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Jill Miller - Episode 7 - Trackside with Maddie Mooney · Trackside with Maddie Mooney

• TS JILL MILLER: Welcome to Track Side with Maddie Mooney. I'm Maddie Mooney and today's conversation is with head coach of Northwestern University, Joe Miller. I think that Joe Miller is one of the smartest and best coaches in the NCAA. So it was very fun to pick her brain in this conversation about how to build an appropriate team culture, the art of developing an athlete in this era of the NCAA, and how the team looks headed into championship season. Thank you for tuning in and I hope you enjoyed this episode. Hi Jill, welcome to the show today. Thank you for joining me. Thank you so much for having me. It's great to see you. How's the Chicago weather treating you at this time of year? Hey, right now we are beautiful. We have been sunny in between 60 and 70 all week this week and next week. So we're hoping that holds through the Big Ten Championship. It looks like similar wet weather in Madison, not a drop of rain. I feel like I'm jinxing it right now, as the staff at Wisconsin has told me since we've been there twice this year and in Had the threat of storms both times, but we've been we've been just having wonderful running weather recently. Yeah, that's exciting that you get to go compete at Wisconsin for Big Tens. I feel like you probably know that course inside and out from your years coaching there, and just how often everybody goes to race in Madison all the time. Yeah, I might be a little bit biased, but I do think it is the best course in Division I cross country. I love the fairness of it. I love it. You got some flat sections and you've got some hills and it's so great for the spectators to be able to see the whole field come through multiple times. And and yeah, I do joke with the team that I'm like, hey, if there's one course that I know how to coach, like I've spent a lot of hours out on this one. so we're really excited to head over to Madison next week. So we're ten days out from the Big Ten Championships, as we were just talking about, but it takes a lot of time in preparation to get a team ready to compete well on these big conference stages and national stages. And so I kinda wanna dive into the the culture at Northwestern and how you have fostered the team culture there. So to start out, just how would you describe the culture that you've sp that you've been building at Northwestern since you were hired in twenty nineteen? Yeah. It's it's the most important thing. To us here within this program is how our student athletes move through our systems here, how they feel, how we empower them, and how they leave our program with the goal of being the best versions of themselves because of what we teach within the program. So I feel incredibly fortunate that my values as a coach really align with the athletic department's values here. And so we really get to mirror what our athletic department wants. For our student athletes, and and he develops our standard that we try to make sure that we communicate really clearly across all sport teams here of how we want to operate within this community. And so I think that's a a special thing. It's something I don't take for granted that I really align with the bigger vision here of what this experience should be. and it's really about education and growth and so understanding that. our program, we want it to be an extension of the educational opportunity that they have here at Northwestern. And so I I really try to live that every day, that every day I'm teaching. I'm not a professor, I don't have a PhD beside my name, but really entering spaces that way of it is my job to teach and be an extension of the amazing education that they'll get here. We also really focus on the individual growth within a team environment. And getting excited about being a part of something that's so much bigger than yourself and maybe unleashing a version of you that maybe you knew she existed, but you didn't quite know how to tap into it and how we do that consistently day to day in our process. And then we're ready in the most competitive environments to be the best versions of ourselves. So something we come back to as a team a lot is just three words, which is hard, simple, fun. And we really work to embed that. every day and I'm fortunate that I have a team in the locker room that they know how to work hard. if if anything, I'm here to safeguard them from that worth ac w work ethic and that's a a really fun place to be as a coach. The simple and fun can be a little tricky in our sport. so it's a phrase I use a lot is that the beauty of our sport is in the simplicity of it. And are there complex variables? Sure. But when we start to become too complex, we lose the fun factor. And then that's not a good place to be as an athlete. So we notice that those two things are tied really closely together. And we work within the team environment to make sure that we have both of those elements. So when we're working hard and we're able to simplify the process or just do simple better than everybody else, we notice that we're having more fun than most teams as well. And that's a real sweet spot for our team. So Those are three things that we keep on the forefront of our brains every day. but the bigger picture is we wanna have a locker room full of women who are learning to be really articulate and self-aware about what their strengths and weaknesses are. And so with those strengths, we really try to empower them to lead within our team space and the athletic department, the campus community here, and that weaknesses are things that we don't hide from. We talk about them, we work on them. the self-awareness piece there is really, really important that we don't stay guarded with those things that we're really open to critique. That's how we just get so much better. so I actually told the team this yesterday. I'm so proud of how well they receive critique. I tell them something, they make a change really quickly and then we're back in a good place. so those I would say are like the the main principles of our culture here. and that we try to live those things every day and then we're supported by an environment here that's doing those the same things across all the sport departments, same conversations administrators are having with their coaches and really present with our student athletes to make sure that experience is one that we really focus on the process, that growth, the education, and the output of those things is competitive excellence. I've heard you talk before about how the athletic department at Northwestern seems to just be so supportive of the team, which is something I feel like I don't hear coaches say. much, especially coaches in the Power Four conferences, when football is the end all be all at every school. So that is something very unique about North Western that I feel like I've heard you say that several times before, that there's so much support from the athletic director and the athletic department, which is really cool to hear for a cross country and track team. Like you really don't get that too often. also unique things about Northwestern, aside from that the academic rigor, but Also being a woman's only team, is that something that impacts the culture from just from your standpoint as a coach at all? Yeah. Just take take a step back what you said about administrative support. It's something I really believe strongly in that sometimes we can forget that we feel like coaches like they all have the confidence and they have the belief and it's coming from within, but we're also products of athletic environments. And when someone believes in you, you get to bring the best version of yourself. And that's what here I feel from that administrative support. I have an athletic director who has so much energy, wants to understand everything, figure out ways to help, and then a senior women's administrator who three sixties situations like I've never seen before is so brilliant, so helpful. But it's also like learning to understand each other so that they can believe in me and then I can be the best version of me. Like it's that trickle down that I feel like feels very unique. I feel Very, very grateful for that. and and part of the setup, you're right, is that we're a women's only program. And and I do feel a huge difference in terms of having that setup here. I think sometimes there can be blurry lines then between a men's team, a women's team, and they're combined, and and there's a lot of good that comes from it too, as well. here, what I really love about our setup, we are we are definitely a part of a culture here that that loves women's sports. across every team here. We feel a ton of fr pride in how we show up for the other women's sports teams and and they show up for us as well. And we learn from all those teams and we're excited now that we're teaching them some things now that we've become somewhat successful, not compared to the teams that sit right next to me here who have won multiple national titles, but we're working on it. but in terms of having a women's only program, what I love is that we can demand of our support staff to really understand female physiology. And that's something that I think can can get missed. we still need more research on women specifically of the ages of 18 to 22 to understand their physiology and the hormonal changes that they're going through and how training and recovery impacts them and how we give the best advice. But there's a body of research there that's really growing. And we can say like, hey, we're gonna stay on top of all that. We are gonna make sure that we are making decisions that best suit this age group, young women, and not taking research that's been done on men, applying it to women, without the understanding that the hormonal system is different, the brainstem is different, and thinking really critically about the advice that we're giving to help them progress through their years here. So that's something that I feel is very unique. something I say a lot is that we're all human. So the quality of our work is gonna be tied to the quantity of it. And for us being able to just be laser focused on female middle distance and distance runners, it really allows us to turn over every stone and make sure we're giving really good advice that hits the nail on the head of how we continue to progress health markers and performance simultaneously, which can be a tricky task for sure. But these are conversations that we have the bandwidth to talk about every single day. Right. See, this is this is why I love you as a coach, because I'm like, this is blowing my mind that this is like it and it should be, but that this is your your frame of mind of why it's been beneficial to be a woman's only team. Because it's so true. And it's something I like as an athlete or if I was looking at a program, I don't even know if I would think about that. But that is like that's so true and that's such a benefit. So that's really cool. we we love being able to dig into those details and and we have a lot of fun digging into that science and being really critical of any research that we read and digging into the sub subject sets. and then, you know, I haven't even talked about then like the mental side of it and how we build a system for mentality of strength within the team. And I think that some of those things are gender specific, not all. I don't want to stereotype there, but I feel like we just do a really good job. of creating a system of strength within the mentality that we're building within this program because of it being women's only so something else I really like that you said earlier was that you're a teacher in a s in a sense to your athletes. Do you feel that which I totally I totally agree with for my time in the NCAA that the coach kind of sets the the tone and sets the knowledge, but do you feel like you have been able to teach some of your upperclassmen as they've gone throughout the program and that they can then be teachers for the younger people as they join? Like is there a bit of that trickle down effect? for sure. we keep a a little bit bigger roster than most now because we are distance only. We have the cross country and track roster. So how I like to think of it, not that I would ever have thirty children, but if I had thirty children, they'd have to start raising each other. there's only so much bandwidth and we we really try to meet in each individual where they're at. I think one-on-one conversations are really important. our coaching staff needs to understand each individual athlete to be able to give her the tools to grow within this program. With that said, we have systems in place that we really believe in that we do work to enhance every summer. So the summer for us here is just chocked full of brainstorming what I call think tank meetings where we're digging in and seeing where can we be better. I feel like I turn into a an eight year old in the summer and I just ask why. why, why? Why are we doing everything that we do to make sure it has purpose? With that said, by and large, we stick with some systems that we really believe in. And so those folks who grow through our program, they learn a lot. And typically by the second or third year, they really understand those systems and we empower them to teach the younger student athletes on the team. Something really important to us is that across class lines, everybody has relationships built throughout. That benefits the younger folks on our team, but it also benefits the older ones. I think for someone who's in their last year of eligibility, things can start to get a little weird. And you start to clench things a little bit too much and you start to lose the levity and the fun and the joy that you entered with and staying close to a first year within this program can be really helpful there. But they also feel a ton of impact through that teaching. And that's the example that I hope to set for them is that like that's the joy I get to feel all the time. Because when I teach somebody and they learn and they apply that and they grow, me standing beside that, I feel such amazing impact. And then they get to do the same thing. There's also so many conversations that are so much better had within a team than coming from me. And so they can really share through the experience, be really articulate with the young folks on the team about how hard this is gonna be, but how much they're still believed in. And when they can't quite figure out the details, they're so helpful there. and so our upperclassmen know that that is a part of their job. They've got to take care of themselves first because most of them are out there competing like in the heat of the moment in the thick competition. during the season. But that's also a part of our program. So we we name non-negotiables every year and we really let our team take the lead there. And one of theirs this year is it's everybody's responsibility to build a legacy. And that's something really important to them that they take a ton of pride in that their words and their actions really matter and how they're teaching the younger folks on the team is then their way of looking back to say, like, I was a part of that build. And we communicate really clearly that this doesn't work without that. The success would not be sustainable without them always having an eye on teaching and then it becomes the gift that keeps giving. we've got fifth year seniors on our team right now that had a lot poured into them when they were young on this team. They knew the impact. So they know they're like, Hey, I'm gonna be a part of that so that this keeps moving in the right direction and That's a really fun thing to see. And sometimes it's informal moments and we have team meetings and we go into small groups and we can hear that leadership, but it's more often in the informal moments when you see someone taking someone underneath their shoulder that's having a hard day or some seniors that I see taking all the freshmen over the dining hall just to make sure that they've got someone to eat with and connect with. I think it's those those moments that matter a lot more. but those who move through a program, like they understand that that's that's a part of their responsibility. This is kind of fascinating for me to hear from my perspective. So for anybody listening who doesn't know, Jill overlapped as my coach for one year at Wisconsin as the women's distance coach there. And I remember as a freshman that year, you had partnered all of us up with an up like a senior or fifth year or junior and upperclassman at cross country camp. And it's just so it's cool to hear now that like that's setting the base of like the team culture that you were working to build over time. So and it shows it works. you look at when you came when you went to Northwestern where the team was finishing, towards the bottom of the Big Ten in the conference at that time. And and now last year you guys were brought the third place in the conference, for cross country. So it shows I mean, to me that's a proof that culture really does impact how the team's gonna race for each other and race as a whole as as the team improved over all of those years. But Yeah, that's kinda that was like a full circle moment in my head. I remember I was with Shaylin who was a fifth year and who was a freshman. It's funny. And we know it can be a little jarring at first and you're like you kinda gonna have to figure out how to move back and forth between someone who's about to graduate, someone who's just entering a new environment. And then when we see those relationships take hold, we find that they're really impactful and I think connectivity is so important. Being understood and seen and valued is so important. And yes, that happens from our coaching staff and support staff, but it's really, really impactful within the team environment. And it does take time and it takes energy, but developing those relationships is just a huge part of this experience. And it does help us build toward competitive excellence. And something that a psychologist taught me that always resonates in my head is that hard work is only sustainable for long periods of time if you've got great community around you. And I think that's what's missed is that we want to pour a boatload of hard work in over really long periods of time. because that's the way our sport works. It doesn't happen on a short-term timeline. It's long term investment. And so our ability to do that rests on the connectivity of our community and the support there. Then that's what gets us excited to keep coming back to the environment and keep pouring ourselves into this. And without that, our system here just doesn't work. We demand so much of them athletically and academically that if we don't have that community and we don't have the strength in the community around us, it really doesn't work. and so we build that within our locker room, but then across all the other sport teams. And that's something that one of our fifth year seniors was telling me about yesterday of just how life giving it is to feel not just the momentum within our program. but feeling it from all the other fall sports teams. And I'm like, that's a really unique experience to feel that. And it's because of how we're connected here and how we do have an understanding that like it's not community for community's sake, if that matters, like it's community so that we can continue to work really hard so that we get more out of ourselves in terms of the competitors that we are. so that's something I love about this athletic department here. Right. So Speaking about the team itself and in creating that culture, I'm curious as a coach, what do you look for when you are recruiting athletes today, whether that is freshmen or grad students or tr you know, transfer athletes. Yeah. So I think that when I was talking about culture and I was talking about hard, simple and fun. Simple and fun is something I love coaching. that that takes work, that takes our time, but that's a that's a investment that I love making. I think the the fundamental building block that we're looking for is someone who loves to work hard. if that's not there, this is not gonna work. And I mentioned it just a second ago about the academics. Like it's it's gonna be academic rigor and athletic rigor. So if we don't want hard, it's not happening. Right. what excites me about a recruit is someone who's wildly competitive, what I say a lot is a killer. I love killers, people who just have that killer instinct and want to compete and want to be people. I think everything else we can teach, if you come to the table with those things, and you really want to work on how to make this simple, how to make this the right amount of fun. But, you know, you wake up or you go to bed thinking about just like how you want to invest yourself in your academic and athletic experience, and part of that is then also in your teammates, you're gonna do really well here. everything else in terms of the X's and O's in the sport of the sport, like we love teaching those things. We love teaching the systems around our training, the systems around mindset. we love now that we have track seasons going into doing race tactics and doing sessions. We went through race tactics 101, 201, 301 and teaching all the different events. And I I think those are some things that are missed right now. In college athletics, that teaching side of the sport. We have an expectation that people come in and they're just either ready to go or they aren't. we love teaching those elements. So in terms of recruits, I'm okay with some gaps there that we're gonna fill through that teaching. But if somebody comes in and and they just love to compete, they love to beat people, they love to work hard, we typically can teach the rest. so those are conversations that we get at just in terms of folks wanting to do that work and also wanting to accept the critique of how to make meaningful change and openness to that goes a really long way. those those are typically conversations that we're having the recruiting conversation a lot. So on the flip side of that, in this era of the transfer portal being very active and well used in the N in our sport in the NCAA and just in general, how do you keep your athletes at Northwestern when it's so popular to s to pop around schools right now. I actually had a conversation with our athletic director about this not too long ago and he pushed back on me 'cause I said, they don't leave here 'cause they get such an amazing degree. you wanna stay at Northwestern because school is amazing. the doors that Northwestern opens for you is just an incredible thing to be a part of. And he pushed back a little bit because he was like, Yes, and they want to stay within this program. Like they love being a part of the program. The things that we talked about earlier in terms of connectivity and community, like these become their people. And wanting to stay alongside of those people is what keeps them here. And so I agree with him, it's an and but I'd be remiss if I didn't talk about this the academic side of things. And I think that's something that is of huge value. to our student athletes. they feel really excited about the education that they get here and what that will allow them to do once they graduate from Northwestern. And then the other side of that coin is how they feel about their experience and how connected they feel. It's to our staff, it's to our support staff, it's the administrators and it's all the student athletes. So we really focus on that more so like on the ground level. We've been and I want to knock on wood because this won't hold true, but we haven't had anybody leave our program. with that said, we have had some folks come into our program and and inject some some really awesome things within our team space. So I know that the portal can be a a tricky place. We are not immune from from people leaving here. If this is not a good fit, I think there are real positives of the portal and then there are negative ones as well, but we also try really hard to be very, very honest about who we are through the recruiting process. I don't think it works for anybody to be surprised when they get on campus. And so they will know really clearly what the expectations of the program are, how much energy we're going to ask of them to give to their school and their sport and their teammates. And then we'll be very detailed about what we're looking for from a recovery perspective. So we're absolutely demanding of a sleep schedule fueling properly, of protecting their energy, of learning how to manage stress within a very stressful environment. We don't want anybody to be surprised by that. And so I think that helps then in terms of retention, that we don't have anybody coming here that's like, I had no idea. Like I had no idea they'd meet six days a week for practice every week and they'd have team meetings at least five of those days and that they're gonna be on top of the details and asking for feedback and and interfaces about how to how do we get better. along with all those things that come outside of practice. So we're very honest on the front side. We get people who really want to live within the program that we are. I think that's really important as well. but then the education, the experience. and if we if we feel like those things aren't in alignment, then I do think the portal, you know, it's it's there for that reason. but it's not there for things got hard. I really think that that's how it should it should be hard everywhere that you go. but assessing that the environment is the right one for you, we really try to do that on the front side. Right. Yeah. I I like that a lot because I have a lot of friends or have met people at some of these other institutions where the academics are not quite as rigorous or they have the option to to have like a very easy course load of, you know, like my class is just gonna be doing yoga or something. You know what I mean? so it's It is definitely a specific type of athlete who excels at Northwestern, a school that does have the the academic rigor and the athletic expectations of them. but it I'm I mean, clearly it's been working out really well. Like it's been very fun to follow Northwestern's journey as you've built this team over the years into what it is. in our last few minutes I do wanna talk about Big Tens coming up and just what your Your goals are as a team headed into that and the rest of championship season. Yeah. We love the momentum that we have as a team right now. from top to bottom with our team. They're finding ways to contribute to the energy and to that build into the championship season. we have built this season different than last year. We raced a lot more during the regular season last year than we have this year. So We feel really excited about where we can go in the championship season. The Big Ten and we have a lot of depth on the front side from Oregon to Washington and Minnesota and Penn State. They're all phenomenal teams. So I'm really excited about what that fight is gonna be like. and our team has just been working very diligently on nailing the process together, learning from each other. getting really excited to go into these environments, being excited to bring the best versions of themselves for one another. And that's something our program has been heavily rooted in is like how we say we fly together as a team. And so we've been seeing that not just in practices, but outside of practices. So it's the way we move as a group and it's the way we'll move through championship season. So we're really excited to be a little less than 10 days out. from heading to Madison and to be able to compete within such a competitive and deep conference. Do you have any are there any place goals compared to last year as far as your NCAA results from last year that you're looking to improve on? or is it it's a different squad than it was last year, so it's a d clean slate? Yeah. We've actually something I learned from our lacrosse coach who won the national title last year that she felt was really important to her team's progression was making sure that we talk about what the noise is and then what's the real narrative. And so we do that every week. We talk through what's the noise. And the noise that we keep hearing externally is we're not we're not as good as we were last year. And we know because of our process, we know because of our workouts. We have plenty of data that shows us that that is not true. so for us, our narrative in the room is like we are so excited about our build. And it absolutely looks different, but it looks different for a reason. I think our build through the championship season can get us to a place where we show through the results if we've got it on the day that we can be a better team than we were last year. that really excites this group because they know how good that team was, but also that they left the legacy behind. They taught us a lot. We're carrying the torch on this this year, we look a little bit different in terms of the lineup. But gosh, this group is nailing the process. And that's something that really excites us. we find a ton we understand that there there is pressure going into championship, but that just leads us to purpose and what is our purpose. And our purpose is to nail that process and to show up as the best versions of ourselves through the championship season and and we love that our entire roster is helping us figure that out every single day. so I do think hopefully that the goal is is that we show everybody externally what we know inside. that that we're a better team from top to bottom because we learned so much from last year and and we're taking a a step forward. We also understand that that's not what our regular season looked like and it and it looked like that for a reason. but also makes us really excited to turn the corner and head into next week. Yeah. Yeah I'm ex I'm very excited to watch and I will be on the live stream rooting for rooting for Northwestern for sure. last question. As the program convin continues to evolve at Northwestern. What legacy do you hope to leave behind both as as a coach at this program and and for the team in general? You always want to leave a place better than when you came in. And I can say at this point, that that feels that that's really been solidified for us. And let me be very clear. I'm not saying that I'm leaving. I'm just saying as we look at the whole journey here, I love it here. with that said, the legacy I wanna leave behind is like how you do this work really matters and the impact that you can have on young people, that's what matters most. I love How we do things here, we are absolutely not perfect. we're never going to be perfect, but we're constantly going to be refining our process and setting an example of leadership here that we want to trickle down and for our young women to take into the real world. I believe that that leads us to the best results possible. And I understand the trickiness of that in an ever-changing environment competitively. but in a place where we do feel like we have so many athletes coming in, world class athletes, just ready to compete at the highest level, we're gonna continue to do it through development. and showing that young people can come in this program and develop tremendously to get themselves to a place where they can be competitive at the top end of division one. And and it's really tough. It's really hard. We talk really honestly about how hard that's gonna be. but that's what I want our program to be known for is that development, it's how we do things together, it's how we teach and how we put just incredible young women out into the real world. and that we see that through competition. it was really exciting. It felt like last year people saw that, maybe for the first time. But the reality is is that had just been building every single year. That that how it been in place. and it it took some time to see the fruits of that labor and that's just how our sport works. but that alongside of just being incredibly tough and gritty and competitive and always getting more out of ourselves than people maybe think that we could. That's I know what this team wants to be known for. And I know that's what they work hard on day in and day out is how to set themselves up to be able to do that as a team and do it together. Those are the things that make me really proud to be a small part of this. Our student athletes carry so much of that and embed that in how they move through their days and how they enter competition. and I just love that I get to be a small part of empowering it. and that's really exciting to me. That's awesome. That's a great a great legacy to leave for anyone who comes comes in and out of the program. thank you so much for joining me today. I am so excited to watch Northwestern through this championship season. so yeah, thank you, Jill. Yeah, it was great to see you. Thanks for all the great questions. Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode. If you want to watch more of Track Side with Maddie Mooney, tune into RunnerSpace or Athletic online or check us out on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. If you or somebody you know would be a good fit for this show, Email me at maddie.mooney at athletic.net.