Latest / Arizona Unscripted / Episode 24: 🌵 Arizona Unscripted - Who Controls Your Utitlity Bills?
Transcript
- Arizona Unscripted: Welcome to Arizona Unscripted. I'm your host Bart, and alongside my wonderful co-host today, Diane and Jim. And from time to time, of course, we'll be joined by special pop-in guests and other co-hosts from communities all across the Great Canyons, great Grand Canyon State, if I can say that right. Anyway, Arizona Unscripted is all about Arizona. It's people, its places, events, and the local issues that shape our everyday lives. From small towns to big cities, from hidden gems and great local food, of course. culture and the challenges facing our communities. We're here to have a real conversation with real Arizonans. So our goal is simple celebrate what makes Arizona unique while bringing together voices from every corner of our state. So whether you're a lifelong resident, a newcomer or just someone who loves Arizona, I don't know why you wouldn't. We we hope you'll feel right at home. So grab a cup of coffee or something cool and sit back and join us as we explore the people, places, and stories that make Arizona, I think, and we all think, one of the best places on earth. Anyway, Welcome to Arizona Unscripted. And with that, I'm gonna pass it over to my co-host Diane. Hey Diane. Hi, Barr. It's so good to be back here with you. Yeah. Yes, we have Carol here today. And Jim is going to kind of lead us off with our guest as well. So, Jim, do you want to introduce our guests? And ⁓ I see Clara, you are muted. So let's get you on mute. There we go. Jim. These are our two favorite. candidates in the state of Arizona, I think. Yes, and can affect ⁓ us local people the most. ⁓ Jonathan Hill and Claire Pratt, they're running for the corporate commission in Arizona. And with that, I'll turn it over to you, Jonathan and Claire, and l let you talk about what what your candidacy is about. Yes. Please tell us about this Arizona Corporation Commission because We are hearing so much about how this affects our daily lives. So please enlighten us. Well, thanks for having us. And ⁓ yeah, I'm so glad to hear that your corporation commission candidates are your favorite candidates. You're the ones who affect us the most. But many people just don't realize it. The the commission. regulates all the utility companies. ⁓ because they're monopolies, they don't get to set their own prices. So when your bills go up, it's not the utility company, it's the corporation commission. And the advantage to that is you can actually vote these people out if you don't think they're doing a good job. Yes. Yeah. And ⁓ you know, to Jonathan's point, y y the voters can choose. And you know, in other states and other places, ⁓ sometimes it's an appointed position. But here in Arizona, we have an incredible opportunity to actually have a direct say in how these investor owned utilities ⁓ treat us and what they charge us. There do you guys have anything to do with these data centers? Does the corporate commission control them in any way? Not really. ⁓ to a certain extent, there there is an overlap. I think of it kind of like a Venn diagram with multiple circles ⁓ all converging on the data center dialogue, but where the commission's ⁓ you know, circle kind of overlaps is in transmission. So when a data center is being cited, that's usually up to the county or the municipality that determines where ⁓ these things are or private landowners, et cetera. But we step in when there's a transmission issue, they're they have to build out infrastructure and we're the watchdogs, we would be the watchdogs to make sure that that cost is not being passed on to ratepayers. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I worry about the most. Yep. And that's especially that's especially a concern because right now the data center development is so speculative. There's there's so many people just jumping in trying to make a fast buck. And we're really concerned that, you know, if the utilities start building infrastructure for them and then the bubble pops and they go away, we don't want, you know, regular customers like all of us on the hook for the costs of all that infrastructure. Right. Very good point. Yeah, they talk about they're ⁓ gonna produce their own electricity and a lot of ⁓ have diesel generators that they can produce their own electricity, but then they turn around and buy it off the grid and raise our rates up, you know, or the usage raises our weight rates. Yeah, I wanna know why they can't be like a wine cellar, you know, put them all on underground. Why can't they do that? Yeah. Or up in space. Or putting them out in ⁓ in the ocean. I've even heard some some I heard that this week. ⁓ the electricity has to come from somewhere, right? Whether it's generated by solar or wind or conventional energy. ⁓ there's even some data centers that are considering using coal fired power plants to provide their electricity. So, you know, I I am pro development, but it has to be responsible development. And I think people are making it a black and white issue, like, ⁓ well If you're against data centers, turn off your phone and you're you must be anti development. It's like, no, that's not the case. It's just ⁓ you know, we want responsible development that's not gonna put tech over people and not gonna use up our water sources and pollute and all these other things. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a key key way to say it, ⁓ responsible. Yeah, that's such an important part. Okay, I just have to say something because I've heard multiple people say, I'm so torn between Clara and Jonathan, who should I vote for? And they don't understand we have two spots open. So we could vote for both of you. So it's an easy choice. I want to bring each of you to tell us a little bit about yourselves and what brings you here to this and your background because I'm so incredibly impressed with you both. So Jonathan, let's start with you and then we'll go to Clara and then we'll switch back and forth. Okay. Yeah. So yeah, that's a really important point that so many people missed, you know, they don't read the instruction on the ballot that you can vote for two. And we really need both of us. You know, I don't think Clara or I want to do this alone. You know, we're gonna be need some backup on this commission. So yeah, my background, I'm still fairly new to the political world. ⁓ the last twenty years I've worked at ⁓ ASU as a spacecraft engineer. ⁓ got the work on a number number of NASA missions, like the cute little Mars rovers, ⁓ some asteroid missions, and now a mission that's going off to Jupiter. And I started on the engineering side, ⁓ but then really fell in love with the science we were doing. And that's all mostly geology based. You know, what are these places made out of? And so I got my PhD in geology. And that's That's what I really hope to bring to the commission, you know. And your knowledge is so your knowledge knowledge is rock solid. Is that my understanding? Yes. Yeah, rock solid. We love that. And yeah, that's that's that's what I really want to bring to the commission. You know, an engineer who actually understands how power is generated and but also the geology side, because in so many cases it's the commission deciding whether water companies can continue pumping groundwater. And I think, you know, if you could actually read the reports and understand the geology behind it. make informed decisions. I think that'd be really valuable. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. We love that. And you're a Mojave. Yes, I'm a a native. Is it Mojave and is that the Mojave? ⁓ I like that. Yeah. Mojave Iight. ⁓ yeah, so I was originally born in Kingman. ⁓ and so yeah, so Mojave has a a special place in my heart. ⁓ one of the first events I did when I started running was the Mojave Fair. ⁓ in Kingman. ⁓ cool. That's this week. Are you coming this week? ⁓ we're we're book solid. This is ⁓ this is the busiest time of year. It's just nonstop events for both of us. So Clara, you are just as impressive, but you come with a completely different background. Tell us a little bit about you. Yeah, for sure. Well, you know, I was also ⁓ raised here in Arizona. ⁓ from the Navajo Nation in a small community called Lupton or Tesaana, which is about twenty five miles outside of Gallup, New Mexico on the I-40. ⁓ you know, so grew up in Arizona, yeah, and I spent some time away from Arizona in my professional career, but always knew that I wanted to come back to Arizona and raise my family here. So, you know, I think that's been something that has been really important. My North Star, if you will. ⁓ but yeah, I've spent my my my career has really been in public policy, ⁓ economic development, and infrastructure development. ⁓ I've founded several companies, but most recently and probably most germane to the work of the commission is I co-founded a solar development company, Utility Scale Solar, ⁓ called Navajo Power Public Benefit Corporation. And that was really in response to the closure of Navajo Generating Station. and a lot of the, you know, loss of jobs and wanting to have a just transition. early in my career, I actually was ⁓ you know, I was employed by the Navajo Nation and we were a lobbying and advocacy shop in DC and ⁓ you know, it was really part of that ⁓ installation and of scrubbers on the Navajo Generating Station, right? So the Navajo Nation really wanted to keep those ⁓ plants going as well as four corners and all of the other power plants because of it's a coal economy. It was a coal economy. Of course we've moved away from that. ⁓ And I was really blessed to be a big part of that conversation and moving to that just transition, which has been anything but just unfortunately. We've got a lot of workers out there that have now been out of work and trying to figure out how do we how do we transition in a responsible way to renewable energy. ⁓ Part of that work has also been off-grid school solar. So in addition to utility scale, have been working in the off-grid space and we've installed over 600 homes ⁓ with electricity that have never had it before, either because it's too expensive or too grid access. So we work we work ⁓ specifically only on tribal land. ⁓ so it's been it's been really exciting, ⁓ really wonderful. ⁓ but you know when I moved back home in 2018, I moved back to the Navajo Nation and then moved to Flagstaff ⁓ where I have my family here and I saw what the corporation commission, the decisions they've been making. And also I saw my bill like so many other people. And I said, wait a minute. Something is not right here. Why are we saying no to every energy source when we know we need more energy? Why are we cutting our nose off to spite our face? And why are we making things more expensive for consumers? So, you know, last year, I guess it's been over a year now, 18 months, I said, you what? To heck with it. I'm gonna throw my Throw my name in there. What's the worst that could happen? You know, what it can't be any worse than what we've got going on. And it has been such an amazing ride. And ⁓ you know, to Jonathan's point, we I've been referring to us as the power pair. We need both that neither of us alone, right? We're the power pair. We need each other. You know, you get one voice on the commission, you still get some stuff done. You can still be a voice, but you get two on the commission, that's when you're talking about setting up transformational change for the state. So we can't afford To only elect one person is my thought. You know, we need both. Well, and maybe you can convince one more person to join you. And that's the goal. You know, if there's there's only two seats on the commission this year. And so best case scenario, we're still gonna be in the minority for at least two years. Yeah. But if we can get both of us on the commission, show people what Democrats will do for them on the corporation commission, then we can, you know, lay a foundation. to come back in twenty twenty eight and hopefully take the remaining three seats. Well here's one of the things that I've really seen in last time when we had candidates here running for these positions and so many people had no idea how much it impacts their their family, their finances and whatnot. And so I'm really grateful for the two of you and I really Do you think like I see so much in community groups that people don't understand that those who sit on this commission really do make decisions that help to control or limit the financial impacts for people? So ⁓ can you talk a little bit about that? Like what all would we be seeing as just normal everyday people that is hitting our families based on what these positions would be doing the decisions being made there. Yeah, this is this is the most important ⁓ sorry. ⁓ yeah, I was gonna say this this is the most important office that people don't know about, ⁓ unfortunately. Although we're changing that, you know, one one voter at a time, we're getting the word out. And, you know, affordability has become such a top you know major part of the national conversation. And in Arizona, so many of those affordability issues come down to the Corporation Commission. And, you know, it doesn't help that the name is very misleading. You know, I've heard so many people say, like, ⁓ well, I don't own a business, so I just don't I'm not gonna vote for that. It doesn't relate to me. And it's like, ⁓ my gosh. No, it's the exact opposite. No, it relates to everybody. ⁓ so yeah, the the more people who are informed voters about this office, I think the better Arizona is gonna be. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's five people. You think about it, five people with an incredible amount of power in the state. And they often refer to it as the fourth branch of government. ⁓ because it is such a powerful body. And a lot of people don't know what it does. And so there's a big education campaign, and that's something that I learned very early on from Jonathan. Like, yes, we're campaigning, but the first thing we're doing is educating. And that just turned out to be really, really true. ⁓ but yeah, when you think about it. The utilities are easy to shake our fist at. Why are they raising my But they don't get to do that unless the commission says yes. So it's really the commission that we need to hold accountable because I always say corporations are gonna corporate, right? They're gonna do what they wanna do for their to to improve their bottom line and to make as much money as they can for their shareholders. That's sort of their job, if you will. ⁓ but it's the corporation commission's job to make sure they're not fleecing us to hold us accountable and to make sure that what they're doing is just and reasonable. And you know, in our opinion, it hasn't been just and reasonable for Arizona. Yeah. Well, and Joan has a really good question here. You know, she noted that there's eight divisions. What other responsibilities does a corporation have? And how many people actually work there? Yeah, so I I always tell people that I I think when the state founders were writing up our state constitution, you know, they gave some jobs to the governor, they gave some to the legislature, some to the courts. And everything that was left over, they just kind of shoved into the corporation commission. ⁓ geez. you know, the the main way they affect people is through utilities. But you know, if you do own a business, you or a nonprofit, you register that through the commission. They also regulate securities, you know. So if you go to a financial planner, they're regulated and certified through the commission. They do pipeline safety, they do railroad safety. It's all these things that when they work right. They're kind of invisible. No one even notices that it's going on in the background. But then the second something breaks, people get really hurt. And everyone's always w yeah, wondering what what happened, who took their eye off the ball. Yeah. Yeah, one little rate increase can really change a whole community sometimes. Right. If it becomes unaffordable to live there. Yeah, and there are people that decide where to buy their homes based on which utility is the provider because it there's such ⁓ disparate rates across the state depending on who your provider is. And so in addition to utility price regulation, it also the commission also registers businesses. make sure that the people who are registered to those businesses are conducting business in Arizona lawfully. There's a securities ⁓ component to it as well. And Jonathan has an interesting story about how he first became aware of the commission with the bridge out in 10 P, which I always find fascinating. Yeah. So my my first introduction to the, you know, main introduction to the commission was back in 2020, ⁓ right as COVID was happening and people were kind of going indoors, quarantining because we weren't sure what was happening. And there was a big railroad derailment ⁓ in downtown Tempe where I lived. and the the bridge collapsed and a huge fire, a bunch of chemicals got spilled into the lake. And everyone started asking, you know, whose job was it to make sure that this ri this hundred and twenty year old railroad bridge was still fit for service in the twenty first century? And it's like, Well, that's the corporation commission. Again, when it's working fine, no one even realizes it's there. But the second something goes wrong, you know, there's really consequences to it. I remember when that happened. Yeah, that was quite a mess they had there. Yep. So what would you all love for our listeners to know about the Corporation Commission and what you are bringing to these discussions? I I think the most important part is, you know, what we already said is like they they control how much you pay for your utilities. So if you don't think you're getting a fair deal, then we need to elect different people to the commission. And you know, my big ask for everyone everyone I talk to, I ask, you know, if you can go out and talk to some people for us and you know, your your own family or your neighbors or your coworkers, and it's the easiest you know, political conversation you'll ever start because it affects everybody the same. There's like we always say there's no such thing as Republican electricity or Democrat electricity. It's just electricity. It's just water. It all affects us the same. So if you're feeling the pinch, your neighbors probably feeling the pinch too, regardless of their political, you know, leanings. Yeah. And I would say that to me the choice is really, really clear when you contrast us against the other options, right? I mean, you have an incumbent that's already been in office and under his leadership when he was chair, we have had the highest and the quickest increase in utility bills and utility rules that we've had in 35 years. You know, that's saying something. That's not a good record to stand on, right? So you have that. You have the fact that he has data center clients. And I think the should know about that. You have the fact that he started a pay-to-play group called ⁓ the regulators roundtable, where they charge fifty thousand dollars a head to private for companies to have access to regulators in Arizona as well as other states. This regulator's round table. So that's the incumbent. And then you have the newcomer, the turning point guy, who is oddly fascinated and fixated on coal. And I get it. Like I said, I grew up in the coal industry. You know, we used coal for our heating. And I I love I always steal Jonathan's line. He said coal is a great fuel source if you literally have nothing else. If you have nothing else, nothing else. Yeah. Yeah. So you have a guy that wants to take us back to nineteen twenty-six and here we are in twenty twenty-six. So when you when you point that out between a NASA literal rocket scientist solar and delivered electricity to hundreds of homes. To me, it's like a no brainer, but I think it's the getting the message out there. And it shouldn't really be, you know, a party decision. This is just an Arizona decision, right? You don't have to like the party. You just have to like yourself enough not to want to pay more money. Yes. And and I think I think Mojave is actually the best example of that I've seen on the campaign trail. That town hall we didn't have a Sioux. Yep. You know It's a very conservative area, but at the end of the the town hall, I had you know people wearing red hats coming up and shaking my hand and saying they'd vote for us for the commission. Yeah. ⁓ because they wanted to see a change. Yep. And that really was an eye-opener for me. When that happened, I realized no matter what, people understand their pocketbook, people understand the impact. They may not have understood who was doing the pain to their pocketbook, but once they understand that, they want people that will make better decisions for their families. So ⁓ that's really important. And I appreciate that you are bringing other options to us. ⁓ Joan has a comment individuals can buy solar panels. ⁓ I just lost it. ⁓ but low income people cannot afford it. Are there still incentives available to have companies install on a home? To cut their costs. Well, you know, ⁓ some of the incentives have gone away for sure and the tax credits have gone away, which have made it difficult. But that's one of the things that both Jonathan and I want to revisit is you know, and and we we've said often, well, the programs that weren't working, you you retooled them. You don't throw the entire program out because you you re you re-key it, right? And when those energy efficiency standards and renewable energy standards were put in place over 10, 15 years ago. They had wide bipartisan support. It was still a Republican controlled corporation commission at the time. So it wasn't a political, ideological or political war. It was actually what was in the best interest of Arizona because we live in a really sunny state. So yes, those things need to come back. And it's still worthwhile. It is still worthwhile to install solar on a home. net metering rates are something that need to be reviewed and looked at because it's not fair that people are charging the grid, putting energy into the grid, they're getting paid a penance for that. And then the utility company is turning around and selling that at full market. Yeah. So do I. They pay me one cent for a kilowatt hour and I have to pay seven or fifteen cents a kilowatt hour if I use it off the grid. That's unfair. Yeah, and if and if you produce extra, you know, they'll pay you that you know couple of cents at best. But then they can turn around and send sell it to your neighbor at full price and make all that profit really complain about not making the profit. Right. Yeah. No, they should yeah, and like they they should be paying that back much more back to you guys as customers, as producers of power. And then if that was the case, that would help offset the cost even more and make it affordable for more people. Well they wouldn't have to build any more powerhouses if everybody was producing their own power. You know the big companies could use that power from the powerhouses. Yeah. Well, and I love when they when he was the grid versus the gr they they're worried about people being subsidized, but it's solar power users and producers that are subsidizing the grid. Right. Isn't that crazy? Well and I love you know like what he was saying about it's really not a partisan thing because this is what I've seen. This is a unifier and we're seeing that people are understanding There are things where we have common ground, and this really is one of the most impactful ones that we do. So it doesn't matter what political affiliation people have ⁓ as far as this issue goes, it impacts all of us. And so having really good leaders who make really sound decisions is really important. So we appreciate that you're traveling all over Arizona, educating people. making your voices heard and really bringing quality decisions to the board and giving us those options. So thank you for that. Does anybody have any last minute things for Jonathan and Clara? Or do you two have anything more for our listeners? Well I I wanna find can people to our audience members would tell us how to get to your websites and and such so we can people can go and check in. Donate. Good point, Bart. Well so actually ⁓ you really at for the most part can't donate to us anymore because Claire and I both ran as clean elections candidates. ⁓ so we're getting thanks to all the the five dollar donations that so many people from Mojave gave us, you know, we qualified for that program and and now we're receiving money from the state to run our campaigns. And so ⁓ yeah, so the big thing is just getting out the message. So yeah, my website is votehillaz. ⁓ you can learn a little bit more about me. ⁓ Sorry, Jonathan, I thought you were And mine is Clara for F O R A Z dot ⁓ com. That's great. Thank you. And we can put this in the description for our podcast so people will have that. I know people will have questions because every time y'all speak publicly, we get hit up with saying, What the heck? How did we not know these things? So thank you both for joining. We really appreciate you taking the time to run for these offices. We need people like you. That's right. And we appreciate everything you're doing to get the word out. You know how important this office is. Yeah. For all the for all the candidates and reminding people to go down ballot. You know, we lose about ten thousand votes each each drop line that you go down the ballot. So getting people to go all the way down ballot is so important. And vote for both, the power pair. Yes. Power pair, power pair, power pair. Two. We can vote for two. These are the two. And we say here, we start at the bottom of our ballot and go all the way up to the top. We are not gonna drop off that we're gonna start there and go all the way up. How about how about dynamo duo or something? ⁓ and Joan had one good final point here. The commission monthly meetings are open to the public. So it's really important for people to vote informed, vote early. ⁓ ballots will be out October seventh. So let's get those votes in early. Don't make us chase those ballots. And good luck to both of you. Thank you so much. Yep. Yep. Thanks for coming. Thanks.