Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / NT Police Acting Commissioner Michael Murphy says work is being done to provide more support for serving members following another suicide of a serving officer

Transcript

NT Police Acting Commissioner Michael Murphy says work is being done to provide more support for serving members following another suicide of a serving officer · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: But we know that throughout the week we've spoken a
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: lot about the situation with a veteran police officer who
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: was suspended for publicly criticizing how his commissioners had treated
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Constable Zachary Rolf over the fatal shooting of Kumen Jay Walker.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Now joining me in the studio this morning to talk
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  Speaker 1: about this and plenty of other issues is the Acting
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  Speaker 1: Police Commissioner, Michael Murphy.
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  Speaker 2: Good morning to you.
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: Good morning Katy.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Now Acting Commissioner.
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  Speaker 1: We know that the Australian newspaper reported earlier this week
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  Speaker 1: that Sergeant Mark Casey, who served for the Northern Territory
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Police for twenty five years, has said that he was
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: devastated and terrified after being suspended without pay on Saturday
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: for alleged serious breaches of discipline related to his personal
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: behavior and public views. Now, the suspension obviously follows that
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: opinion piece which was written by the officer in which
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: he said that he had concerns relating to the authoritarian
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: management as a whole within the force and specifically in
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: relation to the charging of Constable Zachary Rolf. Why has
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: he been suspended without pay?
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: So we adhere to a code of conduct and Mark
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: is a season and respected police officer. He knows the
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  Speaker 3: Code of Conduct well and I think he realized he
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: was probably speaking outside of the code of conduct, and
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: as police officers were accountable for what we say and
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  Speaker 3: what we do, highly accountable to the public, highly accountable
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  Speaker 3: to the chain of command, including up to the office
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  Speaker 3: of Commissioner. Mark was served with a notice for an
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  Speaker 3: explanation about why he conduct himself in that way and
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: breached the code of conduct. That process is still underway.
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  Speaker 3: He was suspended without pay. We've had some correspondence from
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  Speaker 3: the Northern Territory Police Association and we've also had a
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  Speaker 3: letter written to me from his sister outlining some other
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: factors that need to be considered. So we're currently considering
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: them and it does blend into the well being aspects
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: of our officers as well.
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  Speaker 1: Now, I guess before I get to that, some are
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  Speaker 1: questioning the hypocrisy. What they say is hypocrisy of the
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: suspension when there have been officers charged with criminal offenses
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: who have continued to be.
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  Speaker 2: Paid while stood down.
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  Speaker 1: What does make this situation different when some would consider
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: it more serious when somebody is charged with the criminal offense.
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  Speaker 3: And that's it's a good point, and it's a consideration
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  Speaker 3: by the delegated officer who has that authority to suspend
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: with or without pay, which is at the level of
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  Speaker 3: deputy commissioner. They're presented with the facts and the circumstances
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  Speaker 3: of the case and what needs to be explained, and
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  Speaker 3: on this occasion that decision was made to suspend without
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: pay and then allowing the seven days for natural justice
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  Speaker 3: and fairness for a response. But you're right, we probably
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: need to look at consistency about when we suspend and
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: without pay. And there are some things that I'm quite
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: comfortable suspending people that pay. If an officer commits a
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: sexual offense against a colleague, or there's racist kind of conduct,
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: the more serious offending in the workplace where we need
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: a safe environment, I've no hesitation in a suspension without
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: pay on that regard.
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  Speaker 1: Look, I know that I do know that a lot
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  Speaker 1: of police officers listen to this show, and I know
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  Speaker 1: that some of them will be thinking to themselves this morning.
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  Speaker 1: He's actually written about something that a lot of us
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  Speaker 1: are concerned with right now. And I understand that there's
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  Speaker 1: a code of conduct. I understand that certainly you know.
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  Speaker 1: I know, I used to work in the police media
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  Speaker 1: unit that you know that you don't want a situation
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  Speaker 1: where everybody's going rogue and going to the media telling
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: them whatever they want at different times. But you know,
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  Speaker 1: but some will be listening thinking he's sort of stood
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  Speaker 1: up and said something that we're all really worried about
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: at the moment.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so that you're right. It is a
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  Speaker 3: commander control hierarchical structure where disciplines paramount to meet our functions.
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  Speaker 3: You're right, we can't have rogue elements. But there's also
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: opportunities for officers, including Mark, and he's been around a
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: long time and knows how it operates, is to speak
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: to me, to speak to his superintendent. He's seeing this
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: sergeant to outline his concerns. And I think there's mechanisms
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: in play internally where people and it has to be courageous.
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  Speaker 3: I offer people to talk to me. People don't really
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  Speaker 3: want to come and talk to the boss all the time.
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  Speaker 3: But we've got lots of officers. I've got four assistant commissioners,
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  Speaker 3: eight commanders, thirty superintendents, sixty three senior sergeants, one hundred
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  Speaker 3: and fifty sergeants who are there to support all our
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: officers across the front line.
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  Speaker 1: Is there a worry though, amongst the force at the
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  Speaker 1: moment that if they do come forward and they do
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  Speaker 1: actually really voice those concerns in a really open and
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  Speaker 1: honest way, they're going to wind up in the same situation.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I think we need to be honest. I think
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  Speaker 3: it's about having the courage to speak what you think.
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  Speaker 3: So we have an understanding of the workforce. We talk
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  Speaker 3: about the low morale, the management versus the workers. That's
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  Speaker 3: got to stop, and it all blends into the well
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  Speaker 3: being of the workforce as well.
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  Speaker 2: Because how do you do that?
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  Speaker 1: You know, Like, if we've got a situation at the
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  Speaker 1: moment where where you have got some within the force
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  Speaker 1: who who feel you know, who are feeling a bit
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  Speaker 1: lost to feeling as though they don't have the support
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  Speaker 1: of management, how do you know you bring everybody back
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  Speaker 1: together again.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I think what I can say is I support
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  Speaker 3: the two and a half thousand people in the Northern
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  Speaker 3: Turgy Police fig Emergency Services one hundred percent. Obviously, there
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: are positions where people might carry out misconduct or make
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: poor decisions in life and commit criminal offending. That's a
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  Speaker 3: different story where they become accountable and possibly it might
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: be dismissal. But people need to know they can trust us,
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  Speaker 3: the commissioner, the deputy commissioners, the assistant commissioners, their executive
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  Speaker 3: contract officers. And it's about the place of safety here
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  Speaker 3: because what we see now and previously is reactive approach
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  Speaker 3: to mental health. Well we need to be is proactive
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  Speaker 3: and people need a place of safety and confidence they
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  Speaker 3: can raise any issues in their line supervisors to sort
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  Speaker 3: something out, because we can't wait till it's too late
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  Speaker 3: and they have a burden and a sense of hopelessness
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  Speaker 3: and they feel lost and they're no longer going to
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  Speaker 3: be an effective police officer, officer, a man she saves
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: upbratar or a civilian employment.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and look, we know that that is a concern
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  Speaker 1: at the moment. I will I'll get to that in
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  Speaker 1: just a moment, particularly with the issue of suicide. But
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  Speaker 1: I do want to just ask you very quickly. I
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  Speaker 1: understand that there are three police regions who have apparently
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: now voted for the Northern Territory Police Association to hold
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  Speaker 1: a territory wide vote of no confidence in the police
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  Speaker 1: Commissioner Jamie Chalker and Deputy Commissioner Murray small Page. Are
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: you concerned that the force is losing that confidence in management?
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  Speaker 3: No, not at all. I think there's a small faction
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  Speaker 3: who are agitating, and I've said it before, it's a distraction.
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  Speaker 3: It's a distraction from the majority of our hard working
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  Speaker 3: police officers who come to work with purpose every day
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  Speaker 3: to protect territorians and do the right thing and uphold
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  Speaker 3: their oath of office.
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  Speaker 1: Now, we do know that there has been real concerns
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  Speaker 1: raised this week, obviously about mental healthy You've touched on
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  Speaker 1: it already this morning, but certainly following on from the
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: tragic death of a former police officer now a highly
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  Speaker 1: respected and much loved officer who'd taken his life. This
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  Speaker 1: is such a serious issue and we don't talk about
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  Speaker 1: suicide lightly on this show. Certainly, if you're out there
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  Speaker 1: listening this morning, and you will someone you know is.
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  Speaker 2: Suffering, there are people who you can call.
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  Speaker 1: Certainly get in contact with lifeline. The concern that has
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: been raised is that it is the third person in
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  Speaker 1: three months.
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  Speaker 2: Is there enough being done in this space?
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  Speaker 3: Well, we lost justin Tremor to suicide. We've lost Michael
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  Speaker 3: Dutram to suicide and our thoughts are with his family today.
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  Speaker 3: His funerals currently taking place right now in Adelaide. Our
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  Speaker 3: thoughts are with a retired senior Sergeant Gary Smith and
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: his sister Deb and his children and his previous families
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  Speaker 3: as well, because they are absolutely devastating. I served with
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  Speaker 3: Gary in the Central Desert. Great fella, tough bugger, but
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  Speaker 3: he said it himself, the tough is the facade you
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: need to reach out for help. I think that the
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  Speaker 3: policing environments changed considerably. Where decades ago is you and
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  Speaker 3: have a couple of beers and get over it, right.
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  Speaker 3: It's not the case these days because the Beyond Blue
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  Speaker 3: survey tells us that there's more retired officers suffering in
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  Speaker 3: the PTSD space than serving officers. Like it's a one
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  Speaker 3: to four compared to a one to ten comparison nationally,
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  Speaker 3: which is very concerning. So we've just undertaken a review
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  Speaker 3: into the mental health and will be and the support services.
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  Speaker 3: Like I said, it's about adopting a model that's based
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  Speaker 3: similar to Tasmania as well. They've got obviously a police,
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  Speaker 3: fire and emergency services with forensic capability similar comparative numbers.
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  Speaker 3: So we've looked at the Tasmanian model, which is quite
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  Speaker 3: a good model, ligning with the Beyond Blue report as
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  Speaker 3: well and consolidating that so we have an end to
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  Speaker 3: end basically support service for recruitment going through recruitment, understanding
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  Speaker 3: what they're seeing and feeling as they do their training,
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  Speaker 3: the continued focus proactively in the field with debriefs, access
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  Speaker 3: to services, breaking the stigma of fear and shame attached
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  Speaker 3: to it's okay not to be okay?
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  Speaker 1: Is there a situation where there needs to be more
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  Speaker 1: support as well once an officer has left the force,
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  Speaker 1: So maybe not just for a six month period, but
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  Speaker 1: for longer.
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  Speaker 3: Absolutely so, when a retired police officer leaves, there's still
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  Speaker 3: a strong identity as a police officer. I've visited officers
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  Speaker 3: who have passed away in palliative care who have left
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  Speaker 3: the police force decades ago, who are still cops. Yep, right,
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  Speaker 3: there's still cops. They've still got the badge on their arm.
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  Speaker 3: Transitioning from a police force that is very difficult and
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  Speaker 3: challenging mentally and physically to a life of what's supposed
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  Speaker 3: to be ordinary. But all the things you've seen that challenge.
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  Speaker 3: Your very fabric of fundamental understanding of human nature is difficult.
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  Speaker 3: Services and the transitioning need to be provided five to
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  Speaker 3: ten years past leaving a police service. Even we're seeing
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  Speaker 3: that even as a ten year serving officer there's significant
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  Speaker 3: distressed and psychosocial issues attached to it.
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  Speaker 2: So is that something that's being looked at.
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  Speaker 1: Is it something that obviously funding needs to be provided
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: for though, So.
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  Speaker 3: What we're going to do is it's going to be
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  Speaker 3: an incremental change to provide better and enhance services to
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: the workforce and into retirement. There's a body of work
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  Speaker 3: being done at the comwealth level too, more so on
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: the back of the bushfires and all the emergency response
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: and humanitarian response we've seen by a number of emergency
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: services first responders but even the Australian Defense Force. So
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: we are doing some work. We're taking this very seriously.
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  Speaker 3: The three suicides have impacted the workforce significantly. It's impacting
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: a lot of people. It's time to act now.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Look, I do want to ask you before I let
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: you go this morning, just to cut quick ones. But
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: I know that they are ones that a lot of
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: our listeners are going to care quite a lot about.
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  Speaker 1: One of the issues that we've spoken about a lot
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: on this show. You and I have discussed it in
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: recent weeks as well, is the number of people that
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: we're seeing around Darwin in from community and some of
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: the you know, the on flow of that that public
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: drunkenness that we're seeing. A few weeks ago you had
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: told us there was around two thousand people in town.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: Are we still at those record numbers?
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  Speaker 3: Actually higher, so we're saying just probably under three thousand
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: people across April, so it's gone up. So what we're
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: seeing is displacement from what air as well. Obviously there's
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: been some property damage and fighting. I'm saying the death
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: of the thirty two year old man out there that's
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: caused significant displacement. We're talking about thirty seven to fifty
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  Speaker 3: houses that are uninhabitable now that need work and that's
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: going to take time. So I've seen displacement within community
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: and we've seen displacement into Darwin as well. So we've
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: seen about three thousand people. Lari Kia our police office
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: are working very hard to address the any social behavior.
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: We're seeing about three hundred and sixty five people uptake
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: return to country, but that's consensual. Obviously, we're seeing still
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: high numbers going through the sabering upshorter around twelve hundred
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: a month. We're seeing about one hundred people coming into
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: protective custody in the police cells. So it's still very
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: busy and it's not isolated to go and with the
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: same urban areas Catherine TenneT Creek and Alice Springs are
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: seeing the same things.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: And I mean, this is so tough. There's a lot, like,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: there's a lot to take in on that. Firstly, with
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: the number of people that are here, up to three
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: thousand people here now.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: More than what it had been earlier in the year.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: And you've pointed out a number of different reasons for that,
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  Speaker 1: and I'll go to what air in just a second,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: But how tough is that making it then for the
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: police trying to do trying to do your jobs and
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: trying to deal with you know, with the day to
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: day crime and issues that we see around the place.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: But then with an extra three thousand people in town
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: who are sleeping rough who are unfortunately you know, maybe
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: in some cases engaging in consuming alcohol and you know,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: in some cases we're seeing criminal behavior.
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: So you probably safely say, a majority of them aren't
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: committing any crimes. A minority do drink to excess and
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: either become a vulnerable person and a victim of crime
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: or an offender, usually domestic violence or some street offense.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: So we are seeing a massive impost on our offices
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: on the front line, which does you know it balances
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: our resources against other priority jobs like car crashes and
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: tending domestic violence in the home and other emergencies. So
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: call center is quite busy. There's about a twenty percent
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: increase in calls into the communication center. That's quite significant.
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: So it's about the decision making and the judgment from
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: the call center to direct the resources where they need
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: to be. But the important thing is is there are
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: facilities where people can access, such as the Baton Road facility.
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: We rely heavily upon our town rangers, well lie heavily
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: on the public housing safety officers, transit officers and Larry
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: kia Nation to help us do our job as well.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Do you need more support from some of those other agencies?
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: I think Larry k do a great job. Yeah, I
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: think that it's just the volume is overwhelms us.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's tough, Like there's no doubt about that, and
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: no I reckon it's become something that so many people
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: are worried about. You know, we hear stories quite often
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: of you know, somebody might be going to get takeaway
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: and perrap and there's somebody who's picked up a sign
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: and is threatening people in their cars. They maybe haven't
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: actually hit anybody with their cars, but it's just behavior
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: that you don't want to see, you don't want the
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: kids to see, you know, out on the straight.
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it is, and it is quite confronting, and
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: it's the difference between confronting and criminal. But we do
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: our best. You know, our officers work hard twenty four
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: to seven. They're doing their best and accessing what services
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: we can do as this stuffs in the morning and
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: evenings as well to the curbs in this social bidea.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: Do we have enough police?
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: I think so. Yeah. We've got sixteen hundred and forty
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: police officers where recruiting recruited about two hundred and fifty
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: last year. There was one hundred and eighty nine constables,
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: forty seven auxiliaries and tanacpos. We've got fifty nine police
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: officers in college right now in three squads squad one
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: four five, one four six and the accelerated recruit program
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: and one four to seven. We've got another squad starting
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: in May and another twenty eight police officers and another
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: one later in the year with hopefully forty five. We're
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: additional auxiliaries and actpos planned for this month or the
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: following month. So yes, we do. And we are outstripping attrition,
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: which is still high, but we're seeing people leave for
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: different reasons. There are other employment opportunities. We're seeing Queensland,
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: New South Wales and Western Australia over three years recruit
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: four and a half thousand police, so we're an attractive
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: entity to those law enforcement bodies. We're seeing people who
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: are just making decisions Lias style choices to look seat
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: seat new employment. We've got cops going down to be
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: rangers in the national Parks in South Australia and just
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: different lifestyle choices. I think COVID, we say COVID's you know,
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: basically made a bit of a change for us as well,
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: because people have been away from family. The last two
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: years have been tough and you know, the global commentary
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: with police, we talk about police being assaulted all the time,
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: there's a national challenge about recruitment, but we seem to
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: be doing all right. Since we changed our online shape
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: for the future online applications, we've actually had an overwhelming
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: increase in people who want to come and join the
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: Northern Churich of Police.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: Now, before I let you go, just an update on
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: what is happening in What Air. I know that there
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: had been comments made by Northern Territory, well, Northern Territory
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: politician Melandarry McCarthy saying that basic humanitarian needs are not
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: being met. Are they out there in what Air from
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: your perspective, I know you're out there.
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: Earlier in the week, so I was out there early
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: in the week. We need to do some more work
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: in there to support them because this displacement is really
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: medium term. It's not going to be a short term
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: fixed with replacement to the housing and repairs, it's going
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: to take some months. So we need to make sure
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: and I know as a collective government and the organizations
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: on the ground there are doing a lot of work
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: to support the women, the children, and the men and
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: the traditional owners to live some sort of normal lifestyle
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: where they're going through this displacement. And there's some mediation
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: to bring harmony and peace back to that community.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a worry, no doubt about it. And you
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: want to make sure that people are safe out there,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: particularly women and children. Absolutely, Commissioner, Acting Commissioner Michael Murphy,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: we appreciate your time this morning.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having a chat with us. Thank you, Katie,
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: thank you.