Latest / The Real News Podcast / Kim Kelly: Coal Miners are Dying, and Trump Betrayed Them

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Kim Kelly: Coal Miners are Dying, and Trump Betrayed Them · The Real News Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: A I Got Workers, Oh right.
0:06
Speaker 2: Welcome everyone to Working People, a podcast about the lives, jobs,
0:11
Speaker 2: dreams and struggles of the working class today. Working People
0:15
Speaker 2: is a proud member of the Labor Radio Podcast Network
0:18
Speaker 2: and has brought to you in partnership within These Times
0:20
Speaker 2: magazine and the Real News Network. The show is produced
0:24
Speaker 2: by Jules Taylor and made possible by the support of
0:27
Speaker 2: listeners like you. My name is Maximilian Alvarez, and today
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Speaker 2: we're talking about coal miners and workers in the coal
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Speaker 2: mining industry and what the government is doing to help
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Speaker 2: them or hurt them under President Trump. Mister, I love
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Speaker 2: coal miners. You know, it's been a meme ever since
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Speaker 2: the twenty sixteen presidential election. You know, Trump loves throwing
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Speaker 2: on a coal miner's helmet and lining up coal miners
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Speaker 2: around him for the cameras. He loves talking about bringing
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Speaker 2: collback quote unquote, he loves talking about.
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Speaker 1: Quote beautiful clean coal.
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Speaker 2: Trump and right wing media are so obsessed with cultivating
1:05
Speaker 2: this image of him as the coal miners champion. And
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Speaker 2: you know, this so called blue collar billionaire who really
1:12
Speaker 2: you know, gets the working class. And obviously, you know,
1:15
Speaker 2: the industry itself is all for it Earlier this year,
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Speaker 2: Trump was even crowned the quote undisputed champion of beautiful
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Speaker 2: clean coal, and he was presented with this big stupid
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Speaker 2: trophy by the Washington Coal Club, which is an advocacy
1:29
Speaker 2: group with financial ties to the coal industry. But don't
1:32
Speaker 2: take my word for it. Here's one video that the
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Speaker 2: White House posted on Instagram in early February of this year.
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Speaker 3: The most important people here today are those who get
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Speaker 3: their hands a little bit dirty to keep America running
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Speaker 3: at full speed, our frontline coal workers.
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Speaker 4: My name is Cale Blackbird.
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Speaker 5: I work at the Bear Run Mine. I drive a
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Speaker 5: Hall truck, and I think what the President has done
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Speaker 5: for the coal industry is really important and.
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Speaker 6: We're able to keep electricity prices down.
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Speaker 7: My name is Vernon Roast the Third. I'm a coal
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Speaker 7: miner in Alabama Shoal Creek Mine.
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Speaker 1: We know the President Trump blows clean coal.
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Speaker 5: Been in the coal instry for sixteen years and the
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Speaker 5: time with Trump being in office, it's been been a
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Speaker 5: great deal. From my family from a small coal mining
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Speaker 5: town southern West Virginia.
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Speaker 7: Originally, convey it belts are the machines that we use
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Speaker 7: to transport coal from six hundred to thousand feet below
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Speaker 7: ground to the surface where it goes to power plants
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Speaker 7: that fuel America's energy.
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Speaker 5: We are thankful for President Trump's bent to coal to
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Speaker 5: bring affordable energy to American people against us the ability
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Speaker 5: to sell coal to the fire plants to get us
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Speaker 5: to the extreme coal temperatures, the extreme feats in the summers,
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Speaker 5: when our energy gridded would be struggling. It is, always
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Speaker 5: has been, and always will be affordable, reliable source for electricity.
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Speaker 3: The really dependable form of energy that we have, and
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Speaker 3: that's clean, beautiful coal.
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Speaker 1: Thank you, President Trump. Thank you President for knowing the
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Speaker 1: clean coal thing.
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Speaker 5: Beautiful cook keep the lights on, keeps the lights on.
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Speaker 7: Thank you President Trump for knowing that clean coal keeps
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Speaker 7: the lights on.
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Speaker 2: All Right, So, now that we've got that, you know,
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Speaker 2: Trump marketing machine BS version of reality, let's contrast that
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Speaker 2: with the shocking news about what the Trump administration is
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Speaker 2: doing to protect those coal miners that they call brave
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Speaker 2: and claim to love so much. And in her latest
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Speaker 2: report for In These Times, Kim Kelly writes, quote on
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Speaker 2: May first, International Worker's Day, Trump administration officials targeted the
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Speaker 2: Federal Mind Safety and Health Review commission the fms HRC
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Speaker 2: abruptly firing Commissioner Mosha Marviv and closing down one of
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Speaker 2: the agency's three offices. In total, the fms HRC lost
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Speaker 2: sixteen workers as well well as the entire Pittsburgh office
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Speaker 2: that day. Marvitt has spent the bulk of his career,
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Speaker 2: including twelve years as a supervisory attorney advisor at the
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Speaker 2: fms HRC, unabashedly representing workers interests both in court and
4:14
Speaker 2: as a freelance journalist for outlets like In These Times,
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Speaker 2: The Washington Post, and Dissent. The pro worker reputation preceded
4:21
Speaker 2: him when President Joe Biden first nominated him for commissioner
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Speaker 2: position back in twenty twenty two. It took three tries
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Speaker 2: to get him confirmed to his current role, and he's
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Speaker 2: not giving it up without a fight. On May seventh,
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Speaker 2: Marvit filed a lawsuit against the Trump administration over what
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Speaker 2: he calls his quote unlawful and unjustified purported termination, which
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Speaker 2: has left a backed up fms HRC even more shorthanded.
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Speaker 2: The Trump administration's war on coal miner's health has become
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Speaker 2: especially pronounced during the president's second term. Kelly continues. The
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Speaker 2: simpering Trump Diggs coal image the administration seeks to project
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Speaker 2: is vastly at odds with the action it's taken to
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Speaker 2: limit minor protections, endanger their health, and exacerbate the black
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Speaker 2: lung crisis consuming Central Appalachia, where one in five veteran
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Speaker 2: miners has black lung and one in twenty has the
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Speaker 2: most severe and totally disabling form of the disease end quote.
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Speaker 2: So to talk about all of this, I am really
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Speaker 2: grateful to be joined once again by friend of the show.
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Speaker 2: You love her, you know her. She's the one and
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Speaker 2: only Kim Kelly herself. Kim for those who don't know
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Speaker 2: and have been living under a rock, is a freelance
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Speaker 2: journalist and author based in Philadelphia. She is a labor
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Speaker 2: writer for In These Times and regularly contributes to many
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Speaker 2: other publications, including the Real News Network. Her first book,
5:40
Speaker 2: Fight Like Hell, The Untold History of American Labor, and
5:43
Speaker 2: the Young reader's edition, Fight to Win Heroes of American Labor,
5:47
Speaker 2: are both available from One Signal Simon and Schuster Publishers. Kim,
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Speaker 2: thank you so much for joining us against this. I
5:53
Speaker 2: really really appreciate it. I want to just kind of
5:56
Speaker 2: jump in and toss it to you. Please pick up
5:59
Speaker 2: where I left off, you know, reading from your really
6:01
Speaker 2: important article, which we'll link to in the show notes,
6:03
Speaker 2: but just break down for folks, like, what the hell
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Speaker 2: is actually happening here with this you know, little known
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Speaker 2: agency that actually has, you know, really important consequences for
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Speaker 2: the lives and health of coal miners and their families.
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Speaker 1: So here's the thing, the fns HRC.
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Speaker 4: I kind of think of it as like like talking
6:22
Speaker 4: about a ship named after Hillary, you know them.
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Speaker 1: A lot of acronyms.
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Speaker 4: I mean, honestly, the acronyms of it all that kind
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Speaker 4: of plays into the issue here, like this is a smaller, respectably,
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Speaker 4: not that sexy, little government agency that impacts a very
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Speaker 4: specific group of workers in communities, and it's being absolutely
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Speaker 4: torn apart as part of this ongoing kind of Trump
6:50
Speaker 4: administration push to deregulate and d skill and d the
6:57
Speaker 4: throne every possible government and imaginable that isn't expressly falling
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Speaker 4: in line with their authoritarian project. I did get to
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Speaker 4: interview someone with very deep knowledge of the agency. Obviously
7:13
Speaker 4: I had to keep their identity to ourselves because there's
7:16
Speaker 4: only like thirty people left and he was just kind
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Speaker 4: of saying it felt like the thought of someone in
7:23
Speaker 4: Trump world just kind of going down a list of
7:25
Speaker 4: agencies and like it's their turn.
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Speaker 1: And this has happened.
7:30
Speaker 4: To a lot of other of like smaller commissions boards OSHA,
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Speaker 4: Occupational Health and Safety Administration, their equivalents of this commission
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Speaker 4: they got got like the NLRB has gotten all types
7:45
Speaker 4: of jacked up, Like it's it feels as if we're
7:49
Speaker 4: in kind of a new stage of this dismantling, Like
7:53
Speaker 4: we had the Doge arrow where it's like really big
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Speaker 4: bombastic slash and burn intels going through your computer, like
8:00
Speaker 4: lots of press coverage and then Doje it was you.
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Speaker 1: Know, Kia to go out back shot. Done with that.
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Speaker 4: But this ongoing project has not ceased. It's just become
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Speaker 4: quieter and arguably more insiduous, because public attention has understandably
8:19
Speaker 4: shifted towards all of the other cataclysms that our country
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Speaker 4: and our government is responsible for right now. But this
8:27
Speaker 4: this came across my radar. Of course, we need to
8:30
Speaker 4: shout out Jordan Barrabb, the worker safety guy who incredibly
8:34
Speaker 4: experienced runs confined spaces, fantastic publication Key report on this first,
8:39
Speaker 4: and that's how it came to my attention, and honestly,
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Speaker 4: the thing that stuck out to me, besides the fact
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Speaker 4: that it was about coal miners. Coal miner safety is
8:48
Speaker 4: kind of my thing. But I recognize that name Mosha
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Speaker 4: Marvitt because I remember earlier fights to get him confirmed
8:56
Speaker 4: to this arguably pretty atypical, pretty non controversial agency.
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Speaker 1: Like he's a lawyer, he's.
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Speaker 4: Pro worker, seems like a fairly inoffensive type of guy
9:07
Speaker 4: to end up on this type of agency that essentially
9:11
Speaker 4: deals with civil cases and determined worker discrimination cases. But
9:15
Speaker 4: he had a hell of a time getting confirmed, and
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Speaker 4: I think it is because he's an outspoken worker advocate
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Speaker 4: who's written for lefty publications and was very clearly like
9:27
Speaker 4: pro worker and this he was nominated by Biden, it
9:30
Speaker 4: took forever for him to actually get confirmed, and now
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Speaker 4: he gets fired out of nowhere, and it seems very
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Speaker 4: clear that there is some kind of ideological purging kind
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Speaker 4: of like effort behind this, and he is fighting back.
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Speaker 4: The reason I wasn't able to interview him personally, like
9:49
Speaker 4: we chatted a bit, but I couldn't speak to him
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Speaker 4: on the records because he's suing the government over this.
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Speaker 4: I think Jordan mentioned that this was the first time
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Speaker 4: in I think the fifth fifty years of this agency's
10:01
Speaker 4: existence that someone had been removed from the Commission in
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Speaker 4: this way. And this commission was created as part of
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Speaker 4: the nineteen seventy seven Mine Act, which is really mostly
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Speaker 4: one of our i think, lesser known but more impressive
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Speaker 4: pieces of labor legislation in this country. Is obviously coal
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Speaker 4: miner specific, but it really did a good job of
10:26
Speaker 4: laying out very specific protections and building up agencies like
10:30
Speaker 4: emshe the Mind Safety and Health Administration.
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Speaker 1: It's a good law.
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Speaker 4: It's a good law, and this is something that obviously
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Speaker 4: the people that run coal mines and make money off
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Speaker 4: of coal mines and get their little, greedy, clean, greedy
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Speaker 4: fingers all over coal miner's paychecks. Of course, there's stuff
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Speaker 4: in there that they would prefer not to have to
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Speaker 4: deal with, like safety regulations, like worker safety laws, like
10:56
Speaker 4: union organizing rights, and something that's stuck with me when
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Speaker 4: I was taught to this anonymous worker at the agency.
11:03
Speaker 4: They were saying, you know the fact that there's three
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Speaker 4: people left. One's Republican, then there's two Democrats whose terms
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Speaker 4: end in August, and with Moshi currently out of the picture,
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Speaker 4: if they lose people, they lose the ability to have
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Speaker 4: a quorum, which essentially means they can't do anything. And
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Speaker 4: I ask them, do you think more people be confirmed?
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Speaker 4: Do you think what do you think will happen? And
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Speaker 4: they said something that I thought was so interesting and terrible, like, well,
11:30
Speaker 4: what if the reason that there isn't a big rush
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Speaker 4: to confirm, even Trump loyalists is that they just don't
11:36
Speaker 4: want to deal with enforcing this law at all, Like
11:39
Speaker 4: what if they're trying to kind of kill it by
11:41
Speaker 4: a thousand cuts, by just chipping away at things. And
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Speaker 4: I thought it was a really astute and stressful observation
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Speaker 4: to make, because this is the thing, right as it's
11:54
Speaker 4: not all like this onslaught against workers' safety and human
11:59
Speaker 4: rights and every possible decent thing that people are able to,
12:04
Speaker 4: you know, derive from this government. Like so much of
12:08
Speaker 4: it has been big, bombastic, like big fights, but a
12:12
Speaker 4: lot of it has been happening behind the scenes. And
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Speaker 4: these little agencies, these smaller commissions boards, federal like places
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Speaker 4: with Beije offices that they're not as exciting, they're not
12:24
Speaker 4: as photogenic, they're not as you know, they're not going
12:27
Speaker 4: to get headlines necessarily, but they really have a very
12:32
Speaker 4: important role to play. There's a reason they exist, and
12:36
Speaker 4: they have an impact on people's lives, like for example,
12:39
Speaker 4: the fms HRC, Like they are coal miners who are
12:44
Speaker 4: waiting for like waiting for cases to be heard. There's
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Speaker 4: workers who filed discrimination complaints over them being discriminated against
12:53
Speaker 4: for calling out safety issues at work. Like those are people.
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Speaker 4: Now there's civil penalty cases in which EMSHA has like
13:04
Speaker 4: basically called like found that a mind is unsafe, that
13:07
Speaker 4: it's engaging in unsafe practices or violating safety practices. Someone
13:13
Speaker 4: has to do something about that, you know, Like there's
13:17
Speaker 4: I know it can be a little like red tape,
13:18
Speaker 4: EU and bureaucracy and all of this. It's it's a
13:22
Speaker 4: little convoluted, like learning reading up on this stuff enough
13:26
Speaker 4: to write a useful article took a little bit of time.
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Speaker 4: But that's almost kind of part of it, right, Like
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Speaker 4: what they do in the shadows.
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Speaker 2: Yea, and and that that work done in like the
13:37
Speaker 2: labor done in the shadows in these government agencies that
13:42
Speaker 2: you're talking about. You know, it is such a shame
13:45
Speaker 2: that you know, we have so little understanding of that,
13:48
Speaker 2: and the media is as culpable for that as anybody.
13:53
Speaker 2: But your average citizen doesn't understand that, and thus, like
13:57
Speaker 2: you know, can't see past the word and the hatred
14:00
Speaker 2: for the concept of government bureaucracy. And so when these
14:05
Speaker 2: cuts from Doze or Trump or you know, like wherever
14:09
Speaker 2: they are, you know, the firings from Trump, the cuts
14:11
Speaker 2: from Doge, like people just see, yeah, like a sort
14:15
Speaker 2: of attack on that bureaucracy. But they're not seeing the
14:19
Speaker 2: people who are responsible for resolving these disputes and claims
14:24
Speaker 2: that you know, matter a hell of a lot to
14:27
Speaker 2: coal miners who were you know, spending their lives underground
14:30
Speaker 2: and you know, like trying not to be taken advantage
14:32
Speaker 2: of for it they matter to you know. I interviewed
14:35
Speaker 2: some whistleblowers who were both fired from HUD the Department
14:40
Speaker 2: of Housing in Urban Development earlier this year or last year,
14:44
Speaker 2: and they were whistleblowers talking about how that agency has
14:48
Speaker 2: effectively become defunct and like the people like them who
14:52
Speaker 2: were lawyers who were responsible for ensuring that like battered
14:56
Speaker 2: women and seeing you know, people in life, you know,
14:58
Speaker 2: threatening situations, get the housing that they need, that they're
15:02
Speaker 2: not being exploited by you know, like landlords or you know,
15:06
Speaker 2: anything like these are real people some you know in
15:10
Speaker 2: life critical like circumstances that you know, all of that,
15:15
Speaker 2: like you said, Kim is now just being sort of
15:17
Speaker 2: hushed and silenced at the same time that the media
15:21
Speaker 2: industry and the whole media ecosystem is going haywire. And
15:25
Speaker 2: so it's a real crisis. But you are, you know,
15:29
Speaker 2: one of you know, like again those sterling examples of
15:32
Speaker 2: like a committed journalist who has maintained through the chaos,
15:38
Speaker 2: a commitment to the coal miners that you report on
15:42
Speaker 2: the industry, the working conditions in this industry, the environmental
15:46
Speaker 2: conditions you've been doing excellent reporting on, like the black
15:50
Speaker 2: lung crisis in this country. We connected, you know, like
15:54
Speaker 2: and work together here at the Real News for years
15:57
Speaker 2: as you were reporting on the Warrior met strike in Alabama.
16:02
Speaker 2: So with all of that knowledge and like you know,
16:06
Speaker 2: first hand contact with people in the industry, I wanted
16:10
Speaker 2: to sort of like ask before I let you go,
16:13
Speaker 2: like what state was the coal industry and coal workers?
16:18
Speaker 2: You know, like in going into the second Trump presidency,
16:22
Speaker 2: and like, how has you know whatever the hell this
16:25
Speaker 2: administration is doing, Like for all it says it loves
16:29
Speaker 2: coal miners, like is it actually helping coal miners? Is
16:31
Speaker 2: it helping the coal industry? Like what is what's actually
16:34
Speaker 2: happening here?
16:35
Speaker 4: It's interesting. I think back to the beginning, I guess
16:39
Speaker 4: of this, not even this. I think back to like
16:41
Speaker 4: twenty twenty twenty one, in the earlier days of these things,
16:45
Speaker 4: and I remember talking to a miner in Alabama who
16:48
Speaker 4: had said, you know, just so you know, I'm a
16:50
Speaker 4: Trump guy, and like he brought like coal prices have
16:53
Speaker 4: been super high since he got in, and I was like, oh, well,
16:56
Speaker 4: have you seen any of that?
16:57
Speaker 1: And he's like, well, well no, man am. I was
17:00
Speaker 1: like okay.
17:01
Speaker 4: And that's sort of that always plays in the back
17:05
Speaker 4: of my mind when it comes to this reporting, because
17:07
Speaker 4: it's it is, I think a true thing that coal
17:13
Speaker 4: industry interests have found the Trump administration to be positive
17:18
Speaker 4: at the very least just in terms of like skewing
17:23
Speaker 4: the playing field in their favor and trying to destroy
17:27
Speaker 4: previously approved and funded renewable energy projects, like they've been
17:32
Speaker 4: pushing this coal line incredibly strongly, uh against any anyone's
17:39
Speaker 4: conventional wisdom or scientific wisdom really just like a fool's errand,
17:44
Speaker 4: and that's endeared them to the industry, you know, movers
17:47
Speaker 4: and shakers. But for the workers, it's it's been bad.
17:52
Speaker 4: It has not been bad. Wages haven't gone up, the
17:56
Speaker 4: jobs aren't coming back there. I think we're dan too
17:59
Speaker 4: a bad probably less at this point. I think last year,
18:02
Speaker 4: the year before, it was about thirty three thousand coal
18:04
Speaker 4: miners left in the country.
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Speaker 1: If I double check the stats now, I'm sure it's
18:08
Speaker 1: gone down.
18:10
Speaker 4: And some of the big worker safety wins that coal
18:15
Speaker 4: miners across any political persuasion because it is not a monolith.
18:18
Speaker 4: It's not just a whole bunch of white guys voting
18:20
Speaker 4: for Trump. I've met plenty of people that do not
18:24
Speaker 4: fit that description, and have talked to union representatives for
18:27
Speaker 4: the UAW that are very aware that they have a
18:30
Speaker 4: pretty diverse coalition of well not even coalition, just a
18:33
Speaker 4: diverse group of people in their union. Retirees are one thing,
18:38
Speaker 4: but the younger folks and other generations, you'd be surprised.
18:42
Speaker 4: But a lot of the work that has been doing
18:45
Speaker 4: around these sort of community issues, like the black lung
18:49
Speaker 4: crisis like worker safety, like pensions like black lung payments
18:55
Speaker 4: for out of this fund, of the existing black lung
18:57
Speaker 4: Benefits fund for workers and for workers who have been
19:00
Speaker 4: diagnosed and disabled by black lawn like. A lot of
19:04
Speaker 4: that work actually started bearing some fruit during the Biden
19:08
Speaker 4: administration because there weren't as many roadblocks.
19:13
Speaker 1: One thing I learned through.
19:14
Speaker 4: Reporting on agency doings that I hadn't known that much
19:18
Speaker 4: about before I kind of dove in.
19:20
Speaker 1: Was how pivotal it is that.
19:25
Speaker 4: There is a nominally at least pro worker, or not
19:29
Speaker 4: cartoonishly anti worker, at least a person in the Executive
19:33
Speaker 4: chaired and the administration. Because a lot of the people,
19:36
Speaker 4: especially pre Trump purges, that work in these agencies are
19:39
Speaker 4: just trying to get shit done, but their ability to
19:42
Speaker 4: do so can be either helped or hindered by who's
19:47
Speaker 4: in charge. So, for example, in twenty twenty four, at
19:50
Speaker 4: the very end of the Biden administration, we got miners
19:56
Speaker 4: and their advocates.
19:57
Speaker 1: They did the real work.
19:59
Speaker 4: They finally got this new silica exposure rule basically like approved.
20:06
Speaker 4: There's all these the process is a whole situation, but
20:08
Speaker 4: we'll just say they got it right.
20:11
Speaker 1: They got this new.
20:11
Speaker 4: Rule that was gonna limit the amount of silica dust
20:15
Speaker 4: that coal miners could be exposed to during their workdays.
20:18
Speaker 4: This is not a new thing. Since nineteen seventy four,
20:21
Speaker 4: we've known that silica dust is toxic, twenty times more
20:25
Speaker 4: toxic than col dust. It is the absolute biggest factor
20:29
Speaker 4: driving the uptick in black lung cases and severe black
20:33
Speaker 4: lung cases among coal miners, especially those that are much
20:38
Speaker 4: younger have much less time underground. We're talking late twenties, thirties,
20:42
Speaker 4: forties folks dealing with the most severe and abilitating form
20:47
Speaker 4: of this disease. Silica is the biggest reason, and up
20:51
Speaker 4: until this rule finally got through, coal miners were legally
20:55
Speaker 4: able to be exposed to twice as much silica dust
20:58
Speaker 4: as any other work in the entire country. Gasilica is
21:02
Speaker 4: something that exists in a lot of other professions. There's
21:05
Speaker 4: construction workers, courts, countertop workers in California that are dealing
21:09
Speaker 4: with their own silicosis crisis right now.
21:12
Speaker 1: But we know all this.
21:14
Speaker 4: Workers have been trying to do something about this for
21:16
Speaker 4: a really long time. Finally got to the finish line
21:19
Speaker 4: of twenty twenty four. It was supposed to be implemented
21:21
Speaker 4: April twenty twenty five. What happened between those two things
21:25
Speaker 4: happening Trump got elected all of a sudden, that rule
21:31
Speaker 4: very specific, very much not something the coal industry wanted
21:35
Speaker 4: to deal with because it required them to follow some
21:37
Speaker 4: more rules and maybe spend a couple more dollars on
21:41
Speaker 4: safety equipment and engineering controls and ate into their profits
21:45
Speaker 4: the tiniest bit. They didn't want anything to do with it.
21:48
Speaker 4: And so this rule that took decades of activism and
21:51
Speaker 4: lot being organized and by coal miners and public health
21:55
Speaker 4: advocates and science like everybody who wasn't a total dickhead,
21:59
Speaker 4: we're trying to get this through. And it started, it
22:03
Speaker 4: kept being delayed, just kicked down. First I think it
22:06
Speaker 4: was a three month delay. Then it was like a
22:08
Speaker 4: six month delay. They just kept getting delayed the implementation
22:10
Speaker 4: and enforcement to the point where the most recent development
22:15
Speaker 4: is that it's been basically pulled back for more judicial review,
22:20
Speaker 4: further study, more changes for essentially they're going to make
22:23
Speaker 4: it easier for the coal industry interest to commit and
22:26
Speaker 4: weaken it and just chop it all up like this
22:28
Speaker 4: is something that should not be controversial no matter what
22:31
Speaker 4: values you have making it so that fewer people get
22:35
Speaker 4: black lung seems pretty inventsive, seems like a pretty a
22:40
Speaker 4: decent win, even at the point where some like coal
22:43
Speaker 4: state senators like full on Trump zombies came out earlier
22:47
Speaker 4: during the Doge era when Niosh and like black lung
22:51
Speaker 4: monitoring services were getting slashed out, They're like, wait, maybe
22:55
Speaker 4: can we keep some of that? And the administration pulled back,
22:58
Speaker 4: so I'll had to say things have gotten worse. They've
23:02
Speaker 4: gotten worse. It's just as dangerous, if not worse, because
23:06
Speaker 4: there's this this uh emphasis on coal, like this emsis
23:10
Speaker 4: on trying to open new minds and new coal far facilities,
23:14
Speaker 4: Like it's it's not gonna be good for anyone but
23:16
Speaker 4: the people who have been making money off of these
23:18
Speaker 4: workers blood, sweat, tears and lung tissue for centuries now.
23:24
Speaker 4: And it's really disappointing, Like we don't expect anything good
23:28
Speaker 4: to come out of the kind of people that Trump
23:30
Speaker 4: puts in charge of these agencies or Trump himself. But
23:33
Speaker 4: it's like, what is the constituency for killmore coal miners?
23:39
Speaker 4: Who is asking him and them to like make it
23:43
Speaker 4: harder for workers to have safety discrimination cases? Hurt, like,
23:49
Speaker 4: who's voting for that? It's not like these are big popular,
23:53
Speaker 4: like no one's like, you know, who really is it
23:56
Speaker 4: deserves a come up into those fat cats at the
23:58
Speaker 4: f M, s r C.
24:05
Speaker 1: It's like like who is this?
24:06
Speaker 4: Or there's like one coal guy somewhere who's like, yeah,
24:10
Speaker 4: we got them, and it's it's just unfortunate. And I've
24:14
Speaker 4: been reporting on this for a long time. This is
24:15
Speaker 4: like one of my my things I report on. It
24:17
Speaker 4: ended up being that guy and the one thing that well,
24:21
Speaker 4: there's a lot of things that make me sad, but
24:23
Speaker 4: one thing that makes me sad. I'm frustrated when I,
24:27
Speaker 4: you know, share stores on social media, like here's this
24:30
Speaker 4: article I wrote, please clap uh. There is always always
24:34
Speaker 4: some people, some commenters who are like, well.
24:37
Speaker 1: They voted for this, Well that's what they get. Who
24:39
Speaker 1: do they vote for? Who they vote for?
24:41
Speaker 4: And it's that has been a recurring theme ever since
24:45
Speaker 4: I first started writing about coal miners gosh, almost like
24:48
Speaker 4: six seven years ago. There's a real lack of empathy
24:52
Speaker 4: and a real sort of spitefulness from some folks who
24:58
Speaker 4: who just assume that coal miners are all the same,
25:00
Speaker 4: they're all the same kind of person. They all voted
25:02
Speaker 4: the same way, and it's it's just disappointing to sing
25:07
Speaker 4: because I guarantee you no one voted to get black
25:12
Speaker 4: lung and lose the ability to breathe or play with
25:15
Speaker 4: their grandkids or their kids, you know, people being sold
25:19
Speaker 4: a bill of goods. I don't think anybody deserves to
25:22
Speaker 4: die because they voted for someone who lied to them.
25:25
Speaker 2: No, I wholeheartedly agree. And it's like the exact same
25:29
Speaker 2: thing I say to people who say those exact same
25:33
Speaker 2: comments when I'm reporting from like East Palaestino, Ohio, or
25:37
Speaker 2: that train derail, They're like, well, they voted for that,
25:39
Speaker 2: they deserve it. I was like, are you kidding me?
25:41
Speaker 2: Do you see what they're going through? Like how could
25:43
Speaker 2: you say that on a video that is showing you
25:47
Speaker 2: that they're dying? Like have we lost so much of
25:52
Speaker 2: our humanity that like we can't even empathize with each
25:56
Speaker 2: other on that basic level. And again, and I could
26:00
Speaker 2: talk to you about this for days, but I know
26:02
Speaker 2: I got to let you go. And I want to
26:04
Speaker 2: underscore for people that that is why Kim's work is
26:06
Speaker 2: so important and why we work so well together with
26:10
Speaker 2: Kim here at the real News is because like if
26:13
Speaker 2: you're not tending to that human stuff, then you're not
26:16
Speaker 2: actually interested in the truth, right, You're interested in an
26:19
Speaker 2: argument about the truth and how you can twist the
26:21
Speaker 2: truth into something else for your own purpose. We are
26:25
Speaker 2: reporters who care about human beings, So like we go
26:28
Speaker 2: out and get the truth, you know, wherever it lives,
26:31
Speaker 2: in the complex lives of complex people like the ones
26:36
Speaker 2: that Kim is talking about, and Kim with just like
26:39
Speaker 2: a two minute sort of like maybe kind of wrap up.
26:42
Speaker 2: I wanted to end on that note, not asking you
26:45
Speaker 2: to speak for anyone or any group of people, but
26:47
Speaker 2: just any points you want to impress upon people who
26:50
Speaker 2: are thinking that way, especially in an election year. Well,
26:53
Speaker 2: they voted for that, Why should I care about that? Like,
26:56
Speaker 2: what do you want them to know about? What black
26:58
Speaker 2: lung actually does to your body? You want them to
27:00
Speaker 2: know about, like what it's actually like to work in
27:02
Speaker 2: a coal miner, live in a coal mining community. Just
27:05
Speaker 2: anything you want to leave folks with before we let
27:08
Speaker 2: you go and wrap up.
27:10
Speaker 4: So years ago I made friends with a retired coal
27:14
Speaker 4: miner named Danny Witt, and he got diagnosed with black
27:19
Speaker 4: lung in nineteen eighty eight, that's the year I was born.
27:23
Speaker 4: So for his entire, my entire life, his lungs have
27:28
Speaker 4: been struggling to function. He's had a hard time walking.
27:32
Speaker 4: He had to stop doing a job that he works
27:36
Speaker 4: to care for his family and put food on the table.
27:40
Speaker 4: And he kind of got off easy in a way,
27:44
Speaker 4: which is a wild way to frame it. But Danny's
27:48
Speaker 4: lungs are full of coal dust. I've met people my age.
27:52
Speaker 4: I'm thirty eight. I met people my age and a
27:54
Speaker 4: little bit younger who have lungs full of silica and
28:00
Speaker 4: they can't breathe on their own. They can't really walk anymore.
28:06
Speaker 4: If you've seen photos of what along with black lung
28:09
Speaker 4: coal miners numerconiosis, it's a government name. It literally turns black.
28:16
Speaker 4: There's a man named John Moore, a black father of
28:19
Speaker 4: three in West Virginia who he wasn't even a career
28:23
Speaker 4: coal miner. He picked up some shifts while he was
28:26
Speaker 4: doing other stuff. He had a wig shop. He does
28:28
Speaker 4: events now like he was all over the place. He
28:29
Speaker 4: was hustling and he has he's dying and he's forty two,
28:38
Speaker 4: and I don't think he deserves that. I don't think
28:43
Speaker 4: he voted for Trump, but he might have. I didn't ask.
28:46
Speaker 4: I asked what he was doing to take care of
28:48
Speaker 4: himself and how his daughters were coping.
28:51
Speaker 1: And I think there is so much.
28:53
Speaker 4: Humanity that is missed when we give into these kind
28:59
Speaker 4: of divisions in this manufactured tribalism. Like I know there's
29:03
Speaker 4: people that I report on that probably think I am
29:06
Speaker 4: just the worst, godless commie piece of trash.
29:10
Speaker 1: And you know what, join the club. I've been online
29:14
Speaker 1: for a long time.
29:15
Speaker 4: Not everybody has to. You don't have to like me.
29:17
Speaker 4: I still don't think you need to choke to death
29:19
Speaker 4: like they might wonder, like, why does some like some
29:21
Speaker 4: tattooed broad from Jersey going down to Alabama all the
29:25
Speaker 4: time talking to coal miners. Well, because they remind me
29:27
Speaker 4: of my dad. He works in construction. He has terrible
29:31
Speaker 4: political opinions, but there's a lot of things we do
29:34
Speaker 4: agree on, and I've been able to move them a
29:37
Speaker 4: little bit towards the way to see in the world.
29:39
Speaker 1: I see it.
29:40
Speaker 4: Not that it's the right way, but it makes sense
29:42
Speaker 4: to me. I think we need to give each other
29:45
Speaker 4: a little bit more grace, though, and it is easy
29:48
Speaker 4: for me to say that I'm a white broad from Jersey.
29:52
Speaker 4: There's a lot of structural things. There's a lot of
29:54
Speaker 4: racist things. There's a lot of stuff that I don't
29:56
Speaker 4: have to think about that other folks have to think
29:58
Speaker 4: about because of who they are, how they're born, where
30:01
Speaker 4: they're from, how they identify. And I understand why some
30:04
Speaker 4: people would be like, well, I don't have any sympathy
30:06
Speaker 4: for these people.
30:07
Speaker 1: Why would I care?
30:08
Speaker 4: They don't think that I deserve to exist? And you
30:12
Speaker 4: know that's fair. You're allowed to think that. I get
30:16
Speaker 4: why you would. I would just ask, if you have
30:20
Speaker 4: the time to think about it a little bit, maybe
30:25
Speaker 4: nobody should suffer. Maybe there's some things we can sort
30:29
Speaker 4: out after the revolution, if we just have to ensure
30:33
Speaker 4: that enough of us make it there to have time
30:36
Speaker 4: to sit down and have those conversations.
30:43
Speaker 2: Oh, rh gang, that's going to wrap things up for
30:46
Speaker 2: us today. I want to thank our guests, the indomitable
30:49
Speaker 2: Kim Kelly, freelance journalist and labor writer. Go find Kim's
30:54
Speaker 2: book Fight Like Hell, The Untold History of American Labor
30:57
Speaker 2: and follow more of her writing using the links that
30:59
Speaker 2: we provided in the show notes for this episode, and
31:02
Speaker 2: of course, I want to thank you all for listening,
31:05
Speaker 2: and I want to thank you for caring. We'll see
31:07
Speaker 2: y'all back here next time for another episode of Working People,
31:11
Speaker 2: And in the meantime, go explore all the great work
31:14
Speaker 2: that we're doing at the Real News Network across all
31:17
Speaker 2: our different platforms, and we're doing grassroots reporting that lifts
31:20
Speaker 2: up the voices and stories from the front lines of struggle.
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Speaker 2: this by going to the realnews dot com forward slash,
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Speaker 2: donate and becoming a supporter today. I promise you guys,
31:35
Speaker 2: it really makes a difference. I'm Maximilian Alvarez. Take care
31:39
Speaker 2: of yourselves, take care of each other. Solidarity forever.
31:49
Speaker 6: When my phace you no longer see. I live on, Yes,
31:52
Speaker 6: I live on wherever be going. We're going to roll
31:57
Speaker 6: the union on some Yes, I'll live on whereever.
32:03
Speaker 3: I'm hungry, hungry, ill, we m.
32:05
Speaker 1: Just as homeless.
32:06
Speaker 6: Homework can be its song. I live on, Yes, I
32:11
Speaker 6: live on Well, mean things are happening in this land.
32:15
Speaker 4: It's read a song.
32:16
Speaker 6: I live on, Yes, I live on wherever.
32:20
Speaker 1: The book meaning names are happening in this land?
32:23
Speaker 3: Is read.
32:24
Speaker 6: I live on Yes. I'll live on whatever. The video okay,
32:29
Speaker 6: a media showing I live on Yes, I live on M.
32:34
Speaker 6: If I have help to make this a fit the
32:36
Speaker 6: world to be here M, I'll live on Yes. I'll
32:40
Speaker 6: live on when my body is stolid and in some
32:44
Speaker 6: longs and bred, I'll.
32:46
Speaker 4: Live on Yes.
32:48
Speaker 2: I live on Yes.
32:49
Speaker 3: When my songs in form.
32:52
Speaker 6: Are red, I'll live on Yes.
32:55
Speaker 3: I'll live on
32:58
Speaker 2: M.