Latest / Man in America Podcast / The Banking Cabal’s Gold Rig is CRUMBLING—Global Collapse is Now Inevitable w/ David Jensen

Transcript

The Banking Cabal’s Gold Rig is CRUMBLING—Global Collapse is Now Inevitable w/ David Jensen · Man in America Podcast

• 0:14
  Seth Holehouse: Welcome to Man in America, a voice of reason in a world gone mad. I'm your host, Seth Hullhouse. Something historic just happened the last twenty four hours or so, which is that gold crossed over $3,000 an ounce in its value, which is the first time it's ever happened. Now a lot of people are celebrating and, wow, this is a great thing. It's going up.
• 0:36
  People are fleeing towards hard assets, but there's a lot of speculation as to why. There's also a lot of discussion saying that, well, gold should actually be far higher than that, and silver should be far greater than that. But there's actually something very, very significant that's going on behind the scenes with the banking industry. So my guest today, David Jensen, is an expert in precious metals. He's a mining executive, and he's one of the people that I believe understands the situation with the precious metals markets and the implications that they have better than most people I've ever discussed I've ever interviewed.
• 1:14
  And this interview, which we're playing for you shortly, is honestly and I'm I'm very careful when I say this, but I'd say it's one of the most important discussions I've ever had. And I hope that you can watch the whole show. I hope that you can share it with your friends and family because what David will explain today is something that affects all of us in a very, very significant way, and I'll give you just a little preview of what we're gonna be talking about. So basically, what's been happening with the gold and silver markets is there's been this massive inflow of gold coming into The United States. There's been a lot of speculation.
• 1:56
  Is it is it going into Fort Knox? Are we going back to a gold standard? Are they revaluing the gold here in America? But what we've also seen in the past few weeks is the same thing happening with silver, not necessarily flowing into United States specifically, but being pulled out of the banking system. Now if you look at the LBMA, is the London Bullion Market Association, As David will explain the interview, this is a an organization association that was set up basically to allow the central banks to manipulate the price of gold and silver because gold and silver have always been the warning signs to show when the money supply had the fiat currencies have been blown up and printed way, way too much.
• 2:41
  And so when the LBMA was created and it was given dominion, over by you know, to the Bank of England who controls LBMA, it gave them a mechanism to silence the warning system that was supposed to be warning people about the massive increase currency and the true devaluation of the currency through the overinflation. And so according to David, what we're witnessing right now, and he'll explain all the different indicators that show this, is that this paper market, this system of people that have been buying paper silver, right, these promissory den notes promising delivery of silver, that this paper market is nearing its end, it's nearing its collapse, the illusion of it is collapsing, and what this means is so significant because this paper market, as David will explain, is the it's what's covered up the warning system that shows when the currencies are actually near collapsing. And so we're not looking at just an event of thinking, oh, maybe silver's gonna go up two or three times in price or gold's gonna go up an extra thousand dollars an ounce. It's so much bigger than that. It is about the snowball, this avalanche that's finally reaching its peak, its its greatest strength that will then wipe out the entire debt market.
• 4:02
  And so and, you know, keep, you know, keep your ears open and listen to this, you know, with with apprehension. Listen to it open mind with an open minded perspective, but what I've come to with this and also my own research is that we are on the verge of a massive reset in the global financial system. This isn't about just some small thing or about maybe a recession in America. We're on the verge of a significant significant change. And this is this is also why I've been such a proponent of talking about gold and silver.
• 4:37
  Right? This right here is the the 10 ounce silver bar. I keep it on my desk as a reminder that this is real money. And as you'll see in the discussion with David, we talk about this and how, like, this when when the music stops, this is what you want to have. And I'll let you make up your own decision.
• 4:55
  I'm not here to sell you something. It's about looking at how we can make it through and make it into the future properly. Because when this reset happens, not only does a real value, the real price discovery happen with silver. Not only that, but you're also looking at a real discovery of what our currency is actually worth, which is close to nothing. And this is a massive massive change happening in our society.
• 5:25
  So I hope that you enjoy this interview. It's a little bit frightening. I'll I'll be honest with you because if if you're looking at this with an open mind and you're really piecing together the story that David walks us through in understanding these markets and how they've been manipulated, it is frightening because we're looking at a a change in our way of life that is unlike something we've ever experienced. This makes the Great Depression look like a bad day where you stubbed your toe. And not to say that everyone's screwed, but I'm not I'm not implying that there's there's ways to get through this.
• 5:58
  And I think that with faith and with God, all things you can get through. However, I just want you to be aware of what I truly believe to be coming. So I hope you enjoy this. Just a reminder that every show that I do is a video like you're seeing, but it's also I also do as a podcast. So if you wanna listen instead of watch, just go to your favorite podcast app, Spotify, Apple, etcetera.
• 6:21
  Search for man in America. You'll find me there. Just hit that subscribe button. And this interview, past this introduction is actually gonna be audio only, so David doesn't do video interviews. And I've I've done before where I've shown my video and the guest is just a picture.
• 6:35
  It's just kinda awkward as I'm just gonna know, if I'm listening to audio only, I'm I'm staring off in the space. I'm thinking, so the whole thing is the whole interview will just be audio only. Also, a picture of the screenshot up for you on there. But it's it's a very, very, very important discussion. And it helps it helps on it helps you understand why precious metals are so important.
• 6:58
  It's not about an investment. It's not about trying to double your money. It's it's about having insurance. It's about getting to the other side of this of this event and being able to survive and thrive. So please enjoy this interview with David Jensen.
• 7:13
  And if you really enjoy it, I encourage you to share it with your friends and family. Honestly, this is this is one of the most important interviews that you can listen to right now, and I guess you'd be the judge of that. Let me know in the comments. If you listen to it and say, you know what, Seth? That was kind of a sham.
• 7:27
  You know, that was a crappy interview. Well, let me know. Right? Maybe I'm maybe I'm some guy that's completely out of touch with reality, but I really believe that this has been one of the most eye opening interviews I've done in a very, very long time, and I think that you'll feel the same. So enjoy the show.
• 7:42
  Mister David Jensen, it is such an honor to have you back on the show. It's been a while, and a lot has happened since our last discussion. So thank you for being here with us today.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: Indeed, Seth. So it's great to see you again and to, to continue. I think it's been about a year and a half or so, so, good to talk again.
• 7:59
  Seth Holehouse: Absolutely. So for folks that aren't familiar with you, I came across you, I think, probably two years ago, you've done an inter interview with SGT report, and I thought, gosh. This guy really knows his stuff. I found your sub stack and was reading a bunch, and it's it's apparent that you really understand, especially the precious metals market. So why don't you just give us just a quick background of of yourself and and how you came to know so much about what's happening with these markets?
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: Okay. Well, it's a bit of a circuitous route that I took, but I was, working as a an aviation engineer, aircraft structures design engineer. I had gone back to university for a couple of postgrad, degrees and then had gotten back into aviation engineering again. Around 2,001, three people within six month period told me that the precious metals, the gold market didn't trade fairly, and I thought that was impossible. I had been filled with concepts of efficient capital market theory thoughts from my from my MBA, and I I dismissed it.
• 9:05
  And then but I found it curious that out of the blue, it's kind of bizarre, right, with gold was at the nadir at the bottom, you know, in in the $25,300 range and that people would be all of a sudden talking about gold. So I did a bit of digging and quite frankly, had six months where I couldn't sleep well because of what I was reading. And it actually drove me from aircraft engineering to move into the precious metal sector. So I'm now running a couple of private gold and silver mining companies, and then, it's been about thirty thousand hours of research, in between then and now into into the gold and silver market. And I I pour out what I find into my Substack, so that people can get a a sense of what's going on there.
• 9:53
  Seth Holehouse: And so your Substack is just jensen david dot substack dot com, which I'll put into the, description as well. And so okay. So we're gonna be talking about a handful of different concepts and some various acronyms, but let's start with the LBMA. And this is one of the the big ones, because when I first started learning about the manipulation of the gold and silver prices and the suppression, it was kind of like, okay. I know that there's this creature from creature from Jekyll Island.
• 10:24
  There's this banking system that's bad. And okay. So they're controlling the prices of gold and silver. Well, how's that work? And, you know, as
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: I Yeah.
• 10:34
  Seth Holehouse: Dove into that more, I I learned more. I started learning about the things like the LBMA and the COMEX.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: And Yeah.
• 10:39
  Seth Holehouse: You know, my background's similar to you. I'm I'm not a finance background, but I've I've gotten into it increasing. I used to be in the the, yeah, I used to be have a precious metals buying business where I buy scrap gold and, you know, diamonds and these kinds of things. And so I have my interaction with it, but it's fascinating to me. But I think that what we'll be talking about today is not just about, okay, here's some commodity and here's why it should be worth more.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 11:04
  Seth Holehouse: But it's much, much bigger than that because it's a commodity that, I mean, in our reality is is at the at the basis of almost all global trade. I mean, it has been for thousands and thousands of years. This is very significant. So, you know, you're gonna be a good teacher for us today, which I know you you you're you're very excellent at writing and teaching with these things. So walk us through what is the LBMA?
• 11:26
  What's it stand for? And how does this kind of manipulation happen, of these prices through the LBMA?
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: Okay. Well, if I if I could take one step back, to the creation, of the London market, I think it would be helpful. From 1971 to 1980, the price of gold went up by 21 times and the price of silver went up by 24 times. And that was a consequence of the central banks running loose currency policy, and inflation was soaring in The US and globally. So what happened was that depending on what your measure is of monthly or weekly in terms of the inflation, but inflation hit a little over 10%.
• 12:20
  And what happened was that as gold and silver were soaring, investors were leaving the debt markets, were leaving the government bond markets. They called them certificates of confiscation because the value of these fixed rate bonds were being eaten up by inflation and rising interest rates, which lowers their value. So, yeah, in the end, the interest rates had to rise to 20% to pull people out of gold and silver and back into the debt markets again, was in the 1980 timeframe. Going forward a few years, so that caused real problems, because it highly limits the ability, two things really, for the central banks to issue currency and spur these investment activities that we see markets or bubbles, if you want to call it that. And it also disables the ability for governments to print currency and to run large deficits.
• 13:27
  So in 1986, the Thatcher government in The UK passed what was called the Big Bang Financial Reform Act. And what it did was it gave oversight of the London gold and silver market, which is and has been for a very long time, the world's largest gold and silver market. It gave oversight of this market to the Bank of England, who are the British, the UK Central Bank and the currency printers.
• 13:58
  Seth Holehouse: So So to I wanna make sure I'm following you. So kind of roughly from the seventies to the eighties when
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. From '71 to '80.
• 14:07
  Seth Holehouse: So '71, once we left the gold standard under Nixon
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 14:10
  Seth Holehouse: The that was when, basically, they could then start printing money unlimited. Right? Because it was no longer tied to a commodity that was limited in its Right. Availability. So as we saw this massive money printing, as you said, we also saw a huge spike in the the price of gold and silver, which was Right.
• 14:29
  Pulling people away because it it made it very obvious that these currencies, these fiat currencies were being in highly inflated, and Yep. People lost confidence in those. And you saw people running to rushing over to precious metals because as a reflection of that inflation of the of the money supply through overprinting Right. The value of these precious metals was also going up, but that presented a problem to the central bankers because if if they increase the the if they keep printing, but these hard assets that are very secure also keep going up, people are gonna be leaving and going to those assets. That became a problem for them in the eighties.
• 15:05
  Is that am I on the same page?
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah. By 1980, the interest rates had gone I mean, it was a terrible recession that happened at the time. It was I mean I mean, Paul Volker, out of work construction workers, were sending pieces of two by four to him by mail as a protest of his policy, and he had a stack of two by fours, you know, people cut off three feet of two by four and put it in the mail with his address on it. And so he got the message that 20% wasn't welcome and that, you know, people's investments and savings had been eaten up. So gold and silver were both the safe haven and they were the warning system.
• 15:46
  Right? When when the price goes from, you know, $41 to to $8.50 on the price of gold, that's a pretty clear signal. They serve essentially as a warning system. What happened in 1986 with this reform act was that there was a liberalizing of the financial markets, but at the very core of it, I believe is this issue of transferring oversight of the gold and silver market, which is the warning system. And they gave control of the central bank money printing warning system to the central bankers.
• 16:25
  Gosh. So they created in 1987, the LBMA was formed, which is the London Bullion Market Association, which is really, it's a trade association. It's not actually the London market, the London gold and silver market, if you wanna be technically correct, can look this up. It's called the London Precious Metals Clearing Limited, the LPMCL. And you can look that up online.
• 16:55
  And today it's basically four banks that run a piece of software that allow the trading of gold and silver in that market. And so a couple of things happened with this creation of this new gold market was that LVMA was this trade association and they wrote up this set of rules, which they call the NIPS code, the non investable products code, because gold and silver aren't investable products, I guess. Wrote this code to guide bankers, these very strict rules for trading in London, but they're purely voluntary, number one. Number two, that the LBMA under the oversight of the Bank of England gave legitimacy to these promissory note contracts in the cash market or the spot market in London. They went from trading actual physical metal to trading promissory notes, and you only had to have the metal if somebody asked for delivery.
• 18:03
  Seth Holehouse: So it's similar to fractional reserve banking, or if I put, you know, a thousand dollars into the local bank, they might only $10 worth of that in the bank. And they'll Right.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Exactly. And if you want to distill it right down, they converted gold and silver from being limited real assets to being unlimited virtual assets. Gold and silver became virtual assets at that point because all you were trading was a promissory note. And so They were way into this crypto stuff.
• 18:34
  Seth Holehouse: So the central bank so the, Bank of England, which is the central bank there, it's almost like, I wanna say, you're you're building a house, and the Yeah. It's it's like the building inspector actually works for the builder. Right? It's it's more, you know, you you there's all kinds of things you could say about the FDA and and approving, you know, medicines, etcetera. So the they gave the central bank that was being harmed through their overprinting of their fiat currency control.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: They were being controlled. They were being controlled by gold and silver.
• 19:06
  Seth Holehouse: I see. Okay. Okay. And then they introduced this paper system where they were able to take what was before a finite resource. You know, there's only so many ounces of gold on Earth, and they were able to basically turn gold into a an almost a fiat asset.
• 19:23
  Right?
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: It was fiat. It became fiat essentially because they just, you know, quietly continue to do what they're doing with what not much fanfare in terms of what the structure of the market is, and it's becomes a con a confidence game or if you wanted to distill it down, a con game in in terms of the gold and silver market. So, you know, I I I liken it to a a nuclear reactor where you turn off the warning systems, and then you run it at a 50% and say, look, no warning lights, everything's good. And that's essentially what's happened is that since, Alan Greenspan came into his position at the Federal Reserve in August of nineteen eighty seven, In late nineteen eighty seven, the LBMA was formed. And then we've launched in, the Greenspan put was formed, which is an insane idea that you blow a bubble and when it pops, you blow a bigger bubble.
• 20:20
  And we've gone through a whole series of these now, and now we're now we're at the stage where people are running into gold and silver because they're finally getting the fact that they've been had.
• 20:33
  Seth Holehouse: And so that's where we're at right now. Right? Is is that correct that right now what's happening is Yeah. You could say almost a run on gold and silver that people are understanding and realizing that their promissory notes aren't worth the paper they're printed on, so they're all rushing to get physical delivery.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: Yep. So just to give you a sense today in London, in the cash market, trading these promissory notes, which used to be bars, but are now just promises to deliver bars, they're trading of the order of 200,000,000 ounces of gold per day, and annual mine production in a year is about 85, 90 million ounces a year.
• 21:19
  Seth Holehouse: So
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: And they're trading 2,400,000,000 ounces of promissory notes for immediate delivery of cash silver. So 2,400,000,000 ounces a day, and annual mine production of silver is about eight thirty million ounces, so about a third of that in a year.
• 21:41
  Seth Holehouse: Wow. So I'm I'm not a a quick math person, but
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: the to three two to three times annual mine production is traded in these promissory notes for immediate bar delivery per day.
• 21:54
  Seth Holehouse: Per day. So that's two to three times the annual that's per day, then we're looking at you know, if you multiply that by 365, we're at
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Or three
• 22:04
  Seth Holehouse: thousands of times. Right?
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: It's insane. It it what it means is is what it means is it's nothing.
• 22:14
  Seth Holehouse: Incredible. And so this system, it works until it doesn't. Right? Like, their ability, like, am I correct understanding that they can only maintain this massive paper market for as long as people believe that that paper actually means something.
• 22:34
  Robert Kiyosaki: If that
• 22:35
  Seth Holehouse: but are are we witnessing right now a a breaking of that? Are we witnessing
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: I think so.
• 22:41
  Seth Holehouse: That the the general public and and these these buyers now understanding that that that paper doesn't mean anything?
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah. To give you an idea, like, the the estimated standing claims for bars in London is of the order of 400,000,000 ounces of gold and 5,000,000,000 ounces of silver in terms of standing claims in the cash market. And when we look at the inventory levels, the metal is clearly not there. So the leverage, Seth, is so great that all you need is at the margins, you need people to start asking for delivery. And that's what we're seeing now in the last three months here is that there's a standing demand for delivery, which allegedly is supposed to be Trump.
• 23:35
  But I don't think so because it's not just gold that's being people are speculating, right, that that well, they're speculating a number of things that it's, you know, Fort Knox being refilled to people trying to, get ahead of the the the Trump Trump tariffs, etcetera, etcetera, and that the majority of the demand is coming from US treasury. But, I mean, it's both gold and silver are seeing demand delivery in in London.
• 24:03
  Seth Holehouse: And I interviewed, Martin Armstrong recently. I'm not sure if you're familiar with his work, and and what he said in talking with his clients and what he's seeing is that it's people that are concerned primarily it's a lot of things, but it's primarily people that are concerned about war breaking out in Europe and that they're moving their assets. They're they're pulling their assets out of Europe into America. That that was one of reasons that he explained the the flow of this these metals in into The United States.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's it's I don't know who exactly what the intentions are, but we it's fairly certain that it's not just one entity doing it. It's many entities. And the inventories I mean, there's a lot of central bank gold being held in London, and they can mask things for a while in terms of of leasing gold into that market to say satiate the immediate demand for delivery, but the real problem appears to be in the silver market. And silver is silver is the kryptonite for any kind of a central bank, a digital currency control scheme.
• 25:17
  Because throughout history, silver was the primary unit of money for day to day trade. If you're buying food or you're buying firewood or transportation or paying rent, it was always done with silver. And the demonetization of silver started in the eighteen hundreds. I mean, it's the crime of '73, right, where they demonetized silver in The US and gold became the definition of the dollar. If you had a debt to pay, you had to pay it with gold.
• 25:50
  Right? And so, I mean, that's what the Wizard of Oz was all about as well. Dorothy's slippers in the original version in in the book of this of the Wizard of Oz, she had silver slippers. And the path of gold, you know, leading to Oz to this never, never land with a guy behind the curtain pulling the lever was a pathway of gold because the gold was held in the money centers and was tightly controlled. It was the money of kings, it wasn't the money of the everyday farmer in Kansas.
• 26:21
  They had silver. So that was the warning. If you reread that book and then you can look up online about the meaning of the Wizard of Oz, it was Frank Baum, the author, was warning people after this crime of '73 where they had demonetized silver and that all you had to do was, you know, believe in yourself and find a bit of strength and and and have the wisdom move forward, you can take control again. But he was trying to spur people on, but it was, Hollywood changed the story to ruby, which totally can free confused the issue. It was a story of silver versus banker gold at the time.
• 26:58
  Seth Holehouse: I see. And so it was the the the gold brick road led you to the man behind the curtain, whereas the silver, you just tap your heels and the silver gives you freedom.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: Right. Because at the time, the silver was tightly held in the major banking centers, and what they were doing was cutting off the availability of gold from the market, which prevented payment of debt and would lead to a bust, and then assets could be bought at pennies for a dollar. It's the old game again. Inflate, collapse, acquire.
• 27:35
  Seth Holehouse: That's how they end up with everything.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 27:40
  Seth Holehouse: And so, with where things are at right now, we've seen, again, you know, a massive drain on the, you know, the the physical gold. Right? Bank of England. They're they're, you know, supposedly, they still have what, 8,000 some odd tons, but they're what the delivery is at what? You know, between four and six weeks now or four to eight weeks or whatever it is.
• 28:05
  I remember that story coming out earlier this year. Yeah. So what do you think is going on? Do they not have the gold? Are they holding on to it?
• 28:13
  Is it leased out? Like, what's what's going on with with the the actual metal supply and what they're what they what they say they have versus the demand of it?
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Well, there has been an intense movement of gold to New York, it's tailing off somewhat, you can see the curve is rounding a little bit, but I think that the real problem that they have because there's so much central bank gold held in London and New York that the metal can be leased into the market, which basically is a band aid, which covers it up, covers up the problem, right? Because the traders who have sold these paper contracts, they borrow the gold from the central banks at an interest rate, and then they make delivery on the gold, and the problem notionally goes away, but it it doesn't go away ultimately because you've gotta you've gotta go buy that metal to pay it back to the people that you leased it from. So it is a deflection, it's a temporary containment. But the real issue appears to me to be in the silver market in London and it's ongoing, day to day there is a chronic and there is a serious problem in the silver market there. Just to give you an idea, there's been about 130,000,000 ounces of silver drawn out of the stockpiles in London, and that's left about seven twenty million ounces in London, the vaults there, the visible vaults.
• 29:51
  But the issue is that outside of the exchange traded funds, there's only about 200,000,000 ounces of silver left in the vaults in London. Now, is silver elsewhere in the world that could be shipped to London, but we're seeing that this is not happening at an adequate speed, number one. So just think about this, there's 200,000,000 ounces left and we're seeing on a daily basis, a draw of between three and five million ounces from the London stockpiles on a continuing basis right now.
• 30:26
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• 31:11
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• 31:27
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• 31:40
  Speaker 2: So if you use 4,000,000 ounces, if that would continue linearly, that would give you fifty days of supply left. But it's not just that, Seth, it's that the 200,000,000 ounces that are sitting in London outside of the exchange traded funds, that's what I call the float, that 200,000,000 ounces, a lot of that is just held by private entities who want to store their silver in a vault. And so you have that's that's what's called the float because it's not in the exchange traded fund, but there's another concept called the free float, which is what is really available to market. Right? What is liquid?
• 32:22
  And this week, we've seen what's called the implied lease rate. That's what you have to pay to borrow the metal. But we've seen that surge upwards to approaching 10% to borrow silver in London. And the implied lease rate, which is a calculation, there is also the real lease rate, which is what you have to pay a bank, the real lease rate in gold recently was twice the implied lease rate. What we're seeing here with this 9.5%, ten % lease rate is that the lease rate is notionally approaching 20% to borrow silver in London, which is punitive.
• 33:00
  The silver, by the way, the lease rate has to be paid back in metal. The interest that you pay is not paid in fiat dollars, it's paid in metal. My sense, Seth, is that there's not 200,000,000 ounces float, but there's probably of the order of maybe 10 or 20,000,000 ounces of free float of what's really available to market. Now think about go back to that number again that I mentioned about the open interest or the standing claims in the market of 5,000,000,000 ounces. 5,000,000,000 versus five, ten, 15 million ounces.
• 33:41
  And you can see how that leverage is causing a problem and why it's causing the lease rate to approach what we think is probably 20% right now.
• 33:54
  Seth Holehouse: Because that that high lease rate is reflective of them not really it's almost like if you're leasing out cars and you're running low on inventory to lease out, you're gonna you're gonna spike up the rate of those cars you're renting out. Right? Because it's Right.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: If you want yeah. You wanna borrow something that's in short supply, it's gonna get more and more expensive. So I mean, there is silver in in Switzerland and other places, and that's been the argument is that, well, yeah, metal flows out of London, but it also flows into London. True. But the lease rates telling us that it's not flowing fast enough.
• 34:29
  So we have to watch this on a daily basis, but we can see from the New York Commodity Exchange, the COMEX, that is a futures market, it was never meant to be physical, but there is a provision there to take physical delivery in order to have the futures price mean anything. And that is called the exchange for physical, the EFP contract. What that does is it allows people to take one of their futures contracts and convert it into a bar delivery contract in London. And we're seeing every day three to 5,000,000 ounces of silver being converted from futures to London delivery every day.
• 35:09
  Seth Holehouse: So make sure I'm understanding correctly. So the COMEX where they can trade on futures, basically saying that
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 35:15
  Seth Holehouse: Okay, silver is $30 today. I'm gonna trade on it. I'm gonna place a a hedge against it, say Yep. Of it being, say, $35 a month from now, hypothetically.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 35:26
  Seth Holehouse: Or Right. And so they can they're they're trading the same, you know, same way we people do with stocks. Right? And there's, you know, shorting stocks, and there's all kind of same methods within the stock market. But Yep.
• 35:38
  As you're saying that the COMEX, though, you still have that principle that you can then at any point or you I'm sure there's there's specifications how it works, but you can say, okay, instead of trading the futures, I wanna actually just have delivery of the physical. So you can opt out of you can take your your money that's been in these futures contracts, and you can convert it to physical. That physical then is delivered or sent by the LBMA. So when you when you demand physical, that physical is coming from the London vaults. Is that correct?
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Not from the LBMA. Remember, that's a trade association.
• 36:09
  Seth Holehouse: Oh, I see. So it's coming out of London banks.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: From the London gold and silver market.
• 36:13
  Seth Holehouse: I okay. Okay.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So every day so and by the way, there's about a forty five to sixty day delivery delay of silver getting to New York because they're shipping at Transocean on a freighter. So but we're seeing currently every day is an additional three to 5,000,000 ounces being stood for delivery in London with these EFP contracts on a daily basis. And I mean, there's already been about 130,000,000 ounces of silver shipped to New York from London. There's another forty five to sixty days in transit and there's an additional, every single day, additional three to 5,000,000 ounces standing for delivery.
• 37:02
  Every day, it's like, it's this, you know, Chinese water torture, you want to call it. Anglo water torture, basically. The problem is not getting better, and I keep thinking about that 5,000,000,000 ounce overhang in that market, which is watching this stuff drip, drip, drip being pulled out, and then you're watching that accelerating lease rate, which is telling us that insufficient metal is flowing in, and then it becomes the old saying that there is no sense in panicking unless you are first, And you think about that 5,000,000,000 ounces standing there, they're being at the margins, they're being mobilized to take delivery as well. So the setup here is, know, in the natural systems, it's called criticality theory, but it's like when an avalanche starts, it just it's a crack and the whole thing slides. Or or you add sugar to a mound, you know, or a grain of sand to a mound, eventually, it's just one more grain of sand, then the whole thing lets go.
• 38:07
  I think the setup there is very similar in the London market is we've got this enormous overhang of claims. We've got this steady drip, drip, drip of withdrawals, 130,000,000 ounces plus whatever's in transit plus an extra three to 5,000,000 ounces a day, versus the visible stocks in London vaults of 200,000,000 ounces, an unknown amount in Switzerland, which is available, but the lease rate is telling us that not enough is available. I think that the price action that we're starting to see in the markets is becoming more and more real. It's more and more reflecting true price discovery of supply and demand. And when it hits fully, I think you're going to see the price moving in terms of multiples, not five or 10%, but in multiples of the current price.
• 39:02
  Because all of a sudden, you have instantaneous reversion to true price discovery away from this adultered, you know, trading of these promissory notes. That's what's failing is this Wizard of Oz promissory note gold and silver trading system.
• 39:23
  Seth Holehouse: So and I know it's it's hard to even speculate on this, but when you say multiples, and and we're looking at the difference between the paper market versus the physical market and obviously, it's easy to say, oh, well, if you convert the paper market all into physical then oh, yes, silver should be worth, you know, $300 an ounce or something, you know, kind of crazy like that, which would obviously it wouldn't play out like that. But
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:49
  Seth Holehouse: What what do you think what do you think silver should be at right now with no manipulation right now? What do you think silver should be priced at per ounce?
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: I fall I've I've fallen into my own trap here, actually, because by saying by saying multiples, it reverts to a fiat pricing.
• 40:10
  Seth Holehouse: I know. And that's a hard
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: part, isn't it? Right. Because the way I view things is what they've created this global $300,000,000,000,000 debt edifice, right, and the debt is burning right now. That's the smoke that some people can smell, but the debt system what they did was shut off gold and silver and then the central bankers using debt currency blew this $300,000,000,000,000 global debt currency and asset bubble. The debt system is in collapse right now, and so are the inflated asset values.
• 40:48
  And what stands in the end is gold and silver. So I and and I'm not trying to be cute, but in the end, the critical thing is is that that you have the gold and the silver. Because what you what you always get with with fiat currencies, and even Greenspan admitted this, you always have currency revulsion in the end. And it's not a question of how much currency can I get for it, but do I have the gold and silver money that allows me to buy the critical assets when this burning stack of debt comes down?
• 41:26
  Seth Holehouse: That makes sense because it it's and I it's funny because I've asked a lot of different experts, you know, these similar questions, and it's so hard well, it's like you're you're asking me to measure something with the faulty measuring stick. Exactly. There's a story of I think it was during the Great Depression that there was a bellhop in, San Francisco or something that worked for a hotel. And then one day, he received a a 1 ounce gold coin as a tip. And he kept that gold coin, and then the story was I'm not sure if it's true.
• 41:55
  I believe it to be based upon the different resources I've looked into, but that after the Great Depression hit, he was able to then buy the entire hotel with that single coin. And I think that's that's the way to look at this. Right?
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: Right. It's not it's not how do you measure the value of of the virtuous and the real asset in terms of the fraudulent and failing other asset. Right? It's the issue is, do you have the metal? And so in the short term, you know, I think it's gonna scale multiples.
• 42:31
  But in the longer term, which by the way may only be six months or a year, nobody knows the way nobody knows the timing of this, but we do know that everything is stacked so intensely that it could fail catastrophically. And so I think that the key is not to scale what you have in terms of what the price of the gold and silver is in terms of the failed debt currency unit, which has been abused, but just to make sure that you have the physical virtual monetary asset in your hands.
• 43:06
  Seth Holehouse: So it's not as much about saying, oh, well, I've got a hundred thousand dollars in in one ounce silver coins, you know, buried in my backyard. It's not about valuing it like that. It's more so in in looking at it from the perspective that let's just say that same, you know, amount of ounces. Right? Or say, you've, you know, say, you've got, say, 5,000 ounces of silver buried in your backyard, hypothetically.
• 43:29
  It's not about what that silver's worth or what it would hypothetically be worth as measured against a fiat currency, you know, say, three years from now. It's about the fact that, say, three years from now that, say, 5,000 ounces could buy a whole apartment complex.
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, yeah. Like, Adam Adam Ferguson wrote a book called When Money Dies, and I think it was, like, written in 1972. But it looked at the Weimar Republic of what went on there. There were farmers who refused to sell food for the marks that they were given because it was trillions of marks and those farmers got murdered.
• 44:14
  Right? You read the stories in there of what happens when fiat currency breaks down is it's absolute chaos. It was literally trillions of marks at times for certain assets. My view is that if you don't hold the monetary unit, the virtuous monetary unit, which is nobody else's liability, which is gold and silver, is that there may be a time where there are things that you want to or need to have that you can't get. We've seen it before numerous times in history.
• 44:50
  I think that's the critical message is there's obviously a fraudulent system in London. It's golden silver market, it's run by UBS, by JP Morgan, by HSBC, and the Chinese Communist Party's ICBC Standard Bank. And they run a software platform which trades 200,000,000 ounces of gold every day and 2,400,000,000 ounces of silver every day that they don't have. Right? The the whole thing is size the game.
• 45:29
  It is. The the software plug I think all the trading in London is not on an exchange. It's called OTC, over the counter. So all of these claims for gold and silver are party to party, they trade between multiple banks, and there are 40 or 50 different parties who are able to trade directly through these four entities in the London market. And so what you're looking at is a software platform, which is exchanging these leveraged contracts and it appears that those contracts are leveraged hundreds to one in terms of available metal versus the metal claims in the contract.
• 46:15
  These standing claims that are in London, like it's family offices, it's pension funds, hedge funds, government investments, all kinds of things that are sitting in there holding these promissory notes. What we're seeing here is at the margins, they're starting to mobilize. It's like a giant dam, a giant earthen dam where you see all of a sudden, you see the dam start to vibrate. Right? And at that point, you know, you've got a you've got a serious problem.
• 46:47
  Right?
• 46:48
  Seth Holehouse: And so
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: get that amount of mass starting to move, you've got a serious problem.
• 46:54
  Seth Holehouse: And so a lot of the data that you've been talking about, you know, these are all different canaries in the coal mine, right, that you're watching that are that are these indicators and saying that that this entire system is is starting to crack in a very, very fundamental way. Now
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah. What's interesting The warning system warning systems are so intense. I'd say it's more like an ostrich in a coal mine.
• 47:20
  Seth Holehouse: There you go. And so But
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: Like, if you can't see it, like, hello, wake up. This is there's major major movements happening here.
• 47:34
  Seth Holehouse: But if you look at what's okay. Like, here in America so I I used to you know, back when I was in in during one of my earlier careers, I was in the the jewelry and precious metals industry. And I used to travel to Asia a lot, and I would, you know, go go buy and sell and sell, you know, diamonds into China and Hong Kong, and it was a really interesting period of my life. I learned a lot. I can tell you, though, is that outside of America, especially as you get into more of the Asian countries, you look at China, Indonesia, into, say, Pakistan, even India, those cultures value gold the same way that Americans value football.
• 48:09
  They Yep. It's it's part of the wedding. Every wedding dowry is is, you know, 23 carat gold necklaces. The, everywhere in Hong Kong, every street corner in Hong Kong, they're selling gold statues, gold bullion, gold chains. They're encouraged by their own government to buy these precious metals, whereas in America, I've seen different figures of something you know, sometimes even less than 2% of American households actually hold physical gold and silver outside of their jewelry that they might have in the jewelry box.
• 48:38
  And so, also, in America, in terms of the retail market, you know, you can still buy gold and silver at a very low premium in America. And so is it that you mentioned earlier, that when everyone, you know, basically about panicking is that you wanna be the first person to panic. Right? I think I'm one of I'm that class. I've been panicking about this for a decade.
• 49:00
  Right? And so, okay, hang on. Yeah. I'm gonna set this aside. I'm gonna set this aside.
• 49:04
  So what happens? I mean, if, say, only 95% of it, you know, say, only a few percent of American households own physical metals, then these people are gonna be they'll lose everything. Right? I mean, in some in in an event like this, they're not everything, but they're so disadvantaged to say that, you know, the average Hong Kong household or the average Chinese household that might probably has a couple thousand ounces of silver and maybe a few thousand dozen ounces of gold set aside.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. The day they started this promissory note trading system in London in the world's biggest gold and silver market, The day they started that trading in 1987, I guess, the LBMA was formed in 1987, so 1988 when the trading started, collapse was inevitable. The second that you started trading these promissory notes, where we're at today was inevitable, because what they were doing was shutting off the warning systems, and because they had an unbacked fiat currency, it was backed by the debt which was being created without limit, it collapsed, the point we're at today was inevitable. Greenspan himself says ad extremis, so in the extreme, fiat currency is always rejected, and gold is always accepted. That's all we need to know.
• 50:39
  Seth Holehouse: Gosh. So by them creating the LBMA and creating the paper market for gold and silver, as you mentioned, they shut off the warning system. So gold and silver were always playing they always were the warning system to show you how dangerous inflation was, how dangerous overprinting was. Right. So by doing that, it'll it gave them a window of time to print as much money as they possibly could and do as much as they could with it, fund the military industrial complex, everything that they've done with this this unlimited printing.
• 51:10
  But they knew that that window would close. Yep. And I've also suspected this is one of the reasons why they've been sending billions and billions to to Ukraine as a way to to to pull to basically use Ukraine as a way to to move fiat currency into hard assets through the money laundering over there at the last moment before the before the whole system fell apart.
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: Yep. It's oh, yeah. Wealth extraction. It's just yeah, so it's like rolling a snowball, it's like standing on a mountainside, and if you're an informed central banker, bullion banker, right, who the people at the core of the system certainly are, that the start of the London gold and silver promissory note system was like rolling a small snowball down the side of a mountain and saying, well, here we go, boys, here goes the snowball wheel, and they knew that at the end of it, it would be this massive ball that would be thundering down the mountainside on whatever's at the other end of it. It was completely and utterly predictable what would happen when you turned off the gold and silver warning systems and went to unlimited fiat debt currency creation.
• 52:24
  The other thing too is that they were saying, well, there's no inflation. I remember Larry Kudlow used to be on CNBC and he'd say, oh, there's no inflation. Look, gold's $400 or gold's $500 I'm not worried about it. There's no inflation. Well, of course, there was no apparent inflation because you shut off the system.
• 52:42
  All that money printing flowed into financial assets. That was what Greenspan and and these other central bankers, I call them central destroyers because that's what they're doing. That's what they are. Is that they were inflating financial assets and other assets like home prices as well, and calling it beneficial inflation. But what happens is that's only temporary.
• 53:10
  In the end, when you blow bubbles, the bubbles collapse and then people seek real assets. We've got trillions and trillions of dollars in fiat dollars inflated and held in various debt assets and equities and real estate of different sorts. You've got real assets like food and energy and gold and silver are a fraction of that. I would point to the food commodities. It's a couple of percent or maybe a percent of these other assets that are going to visibly collapse as the debt bubble collapses.
• 53:54
  In a very short time, you can have this visibility of all this money printing and all this monetary inflation that's been going on for forty years come out and all of sudden present itself very, very quickly. You could have tripling and quadrupling of the price of wheat in a very short time, and oil and everything, copper, zinc, lead, whatever. Just anything that's of real intrinsic value, and it's a very, very small segment of the financial markets and of the global economy, which are real assets of intrinsic value. Then you can have this forty years of monetary and debt inflation appear out of seemingly nowhere, rapid onset hyperinflation basically. So and I think what we're seeing here is the onset of that with this spiraling of gold and silver in London.
• 54:50
  They they're marketing it as Trump, and it's this and it's that. But both gold there's a run on both gold and silver in London, And this stuff comes in waves. It's not linear. It doesn't, you know, it comes and it goes, it comes and it goes. And it's just like inflationary waves happened in the 1970s.
• 55:07
  If you look at the data, you can see these surges and then abatement and surges and abatement. And I think we're seeing that in the gold and silver market in London. But the leverage in there and the imbalance is so intense that I don't think it's gonna go on for years. And what I'm seeing in the silver market here is a serious problem manifesting itself.
• 55:34
  Seth Holehouse: So piecing this all together so for one, you mentioned before, this could be six months, a year. You don't don't see it as a long term thing. Like, we're looking at, say, ten years from now. Like, this is much more immediate based upon all the ostriches in the mines that are dying, right, from being poisoned.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Nobody nobody know. It could be weeks. Nobody knows. Yeah.
• 55:55
  Nobody knows.
• 55:56
  Seth Holehouse: But so the bigger picture of this is it it's easy to look at precious metals and silver price and think, oh, okay. Once the paper market market breaks, you know, wow. This silver I have that that's $30 an ounce is not gonna be $300 an ounce, and it's almost the same way people would invest in a a unicorn company thinking, oh, once it goes public, I can make all this money, but that's not it. Mhmm. Because when the when the the paper market breaks, the key that I'm seeing here is not that there's true price discovery of silver and gold, but the key is that when that market breaks, the the suppression of the warning single break signal breaks, then the warning signal starts working again, which then collapses this debt market.
• 56:44
  And that's the real
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: You're gonna see surging it. You're gonna well, yeah, we're gonna see surging interest rates. It'll be a combination of the gold and silver system, but it's also going to be rising default in the markets. The amount of debt that's out I mean, the total US debt, not just the 35,000,000,000,000 of federal debt, it's $101,000,000,000,000 if you look at the Federal Reserve statistics. So it's corporate, consumer, state, municipal debt, everything.
• 57:14
  Interest rates have gone up in round numbers, they went from zero to 5%. And if they're held at that level, they were near zero for the better part of a decade. And what that imposes on the economy, pardon me, is an added $5,000,000,000,000 If you've $100,000,000,000,000 of debt and you raise interest rates by 5%, that's $5,000,000,000,000 a year in a $28,000,000,000,000 economy of added interest burden. The math doesn't work. There isn't that much excess currency in the system that you can tolerate that.
• 57:51
  And so what you start to see then is rising default rates, and you're already seeing it in credit cards and auto loans and things of this nature. And it spreads, right? As the whole leverage system decays, you're going to see more and more default in these debt instruments and in the leveraged financial asset market, I think we're already seeing it with this move into gold and silver, is that there is this holy moly moment where the entire market, the entire market, enough of the market at the margins recognizes the trouble that we're facing and start to acquire these assets so that it breaks the leverage system. The promissory note Hopium never never land system fails. And all of a sudden, the curtain gets drawn, and there's some guy pulling levers.
• 58:47
  Seth Holehouse: And so do you think that the world is on the cusp of, basically what you could call a global debt default? I mean, you think that this current system that was enabled through the suppression of gold and silver on top of many other things, do you think that we're at the point where this system is gonna break? I mean, because based upon what we're talking about, like, means it almost makes the Great Depression look like a bad haircut compared to the the entire system collapsing.
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it's gonna be a rolling debt default fail that's gonna happen. And because we have a fiat debt currency system, it implies that you're gonna have a currency failure along with a debt system reordering, restructuring, which brings you back full circle to gold and silver again.
• 59:50
  Seth Holehouse: Yeah. Wow. This is this is massive. Well, we've gone on for almost an hour, and I I I think I could spend three hours on this stuff, but, I I really appreciate your time today. As we're wrapping up, do you have any last thoughts or closing comments?
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: No. I I well, I I think the key is get the metal and don't measure it. It's a lifeboat. Don't don't don't be measuring it day to day. The imbalance is so great in the London market where these prices have been set for decades.
• 1:00:31
  It's where all the mining companies price their metal that they're that they're producing and selling. It's where all the major funds hold their assets that want to hold gold and silver. Just buy it, put it away, and then focus on your neighbors getting around good people. Right? There's these people that have these ideas, they're preppers and they're gonna have this and this and this, and they have all these plans, but nothing that you have is gonna be of much help if your neighbors have nothing.
• 1:01:06
  Right? So, yeah, I'd focus on getting together with living near people that have similar values to you, assuming you're a good person, forming cooperative bonds and thinking along those lines. Yeah. Very, A of people are gonna a lot of people are gonna need help, and all of us can play an important role.
• 1:01:36
  Seth Holehouse: And that's part of what I see. I'm trying to do with this podcast is I'm trying to give these warning signs to people. And, and because, yeah, I I I sense this is coming, and I have for quite some time. But this this is a very, very helpful discussion for me in in piecing a lot more of this together. And, yeah, I I I thank you for giving me your time.
• 1:01:59
  I I thank you for, the writing you've done in your Substack, which I'll make sure that is in the the show description so people can go follow you on Substack. Very, very important. And, yeah, just David, thank you, and and we'll have to do this again in a couple of months. I'm sure that a lot will change before then, but let's, let's let's put down the calendar at some point. And, again, thanks for for being here and and for imparting all this, knowledge and wisdom upon us.
• 1:02:22
  I really I really appreciate it.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: My my pleasure, Seth. It was, it was great to chat again.
• 1:02:28
  Seth Holehouse: Thank you so much. So if you made it this far to the end of the interview, congratulations. You're patient, and you've also got probably a pretty sharp mind because we talked about some pretty complex, topics in this. And maybe you feel the same way that I have felt after just conducting the interview that this is massively important, and there's something very significant that's happening. And if you've been following me for a while, you probably already have some gold and silver, even if it's a little bit like, this is just a little 10 ounce bar.
• 1:02:58
  And I look based upon this interview, I mean, this 10 ounce bar in the future could be exchanged for a car. You never know. That's the thing is that as you you saw when I asked David, you can't really value it and say, oh, it'll be worth a thousand dollars an ounce or $10,000 an ounce because if a loaf of bread is a thousand dollars, then what does it mean if an ounce of silver is worth $10,000? It just doesn't really equate. But the key is that when this fiat currency system dies, it's the people that hold the real assets, like gold and silver, not just gold and silver, land, food, ammunition, etcetera.
• 1:03:31
  That's where the real wealth is, and that's really what we're going through. See, if you take a step back and look at the where the world is at this great awakening process, it's a process of the lies being stripped away and the truth being revealed. And I think that the lies that we've been fed right now is that are the lies that the stock market is value, that your dollar is is true value. These are all the lies, and they've been upholding this lie, you know, through manipulation of these markets. They've been convincing us that, hey, if you've got a big bank account, you're you're great.
• 1:04:01
  If you have a good stock portfolio, these are all the lies that we've been told, but those aren't real assets. Those assets can be wiped out overnight. And that's why to me, something like a p you know, silver, ammunition, food, land, chickens, these are the real assets. And so if you don't have any precious metals or you're looking to get some, I I I kinda say I can't convince I can't, you know, show you an interview that's even that's more powerful than this in making pardon me, in making a case for it. But I'll tell you though, if you have someone that you are currently working with, where you if you know a good source to buy it, again, it's my recommendation.
• 1:04:41
  This isn't investment advice. This is just my advice. It's the same advice I tell my mother on the phone. I say, mom, don't leave your money sitting in your IRA or sitting in your 401 or even sitting in your bank account. You don't have to keep it stored in this as your store of wealth.
• 1:04:55
  So if you have someone that you've worked with, great. Awesome. If you have someone you can trust, you get a fair price, good for you. However, if you don't have someone that you that you're working with, and you're looking for someone that you can trust, the company that I work with that I trust very, very strongly is Noble Gold. The CEO, Colin Plume, is a good friend of mine.
• 1:05:14
  I'll pull up here. And if you go to, Gold With Seth, so here's the the URL for that. Gold With Seth, you can learn more about, you know, purchasing gold and silver, doing a a transfer of your IRA in the gold and silver. You just fill out this form here or you just call (626) 654-1906. Again, (626) 654-1906.
• 1:05:36
  I'll put that in the description below. They're a trustworthy company that, you know, you can get direct delivery. They can ship you ounces directly to your doorstep. You can have it stored in a repository. You can do an IRA transfer and keep it in a way that you don't get taxed for pulling it out, yet still you're moving your assets into precious metals.
• 1:05:53
  But I'm not saying go dump all your money into gold and silver, but just as an insurance policy. You again, this is just my personal opinion. It's not financial advice. Do your own research. I I just feel like that you wanna have at least some of your assets sitting in physical precious metals.
• 1:06:09
  And that's just that's what I do. I I you know, I don't invest in stocks. I don't invest in cryptocurrencies. If I have some extra money, I'm putting it into gold and silver or maybe some bullets or some more more food or some seeds or I'm building a chicken coop. Because to me, that's real wealth.
• 1:06:25
  And when all this stuff falls apart, because I really believe that we're entering into the phase now of this paper system collapsing, and then that being a massive shockwave with waves that cause huge changes in our society, I don't want to one day be looking at my bank account thinking, gosh, that, you know, whatever that money is, say it's 10,000 or a hundred thousand or million can't even buy me my dinner tonight. I want to be thinking, gosh, I'm so glad that I set aside this 10 ounce bar of silver because this town's bar of silver that this could feed my family for six months. And there's stories of that. There's stories of, think it was Venezuela after their currency collapse that a single ounce of silver could feed a family for a month. Literally, a single ounce of silver could feed a family for a month, yet a wheelbarrow of cash was required to buy a single chicken to eat.
• 1:07:10
  And that's just what happens. And that's why I'm so big on gold and silver. It's not about investment. It's not about doing it to get some return on it. It's it's about it's an insurance policy.
• 1:07:19
  It's making sure that whatever happens that you're not left with nothing. If there's a stock market collapse or whatever it is, that you're not left with nothing. So again, if you have someone you work with, great. If you are looking for someone to work with, goldwithseth.com or (626) 654-1906, if you want something that you can trust that will give you a fair price. Alright.
• 1:07:40
  Thank you for watching the show. I'll see you next time. Numbers don't lie. The impact that balance of nature makes every single day is astounding. You can see the numbers for yourself at their website, balanceofnature.com.
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