like, someone might he might get shot. justin: He I think Mr. Robinson like jumps over the bed to get away from him. Like he's I think he's scared of Ben, which is also, again, really funny, because what's Ben gonna do? Little old Ben. But Zach: Yeah. Yeah, so like the sus like y to your point, the back half, the pacing of it, I feel like the weakest part of this movie is the pacing of the Elaine relationship. Like I don't fe I feel like they n they actually did need like one more date where he was like genuinely nice to her. Like 'cause like you just see him being terrible 'cause like I need to end this quickly. So I'm just gonna be terrible. justin: Well. Mm. Yeah. Zach: And then it goes to like them in like the car hop and you're supposed to be like, okay, yeah, they're actually like he's like, okay, I'm gonna be nice now. I actually do, you know, feel bad. And then like they just needed like another moment with them to like sell me more on the relationship. They spend so much time building the Robinson relationship and like really working at it too. Like it's not instantaneous. So you have to really work at it. Where like the Elaine relationship, I don't feel is as well earned. justin: Well. Zach: And it ends so quickly, and then he's just stalking her, right? You know, so it's like and especially for her side. I'm like, I don't know why she likes him at all. Like all he's done is treat her bad on a first date, kinda make it up by the end of the date, and then sleep with let her know that he slept with her mom. Like that's like that's a whole experience. So I do feel there's like a weakness in that second half. But then when he gets to Berkeley, there's like this intensity that's like justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So Zach: 'Cause like there's just like just unknown like what's gonna happen, like like to the point where I'm like like I literally thought like people were in potentially in danger, either from him going insane because he was, or from Mrs. Robinson going insane cause she was, or from even Mr. Robinson when he shows up, like, well, maybe it's him. Like I'm like, there's just this kind of just anger grows at the end of the film that makes it interesting and kind of suspenseful. But I do feel like the the LA in relationship is weak. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, no, I agree. I I think that's that's that is the biggest hitter on the back half of the movie. 'Cause yeah, like you said earlier, it just doesn't feel earned. But it's supposed to be this big inciting incident as to why everybody falls in the place where they fall at the end. It's because Ben wants to be with Elaine and and vice versa. but it just doesn't yeah, even like Ben like it even Ben falling in love with Elaine, if you could say that. I mean, they go on the date, they go to the strip club, she cries, and then he chases her outside and he's like, I let me kiss you like what? Where did this come from? I th I thought you didn't you had you guys haven't even said two words to each other. Yeah. Zach: So yeah. You basically just forced himself on her, right? Like she's crying, she doesn't like you, you've just been a big jerk, and then you forced yourself on her. Like that's what it's like what it feels like. That probably that's an age the worst too, right? Like Yeah. It's it's a weird the relation their relationship. Like what I would've I almost I don't know. Cause I do think the Robinson's the Mrs. Robinson stuff is so great. And it really is more the justin: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Zach: I was gonna say it's like more the heart of the movie, but it's not heart. But it's more the like the the the like the the relationship of the movie is really them, right? And she does get sidelined in the third act, but the relationship of the movie is really Robinson and Ben. Mrs. Robinson and Ben. So like I I do understand why they spent more time on it. But I think like the movie almost makes more sense if she seduces him in the beginning. justin: Yeah. Yeah. Zach: He denies her. Then he's like, I am really lonely and lost. I don't know. Maybe this is a good idea. He calls her. They sleep together one time. Elaine comes home and you know, he like starts a friendship with her and it kind of organically goes to the movie. And he only sleeps with Ms. Robinson one time. Cause then it's like more forgivable in a lot of ways. If it's not like this long-term affair. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zach: Maybe it ruins the whole conceit of the movie and it's like to I'm just making everything more palatable. But like I would have almost been like, okay, the Robinson thing is like one time and then they spend more time developing the Elaine relationship whilst you know that there's this bomb that's out there. I don't know, you know? so maybe the focus of the movie is more on them when and you're just waiting for this bomb to drop and how's she gonna deal with it? But I don't know, then you ruin kind of like the more justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Zach: I'm just making it more palatable and I'm making it more like less about maybe what the author and the the pr and the you know the story writer really wanted the movie to be about, which is like this kind of jaded world that we live in. So I don't know. justin: Mhm. Yeah. It's a I don't know. I mean like it's tha I I definitely agree, that would have been a better way. I think subjectively, I would have enjoyed the story a lot more if it was told in that in that way. But yeah, I don't know. Like Yeah. Mm-hmm. Cause it Zach: Mm-hmm. But that and that's probably how it would've been written today, you know, like 'cause it's more palatable, it's more Netflixy, it's more, you know. justin: it it would have been more yeah, it would have been more believable. Everything would've been there would have been more importance and emphasis placed on his relationship with Elaine. And this i his relationship with Elaine feels like, I don't know, just some Zach: Yeah. justin: necessary thing that had to be slapped on at the end. But it feels like so much of the this movie was made for his affair with Mrs. Robinson. And then, we got we ha we gotta do the Elaine thing. So like let's I guess let's fit that in. That's what it felt like. Zach: Yeah. The and the the Elaine piece is interesting because she's nominated for an Academy Award for this movie. And I really don't feel like she earns that Academy Award nomination until she starts breaking down at Berkeley with him. Right? Like 'cause like when you first meet her, she's got really no dialogue barely in the movie. Then he tells her and it's still such focused on Miss Robinson that the Elaine's kinda not this character. justin: Hm. Mm-hmm. Zach: And then finally when he goes to Berkeley and she shows up at his apartment and kisses him and then he like pesters her walking around campus for like a day. it's like she's the the acting her acting, which I thought was really good, starts to show itself more, right? And she earns that Oscar nomination. But like she only like really she only gets like twenty minutes mm if that of s of not even screen time, just like time that she's really in the movie. She's only like in the back twenty minutes of the movie, really. justin: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's all like I don't know, everything that we've talked about, I feel like for me personally, I wouldn't put it in a classic category. But out of respect for Zach: Sure. Mm-hmm. justin: the impact that this has left on the industry in Hollywood, because clearly it has. And like there have been things that I think this movie did at times when nothing else was doing it and it impacted future generations. Like it from that aspect, yeah, it does. It feels like it's absolutely a classic. 'cause I mean I do think like regardless of, you know, the actual movie itself, the the waves that it makes, I think that that constitutes a classic category. I can be swayed. I don't I don't really have I don't lean one way or the other. I'm kind of in Zach: Yeah. No, I I f I think I'm with you. Like this is not a personal classic for me. Like it's not a movie that like I would be like, you gotta see this, right? Like, because it's so good. but the more I spend time with it, the more I liked it. Like the more I liked the movie. I totally get like it captures a lot of things of youth that I think are hard to capture. I think it does a really good job of that. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zach: Especially male youth, maybe even more so. but it like if I'm studying film, I'm watching this movie because it's like an important stepping stone along the path of modern cinema. And so you're like, yep, I'm studying this movie because it's the history of cinema, but it's the history. justin: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Zach: You could learn everything that that about being a filmmaker and about being an actor from modern movies, right? Like you don't have to have this movie to learn what this movie does necessarily because so many things derive from it, some ways improve upon it, maybe some ways some of the lessons of it, right? But like I think you go watch, you know, a Fincher movie today and you capture all the same things that this movie justin: Mm-hmm. Sure. Zach: uses, right? Like, you know, the melon, like the the kind of the dark humor or c or Cohen brother movie. Like you can learn what they learned from this movie from them. So like I don't know, maybe that's stupid thing to say or whatever, right? So like I think I get I'm with you. justin: Mm mm. Zach: Like it's probably not a personal classic for me. Like the movie was good. I think there's a big problem in the middle, at least the the middle ha the middle or the first part of the back half, especially. and I think there's some really high points in the movie. I think the editing is great and really inventive and I really, really like can appreciate it. So I think like from a classic, from like an important part of f film history, justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zach: belongs in like the National Film Registry as like an important piece of film history. But like I don't know. I I like I like other movies that I think were derived from this movie better in in some ways and I just yeah, it's like it's good. It's good. But I think it has like a plot problem in the middle. Yeah. So good movie though. I did enjoy it. I had a lot of fun with it. Obviously I've been we've been we've been very complimentary of it, I think. justin: Mm. Yeah. Mm. Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. No, yeah, all things considered. I mean like even the back half, like I I actually I laughed pretty good at the whole church scene. Just because like seeing Ben rush in there and then elbow her dad and push down Carl and then he's like swinging a a cross at everybody, I was like, What? Zach: yeah, he's he's it he's insane looking. justin: Yeah. Like even though it it it just it's like we skyrocket into almost like a an act of violence. It was like I like, what is happening? This is fun. Zach: Well that that's the thing about that scene too, right? It's like that's what's so interesting about I'm glad you brought this up, because I had the exact same thought. I'm like, what's so interesting about this scene? 'Cause we've seen the like we stop the wedding thing a hundred times, right? And like they run off together or whatever. But it's like the hatred and violence that everyone is displaying in that scene. Like Miss Robinson hates him. Mr. Robinson hates justin: Mm-hmm. Mm. shit. Zach: hates him. And they're like, I'm gonna just rr like, you know, break this kid I hate so much. Carl like has this like manic 80s villain look to him, right? Like you know, in that scene and like most of the time they run off and it's like, you know, everyone's like in their seats, like, my God. And this one they're like he has to fight them off with the cross to get out of there, you know? justin: Ha ha ha. Yeah. Mrs. Robinson slaps Elaine. Slaps her hard. Like she's she's pissed. Yeah. Zach: Yeah. I know. Yeah. Like it's violent their anger and hatred that everyone has in that moment, which I don't think other people have done in cinema since then for this like very cliche I break up a wedding scene. You know, kind of thing. It's really interesting. Like he gets out there, his sh like jacket thing is all ripped to shreds and they're sitting on that bus and I'm like that was wild. justin: Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. I mean the whole thing, yeah. The whole movie it was. It was it was extremely entertaining and there's a lot to like about it. I think there's just there's just nitpicks. Things that we I think could have been done better or could have been smoother, but yeah. Zach: Yeah. Yeah, same. Yeah, I think everyone should watch this film though. There's no one I think you should not watch this. I think it's like maybe don't, you know, wait till you're a little older. But don't show this to your kids. But like you like everyone should watch this. It's a very interesting movie, really interesting point in cinema history, like justin: Let Mm-hmm. If you have teenagers make them watch this movie so they learn a lesson not to have an affair with an older married person. Boom. Done. Easy. Zach: Yeah. I I I actually I I'm with I mean, I know you're joking there, but like I I'm with you. Like I think you should show this to like your 19 year old. Cause I think their first time they watch it, they'll have a different if they can get past the old movie stuff, right? Sometimes it's just like I hate old movies, right? But like if they can get past that, right, and they watch this movie, I'd be really curious their opinion and then like have them watch it fifteen years later again. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach: And like, what'd you think of the movie now? Like I'd be really interested to maybe I'll experiment on my children. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Especially from like a young single teenager versus when they're older and have kids themselves. P particularly daughters, 'cause yeah, I can tell you with a fact that I would never do what Mr. Robinson did in this movie. I would never suggest that Ben goes sleep around and then hey, call my daughter when you're done. Zach: Yeah, exactly. Like R H, right? I'm like, yeah. Nah, I'm gonna mm. Hey, f well, that part. But I'm like, we're already setting our s kids up, right? I thought we were doing that justin: Yeah, there you go. Zach: No, but we seriously. They're betrolled, okay? All right. Well that brings us I think to the end of our episode, unless you have any more thoughts. Alright, so not a classic for us, but hey, we get it. We get this one. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. justin: Yeah. No, I don't. I'm all good. Well well worth the watch. Go watch it if you haven't seen it. Zach: well anyways everyone, thank you for listening. we have a email address, popcorn and pals all spelled out, all lowercase at gmail.com. Send us your movie recommendations, let us know how annoying we are, you know, whatever, right? Any engagement is engagement, please. We need engagement. And then we also have a YouTube channel, so check us out there. We just you know put the move the podcast up there and then some shorts from clips from the from the show. and in the meantime everyone, thank you so much for listening and keep popping that popcorn.