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How Curiosity Works · Stuff You Should Know

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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you should know
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Speaker 1: from House Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to
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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with me as always is
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Speaker 1: Charles W. Chuck Ryant. What did you just say? I
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Speaker 1: think that came through, did it, Jerry? Well, we'll find
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Speaker 1: out eventually. But wait a minute. Let's we got a
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Speaker 1: you know you like us. If you do, and if
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Speaker 1: you don't, just keep it to yourself. Nice Chuck. Thanks.
1:54
Speaker 1: How's it going, Chuck? It's going harried and good? Is
1:58
Speaker 1: that you're about to go to l A max Fun
2:02
Speaker 1: Con technically Lake Arrowhead l A first for a couple
2:06
Speaker 1: of days, so then Maximum Con. That's right. Yeah, I'm
2:08
Speaker 1: excited for you. Yeah, you're going to hang out with
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Speaker 1: um jesse Esteemed, head of the Podcasting Division of the World,
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Speaker 1: head of Maximum Fun dot Org, in the voice of
2:21
Speaker 1: the Sound of Young America, and Jordan jesse Go, among others.
2:24
Speaker 1: To do to is a young mogul. But I think
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Speaker 1: my title that I just gave him, I think the
2:30
Speaker 1: title I just gave him he'd prefer which is what
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Speaker 1: ahead of the podcasting division of the world. I didn't
2:37
Speaker 1: even hear that. Sorry, his buddy and ours Hodgeman is
2:40
Speaker 1: going to be there. Actually, the part of Josh Clark
2:43
Speaker 1: at this weekend will be played by John Hodgming. That's
2:46
Speaker 1: gonna be pretty cool, totally. You guys are doing trip together. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: I'm a little nervous. Oh, Chuck, you're gonna knock it
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Speaker 1: out of the Come on, hey, guess who's there now?
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Speaker 1: I do know you want me to? Yeah, Andy Rick
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Speaker 1: the Yes, my all time heroes. Yeah, that's gonna be
3:01
Speaker 1: pretty cool. And tell him I said, I can ask
3:05
Speaker 1: for some sidekick advice, dude, I'm just kidding. All right. Well,
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Speaker 1: we'll probably edit out that with anyway, So having lunch
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Speaker 1: tomorrow with our buddy Luke Ryan, tell him I said,
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Speaker 1: high on the Paramount Pictures lot. Do you know who's
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Speaker 1: losing her mind right now? Katie M, Katie M beautiful?
3:26
Speaker 1: You already forgot good enough? Let's get started, shall we? Chuck? Great? Okay, Chuck,
3:32
Speaker 1: I have a little bit of a story for you. Okay.
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Speaker 1: I don't remember when I was looking for it, but
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Speaker 1: at some point in time, it occurred to me. I
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Speaker 1: had no idea where the origin of the phrase curiosity
3:44
Speaker 1: killed the cat came from. Right, it's written on my page.
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Speaker 1: What do you have? Oh? I don't have the origin.
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Speaker 1: I just thought, you know, well, I killed the cat,
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Speaker 1: so it couldn't be good. You wrote that down. Oh
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Speaker 1: I didn't write that down. You had a note to
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Speaker 1: remember that. I'm telling you, I went the wrong way
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Speaker 1: to get here to work today, so I'll handle this. Um.
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Speaker 1: I went and onto the internet with a capital eye,
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Speaker 1: and I found that. Um. I found that it was
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Speaker 1: attributed to a playwright named Ben Johnson, right, um. And
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Speaker 1: he wrote a play in you mean old Ben Johnson
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Speaker 1: that lives out Yeah, the the immortal Ben Johnson, the
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Speaker 1: one who just won't die. Yeah, okay, Um, his play
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Speaker 1: every Man in his humor with a you. So you
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Speaker 1: know he's like British. Uh. He is the quote helter skelter,
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Speaker 1: hang sorrow, Carol kill a cat, uptails all and a
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Speaker 1: loose for the hangman whatever that means. Right, but he's
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Speaker 1: got Carol kill a cat, meaning like worry will kill
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Speaker 1: a cat, which is weird because this is associated with
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Speaker 1: later on worry and curiosity are associated for a little while. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: finally we get to eight right exactly four three hundred
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Speaker 1: years later, and the first Ben Johnson still around, Old
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Speaker 1: Ben Johnson, he's he's more secluded than ever. We finally
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Speaker 1: get to um the Galveston Daily News, right four hundred
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Speaker 1: years later. Isn't that weird? Three hundred years later. I
5:17
Speaker 1: don't know why I can't subtract and come up with
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Speaker 1: the right number anyway, In the Galveston Daily News, the
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Speaker 1: first time it appears in print, the proverb it is
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Speaker 1: once said that curiosity killed the Thomas cat. They couldn't
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Speaker 1: just say it like the right way. But Thomas cat
5:35
Speaker 1: is a Tom cat, like Tom and Jerry. But we've
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Speaker 1: had it ever since then. Did you know that I
5:42
Speaker 1: had no back then they called it the Thomas cat.
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Speaker 1: That well, that was a new thing you just learned.
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Speaker 1: But the fact that I went and looked for that
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Speaker 1: was really no gratification whatsoever. There's nothing offered. No one
5:53
Speaker 1: was paying me to go look it up. Is an
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Speaker 1: example of curiosity. True, it was also part of your
5:59
Speaker 1: job where you get paid to do. But I know
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Speaker 1: what you mean. I don't think it worked into any
6:05
Speaker 1: of the stuff I wrote so we're we I did
6:08
Speaker 1: you You've just let the cat out of the bag?
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Speaker 1: That um cat? Uh that. I was asked to write
6:16
Speaker 1: how Curiosity works in part because we have a TV
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Speaker 1: show coming up here in the Discovery Family eventually called
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Speaker 1: um Curiosity. It's gonna be huge when it happens. I
6:26
Speaker 1: think it's coming out this summer, answering a lot of
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Speaker 1: the just really cool questions of life and beyond. And then, um,
6:33
Speaker 1: there's a website that's already running curiosity dot com. Yeah,
6:37
Speaker 1: we right for that, son too. Um, it's very cool.
6:40
Speaker 1: It's worth checking out. Um. But I was asked when
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Speaker 1: all this was going on to write how Curiosity works,
6:45
Speaker 1: and I was like, it's not going to be that great,
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Speaker 1: And I wrote it, researched it and wrote it, and
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Speaker 1: I thought this is really great worth podcasting on. Absolutely agreed, sir,
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Speaker 1: So Chuck, Um, have you ever landed an assignment like that?
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Speaker 1: What that you thought it wasn't gonna be great and
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Speaker 1: then you ended up being proud of it? Yes, not
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Speaker 1: even proud of it, is like, this is not going
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Speaker 1: to be that interesting of an assignment and it turned
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Speaker 1: out to be good. Like two longs, one heart, right,
7:11
Speaker 1: right right, Wow, you really are not showing up. I'm here,
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Speaker 1: I'm right here. All right, Well, Chuck, let's talk about curiosity. Well,
7:20
Speaker 1: what you pointed out, which I thought was kind of neat,
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Speaker 1: was that it killed the cat theoretically, so the cat
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Speaker 1: wouldn't have done well evolutionarily speaking. So that's something that
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Speaker 1: sort of flies in the face curiosity as a whole
7:31
Speaker 1: sort of flies in the face of evolution. Because bring
7:35
Speaker 1: back Tuk Talk. He's making another appearance. Back in the day.
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Speaker 1: Tuk Talk gets a little curious about what's in the
7:40
Speaker 1: cave and talk Talk ends up with a slashed chest
7:44
Speaker 1: from a Yeah, cave bear or the clan of the
7:48
Speaker 1: cave bear. Yeah, And so tuk Tuk is not around,
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Speaker 1: he doesn't reproduce, so his his offspring won't live on
7:55
Speaker 1: to be more curious. So still humans are curious beyond
7:59
Speaker 1: that greed. Take that, Darwin. Yeah, and um, that's kind
8:02
Speaker 1: of that's a I guess that probably forms the basis
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Speaker 1: of why we don't really understand curiosity because we can't
8:10
Speaker 1: explain that, and we can't explain that because we don't
8:13
Speaker 1: understand it, and we don't understand it because we can't
8:15
Speaker 1: explain it, which is to me seems incredibly appropriate. Like,
8:20
Speaker 1: think about it. So we need as humans, right, very
8:23
Speaker 1: limited stuff. We need a certain amount of water, Um,
8:28
Speaker 1: we need a certain amount of food, and we need shelter,
8:31
Speaker 1: and then as a species, we have to reproduce. Right, Yeah,
8:35
Speaker 1: that's it, that's all we need. We don't need your
8:37
Speaker 1: modest mouse t shirts, your last chance garage hats um. Frankly,
8:43
Speaker 1: your facial hair is the ted superfluous. Really, it's not necessary.
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Speaker 1: It's not really doing anything for your survival, not for
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Speaker 1: my survival. But if you look around, Chuck, I mean, like,
8:53
Speaker 1: we've got some pretty great stuff going on that enhances
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Speaker 1: our existence that we don't need. So one of the
9:00
Speaker 1: well a number of the things that we have that
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Speaker 1: have enhanced our existence are the result of curiosity, right,
9:06
Speaker 1: like um, penicillin, Alexander Fleming, Sure right, he said what
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Speaker 1: exactly is growing in this petrie dish here? And investigated
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Speaker 1: it and found out that you could save millions and
9:18
Speaker 1: billions of lives with it? Right? Yeah, I would say many,
9:21
Speaker 1: if not most, of the big advancements we've made have
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Speaker 1: been because of an initial spark of curiosity at least.
9:28
Speaker 1: But I would even go back to counter sir that
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Speaker 1: even like survival does in fact depending on curiosity to
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Speaker 1: a certain degree, because maybe if Tuck Tuck doesn't go
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Speaker 1: see what's on the other side of that mountain, he
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Speaker 1: doesn't find the rich fields of wildebeest to hunt and
9:45
Speaker 1: his family starving. That is very, very good point, Chuck,
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Speaker 1: And I think he revealed something, um that that forms
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Speaker 1: the basis of curiosity. Um. If for some reason, say
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Speaker 1: he was afraid of finding out what was over the mountain,
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Speaker 1: he would never go. Curiosity exists in antithesis of fear.
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Speaker 1: They're actually counterproductive to one another. Yeah. I thought that
10:07
Speaker 1: was a good point. Yeah, well now mine, Well you
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Speaker 1: got it from somewhere. No, there's a whole field of
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Speaker 1: research called curiosity research. There's a guy named George Lowenstein
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Speaker 1: who I quote pretty early on in the um in
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Speaker 1: the article basically saying like, whether you understand curiosity or not,
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Speaker 1: it just try to turn off the television set towards
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Speaker 1: the end of a close football game. Can't do it
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Speaker 1: writing there you are in the world. So what Lowenstein
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Speaker 1: was pointing out is that there's probably a biologic basis
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Speaker 1: to curiosity, and that suggests that it's a drive, right, Yeah.
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Speaker 1: And what I like about this, and we'll you'll see
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Speaker 1: consistently throughout this podcast, is that curiosity isn't one thing
10:50
Speaker 1: because it's sort of esoteric, but it's also a little
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Speaker 1: like everything you mentioned in here is it's a little
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Speaker 1: bit of both. I think starting with within us or
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Speaker 1: without us, is something exists inside us or something outside
11:03
Speaker 1: acting upon us. That's that's the big question. And I
11:06
Speaker 1: think it also it depends on the situation too, as
11:09
Speaker 1: we'll see. But there there's two rival explanations as it
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Speaker 1: stands now for curiosity, and one is that it's within us,
11:16
Speaker 1: and one is that it's without us. So like within
11:19
Speaker 1: us as drive theory, right, you like being hungry. It's
11:22
Speaker 1: exactly right. We have a hunger for um, basically superfluous information,
11:27
Speaker 1: stuff that we don't need to survive right now, and
11:30
Speaker 1: so we go seek it out in the form of
11:33
Speaker 1: learning a new language or um crossword puzzles. But you
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Speaker 1: like the inner drive to this similarity to regular hunger
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Speaker 1: and eating and satisfying that hunger as well. Right, it's
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Speaker 1: this innate thing within us that we just have to satisfy. Okay,
11:46
Speaker 1: that's drive theory. Then, there's another theory that says, no,
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Speaker 1: it's a pretty much a response like say an emotion,
11:54
Speaker 1: right or pain to an external stimulus. Objects specific in
12:00
Speaker 1: congruity is that what it's called. Well, it's it's saying
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Speaker 1: that that curiosity is objects specific, and it's called incongruity theory. Right.
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Speaker 1: So in congruity theory says that there is a certain
12:11
Speaker 1: order that we can expect to the universe, and when
12:14
Speaker 1: we notice something that is outside of that order, then
12:19
Speaker 1: we are forced to investigate it. We can't resist investigating it.
12:23
Speaker 1: But that's in reaction to something outside of us. Yeah,
12:27
Speaker 1: but I thought everyone was like this, but it's just
12:29
Speaker 1: not true. No, it's definitely not And one example you
12:32
Speaker 1: use was why is that truck parked across the street
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Speaker 1: at two am? That big delivery truck. I would always
12:40
Speaker 1: be curious about that, but I guess some people would
12:42
Speaker 1: just see that and not think anything about it. Well,
12:44
Speaker 1: I think with with the you're you're, it's absolutely true.
12:47
Speaker 1: But there may be something that um captures your curiosity
12:51
Speaker 1: or your attention that wouldn't somebody else, Or somebody might
12:55
Speaker 1: be curious about that picture of Nikola Tesla next to
12:59
Speaker 1: you that just don't look at it, you know, but
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Speaker 1: that could be because you're curiosity statiated about it. So
13:05
Speaker 1: those are the two big rival theories, drive theory and
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Speaker 1: incongruity theory, right, And also to go a little further
13:10
Speaker 1: on incongruity theory, so say, um, all of a sudden,
13:15
Speaker 1: you noticed that a pencil was just kind of moving
13:18
Speaker 1: slowly across the desk in front of you. At the
13:22
Speaker 1: very least you would jump up and then look, But
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Speaker 1: there's no way you're not looking. I'm looking around right immediately. Okay,
13:30
Speaker 1: So that's that's external, that's a response to the universe.
13:34
Speaker 1: But the problem is that both of these UM theories,
13:38
Speaker 1: uh do they have a big hole in one one
13:41
Speaker 1: fills the other's big hole. So you put them together
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Speaker 1: and um, you've got maybe a whole unified theory of curiosity.
13:51
Speaker 1: But well, yeah, I'm close. It's probably close. But so, um,
13:56
Speaker 1: the big hole for UM for incongrety pny theory is,
14:02
Speaker 1: you know, crossword puzzles aren't an example of disorder in
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Speaker 1: our universe. You know, why would somebody go out and
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Speaker 1: seek it? Drive theory? I can't think of there there
14:11
Speaker 1: it's big hole. But there's there's a there's a hole
14:14
Speaker 1: there and I can't remember it. But it's from my
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Speaker 1: money drive theories, the more correct of the two curious last.
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Speaker 1: So there's a further way to subdivide curiosity, um beyond
14:28
Speaker 1: these theories, and this is slightly more um, slightly less theoretical,
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Speaker 1: and more observational. Yeah, this is why I think we
14:35
Speaker 1: studied this in school. I remember studying this a little bit. Okay,
14:38
Speaker 1: we'll take it away, not in depth, but because it
14:41
Speaker 1: was high school. But state and trade those are the
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Speaker 1: classifications of the two types of curiosity and um they
14:49
Speaker 1: describe how we engage in curious behavior. So state curiosity
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Speaker 1: would be the pencil moving on its own and being
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Speaker 1: curious about that. It's basically by state they mean, don't
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Speaker 1: they mean like circumstantial, almost situational, like there's something going
15:05
Speaker 1: on right then it's it's fleeting and it could be
15:09
Speaker 1: anything from like that truck or that pencil to standing
15:13
Speaker 1: at a funeral and thinking about death. Yeah, but if
15:16
Speaker 1: you're just thinking about death in the afterlife, that's trade curiosity, right,
15:21
Speaker 1: unless you're at the funeral, yes, right, yeah, it depends
15:25
Speaker 1: like um. So with with trade curiosity, remember when we
15:30
Speaker 1: talked about happiness in that one audio book. Yeah. Yeah,
15:34
Speaker 1: so I remember state versus trade. So there's state happiness
15:37
Speaker 1: like winning the lottery, but you always went back to
15:39
Speaker 1: your baseline. This applies very much so to the same
15:42
Speaker 1: to curiosity as well. That's pretty cool. Yeah. Um, So
15:46
Speaker 1: with with state curiosity, it's situational. With trade curiosity, it's
15:49
Speaker 1: like your whole life, say um Ernest Becker he he
15:54
Speaker 1: would have been traite curious about death. Yeah, because he
15:59
Speaker 1: thought about it outside of funerals. He thought about it
16:02
Speaker 1: a lot, and because it was his life's work. You
16:04
Speaker 1: could make the you can make the case that he
16:07
Speaker 1: had a depth of trade curiosity for death, which is
16:11
Speaker 1: a further subcategorization of curiosity, right right, And then you
16:15
Speaker 1: know the trade obviously is just you're probably born curious.
16:19
Speaker 1: You have a lifelong interest just for the sake of
16:21
Speaker 1: learning things. But you also um tag on here that
16:25
Speaker 1: it is also linked to all kinds of things like
16:28
Speaker 1: arson and fearlessness and experimentation with drugs, So there's a
16:32
Speaker 1: downside of that. Whereas the first state curiosity is a
16:36
Speaker 1: little more related to reward, even though they both can
16:39
Speaker 1: lead to reward, like um, excitement, or a sense of stacy, assaciation, stay, statiaty, satiaty, yeah, saciousness. Um,
16:51
Speaker 1: I'm curious with the correct pronunciation and I'm not um
16:56
Speaker 1: with what you were saying though with with with trade
16:59
Speaker 1: curiosity that chuck the fact you know that does have
17:01
Speaker 1: a dark side to it. Um. Overall, it's generally viewed.
17:06
Speaker 1: It is a very very positive thing, highly encouraged. Um,
17:10
Speaker 1: except for this one period in the West when curiosity
17:14
Speaker 1: was reviled during the Middle Ages St Augustine, Saint Augustine
17:18
Speaker 1: and his Confessions, and I think like three nine two
17:20
Speaker 1: fun Killer basically said like God has a special place
17:24
Speaker 1: in hell for the curious, because um, I think that
17:28
Speaker 1: was pretty much the quote don't ask you many questions?
17:31
Speaker 1: Well be yeah, don't don't question things, and um it
17:36
Speaker 1: detracts from the time that you have to think about
17:39
Speaker 1: God and your relationship with God and how great God
17:42
Speaker 1: is and um. That's so this is a very brief
17:46
Speaker 1: period of time where curiosity was downplayed or denounced or whatever. Otherwise,
17:51
Speaker 1: it's encouraged for the most part very much. You want
17:53
Speaker 1: your kids to be curious, You want your parents and
17:56
Speaker 1: grandparents to still be curious. You know, the whole cycle
17:58
Speaker 1: of life thing, because I know you linked you found
18:01
Speaker 1: one study of Alzheimer's patients who they display a very
18:05
Speaker 1: low level of curiosity, and uh, that's sad. The older
18:09
Speaker 1: you can keep that brain vital. We talk about a lot,
18:11
Speaker 1: but curiosity has a lot to do with that, I think, yes,
18:14
Speaker 1: And um, fear also tends to increase in Alzheimer's. Um, yeah,
18:21
Speaker 1: they're they're negatively correlated. As one goes up, the other
18:23
Speaker 1: goes down generally, all right, because you said that fear. Basically,
18:26
Speaker 1: curiosity gets you out of your comfort zone and fear
18:29
Speaker 1: keeps you in it. Right, that's exactly right the concept. So, um,
18:33
Speaker 1: we were talking about trait curiosity and that it can
18:37
Speaker 1: be subdivided even further. Um, those two categories are depth
18:41
Speaker 1: and breadth. So if you're interested in a lot of
18:44
Speaker 1: different things, but you're constantly something new, maybe right, Um,
18:49
Speaker 1: that's breadth of curiosity. There's just a lot of different
18:52
Speaker 1: things that appeal to you. But if you're interested in, uh,
18:58
Speaker 1: the French language and you start studying it back to
19:04
Speaker 1: you know, pre Roman era, right yeah. Yeah, Johnny Fuller
19:10
Speaker 1: here with the piano, does he know the piano pretty well? Yeah? Dud.
19:13
Speaker 1: He didn't just like say, learn how to play the piano.
19:16
Speaker 1: He's learning like theory, and he's learning about how pianos
19:20
Speaker 1: are constructed, and he's learning about the history of like
19:23
Speaker 1: plucking a string and what that means to his life.
19:27
Speaker 1: Curiosity very much a depth. So either way, that's just
19:30
Speaker 1: great though, you know, I mean you're and I think
19:33
Speaker 1: it depends on the mood of society. I remember when
19:36
Speaker 1: you know, which is better. Like when we were in school, UM,
19:42
Speaker 1: colleges wanted kids that were like really well rounded. They
19:44
Speaker 1: wanted people with like a breadth of curiosity UM. And
19:48
Speaker 1: nowadays they want their campus to to um have a
19:52
Speaker 1: breadth of curiosity by having people with depth, deep curiosity
19:57
Speaker 1: a bunch of people. No, No, like it's students. Yeah, man,
20:02
Speaker 1: they know state universities have to make you take your
20:05
Speaker 1: base courses and all. But I think all colleges should
20:09
Speaker 1: really just let you take what you want to take.
20:12
Speaker 1: Do you think they should be free? No, I don't
20:15
Speaker 1: know about that. I think they should be free. I
20:17
Speaker 1: mean that'd be great if they were free. I mean
20:18
Speaker 1: Georgia when we went there might as well have been free.
20:20
Speaker 1: It's like five hundred bucks a quarter. You know, it
20:23
Speaker 1: was really cheap, but I would I would have easily
20:26
Speaker 1: traded in the classes that I could still don't care
20:30
Speaker 1: about now for a lot more of the ones that
20:33
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed and we're interested in. It worked like
20:36
Speaker 1: a charm. That's a good point, my friend. So, UM, Chuck,
20:41
Speaker 1: we've covered pretty much all of the UM angles. I
20:47
Speaker 1: guess all of the science of it so far. Curiosities
20:50
Speaker 1: existed mostly in the realm of UM psychologists cognitive behavioralists,
20:54
Speaker 1: I believe who really took up the mantle and UM
20:59
Speaker 1: started investigating and I think the fifties or sixties UM,
21:03
Speaker 1: and they came up with some pretty pretty cool ideas. UM.
21:07
Speaker 1: But I think, really what's been settled on, and I
21:09
Speaker 1: think it's probably correct. We just haven't been able to
21:11
Speaker 1: fully flesh it out, is that there is some sort
21:14
Speaker 1: of internal drive that makes us curious and then it
21:18
Speaker 1: has to be satiated. Right yet starts, you point out,
21:21
Speaker 1: It starts with babies. Obviously. That's how you learn simple
21:24
Speaker 1: things like the stove is hot and the floor is hard,
21:27
Speaker 1: and closing that door on my finger will make me
21:31
Speaker 1: cry that daddy upset. That's or I will lose feeling
21:34
Speaker 1: in my hand forever, like that one listener who wrote
21:36
Speaker 1: in today, right yea. Um. But the the implication of
21:41
Speaker 1: that is, Okay, well, there's an example of what we
21:43
Speaker 1: get for being curious. We've learned about the world around us,
21:46
Speaker 1: we gain experience ent to a certain age when and beyond. Well,
21:50
Speaker 1: then why doesn't curiosity just dissipate entirely, well, Josh, because
21:55
Speaker 1: we want to be distracted in our brains and you can.
21:59
Speaker 1: You found a cool study they did in the fifties
22:01
Speaker 1: and sixties where they took people in I guess was
22:04
Speaker 1: a solitary confinement. They were doing brainwashing studies. Do you
22:07
Speaker 1: remember when we when we did brainwashing and like those
22:10
Speaker 1: guys came back from Korea. Yeah, I suspect that it
22:13
Speaker 1: was the same same research. Okay, so brainwash people would
22:17
Speaker 1: sit around and when when nothing else is going on,
22:20
Speaker 1: they would prefer to have like an old stock report
22:23
Speaker 1: read to them over and over. Yeah, the same same
22:25
Speaker 1: studyame one, just to have some sort of source of stimulation,
22:28
Speaker 1: mental stimulation in the face of complete sensory deprivation. Right,
22:32
Speaker 1: So that's why that's one. Um, there's and it's not
22:36
Speaker 1: just humans either. Rats exhibit this kind of thing where
22:39
Speaker 1: they'll start exploring mazes even though there's no expectation of food.
22:43
Speaker 1: M Monkeys kept in um cages with windows that have
22:47
Speaker 1: sliding covers, I guess, will open to look out, just
22:52
Speaker 1: to look out. For the heck of it. They finally
22:56
Speaker 1: found what amounts to a um curious gene, right, yeah,
23:02
Speaker 1: I mean after, I mean, you can get cognitive psychologists
23:04
Speaker 1: to say, untill they're blue in the face, that a
23:06
Speaker 1: curiosity is gonna eventually lead to your personality and identity
23:11
Speaker 1: and that's great. Well that's a big one though. Let's
23:13
Speaker 1: talk about that. That's a that's a that that makes
23:16
Speaker 1: just complete an utter sense to me. Right, yeah, me too. Like,
23:19
Speaker 1: if you think about it, curiosity is going out and
23:24
Speaker 1: gaining experience, and a lot of our identity is the
23:28
Speaker 1: experience that we've gained, the knowledge we have, the intellect
23:31
Speaker 1: we have, and so it makes us interesting to other people. Right.
23:34
Speaker 1: So uh, And because curiosity is different in every single person,
23:38
Speaker 1: to varying degrees to the different type, each person kind
23:42
Speaker 1: of helps mold their own identity through their own curiosity,
23:47
Speaker 1: and that is why curious people are attracted to other
23:49
Speaker 1: curious people. Yeah, that was a pretty interesting study. I
23:52
Speaker 1: think it was from like University of Texas in two
23:55
Speaker 1: thousand four, and they found just what we said, at
23:57
Speaker 1: high levels of trait curiosity predict how they felt about
24:01
Speaker 1: one another. Right, So they they they found that people
24:05
Speaker 1: who shared the same levels of trait curiosity were attracted
24:09
Speaker 1: to people with the similar similar levels. But you could
24:12
Speaker 1: put people who had that same level of curiosity but
24:16
Speaker 1: had different um outlooks on life, positive or negative, right,
24:21
Speaker 1: and overrode that. Right, Yeah, it was. It was a
24:23
Speaker 1: bigger indicator of UM attractiveness. That makes sense though, because
24:28
Speaker 1: that's kinda that's your outlook on life almost as your curiosity,
24:32
Speaker 1: not positive or negative. But like, what do you want
24:34
Speaker 1: to do? Do you want to sit on the couch
24:36
Speaker 1: or do you want to go see what's on top
24:37
Speaker 1: of that mountain? And and it doesn't matter what mood
24:40
Speaker 1: you're in while we do now and the wife, the wife,
24:43
Speaker 1: I want to I want to go over there and
24:44
Speaker 1: te what's on top of the mountain. The husband says
24:46
Speaker 1: that'd rather watch the Packers game, and the wife just
24:49
Speaker 1: shoots him in the chest because she's just so tired
24:52
Speaker 1: of that answer. Do you think how many times a year.
24:55
Speaker 1: That happened at least four times a year. Um, So, chuck,
24:58
Speaker 1: we were on the gene though, right, yeah, back back
25:00
Speaker 1: you were saying, like, I think what you were saying
25:03
Speaker 1: was cognitive psychologists are talking about the symptom of the
25:08
Speaker 1: action of a gene, right, yeah, which you can study
25:10
Speaker 1: like correlatively, core, correlatively. I'm curious, but when when if
25:16
Speaker 1: you want to talk to the brain and science, they've
25:19
Speaker 1: pinpointed a gene, the d r D four gene, as
25:23
Speaker 1: being responsible for creating dopamine in the curious is that right?
25:28
Speaker 1: And in the curious great tit songbird um, which are
25:32
Speaker 1: known to be fairly curious birds, right with the silly
25:36
Speaker 1: silly name um. And they yeah, they found that by
25:41
Speaker 1: enhancing and repressing the expression of this gene um, the
25:44
Speaker 1: birds became more or less um curious, like exploring different
25:49
Speaker 1: parts of their cages, billing nests and strange places. It's
25:55
Speaker 1: very sad science, but it's it's science nonetheless, right, right,
25:58
Speaker 1: But the same thing happens in humans. Dopamine is our
26:01
Speaker 1: reward center, and so we get flooded with dopamine just
26:03
Speaker 1: like we would when we get a reward for Yeah,
26:06
Speaker 1: like a big fat steak or a big vegan, a
26:10
Speaker 1: crunch ball so delicious. I'm off the vegan crunch falls
26:15
Speaker 1: these days. But you get rewarded with dopamine that way,
26:17
Speaker 1: So curiosity is reinforced through those reward centers. Well that's
26:20
Speaker 1: like scientifically, Boom goes to dynamite right there, right, because
26:24
Speaker 1: anytime dopamine is present, it means that you're hardwired to
26:28
Speaker 1: do that thing. That's that's how we learn to repeat
26:31
Speaker 1: behavior the release of dopamine, and we say, oh, this
26:34
Speaker 1: feels good, I'm gonna do it again. Oh I like this,
26:36
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it again, or you know, low fat milk,
26:41
Speaker 1: or I'm gonna go set this building on fire because
26:44
Speaker 1: it it felt really good and I'm curious, right, or
26:47
Speaker 1: volunteer to take part in hands across America? The same thing. Yeah,
26:50
Speaker 1: virtually on the on the cellular level, it's the same
26:53
Speaker 1: exact thing. Setting fires are taking part in in hands
26:56
Speaker 1: across America is the same thing. We're just a big
26:59
Speaker 1: bag of jeans and cells, right. But in humans, um,
27:02
Speaker 1: I don't believe it's the same in the great songbird.
27:05
Speaker 1: But in humans, a little part of our hippocampus called
27:08
Speaker 1: the dentate gyrus appears to be implicated as the big
27:13
Speaker 1: curiosity region. Right, It accepts dopamine. Right, is a form
27:17
Speaker 1: of payment. Yes, and the hip this this region of
27:21
Speaker 1: the hippocampus, and the hippocampus itself. One of its functions,
27:25
Speaker 1: as we talked about, I think in the Memory podcast,
27:27
Speaker 1: is to differentiate between already experienced and novel situations. Because
27:33
Speaker 1: if we couldn't differentiate, then hey, it's good to meet you.
27:36
Speaker 1: Every single time, we would just do the same podcast
27:40
Speaker 1: over and over again, and everybody would keep listening to
27:42
Speaker 1: the same podcast over and over again, and it just
27:45
Speaker 1: be just just thrilling every time. Good, let's do let's
27:47
Speaker 1: get stuck on the Muppets loop and just do that
27:50
Speaker 1: would be a good one. I could do that one.
27:51
Speaker 1: I could do twinkies every single time. All right, Well,
27:55
Speaker 1: I guess we'll just do We should probably agree on
27:56
Speaker 1: one right now, which one? Mm hmm, sorry, let's put
28:02
Speaker 1: it together. You're good, Yes, it is your curiosity satiated. Yeah,
28:07
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess we should anecdotally just say or
28:10
Speaker 1: I will say that I'm I've always been a very
28:11
Speaker 1: curious person, so I have I have a I was
28:15
Speaker 1: born with it. I have a breadth and a depth
28:17
Speaker 1: depending on what my main interest is. And so I've
28:21
Speaker 1: I've always been pretty curious, I have to. Um. I
28:24
Speaker 1: would say though, that there's always been a healthy mix
28:27
Speaker 1: of fear and curiosity. I would say it's fairly close
28:30
Speaker 1: to balanced. And um, yeah, I don't have enough fear
28:34
Speaker 1: in my life. I don't think I ever have. Really. Yeah,
28:37
Speaker 1: well not not a lot of bad things have happened
28:39
Speaker 1: to you. That's what you think, Chuck Bryant, mysterious, mysterious man.
28:45
Speaker 1: So you're good, I'm good. All right. Well, if you
28:47
Speaker 1: want to learn more about curiosity, brother sister, we get
28:51
Speaker 1: a whole site for you. It's called curiosity dot com.
28:54
Speaker 1: We're totally shilling for it at this moment, but not
28:56
Speaker 1: because we have to. It is very cool site. Yeah,
28:59
Speaker 1: we didn't even get asked, dude, this watch. They're gonna
29:00
Speaker 1: ask us to do this in a few weeks. We're
29:02
Speaker 1: gonna say done, done and done, and they'll be like, oh,
29:06
Speaker 1: can you re record that intro exactly? Yeah. Um. So
29:10
Speaker 1: that's curiosity dot com, which is a sister site of
29:14
Speaker 1: our beloved and esteemed How Stuff Works dot com, right,
29:18
Speaker 1: which is where you can find how curiosity works. Um
29:22
Speaker 1: and uh. Since I said how stuff works dot Com
29:26
Speaker 1: and in there is implied the word handy search bar,
29:29
Speaker 1: that means it's time for listener mail. That's right, Josh,
29:34
Speaker 1: and quickly before listener mail, I personally want to issue
29:37
Speaker 1: a an apology to those of you that took offense
29:42
Speaker 1: when I said Wally and disco. I too for people
29:46
Speaker 1: who have the condition. Um yeah, with a lazy eye.
29:51
Speaker 1: I have a friend with a lazy eye. He always
29:53
Speaker 1: called it a disco. I I always thought it was
29:55
Speaker 1: hysterical when he did so. He thought it was funny.
29:58
Speaker 1: We all laugh. Uh not everyone thinks those things are funny.
30:02
Speaker 1: And I was pretty insensitive when I just threw those
30:05
Speaker 1: words out there, because it is a condition a lot
30:08
Speaker 1: of people feel really bad about. So good for you, Chuck.
30:10
Speaker 1: I want to just apologize for saving it. That was
30:12
Speaker 1: very grown up, but it's not what we're about here.
30:14
Speaker 1: And if you want to know how I feel about strabis,
30:16
Speaker 1: miss type in strabismus and blogs and how stuff works
30:21
Speaker 1: dot Com into the search engine your favorite search engine,
30:25
Speaker 1: and it will bring up a blog post time all right,
30:28
Speaker 1: unwardly with a little cross eyed Asian girl ron Ward.
30:31
Speaker 1: Enough Forard. This is I'm gonna call this for a
30:33
Speaker 1: good cause from Kristen. We got a lot of those
30:35
Speaker 1: back a few months ago when we talked about your
30:37
Speaker 1: good cause thing and um, well when we called for
30:41
Speaker 1: hey if you got a good calls And this is
30:44
Speaker 1: one that's I've been meaning to read for a while. Hi, guys,
30:46
Speaker 1: and Jerry just finished to the one on cults. Who
30:49
Speaker 1: is the leader? Uh? And at the end Josh called
30:52
Speaker 1: for people to write in with projects that will better humanity.
30:55
Speaker 1: I think I have a good one. I have the
30:57
Speaker 1: great fortune of working for a credible international humanitarian organization
31:02
Speaker 1: called World Bicycle Relief. Check us out at www dot
31:07
Speaker 1: world Bicycle Relief dot org. I live and working until
31:13
Speaker 1: our check clears, all right. I live and work in Zambia,
31:16
Speaker 1: in Southern Africa, and we build bicycles that we give
31:19
Speaker 1: to folks in need. Pretty simple. It's great. We are
31:22
Speaker 1: currently doing a distribution of fifty tho bicycles over the
31:25
Speaker 1: next three years. That's ten tho bicycle wheels. That's right.
31:29
Speaker 1: What oh man? This They were given out unit cycles
31:36
Speaker 1: and just go ahead, sorry to the Ministry of Education
31:41
Speaker 1: to help students and features access school. One of the
31:44
Speaker 1: things I think is super cool is it is u
31:45
Speaker 1: s of our bikes go to children, girl, children, females
31:51
Speaker 1: being disadvantaged and often left out of education, and developing
31:54
Speaker 1: countries like in Guatemala, they're getting them too, girls because
31:58
Speaker 1: they give the bike to the boy in the family
31:59
Speaker 1: so he can get educated. That's that's as old as
32:03
Speaker 1: the hills. That's right. Our projects, the bike, our project
32:06
Speaker 1: is actively increasing attendance of all children at Zambiane schools.
32:10
Speaker 1: I love my job. It's bettering humanity, promoting education, providing
32:14
Speaker 1: access to healthcare, and assisting with financial stability. Plus it's
32:18
Speaker 1: exercise is good for you. That's right. She encourages to
32:21
Speaker 1: visit Zambia. She said's pretty awesome. Sweet and she's been
32:24
Speaker 1: there for four years ago listening to us since then,
32:27
Speaker 1: and ours is one of her favorites. We'll take it definitely.
32:31
Speaker 1: That is Christen t World Bicycle Relief dot Org. That's great,
32:35
Speaker 1: Thank you, Christen. We appreciate that. Well, if you have
32:38
Speaker 1: something you've always been curious about, and not something stupid,
32:41
Speaker 1: but something like cool that we could possibly answer, we
32:44
Speaker 1: want to know, don't be stupid. I'm curious how the
32:47
Speaker 1: thermist words? How does it know hot or cold? Also,
32:50
Speaker 1: if you uh, that's not stupid, I just can't answer that. UM.
32:54
Speaker 1: In installation, it doesn't matter if it's hotter cold. We
32:56
Speaker 1: just installate. Oh, thermist, I thought you might a thermometer. Gotcha.
33:02
Speaker 1: So if you have something you're curious about, tell us
33:05
Speaker 1: we want to know, UM, and we'll try to figure
33:06
Speaker 1: it out. And if you have a podcast that if
33:10
Speaker 1: we had to podcast the same podcast over and over
33:13
Speaker 1: and over again, what would it be. We want to
33:15
Speaker 1: know whether we record it or not. Maybe it'll bring
33:18
Speaker 1: up a good idea. UM. Send those two stuff podcasts
33:23
Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com. Be sure to check
33:30
Speaker 1: out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future. Join
33:33
Speaker 1: how Stuff Work staff as we explore the most promising
33:36
Speaker 1: and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow, brought to you by the
33:42
Speaker 1: reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are you