Latest / Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast / Reframing Student Success Through the Business of You | Marnie Stockman & Nick Coniglio

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Reframing Student Success Through the Business of You | Marnie Stockman & Nick Coniglio · Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast

0:00
Welcome to Integrate This, your go -to edtech
0:03
podcast where curiosity meets classroom innovation.
0:07
Join your hosts, David Berner and Jeremy Mikla,
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as we explore the rapidly evolving world of educational
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technology. From game -changing tools to insightful
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conversations with today's top edtech voices,
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we're here to help educators stay informed, inspired,
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and ready to innovate. So tune in, level up,
0:25
and let's integrate this. Welcome to the Integrate
0:32
This podcast. I'm Jeremy Mikla, one of your co
0:34
-hosts, and I'm joined by David Berner, as always.
0:37
And we're really fortunate enough to welcome
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not just one guest to our show today, we have
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two. As you can see, if you are watching this
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on YouTube, then you can definitely see the extra
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faces that have joined our screen here. And I
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would like to just give you a little bit of an
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introduction and we'll kind of get started and
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go from there. We are joined today by Marni Stockman
0:59
and Nick Caniglio. They are the co -authors of
1:03
The Business of You, a guide to treating yourself
1:06
as the most important project you will ever work
1:09
on. Marnie went from being a high school math
1:11
teacher to an ed tech leader before teaming up
1:14
with Nick to run a software company. Nick started
1:18
as a programmer, became an executive early in
1:22
his career, then jumped into entrepreneurship
1:24
alongside of Marnie. They include selling their
1:29
company and writing the award -winning lead it
1:33
like lasso Together, they share stories and strategies
1:37
to help students and educators turn leadership
1:40
lessons into real life lessons. So, you know,
1:43
we kind of just said that I know you two are
1:46
great at just kind of bouncing off of each other
1:48
and chiming in whenever you need to. And so that's
1:51
great. I don't know if you've talked amongst
1:53
yourselves like who would like to start here.
1:56
But, you know, thinking about your beginnings,
1:59
your origin stories, how have you gotten to this
2:02
point where, you know, you from your unique backgrounds,
2:06
find each other to work together to come and
2:09
collaborate and bring those perspectives into
2:13
the things that you create and the things that
2:14
you do. Well, I'll start and then I'll let Nick
2:17
finish this story. So I started out, like you
2:20
said, as a high school math teacher. And I do
2:22
think educators are often curious how you get
2:24
from here to there. One of the things I like
2:28
to say is I was selling pre -calculus to 16 year
2:31
olds. So when you land in the business world,
2:33
some people will listen to you just based on
2:35
that alone. Well, if she can sell pre -calculus,
2:37
she might have some business skills along the
2:39
way. But I landed in administration and then
2:43
in the school district, I was working. with an
2:45
EdTech platform, an assessment and analytics
2:48
platform. Spoiler alert, Nick worked at that
2:51
company. I ended up being hired to run customer
2:55
success for that company where I found Nick who
2:59
ran lots of technical departments along with
3:02
customer support. So I will let him pick it up
3:06
from there and then continue our path together
3:08
after that. Yeah, thanks, Marty. Yeah, we found
3:13
ourselves, it was an assessment analytics platform
3:16
for K -12 districts and we kept on getting acquired
3:20
and acquired and acquired and at some point down
3:25
the road. Yeah, Marnie being responsible for
3:28
customer success and myself being responsible.
3:31
Part of my responsibility was customer support.
3:34
We kept hearing from the acquiring company that,
3:37
yeah, our core value, our mission is rating fans
3:40
and we were responsible for the customer experience
3:43
and they kept... increasing spend investing in
3:48
sales and reducing their investment in the customer
3:52
facing teams that Marnie and I ran. So there
3:55
became a real culture clash because both Marnie
3:57
and I are core value as well is raving fans and
4:02
we were not seeing that play out in real life.
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So finally, at some point, I think I sent a note
4:08
which in 2014, 15, whatever it was, that note
4:14
was over a direct message saying, you know, we
4:17
know what we want to do. We should figure out
4:20
if we can run a business on our own, build the
4:25
business so we can actually do what we want to
4:27
do, which is really to come back into education
4:30
and help students and educators become their
4:33
best versions at scale. So we did exactly that
4:37
we decided to leave with that culture clash and
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at some point We had signed non -compete. So
4:45
we had to leave the education market for a couple
4:47
years So we started a business in for managed
4:50
IT service providers of all things something
4:53
we didn't necessarily know anything about. I
4:56
was a technologist, but I really didn't use managed
4:59
IT services very much. We all had done it internally,
5:03
but we built a customer success platform. And
5:06
the long story short is in three years, we built
5:08
it from nothing. We bootstrapped it, scaled it,
5:12
and sold it for eight figures so we could actually
5:15
work on what truly was our passion project, which
5:18
is all about Like I said earlier, helping people
5:22
become the best versions of themselves at scale.
5:25
And that's kind of where the books resonate,
5:27
came from, originated from. And it's been a wild
5:31
ride. Sure. Yeah, I was going to say it's your
5:34
short question for sure. Yeah. And so if we could
5:37
kind of move into that a little bit is that you
5:40
mentioned the book and so the business of you.
5:43
So what is the core philosophy of that? of that
5:47
book, The Business of You, what does that mean?
5:50
So it's interesting because with with researching
5:54
Lead It Like Lasso and having our own leadership
5:56
podcast and having sold a company, we've talked
6:00
with tons of folks who have really been successful.
6:03
And between Nick and me, we have mentored or
6:06
helped students thousands at this point. And
6:10
what we realized is they all had the same need.
6:13
And the lessons we learned from all of the leaders
6:16
that we had talked to is that the most successful
6:18
people in this life, whether they realize it
6:21
or not, were running their lives like a business.
6:25
Not in a corporate way, but in an intentional.
6:28
way where they understood who they were so they
6:32
could understand where they wanted to go and
6:33
how to get there. So the core philosophy in the
6:36
business of you is yeah, you are the CEO of your
6:39
own life, but not like all the LinkedIn gurus
6:41
would say, which is just you need to be the boss
6:44
of you. Well, yeah, that's super not helpful
6:47
because they also need to be the head of HR,
6:50
the head of marketing, head of sales, their own
6:52
chief financial officer. And we tell a story
6:56
of Sydney. who's any one of us, any one of our
7:00
students, a lot like our 20 something year old
7:03
kids who was just plotting down a path and needed
7:08
to hear how to run themselves like a business
7:11
to be successful. So when you talk about that
7:17
specifically as it relates to students or young
7:20
people, We work with educators a lot and so they're
7:24
obviously constantly coming into contact with
7:28
students. So what kind of mindset do younger
7:32
people need to adopt to be able to move into
7:36
thinking that way in the business of you mindset
7:39
where you're starting to consider all those things
7:41
that you just mentioned? Yeah, I think the mindset
7:46
is really shifting from reaching to directing
7:51
and being more intentional about how they lead
7:55
themselves. You know, we often quote Adam Grant,
8:00
and he coined the term years ago about the character
8:03
revolution, right? And in this world of technology
8:07
and automation and artificial intelligence all
8:10
around us, what's really happening is... The
8:16
human skills the the softer skills are becoming
8:20
the great differentiators You know we see it
8:24
all the time when when when kids are they're
8:28
either applying for college or they're you know,
8:32
they're looking for that internship or that first
8:34
job. Where it used to be 10, 20, 100 applicants
8:39
is now 500, 1000, 10 ,000 applicants, right?
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And they don't know how to stand out and differentiate
8:45
themselves. Our education system does a great
8:48
job kind of working towards the base skills,
8:51
those technical skills of math, reading, you
8:53
know, science, social studies, all those things.
8:56
But at least in our experience, what This something's
9:00
got to give because there's just not enough time
9:02
in the day. It's those softer, um, the softer,
9:06
more interpersonal skills. So being intentional
9:09
about going after those skills. You know, we
9:13
related to the business world, you know, a lot
9:15
of people find themselves living their lives
9:18
like a. like a startup without a strategy. And
9:22
the whole notion of the business of you is to
9:24
provide a framework and a story to get kids and
9:27
career changers motivated to start to develop
9:32
that strategy and have a plan and be intentional
9:36
about it. And are there common blind spots that
9:39
you see when people are trying to figure that
9:43
out, like running their own business, running
9:46
their life. Is there, and maybe it is the soft
9:48
skills that you had mentioned, but is that, or
9:52
are there other common blind spots that people
9:55
typically have that keep them from doing that?
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I would say the initial blind spot is they're
10:00
just following the path that they think is ahead
10:03
of them instead of designing the path that's
10:05
ahead of them. So, you know, Career and college
10:09
readiness is a bit broken in that regard because
10:13
they are asking kids when they are in fourth
10:16
grade, fifth grade, sixth grade, what they want
10:18
to be when they grow up, and then they're getting
10:20
filtered into that program. Nick and I often
10:23
joke, we met someone who said that they liked
10:26
to stay in hotels when they were in middle school,
10:29
and so they got put in the hotel and hospitality
10:31
track and sort of got to the end of high school.
10:34
How did I land here again? Instead of looking
10:38
at their core values, who they are as a person,
10:41
hotel and hospitality was actually the right
10:44
spot for that. person but for the wrong reason
10:46
because what they were really good at was service,
10:51
providing others, wanting to help others. They
10:53
actually ended up going into education and you
10:55
can see that hotel and hospitality absolutely
10:59
can be the right place to train students in how
11:03
to be a great service member, a great educator,
11:05
a great nurse. There are a lot of the same soft
11:08
skills. to your point, that get them there. But
11:11
the way folks are sort of channeled into a job,
11:17
it's more about the J -O -B job instead of who
11:20
you are and how you bring value to whatever industry
11:24
it is you might land in. And I'll just add to
11:28
that if I can. So the first department we visit
11:32
in the business of you is the HR department.
11:34
And we kind of position the HR department about
11:39
really, truly understanding who you are. And
11:43
I think, you know, I know this was true in my
11:47
case. I was going along a path because my older
11:50
brother went down a path in technology, right?
11:53
It wasn't my path. I didn't take the time to
11:59
reflect on what truly made me tick and what drives
12:03
me as a person. And I think to summarize it,
12:07
I think that is the biggest blind spot for sure
12:10
is doing that self -reflection probably because
12:15
it's awkward and it's time consuming. And sometimes
12:19
it's not all the almost all the times it's it's
12:22
not the easy path. So I would I would layer a
12:26
second blind spot on top of that, which is not
12:29
surrounding yourself with different voices and
12:32
perspectives to challenge you on. On are you
12:38
truly doing that self reflection? And we talk
12:41
about that quite a bit as well in in our book.
12:44
So do you think like, you know, though it continued
12:47
with the blind spot here for just another moment
12:49
here, but like do do we trap students into certain?
12:54
I know you talked about the hotel and hospitality
12:57
thing without really broadening the availability
13:00
of their experiences to see what else is potentially
13:03
possible for them. Are there ways that schools
13:08
and teachers could help make that experience
13:12
more open to all sorts of possibilities? So I
13:15
will tell you, the thing that comes to mind for
13:17
me is I was assistant principal and I was observing
13:21
our auto tech. program and there were 12 -ish
13:26
students in the class that I was observing and
13:30
10 of them really wanted to be there. They were
13:33
going to be auto techs. It was no question. This
13:35
was the right place for them. Two of them were
13:38
causing, of course, 80 % of the discipline problems.
13:41
Why? Because they didn't want to be there. And
13:45
if teachers could have some support in helping
13:49
figure out what landed you in auto tech, was
13:52
it just alignment of schedules? Because that,
13:54
for the record, happens and is a terrible solution.
13:58
If they were placed in that track for a reason,
14:00
great with their hands. They don't want to sit
14:03
behind a desk all day. Well, let's talk about
14:06
the power of what you can get out of this program
14:10
that is a transferable skill beyond auto mechanics.
14:15
And it's funny because when I started this, I
14:17
literally was just thinking about that class
14:20
that I observed. But my son, who was not in an
14:23
auto tech program in high school, became a technician
14:26
and and worked for a large company who was all
14:32
driven on profit. And he wasn't allowed to help.
14:37
You know, OK, you came in for a break pad, but
14:39
we really need to fix this. Words I don't know,
14:41
so I won't pretend like I do. And he wasn't allowed
14:44
to because that wasn't how the business ran.
14:46
And so when he and I talked, we said, like, let's
14:49
talk about how you landed in auto tech. The things
14:52
I said before, he likes working with hands, his
14:55
hands. He likes problem solving. He doesn't want
14:58
to sit at a desk all day. And he likes helping
15:00
other people. And that's where his core values
15:03
were clashing. And we said, what if you went
15:05
and worked in IT in a school system? And that
15:09
is what he does. He said, all I have to do is
15:11
prioritize who has the biggest problem and help
15:14
them. Yes. I mean, and he loves it. So I do think
15:18
that we could help teachers expand. They're in
15:23
a program, the programs are solid, the programs
15:26
have technical skills, but how can we also show
15:30
what core value, what soft skills those types
15:34
of programs bring to the party? Does that make
15:38
sense? Totally does. And I love how you bring
15:42
that kind of personal story into it, which kind
15:45
of almost leads me into the next area that I
15:48
was going to go to anyway. How important is it
15:51
for that individual to bring their personal narrative,
15:55
their personal story, into their pathway, whether
15:59
it's towards leadership or towards the J -O -B,
16:03
or if you want to think of it even more broader,
16:05
bringing their own values to whatever career
16:08
path they choose. Critically, I'll let Nick answer,
16:11
but that's... Yeah, it's everything. I think
16:16
we like to say your story should be your strategy.
16:22
We often hear leaders who fail all the time and
16:29
so many times it's because they failed to...
16:35
to develop some sort of authenticity and trust
16:39
within the team and leaders who understand their
16:43
own story and their own narrative. So when we
16:47
talk about the importance of narrative, identity
16:49
and leadership, those are the ones that are being
16:52
successful in establishing the authenticity and
16:56
the trust. And those are the ones who are able
16:59
to inspire. from a leadership perspective. And
17:03
we believe storytelling is one of the most critical
17:06
skills that is overlooked. I hired people straight
17:10
out of high school in the businesses that I ran
17:12
straight out of college. And I've seen over time
17:16
kind of that curve go down where it's turned
17:18
into more about just reciting credentials and
17:24
facts and so much less about really relating
17:28
that to their own personal story. And not only
17:32
is that a strategy storytelling to being able
17:36
to communicate who you are, what drives you,
17:39
what motivates you to help the team environment,
17:41
to help build trust, to help establish authenticity,
17:45
but that is also one of the key elements to get
17:49
buy -in, right? And as any leader goes, you have
17:53
to get buy -in. We've talked about the notion
17:56
that storytelling is 22 times more effective
18:01
than just reciting facts. And when you think
18:05
about it from a student perspective, it should
18:07
start early on. When you're writing those college
18:10
essays, you should be relating it to what your
18:14
core value is and your experiences up until that
18:16
point. When you're interviewing for internships,
18:18
when you're interviewing for the real jobs, that
18:22
is the whole vehicle. to allow you to differentiate
18:27
yourself, which I think we've all established
18:29
by now. You almost have to do given how crowded
18:33
any opportunity is these days, which is a kind
18:38
of here. I'll leave my next question with a story.
18:42
Perfect. A 22 year old son just graduated from
18:47
college physics major. Very proud of him. Did
18:49
great. But just like you said, is it now getting
18:53
into this crowded market for employment, right?
18:57
And so as someone who's out there, you know,
19:01
in that job seeking mode, you know, like thinking
19:05
about what can he do to make himself more attractive?
19:10
Like, is it possible for him to reframe some
19:13
of his story to make him a better candidate for
19:18
for, you know, hopefully getting a job and moving
19:21
back out of mom and dad's house. Well, I'll see
19:24
3000 % but your physics major of a son won't
19:27
appreciate my inaccuracy with scientific. Oh,
19:32
the when he talks about those sort of things
19:34
is way over my head. But absolutely can. As a
19:38
matter of fact, so Nick's son and I have chatted
19:41
through the business of you quite a bit. And
19:43
one day he asked me if he could send his friend
19:46
to me. He said he's a mess and he has applied
19:50
and interviewed many times and has never gotten
19:53
a job. So would I chat with them? So I hopped
19:56
on the call with him. His name's Calvin. He's
19:58
more than happy to have us tell his story. And
20:01
he said, I said, so Calvin, tell me what happens
20:04
in the interview. You know, you've interviewed
20:06
multiple times, so clearly your resume is passing
20:09
that initial test. And he said, they've told
20:11
me that I'm a bit all over the place. And he
20:15
hates, first he's an introvert. Second, doesn't
20:19
like talking about himself. Third, the question
20:21
gets asked. So Calvin, tell me about yourself.
20:23
And he just, he goes into what Nick said, all
20:26
of the facts of, well, when I was in kindergarten,
20:28
I thought, oh gosh, any interview that starts
20:30
with when I was in kindergarten, can we please
20:32
stop? We're not going to march our way through
20:34
our public programming. And so we started talking
20:38
about his core values and I made him tell me
20:41
three stories about times where he really felt
20:43
like he was the true version of himself. And
20:46
one of them had to be from before high school.
20:49
And as he told those stories, I said, oh, I have
20:51
some ideas. So I'm going to have you take some
20:53
notes. Are you a pencil paper kind of guy or
20:56
a digital guy? He said, you know, I'm a pencil
20:58
paper guy in an automated world. And I said,
21:00
and I think that's your superpower. So then he
21:03
said, well, let's talk about that. So he started
21:06
thinking about how being an introvert and how
21:09
taking the time to be a paper pencil guy in an
21:12
automated world made him see things differently.
21:14
And it really brought out his strengths. I kid
21:18
you not, I sent him to think about those stories,
21:21
came back a week later, liked what he had to
21:23
say. The next day he had two interviews and he
21:26
didn't get a job. He got both jobs. So when he
21:30
learned to reframe the story around his superpowers,
21:34
he stood out. And the one job was at a place
21:38
where he had been, it was the aquatics program
21:40
at school. He had been a lifeguard and he wanted
21:43
a management position. And they said to him,
21:46
we didn't think we were going to hire you. You're
21:49
just a nice kid. So we thought we would give
21:50
you a chance with the interview. And he blew
21:52
us away with the way you responded to the questions.
21:55
And then the other job was an internship aligned
21:57
with his. major. So story on top of story. But
22:01
yes, there's absolutely a way. And that is what
22:03
the book does is walk students through what they
22:06
have to do to figure out their story. It's not
22:08
just go figure it out. We'll help them. And there's
22:12
a little bit of a connection there, too, because
22:14
you mentioned like you were trying to help him
22:17
work through like what makes you stand out or
22:19
what makes you extraordinary or unique. And you
22:24
have through the Lead it like Lasso, you have
22:28
a master class that accompanies that and that's
22:31
kind of what you're trying to do is help people
22:35
discover what is it that is different about you.
22:38
So can you talk a little bit about how you designed
22:41
that master class and what went into that process?
22:46
Yeah, and I think it's more than the master class.
22:48
I think it's both of the books. I think, you
22:52
know, Probably one golden rule is if it feels
22:56
like a lecture, it's not really an engaging experience.
23:01
We like to design. Both of them laughed. I think
23:03
they agree. Yeah, so our goal and I have to react
23:08
on ourselves and we know. Yeah, absolutely. Our
23:12
goal is whenever we're designing experiences,
23:16
whether it was relating it to a show like Ted
23:18
Lasso or the story and the business of you, we
23:22
want to make people feel something. We want them
23:27
to be curious. We want to challenge them. We
23:29
want them to reflect. At the end of the day,
23:34
I think that's what turns, whether it's master
23:37
class content or the book content, into actual
23:41
change of course we wanna make it we wanna make
23:45
it fun so you know we we we attack it from the
23:49
perspective of. OK, would we be engaged by such
23:53
a thing? And then we we bounce it off of, you
23:56
know, the the tens, the hundreds, the thousands
23:59
of people that we have actually interacted with
24:01
and mentored and kind of get their their feel
24:04
for for. OK, did this did this make you think?
24:08
Did this make you ask more questions? Did it
24:11
challenge you? We realize reflection is uncomfortable,
24:15
but. But did it push you enough? Did it make
24:18
you think enough where you were like, yeah, I'm
24:21
truly going to reflect on that. And I think if
24:24
we keep those tenants in the back of our mind,
24:27
curiosity, challenge, reflection, and does the
24:31
content that we're creating, does it check all
24:36
three of those boxes? We typically feel good
24:40
about that because to us, that means that it's
24:44
engaging. and hopefully useful. I have to say
24:48
that I showed Calvin, I had Calvin pre -read
24:51
our book, and then I had him take a look at the
24:53
app that we're building to support it, and his
24:55
reaction was, I'm gonna make my younger brother
24:58
do this. And why is that, Calvin? He said, because
25:02
this is exactly what I needed. And when I asked
25:05
him, Nick said another thing, what did you think
25:08
about the process? And he said, it's awkward.
25:10
So you have to be willing to do that work. which
25:14
is something that a lot of folks don't always
25:16
dive right into. And is there certain things
25:21
about the pieces that are in the master class,
25:26
like you had mentioned the importance of storytelling,
25:29
like is there certain things built in there that
25:31
you know are very successful for a course like
25:35
that? Like what are the most useful things to
25:38
those that go through the master class. So the
25:42
master class for sure is built for folks who
25:44
have seen Ted Lasso. We stopped the master class
25:46
at the beginning and say go get your Apple TV
25:48
subscription because it's the connecting to the
25:52
story that was in Ted Lasso that brings them
25:55
to their own story, right? When you can start
25:57
making those connections. So I think that is
26:00
part of the playfulness that the fun that we
26:04
inject into that in addition to our own storytelling
26:07
in each section we have little clips from people
26:11
that we have worked with where they connect a
26:14
bit of the lesson to their own life. They're
26:16
just short little clips to say this is how that
26:19
plays out in the real world for sure. And it's
26:23
interesting what we have learned. from building
26:26
that is the lessons that we're including to see
26:30
what makes things engaging and fun as we build
26:33
an app. Because our goal is to put a career coach
26:35
in every kid's pocket with Blue, the app that
26:38
we're building. Right. So when you think about
26:44
like taking on these different values and trying
26:48
to promote them to this wider audience, right?
26:50
Does it become at some point like a you know,
26:55
some sort of an expedition in scaling to be able
26:59
to make it reach a larger audience, make it something
27:03
that you do want to put into every kid's hand
27:05
as they're getting their career and college readiness
27:09
programs that are taking place in schools. You
27:12
know, are there challenges with that? Oh, God,
27:16
yeah. But that's the fun of it. I think that's
27:20
the fun of it, Jeremy. And, you know, if you
27:22
ask us, We believe that whether it's the business
27:26
of you or the companion app that goes along with
27:31
the book that we're building, Blue, every high
27:34
school and every college student in America should
27:37
have it. We're at the point where we fully realize,
27:43
and we see it all the time, I'm in Georgia, Marty's
27:45
in Maryland, high school students specifically,
27:50
when they're thinking about college and career
27:52
readiness, they have a counselor where the ratios
27:56
are one to several hundred people, right? There's
27:58
just not enough. enough bandwidth for students
28:05
to get the resources in the time that they need
28:07
and for those counselors to give it to them.
28:10
That's not a counselor issue. What's that? Interject
28:12
one thing there, too. The ratios for students
28:16
to counselors are just astronomically bad. Uh,
28:19
but then you throw in that at least when my kids
28:21
were going through high school, what they experienced
28:23
was turnover at that position. So they're like
28:26
every year getting a new counselor too, because
28:29
we, no jobs. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Sorry. I just had
28:34
to point that out too. No, no, I think it's going
28:36
to even further illustrate the point you're making.
28:38
Yeah. Yeah. So, so So what we are clearly trying
28:43
to scale, I mean, we're trying to, and we have
28:46
a discussion, I would say seven days a week,
28:49
365 years about, okay, we know that this works
28:53
at a small level, right? We've literally used
28:56
this methodology and approach and we've seen
28:59
instant results, right? Okay, how do we keep
29:02
building the repeatable rhythms to amplify this
29:07
message to the broader audience. This is part
29:10
of it, just having a conversation just in general
29:14
like this. But this is kind of where we, this
29:18
is how we built a company in a space that we
29:22
were completely unfamiliar with, right? Is we
29:25
found ways to add value to voices larger than
29:31
ours, right? We started punching above our weight
29:34
class. And in turn, they would kind of they would
29:39
reciprocate to some level and amplify our little
29:42
message. So our whole go to market strategy is
29:47
all about that. We're lucky enough. The book
29:50
just came out. We have schools that are now piloting
29:54
this this process. They're creating lesson plans
29:57
around the book itself, which is a precursor
30:01
to the blue app that's that's coming down the
30:03
pipe. And we're going to leverage that, right?
30:07
The school system itself gets value because we
30:09
know the framework works. But then they're willing
30:12
to talk and communicate and to really vouch for
30:16
the framework itself. And, you know, there are
30:20
a whole bunch of different ways to scale. But
30:23
what we're focusing on right now is to make sure
30:26
that, and I would advise this to any business,
30:29
I've been in part of four startups that went
30:31
from zero to very big, and in every one of them,
30:37
right, it was, okay, how can we add value when
30:40
we're small, that's more than we take in, so
30:44
people will amplify and help us basically crowdsource
30:49
the excitement around a product fit that we know
30:53
works. Marnie, fill in the gaps there, I feel
30:56
like I blabbered for a little. Oh, no, I mean,
30:58
I think that's perfect. I have a different...
31:01
sort of a parallel path in the scaling conversation
31:05
around a lot of folks that write books are doing
31:09
that so that they can create a coaching program
31:12
and so there is you know when you want to scale
31:15
you go from one to one to one to many to one
31:19
to masses and we don't feel like it's scalable
31:26
for us to say, well, we'll hop on a call with
31:28
10 students or 50 students. If we can build an
31:32
app that's truly scalable, because we can put
31:35
it in every kid's pocket. And some parents are
31:39
paying $150, $200 an hour for a career coach,
31:43
a college coach, a college advisor. There are
31:45
lots of names for these folks. $2 ,000 just to
31:49
help their students. We want to get something
31:52
very reasonable that every student can have because
31:56
that really does help all. It is not just the
31:59
folks that can afford $200 an hour that need
32:02
help in figuring out their path. all the kids
32:06
need this. So that's why we think technology
32:10
is a way we can help scale. And we're very excited
32:13
because we have already gotten school systems
32:15
that are piloting the book and writing lesson
32:17
plans and happy to share those lesson plans.
32:19
So we're happy to send information to anybody
32:23
listening to this on the free lesson plans of
32:26
here, go try it with your students and see what
32:28
works. It leads us into, I think says pretty
32:37
well. So if you just want to take it from there,
32:39
we'll get this little snippet out. I was going
32:41
to make sure. Can you hear that noise? I heard
32:46
something just for a snippet, but it's not bad.
32:48
OK, just wanted to make sure it's the washing
32:51
machine. And I tell you, my office is in a high
32:57
school. And so passing times, there's a door
33:01
that's right out into one of the busiest hallways.
33:03
So if you see my icon going to mute. That is
33:07
why. Okay, well, I can just lead into the next
33:13
question here. So you had mentioned blue a few
33:17
times and on the website to its it's noted as
33:20
a leadership playground And you had mentioned
33:23
like, you know having it on devices so that it's
33:26
accessible to students to kind of build their
33:28
own roadmap for their future Can you talk about
33:31
blue a little bit and more particularly like
33:33
how the AI kind of? Works it into that program
33:38
Yeah, I mean, I guess I can start and just a
33:42
little bit of context here In our book, The Business
33:45
View, it's a fable and we have a lead character,
33:49
Sydney, who happens to be in college, but you
33:52
can kind of draw parallels to high school, where
33:54
she stumbles across a mentor and the magical
33:59
mentor is the one that really helps her navigate
34:03
through the departments of her life so she can
34:05
be the CEO of her own life. But he also introduces
34:08
her to an app. And within that, there are gamification
34:16
features that challenge her and cause her to
34:20
reflect on things like core values, to reflect
34:24
on things like, okay, why it's so important to
34:28
invest my time, to reflect on how to build my
34:32
brand in interview simulators and of that such.
34:37
That is what we're building. You know, we basically
34:40
wrote the book first as a requirements doc for
34:44
the app. And one of the ways to describe it I
34:47
think is, I'm not sure if you're familiar with
34:50
the app Duolingo to learn new languages, right?
34:53
Where it's gamified, it's fun. Blue is kind of
34:57
like Duolingo for personal development. We wanted
35:00
to build really that fun and gamified way for
35:04
young people and career changers. to build out
35:07
the departments of you, Inc. And we wanted to
35:13
do it in such a way that it was personalized,
35:15
right? There's where we truly understand what
35:20
drives Nick as a person for the success of Nick,
35:23
Inc. So I can understand Nick's core values.
35:26
I can understand what Nick's pet peeves are and
35:29
what his weaknesses are. And then we intend,
35:34
and we are, building simulators, right, to walk
35:39
the user through a journey, right? So once I
35:42
understand, okay, Nick's interests are in marketing
35:48
and Nick's core values are creativity and integrity,
35:53
we can build a simulator that is an interview
35:58
simulator that allows Nick to have an interactive
36:02
session. to really build off of the information
36:09
that we know about NIC. Of course, all in an
36:12
anonymized way as we're feeding kind of the AI
36:15
engine. We built EdTech platforms. We understand
36:19
the whole notion of PII and security. But the
36:26
use of AI specifically, since you asked about
36:28
that, is to be adaptive and personalized. to
36:34
the learner, to the student, and to gamify it.
36:39
I mean, it would have taken years, not a decade
36:44
ago, to think of all the different permutations
36:48
and how you engage and interact with any particular
36:52
user. AI has allowed us, you know, with our own
36:55
models to kind of personalize it in a fun and
36:59
engaging type of way that Marty and I have been
37:02
working to train for almost two years now. Yeah,
37:06
and that's really great too, just like how you're
37:08
talking about how the AI can adapt and react
37:11
to the interactions that any individual has with
37:15
the program. Is there, so just to shift it a
37:18
little bit, when you think about AI, obviously
37:21
that there's a uh, the ability to make those
37:25
adaptations. But then do you see since you're
37:28
in the, you've come in, you know, from the business
37:31
side of things too, and you have a lot of experience
37:34
there. Do you see where any, there are any shifts
37:38
in leadership skills at all with the AI stuff?
37:41
So not so much, uh, like someone working with
37:44
AI to enhance their own skills in a certain area,
37:48
but just more like what leadership skills. are
37:51
ending up being or shifting into? Is there any
37:54
changes that you see there at all with the advances
37:57
in AI? I'm going to start with something then
38:00
I'll let Nick say the right answer. It's best
38:02
that we end on the right answer. One thought
38:05
that comes to mind as a former educator, I believe
38:08
I'm a lifelong educator. If you woke me up in
38:10
the middle of the night and asked me what I did,
38:11
I'd say teacher. So I think I count. You know,
38:15
there was always this shift. being talked about,
38:19
you're not the sage on the stage, but the guide
38:21
on the side. And with AI, when frankly, you don't
38:25
need a stage on the stage, because you've got
38:27
AI sitting right in front of you being plenty
38:30
sagely and all of its wisdom. So the leadership
38:34
needs to be the guide on the side to help support
38:39
the work. So that's my first attempt at an answer
38:42
and then we'll see what the right one is. Nick?
38:45
I think you absolutely nailed it. I think to
38:51
some extent leadership can be now more focused.
38:58
We've talked about, Marty and I often talk about
39:02
this whole notion of command and control versus
39:06
servant leadership and how much more effective
39:09
and studies prove this, that servant leadership
39:13
working with others to grow actually is as opposed
39:18
to just telling people what to do. And I think
39:23
knowing that we have this great resource in AI
39:28
that alleviates, I know when I was a leader in
39:34
business and technology, so much time was, okay,
39:39
are we building up the technical skills right,
39:43
to ensure that we can deliver whatever outcome
39:47
we need to deliver to the end customer. That
39:52
burden isn't necessarily there as much from a
39:56
leadership perspective, which to me is great
39:58
because now we can focus on all the things that
40:02
servant leadership is all about, which is, okay,
40:05
developing people, making sure they grow, not
40:08
just from a technical standpoint, but from an
40:11
interpersonal in softer skills standpoint, we
40:15
can think more about strategy and we've got this
40:19
great tool to help us leverage and brainstorm
40:22
on what those strategies are. So I think there's
40:28
a lot of concern and angst about AI and rightly
40:33
so. We know that some jobs are going to be replaced.
40:38
But we have to be, I think we should be optimistic
40:41
about it because there are going to be jobs and
40:44
functions that we can't even imagine today that
40:47
are coming down the pike. And I think as leaders,
40:52
right, we can take this great technology and
40:57
this advancement and everything that's changing
41:00
on a day -to -day basis with AI and really recenter
41:04
and focus on the things that are all about building
41:10
team and dynamics, trust, authenticity, all those
41:14
softer type skills. So we're very biased, of
41:18
course, because we talk about this every single
41:20
day and it's very important to us. But to me,
41:25
AI really is putting the focus where it should
41:29
be when we talk about leaders and where we've
41:33
wanted to be for a couple of decades now when
41:36
servant leadership first became popular. And
41:38
I'd like to add, teachers are the ultimate servant
41:41
leaders in the classroom with the students. So
41:44
they're leading the students themselves when
41:46
they don't necessarily have all the answers.
41:48
And what is the most popular question that is
41:51
asked in any classroom? When am I ever going
41:53
to use this? I think the fair answer is now,
41:58
will none of us know? And so let's talk about
42:01
what these skills are really building in you.
42:04
Math is not math for the sake of math. It's doing
42:07
pushups for your brains. It's helping you learn
42:10
how to problem solve. It's helping you learn
42:12
how to use logic. It's helping you with persistence.
42:15
All of these things are elements of developing
42:18
your core values and all those servant leadership
42:22
skills within the students. And we need to be
42:24
really comfortable saying that. Because the answer,
42:28
well, you're going to use this when you manually
42:31
do your accounting. When? No, that's not true.
42:35
That's not how it's going to happen. What are
42:37
you really teaching in social studies? Story.
42:41
history, right, how systems work, how people
42:45
work, how community team dynamics work. We need
42:48
to be very comfortable with saying that. Sorry,
42:51
I clearly just stood on a soap box for a minute,
42:56
so I'll get back down. But it's really interesting
43:01
to hear you talk about it, and maybe I haven't
43:03
considered it through this lens necessarily,
43:05
but David and I talk AI like just about every
43:08
day also. Um, and if it's not with each other,
43:11
it's with, you know, many other. Yeah. And, you
43:16
know, like I always, when I, when I talk about
43:19
AI, I like to talk about the H I that goes along
43:22
with it, that human intelligence, right. And,
43:24
and so to hear you frame it as, you know, whether
43:27
it be a guide on the side that AI is, or, um,
43:31
or, or that teachers still need to be. Or from
43:36
that servant leadership perspective, right? Because
43:38
you're not going to get servant leadership from
43:40
artificial intelligence. That is where the human
43:43
comes in. And to hear you say that also, Marnie,
43:47
that teachers are the ultimate servant leaders.
43:51
And I think part of what has to go along with
43:54
that, too, is there's some vulnerability that
43:57
you need to expose within yourself. So how do
44:01
you... Coach people that it's okay to show your
44:05
vulnerability and like you said, not have all
44:08
of the answers, but still portray that leadership
44:13
role. Well, have you seen Ted lasso? I mean that
44:18
is a brilliant example, right? He goes from the
44:21
American like I led you into the answer of your
44:24
I'll walk through that You're right. So Ted lasso
44:28
was an American football coach who went to the
44:30
UK to coach football which over there is actually
44:33
soccer and He so he knew nothing technical about
44:38
the sport, but what he knew was leadership, servant
44:42
leadership specifically. He understood teamwork.
44:44
He understood how to get the best out of folks.
44:48
And he did that by being vulnerable himself.
44:52
So I mean, I only partially joke when I say watch
44:57
Ted Lasso, but that is an example of how it works
45:00
in reality. Nick, what were you thinking? Same
45:05
thing. I mean, leaders who model vulnerability
45:09
are the ones who create cultures of honesty and
45:13
care. You're right, you guys mentioned it's hard
45:18
to do that sometimes, but the reality of it is
45:23
works. If there's one message I can tell my 21
45:26
-year -old son, and I have told him this, it's
45:29
the one lesson that I learned way too late in
45:33
life, which is, it's okay to admit what you don't
45:36
know. I don't know what I don't know. And as
45:39
soon as I started doing that, as soon as somebody
45:42
that my mentor at the time banged it into my
45:45
head for the fifth, 10th, 20th time, my world
45:49
opened. All of a sudden people, you know, started
45:53
coming up to me and talk to me about things.
45:55
I felt more comfortable having conversations.
45:58
I suffered from this great imposter syndrome
46:00
that that That was immediately gone. You know,
46:05
I had anxiety panic attacks all about all these
46:08
things. It's because I felt like I Needed to
46:11
have all the right answers because I was in a
46:13
position of leadership and we we do talk to educators
46:16
Marni isn't educator You guys are educators,
46:18
right? That is a big problem, right? What it's
46:20
it's hard to admit that you don't know something
46:22
when you're leading a classroom Whether it's
46:24
the the children or the parents of the children
46:28
But but there is a way to do that Um, and it
46:33
requires, it requires a commitment to yourself,
46:37
but it also requires practice. Um, and it, it's
46:41
a little bit of a jump off the ledge moment for
46:43
a lot of people, but I guarantee you, um, if,
46:48
if, if you do that, you know, trust me when I
46:51
say that worlds will be all of a sudden doors
46:54
that were locked will start opening for you.
46:57
Um, because people respond to that in a way that,
47:01
that And trust opens up in a way that never really
47:05
exposes itself when you refuse to get naked or
47:09
be vulnerable. I think there are lots of control
47:13
that people fear that, you know, I think especially
47:16
from teachers, I see that often when I'm sharing
47:19
a new tool or something with with some teachers
47:21
are like, if I don't master this tool before
47:24
my students, I'm never going to be able to answer
47:26
the questions they have about it when, you know,
47:29
if you just turn it over, just. You know, turn
47:32
back a little bit. Be curious, not judgmental.
47:36
Maybe we can all learn this. What questions do
47:38
we have? What would we like it to do? Let's see
47:40
if it can do it, right? Right. So I think you
47:43
have to give up some of that uncertainty, some
47:45
of that doubt in order to make it that learning
47:48
experience for the kids then. Yeah. Yeah, at
47:50
this point, too, it might be good to ask the
47:52
students what they know and maybe get some help.
47:55
Absolutely. Using it in a lot of different ways.
48:00
So it's sort of ironic when my son was in fifth
48:02
grade I was the math supervisor and I was in
48:04
charge of implementing smart boards across the
48:07
school district and There was a training where
48:10
the teachers were allowed to sign up by their
48:12
comfort level with smart boards. So the top experts
48:17
were fives, and my son asked if he could come
48:20
with me that day, because they had off. And I
48:22
said, all right, I'll sign us up for the fours,
48:24
the next to the... Now he knew way more than
48:27
I did about this. And his teacher was really
48:30
excited because they figured he could just come
48:34
and help the other teachers because he was so
48:37
tech savvy. No, no, no one else in his school
48:39
was above where we were. What was funny... still
48:41
is while we were in there the trainer was doing
48:45
something and somebody asked about a specific
48:47
feature and David nudged me and Sheila and I
48:50
said well raise your hand and the trainer looked
48:53
over and he raised his hand and he said actually
48:55
if you go up to that button and pull down to
48:57
here and shift over on the right you can get
48:59
a highlighter so you know when they open it up
49:02
Everyone in the room cheered for fifth grade
49:04
David, but it is interesting when you allow that
49:07
to happen You really a rising tide really does
49:09
lift all ships. Even if the first time you rise
49:12
is just a four -foot fifth grader So as I want
49:18
to get into a couple different things here that
49:20
I think again mentioned the Mentor, right? so
49:26
if we could talk just a little bit about the
49:28
what is what do you find is the importance of
49:31
Having mentors and what advice do you give people
49:34
who feel like they don't have a mentor or? Don't
49:38
know how to ask for feedback I'm so glad you
49:41
asked us to stay for another hour and a half.
49:43
I'm just kidding Well, I I think you know we
49:49
We we talk about and leave it like last so we
49:53
reference to diamond dogs in in the business
49:56
of you we talk about surrounding yourself with
50:02
with a personal board of advisors, not too different
50:06
than a company surrounds themselves with a board
50:08
of advisors. And when you think about the different
50:11
roles that fit on those boards of advisors, we
50:15
talk about three specifically, but it could be
50:17
more than that. Connectors, people that will
50:20
help you expand your reach and your network.
50:24
We talk about challengers like, people who will
50:27
challenge you that you trust to stretch you and
50:30
push you. And then we talk about mentors, those
50:33
that have been there and done that before you.
50:37
And I think each one of those is critically important.
50:41
You mentioned specifically about mentors. They've
50:45
been there. They've done that. They're that guide
50:49
for you. And to me, I don't know of a successful
50:53
person that hasn't had either an informal or
50:57
formal way at my age and 50s who did not have
51:01
somebody to help bounce ideas off of who has
51:04
been there, who's done that from a mentoring
51:07
standpoint. And I would also like to add. especially
51:11
with, there's a lot of talk today about the differences
51:13
between generations, whether you're Gen X, Gen
51:17
Y, the new one, Gen Alpha, what have you, and
51:21
how different people are. I think for those people
51:25
that are out there that are listening, being
51:27
a mentor, you get almost as much value. out of
51:32
as opposed to being a mentee. And that is, you
51:37
know, we've learned when we're working with these
51:39
young students and we're talking about the business
51:41
of you, we're learning a perspective of a different
51:44
generation and learning so much about what their
51:48
perspective is and things I didn't even know
51:50
existed in their approach and how they definitely
51:54
approach things. So this whole notion of reverse
51:57
mentoring is real. And it's a big thing. And
52:01
I hope more people, Marnie and I have a lot of
52:04
time, Marnie much more so than I, to actually
52:06
mentor people. And I hope more adults find the
52:11
time to do it, knowing that not only are you
52:13
helping somebody who's younger, but it's a way
52:15
for you to grow significantly as well. In some
52:20
bright new ways. Yeah. And you mentioned what
52:23
happens for folks who don't have a mentor. Now,
52:27
the interesting thing is that the internet in
52:31
your pocket, you can take a look at folks that
52:34
you admire and see how they got there. So in
52:38
a way, someone on your board of advisors, you
52:41
don't necessarily have to know them. They're
52:43
not going to be as influential as someone that
52:46
you can talk to, but you certainly can take a
52:49
look at You know, take a look at who you friend
52:52
following frequent, they say. Where are you paying
52:55
attention online? Who are you paying attention
52:58
to? And are you tracking how they have, what
53:01
has their path been? When the world's your oyster
53:04
with things you can search, you can figure out
53:06
how someone got to the role that you were interested
53:09
in or the job you were interested in. And the
53:12
other thing I will say is I walked into a class
53:15
my first day as assistant principal. in high
53:18
school, the first period, and a kid from the
53:21
back of the class shouted out a big hello. And
53:24
I thought, am I supposed to turn and yell at
53:25
this kid or what? And when I did, he had a big
53:29
grin on his face and I thought, well, I should
53:31
not yell at that. And so I still, this was 12
53:36
years ago, he is 31 now. I still am involved
53:40
in his life. I definitely became a mentor to
53:42
him. And I asked him, Why did you shout hello
53:47
to an assistant principal in a black suit and
53:50
clicky heels? I felt like I was intimidating,
53:52
you know, in class. And he said, I don't know,
53:56
he just looked like somebody that would help.
53:58
So there's a whole school system of grownups
54:02
that are in that job because they want to help
54:04
because they're surely not in it for the money.
54:06
So try to connect, build those relationships
54:09
with the teachers, talk to them. If we could
54:13
talk a little bit here too, just about you had
54:15
mentioned like the personal board of advisors.
54:19
So creating feedback loops so that you can, you
54:21
know, how to grow or like, I know even just thinking
54:25
about our podcast, like over the last, Jeremy
54:28
and I have been doing this podcast for about
54:29
three years now. Well, it's tied to our YouTube
54:32
channel, but all the different decisions that
54:35
him and I have made have come from seeing what
54:38
other people are doing. So like sometimes it's
54:41
things on YouTube or things on LinkedIn. And
54:44
it sparks kind of an idea in our own mind to
54:47
try something different that we haven't quite
54:50
done yet. And I think that that's super helpful.
54:53
And it touches on your point that the feedback
54:55
that you're getting or maybe the ideas that you're
54:58
getting. They don't have to be someone that's
55:01
directly tied to you in person or things like
55:04
that. You can glean things from off of online,
55:07
as you mentioned. So if, and maybe this is part
55:11
of that answer, but, um, if somebody doesn't
55:15
know how to start that process and maybe they
55:17
are more of like an introvert or something like
55:19
that, and they just don't really know how to
55:22
start getting that feedback or what would be
55:26
the first step you would have them take to start
55:28
that process. Dick, do you want to start? Read
55:33
our book. That would be the first step, right?
55:38
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, we talk about
55:41
different strategies in our book. I mean, I think
55:45
you bring up a couple, right? Like, follow, frequent.
55:49
Those that you have found have similar interests,
55:53
because as you guys both have said, whether it
55:56
was David, Marnie, Jeremy earlier, You know,
55:59
we have access to all these different types of
56:04
information and content at our fingertips. The
56:10
question is, are you accessing the right content?
56:14
So, you know, we recommend, OK, if you don't
56:19
know anybody, if you're introverted, all right,
56:21
let's first identify who you should like, frequent
56:25
and follow. And then let's start. let's start
56:28
thinking about, okay, well, at the end of the
56:31
day, I would love to approach this person to
56:35
get their feedback. I think Marty did this with
56:38
my son, and my son said, you know, I would love
56:41
to, you know, have a conversation with the CEO
56:45
of NVIDIA. And Marty's like, great, did you reach
56:49
out to him? Not like that's gonna happen, but
56:52
that was the start. Okay, this is how you might
56:55
introduce yourself to them. And Connor sent them
56:58
a connection request on LinkedIn. Still hasn't
57:01
heard back, but we'll work on it. Okay, let's
57:05
break that down a little bit, right? Let's talk
57:07
about your professors in college or your teachers
57:10
in high school and start thinking about what
57:16
lines aligns with your interests. and how you
57:20
can start to engage with those people, whether
57:22
it's through office hours, or do you belong to
57:24
church groups, or some outside of school service,
57:28
teachers, professors, what have you, family members.
57:33
But I think thinking about who is in alignment
57:37
with your view, you can think about the end game,
57:40
the big kahuna, the one that would be the best
57:44
thing in the world. And once you start doing
57:47
that and then you start breaking it down to people
57:49
that might be in your network or on your periphery
57:53
of your network, it does not seem as intimidating.
57:57
Now, Mari is going to give you the right answer.
58:00
Well, and the trick is I'm just going to add
58:03
to it to figure out what questions that you want
58:06
to ask. So especially introverts, we have found.
58:10
For all the introverts on the call, the book
58:12
Quiet by Susan Cain will make you realize being
58:15
introverted is a superpower. And for all the
58:17
extroverts on the call, read Quiet so that we
58:20
can become more introverted, because freely admitted,
58:23
I'm a recovering extrovert that's working on
58:26
becoming more introverted. But learning to ask
58:29
questions, it is shocking how much people want
58:31
to help. And if you can just ask for advice,
58:35
or an easy one is Jeremy. I am super curious
58:39
how you landed in this position. My son, myself,
58:44
whoever would love to have a job like yours.
58:46
How did you get there? I suspect Jeremy, you're
58:48
more than happy to share your path on how you
58:52
got there. And so simple questions on. You know,
58:56
don't start with the heavy lift of, hey, Jeremy,
58:58
it was nice to meet you. I'd really like to have
59:00
that job. Would you be willing to, you know,
59:02
write a letter of recommendation for me or, you
59:04
know, open a door for me? How about just start
59:07
simple with, like, how did you get there? So
59:11
a couple of years ago, I was reading or something
59:15
or I sat in a meeting where someone was talking
59:19
about the 60 year curriculum. Either of you familiar
59:24
with that? I'm not, but I'm writing it down.
59:27
Yeah, it's kind of based upon this idea that
59:30
those students that are entering into our school
59:34
system right now need to prepare for a lifetime
59:38
of career changes that are going to happen over
59:42
their 60 year academic and professional working.
59:46
Years of their life, you know if it if you consider
59:49
the rising life expectancies and things that
59:52
you know And and people are probably going to
59:54
be changing jobs at multiple points along the
59:58
way through that whole process, right? So I want
1:00:01
you I want you to us to think about maybe like
1:00:04
specific moments within that 60 -year thing.
1:00:08
Someone who's at the beginning point of entering
1:00:10
into a college or career moment, like a recent
1:00:15
high school graduate or something. And what sort
1:00:17
of advice would they need? Then pull it apart
1:00:20
and go down that timeline a little bit further.
1:00:23
Maybe someone who's like... mid career, but maybe
1:00:27
aren't feeling as fulfilled and in that position
1:00:29
that they're in at that moment. You know, what
1:00:31
advice might we want to what you want to offer
1:00:34
for them? And then someone who's maybe a little
1:00:36
bit closer to that end of that period. And they're
1:00:39
thinking about I'm winding down maybe my professional
1:00:42
life, but I don't want to stop learning. Yeah.
1:00:46
So what advice would you give at those different
1:00:48
moments? Well, I. I think you answered the broad
1:00:52
advice that applies to all three of those, which
1:00:55
is everything should be viewed through the lens
1:00:59
of learning, and just building on that. Even
1:01:04
more broad advice is stay curious and keep iterating.
1:01:08
I'll give you one line, I think, for each of
1:01:11
those. And then, as usual, Marni will probably
1:01:13
give you the best answer. But I think for the...
1:01:18
They're early, you know, the students, right?
1:01:20
They're in that perspective. I think that's all
1:01:23
about experimenting with what drives them, their
1:01:26
identity. I think for mid -career professionals,
1:01:32
and I see this all the time, they go off course,
1:01:36
right? A lot of times. And I think mid -career,
1:01:39
it's all about reconnecting with what... your
1:01:42
purpose, right? And what it means to be Nick.
1:01:45
And then I think more seasoned leaders, you know,
1:01:49
the end of career, it's a focus on legacy, you
1:01:54
know, and what am I going to leave behind? Now,
1:01:57
I think all three of those, whether it's the
1:01:59
sperm with identity and purpose and legacy, I
1:02:03
think can start very early. And I think you're
1:02:05
going to say, Nick, that sounds stupid to think
1:02:07
about your legacy when you're 21 years old. But
1:02:10
we advocate for that because we realize it might
1:02:14
change. But the earlier you start thinking about
1:02:18
your legacy, you start building bumper pads,
1:02:21
which then start impacting decisions in the here
1:02:25
and now. So, Marnie, take it away from here and
1:02:28
tell me. Well, I've taken notes, so clearly he
1:02:31
had the right answer. But it reminded me of a
1:02:33
few things. First, Simon Sinek's book, The Infinite
1:02:36
Game. that if you're only thinking you're trying
1:02:38
to reach one thing and not continually trying
1:02:41
to grow and improve, at some point you're going
1:02:43
to feel really flat because you've gotten where
1:02:47
you think you were aiming for and you feel like
1:02:50
there's nothing else beyond that. So I think
1:02:51
that's where Nick was talking to reconnecting
1:02:54
with purpose. in a shocking turn of events. I
1:02:56
have a story to go with it. My daughter called
1:02:59
me from the beach in Hawaii where she was working
1:03:02
remotely with a marketing job that she'd gotten
1:03:05
based on her degree in business, minor marketing.
1:03:09
So people definitely assuming she's living her
1:03:12
best life because she's calling me from the beach
1:03:15
in Hawaii. But What she said was, I'm not really
1:03:20
feeling fulfilled. I don't think I'm making a
1:03:22
big impact. The job is not requiring all of my
1:03:26
skills. What should I do? And I said, well, my
1:03:31
friend needs a fourth grade English teacher.
1:03:33
Do you want to do that? She said, yeah, I think
1:03:35
I do. And so she is now. teaching fourth grade
1:03:39
for her second year, loving it, doing a great
1:03:41
job. So I think to Nick's point, figuring out
1:03:44
your identity and where to reconnect with your
1:03:48
purpose, that might happen. For the record, she's
1:03:50
24. That happened when she was 22, that we've
1:03:53
just made a pivot early on. And then I had already
1:03:57
written down legacy. So as usual, I normally,
1:04:01
honestly, I steal the answer, but he stole the
1:04:04
answer. All right. Well, that's a that's gonna
1:04:09
bring us into our final questions here And so
1:04:13
we're gonna do our we do this on our podcast.
1:04:15
We do our lightning rounds and so we would hope
1:04:19
to get an answer from both of you if we can and
1:04:23
We're gonna we're gonna start Jeremy and I kind
1:04:26
of go back and forth on these So we'll start
1:04:28
with the the very first question. Either one
1:04:31
of you can go first favorite Ted Lasso character,
1:04:35
but you can't choose Ted All right, I'll say
1:04:38
Roy Kent, especially he's on our mind this week
1:04:41
because we do a newsletter and it's all about
1:04:43
cussing and profanity. So everyone loves Roy
1:04:47
Kent as do I. So Roy Kent. I'm gonna go with
1:04:51
Higgins. I think that's a little, I mean, they're
1:04:54
all favorites for me, but. But I just love Higgins
1:04:59
and his wisdom just out of nowhere. He just seems
1:05:03
to say the right thing at the right time. He's
1:05:05
a he's a bit of an aspirational figure for me.
1:05:09
And I tell you what, I think it's an underrated
1:05:11
episode when they all went to have Christmas
1:05:13
at his Christmas. And he remembers where everybody's
1:05:19
from. You know, he remembers a little thing about
1:05:22
it. It's a master class in. in management leadership
1:05:26
of a team. Love it. Perfect. Perfect. How about
1:05:30
which book besides your own do you think every
1:05:34
leader or teacher should read at least once?
1:05:37
Go Giver by Bob Berg, John David Mann. I'm gonna
1:05:41
go with Think Again by Adam Grant. All right.
1:05:46
One song that instantly boosts your energy before
1:05:49
a big moment. It's so dumb. I'm the tiger. I
1:05:52
will jump around. I'm gonna try to keep my feet
1:05:55
tangent. If I can, we just interviewed Alfonso
1:06:00
Mendoza, Dr. Alfonso. And his favorite song was
1:06:04
also I Had Tiger. From Lino Fierce Elementary.
1:06:09
So that's awesome. I'm gonna go with the song
1:06:13
that gets me going is Till I Collapse from Eminem.
1:06:16
Okay, yeah. Cool. One thing you wish more leaders
1:06:20
would start doing immediately? Oh, self -reflection
1:06:25
for themselves and everybody that works for them.
1:06:30
If you're not doing it, listen longer. I think
1:06:33
people are going to tell you everything if you
1:06:35
give them enough space. All right, and then our
1:06:39
final question. What's one tech tool or app you
1:06:43
actually love using every day? I've forgotten
1:06:49
my answers to my question! Does Nick go ahead
1:06:52
while I rethink? I think Marnie's would be some
1:06:56
AI model, probably ChatGPT. Oh, thank you. That
1:06:59
is what I would, yes, ChatGPT for sure. We'll
1:07:02
take that. You know, I've been in technology
1:07:05
my entire career. I've yet to find the app that's
1:07:09
like, yeah, I love going into this. And that's
1:07:12
what we're hoping to build with Blue. You know,
1:07:16
of course, I think everyone likes to go. You'll
1:07:18
see what's going on in LinkedIn or their favorite
1:07:20
social media platform. Yeah, but they're all
1:07:23
missing something. I was thinking LinkedIn, but
1:07:26
it's just to connect, but it doesn't build all
1:07:29
the connections the way I'd want to build them.
1:07:31
What is y 'all's favorite app that maybe it'll
1:07:34
turn out to? The Tables are Turning. Yeah. Anything
1:07:38
good out there that we haven't heard about that
1:07:40
you just love going into every day? Well, the
1:07:43
one that I'm in the most and probably need to
1:07:45
be in less is my ESPN Fantasy Football League
1:07:47
app. A little less time in that app. Why how
1:07:52
are you doing? Are you saying your team is underperforming?
1:07:55
I'm three and three I think after this week,
1:07:58
so and you don't have a lot of Ravens on your
1:08:00
team. All right Football is a sore subject because
1:08:03
I'm a jazz fan and Marnie's a Ravens fan and
1:08:05
it's it's we got only between us Yes, I don't
1:08:09
know what the Jets need to do, but the Ravens
1:08:11
just need to get healthy Correct, but immediately
1:08:14
we have a bye next week and then everyone's got
1:08:17
to be Ironman from here on out Jets need to be
1:08:21
relegated. We need to put the Premier League
1:08:23
system into things that are bad and get relegated
1:08:27
to a lower division. And I think that's the Jets,
1:08:29
for sure. Well, I suppose I didn't quite answer.
1:08:33
I would have to agree with Marnie, and probably
1:08:36
Chad GPT is the one that I'm in the most often.
1:08:39
But it might not always be for work. I tend to
1:08:42
ask it for a lot of cooking advice. And so that's
1:08:46
what I'm pulling out of it right now. Excellent.
1:08:51
Yeah. Well, guys, I know we had a great conversation
1:08:54
here, but I want to give you kind of the last
1:08:57
moment here to let people know, where can they
1:09:00
get a hold of you? Where could they find your
1:09:02
book? You know, if people want to maybe hear
1:09:06
about things that you have coming down the pipeline,
1:09:09
anything that you'd like to share along those
1:09:10
lines. So both of our books are available on
1:09:13
Amazon. So lead it like lasso or the business
1:09:16
of you. thebusinessofyou .ai is the website,
1:09:21
and we have a waiting list there, so if folks
1:09:22
are interested in seeing what's happening with
1:09:26
us, that would be a good place. Info at thebusinessofyou
1:09:30
.ai, if there's any educator out there that would
1:09:32
like lesson plans for the book, happy to share
1:09:34
them. And we are in social media at Blue the
1:09:38
Business of You everywhere, so we're easy to
1:09:41
find because that's us on all the places. And
1:09:46
in our name, we'd rather be Neil Townsend. Well,
1:09:48
that's right. I didn't mean to cut you off, Nick.
1:09:50
No, I was just going to say, we have pretty unique
1:09:53
names on LinkedIn. We'd love for people to connect,
1:09:55
Arnie Stockman or Nick Coniglio. The best part
1:09:59
about this whole experience writing the books
1:10:02
are all the different people that we have met.
1:10:04
So we'd love to connect with anybody that's interested
1:10:07
in talking about the same things that we've talked
1:10:09
about today. Perfect and we'll share the links
1:10:13
in the in the show descriptions But we just want
1:10:16
to really thank you again one more time for for
1:10:18
such a great conversation that we had today No,
1:10:21
thank you. This is back. You guys are out. I
1:10:23
appreciate you Thanks for listening to integrate
1:10:28
this Want to take your learning further head
1:10:31
over to our YouTube channel for quick tutorials
1:10:33
deep dives and More edtech tips you can use right
1:10:37
away Don't forget to subscribe and catch new
1:10:40
podcast episodes every Thursday on Apple, Spotify
1:10:44
or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next
1:10:48
time, keep exploring, keep innovating and keep
1:10:51
integrating this.