Latest / The Well with Dr. Wendi / One of the 6̶0̶0̶,̶0̶0̶0̶ 700,000+

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One of the 6̶0̶0̶,̶0̶0̶0̶ 700,000+ · The Well with Dr. Wendi

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the wellness to the public for the leaders.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the defects working with leaders and studying the relationship between work and wellness and healthcare and feeds on leadership.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Wherever you are on your leadership journey and wherever you leave, you will learn something here.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: You are welcome here exactly as you are.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the well.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Wherever you are, whatever you've carried in with you, you don't have to carry it for the next little while.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go ahead and place that down.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: This is a place to draw from, not one more place that has something of you.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: So let's take a breath in together.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: And let the out breath be the longer one.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Let it linger a bit, slow it down.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: You've been holding something up, maybe for a long time.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to name it, you don't have to fix it.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Just for now, set it down beside you.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: It will certainly still be there when we're done.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: But you won't be quite as alone with it.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: We'll be in the well together.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: And this is what the well is for.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: You came to replenish, to think, and when you're ready to lead from a full place, not an emptied one.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: So one more breath in.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Let's begin.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to the well.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Dr.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Wendy.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: With each episode that we begin at the well, we'll start with where that episode will draw us in in the R cycle.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: The R Cycle is a framework that I developed to help those who I work with kind of figure out where they are when they're in their leadership renewal and wellness journey.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: There are four stages, so I'll tell you them really quickly now.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you can, of course, learn more about the well and all the things that we do at the well on on my website, drwendywilliams.com.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: But there are four stages in the R cycle.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: The first is re-remember, the second stage is recover and repair.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: The third is regenerate.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: And the fourth is re-emerge.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so work with my clients, work with organizations centers on taking them through those stages.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: And as we're beginning this podcast and starting a new journey with each other, and I thank you so much for joining me.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it might be best to remember start with square one, but also start with me.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, one of the things that is so incredibly important in my work and in my life is that we not pretend and that if we can't be real, then let's maybe just not be.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: It feels a little useless in terms of the time, energy that we're given on this earth to waste it not being genuine with ourselves and with others.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so the remember phase is an opportunity to get really real with yourself about what happened and what landed you here.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's an opportunity to remember what brought you to the work that you love and that perhaps you are finding challenge and struggle in in the moment, but still is work that you do care about and that you want to be a part of.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: In some ways, it's a way to find your way back.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, the story I want to share with you is sort of how I came to how I came to the moment that I am in now, the moment where I am exploring and considering what is this life, what is this work, and how can I make my contribution in it in a meaningful way.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um so let me take you back to an afternoon in November.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh right after the Thanksgiving holiday.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I don't usually travel for Thanksgiving.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh nothing too big.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it doesn't always feel like the best use of time uh in airports.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I usually try to take a big chunk of time with family during the um December winter break.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I found myself uh that Tuesday after Thanksgiving at my kitchen table, though.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: And my kitchen table had become my office because um my mom had decided, uh we had decided as a family, my mother would move in with me and are with us.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so we were getting the house ready for her and getting herself and her space set up, and that was temporarily going to be in the the space that I was using as an office.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was on screen, logged in as we are, uh as we are even right now, and talking with a colleague.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they are just so what's the word?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um empathetic about how busy they imagine I'm going to be.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's 2025.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: I just started my term as president-elect of the APA, and um that news is really huge on so many levels for so many people in in my ecosystem and the broader ecosystem of our field, and for the institution with whom um or that with with which I was associated, uh, it seemed to be something that they worried about, apparently.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh he tells me that he just doesn't want to burden me uh with having to decide.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember thinking to myself, what burden me with having to decide?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, in what world does that happen?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: One, I've never experienced anyone not being interested in burdening me, and especially in the world of work and the workplace, I've been constantly, you know, burdened, uh, burdened with multiple roles under one title, burdened with microaggressions, burden, burden, burden.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it kind of felt a little strange for that to be how that was framed.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: But in any case, that's what he said.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, hmm, that's interesting.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it it's interesting in juxtaposition to what had just happened the week uh week or so prior, prior to the holiday, uh, in which our board chair had been so um overflowing with just um uh uh congratulations and thankfulness and gratitude.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, my team and I had uh been working on a plan.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the institution was a higher ed institution.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: It, like many higher ed institutions, was struggling uh for a variety of reasons.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: I can go into it, you know, demographic cliff, young people are not being born at the same rate or had not been born at the same rate as they had been in generations previously.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: We knew that there was going to come a time in about the 2020s, 2025-ish, where that was just gonna drop.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: There just weren't gonna be as many 18-year-olds who were going to sign up to go to college and university.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: But other things were going on then too.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, one of the things that happened uh in that time as well is we saw the uplift of influencer culture, a lot of young people seeing um their peers or folks that appear to be their peers online on YouTube, etc., making lots of money and not having to leave the house.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: Fast forward to COVID and what that does to the sense of what's possible and what you can do from home, and the anti-intellectualization, I think that we saw as a cultural um artifact in our world.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and you have you have a number of folks who just do not see higher education, the university, uh, college degrees, graduate degrees as the place where they should spend their time and invest to not only have a career, but really create a life for themselves.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: And within this institution, it was grappling with a lot of things.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I'd been in many of these types of institutions, so talking about it is like just talking about, you know, the climate of higher ed at the time, and I would say continuing to be the case.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this one had been in upwards of a decade of deficit budgeting.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Deficit budgeting means that the institution, the the the CFO, the president, everyone knows that you have more money that you have to put out to run the institution than you have uh coming in in terms of the revenue.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so you pull those monies to close the gap from other areas across the budget.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, over a decade of that, you know, and so it had just become the way that it was.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, one colleague there had said something along the lines of it's kind of like the Titanic.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're steering a big ship, it's not getting there very quickly, so you don't sense the impending doom, but it's on its way and it's just kind of moseying along.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: No one's making any effort to turn the boat.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that was strange.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but here we were.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, here we were.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: But what my team and I were able to do with that was devise a plan, um, brought in some really great folks who were super duper smart, and it's one of those like dream teams where uh you bond together because you have this huge issue, this challenge, and you can actually solve it together.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what we did.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: We created uh a model for uh the turnaround of that institution, and it was deeply possible for the places in which it was just underutilized and underutilizing its resources uh to make money.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: And we could see uh the institution getting to profit within three years, and that's pretty fast.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but again, there were just so many like low-hanging fruit, you may hear that terminology sometimes, and there just really was.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my bench was pretty thin.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: I had a super team, also just energized in the ways that folks could be when you have something that you know is viable and can work, and so we got to it, and we did an amazing job.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: The board chair, the board, they were super thrilled because they hadn't yet, in in many years in over a decade, had an opportunity to imagine the success and the possibility for the success of that institution.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I got that.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing that hit me with the not wanting to burden me was that it was preempting another statement.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: And and this is the one that I'll say to you, and I actually wrote it down to make sure that I, you know, don't forget it, right?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that I get it correctly.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: He told me that the board, uh, the organization weren't sure that they would want me to lead the organization when our the president at the time was set to retire.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I just found this so completely odd.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we had this plan, this possibility of saving the organization, truly.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: And they wanted that.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they could see it too, the horizon was visible, the possibility of getting out of a mess that seemed like the normal state of affairs, the status quo, was finally possible.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: And yet, right, and yet they didn't want me.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that was really, really hurtful to sit with.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that it is not unique to me that I had that experience.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: I know that so many of us in different spaces and places sit in that type of environment, completely relied upon, depended upon, needed, required really, in order for an institution to realize uh it's um the change it needs to make to really move in that direction.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yet something about you, you know.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I I rack my brain about it, right?
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Of the I'm a black woman, the first thing I study black women and work and refusal and leadership development.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: So some of the first things that come to mind for me are okay, well, which which aspects of these?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: And we do this kind of like oppression math, but part of it is about the fact that I'm a woman, the fact that I'm a black woman, the fact that, yes, I am taking the lead in the helm of an institution of an organization that is um huge and and can be really impactful.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it also is for a limited run, and um there are all sorts of ways to work through uh different setups, and we do it all the time within the executive space to ensure that you can keep leaders and also keep their talent and the connections that they bring with that.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, needless to say, that hurt.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: It did, and if I'm honest, it hurt pretty bad because I was already in a position of thinking through, you know, my timeline for higher education.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, in 2019, when I took a position as a dean, I didn't think that I would renew, you know, you do a five-year contract, and I wanted to begin to think about pivoting.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that that happened right at the outset of COVID, and my math got a little wonky because the circumstances in the surrounding environment were so peculiar.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, I knew that higher ed wasn't my forever, and yet I started to fall in love with my team and fall in love with this this project, this way of you know, the challenge, the the puzzle really of fixing something that seemed um irreparable.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like I like that kind of thing.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that was being taken away, and it hurt.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: They wanted me to give my work.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, they just didn't want my leadership.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: The plan, absolutely.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um the team to lead it and to carry it off, but yep.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: They just weren't sure about whether the leadership that I brought to create that plan and uh generate the interest among that team and their interest and the profitability for the org was what they wanted for the organization.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Now, again, fairness and all fairness, crazy climate, post-COVID, demographic, demographic cliff, all the things.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Anti-intellectualism, do we even believe in higher education anymore?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: What good is a college education, right?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um institutions are becoming too woke.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and are they worth the debt?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Are we seeing a balanced um presentation of the kinds of debates and arguments on college campuses and the ways in which they kind of became a hotbed for some of the main um a hotbed for some of the main, you know, um cultural wars.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: I get it.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: And yet there's still something there that just didn't sit right with my spirit.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, with that, I, you know, courteously finished the call.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I am a professional and uh logged off and decided to take a walk.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Now that's where I go free and you know, free my mind and and get a little spaciousness uh by moving my body, but also getting out into nature when I can.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: And at the time I was in the Bay Area of California, so I lived very close to this marina.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I just took a walk because I needed to sort of think about not so much what had just been said, you know, I understood it and categorized it in the appropriate place, uh, not only in my mind, but I think in the logic of society and the world.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've written about these topics for years, uh supported and worked with folks formally and informally for years.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's both intellectual and it's practiced.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: And and so this is my wheelhouse, but it's another thing when it's happening to you, you know?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to take a moment to sort of like let that sit.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Now, side note about me and my family, um, I'm the one who feels things.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, I remember having a pretty like wild breakup, and my mother and aunt uh I later found out had a conversation, an intervention conversation with each other about me because I told them that I didn't want them to try to make it better.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to go ahead and feel what I was feeling and allow myself to experience my broken heart.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: They thought this child.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm like that, you know.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't want to outrun the thing.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: I just kind of want to be with it, you know, um, and allow it to move through me and to pass through me.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: I know there are lessons there.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but also this is the part that makes me human, that I actually do feel and respond to those things.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's what makes all of us human.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I took that walk and I let it settle.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: And what I realized I needed to do was to create a little bit of room to just sort of decide what now?
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, what now?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I decided.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: I went back and I finished up, you know, all the things that I needed to make available to those folks.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: I um, you know, every page, every model uh that they needed to see in terms of its profitability, how to set up the teams, everything, every step.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then I uh handed it over to them and shared with them how to sort of work it through, you know, what they would need to do.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then I left.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, I I wasn't let go.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I had some autonomy here, one might say.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: There's another kind of force out that we see happening in the world of work right now, and we'll talk about it.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, for all intent and purpose, I I walked away, you know, and that is that is a different position.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's still my choice.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I do think that having some sense of agency in here matters.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: It does, you know, those who were told um all through the the the winter and the spring of 2025 that you lost your job, you know, get your banker's box and put all your stuff in it and and walk out, that's more um shocking just because they walked in with one set of beliefs and they walked out with another, and it was within a very quick succession.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, that simply just isn't fair and it's it's kind of um cruel.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I do know that having a choice when among the 600,000 black women, I know that number has increased uh a bit more, but there have been, you know, we've been quoting again and again this notion of the 600,000 black women pushed out of the American workforce, and to know that I was among one of them.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Again, by choice in a way, but some would argue whether or not that was truly a choice of mine, or if, you know, I was being presented with an offer that I should absolutely refuse.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's sort of how I see it.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: But here's what I understood too, that, and where I felt blessed.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I I saw this quote by Oprah the other day to say that, you know, gratitude is a tool and is a is a uh a hack most valuable when you are at your lowest, not when everything is great and you can spout off a thousand things that you're grateful for, but when you actually are feeling a lowness that needs you to remind, that needs to remind you, and needs you to be reminded rather that you're not without anything.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: You do have something.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I needed it about that time because there was a lot of shift and changing and a lot of things that were uncertain.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was grateful, and I continue to be because what I had spent over 20 years developing and leadership development for young people and adults, and really the translation of that into professional spaces and for for folks who are navigating leadership and compromised and contradicting situations really helped me to understand that while this was happening and certainly happening to me, it wasn't necessarily about anything that I did, anything about me, anything about who I was or am that was wrong.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it was one of the pieces that I wanted to share over and over again and have done on social media feeds with those who are bearing witness to their own push out and departure uh from viable work and the livable um circumstances and who feel even more stressed about their financial situation, but also how they are to sort of bring their gift and their calling to the world when they are so unfairly dismissed from it.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: So what I'll say here is that whether you're pushed out or you walked out, or whether the door closed too close on you on your way out, which is a lot, I think, how a lot of people have felt, um, there is a weight of realizing that the ground was never really solid beneath you.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um and is it certainly continues to be um uh pretty uh unsolid now.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: And this episode and this this podcast, this conversations, the work we're gonna do here is for you.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um I have been building it for a while, uh deciding to go back into the podcast space.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I said yes to this as a point of pivot, as a way of sharing what I know, some of the teachings and the work that I have, you know, have benefited from and that have allowed me to keep a sense of my own personhood and selfhood in the midst of all of the things that are changing around me and you that we actually don't have the ability to control uh but can move through.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: So they wanted my work, they just didn't want my leadership.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, again, as a leadership scholar in the area of psychology, the um you know, it kind of smacks you in the face.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I I felt embarrassed actually, you know, it almost made me feel that perhaps.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: My work was fraudulent, that perhaps there was something that I just wasn't quite getting.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then I had to remember myself and also remember my work and the work that uplifts my work and that is the foundation for it.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: But this wasn't just personal to me.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: The numbers say it more precisely than I ever could, and certainly do give more credence to what I felt personally.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: The IWPR, which is the Institute for Women's Policy Research, found that around 600,000 black women were sidelined from work since the start of 2025.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I was among that number.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: At the worst point last summer, black women were more than half of all the women's job losses while being only one in seven women in the workforce.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: So those numbers are quite disparate.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's not as if we are the predominant, but we were losing way more jobs than many of the other women who were actively involved in the workforce.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: This was seen as and was documented as the sharpest single drop, uh single-year drop in black women's employment in over 25 years, a quarter of a century.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what's fundamental here is that, especially with the history of enslavement in this country, black women's labor and work is something that is sort of like synonymous with uh the workforce.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: And the idea that we saw this droppage shows uh and I think demonstrates the sort of intentionality of some of those shifts and changes that happen.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I wanted us to widen, and I want us to widen the lens a bit more because the the data doesn't say that these jobs are moved to someone else.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, some of the narrative around cultural wars and getting people to hate each other for different reasons would suggest, like, well, who took black women's jobs?
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: The reality is that those jobs were just loss.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: They weren't replaced, they weren't transferred to someone else.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't that these jobs were just taken from black women and given to white men.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, they weren't handed to white men.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: White men still are pretty broadly displaced in the workforce.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's a false dichotomy and a false competition.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: And we might want to ask ourselves, who benefits with us fighting amongst ourselves in this way?
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh what happened there happens, I think, in a lot of places.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: One, we do know that there was the dismantling of equity infrastructure, not only in the federal government, but across many industries that saw some of the pushback on affirmative action uh legislation in our Supreme Courts and the Supreme Court rulings given that permission.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: We also know that the federal government just had this pushback and you know, you know, in the spirit of efficiency, right?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Many offices and organ and within the federal government within education, but those even focused on equity got doged.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so they're just gone.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so there's that.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: But there's also the thing that happens when we sometimes are cutting workforce, we're doing a reduction in force and a RIF.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: We've I think now become pretty uh familiar with that language.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the RIF happens, and so some of the ways that employers and managers, and I have had to do it too, and I've been looking at a budget that was overblown, is that if we had a retirement from our faculty uh or from maybe one of our staff, we might refigure out or re-recalibrate how we think about the task and the role uh and reassign maybe with the pay bump and a new title and shift things around to spread a particular piece of work across many more employees in the association or the organization.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: So these are ways in which then we don't have to replace a whole person with the benefits and the other uh costs that go along with that in terms of doing a search or the, you know, all the things that go along with that, because you do have people in-house.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: But needless to say, what that does mean is that you do have folks who can be a bit overextended in in the workforce as well as they're doing more with for a little bit, you know, for a little bit more, but certainly not with as much as they would prefer.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think what these numbers show us, though, is that you know who goes first, right?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: And what we know is that at least in this iteration, it was black women who went first.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: But first is not the same as the only.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's really important for us to appreciate.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, those who are pushed out first certainly are an indicator.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so many have been talking about the canary and the coal mine and the miners canary.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: Guinea and Torres uh talk about the idea that the most vulnerable uh struggling isn't a niche concern, um, it's rather a diagnosis that those who are experiencing the pain point within a system are really giving us a framework for thinking about what may be happening in that system.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so what happened to black women is certainly a preview for others.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what we've come to sort of see borne out.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, those uh in positions who are um, you know, pushing against a settled story uh in this country around who belongs at the table, you know, those whose presence itself is representative of pushing back on that narrative, of uh who gets to be at tables and make decisions, and those who are pushing a justice uh framework or orientation, wanting equity and diversity, um also, you know, are those who were some of the first to go.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: And many of them were black women, but not only.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, power gets frightened and feeling as if it's losing its grip, these are some of the maneuvers that are engaged.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that we see ourselves and are witnessing a situation in which that pushback, um, that push against the threat to one's status, not economic anxiety, but the idea of who has power in the society is a large motivator for what we have seen.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think black women are representative of being at the sharpest intersection of race and gender and class in the country to really call to question, call to the question, you know, what is the society that people are comfortable with?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that we are seeing over and again that they simply were not comfortable.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: So there's that piece, right?
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: Just the the shortages and the and the reduction and the force and all of that.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: Hey there.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: I hope that you all are enjoying this episode.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I also wanted to just take a quick moment to remind you that there are multiple ways for you to engage some of the work that we have happening at the well.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we have this wonderful podcast and this community that we're growing a newsletter as well.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: But some people are looking for something a little bit more, some direct work and service with me.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that can happen in one-to-one coaching, coaching with your institution or your organization.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so if there are ways in which you'd like to dive a little bit deeper, please feel free to find the link below in our show notes.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: You can click on to book a discovery call and we can talk through a path that's right for you and your organization.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: As always, you are welcome at the well, and we always want you to be well so that you can lead well.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to figure out the next step alone.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: We're right here with you, and we will be here together.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: But there's another thing happening here too, and it's really important for us to name, and that is this second wave, which is around artificial intelligence and automation.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it does not care about race or gender.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: It is just looking for patterns and recognizing them and delivering those back to us.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: And this now, I think, this move toward AI is really bringing, I think, the universal basic income conversation back up to the fore because while it used to sound sort of niche or abstract uh in uh the uh you know presidential and governorship debates, I remember a number of folks uh coming out of California who had a framework and a thought around that.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's not so abstract anymore.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what do you do when you have a society which has required people to define themselves by their work, now no longer having work of that type or sort available for them to do that work?
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we could say, well, they just can't find a job, that's what happens, but we're also then naming that if we're connecting work with one's ability to meet, satisfy, and deliver on their basic needs for themselves and their families, are we now saying that if people can't work, then they can't eat, they shouldn't have shelter or place to live and stay?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: What does it mean to think about the human experience and what is the role of our society and being responsive to that?
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's huge here.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um Melissa Harris Perry is someone who I have loved and whose work really speaks to the nature of this sort of being in situations and contexts that are not built for you and trying to navigate a world that strips away a whole grammar of what it means for you to belong.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: She talked about the uh the crooked room and that coming out of some social psychology research, uh, naming that if the room is crooked, there's only way for you to stand straight up is to actually become crooked in it.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's one of the elements that you know we we've noted, uh, and she's noted in her work that black women experience, but I would argue that the experience of black women is now being more widely shared with the broader public.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't wish it on anyone, but there is a certain um appreciation for for an understanding of that positionality, and perhaps it might uh help us to think more broadly about the way we frame our society and the policies therein.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I know that was a lot.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um I do.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're feeling tired right now, I want you to really hear me.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh part of it is that these things are tiring.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: If you have been low, if you've been feeling uh feelings of inadequacy or worry and anxiety of what you're going to do, what your family is going to do.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: These things are real.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the reasons why I've created the well is for us to have those conversations, not in pithy sound bites, but for real.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, part of that too is, you know, just at the point when many of us need the full faculty of our creativity and our generativity, we feel depleted and exhausted by systems that have sort of chewed us up and spit us out.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that's just simply not fair, but it is happening.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: And also caring, carrying what that work has done to us and what it has meant to do it, and at the same time carrying the loss of it as well.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: It almost feels as if in some way, and I know that many folks are naming that number, the 600,000, the 600,000, but many aren't.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it actually hasn't gotten the attention that one would expect.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's almost like being present at a funeral, um, but no one's acknowledging the death.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that especially in a society that runs on one's ability to uh be gainfully employed and meaningfully engaged in work, this this is a tragedy and a problem on a larger scale for us to think about.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: More than anything, and what I hope that you are able to connect with is that there is a story here where the loss of these things are something that you are responsible for or that you brought on to yourself.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I just, you know, I need to say, as a psychologist and as a human being and a person with a heart, that it is absolutely not your fault.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: So remember, we're back at remember, right?
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna take you back into this story and tell you about what I did and why.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I took the walk around the marina, came back, finished things up, um, finished things up over a couple of weeks.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, gave notice, talked the plan through it, folks, did all the things.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: And some will ask, like, well, why did you finish that plan?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like they treated you so horribly, Wendy.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to sit with that because they're, you know, I'm not a petty person.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: I just I'm not.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh my my friends will tell you that sometimes they want to get that out of me, and I just don't, it's it doesn't run too deep.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: But this is what leadership is about, actually, you know, and in my heart of hearts and in and and how I move and navigate in the world, I am a leader.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: I've been for a very long time.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: One of the reasons why I started leadership work with girls is because I understood that young girls have leadership capacity and are actively leading in their lives, even if they're not being told that that's what it was.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to be one of the adults that let them know that that's what was happening for them.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me in this space, while I wasn't going to allow myself to be treated that way, my leaving without preparing a way for others to make their way through could have had a much more detrimental effect on them.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and I was very mindful that while I would not allow myself to be subjected to that, I didn't want to place those who had put their trust in me over years to feel abandoned.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it was then the care that I had and my ethical, I think, frame and guide around what would be best and most appropriate for the whole that inspired that.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: I knew that if we were able to share and provide this plan, if they were able to carry it off, that that would save people stress, it would save their jobs, and that's a very real concern.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that just because I was going to walk away from my work didn't mean that I needed to create the conditions for which there would be no work for anybody else.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: For me, that would have been just, you know, maybe not the best show of my own leadership in that space.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: And the fact is, is that the plan was good, you know, the plan was good.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I I am such a puzzle solver, and I loved and appreciated being in the position to come up with a solution for this thing.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like it mattered to me.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I handed that over and walked away with firm clarity in my own dignity and integrity that I didn't allow how someone was treating me to bring out the worst in me.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: More so I just allowed them to be who they were, and they can grapple with that with whoever and wherever they need to do that.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um I am a spiritual woman, so I do believe that there are things that you have to work out in other places that have nothing to do with me.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so I release you to it.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I have to say it is one of the most honest things I have ever done as a leader, um, and that I am proud of, even though it was hurtful.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I know that there are many of you out there who can relate to that sentiment that something could be difficult and at the same time um give you an opportunity to see yourself in a light that makes you very much aware of who you really are.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that is it.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things that I will say for many of you, particularly that are grappling with that loss, is to always remember that, you know, and what I remembered and what I know uh about myself and I share with you is that there is an architecture inside of me, this brain, this heart, this spirit that I lent to an institution, but is not of that institution.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: And when I walk out the door, it comes with me.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it is just a role, it is just a job.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: We do need to work for those of us who need to work.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the over-identification with it and getting caught up in the drama of it can do us more harm than good.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: So three things I want us to leave with and to be thinking about one is just to develop the consciousness of you know refusing to metabolize or to digest the structural event, the thing that happened as something that is about you that should evoke shame about you.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: What I understood is that my stain would have made me sick.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: And um I just have to value myself more than that.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is why I departed.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I understood that it was a it was a very wrong thing that was happening, and my orientation spiritually is that that was not meant for me.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was time for me to go.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think stewardship is the second thing that I want to undercur here, uh, and and just to really reinforce the notion of, you know, our work is, you know, not only about what we're doing, but how we're doing it, how we stay whole for ourselves, but also how we are able to hold the people who are leaning on us.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: For me, that was my team.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: That was the community of colleagues that I built in within that or so that organization, as well as around it.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's my family, you know.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: That that is all the folks who are in this space with us together.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I've loved the uh articulation of mutual aid through the COVID conversation, and I hope that it continues because there is no way for us to make it through any of these challenging times than with each other.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then finally remembering, you know, your worth, my worth, it is never in a title and it's never in the job or the role.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: It is perhaps found in some of the meaningful work that we're able to do, but that is because it is more largely reflected on our ability to respond to a calling on us and and what we know is is critical and important in our world in here.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I will offer.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I share with you.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um so for every episode of the well, I do give homework.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I have been uh doing a lot of work with individuals and organizations, and um, as someone who's worked in the higher ed space, um, I've always sort of cringed at the idea that I give all of this uh, you know, great instruction and preparation and teaching to folks and they have this paywall.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the beautiful things about a podcast is we don't have to have the paywall.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: I can just give that.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so for those of you who are engaged and tuned in and want to sort of be inside of a practice and an experience with me here, um, I'll offer you this assignment that you can uh engage in.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: We'll put it in the show notes that if you aren't able to capture it, you you can um get to it later.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um and this is uh an assignment for the remember stage and for you to not only look back but to also find your way forward.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: So there's two parts.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: Part one is to name what this season has cost you, like really taking accounting of that specifically, right?
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like what has happened.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes that's financial, uh, but as I've mentioned before, the cost also could have been health-wise to the body uh in particular.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and and and speak to that.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, write it down.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: Naming isn't wallowing, it's really helping to make it more concrete.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes uh I find that once I put something down in a concrete way in terms of writing it down, it's not as big as it fills in my head and in my mind.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh there's there's something there for you in that space.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: Part two of this assignment, though, is to name your architecture.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, my mind, body, spirit walks out uh of that of that space, and the architecture of who I am and what I bring to any pieces of the work that I do is wrapped up in this, and I will always have this, and you will always have that.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so name it.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: What is your architecture?
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: List the skills, the knowledge, the wisdom that you have gathered over the years that you brought to that organization, and also that you learned and will take away.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: Even the way you take it away comes in the package and with the framework and the lens that you bring to it, and so it is uniquely yours.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: And how then will you utilize that when you're ready to build what you want, whether that is going into another situation, how you articulate and frame what you could bring to a new organization or institution, or how you might bring it to your own pivot uh into new ways of thinking entrepreneurially.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: It has been really exciting for me myself to do that and to think about what it looks like to work as hard for myself as I do for others and quite rewarding.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to keep both of these lists and really focus on the architecture if you can, because that's that's the list that's gonna carry you through the season and also into your next your next chapter.
• 42:49
  unknown: Okay.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna end this session like we will all of them, which is with a uh renewal practice to close us out.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I want you to set those lists down and come to a place of stillness similar to where we began.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: Take in a few breaths.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: During this conversation, I know I talk fast and I've talked about a lot of heavy things.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to try to let those things go, try to set them down, let the chair, the floor, whatever is holding you up, let it hold you up, but let yourself be held.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: And in that space too, allow your breaths to deepen, to lengthen.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: Not in a forced way, but just in a way that feels more replenishing and that it's contributing back to you.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to in this moment bring to mind the version of you from before.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: Not to grieve them, but to thank them.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: They are what got you here and they are what built the architecture that you walk away with.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: Thank them.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would love for you to bring to mind the version of you right here, right now.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you were pushed or you chose, or maybe you're in the in-between space.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe there has been no boundary firmly crossed just yet.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: Knowing that that in-between is actually fertile ground with information for you, and try to try to access it for yourself.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: Pay attention.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I want you to thank them for showing up and continuing to be here with you.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: They have not left you, but they are right here with you.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that truly is a blessing.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: And with one deep and full, full breath, I want you to breathe out, releasing into the one who is here now appreciatively.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: And when you're ready, open your eyes, come back to the room.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: Let yourself be present.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: Friends, that is where I am going to leave you today.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: I want to thank you for gathering with me at the well.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: I hope that you found something here that can sustain you and support you.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: The well is here for all of us.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: We are not alone.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for what you're carrying, for what you need to lay down for a bit, just know that you have company and we are going to navigate together.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I will be back real soon.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: But until then, remember your architecture and remember to always be well.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: Bye now.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for listening.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: I hope this message found you in a good place and left you even better and with something that you can use in your work this week.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: If you'd like to learn more about the well and the work that we do, please visit drwendywilliams.com.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: W-e-n-d-i, drwendywilliams.com, and also follow me on Instagram, on LinkedIn, at drwendywilliams.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to hear from you.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: And please also do like and subscribe to this podcast and share a review.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: If you're finding something of value, please write us a review and also pass on the good work with others.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we know that there are many people who are trying to lead well in this time, and we want to make sure to broaden and to grow our community, and you are the number one way to help us to do that.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the well, and we'll see you next time.