Latest / Radio 831: A Romance Podcast / The Sex Purge Movie Is Actually Good, Rachel Lynn Solomon on Celebrity Romance, and What We Consumed This Month

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The Sex Purge Movie Is Actually Good, Rachel Lynn Solomon on Celebrity Romance, and What We Consumed This Month · Radio 831: A Romance Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome to the Radio 831 podcast. We're your hosts,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Sanjana Bhaskar and Tyler McCall.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: And we're so excited to talk everything romance, from the
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: novels and the tropes to the book-to-screen adaptations and, of course,
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: the drama of it all. You know, unpacking what the
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: genre says about who we are and how we love.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Big stuff. Important stuff.
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: Tyler.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Sanj.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: We got to talk about what we watched on our
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: date night recently.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: At the Alamo Drafthouse downtown Manhattan location.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Shout out Alamo Drafthouse. Where I found out that you
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: are like actually princess of the Alamo Drafthouse franchise.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: I am the mayor of the Alamo Drafthouse. This is
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: not a plug. I am not sponsored, but I could be.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: I am at the Alamo Draft House all the time.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: I have the Alamo Draft House season pass, which is
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: their version of like the AMCA list or whatever. So
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: I go to movies all the time. And there is
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: a guy who checks tickets and he's usually at the
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Brooklyn location. And I saw him at the Manhattan location
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: and I was like, you are not in the right place.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: And I have to tell you that I saw him
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: the next night because I went to the Alamo Draft
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: House in Brooklyn. And I was like, hey, I told
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: you I'd see you again. He was like, what's up?
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Well, the night that we saw this lovely gentleman, we
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: were watching what has been affectionately referred to as the
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Sex Perch movie, One Night Only, featuring Callum Turner and
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Monica Barbaro, who are still like working their way up
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: in the acting pyramid, I think, like What would we
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: call them, like B-list at this moment?
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: You can make an argument that his marriage to Dua
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Lipa probably pushed Callum into the A-list, maybe.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: Okay, so the premise of this movie, Sex Purge movie,
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: is functionally that the United States has become a state
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: where only one night a year are single, unmarried people
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: permitted to have sex with their partners. And all adults
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: in the United States are given biomarkers that indicate whether
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: or not they are allowed to have sex on the
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: basis of their marital status. It's like a conservative fascist
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: push for family values or whatever it is. And the
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: police are actively tasked with enforcing that people don't have
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: sex out of line. This one night a year, which
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: I'm sure to a certain extent why the fascist state
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: is interested in giving us a day off from fascism.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: People are allowed to have sex. And so there's this
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: like feral sexual energy in the city of New York,
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: which is where this movie takes place. And that is
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: the night when Monica and Callum's characters find each other.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: and embark on shenanigans. I feel like that's the best
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: way to say it. They really just embark on shenanigans
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: as they each try to get laid.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: It really is a lot like the other hit movie
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: of the summer, The Odyssey.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: In many ways. Say more about that.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: What are these two characters, if not two characters, trying
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: to get home to their proverbial beautiful wife, aka premarital sex?
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You know what?
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: I think I've made my point. I rest my case,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Your Honor.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Case accepted. What did you think
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: of One Night Only? I loved it. Me too!
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: I just have to say that there were points in
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: this movie where you and I looked over at each
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: other and we were like, I am going to throw up. Like,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: I am going to throw up, which is like the
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: highest amount of praise. Like, there was a point where
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Callum Turner took his shirt off and we might as
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: well have been like gripping each other's arm.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: It was like a soap opera. That's the sound I made.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: In the theater, in the Alamo Drafthouse. I thought it
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: was hilarious.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: I also, I know that everyone thinks the premise is
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: really stupid and like, I get it. But the thing
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: about it is I actually don't think it's that far
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: off from where we're at politically.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: In this country.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: I had a really great time watching them run into
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: each other on and off again through the course of
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: this 12-hour night. And even knowing... This being a rom-com
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: that they would end up together, the like near misses
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: of it all.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: I kept falling for them. I was like, no, they
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: need to get together.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: How are they going to do it?
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: So the way the story works is like they encounter
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: each other at the beginning of the night and then
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: just keep running into each other and keep getting close
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: to being able to hook up with someone. And both
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: of them are not able to hook up with the
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: people that they set out to hook up with. And
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: then at the end of the night, it's just the
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: two of them for a bunch of reasons. I thought
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: that setup was so clever because it mimics the setup
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: of a really good sex scene that you are edged
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: towards something and then it pulls back. And it happens
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: three or four times. This movie about these people hunting
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: for sex ends up structurally mimicking sex where people are
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: like trying hard to be fulfilled and are not quite there.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: And then you land on the morning after, which is
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: like the sort of resolution. So I thought it was
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: structurally a kind of clever thing. Also, to your point
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: about the premise, I've been seeing a lot of critiques
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: where I'm just like, we're expecting the Handmaid's Tale to
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: be like the key portrait of... fascism when actually we
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: are currently in a fascist state. Experiencing it. Yeah. And
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: people are still going to the club. I don't mean
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: to be like flippant about it because this is a
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: little bit of an absurd premise. And also, is it
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: that absurd? Not really. I don't know. Within the world
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: of the movie.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: To me, they satisfactorily explained any question that I might have.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: Like part of it is that you have to give
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: yourself over to the premise. You have to give yourself
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: over to the sex purge. You have to let the
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: sex purge.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: Wash over you. That's part of it. Correct.
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: Correct.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: The other part of it is like the movie does
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: try to answer like logistical questions. Like if I'm remembering correctly,
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: the reason that they get one night off is to
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: prove that they're like, well, we're not total fascists. Like
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: we'll give you one night to fuck or whatever. Like
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: I think that's what like the politician stand in figure says.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: A lot of it just felt very accurate to me.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: Like it didn't feel that absurd of a premise. We
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: talked about this after the movie. Another thing that I
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: really appreciated it is how New York. It was like
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: they shot in New York, which I really appreciate. Attention, Spider-Man.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: I know you shot in Scotland and I can tell.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: They ride the subway and it's like the real subway.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: It's not the Vancouver subway or whatever subway we used
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: to stand in on a lot of TV and film.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Like she rides a city bike at one point. Like
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: they get across many parts of the city using very
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: real public transit and like. Real transit times also. At
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: no point did I feel like I think we've cheated
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: a little bit timing wise on how long it would
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: actually take you to get here. So like I really
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: appreciated the New Yorkness of the rom-com.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: I was talking to a friend of mine about how
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: one of the things I thought was absurd in the
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: movie is that it's hard for characters to find condoms.
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: And I was like, how would people not be on
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: a capitalism level so completely prepared to make as much
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: money as humanly possible? By overstocking on condoms in New
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: York City on the biggest sex night of the year. Yeah.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: It also did what I've been saying we need to
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: bring back, which is infidelity.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: Like he has a girlfriend.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: Granted, his girlfriend played by Maya Hawke, because sure, why.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: The hell not? Interesting choice. Interesting choice.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: So Maya Hawke on Purge Night has told him this
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: is not a spoiler. It happens in the first like
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: 10 minutes of this movie. Maya Hawk on Purge Night
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: has told him that she wants to sleep with their
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: hot neighbor. And he's like, okay. And he was planning
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: on proposing. So it derails his whole night. So, like,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: infidelity with, like, an asterisk of, like, they're kind of
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: maybe breaking up. But it is an obstacle that he
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: has this girlfriend that he was going to propose to. Also,
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: his mom is played by Molly Ringwald. She has a
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: boyfriend played by LeVar Burton, like the Reading Rainbow guy.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he does a great job.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Incredible work from LeVar Burton.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: Also, Molly Ringwald, maybe the best she's ever looked in
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: her life. Oh, my God.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: So hot.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: She looks so good. She looks so hot. If you
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: want rom-coms back in theaters, I do. You do. We
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: all should. Go see this movie.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Save the industry. save the rom-com.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: The interesting thing about this because i i know the
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: reviews have been really mixed and i mean even on
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: letterboxd it's got like a two point something right now
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: everyone i've talked to even if they gave it relatively
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: low star ratings was like i had a good time i.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Had a good time uh and then the.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: Review itself is like oh here's this like structural failing
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: from the world building or whatever it is and i'm
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: like but did you have a really good time Because
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: I feel perhaps you're not capturing that in your response
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: to this. Yeah. And that is a huge important element
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: of a rom-com. Did you have fun? Did you have
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: a good time?
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: Did I get to watch two hot people fall in.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: Love and make out? Oh, my God. Can I ask
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: how you felt about the ending? I mean, a lot
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: of this has been a spoiler, but as a spoiler,
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: they do not have sex at the end of the movie.
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: They do not.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: That is the one part where I was like, all right,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: I got to give it to the haters. Because Will Glock,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: the writer and director, did an interview where he was like,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Gen Z doesn't want to see sex scenes.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: We actually had to take a lot out, which... you're
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: a coward. Put them back. Correct. Put them back. And
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: it's interesting because in the movie, it's framed as like
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: a fuck you to the state. Like we're resisting the
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: state by not having sex on their parameters. Yeah. And
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: yet it comes off as kind of a conservative decision.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: And in that way, it's sort of like, I guess,
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: damned if you do, damned if you don't almost, which
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: is like what another friend was saying too about it. Like,
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: that they're stuck between a rock and a hard place
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: on whether or not to actually have sex. I think
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: they should have just had sex. I think they should
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: have just done it. Even still, I had a great time.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Yeah. I think Will Gluck
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: makes a great movie. I mean, he made Anyone But You,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: which I feel like fine about, but he also made
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Easy A, which is like one of my favorites of
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: all time. I think it's so good. It's so clever.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: He's very like referential as a director where he's constantly...
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: in conversation with other work that is romantic or not.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: Like Easy A is obviously in conversation with Scarlet Letter.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: Anyone But You, I think, is much ado about nothing. Yeah.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: I've really enjoyed it. I'll probably watch it again, to
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: be honest.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: I really want rom-coms back in theaters. So I'm a
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: big advocate for this one. So Callum Turner is a
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: good segue into He's on the verge of the A-list,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: which is exactly what I had a chat with author
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Rachel Lynn Solomon about this week. We got Rachel on
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: the horn to talk about celebrity romance in.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: Romance novels. Specifically, I wanted to talk to Rachel. I've
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: talked on the podcast before about how much I love
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: her novel Business or Pleasure, which is a celebrity romance
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: with a former CW-like actor. And her most recent release, Extracurricular,
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: is also a celebrity normal person romance about a retired
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: teen pop star. going to college in her 20s and
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: having an affair with her hot professor with a slutty earring.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: So I'm really excited to get into that conversation with
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Rachel right now.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Hi, Rachel.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: I'm so excited to talk to you today.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Hi, Tyler.
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: I feel like I'm kind of low-key constantly in your
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: DMs or in your comment section.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: But I'm always happy to see your name there.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: I am really thrilled to talk to you today about
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: writing celebrity romances. And so I just wanted to start
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: by asking what you think it is about a celebrity
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: normal person romance. that is so enticing to a reader,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: but also that is enticing to you as an author?
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: Sure. Well, so I think for the reader, there's obviously
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: the escapism of it, right? Like the idea that this,
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: you know, untouchable, incredibly just, you know, often supernaturally attractive
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: person could be into just little, normal, any single one
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: of us. Just the whole concept of being, I think,
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: swept away in this life that is hugely foreign and
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: I don't know, I just picture it as this intense whirlwind.
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: In real life, it actually sounds kind of awful if
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: you really think about what the nature of celebrity truly entails.
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: And so I guess when I'm writing it, I'm not
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: so much thinking about the escapism as what would it
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: realistically be like to navigate celebrity in a modern day
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: relationship and how... You know, how would that hinder the relationship?
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: What are the unique hurdles that you would have to
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: jump over? I'm really drawn to sort of the lesser
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: explored celebrity stories because I think most authors are looking
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: to tell a story that hasn't been told before, right?
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: You really want to try to put your own unique
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: spin on things. Otherwise, why are you doing it?
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I wanted to talk to you specifically because you've
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: done it twice now. You did it in Business or Pleasure.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: to a certain extent, and then an extracurricular. And they
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: are both very different versions of celebrity. And I was
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: wondering if you could kind of break down like Finn's
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: version of celebrity in Business of Pleasure versus Ramona's in
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: extracurricular and kind of what about those two modalities was
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: so interesting to you.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: So in Business or Pleasure, I wanted to write about
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: someone who's not necessarily washed up, but whose time in
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: the spotlight has pass them by a little bit. And
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: Finn in In Business or Pleasure, he was a former
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: star on a CW kind of paranormal TV show over
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: a decade ago, I think maybe 15 years ago. And
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: now he mostly makes a living going to comic cons
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: around the country. And yeah, being on panels, posing for photos.
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: And this is really what everyone associates him with, even after.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: All these years.
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: And then with extracurricular, really just on the other end
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: of the spectrum, Ramona is a former child star turned
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: pop star who has spent her whole life in the spotlight,
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: kind of forced into it by her parents. And she's
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: really just been kind of on a rising star for
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: the past few years. She's selling out arenas all across
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: the country. She's going on world tours. So I don't
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: get the sense, or at least I didn't envision her
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: as someone who is as you know, iconic as Taylor Swift,
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: definitely not that same level of recognition. She's more, definitely
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: more early career. I wanted to explore a side of
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: fame that was definitely a bit uglier and really dig
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: into the darker side of celebrity and how growing up
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: with that would leave a lasting impact.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: It's funny that you said that dating a famous person
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: seems really scary because it seems really scary to me.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: Like I was heavily involved with the One Direction fandom
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: and watching the way that those people were insane specifically
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: about their respective girlfriends, whether they were famous or not,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: was like, I don't know how anyone could live. Under
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: that kind of microscope. And I'm curious, like what fandoms
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: you've been involved in or like what celebrities relationships you've
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: seen that have really triggered that feeling for you of like, oh,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: I think that this would be a huge barrier to
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: a relationship.
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: I don't have much of a history myself in fandoms,
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: but I do. I do love like a celebrity memoir.
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: And I do sometimes when there's a relationship that's really
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: active in the public eye, I will find myself kind
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: of on an Instagram rabbit hole, seeing what people, what
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: just like strangers have commented on each person's Instagrams. Cause
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: like they can be really unhinged and like really upsetting.
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think with like Sabrina Carpenter and Barry Keoghan,
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: there was a lot of really like wild stuff that
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: people were commenting on.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: The the level of access that people have to celebrities is,
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: I think, quite scary. I really respect and admire the
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: people who are just like completely private about about who
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: they're dating. But at the same time, I don't know
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: how you could maintain it for that long.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: How do you balance between sort of the the fantasy
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: of celebrity, which is I feel like what is kind
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: of appealing to readers in this situation and then capturing
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: the reality of it? Like, how are you trying to
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: navigate that balance?
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think just trying to give them as
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: many humanizing and like relatable details as possible. So with Ramona,
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: you know, she is obviously at the yeah, she was
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: at the kind of peak of her career when she
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: decides to step down. But she's also just very secretly lonely,
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: which I imagine is probably a realistic thing. state of
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: being for a.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: Lot of people.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: Again, like I'm probably projecting, but you just imagine being
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: surrounded by all these people who admire you and who
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: might fulfill your every whim. But who do you really
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: have who doesn't maybe secretly want something from you or
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: isn't wondering what they can get out of that relationship?
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: And being able to find someone who will slow down
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: and go through things gently with you is amazing. It's
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: just the most meaningful thing. And that's what I really
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: aim to capture, whether it's a book about a celebrity
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: or not.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that sort of gets into my next question, which
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: is is beyond that sort of wish fulfillment fantasy of
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: like dating a famous person. What's unique about bringing a
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: celebrity into the mix when you're writing a romance that
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: like what does a celebrity bring to the romance itself?
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: I mean, definitely a sense of higher stakes, right? Because
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: there's the whole notion of this relationship taking place in
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: the public eye and what the average person is going
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: to think about it.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: The privacy, right?
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: Like the relationship is suddenly at risk of not just
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: being found out, but at risk of potentially bad people
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: taking advantage of it somehow. And I think it's also
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: an opportunity for the non-famous person just to I don't know,
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: I say like prove their love in quotes, but it's
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: more show their devotion and show the depth of their
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: caring for the other person. One, by showing that, you know,
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: all of these hurdles don't really matter when they love
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: this person so much, but also that they will make
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: these sacrifices. Like he will get the upgraded security system.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: Like he, there's a moment where a reporter comes onto
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: campus and like, he's like, I'm gonna make sure campus
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: security has your name. Even though this is not his world,
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: he's adapting and figuring out how to exist in it
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: now that he's been thrust into it.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: How do you incorporate the notion of a fan base
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: that can be quite over-involved? I'm trying to think of
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: a nice way to say it, like over-involved without sort
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: of villainizing them.
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: No, that's a great question because I really wanted to
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: make sure that Ramona's fan base was treated with love
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: and affection. because it's in the very first page of
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: the book where Ramona is performing, and she's filled with
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: this affection for all of her young fans who are
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: dressed up. And even later on in the book, where
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: she's approached at a mall and very unprepared, and some
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: girls are asking for photos and, you know, kind of
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: badgering her for news about what she's been up to,
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: she does have a bit of a panic moment, but
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: she also, she has so much love for them still. Like,
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: She knows that they're the reason that she has all
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: this privilege. She knows that they're kind of taking a
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: risk by devoting themselves so much to her and kind
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: of opening themselves up to criticism and ridicule. And that,
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: I don't know, I feel like it's very brave to
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: love something that authentically and that fearlessly. And I wanted
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: that admiration to come through.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: In the book.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: I have one last question, which is kind of a
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: fun one. Do you have a favorite celebrity couple?
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good question.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Because I feel like all of us, for like the
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: best of my efforts, and I'm like, I'm not ever
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: going to be one of those people.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: I get weirdly attached.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: To some people that I'm like, if they ever break up,
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: I will be devastated.
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: The sad thing is, I feel like I have been,
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: but then they have broken up. Like Amy Poehler and
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: Will Arnett.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: I felt like we're so.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: so they just yeah I mean what do we really
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: know but like they just seemed so perfect together um
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: I guess right now I don't know I'd be sad
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: if like John Krasinski and Emily Blunt broke up.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah That's a good one.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: They seem sweet together. What about you? Tom Holland and Zendaya. Oh,
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: my God. Yes. Yes. Okay.
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: I just saw the new Spider-Man. And yes, 100% yes. Well,
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: I feel like they do such a good job of
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: keeping things private. And I think that's kind of the key.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: I do too.
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: If those people aren't 100% on board with making things
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: super public, you just have to shut it all down.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Rachel, thank you so much for coming and chatting with
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: me today and for taking those out of the DMs,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: if you will.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: It's been such a pleasure.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: This has been so fun.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Thank you.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: I had so much fun talking with Rachel. It was
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: really kind of her to hop on all the way
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: from Amsterdam where she lives. It was quite the time
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: difference to navigate.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: I didn't know that.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she lives in Amsterdam.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: But it's the end of August. Can you believe it? No,
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: time is flying.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: This summer has been crazy fast for me.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: It really has. I'm like not well about it, but
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: it's fine.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Well, that means it's time for us to catch up.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: on what we've been consuming this month. And I would
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: love to know what you've been reading, what you've been consuming.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: I have to say this month, I have a little
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: bit of a theme, something new, something old, and something borrowed.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: Nothing blue. So starting with something new. I have been
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: watching Sterling Point, which is the Amazon Prime series. Yes.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: It's like eight episodes about these teenagers in Muskoka, Canada,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: written by Megan Park, who wrote My Old Ass, that
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: movie with Aubrey Plaza. That movie ruined my life.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: I sobbed hysterically through that movie.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: And Sterling Point borrows a little bit of Summer I
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Turned Pretty, but it's softer and a little less campy.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: It follows this girl who goes to Muskoka to hunt
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: down secrets about her family's past, basically. She's coming to
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: this inheritance of a small parcel of land in Canada
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: from her granddad who she never met and didn't know.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: And in the process... She ends up on this island
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: in Muskoka where there's no cell service and she's surrounded
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: by all these new people. And it turns the whole
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: show into almost like the children's books and YA novels
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: I used to read as a kid where kids existed
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: in a world without adults. And they were like, becoming
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: people in this like ungoverned sort of wild way. And
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: I think that something that Megan Park is particularly gifted
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: at is writing stories where it is so clear to
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: you that the whole world exists in a teenage girl's eyes.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: Like the way that an 18-year-old sees the world, it
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: is everything. Like there is something so capacious and endless
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: about it that I find to be deeply romantic and
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: sweet Something really interesting about Sterling Point, which is also,
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: I should say, is romantic. There's a little bit of
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: a love triangle element. There are secondary romances and tertiary
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: romances throughout. A lot of this is actually guided by
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: people falling in love and not knowing what to do
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: about it in the way that teenagers do. But a
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: huge part of the show is actually improv. There's very
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: little superscripted dialogue. Oh, that's right. Yeah. And it creates
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: such an interesting effect. It's just the most naturalistic teenagers
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: figuring out how to flirt, teenagers figuring out how to
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: be in love setup. I've just been really charmed by it.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: I've been really charmed by it. I think you would
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: like it a lot. On top of the fact that
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: it's a visually beautiful show because the setting they're in
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: is out of this world. It's just very charming. It's
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: very familiar, even as a new artifact. Yeah. I would say. Yeah.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: So that's my new thing. My old thing, I've been
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: watching a lot of Scandal, and I'm watching Scandal for
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: the very first time. That's right.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: We had a DM conversation about this, and I was like,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: I would have bet you a million dollars the show
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: ended in 2012, and you were like, it started in 2012.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: It did.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: So my memory is not so good.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: I've been backfilling cultural references for years now because I
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: grew up not watching a lot of TV at all.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: My parents were very anti-TV, and so there's a huge
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: swath of my... adolescence and like young adulthood where I
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: just wasn't watching any of the shows that were super
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: formative in a culture. And so I've been watching Scandal
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: and trying to get a sense for like, what is
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: this whole Olivia fits Jake situation about? Because obviously I'm
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: watching for romance reasons. I don't really care about anything else. Also,
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: everyone's a Republican. Like the politics do not interest me
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: by and large. But I find the show interesting for
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: its capacity to leverage DC politics to talk about the
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: intimate dynamics between these people. Always. For me, there's something
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: so romance about a story that claims to be about something,
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: but that is actually about the relationships between people. Yeah.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: That will always be endlessly satisfying to me. I do
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: think that Shonda Rhimes, her work has a legacy of
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: having two banger first seasons and then crashing and burning
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: quite spectacularly. And that is my feeling about Scandal, where
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: I had a fabulous time the first two seasons, even
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: if I was like, Fitz Grant Fitzgerald Grant that's that's
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Tony Goldwyn's character's name is a menace and an emotional
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: terrorist and should not be trusted and should maybe be
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: indebted for crimes like emotional crimes even if I feel
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: that way about him I found the first two seasons
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: to be really engaging and interesting and then the quality
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: really dropped it really did I think it was just
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: there was a sense of like how do I make
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: these stakes bigger and bigger and bigger and as I've
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: said on the pod a bajillion times before I'm interested
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: when the stakes are more and more intimate that will
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: always be Interesting to me. So when you lose that,
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: you lose me a little bit. But I am glad
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: to have filled in some gaps in my cultural knowledge
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: because Scandal is obviously like a formative piece of media.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: And I was really tired of watching like Olivia and
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: Fitz edits on TikTok for three minutes at a time
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: and not knowing what was going on. And not having
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: any context. And then my Something Borrowed is a stalker
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: romance series by the dark romance writer C.R.
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: Jane.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Nisha Sharma, friend of the pod, recommended the Wrong Player
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: series to me. And I read like eight books in
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: a weekend. I'm not even kidding. I've read. Well, I'm not.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: That's not an exaggeration. I'm telling you, I was up
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: until the wee hours of the night reading. I'm in
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: a real soccer romance kick at the moment, which we
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: can unpack at a later date.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Soccer romance kick. Also, great choice of words.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: True.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: I'm having a fabulous time. I really am. It's like, again,
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: that thing of I love a little bit of absurdity,
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: you know? Yeah. I love the concept of these college
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: football players being able to do all of the absurd
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: stuff they get up to and also being initiated into
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: a secret cult. simultaneously in the background, because of course,
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: why wouldn't they be? Say no more. Yeah. So that's
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: what I've been reading. How about you? What have you
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: been up to?
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: The only thing that I read this month that was
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: like in the romance category is Phoebe Berman's Gonna Lose
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: It by Brooke Averick. It's a book about this character,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: Phoebe Berman, who at almost 30 years old is still
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: a virgin.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: She gets like really.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: Really terrible anxiety around dating so that like she literally
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: like throws up when she thinks about being intimate with
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: somebody and so it's this story about her kind of
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: trying to get over that and making a lit like
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: a to-do list to to lose her virginity I thought
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: it was really sweet it's interesting in that like the
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: romance is actually like almost the subplot like calling it
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: a romance doesn't feel entirely accurate because there is a
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: romance in it but it feels so secondary to Phoebe
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: and her group of friends and then otherwise I had
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: a stack of books like I try to stick up
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: to date on like contemporary stuff that people are talking about.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: So I read the new Ann Patchett, Whistler. I really
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: love Ann Patchett. There's something about her style of writing
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: I find really soothing. Somebody on Twitter said that she
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: writes American girl books for adults. And that really rang
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: true to me. I was like, oh, that feels really accurate.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: Where it's just like a nice, they're like really nice
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: stories about ladies that I've only read the last three.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: I read Dutch, The Dutch House and Tom Lake, which
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: was her book before this. Whistler is about a woman
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: who reconnects with her ex-stepfather and sort of this like
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: tragedy they've gone through together where they both on a
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: wintry night, they got into a car accident together. And
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: it's sort of these two parallel tracks of you finding
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: out what happened when they got into this car accident
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: together and then their lives now and how complicated being
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: a grownup can be and how we think that we
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: understand things about like our parents and our parents' lives
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: that maybe aren't true or are misunderstandings or oversimplifications of
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: their lives. So that was a nice cozy little read
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: for me. And then I read Jenny Jackson's The Shampoo Effect,
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: which do you listen to the podcast Normal People by chance?
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: I do not. Or Normal Gossip. Sorry. Do you listen
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: to the podcast? Oh, I do listen to Normal Gossip.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: Normal Gossip. Yeah, I love Normal Gossip.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: I always call it Normal People. Sally Rooney Pilt. Normal
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Gossip is one of my favorite podcasts of all time.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: For those who don't know, it's a And they go
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: through it and they're like they'll pause and be like,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: so what would you do in this scenario? And the
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: guests will say, oh, I would do X, Y, Z.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: And they're like, oh, that's not what they did. And
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: so it's always very, very entertaining. It's like my favorite
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: kind of gossip, which is low stakes gossip about people
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know and I'm not involved with. And Jenny
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: Jackson has a way of writing novels that feel exactly like.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: listening to an episode of Normal Gossip.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: That's high praise. It's high praise. Like truly, it's like
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: the best praise I could give a novel. Yeah, exactly.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: That's the show.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Call us and leave us a voicemail with your thoughts
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: at 833-831-LOVE.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: That's 833-831-5683. If you fell hard for what you heard here,
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: get episode notes delivered straight to your inbox by signing
• 30:08
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• 30:14
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• 30:18
  Speaker 2: with 831's monthly read-in-one-sitting romance novellas and sign up for
• 30:23
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• 30:25
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• 30:34
  Speaker 1: The Radio 831 Podcast is a production of iHeart Podcasts,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: hosted by Sanjana Bhaskar and Tyler McCall. The show is
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: produced by Liz Smith. And for iHeart, our supervising producer
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: is Emily Marinoff. Special thanks to the whole iHeart team
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: and especially Allie Perry and Allison Cantor Graber. Our executive
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: producers are Claire Mazur and Erica Cerullo. Our music is
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: Domino by James Ryan Carr and Love Is What You
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: Do by Alibi. We'll be sharing the love here again
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: next week.