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IFH 823: The Secret to Getting Noticed as a Screenwriter with James Moorer · Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You are listening to the ifh podcast Network. For more
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  Speaker 2: Welcome to the INDIEILM Muscle Podcast, Episode number eight twenty three,
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  Speaker 2: Cinema Should make You Forget.
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  Speaker 3: You're sitting in a theater, Roman Polanski.
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  Speaker 1: Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood. It's the Indie
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  Speaker 1: Film Hustle Podcast, where we show you how to survive
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  Speaker 1: and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of
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  Speaker 1: the film biz.
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  Speaker 4: And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Huscle podcast.
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  Speaker 4: I am your humble.
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  Speaker 3: Host Alex Ferrari. Today's show is sponsored by Rise of
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• 1:50
  Speaker 3: today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
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  Speaker 5: On this week's episode of the podcast, I Have a
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  Speaker 5: Screenwriter an actor. Soudy journalism at the Ohio State University,
• 2:03
  Speaker 5: and he studied other prominent screenwriting gurus Robert McKee and
• 2:05
  Speaker 5: How Crozman at Screenwriting You. In twenty fourteen, he was
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  Speaker 5: named one of Screwriting You's most recognized screenwriters and most
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  Speaker 5: recommended as well. Two of his pilots, Michael Sermon and
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  Speaker 5: Size seven Red were both optioned by a Toronto based
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  Speaker 5: production company, and in twenty seventeen he was signed by
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  Speaker 5: a Purple Skull management. Ladies and gentlemen, this is James Moore.
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  Speaker 5: I know you went to Ohio State and it's usually later, yes,
• 2:36
  Speaker 5: you got You could tell that James is an alum
• 2:39
  Speaker 5: because any time to say Ohio State, it's always corrected
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  Speaker 5: as the Ohio State.
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  Speaker 6: Right.
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  Speaker 4: So was this right around the time though, that you.
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  Speaker 5: Got bit by the writing bug, so to speak, and
• 2:53
  Speaker 5: it started sort of you know, taking shape from there.
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  Speaker 6: Swear to god, it actually happened way earlier than that,
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  Speaker 6: Like back in elementary school. I wrote a play that
• 3:06
  Speaker 6: we that we put on for for the entire school
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  Speaker 6: when I was in the fifth grade, and that was
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  Speaker 6: the first time I was just like, huh, this writing
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  Speaker 6: things kind of cool, and initially I just wanted to
• 3:18
  Speaker 6: be an author. But uh, somewhere in the like early nineties,
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  Speaker 6: I got hooked up with with the with the young
• 3:27
  Speaker 6: man who was working he was a trainer working with
• 3:32
  Speaker 6: fitness competitor and I used to write music for fitness
• 3:34
  Speaker 6: competitors and bodybuilders, and we just got to talking about
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  Speaker 6: movies and TV and comic books and everything, and and uh,
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  Speaker 6: after about three hours, yes, he said, Hey, you ever
• 3:44
  Speaker 6: thought about shooting a movie? And I'm like, shooting a movie?
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  Speaker 6: I'm like, what does that look like? You know? And
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  Speaker 6: the next thing I knew I was I was pinning
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  Speaker 6: my first script, had no idea what I was doing.
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  Speaker 6: And a couple of weeks later we shot, we shot
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  Speaker 6: a short and it was like, yeah, that's it, Okay,
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  Speaker 6: this is what I want to do.
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  Speaker 5: So when you were penning the script for this short film, James,
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  Speaker 5: did you did you sort of grab all those scripts
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  Speaker 5: to see how the format should be or were you
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  Speaker 5: just just sort.
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  Speaker 4: Of creating your own thing?
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  Speaker 6: You know what? I was just kind of going off
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  Speaker 6: the cup of of of what I a few things
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  Speaker 6: that I seen, but I actually had at that point,
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  Speaker 6: had not even read a professionally written script. So it
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  Speaker 6: was just like, I mean, I was just straight winging
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  Speaker 6: it completely. But we got we got it, you know,
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  Speaker 6: we got to put together, we gotta shot it. You know,
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  Speaker 6: it wasn't the greatest thing in the world, but I
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  Speaker 6: you know, I'm proud that we actually managed to get
• 4:35
  Speaker 6: it from from conception to it's actually something to put
• 4:37
  Speaker 6: down on top.
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  Speaker 5: So whatever happened to the short film? Did you take
• 4:42
  Speaker 5: it around and show what it liked to very like
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  Speaker 5: film festivals and such, you.
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  Speaker 6: Know, like like most short films that at that time.
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  Speaker 6: Absolutely no, it was horrible. It was I have I
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  Speaker 6: have to admit, It's the best thing that I got
• 4:59
  Speaker 6: out of it was realizing what I didn't know. And
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  Speaker 6: I think by the time that you know, we finally
• 5:05
  Speaker 6: had a finished cut and I'm looking back and I'm going,
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  Speaker 6: that was okay, that was okay. That was absolutely awful.
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  Speaker 6: But I needed to know what it took to actually
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  Speaker 6: become a screenwriter. And I think like a year later,
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  Speaker 6: it's the first time that I actually picked up a book,
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  Speaker 6: which was Robert McKee's story, and then like a year
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  Speaker 6: following that, actually flew out to LA for the story seminar.
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  Speaker 5: So at that point in time, so you were again
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  Speaker 5: you were still living in Cleveland, so the Columbia started
• 5:36
  Speaker 5: the yeah, Cleveland area, and then you sort of you
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  Speaker 5: took this out to LA and you took a play
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  Speaker 5: out to LA to study under McKee. So at that
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  Speaker 5: point in time, was like were youth always hearing things
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  Speaker 5: like McKee is like the guy to go to to
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  Speaker 5: learn screenwriting.
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  Speaker 6: He was at the time, like the main guy. He
• 5:55
  Speaker 6: was the guy that's like, look, if you're going to
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  Speaker 6: figure out if this is actually for you or not
• 5:59
  Speaker 6: for you, then that's what you need to do. And
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  Speaker 6: I have to say that at the time it lived
• 6:04
  Speaker 6: up to its name. It was straight fire and brimstone.
• 6:09
  Speaker 6: I don't know, I don't know if you've ever listened
• 6:12
  Speaker 6: to him speak, but this man pulls absolutely no punches,
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  Speaker 6: I mean, whatsoever. And I've taken then this is how
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  Speaker 6: bad it was. I'm picking the class twice. I'm picking
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  Speaker 6: the seminar twice. So I went back for additional punishment.
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  Speaker 6: But I mean, but there was so there was so
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  Speaker 6: much stuff that I didn't even have a clue about
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  Speaker 6: that he opened my eyes to. Plus, I had an
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  Speaker 6: opportunity to actually meet other screenwriters who are actually working
• 6:41
  Speaker 6: at the time and other people who were looking to
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  Speaker 6: become screenwriters, and it was just an amazing experience. You know.
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  Speaker 5: Actually, last year, in April, April twenty sixteen, I actually
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  Speaker 5: went to m cky seminar in New York City. Didn't
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  Speaker 5: go out to LA unfortunately, but I went to New
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  Speaker 5: York City, which is you know, I'm in Philadelphia. It's
• 7:01
  Speaker 5: about what two hours to give or take. And I
• 7:04
  Speaker 5: went up there. I actually won the McKee this writing
• 7:08
  Speaker 5: this open writing contest thing he had and I actually
• 7:11
  Speaker 5: won in first place. Was I got to go up
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  Speaker 5: to take his his story seminar for free up in
• 7:16
  Speaker 5: New York. So and I went up there and it
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  Speaker 5: was actually great because I actually quit a pretty crappy
• 7:24
  Speaker 5: job the day before.
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  Speaker 4: It was my last day put in my two weeks.
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  Speaker 5: It was April the nineteenth, and then on April the twentieth,
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  Speaker 5: I was.
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  Speaker 4: Traveling up to New York to go to go to
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  Speaker 4: this McKee.
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  Speaker 5: Seminar, and it was like it made it like ten
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  Speaker 5: times better because I was like, man, I don't got
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  Speaker 5: this crappy job anymore. I got to you know, now
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  Speaker 5: I'm talking now I'm hanging around with other screenwriters.
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  Speaker 4: It was fantastic.
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  Speaker 5: And you're right, you know, he really doesn't pull any punches,
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  Speaker 5: and you know, he just yeah, he just tells you
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  Speaker 5: you know what exactly you know is going on. And
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  Speaker 5: the reason I always bring it up too is because
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  Speaker 5: you know there is I mean McKee. Obviously he still
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  Speaker 5: goes around, he still does these seminars, but as you
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  Speaker 5: and I both know, James, there's a lot of other options.
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  Speaker 4: Out there now for screenwriters to learn from. Correct, you know,
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  Speaker 4: there there's there's so.
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  Speaker 5: Many things that I mean, And that's one of the
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  Speaker 5: questions I want to ask you too, is you know,
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  Speaker 5: there's so many different options out there. If you and
• 8:19
  Speaker 5: I typed in screenwriting classes or even online screenwriting classes
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  Speaker 5: into Google, I mean, we're gonna get thousands of hits,
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  Speaker 5: you know, we're gonna get thousands of so you know,
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  Speaker 5: so what are the things that you, James would recommend
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  Speaker 5: since you know you're actually out there doing it, you
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  Speaker 5: have a ton of like credentials, you have a ton
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  Speaker 5: of awards, you know, so what are some of the
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  Speaker 5: things that you would recommend that people look for if
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  Speaker 5: they were interested in taking like an on writing an
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  Speaker 5: online screenwriting class.
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  Speaker 6: So the biggest thing for me, I would look forward
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  Speaker 6: because I've taken and I mean just like a plethora
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  Speaker 6: of classes, the majority of them actually didn't live up
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  Speaker 6: to the hype. And that's that's pretty sad to say,
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  Speaker 6: because it's like the problem, the problem with most screenwriting
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  Speaker 6: classes not I mean, and there's a ton of good
• 9:04
  Speaker 6: ones out there. Let me say that there's a ton
• 9:06
  Speaker 6: of good ones out there, but but what most of
• 9:08
  Speaker 6: them don't teach you is how to be a professional screenwriter.
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  Speaker 6: And by that I mean this there's more to there's
• 9:16
  Speaker 6: more to this than just the creative side. So yeah, absolutely,
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  Speaker 6: you know everything that you can do to learn how
• 9:24
  Speaker 6: to be better when you're sitting alone, you know, first
• 9:27
  Speaker 6: thing in the morning and your underwear in front of
• 9:28
  Speaker 6: your computer, cold cup of coffee in your hand, it's
• 9:31
  Speaker 6: trying to trying to beat out a script. You know
• 9:33
  Speaker 6: everything that you can get on that side, get it
• 9:35
  Speaker 6: and get it well. But there's a whole, completely other
• 9:39
  Speaker 6: side to this that has to do with the business
• 9:42
  Speaker 6: of being a screenwriter and what it takes to not
• 9:46
  Speaker 6: only have great work, but but what it takes to
• 9:50
  Speaker 6: work with other great people who are going to help
• 9:53
  Speaker 6: you move your career to the next level. And that
• 9:55
  Speaker 6: was a crucial element that I found that was missing.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: and now back to the show.
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  Speaker 6: Early on, in a lot of the other screenwriting courses
• 10:12
  Speaker 6: that I took, and it wasn't until within the last
• 10:16
  Speaker 6: I want to say, maybe four four four years ago
• 10:20
  Speaker 6: now that I finally you know, figured out exactly you know,
• 10:24
  Speaker 6: what I needed, who are going to get it from?
• 10:27
  Speaker 6: And and they have a track record of being able
• 10:30
  Speaker 6: to to get people to the next level. So that's
• 10:33
  Speaker 6: the thing that I would most look for. Does does
• 10:35
  Speaker 6: the screenwriting course that you're looking to take move the
• 10:38
  Speaker 6: needle on their careers? So if I took if I
• 10:41
  Speaker 6: took a class and a year later after I've taken
• 10:44
  Speaker 6: this class, I'm absolutely no further in my my screenwriting
• 10:48
  Speaker 6: career than when I was a year ago. That it
• 10:50
  Speaker 6: was the worse. It was a wait of time. It
• 10:52
  Speaker 6: was an absolute waste of time. But even even if
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  Speaker 6: it moves you to the point where you can get
• 10:56
  Speaker 6: like the interest of an agent or a manager, or
• 10:59
  Speaker 6: get a or get a production coffee or you know,
• 11:01
  Speaker 6: or studio to read just to read something even if
• 11:04
  Speaker 6: they have on it, you've moved the need along your
• 11:06
  Speaker 6: career and that's worth it's weight and go.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, very true.
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  Speaker 5: And you know, getting people to actually you know, uh,
• 11:14
  Speaker 5: read your material and sit down and talk to you know,
• 11:17
  Speaker 5: so is so critical. It's sort of like the next
• 11:19
  Speaker 5: sort of level in screenwriting because you know, you have
• 11:21
  Speaker 5: to actually write a screenplay first, you know, and so
• 11:24
  Speaker 5: that's why, you know, I wanted to talk about you know,
• 11:26
  Speaker 5: we talked about my seminars here a lot on the
• 11:28
  Speaker 5: podcast because different you know, uh, writers and and and
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: directors I've had on have taped maybe you know, they
• 11:34
  Speaker 5: they haven't really gone to a seminar, but they've read
• 11:37
  Speaker 5: maybe Save the Cat, or the story's McKee or story
• 11:40
  Speaker 5: about McKee, and and you know other times. I mean,
• 11:42
  Speaker 5: I think you and I are very similar, James, in
• 11:45
  Speaker 5: that we've taken a.
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: Ton of courses, read a ton of books.
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: And you have to sort of read a ton of
• 11:52
  Speaker 5: books and take a ton of courses before you realize
• 11:54
  Speaker 5: you don't need a ton of books and a ton
• 11:55
  Speaker 5: of courses, because yeah, you know what I mean. It's
• 11:59
  Speaker 5: it's one of those things where you're like, man, I
• 12:01
  Speaker 5: you know, this is kind of like a hunch I
• 12:03
  Speaker 5: had when I first started this whole career, you know,
• 12:05
  Speaker 5: this whole thing. You know that that I could do
• 12:08
  Speaker 5: it this way, and you know, then you then you
• 12:09
  Speaker 5: get told no, no, you can't do it that way.
• 12:11
  Speaker 5: You got to follow this, and then by the end
• 12:13
  Speaker 5: you're like, you know, it's it's there is really no form.
• 12:16
  Speaker 5: There is no really right or wrong way to tell
• 12:18
  Speaker 5: a story per se. Because you know, when you when
• 12:22
  Speaker 5: you see these people talk about these rules of screenwriting
• 12:25
  Speaker 5: and rules of story, they they're they're not they're really
• 12:29
  Speaker 5: not telling you like a sort of That's what The
• 12:31
  Speaker 5: one thing I do like about McKee's story is he
• 12:33
  Speaker 5: talks about principles of story, right, and he talks about
• 12:36
  Speaker 5: you know, this happens, and this happens, but he doesn't
• 12:38
  Speaker 5: tell you like, oh, well it has to happen in
• 12:39
  Speaker 5: this order. Uh, you know, stuff like that, right, And
• 12:42
  Speaker 5: I think that and I think that's what.
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: A lot of the problems.
• 12:45
  Speaker 5: That problem is what I have with a lot of
• 12:46
  Speaker 5: these screenwriting guru so to speak, that I see always
• 12:49
  Speaker 5: pitching their classes online and I'm just thinking to myself,
• 12:52
  Speaker 5: well have they ever actually written a screenplay?
• 12:56
  Speaker 6: And you know, and you know, it's it's it's a
• 12:58
  Speaker 6: really you're you're absolutely on the right track with that,
• 13:02
  Speaker 6: cause it's it's a really fine line of of it's like, hey,
• 13:06
  Speaker 6: have you been out there? Have you done this? What
• 13:09
  Speaker 6: if you know? You know, because a lot of times
• 13:12
  Speaker 6: you just like me, you know, initially you just ran
• 13:15
  Speaker 6: out there and saw who was offering what And it's like, Okay,
• 13:17
  Speaker 6: that sounds good. I'll take it. Didn't didn't bother to
• 13:20
  Speaker 6: spend a moment. It's like, let me research this person.
• 13:23
  Speaker 6: Let me look on IMDb to see what their credits are,
• 13:25
  Speaker 6: and let me, you know, check out what you know
• 13:27
  Speaker 6: what the you know what, there's people other people in
• 13:29
  Speaker 6: the industry say about them, what other writers are even
• 13:32
  Speaker 6: saying about them. You know, didn't do any of that.
• 13:34
  Speaker 6: So had I done that early on, that would have
• 13:36
  Speaker 6: saved me so much money. I mean I could have.
• 13:42
  Speaker 6: I could I could have a nice vacation I could
• 13:45
  Speaker 6: have paid for twice with an amount of money that
• 13:48
  Speaker 6: I've spent over the years.
• 13:51
  Speaker 5: You know, it's funny too, James, because I look to
• 13:53
  Speaker 5: my left and there's a I know you can't see
• 13:55
  Speaker 5: it because it's a podcast, but I have a just
• 13:58
  Speaker 5: a a book case from top to bottom of books
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: next to me, and this is just screenwriting and filmmaking,
• 14:05
  Speaker 5: and it is. It is packed to the brim, it
• 14:08
  Speaker 5: is overflowing. At any second, it looks like it's going
• 14:11
  Speaker 5: to collapse on top of me and.
• 14:12
  Speaker 6: Just bury me.
• 14:13
  Speaker 5: And it just like and I'm sitting here going how
• 14:16
  Speaker 5: many times have I opened even a percentage, maybe even
• 14:20
  Speaker 5: five percent of these books, because half the time it's
• 14:23
  Speaker 5: it's sort of like it's it's almost like a lot
• 14:25
  Speaker 5: of these books are written by frustrated screenwriters, right who
• 14:27
  Speaker 5: go You know what, it's a lot more it's a
• 14:29
  Speaker 5: lot more money, or maybe a lot more sort of
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: a cachet, so to speak. If I write a book
• 14:35
  Speaker 5: about how to write a screenplay and actually writing that screen.
• 14:38
  Speaker 6: I will, I will be honest, and I have. I
• 14:40
  Speaker 6: have two of those bookshelves that you have one year
• 14:43
  Speaker 6: in LA and I've got one back at all. I've
• 14:45
  Speaker 6: got two of them. But I can I can honestly
• 14:47
  Speaker 6: tell you out of all of those books, they're only
• 14:49
  Speaker 6: through three that I've read cover to cover. McKee. Obviously,
• 14:53
  Speaker 6: I've read his book cover to cover. There's a book
• 14:58
  Speaker 6: that Warner Brothers says, that thing written by two of
• 15:01
  Speaker 6: the ladies who run their screenwriting workshop, that I've read
• 15:04
  Speaker 6: cover to cover, and the other the only other book
• 15:07
  Speaker 6: on screenwriting that I've read cover to cover is by
• 15:10
  Speaker 6: Stephen Pratzfield, The War of Art. That's it. Those those
• 15:15
  Speaker 6: are my is you want to call them my bibles,
• 15:16
  Speaker 6: those are my three bibles in terms of not only
• 15:20
  Speaker 6: not only just what it takes to be a good screenwriter,
• 15:25
  Speaker 6: but the discipline behind it, the taking care of yourself
• 15:29
  Speaker 6: as a person, as well as the business side of it.
• 15:32
  Speaker 6: And there's and there's so much, there's so much more
• 15:35
  Speaker 6: on the business side of it that I think a
• 15:37
  Speaker 6: lot of people either just you know, you just don't
• 15:41
  Speaker 6: hear about it, or you know, because when you hear
• 15:43
  Speaker 6: all the stories about oh, so and so just sold
• 15:45
  Speaker 6: a script for for you know, for six figures some
• 15:48
  Speaker 6: and you know, and they're they're just completely unknown, it's
• 15:51
  Speaker 6: just like, no, that doesn't that's not how the way
• 15:53
  Speaker 6: it really works. You know, that person probably spent ten
• 15:56
  Speaker 6: years struggling, beating, beating script after script, hitting the pavement,
• 16:02
  Speaker 6: being told no and rejected hundreds of times before that
• 16:06
  Speaker 6: actually happened. So, you know, it just does not happen overnight.
• 16:10
  Speaker 6: And so many people, unfortunately still hold on to that
• 16:14
  Speaker 6: belief that, yeah, I couldn't fly out the LA was
• 16:16
  Speaker 6: my script that you know, and nobody knows me and
• 16:19
  Speaker 6: and and I'm gonna make a million dollars, yeah, and
• 16:22
  Speaker 6: that's gonna happen.
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: There.
• 16:27
  Speaker 5: I don't know if you've ever seen overnight the documentary
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: about Troy Duffy, the director and writer of The Boondock Saints,
• 16:33
  Speaker 5: and he just it's a story about a guy who
• 16:37
  Speaker 5: has given everything James and just completely pisses it away.
• 16:41
  Speaker 5: And I actually had a friend of mine who actually
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: knew Troy years before he actually you know, got it.
• 16:48
  Speaker 5: It was featured in this documentary and then later on
• 16:50
  Speaker 5: made the actual boon Dock Saints. And he said, for
• 16:52
  Speaker 5: years he was working at I think it was in Boston.
• 16:56
  Speaker 5: He was at He was a bartender, but he had
• 16:59
  Speaker 5: a ton of content acts and he eventually some friend
• 17:02
  Speaker 5: of his became a junior agent at I think the
• 17:05
  Speaker 5: Weinstein Company.
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: And that's how he was getting his foot in the.
• 17:08
  Speaker 5: Door for these years, was that he had all these
• 17:11
  Speaker 5: friends and then finally they liked the Boondocks Saints script.
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: Well that's how it all happened. But he said, you know,
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: if you listen to Troy tell the story. One night
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: he got drunk, he came home for a night of drinking,
• 17:22
  Speaker 5: started writing the script, finished it in a week, and
• 17:24
  Speaker 5: then the next week they were pitching at the Harvey
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: Weinstein and then all of a sudden, you know, he's
• 17:28
  Speaker 5: just an overnight success.
• 17:29
  Speaker 6: Wow. And I'm gonna say that if it can't happen,
• 17:35
  Speaker 6: because I mean I would every now and then, but
• 17:36
  Speaker 6: but actually banging on that happening is just like, no,
• 17:39
  Speaker 6: that is that is that is the fastest way to
• 17:43
  Speaker 6: the bottom of a bottle of jack or whatever. And
• 17:46
  Speaker 6: you know, and it's just like, you know, I'm going
• 17:48
  Speaker 6: to come to live with my parents in Cleveland. No, no, no, no,
• 17:52
  Speaker 6: we can't have that. I would, I would. I would
• 17:56
  Speaker 6: tell people this, it's it's a and and this this
• 17:59
  Speaker 6: was the hardest left for me to learn. And when
• 18:02
  Speaker 6: I tell people this, it's like, you know, I say
• 18:04
  Speaker 6: it very catching me because I was exactly that person
• 18:08
  Speaker 6: before I figured it out to You have to understand
• 18:13
  Speaker 6: that this is, first, last, and always a business, and
• 18:19
  Speaker 6: like any business, people who are in it, who are
• 18:22
  Speaker 6: on the other side where we're trying to get are
• 18:24
  Speaker 6: about making money. So if you are able to present
• 18:29
  Speaker 6: yourself as couple as someone that is like, hey, I
• 18:35
  Speaker 6: really would not mind spending the next two to three
• 18:38
  Speaker 6: years working with this guy. You think like a lot
• 18:39
  Speaker 6: of fun and knowledgeable not only about your craft, but
• 18:43
  Speaker 6: have at least a baseline understanding of what the other
• 18:46
  Speaker 6: side does you can be successful because if you don't
• 18:48
  Speaker 6: have that doors slam in three point five seconds every
• 18:53
  Speaker 6: single time, and no matter what any any other trainer,
• 18:58
  Speaker 6: guru or whatnot tells you, if you don't have that
• 19:01
  Speaker 6: bathic information in brain ingrained into you where where it
• 19:06
  Speaker 6: has become a part of you, where you can kind
• 19:08
  Speaker 6: of step on the side of yourself, take some honest
• 19:11
  Speaker 6: criticism of your work and cannot look at it as
• 19:13
  Speaker 6: someone's beating it down, but they're actually giving you the
• 19:16
  Speaker 6: tools to help go make it better so you can
• 19:19
  Speaker 6: come back and be stronger. If you can do that,
• 19:21
  Speaker 6: you can be extraordinary. But the problem is ninety percent
• 19:26
  Speaker 6: of screenwriters out there don't want to take that note.
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, James, that's very true.
• 19:34
  Speaker 5: And I've seen the two in screenwriting groups where you know,
• 19:37
  Speaker 5: people try to help each other out and sometimes, you know,
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: it's a little bit of tough love. Other times it's
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: more of okay, let's try it this way. You know,
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: it's it's a little more of a positive feel to it.
• 19:49
  Speaker 5: And some people just they can't sort of hear anything.
• 19:53
  Speaker 5: They're just so focused on this one idea.
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our and
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: now back to the show.
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: Or this one sort of brilliant stroke.
• 20:09
  Speaker 5: It's almost as if, you know, it's almost like they're
• 20:12
  Speaker 5: transfixed on this and it's and nobody can tell him anything.
• 20:15
  Speaker 5: So even even if they did get into a room
• 20:18
  Speaker 5: with executives, you know, it would be it would be
• 20:21
  Speaker 5: almost pointless. I actually knew a screenwriter, James. I'll tell
• 20:23
  Speaker 5: you a little funny story. I knew a screenwriting a
• 20:25
  Speaker 5: screenwriter who actually one time told a producer after he
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: had written the script. The producer was looking at it,
• 20:31
  Speaker 5: and the screenwriter told him. He goes, if you fuck
• 20:33
  Speaker 5: up my story, he goes, I'm gonna come after you
• 20:36
  Speaker 5: where the producer. The producer goes, well, I'm certainly not
• 20:41
  Speaker 5: going to work with you, And the guy was actually shocked.
• 20:44
  Speaker 5: He goes, why not, he goes, He goes, the script's brilliant,
• 20:46
  Speaker 5: he goes, the script is very solid. He goes, But
• 20:49
  Speaker 5: but he's like, you know, I just I don't want
• 20:51
  Speaker 5: to work with you that and and that screenwriter James,
• 20:54
  Speaker 5: I know you're going to be shocked.
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: But he does not work in the business anymore.
• 20:57
  Speaker 6: Oh, I'm so shocked.
• 21:02
  Speaker 5: I know, it's a shocker. Of shockers, but he does
• 21:04
  Speaker 5: not work in the business anyhoy.
• 21:05
  Speaker 6: And here's the thing that every screenwriter, who's everybody who's
• 21:09
  Speaker 6: trying to become a great screenwriter needs to understand. Half
• 21:14
  Speaker 6: of the work. Only half is when you're sitting there
• 21:16
  Speaker 6: by yourself, creating screen creating story, creating solid, great, incredible
• 21:22
  Speaker 6: story that people will people will want to see eventually
• 21:26
  Speaker 6: buy and create. The other half is being a people person.
• 21:32
  Speaker 6: And I can't tell you how many other screen screenwriters
• 21:35
  Speaker 6: I've met over the years who were just like, well, no,
• 21:38
  Speaker 6: I don't network, I don't I don't do any of
• 21:40
  Speaker 6: that stuff. I don't you know, I don't need to
• 21:41
  Speaker 6: be around people. I'm like, what serious? And and I'm
• 21:49
  Speaker 6: like and again I laugh now because at a certain
• 21:54
  Speaker 6: particulated importance time, early early on in my career, I
• 21:57
  Speaker 6: was kind of like one of those people. And and
• 21:59
  Speaker 6: it's it took me sitting back and going what am
• 22:03
  Speaker 6: I doing wrong with my screenwriting career? Because I felt
• 22:08
  Speaker 6: like this was back in maybe two thousand and nine,
• 22:11
  Speaker 6: Between two thousand and nine and twenty twelve, I felt
• 22:14
  Speaker 6: like I was on a wheel, like on a hands toil.
• 22:15
  Speaker 6: It was getting absolutely nowhere. Than I was doing exactly
• 22:18
  Speaker 6: the same things over and over again, expecting different results.
• 22:21
  Speaker 6: So it was like I was watching the Titanic expecting
• 22:24
  Speaker 6: Jack to make it not hide me and what what
• 22:29
  Speaker 6: did it for me? And she she will, she will
• 22:32
  Speaker 6: kill me for this. But I credit and Kimberrell, who's
• 22:35
  Speaker 6: a great friend, the screenwriter and author who i'd met,
• 22:40
  Speaker 6: who who I actually was. I was working with the
• 22:43
  Speaker 6: production company looking at pitches at that one of the
• 22:45
  Speaker 6: eighteen tip functions and had seen her, heard her pitch you.
• 22:49
  Speaker 6: She had a great pitch. And fast forward a couple
• 22:52
  Speaker 6: of years later and she's writing stuff going on and
• 22:55
  Speaker 6: I'm like, what was the difference that made it for you?
• 22:57
  Speaker 6: And she told me about the one, the one screenwriting
• 23:00
  Speaker 6: course that made all the difference from me, and that
• 23:02
  Speaker 6: was screenwriting you. And that that really changed the game
• 23:08
  Speaker 6: for me. That completely changed the game because because of
• 23:12
  Speaker 6: screenwriting you, I understand now the business of screenwriting not
• 23:17
  Speaker 6: just simply the hour that you will stand writing rewriting
• 23:21
  Speaker 6: you as you and I both know, you know that
• 23:23
  Speaker 6: that first script is just a vomit script. That's all
• 23:26
  Speaker 6: it is. You know, It's just you just have to
• 23:28
  Speaker 6: get it out. You give birth to that thing, you
• 23:30
  Speaker 6: lay it aside for a couple of days, you go
• 23:32
  Speaker 6: have some pancakes. Yes, we'll talk about that later, and
• 23:36
  Speaker 6: you know, you fill out, you do what you gotta do,
• 23:39
  Speaker 6: and then you come back and you work and you
• 23:40
  Speaker 6: turn that thing into the great script that's going to
• 23:43
  Speaker 6: help start your career. But but that was that was
• 23:46
  Speaker 6: the defining moment for me, because I'm looking at her
• 23:49
  Speaker 6: career and I'm looking at the changes that she's made,
• 23:52
  Speaker 6: and I looked at the changes all the other people
• 23:54
  Speaker 6: who had who had called through it had made, and
• 23:57
  Speaker 6: I'm like, this is the real deal, and I got
• 24:00
  Speaker 6: I gotta do this, and and it was. It reminded
• 24:04
  Speaker 6: me a lot of McKee. It was a little bit
• 24:05
  Speaker 6: of that fire and brimstone, but it also came with
• 24:08
  Speaker 6: a vast amount of business intelligence that I think most
• 24:12
  Speaker 6: screenwriters will not will not find in any screenwriting book
• 24:16
  Speaker 6: that's out there.
• 24:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I've I'm a member of the Pro Series as well, James,
• 24:22
  Speaker 5: And I know you took the Pro Series as well,
• 24:25
  Speaker 5: And you know, it's just it's funny because you know
• 24:29
  Speaker 5: when I took the when I took the course the
• 24:31
  Speaker 5: screenwriting you, I was a little bit hesitant, and to
• 24:34
  Speaker 5: be honest, I because again I'm like, oh I'm not
• 24:37
  Speaker 5: another course.
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: I was like, man, not another course.
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: And then I realized, well, there's so many good things
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: that are coming out of it. Like there's so many
• 24:44
  Speaker 5: people that I know of who are like who just
• 24:46
  Speaker 5: who said something similar to what you just said? Who
• 24:48
  Speaker 5: were who said you Look, it's not the same type
• 24:50
  Speaker 5: of course, and and it actually focuses on other things,
• 24:54
  Speaker 5: and it focuses on the business, and you have assignments
• 24:57
  Speaker 5: there that are due every day, every other day.
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: And then also the.
• 25:01
  Speaker 5: Big one for me too was the was the group
• 25:03
  Speaker 5: because you actually get that secret Facebook group where it's
• 25:06
  Speaker 5: like a ton of you know, like minded people. So
• 25:08
  Speaker 5: I I, you know, we took I took the course,
• 25:10
  Speaker 5: and I was like, okay, now it's like the nitty
• 25:13
  Speaker 5: gritty of this, you know. Now it's like, okay, look,
• 25:15
  Speaker 5: if a producer asks you for X, Y and Z,
• 25:19
  Speaker 5: they're gonna expect you to deliver.
• 25:21
  Speaker 6: X, Y and Z exactly.
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: And you know, you know what I mean.
• 25:24
  Speaker 5: And I think a lot of other amateur screenwriters that before,
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: you know, before they went in, would say things like, oh,
• 25:29
  Speaker 5: you know, well, if a producer, producer doesn't like the script.
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: Maybe I'm not the screenwriter for them. Well you know,
• 25:35
  Speaker 5: I mean maybe maybe that's the case sometimes, you know,
• 25:37
  Speaker 5: because obviously, as you know, James, this is like a
• 25:40
  Speaker 5: relationship when you're when you're a screenwriter, you know, going
• 25:43
  Speaker 5: to a producer and vice versa. I mean, you have
• 25:45
  Speaker 5: to make sure that it's gonna fit and everyone can
• 25:47
  Speaker 5: get along because you know, you don't want to have
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: any sort of anything bad happen.
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: You don't have any infighting.
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: But uh so, but but you know, maybe you know,
• 25:55
  Speaker 5: but they will say things like, oh, well, the producer
• 25:57
  Speaker 5: wants me to change this or that, and I just
• 25:59
  Speaker 5: can't do that because everything is you know whatever.
• 26:01
  Speaker 6: But oh my goodness, I can't. I can't name any names.
• 26:08
  Speaker 6: But I picked up an assignment because uh the screenwriter
• 26:14
  Speaker 6: who was on it initially refused to make changes and
• 26:20
  Speaker 6: and they were and the people uh approached me or
• 26:25
  Speaker 6: was just like, hey, we hear you're you know, you're
• 26:27
  Speaker 6: you're pretty good and you know, YadA YadA YadA, would
• 26:30
  Speaker 6: you be interested in taking a shot at this? It's like, okay,
• 26:32
  Speaker 6: well what are you guys going? And you know, we
• 26:34
  Speaker 6: sat down and you know, they gave me, you know,
• 26:36
  Speaker 6: basically their notes of what they wanted to do, and
• 26:38
  Speaker 6: I'm like, oh, yeah, excellentle I can probably knock that
• 26:41
  Speaker 6: out in two three weeks, I think, give me. I
• 26:42
  Speaker 6: think give me four weeks just to be sure, because
• 26:44
  Speaker 6: I want to, you know, run it through my own
• 26:46
  Speaker 6: process and make sure that I've got it to where
• 26:48
  Speaker 6: you need it. But obviously, if there's any questions or
• 26:50
  Speaker 6: any additional changes I need to make, I'm I'm good
• 26:53
  Speaker 6: to do it. They were a static and it wasn't
• 26:58
  Speaker 6: until later that I found out that I actually knew
• 27:00
  Speaker 6: who that other writer was. Not only did did I
• 27:03
  Speaker 6: get that assignment, they gave me another assignment on top
• 27:06
  Speaker 6: of it. So it's it's really it's almost the ultimate
• 27:12
  Speaker 6: screenwriter's fatal flaw is when someone gives you a note
• 27:16
  Speaker 6: that they want to make a change, to say I'm
• 27:20
  Speaker 6: not going to do that or I can't do that.
• 27:23
  Speaker 6: That is literally putting the stake through the heart of
• 27:27
  Speaker 6: your screenwriting career because at that moment, and this is
• 27:32
  Speaker 6: and I've gone through both the Pro series and the
• 27:33
  Speaker 6: Matters series, the Master screenwriting class, when when you get
• 27:37
  Speaker 6: to the level where people are comfortable enough to ask
• 27:41
  Speaker 6: you for those changes. And you say no, you invalidate
• 27:45
  Speaker 6: their beliefing you. You invalidate the credibility that they believe
• 27:49
  Speaker 6: you already have. And that is what can kill your career.
• 27:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah, because you know that's so true, because you know,
• 27:58
  Speaker 5: as we're just saying, you know, it's or like a relationship,
• 28:01
  Speaker 5: you know, and you have to be able to trust
• 28:02
  Speaker 5: one another, and you have to be able to know
• 28:04
  Speaker 5: I can count on this person because and you've been there.
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: Before too, James, where you've been on.
• 28:08
  Speaker 5: A production in one role or another and you've you know,
• 28:12
  Speaker 5: you've seen people who can't be counted on. They you know,
• 28:15
  Speaker 5: maybe it's it's like the student short film where we've
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: had you know, I know you've probably seen this too,
• 28:19
  Speaker 5: where people have not shown up.
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: Hey, I want to I want to be an actor.
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: They'll tell you.
• 28:23
  Speaker 5: They'll tell you so they're blue in the face, James,
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: I want to be an actor. I want to be this. Okay,
• 28:27
  Speaker 5: here's your chance. And a day comes and they know
• 28:29
  Speaker 5: show where they call you the night before. Yeah, and
• 28:32
  Speaker 5: it's just it boggles my mind, like and then you know,
• 28:35
  Speaker 5: I and just another little quick story, James, I I
• 28:38
  Speaker 5: had somebody who wants no show one of my short
• 28:40
  Speaker 5: films years ago, and she actually said to me, well,
• 28:44
  Speaker 5: make you know, always keep me in mind for future roles.
• 28:47
  Speaker 5: And I sat there and I stared at this email
• 28:49
  Speaker 5: and I.
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: And I go, huh. So I actually emailed her back
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: and I and I said to her, why on earth
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: would I keep you in mind for future roles when
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: you didn't even show up for this role? Like, why
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: would I do that?
• 29:00
  Speaker 6: Exactly exactly, And and it's it's, you know, I get
• 29:05
  Speaker 6: it when and it's it's it's kind of a you know,
• 29:09
  Speaker 6: especially if you're working on a project or something and
• 29:12
  Speaker 6: you're doing it short it's not a lot of munch
• 29:13
  Speaker 6: involved or whatever, or it's a passion project or something,
• 29:16
  Speaker 6: and people are just like, you know, I'm not getting
• 29:19
  Speaker 6: they you know whatever. But but but but if you
• 29:22
  Speaker 6: think of it, and if you think of it in
• 29:23
  Speaker 6: this way, that person that that you're that you're working
• 29:28
  Speaker 6: with that day, if you if you if you show up,
• 29:31
  Speaker 6: if you just show up and commit to whatever it
• 29:34
  Speaker 6: is that you and do what you promise to do,
• 29:37
  Speaker 6: wherever they go at some point down the road in
• 29:39
  Speaker 6: their career, they will remember they will they will either
• 29:43
  Speaker 6: a like like you just said, you know, why would
• 29:46
  Speaker 6: you ever hire this person or you know, for any
• 29:48
  Speaker 6: future projects, because they've demonstrated to you that they can't
• 29:51
  Speaker 6: be trusted with the with the smallest of stuff. So
• 29:54
  Speaker 6: that by the time the Dave Bullets blows up to
• 29:56
  Speaker 6: be doing the big stuff.
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: Will be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: and now back to the show.
• 30:08
  Speaker 6: Uh uh no, you kid all days. That's it, you know,
• 30:14
  Speaker 6: but but it's it's it's it's a reality that that
• 30:18
  Speaker 6: a lot of people in the industry don't seem to
• 30:22
  Speaker 6: fully grasp a lot because for whatever reason, it's just
• 30:26
  Speaker 6: like doing you know, it's just like eh and you know,
• 30:28
  Speaker 6: and and especially here in La people it's notorious that
• 30:32
  Speaker 6: people will flay fun. It's just I mean, it's almost
• 30:34
  Speaker 6: a given. And and even even with screenwriting, when you
• 30:37
  Speaker 6: go to to pitch here to talk to somebody and
• 30:41
  Speaker 6: you know, you shake your hand and they kind of
• 30:43
  Speaker 6: give you this kind of glazed overlook. It'sn't because they
• 30:46
  Speaker 6: don't you don't take that person. It's not because they
• 30:49
  Speaker 6: don't like you, or they don't care about you, or
• 30:52
  Speaker 6: they think that your story is crab It's like they've
• 30:54
  Speaker 6: had so many people that they've had to listen to
• 30:57
  Speaker 6: or put up with that just could not deliver, or
• 31:00
  Speaker 6: you know, or just for whatever reason, weren't weren't there,
• 31:02
  Speaker 6: weren't ready. So you begin to have an understanding of
• 31:07
  Speaker 6: what what this actually means for me is that if
• 31:09
  Speaker 6: I'm on Dave's step and I know that this other
• 31:12
  Speaker 6: person is going to flake, I'm thinking, in my mind,
• 31:15
  Speaker 6: this was my opportunity to show day that I'm committing,
• 31:20
  Speaker 6: that I'm that I'm dependable that no matter what he does,
• 31:23
  Speaker 6: whether we're just shooting in the basement somewhere off side
• 31:27
  Speaker 6: of the river in Pennsylvania or we're down in Times Square.
• 31:31
  Speaker 6: You know, with a million dollar budget, I'm one hundred percent,
• 31:34
  Speaker 6: no matter if it's a dollar a million dollars, because
• 31:38
  Speaker 6: that's what Dave's going to remember at the end of
• 31:39
  Speaker 6: the day. Who are the people that I can count
• 31:42
  Speaker 6: on to help me deliver what I need to deliver.
• 31:48
  Speaker 5: And that's so well put, James, you know, because I
• 31:50
  Speaker 5: there's a saying that I have too, and it's basically,
• 31:52
  Speaker 5: things are only as professional as you make it out
• 31:54
  Speaker 5: to be.
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: And you know that's why whenever you know.
• 31:57
  Speaker 5: I have people on the on the podcast and they
• 32:00
  Speaker 5: discussed you know, hey, listen, we're not on the either coast.
• 32:02
  Speaker 5: We're in the middle of America, and we're making a
• 32:05
  Speaker 5: film in this town that probably has a population of
• 32:08
  Speaker 5: maybe a thousand or whatever. And you know, if they're
• 32:10
  Speaker 5: taking it seriously though, I said, you know, that's all
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: you need. I said, because if you're taking it seriously,
• 32:15
  Speaker 5: you're meticulously planning things out. You've got people that you know,
• 32:18
  Speaker 5: can you can depend on. I said that that's making
• 32:21
  Speaker 5: a true movie right there, not this stuff where you
• 32:25
  Speaker 5: know you're gonna sort of get your friends together and
• 32:27
  Speaker 5: make a movie. I said that I've never heard of
• 32:29
  Speaker 5: that working. I know a lot of people who tried
• 32:32
  Speaker 5: that and their never has worked. But uh, but you know,
• 32:35
  Speaker 5: and you mentioned too that you're because you're you're in
• 32:37
  Speaker 5: the LA area and I and you know, you mentioned
• 32:39
  Speaker 5: people would flake out on you or flake on a production.
• 32:42
  Speaker 6: Yeah, And I've.
• 32:43
  Speaker 5: Heard other people say that as well, And it always
• 32:45
  Speaker 5: puzzles me because to me, if you if you've taken
• 32:49
  Speaker 5: that long stride, that that that that that gamble to
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: move out to l A, you're out in LA right now.
• 32:55
  Speaker 5: I don't know why every single day you wouldn't have
• 32:58
  Speaker 5: your game face on. And if James Moore came to
• 33:02
  Speaker 5: me and said, hey, I need you for a production
• 33:04
  Speaker 5: for X, Y and Z, even if it was to
• 33:07
  Speaker 5: stack Wood at catering, they would say, you know what,
• 33:10
  Speaker 5: I'm gonna be the best wooter stacker that James has
• 33:13
  Speaker 5: ever seen, or I'm gonna be the best whatever. Because again,
• 33:16
  Speaker 5: like you just said, you gotta. If you don't, you
• 33:19
  Speaker 5: don't know who's gonna you know, be you know, having
• 33:21
  Speaker 5: a multimillion dollar production next. I mean honestly, James, I
• 33:24
  Speaker 5: always see you. You're always moving forward. And that's why
• 33:27
  Speaker 5: I'm glad I had you on the podcast by the way,
• 33:29
  Speaker 5: because I'm like, man, this guy is just always has has.
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: An iron a new iron in the fire.
• 33:34
  Speaker 5: He's always in, you know, an inspiration and I and
• 33:38
  Speaker 5: and that's such a great point you just made though,
• 33:41
  Speaker 5: is you know when these people flake out, they don't
• 33:43
  Speaker 5: show up or whatever, and then they try to ask
• 33:45
  Speaker 5: if they could work with you again, You're like, well,
• 33:47
  Speaker 5: why why would we even bother me that?
• 33:49
  Speaker 6: And you know, for me personally, it's a it's all
• 33:53
  Speaker 6: about you know, realizing and recognizing that for everything that
• 33:57
  Speaker 6: I'm doing and everything that I've done that I didn't
• 34:01
  Speaker 6: do it once, I didn't do it by myself, and
• 34:03
  Speaker 6: and there was always someone there along the way to
• 34:06
  Speaker 6: at least be able to recognize and then open the
• 34:09
  Speaker 6: door for me. So I'm very grateful and very appreciative
• 34:12
  Speaker 6: of a lot of the stuff that I've been able
• 34:15
  Speaker 6: to do. Quick Story the very first indie film that
• 34:19
  Speaker 6: I worked on when I got here, I worked on
• 34:21
  Speaker 6: as a PA and I remember I got to call
• 34:23
  Speaker 6: it like one o'clock in the a m. And one
• 34:28
  Speaker 6: of the producers called me up and he said, hey,
• 34:29
  Speaker 6: we definitely want to go ahead and use you. Can
• 34:31
  Speaker 6: you bet on set tomorrow? And yead yeah, and this
• 34:33
  Speaker 6: is what you're gonna do. Granted, outside of the short
• 34:37
  Speaker 6: film that I shot in Ohio, I'd never worked on
• 34:39
  Speaker 6: a full blown set. So I show up, I'm there.
• 34:43
  Speaker 6: They you know, they get me my my headset, my
• 34:45
  Speaker 6: might be you know, my Milwaukee you know, and they
• 34:49
  Speaker 6: give me. They give me one instruction every time the
• 34:51
  Speaker 6: director yells cut and make sure he has a bottle
• 34:54
  Speaker 6: of water. Just make sure he's good to go. Other
• 34:57
  Speaker 6: than that, you know, make sure you know I'm covering.
• 34:59
  Speaker 6: He as you just make sure everything's why, I don't
• 35:00
  Speaker 6: whatever it takes, and I would always I always made
• 35:05
  Speaker 6: sure I'm right. Before he called cut, I had not one,
• 35:08
  Speaker 6: but two bottles of water in my hand. So not
• 35:10
  Speaker 6: only did I have a bottle of water for the director,
• 35:12
  Speaker 6: I had a bottle of water for the ad. The
• 35:16
  Speaker 6: first night after I finished the first day of working
• 35:19
  Speaker 6: on that called me again. We didn't wrap until like
• 35:22
  Speaker 6: three am in the morning. The producer who initially called
• 35:25
  Speaker 6: me called me back in. He says, hey, we want
• 35:27
  Speaker 6: you for the next eight days for the rest of
• 35:29
  Speaker 6: the shoot, and we also like to bump your pay,
• 35:32
  Speaker 6: and which I'm like, oh my god, okay, but but
• 35:35
  Speaker 6: but it's that, It's that little bit of effort at showing.
• 35:38
  Speaker 6: It's like, look, even the smallest job you gave me
• 35:42
  Speaker 6: to do, I want to make sure I'm doing it
• 35:44
  Speaker 6: one hundred and ten percent. It was just getting water
• 35:47
  Speaker 6: for for this director. That was it. You know, I
• 35:50
  Speaker 6: didn't I didn't like, ooh, can I get your autograph?
• 35:53
  Speaker 6: You know, I wasn't that. You know, I didn't. I
• 35:55
  Speaker 6: didn't go start crazy. You know, I did my job.
• 35:57
  Speaker 6: I showed up and and and I think it was
• 36:00
  Speaker 6: about the fourth or fifth a when we you know,
• 36:02
  Speaker 6: we we both for lunch one day he actually pulled
• 36:04
  Speaker 6: me to side and said, hey, so you know, you know,
• 36:07
  Speaker 6: what are you doing, what are you working on? What
• 36:08
  Speaker 6: are you into? And now he's now he's reaching out
• 36:11
  Speaker 6: to me without me having to go, oh, would you
• 36:13
  Speaker 6: please read my script? Which is another mistake that a
• 36:16
  Speaker 6: lot of people make. So it's it's it's about being
• 36:20
  Speaker 6: being being present in the moment too. So if you can,
• 36:23
  Speaker 6: if you can do that, and I encourage every single
• 36:25
  Speaker 6: screenwriter I know that that's still struggling to get to
• 36:29
  Speaker 6: get out there work on a set, whether it's in Pennsylvania,
• 36:33
  Speaker 6: it's in Columbus, Cleveland, La, get on a set and work.
• 36:36
  Speaker 6: You learn so much that that supports and helps your
• 36:42
  Speaker 6: craft by seeing what what the other parts of it
• 36:45
  Speaker 6: look about, what it feels like on that in turn
• 36:50
  Speaker 6: affects your work. It brings it brings a certain depth
• 36:55
  Speaker 6: and richness to it that you would not have had
• 36:58
  Speaker 6: other while.
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and and that that is a great example to James.
• 37:04
  Speaker 5: You know again, see you you actually worked hard. You know,
• 37:07
  Speaker 5: you you kept a great positive attitude. You didn't you know,
• 37:10
  Speaker 5: obviously you know, you knew what you were a professional
• 37:13
  Speaker 5: and see that's you know, that's one of the other
• 37:15
  Speaker 5: things that we were talking about too, is you know,
• 37:17
  Speaker 5: some of these screenwriters they don't like they don't network.
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: Maybe they just feel that, you know, they they shouldn't
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: have to network.
• 37:23
  Speaker 6: Uh.
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: And you know, to James, the number one question that
• 37:26
  Speaker 5: we that that a lot of screenwriters who've actually made
• 37:29
  Speaker 5: it get is how do I get an agent or
• 37:32
  Speaker 5: a manager? And I think, and I forget who once
• 37:36
  Speaker 5: told me this, but but their their response was you
• 37:39
  Speaker 5: don't want an agent or a manager to read your
• 37:42
  Speaker 5: stuff yet. And also getting an agent and manager is
• 37:45
  Speaker 5: not the golden ticket that that you've assumed that it is,
• 37:48
  Speaker 5: as you know, because because yeah, because because there's a
• 37:51
  Speaker 5: lot of hard work. There's other things that are that
• 37:53
  Speaker 5: are involved in this and it's not just as simple
• 37:55
  Speaker 5: as oh, well I have a manager now, you know.
• 37:58
  Speaker 5: It's it's funny to James, I mean, this is just
• 38:00
  Speaker 5: going back to the acting side of things. But here
• 38:03
  Speaker 5: in Philadelphia, probably about three or four, maybe five years ago,
• 38:06
  Speaker 5: there was this agent who came here. He had left
• 38:09
  Speaker 5: LA and he was going to set up a home
• 38:12
  Speaker 5: base here in Philadelphia, and he started sign he was
• 38:15
  Speaker 5: going to start a new agency and he was going
• 38:17
  Speaker 5: to sign a bunch of these actors to under him,
• 38:20
  Speaker 5: and every single like tons of people that I knew
• 38:23
  Speaker 5: were going to sign under this guy. And I'm sitting
• 38:25
  Speaker 5: there going the red flags are just going crazy about
• 38:29
  Speaker 5: this guy. Well, somebody showed me one of his contracts,
• 38:32
  Speaker 5: and basically it was like one of these evil, nefarious
• 38:36
  Speaker 5: contracts that you hear so much about where it says like,
• 38:38
  Speaker 5: you know, if you want to work on a student
• 38:41
  Speaker 5: film and has to have my permission and you can't
• 38:43
  Speaker 5: blah blah blah, and it's.
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: Like very very controlling.
• 38:47
  Speaker 5: So basically I think the end goal of what this
• 38:49
  Speaker 5: guy was trying to do was was he was going
• 38:51
  Speaker 5: to get all these actors and and basically if one
• 38:54
  Speaker 5: pay because they weren't, they weren't. Basically they weren't paying
• 38:57
  Speaker 5: him anything, but he would could. You know, at that time,
• 39:00
  Speaker 5: the Philadelphia area was a little hotter for film and
• 39:02
  Speaker 5: TV production, and I think he thought, hey, listen, if
• 39:05
  Speaker 5: they go out and they work on this lottery commercial,
• 39:07
  Speaker 5: they go work an m Night Shamalin's lex project, you know, hey,
• 39:10
  Speaker 5: that that's you know, five actors here, an actor here,
• 39:13
  Speaker 5: an actor over there. You know, he could start actually
• 39:15
  Speaker 5: earning some money as as their agent by getting that
• 39:19
  Speaker 5: that ten percent commission or what have you. But I
• 39:22
  Speaker 5: after like some people kind of confronting him about this,
• 39:25
  Speaker 5: he just blew out of town all over again, and
• 39:28
  Speaker 5: no idea where he ever landed. But it reminds me
• 39:31
  Speaker 5: of you know, and people are online on Facebook going,
• 39:34
  Speaker 5: oh my god, I can't believe I'm was signed with
• 39:36
  Speaker 5: that guy. I can't believe I almost blah blah, and
• 39:39
  Speaker 5: and you know, I'm sitting there going, see this is
• 39:41
  Speaker 5: what I mean. You know, just because you have an
• 39:42
  Speaker 5: agent as an actor or as a screenwriter, you know,
• 39:45
  Speaker 5: it doesn't mean that that silver bullet, golden ticket, you
• 39:48
  Speaker 5: know that's gonna get your career to that next level.
• 39:50
  Speaker 6: You're absolutely correct. I had my first agent a couple
• 39:56
  Speaker 6: of years ago.
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: and now back to the show.
• 40:08
  Speaker 6: It was. It was It was a nightmare. I mean,
• 40:10
  Speaker 6: there there's no other way around it. It was an
• 40:12
  Speaker 6: absolute nightmare. Uh. My writing partner at the time and
• 40:16
  Speaker 6: I we were we were done. Ho, I mean, we
• 40:19
  Speaker 6: were we were kicking out material left and right, ready
• 40:22
  Speaker 6: to go, and it was it lanted us absolutely nowhere.
• 40:26
  Speaker 6: And and the lesson learned that at that point was
• 40:30
  Speaker 6: just like if if they if they're really serious about you,
• 40:34
  Speaker 6: they will they will, they will come at you or
• 40:37
  Speaker 6: or as as in the case with my I have
• 40:39
  Speaker 6: a manager. Now I'm with UH agianta Purple Skull Management,
• 40:45
  Speaker 6: and she's great, she's amazing. But I got her through
• 40:49
  Speaker 6: a refeerral from another screenwriter who's already got a couple
• 40:55
  Speaker 6: of films made.
• 40:56
  Speaker 5: UH.
• 40:56
  Speaker 6: In fact, you had hers against Nicole Jones Dion and
• 41:01
  Speaker 6: Nicole is awesome. I consider her not only just a
• 41:04
  Speaker 6: frame but a mentor as well. But had it not
• 41:07
  Speaker 6: been for the referral, I wouldn't have my manager. So
• 41:10
  Speaker 6: a lot of times it isn't simply just the work
• 41:13
  Speaker 6: that's going to get you out there. I mean, look,
• 41:17
  Speaker 6: you could send you could send a thousand query letters
• 41:19
  Speaker 6: out to every major agency, every mid level even some
• 41:23
  Speaker 6: of the smaller guys that are out there right now,
• 41:26
  Speaker 6: and not get but one response that And the reason
• 41:30
  Speaker 6: is it's a little well, it's really simple, actually, I
• 41:33
  Speaker 6: take that back. The guys at the top aren't going
• 41:36
  Speaker 6: to talk to you unless you have something that's going
• 41:38
  Speaker 6: to make them money, because they have probably twenty to
• 41:42
  Speaker 6: thirty other clients that are doing stuff with Spielberg or
• 41:46
  Speaker 6: Ridley Scott or on network television, or they just got
• 41:50
  Speaker 6: staffed with Shonda Rhymes and that's their bread and butter.
• 41:56
  Speaker 6: So they're going to take care of their bread and
• 41:59
  Speaker 6: butter before they reach your query or they request your script.
• 42:03
  Speaker 6: And you have to understand this is this is what
• 42:05
  Speaker 6: was great about screenwriting you and learning the business side
• 42:08
  Speaker 6: of it, going in with the knowledge that if you
• 42:12
  Speaker 6: aren't properly prepared, their automatic response to you is no.
• 42:18
  Speaker 6: But if you know how to go in properly prepared,
• 42:21
  Speaker 6: you can circumvent that no. Even if that no doesn't
• 42:24
  Speaker 6: come until some point down the line, we read your script,
• 42:27
  Speaker 6: it's just not for us. You at least got them
• 42:29
  Speaker 6: to read you, at least got them to open a door,
• 42:31
  Speaker 6: and that open door itself could lead to a relationship,
• 42:34
  Speaker 6: and that relationship could lead to an assignment, it could
• 42:38
  Speaker 6: lead to a sale, but it will move the needle
• 42:40
  Speaker 6: forward on your career. I the biggest and and and
• 42:44
  Speaker 6: it goes back to you know to to screenwriters working
• 42:47
  Speaker 6: on on a on a on a film, on a
• 42:50
  Speaker 6: short or whatever. Get out there and get the experience,
• 42:52
  Speaker 6: because not only do you get the experience, you also
• 42:56
  Speaker 6: you also get the credibility, and so if you're able
• 42:59
  Speaker 6: to get that more so than the money, because a
• 43:02
  Speaker 6: lot of times you guys just come out and they
• 43:04
  Speaker 6: focus on the money. I need to get puid I
• 43:06
  Speaker 6: want to make this. How do you know, as a
• 43:08
  Speaker 6: first time screenwriter you're going to be able to make
• 43:12
  Speaker 6: thirty fifty one hundred thousand dollars on your first sale,
• 43:16
  Speaker 6: the first assignment job I ever did in my entire life.
• 43:19
  Speaker 6: I mean six hundred bucks on six hundred bucks for
• 43:23
  Speaker 6: a full fledged feature script, not a lot. I'm not
• 43:29
  Speaker 6: a member of the writer FUILDE or anything. So it's
• 43:31
  Speaker 6: just like why would I Why would I do that?
• 43:33
  Speaker 6: And it's like why would you? Why would you take
• 43:35
  Speaker 6: only six hundred dollars for your first script? Because if
• 43:38
  Speaker 6: this script gets made, guess what, it's a movie. I
• 43:43
  Speaker 6: now have a credit. But even if it doesn't, guess what,
• 43:46
  Speaker 6: I have a script that I've sold or I've optioned.
• 43:50
  Speaker 6: So you have to understand a lot of times it's
• 43:53
  Speaker 6: not about the money all the day. It's about It's
• 43:55
  Speaker 6: about the credibility that you can gain that when people
• 43:57
  Speaker 6: come and look and see what have you done? What
• 44:00
  Speaker 6: if you you know, what have you been able to accomplish?
• 44:02
  Speaker 6: This far was your career that puts you on the map.
• 44:05
  Speaker 6: So get the credibility before you try and get the cat.
• 44:08
  Speaker 6: And I know a lot of people are going to
• 44:09
  Speaker 6: be like, James is great, But James would not be
• 44:13
  Speaker 6: where he is today if he did not come to
• 44:16
  Speaker 6: terms and accept that set.
• 44:21
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and you know, I love that term moving the
• 44:24
  Speaker 5: needle of your career because you know that that's what
• 44:27
  Speaker 5: you know, we're all trying to do too, James, and
• 44:28
  Speaker 5: we're all trying to move that And I think, you know,
• 44:31
  Speaker 5: there's so much of what you just said because it
• 44:34
  Speaker 5: gets lost. You know, they they you know you you're
• 44:37
  Speaker 5: clearly a professional screenwriter. You you know what to talk
• 44:40
  Speaker 5: you're talking about. You've been in those meetings, you know,
• 44:42
  Speaker 5: you've worn all different types of hats. And you know,
• 44:45
  Speaker 5: I just saw something on your uh on a Facebook
• 44:48
  Speaker 5: post of yours where you got representation now with Purple
• 44:50
  Speaker 5: Skull Management. Yeah, Purple Skull Management, And I said, man,
• 44:54
  Speaker 5: I said again here's James again. He's always moving forward
• 44:58
  Speaker 5: with something else and I and I'm sitting here going, man,
• 45:01
  Speaker 5: this guy is always moving forward. So so Jims, you know,
• 45:05
  Speaker 5: how did you end up getting you know, with Purple
• 45:07
  Speaker 5: Purple Skull Entertainment Management?
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: You know how did you end up getting signed with them?
• 45:11
  Speaker 6: I want to say a couple of things that point then. Well,
• 45:13
  Speaker 6: one first and foremost, you know, I wouldn't have gotten there,
• 45:16
  Speaker 6: I don't think without the reprol that I got from
• 45:18
  Speaker 6: Nicole Joestia, So thanks you, Nicole. But two, you know,
• 45:22
  Speaker 6: outside of the referral, the work had to be there.
• 45:25
  Speaker 6: I had to be able to show them I'm a
• 45:29
  Speaker 6: great screenwriter. I can deliver solid, marketable material. And there's
• 45:35
  Speaker 6: there's the number of steps that I've learned through through screenlining.
• 45:39
  Speaker 6: You of what producers, uh even managers and agents are
• 45:43
  Speaker 6: looking for, uh in a script that will make them
• 45:47
  Speaker 6: let them know that this is a highly marketable project.
• 45:50
  Speaker 6: This is something that I can take out to whoever,
• 45:53
  Speaker 6: and and I've got a great chance of making a
• 45:56
  Speaker 6: sale with because at the end of the day, these
• 45:58
  Speaker 6: people are also again back to the business, are trying
• 46:01
  Speaker 6: to make money. But they but they also want the relationship.
• 46:04
  Speaker 6: So uh the script that I been in which uh
• 46:09
  Speaker 6: my my most recent thriller that I've written, whichman has
• 46:12
  Speaker 6: been requested now by about I want to say about
• 46:14
  Speaker 6: forty fifty different production companies I think over and you
• 46:20
  Speaker 6: loved it. We we then followed up with a couple
• 46:23
  Speaker 6: of emails and then actually had a meeting to kind
• 46:26
  Speaker 6: of discuss where where my career direction was in terms
• 46:30
  Speaker 6: of where I saw myself within within a year, five years,
• 46:34
  Speaker 6: and and really kind of self each other around us
• 46:37
  Speaker 6: to like, are we the kind of people who would
• 46:40
  Speaker 6: be very comfortable and excited working together And that was
• 46:45
  Speaker 6: the case, then let's definitely move forward because it can
• 46:47
  Speaker 6: be exciting for us, both and and I and I
• 46:51
  Speaker 6: I she she threw me the curve that I knew
• 46:54
  Speaker 6: was going to count. She asked me something about my
• 46:57
  Speaker 6: screenplay and it was to make a change. And she
• 47:02
  Speaker 6: sent me an email and she said, lichten, I love
• 47:04
  Speaker 6: love your you know, very strong writing, and YadA, YadA YadA.
• 47:07
  Speaker 6: But I thought that this didn't work. What if you
• 47:11
  Speaker 6: changed and did this this and then this? And I
• 47:15
  Speaker 6: got the email and I responded and I thanked her
• 47:18
  Speaker 6: for everything, and I said regarding your note, and I
• 47:20
  Speaker 6: thought that was absolutely amazing. I'm very eager to discuss
• 47:25
  Speaker 6: your thoughts on expanding what you suggested even further. The
• 47:30
  Speaker 6: first line in her email response back to that email
• 47:33
  Speaker 6: was simply this, I am so extremely excited that you
• 47:39
  Speaker 6: were welcome to these changes that to me, I think
• 47:43
  Speaker 6: it's what made the difference in terms of her mind that, Okay,
• 47:46
  Speaker 6: I'm dealing with someone that I know is going to
• 47:48
  Speaker 6: be a professional because because again a lot of times,
• 47:52
  Speaker 6: so many screenwriters kill their own careers and not just
• 47:57
  Speaker 6: not just wound or into and I say kill for
• 47:59
  Speaker 6: a specific reasons. Just like that young lady that you
• 48:02
  Speaker 6: described that flaked on you on your project. It doesn't
• 48:06
  Speaker 6: matter if it's a year from now, ten years from now,
• 48:09
  Speaker 6: or whatever. That's she's done, shit, done, and so and so.
• 48:15
  Speaker 6: To these production companies, even the small ones, when they're
• 48:18
  Speaker 6: looking for material, when they're looking for people that they
• 48:21
  Speaker 6: can work with, it's like, if you could have great
• 48:25
  Speaker 6: material but be a problem to work with, they don't
• 48:29
  Speaker 6: want to put up with that. Why would they? Why
• 48:32
  Speaker 6: would they go through the torture of working with someone
• 48:35
  Speaker 6: who's got a great script but allowed the attitude when
• 48:38
  Speaker 6: they can take someone with a okay script not quite there,
• 48:42
  Speaker 6: just needs a few things, but that person is really great.
• 48:45
  Speaker 6: Every time I talk to them, and every time that
• 48:47
  Speaker 6: we get together to have a meeting, I leave that
• 48:49
  Speaker 6: meeting feeling like, not only are they going to take
• 48:53
  Speaker 6: my suggestions, they excited about doing it absolutely because it's
• 48:58
  Speaker 6: about cultimate it's about cultivating relationships. And that producer that
• 49:03
  Speaker 6: you work with today could be Bloomhouse tomorrow.
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And and you know it's good.
• 49:10
  Speaker 5: Just go back to what we were talking about where
• 49:12
  Speaker 5: you know, we were talking about you know, we're looking
• 49:14
  Speaker 5: at things on both sides of the law of the coin,
• 49:16
  Speaker 5: so to speak, you know, working as you know, maybe
• 49:19
  Speaker 5: a producer, working on set as a screenwriter when you're
• 49:22
  Speaker 5: if you were a screenwriter. Like let's just say there's
• 49:25
  Speaker 5: a screenwriter out there right now listening to this, and
• 49:27
  Speaker 5: they don't have a very large network, and one of
• 49:30
  Speaker 5: the easiest ways is to actually just to go out
• 49:34
  Speaker 5: and reach people is to just go out and say, hey, listen,
• 49:36
  Speaker 5: I'm just trying to you know, get my foot in
• 49:38
  Speaker 5: the door of the film industry.
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: Can I come on and work as a PA?
• 49:41
  Speaker 5: Can I can I just come on and help in
• 49:43
  Speaker 5: some small way, and then you know, that'll get your
• 49:46
  Speaker 5: foot in the door. And you can see things on
• 49:48
  Speaker 5: the other side of the coin, because you know, when
• 49:51
  Speaker 5: I worked on people's said James, I would see things going, oh,
• 49:54
  Speaker 5: this is going to be a problem. I see this
• 49:56
  Speaker 5: is why. I see now why this is a problem.
• 49:58
  Speaker 5: You know, I see now why.
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: and now back to the show.
• 50:10
  Speaker 5: You know that that what you just said about having
• 50:12
  Speaker 5: a good attitude, right, you know, you can have all
• 50:14
  Speaker 5: the talent and talent in the world, and if you
• 50:16
  Speaker 5: have a shitty attitude, people don't want to work with
• 50:19
  Speaker 5: you because they just get they get burned out from
• 50:21
  Speaker 5: dealing with you, because like you know, let's just say, James,
• 50:24
  Speaker 5: that you're, you know, an exec. You're you're at the
• 50:26
  Speaker 5: an exec of maybe Warner Brothers or or or Fox
• 50:30
  Speaker 5: or a Fox search Light, and and you you see
• 50:32
  Speaker 5: on your list like, oh, I got another script by Dave.
• 50:35
  Speaker 5: He's a talented guy, but my god, every time he
• 50:38
  Speaker 5: comes in here, I just want to strangle him, you know.
• 50:40
  Speaker 4: I mean, you know what I mean.
• 50:41
  Speaker 5: It just it just burns people out having to deal
• 50:43
  Speaker 5: with that that type of attitude, you know. And I
• 50:46
  Speaker 5: think that's why when you if you do go into
• 50:48
  Speaker 5: a set and you see things from both sides of
• 50:50
  Speaker 5: that coin, I think some people have an epiphany. We're like, oh,
• 50:54
  Speaker 5: I see now I can't Actually I should be more
• 50:57
  Speaker 5: willing to work with people, and uh, you know, we
• 51:00
  Speaker 5: we're willing to sort of roll up my sleeves, get
• 51:03
  Speaker 5: this job done, and leave my ego at the door.
• 51:05
  Speaker 6: Good time, because at the end of the day, I mean,
• 51:08
  Speaker 6: and again, let's just look at it from a business
• 51:10
  Speaker 6: per aspect. Someone is willing to pay you a six
• 51:13
  Speaker 6: figure salary to write the screenplay that they're going to
• 51:17
  Speaker 6: turn into a movie. Do you think they want to
• 51:20
  Speaker 6: give you that money just blindly because they want to
• 51:24
  Speaker 6: take a chance, or are they doing it because you've
• 51:27
  Speaker 6: proven Number One, your credibility is intact in such a
• 51:33
  Speaker 6: way that it almost demands the cheer the person for this. Two,
• 51:37
  Speaker 6: you're a likable enough person that working with you and
• 51:41
  Speaker 6: making the changes whatever thing that need to be made
• 51:44
  Speaker 6: along the way, because there could be a thousand changes
• 51:46
  Speaker 6: that you'll make to descript before it actually goes into production,
• 51:50
  Speaker 6: you're going to be okay with that, and not only
• 51:52
  Speaker 6: be okay with that, be helpful in making them happen.
• 51:57
  Speaker 6: I think a lot of times screenwriters starting out, starting out,
• 52:02
  Speaker 6: I think that they're making my movie. No, no, they're
• 52:08
  Speaker 6: not making or her movie. You're helping them make their movie.
• 52:13
  Speaker 6: They're paying for it. Again, it's a business. You You
• 52:17
  Speaker 6: are a vendor bringing providing a product that someone needs
• 52:22
  Speaker 6: the business. So you don't go to McDonald's and order
• 52:29
  Speaker 6: French fries and the guy behind us like, well, I
• 52:32
  Speaker 6: don't want I don't feel like serving fries there. I'm
• 52:34
  Speaker 6: just don't. I'm you know, I'm the onion ring guy,
• 52:36
  Speaker 6: So I mean you used to try my onion rings. Well,
• 52:39
  Speaker 6: I don't want onion rates. I'm looking for French fries.
• 52:41
  Speaker 6: That's what the producers are saying to you. Look, you
• 52:43
  Speaker 6: know this is good, but this is what we're looking for.
• 52:46
  Speaker 6: Can you can you get can you give me this?
• 52:48
  Speaker 6: If you can, great and if you can do it
• 52:50
  Speaker 6: with a great attitude, even better, Because at some point
• 52:55
  Speaker 6: along the way, if there's another project, if there's if
• 52:58
  Speaker 6: there's something else that they need, and they goes you
• 53:01
  Speaker 6: know what, you know, the my boss wants abouts to
• 53:04
  Speaker 6: use this stuff that I over here. But you know,
• 53:06
  Speaker 6: he's kind of a pain to work with. But hey,
• 53:08
  Speaker 6: you know what, I'm gonna slip your name into the mix,
• 53:11
  Speaker 6: and I want to see if we can get you
• 53:13
  Speaker 6: in because you know great attitude. You know, let my
• 53:15
  Speaker 6: boss know your reason to work with and we had
• 53:18
  Speaker 6: a lot of fun and you deliver quality work. Be
• 53:21
  Speaker 6: that person more often than the other guy. I mean,
• 53:25
  Speaker 6: don't don't do not, do not ever go in believing
• 53:30
  Speaker 6: that because you wrote the script, that this is your project.
• 53:36
  Speaker 6: The moment that you're taking to market. You were saying,
• 53:38
  Speaker 6: I am offering my child shirt there. So stop looking
• 53:41
  Speaker 6: at your stop looking at your scripts as your children.
• 53:44
  Speaker 6: They're your work. They are the tools that help you
• 53:48
  Speaker 6: elevate you to where you want to be in your career.
• 53:51
  Speaker 6: Now I get it. I mean, ultimately, I want to
• 53:55
  Speaker 6: be the next Dick Wolf or Shonda Rhymes. I want
• 53:57
  Speaker 6: to be able to write what I mean I want to.
• 53:59
  Speaker 6: I love Shonda Rhymes because of their long monologue that
• 54:01
  Speaker 6: her characters get. I would love to be able to
• 54:03
  Speaker 6: get away with that. But I can't get away with
• 54:05
  Speaker 6: that now. There is there is no producer. What they're
• 54:08
  Speaker 6: gonna look at it and go, WHOA, that's a whole
• 54:10
  Speaker 6: lot of good look call along that dialogue. No, absolutely not.
• 54:15
  Speaker 6: But if I build the credibility there, if I if
• 54:19
  Speaker 6: I do the right things in terms of recognizing this
• 54:22
  Speaker 6: is a business. These people are spending hundreds of thousands
• 54:25
  Speaker 6: of dollars that I don't have in order to make
• 54:28
  Speaker 6: this project. So what if they want to make changes?
• 54:32
  Speaker 6: So what if if they want to turn this character
• 54:35
  Speaker 6: into this kind of character. Okay, at the end of
• 54:38
  Speaker 6: the day, I might be sitting back going in my head,
• 54:42
  Speaker 6: but when they're looking at me in the face and
• 54:44
  Speaker 6: what we're putting on the page, what changes do you need?
• 54:47
  Speaker 6: It isn't it isn't a fight. It is it is
• 54:50
  Speaker 6: a way to move the needle forward. And at the
• 54:54
  Speaker 6: end of the day, anything that that contradicts that is
• 54:58
  Speaker 6: killing your career, not harming it. It's killing your career.
• 55:03
  Speaker 6: And and oh man, uh, if if there's any any
• 55:07
  Speaker 6: screenwriter who's who's really serious about trying to move to
• 55:11
  Speaker 6: the next level, grasp and then brace that fact they
• 55:15
  Speaker 6: are going to change your work. It's it's it's a given.
• 55:19
  Speaker 6: It is an absolute given, except that the work is
• 55:23
  Speaker 6: going to get made. You're going to get paid hopefully,
• 55:28
  Speaker 6: and and that it's going to it's going to raise
• 55:31
  Speaker 6: your credibility. And the more often that happens, the more
• 55:35
  Speaker 6: often you'll you'll get a chance to get it paid.
• 55:36
  Speaker 6: But starting out, understand that that's the way, that's the
• 55:40
  Speaker 6: way that it simply works. It's it's just it's just
• 55:44
  Speaker 6: part of the process. But don't let that be a negative.
• 55:47
  Speaker 6: Let that be the thing that helps you move forward,
• 55:50
  Speaker 6: because that that alone will separate you from seventy five
• 55:53
  Speaker 6: percent of the other screenwriters that are out there shaking
• 55:56
  Speaker 6: their heads, going there's absolutely no I am going to change.
• 56:02
  Speaker 5: It's almost like there are a character in their own movie, James,
• 56:05
  Speaker 5: Like they won't change, Like there's no there's no character.
• 56:10
  Speaker 6: They're no protagonists. It's like you haven't gotten to amit
• 56:12
  Speaker 6: point in your life. Oh it's but but the good thing,
• 56:19
  Speaker 6: the good news is this follow up. I would tell you.
• 56:25
  Speaker 6: The other thing I would tell inspiring screenwriters is it
• 56:28
  Speaker 6: follow other screenwriters on on on social media, on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn,
• 56:36
  Speaker 6: See what they're saying, see what they're talking about. Because
• 56:39
  Speaker 6: here's the difference that that I've come to come to
• 56:42
  Speaker 6: ascertaining from the guys that want to be screenwriters and
• 56:46
  Speaker 6: the guys who are the guys who are want to
• 56:49
  Speaker 6: be screenwriters. When you look at their Facebook page and whatnot,
• 56:53
  Speaker 6: they're talking about everything other than screenwriter. You know, they
• 56:57
  Speaker 6: might be talking about politics, be talking about the weather,
• 57:03
  Speaker 6: they might be talking about you know, throwing out some
• 57:06
  Speaker 6: funny which is which is all good. I mean, you
• 57:08
  Speaker 6: know that's your personality. God bless and rock on. But
• 57:11
  Speaker 6: but how much did they actually stand about the craft?
• 57:15
  Speaker 6: How much did they actually you know, you know, I
• 57:18
  Speaker 6: had I had a young lady who who hit me
• 57:21
  Speaker 6: up one day and she was like, I really need
• 57:23
  Speaker 6: your advice about screenwriting. And and I was kind of
• 57:26
  Speaker 6: taking them back at first because I'm like, hey, you know,
• 57:27
  Speaker 6: I'm just out here struggling like everybody else. You know,
• 57:30
  Speaker 6: you know, who am I to be giving you advice?
• 57:31
  Speaker 6: Just says No. I've been following your page. I see
• 57:34
  Speaker 6: all the stuff that you're posting. I see what you're
• 57:36
  Speaker 6: commenting about about the industry. You're very knowledgeable about what's
• 57:40
  Speaker 6: going on, and I think you can help me. And
• 57:43
  Speaker 6: and I was just like, WHOA, So people are paying
• 57:46
  Speaker 6: attention to you in no other in no other medium.
• 57:51
  Speaker 6: Do you have the opportunity and ability to control the
• 57:56
  Speaker 6: narrative about you? Think of the power that that gives you.
• 58:03
  Speaker 6: How do I present myself at the credible screenwriter? If
• 58:07
  Speaker 6: I'm just starting out, Well, maybe I'm following Dave Bullis's contest.
• 58:12
  Speaker 6: When I'll see something that really strikes a court with me,
• 58:14
  Speaker 6: I post it on my wall. Maybe I'm following in
• 58:17
  Speaker 6: to or or screenwriting you or any of the other
• 58:21
  Speaker 6: different places or different people. I might playing a couple
• 58:23
  Speaker 6: of screenwriters and repost some of their stuff, and and
• 58:28
  Speaker 6: on and on and on, because people are looking and
• 58:31
  Speaker 6: they say, go, Wow, what's this? What's this guy all about? Well,
• 58:34
  Speaker 6: he posts a lot of stuff about screenwriting, about about television,
• 58:37
  Speaker 6: about film. He must know something about the business. He
• 58:42
  Speaker 6: must be some kind of a extert if you will.
• 58:47
  Speaker 6: But it establishes who you are. It establishes who you are.
• 58:53
  Speaker 6: If you go out and ask anybody today, who's who's
• 58:55
  Speaker 6: seen you know me? On Facebook? One are the two
• 58:58
  Speaker 6: things you and you can answer this thing. One of
• 59:00
  Speaker 6: the two things that people know me for.
• 59:03
  Speaker 4: Scream writing and pan caaastic.
• 59:08
  Speaker 6: That's it. But they, but they, But anyone who asks
• 59:11
  Speaker 6: you It's like, Hey, Dave, if I were to ask you,
• 59:15
  Speaker 6: who would who would you recommend that I talked to
• 59:18
  Speaker 6: about about the the best pancakes in town?
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: Oh, I already know who. I said.
• 59:25
  Speaker 5: You got to talk to my buddy James Moore, and
• 59:27
  Speaker 5: he's gonna know, he's gonna know who makes the best
• 59:29
  Speaker 5: pancakes in town because it's him that's who makes the
• 59:31
  Speaker 5: best pancakes in town.
• 59:32
  Speaker 6: Exactly. So why would I also not want to be
• 59:35
  Speaker 6: that same person when it comes to screenwriting. I establish
• 59:42
  Speaker 6: my own credibility by by directing and controlling the narratives,
• 59:48
  Speaker 6: and and and again I'm not telling people. Look, if
• 59:51
  Speaker 6: you're passionate about kittens or puppies or or or an
• 59:54
  Speaker 6: injustice or what has to happen, absolutely raise your voice.
• 59:58
  Speaker 6: I'm kind of myself.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: and now back to the show.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 6: But overall, what is it that you're saying about about
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 6: about your stuff in the industry? Essentially in this industry,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 6: just so like people say, hey, you know coming about
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 6: Dabels so dable. It's a screenwriter, he's an actor, he's
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 6: a great amazing podcast. You should check him out. I can.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 6: It's almost like I'm giving you, giving a log line
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 6: on you. This is this is who he is, this
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 6: is what he does, this is why he's correct and man,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 6: and and now go now go and find her. So
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 6: you are your you're your own story.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think that is so it's poetic, James,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 5: It really is, because you know, when people do go
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 5: out to find you know, whoever, you know we might
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 5: be talking about, we talked. We both know Nicole Jones Dion.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 5: If they go out to find her, you know, she's
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 5: all over social media. Oh you're all over social media,
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 5: and you know, and same with me. And you know
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 5: when when I do follow other screenwriters on like Twitter,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 5: for instance, because Twitter is my thing, you know, I
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 5: follow the screenwriters and sometimes all they do is they
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 5: post stuff about nonsensical stuff. And I'm sitting here going,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 5: you know, I thought, you know, I thought they're posting
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 5: more stuff about maybe the craft or more stuff about
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 5: wry Hey, listen, everybody, here's my friend's movie. Why don't
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 5: we go check this out. He's a you know, he
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 5: or she's a great person. They're a great filmmaker. Let's
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 5: do this thing.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 4: But it's like almost like It's almost.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 5: That they just use social media as almost like an afterthought.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 5: And at that point, I'm figuring, why even bother anyway?
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 5: You don't even need it, you know, I don't just
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 5: take that down and and just you know, do nothing
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 5: and just sort of go back to where you're just
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 5: a screenwriter as sort of writing screenplays and always saying,
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 5: you know, how do I get my name out there?
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 4: Well, he had the opportunity with social media.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 5: You didn't need an agent or a manager to do that,
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 5: because anybody can start a Twitter account or a YouTube channel,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 5: or a Facebook page or what have you, and you
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 5: can get known that way.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 6: I mean, I've even had I can't, can't. I won't
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 6: say his name. Uh. A known actor, a well known
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 6: television actor who is also a Facebook friend of mine.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 6: I commented on on on the post that he made. Uh.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 6: He saw he saw my comment, liked it, saw that
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 6: I was a screenwriter, emailed me and wrote me, It's like, hey,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 6: what are you working on? I'd love to read it.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 6: He now has my script. Didn't need a manager, didn't
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 6: need an agent. All I needed to do was present
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 6: myself that James Moore, screenwriter and pancake level because we
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 6: always set up with the pancakes.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 5: You know, James, one day I want to meet you
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 5: in person, and if we don't have pancakes, it's going
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 5: to be the biggest litter.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 6: It will be a cry, it will be a crime.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 6: And let me and let me tell you honestly, God's truth.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 6: I have seriously researched god awful so many pancakes in
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 6: the LA area. I know the spots. I don't don't
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 6: listen to anyone else. When you come to town, I
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 6: take you out for pancakes. I will take you to
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 6: some of the greatest pancake places in the world in
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 6: my opinion, and we will just throw it down just
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 6: to make sure that there's a couch somewhere afterwards, and
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 6: we will be napping after the bat.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 5: You post somebody, awe some pictures of these pancakes online
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 5: and I'm like, I'm look, my god, they look perfect.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 5: It looks like James literally got a food stylist and
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 5: like a pro level cinematographer, like he's got Roger Deakins
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 5: with them, and they're just like photographing these pancakes. But
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 5: I'm just like, they just look so perfect on the plate,
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 5: the lighting is perfect, and I'm like, man, James really
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 5: knows his stuff about pancakes.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 4: I mean, he is like the pancake Master.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 6: It is a finally well home crafted art that I
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 6: have definitely years and years of developing. Well probably only
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 6: about six or seven, but.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 5: Still, again, I do want to meet you in person someday, James,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 5: because I know we've been friends on Facebook for a
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 5: law long long time and I met you through screenwriting you,
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 5: and again I would do want to definitely get Brad
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 5: pancakes and Yo Javn. We've been talking for about, you know,
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 5: an hour now, so you know, just in closing, I
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 5: just want to ask one final question, and that is
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 5: is there anything that we didn't get to talk about
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 5: that you wanted to discuss or is there anything you
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 5: want to say that to sort of put a period
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 5: at the end of this whole conversation.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 6: Two grades and and and first, first and foremost, thank
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 6: you for for having me on at the guests Uh
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 6: you You and your podcasts are absolutely amazing. Every screenwriter
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 6: that's trying to get to the next level should be
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 6: listening in and checking in to hearing what other people
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 6: are doing, because it's it's not a competition. Guys, it's
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 6: the community. And and if you if you realize that
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 6: you're you're gonna go oh oh so far with this.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 6: A couple of people I wanted to send a shout
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 6: out to because as I'm moving forward, I also I
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 6: never want to forget to take a moment to say, uh,
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 6: some of the people who've been excessional in helping me
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 6: stay on on track and stay positive about a lot
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 6: of the stuff that I'm doing. I already mentioned Nicole
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 6: and and Kimbrou Heather Hale, who is also one of
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 6: my managers from UH Mentors from early early on, Jillie.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 6: Jillie loved this woman. She She's just been really really
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 6: uh an extraordinary human being who's who's offered me so
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 6: many different opportunities that she didn't have to do, and
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 6: she did them out of the kindness of her hearts
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 6: and did not charge me a guy. And and I
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 6: am eternally grateful for that. My my my home crew,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 6: James Lee nas And Jordan Margolis, Raven Crocs That Canada, Canada, Russell,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 6: Kanya Harris, Uh, I know I'm forgetting somebody, oh, Chris,
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 6: Christopher Lee Lopez and and and all of all of
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 6: my my sandbox family. Uh, you guys know who you are.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 6: I am exceptionally thankful for for just knowing you as
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 6: human beings and for the effect and impact that you
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 6: had on my career thus far. And I and I
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 6: know that there's there's so much more and of course
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 6: my screenwriting you family, everyone from from Dave to Tom
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 6: to Hal and Cheryl Crosman. Uh, everybody in in in
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 6: p s A forty nine, everybody in m S D five,
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 6: We rocked the house. You guys are you guys are
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 6: just absolutely incredible. But to all of the all of
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 6: the aspiring screenwriters out there who who are looking to
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 6: to to get to where I am, and beyond where
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 6: to where Dave is and beyond, there are three simple
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 6: things about what would would impress upon you to earnestly do.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 6: The first one is this read as mini screenplace as
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 6: you can. There. There are hundreds of resources right now.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 6: I mean, you guys have an advantage that I didn't
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 6: have a decade ago in terms of getting your hands
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 6: on good quality scripts that you can read and learn from.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 6: Number two, write every single day, even if it's not
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 6: a script. If you write a note to yourself if
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 6: you write something that's just meaningful that no one else
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 6: in the world will see but you writes. And this
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 6: the last thing is most important because it will truly
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 6: affect your career. Networking isn't something. It isn't what it
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 6: sells like. It isn't just going out doing a whole
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 6: lot of meet and greet and extinking business cards. It's
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 6: actually your first step in learning how to build relationships.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 6: Because relationships in this business are what's key. And if
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 6: you can develop relationships with people who who are at
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 6: your level, above your level, and some even who you
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 6: know who maybe you know not even as the advances
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 6: where you are right now, if you can make the relationships,
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 6: those relationships are like planting seas in a garden, and
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 6: if you nurture them properly, they will Kay offer you
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 6: stop chasing agents, managers and money. Chase the opportunity to
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 6: develop and cultivate great relationships and create great content, and
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 6: you will have the screenwriting career of your dreams. I
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 6: swear to God you will.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 4: And that is a fantastic way to put up here.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 5: At the end of this conversation, James, I knew you
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 5: were going to have something so poetic and prolific, and
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 5: he didn't disappoint. And this has been a phenomenal, phenomenal
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 5: conversation with you, James again, You're somebody I wanted to
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 5: have on here for a very long time. I always
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 5: see you're moving forward, always see you're doing all these
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 5: amazing things. Always have another iron in that fire. And
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 5: you know, we talked a lot about social media too,
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 5: So James, where can people find you at on social media?
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 6: So you can find me on Facebook and James more
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 6: on Facebook. You can also find me on Twitter, on LinkedIn,
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 6: same James war Very soon you'll be able to find
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 6: me probably in about another month or two at jamesmore
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 6: dot com. I do have a self help book that's
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 6: going to be coming out that's going to be available
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 6: on Amazon called The Epics. So those of you who
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 6: have been following my go be epic posts, we got
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 6: a workbook for you, dude, to kind of help you
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 6: take it to the next level. And of course, my
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 6: my my thriller novel to Clippine, The Nati Gideon Industry,
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 6: is also available on Amazon.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 4: Thank you so much for coming on, sir, my.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 6: Pleasure, sir. I'm glad to be on board and continue
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 6: success to you, Dave.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 4: Sam to you, James.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 5: I know I don't even have to say it because
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 5: I know that you're always going to have success, James,
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 5: but I'm still gonna wish if to see anyway, because
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 5: I mean, again, you're always doing something really cool. And
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 5: uh and James again, thank you so much, my friend.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 4: And let's talk very soon.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 6: We shall, sir, and then the rest of you guys
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 6: go be epic.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: a great job on this episode. If you want to
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: get links anything we spoke about in this episode, head
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: over to the show notes at Indie film huscle dot
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: com Forward slash eight twenty three, and if you have
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: it already, please head over to Filmmaking podcast dot com.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: Subscribe and leave a good review.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 6: For the show.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: It really helps us out a lot.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 6: Guys.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: Thank you again so much for listening to guys as always.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 3: Keep that hustle going, keep that dream alive, stay safe
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 3: out there, and I'll talk to you soon.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: Indie film hustle dot com. That's I N D I
• 1:10:30
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• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: E dot com,