Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / Man on Fire (2004) - Tony Scott | Houselights #167

Transcript

Man on Fire (2004) - Tony Scott | Houselights #167 · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

0:03
Welcome to the ned Palty. Hello everybody at home, and welcome to Houselights,
0:23
specifically House of Scott Tony Scott, and today we are talking about Man
0:29
on Fire, released in two thousand and four, starring Denzel Washington, Christopher
0:34
Walkin, and Dakota Fanning a young Dakota Fan and I every once in a
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while, when we talk about a movie or I talk about like when I'm
0:44
the host of one of the episodes, I say like, oh, this
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is totally reason why I wanted to do Tony Scott, or this is why
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I wanted to do David Fincher, This is the movie that made me want
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to do whatever. This is the reason why I wanted to talk about Tony
0:56
Scott was Man on Fire. I have been in love with this movie since
1:00
day one. I was lucky enough to see this in the theater, and
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I just I cannot wait to talk about it with you guys. I'm so
1:07
excited. And whether it's you know, good points, bad points, criticisms,
1:11
praises, it doesn't matter because I want to hear about it. And
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I also want to talk to our listeners and say, like, if you
1:18
have any any praises or criticisms, you know what, not criticism suggestions.
1:23
I think I'd rather hear suggestions and criticisms. Please go to the nerd party
1:26
dot com slash contact fill out the form it I'll send us an email.
1:30
We love getting emails from you guys. Or reach out to us on Instagram,
1:34
Twitter, or Facebook. We're doing a better job. We're trying to
1:38
do a better job at looking at our Facebook comments, but please reach out
1:42
to us. Let us know if you have any suggestions for directors in the
1:45
future, and if you want to please give us a review on iTunes or
1:49
whatever the hell it's called now Apple Podcasts. So tonight I am joined by
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two fantastic individuals who have been with me for every single episode, John Mills
1:59
and Darren Moser. Darren, I want to know when was the first time
2:04
he watched this movie. So I knew i'd seen bits of it, and
2:07
I'm pretty sure I watched this probably in my film college days. I mean
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this is four, so this would have come out right around when I was
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in college setting film, so I'm sure we saw it then. I just
2:19
haven't seen it since then, so I was basically a blank slate. I
2:23
remembered the steering wheel scene as we'll call it. But I and I knew
2:30
that she would get, you know, kidnapped and all that. But I
2:32
was like I had forgotten enough to just almost experience it new really like I'm
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ripping my seat. I'm like, that guy seems suspicious. Maybe he's on
2:42
in it too, or oh, we're definitely at the halfway mark because the
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music's changed and he's putting on sunglasses and he's like about to just mess up
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this city. So yeah, so second time viewing, but for all intents,
2:55
really almost a first time experience. John, what about I want to
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hear the in depth story of how you first saw this movie. You only
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want to hear the in depth story because you're the reason I saw this movie.
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And it was like a year or two ago because I mentioned I hadn't
3:08
seen Man, this is one of those where he mailed you like a DVD
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and like said, you must watch this. He gave me access to the
3:15
movie and he insisted that he would never speak to me again for the rest
3:20
of time, and he would hold his breath until I watched it. So
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it was a very tense seventy two hours as I worked my way around his
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family had to send him to the hospital to put him on a breathing machine,
3:30
and then they told him that I had watched it, and then and
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then they were able to remove it. So you know that's why Tristan is
3:36
here. Yeah, it is. You know what it was? It was
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not only did I save a friend's life, but I watched a great film.
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I'm you know, Tristan, you always say this when there are certain
3:46
movies where you're excited about them. You're like, I'm not gonna be coy
3:47
about this. I remember watching it for the first time and just like just
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being blown away and just immediately messaging Tristan and being like, oh my god,
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how did I go so long without watching this movie? So I was
4:00
thrilled to come back and watch Man on Fire again, Like, for me,
4:04
more than any other Tony Scott movie, I absolutely will jump at the
4:10
chance to watch this one again, while while at the same time approaching it
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more along the lines of, you know, you can't have flat mignon every
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night, right, I can't watch this too often, But when I really
4:21
want to watch something that I want to spend some time with, this is
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definitely in that short list right there. So that's me not being coy.
4:30
Yes, the first time I saw it was because of Tristan. I've adored
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it since then, and did my review change No, And so let's talk
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about the film. That's right, That's why we're here tonight. And so
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one thing I want to talk about is is you know Denzel. You know,
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the last last episode we talked about was another Denzel film, directed by
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Tony Scott, Crimson Tide, which we all rated very highly, and at
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this time, Denzel was saying that he was getting kind of bored with acting,
4:56
like he was thinking about I don't know if it was thinking about retiring,
5:00
but just like he felt like he was kind of in a slump that
5:01
nothing was really exciting him. And what happened was is that Tony Scott was
5:06
at a doctor's waiting room and Denzel was there too, and they just happened
5:12
to see each other in this waiting room and they hadn't seen each other since
5:16
Crimson Tied, since since they filmed Crimson Tied together, so you know,
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many years had passed and Scott just watched I Am Sam the night before starring
5:29
and even younger Dakota Fanning, and that's what got him thinking about putting Dakota
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Fanning and Denzel Washington together four men on fire, and then that's how it
5:38
happened. Wow, that's how we got those two people together. Interesting.
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I was just looking at Denzel's career and because I was like, oh,
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I'm curious what around now would have kind of tapered his love of film,
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and yeah, you have like you know John Q, Training Day, remember
5:53
the Titans like he you know he was he was in a movie pretty much
5:57
every single year, like he so Siege and the Siege was Yeah, and
6:03
we're just about to hit after this, Uh, we're gonna do Inside Man,
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which I love. Inside Man, it's such a great, great picture.
6:12
Well, I think I I was just gonna say that, like,
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okay, I think that post Training Day you have John Q, Antoine Fisher
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and Out of Time. Yeah. Yeah, none of those movies really did
6:24
that well, none of them really had that kind of staying power, especially
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Out of Time and John Q. Maybe, but no, I think,
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like you was, John Q was not good. I saw that in the
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movie theater because they they wisely released that as Denzel was getting the oscar buzz
6:42
going in or it was either right before or right after whatever. But basically
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they were riding the training day high and that's how they suckered somebody like me
6:49
and to go see that movie. Oh and I also directed and produced Antoine
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Fisher, so he was that was like, yeah, I put it all
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in. Yeah, yeah, I can see so I can definitely see why
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during that time, like why he was a little frustrated. Like again,
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I don't remember him mentioning retiring. I just remember hearing the word boredom and
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frustration and so. Like obviously, you know, whenever you look up these
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movies they talk about how like oh, so and so was considered and so
7:15
and so was considered. It was just like, yeah, that's such a
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wide ranging definition considered. It could have been one producer just saying here's our
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usual suspects, you know, and then Wikipedia or IMDb or whatever is going
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to slap it up there. We're he's actually objagligated to like posts that we
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need a person, but we're not obligated by actually choosing them. We know
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who. It's sort of like when the you know, an NFL team is
7:41
looking for a head coach, they already know who they're going to hire,
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but they release a ton of names out there so that if that person says
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no, their feelings don't get hurt. Basically like we were thinking of other
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people too. You didn't want to do it, but yeah, one one
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person I know who did turn it down, who was offered before Denzel was
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Russ Crow. So Tony Scott offered it to Russell Crowe and he was filming
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Mastering Commander at the time, and I can't remember if they saw each other
8:07
person or he called him up rest. No, it wasn't so much like,
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no, I'm exhausted for Mastering Commander. Even though that was a grueling
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filming experience. It was like, hey, Tony, did you see Proof
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of Life? He's like, yeah, I saw Proof of Life. He's
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like yeah, okay, so I'm not going to do Man on Fire.
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Yeah. I'm so glad that it wound up being Denzel Washington because you know,
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as you say, Russell Crowe, I can I can actually envision what
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that looks like, what this movie looks like with Russell Crowe. And this
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is where I'll throw the praise on Denzel Washington. Is Denzel Washington, when
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when everything lines upright, he brings a he brings a humanity to a character
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that either makes me despise as in the case of training Day, or root
8:52
I mean or root for also in the case of training Day. But like,
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you know, like he has that charisma to him where he has such
9:00
an understated sort of thing. And as I was watching it, you know,
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trying to be a little bit you know, looking at the at the
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finer details of performance, there's certain facial ticks that he introduces at certain moments
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that root him in such a way that I think really just carries out what
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the emotion of that scene is. Right, He's a very visually expressive actor
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in the sense that he's not relying on his voice, he's not relying on
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big physicality. He knows the small motions that can make you emotionally invested in
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somebody. It's a certain way that he purses his lips, it's a certain
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way that he looks with his eyes, like he knows how to convey that
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sort of thing. Yes, I know every great actor has these skills,
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but I look at Denzel's performance here in Man on Fire. It needed him
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or somebody who could convey emotion like him. It couldn't be somebody who was
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big and scary or gruff and Russell crow very much has that type of energy
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to him. I have to believe in somebody who can be meek Russell Crowe.
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I think of what was that movie recently where he's like road rage and
10:05
like chases you down. Oh yeah, h that's Russell Crowe, not like
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I want to learn how to be friends again. It's like no, no,
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no, yeah, yeah. I don't see Russell Crowe pulling off the
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phone call at Christopher walk In the same way. Yeah, or releasing releasing
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the burden to the wild. It just doesn't know, yeah, yes,
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yeah, that's true. Speaking of Christopher Walkin, So they originally wanted Christopher
10:30
walking to play Jordan Kalphus Mickey Rourke's role as the lawyer, but Walkin said
10:35
that he was kind of tired of of just being the bad guy. And
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I love his interpretation of the character. This was it was so great.
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Originally it was going to go to Marlon Brando, like that's that's who Tony
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Scott wanted. And I because Tony's got like Tony Scotton really had a relationship
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with with Marlon Brando. They were friends and and I think he shot some
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commercials with him. But I could see Brando doing it, but I feel
11:03
like at this time in his life, Brando would have made it way too
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jokey. Yes, I think that's the right way to put it. Brando.
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Brando was post Brando at this point. Yeah, he was wink at
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the audience. I'm trading on my name Brando by this point. But walkin
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you could tell, you know, because you know, we've all there's so
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many different versions of walking and we've all seen them. This one you could
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tell he took this job seriously. He understood the character. He understood more
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importantly, the relationship between Denzel and hymns, between Creasy and him and I
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love how little we knew about their history, Like we didn't have a biography
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of either of them. We didn't like. All we kind of knew was
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that like there was there was one kind of scene of exposition where we get
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Giancarlo Giannini and he's talking with with I can I can never pronounce her last
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name, Rachel Taikotin Coat man. I hate I hate that. I can't
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remember. I can never remember how to pray the love interest from total recall.
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There you go. She was the journalist and they had that mon of
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exposition where he's just like he's like, oh, you know, like he's
12:05
you don't understand this guy. He's you know, counterinsurgency and he's he's an
12:09
assassin. But that was the most that we got, Like, but we
12:13
didn't even really need that scene because we got that idea of X Special Forces
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or X whatever CIA between what Walking to Washington talked about it specifically one scene
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like that absolutely love was the introduction of their relationship when there's two of them,
12:28
you know, surrounded by people but yet alone, and Washington says like,
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do you think God will ever forgive us for what we've done? And
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without hesitation, Walking goes, no, No, I don't, and like
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there's there's no exploit, there's no flashback, there's no you know, like
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you know remember that time, you know when we were in Morocco. You
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know, like there's nothing, none of that. But what did you guys
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think about that relationship? Yeah you remember Budapest? Yeah, now I know.
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And in action movies, there's I love that character. We've all seen
12:56
it, like we've seen it in Commando, We've seen it in you know,
12:58
Prater. Every action movie has like their guy who you know, he
13:03
was either the guy in the van or he was like, you know,
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he's this and not that necessly walking wasn't on par when whatever shady things they
13:11
were doing in the past. But now he's serving that role. But yeah,
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he played that kind of a role perfectly, and just yeah, I
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think you said it where he conveys so much and you know there's a history
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here and it just all comes through and it's almost less as more. Yeah,
13:28
we didn't need Oh look, I pulled up his rap sheet and you
13:31
know, now we're into you under siege where they're like, well, what
13:35
do you mean the cook is you know, a dedicated marine. It's like,
13:39
no, we don't need that. We don't need any of that.
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We just need that these two guys are at this stage of their life and
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he's going to be there for him. I'm glad he doesn't turned crooked or
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die because you know, everything's on the table in this movie. There's a
13:52
lot of stuff that goes down. What do you think, John, Oh,
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No, I completely agree with everything you're saying. And I think additionally,
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just to go back to actors who know how to inhabit their physicality necessary
14:05
for the role, the whole picture with them is even in the way they
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move. You see the two different ways you can react to well, I
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mean there are many ways, but you can see flip sides of the coin
14:16
of dealing with a difficult past. You can tell it's consumed Denzel Washington,
14:24
and you can tell that basically the reason Christopher Walking can answer no so quickly
14:28
is to him, he's like, well, there's nothing gonna do about it.
14:31
And it's like, it just depends on the person how they're gonna go
14:33
with it. You can't. Not everybody reacts the same way, but these
14:37
guys are bonded in such a way that a lesser director, Tristan, I
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think to get to what you're saying, like, does feel the need to
14:43
have the flashback or the added exposition or somebody Tom and they have matching tattoos
14:48
from back in the day. Yeah, again, all the tropes, we've
14:52
seen it, all this is done or John Carlo Giannini's character Miguel Manzano opens
14:58
up but a thick folder and he's like, my god. Yeah, they
15:03
were with each other in Afghanistan for three years. Yeah, yeah, you
15:07
know, did they pay him in cigarettes for like this? And Hannibal because
15:11
I swear that guy went through. He went through at least a cart and
15:13
a take like and Eve, it's crazy. And did you notice he had
15:16
this little He had this thing that I've never seen him do in another movie
15:20
where he takes a puff but then he's immediately embarrassed with blowing out the smoke
15:26
and then tries to push this way. I haven't seen that in another thing,
15:28
but you're right, he does do that. That is a great That
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is a great touch. I love those little affectations that kind of each character
15:35
brought. I was also glad that he wasn't bad, because again, yes,
15:39
everything's on the table, and I'm like, I'm like, okay,
15:43
like people in this government, left right and center are in on this,
15:46
and I'm really hoping and I'm starting to think, like wait, like I
15:48
thought, and well they did. They did show that he shot the guy
15:52
in the pool because and that made sense because I'm like, you, he's
15:56
the guy who knew where that guy was and I'm like, oh no,
16:00
oh, like he's gonna start getting in the way. But okay, thank
16:02
god, we need a couple of good people in this in this world.
16:04
Well that's the thing is just like you know, you keep referencing how easy
16:08
it would have been to bring those eighties tropes to it, and I think
16:11
that you know this, this is a This is the second ten years,
16:15
twenty years earlier, would have been drowning in that and it was made earlier
16:21
like this. This is a remake. I guess I shouldn't say remake,
16:23
but it's based off of the same source material. There is a movie starring
16:26
Scott Glenn called Man on Fire that takes place in Italy, which was the
16:30
original script for this was going to be taking place in Italy, but by
16:33
that time, kidnapping is kind of bit was put under control and it was
16:37
just crazy in Mexico City, and at the time would have bought it exactly
16:44
exactly, and so that's why they changed it. And I think it was
16:47
Scott's suggestion to change it to Mexico City. And but anyway, what I
16:51
was saying, what I was going to say, was that you keep talking
16:53
about eighties tropes and this movie could is so on the verge. Are shouldn't
17:00
say on the verge, I should say it would have been very easy to
17:03
move into schlock territory with this, with this story, with this action,
17:10
with with everything it would have. But the beauty of what Scott does with
17:14
this story and the editing, which we'll get to, I'm talking about the
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macro editing, not the micro editing. The macro editing of this is that
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he takes it right up to the line and doesn't go over. And you
17:23
know, we were talking about about Walkin's performance, you know, like one
17:26
of those moments is when Walkin is talking about Creasy being you know, a
17:32
crazy good killer, you know, like he says, he's like, you
17:33
know, like you can you can be an artist in anything, you know,
17:37
food, whatever, if you're if you're good enough at it. You
17:40
know, Creasy's art is death and he's about to paint his masterpiece. That
17:42
line, it tells you so much. He could have really been delivered in
17:47
a super cheesy way, even though they used it in every single trailer,
17:52
you know, like like it of those moments you got to, you got
17:56
to, you got to. But it's it's just that's just one small example
18:00
of like you know, you're talking about the guy please stop me from droning
18:03
on, but you're talking about the voice who gets who dies at the very
18:07
end. Like this happens basically almost as an afterthought, like the big bat
18:12
of the movie is shot in the head by the lead in the same day.
18:18
Okay, like Creasey doesn't do it, Walkin doesn't do it. You
18:22
know, it's it's Gien Carlo does it. And it's in a black and
18:25
white, gritty you know, just almost like just a few frames. And
18:30
that's another thing that kind of subverts the trope of the of the A's action
18:33
film, like there's no big there's no big shootout, there's no big explosion.
18:37
Now imagine that wasn't have like a grenade with him or something like when
18:41
he's going to the car at the end, it's like, okay, how
18:42
is he gonna like turn the ta It's like, no, he he knows
18:45
he's dead. He's they shot that, Yeah, oh they did. They
18:48
shot like a shootout at the end, and then he still diess it was
18:52
it wasn't a shootout. He makes the original ending of Man on Fire was
18:56
he makes it to the voices house, doesn't die. And then once he
18:59
gets to the house, they have a conversation back and forth, you know,
19:02
like blah blah blah blah blah. Bad guy, good guy, bad
19:03
guy, but good guy. And then we find out that Denzel does have
19:07
that that transmitter still and still has some C four and his pager watch goes
19:11
off and he blows up himself and the house. Oh I did kind of
19:15
think of that actually, Like I thought maybe something like that, because they
19:19
search it and there's nothing on it. So but I like the ending we
19:23
got. Oh, absolutely, John, I want to hear your thoughts on
19:26
that. The ending we got is so much better, so much better,
19:30
I mean. And that's the thing is, like it's it's so difficult to
19:33
navigate that sort of like, oh, well, you know original ending all
19:36
no, like any any production sort of is, unless you're dealing with something
19:41
like Star Wars. Wars like the death Star has to blow up at the
19:42
end, right, there's no ending where the death Star doesn't blow up.
19:45
But like movies like this, you know what what's what's the old saying a
19:49
movie is created three times, once when it's written, once when it's shot,
19:52
and then the third time when it's edited or however that goes. And
19:56
so it makes perfect sense that they would say, well, let's see how
19:59
this plays. You would rather have it and not use it, then get
20:03
in the editing bay and say, oh, crap. This really would have
20:07
worked better this way, but we were pushing two twenty on time, like
20:11
I it could have been twenty four I think credits right, So yeah,
20:15
yeah, might have been really long. But I think that the ending is
20:18
perfect because it underscores the fact that for Creasy, the thing isn't taking down.
20:23
He's not on a mission now to take down the entire cartel in Mexico.
20:27
He's not in you know, gonna broadcast in the world. All that
20:30
matters to him is getting her back, period. Everything else is secondary,
20:34
Like once he finds out that she's alive, Yeah, right, that's it.
20:37
That's it. And I think it's so poetically beautiful the way that because
20:42
the thing is, it's what it winds up doing, is giving it such
20:48
a poetic ending because through the whole thing he reads the Bible, but he's
20:52
you know, do you read the Bible? Yes? Does it help sometimes?
20:56
Right, Like he's very ambivalent about everything, but then he had he
21:00
dies, letting go of the Saint Jude Metal as they're driving away, and
21:03
you get the sense of like it's a very satisfying ending because there's that supernatural
21:10
sense of he's blessed. It's you did what was necessary and nothing more.
21:15
You're free to go now. And it's like, that's the type of beautiful
21:18
ending we always want. It's a type of ending we want from something like
21:21
Gladiator. Your mission is over. You're not gonna go and reconquer the empire.
21:25
Gator. I thought I heard it a lot, and that's fine.
21:30
I'm fine with that, because man, that woman's voice is stunningly wonderful and
21:36
will get me. It will get me real close to crying real quick when
21:41
I hear it coming on. I'm like, oh, oh, no,
21:42
sad happening. Oh it was funny that it was both Scott Scott brothers.
21:47
We're just like, yeah, no, no, this We're yeah, we're
21:48
gonna we're gonna use her here. But yeah, the moment for me,
21:52
the moment that you're talking about John, that I think that really really sells
21:56
it. That because while as you're watching this, as you see him going
21:59
as rampage, you don't think he thinks he's going to get away with it,
22:03
Like like you're looking at him, he's like, he's not weird about
22:06
jail time, he's not worried about death. He knows he's not going to
22:10
make it out of here. That's not the point. Revenge, Like the
22:12
revenge is the point, and that's what makes him terrifying. Yeah, and
22:18
and so especially like when we see him get shot in the chest, we're
22:21
like, oh, okay, that's it. I'm like, buddy, go
22:22
buy some body armor, Like just just a little right here. You get
22:26
shot in the chest so many times. But what I what I want to
22:30
talk about is the moment for me that really sells that whole arc, the
22:36
whole thing of like not only his his emotional arc, but and his story
22:41
arc and his vengeance arc, but also the relationship between him and Lupita is
22:45
when he when she says I'm going to go home and he's like, yeah,
22:48
I'm going home too. Like I'm getting choked up just mentioning it right
22:52
now, you know, like that moment, that one line right there that
22:56
he has with her. He knows he's he's gone, and he's happy about
23:00
it. It's I shouldn't Maybe not happy, he's not the right word.
23:03
He's at peace. He's at peace here you go. He's at peace with
23:06
it. And I think, you know, because you have the whole thing
23:08
of I think something that's so beautiful about the way their their relationship works as
23:14
well is the moment where it dawns on him when he's at the swim meet
23:18
and the sister says, you're her father today, And especially in light of
23:22
everything else that unfolds, you realize this girl's never had a real dad,
23:26
like not the way that he's being a dad to her, He's being the
23:30
dad she's always wanted her dad to be. Now I'm not you know,
23:33
Mark Anthony. He's a captain of business and all of this stuff, and
23:37
he's super important, and he's working his job and he spends long hours and
23:40
he goes on big trips and he's got a flashy lifestyle and it's so hollow
23:44
at the inside, so absolutely hollow at the inside. And his kid loves
23:48
him because he's dad. But she loves Creasy because Creasey's there for her and
23:53
it's such an important thing. And it's like it really emphasizes just the way
24:00
that found family thing that happens. Family isn't just blood. Because conversely,
24:06
then you have the voice who wants to save his brother and his family,
24:10
and he says family is everything, isn't it? And you can look at
24:12
that, you can say, oh, what a hypocrite. Well yeah,
24:15
but man, I'll tell you what. If you ever want to underline how
24:18
these psychopaths can turn it on for their own family and then absolutely treat everybody
24:23
else like a piece of meat. Watch an interview with Richard Koklinsky, the
24:26
Iceman, mafia hitman, legendary guy they made an Okay movie with Michael Shannon
24:30
about, but in the interviews with him, this talk he's just just passionately
24:34
the way we're talking talk about killing people. It's like, oh, yeah,
24:37
you know, I'd go in the club, but it's Bill seinaid on
24:40
somebody to see how long it would take. Right. He was called the
24:41
Iceman because he would murder them, put them in a freezer, and then
24:44
dump the body three weeks later to confound the cops because the body would be
24:47
fresh and the cops would get the time of death wrong and he'd have an
24:49
alibi. Right. So but then they ask him, well, what about
24:53
how this affected your family? And the guy almost starts crying and he says,
24:56
I'm not going to talk about that. So it's like it's so fat
25:00
fascinating because at the core of this is all family and its dysfunction. But
25:03
it's it's one of those things where it's like what additionally makes his relationship with
25:08
her and with Christopher walk and works so well as you see the dysfunction,
25:12
the lip service. So many people can give to family and love in the
25:15
world, but we see these these people and we see it really being expressed
25:19
with them like the way it should be, and it's like, it's just
25:22
it's just beautiful. I think that's what makes those emotional moments hit so hard.
25:26
Sorry, I'll stop talking now. Well, one thing I want to
25:29
mention, because you were talking about family. You know Pete's mother, Lisa
25:33
Ramos, she had a much bigger role in the script, and they actually
25:38
filmed some of these scenes and I'm about to explain them to you and think,
25:44
God, they got rid of this subplot because you know how she goes
25:48
in and asks them like, hey, can you you know, can you
25:51
take me to get my hair done? And and he's like, yeah,
25:56
sure, and so he takes her to get her hair done. That like,
26:00
we know none of that that, none of that's but they actually filmed
26:03
it, and the de leaded scene is on the Blu ray and DVD and
26:07
you can he she's getting her hair done or something, and he's sitting on
26:11
a park bench and he sees a kidnapping go down, but it's not for
26:15
her, you know, it's another kidnapping that he's witnessing, and so he
26:18
has to protect her because the kidnapping goes bad. There are shotguns and a
26:22
huge explosion. It was way overkill, you know, Like they were right
26:26
to cut it, like because it just doesn't It was completely unnecessary. And
26:30
then after that, like they tease more of this weird chemistry between the two
26:33
of them and they actually have sex. Creasy and the mom have sex in
26:37
the in the car, and it's horrible. I'm so glad that got cut
26:44
right out. Thank god that didn't make the cut. So talking about that
26:47
vibe, I finally clictic. I was I was trying to remember this because
26:52
I'm like, I was thinking about Tenant for some reason, and I'm like,
26:55
why was I thinking about Tenant earlier? Same kind of vibe where the
27:00
antagonist Denzil's son in real life, but like that vibe was kind of a
27:04
similar wavelength of what he has with the wife, the bad guy's wife Intenant.
27:11
Like, again, it doesn't go anywhere, but yeah, there's that
27:14
weird like, why is there chemistry here? Like we're not in a place
27:18
where that's really appropriate or needed. It's it's a holdover again. It's a
27:25
holdover from the eighties where like, oh, you have the male lead you're
27:27
the least handsome, and you have the adult female lead who's beautiful, and
27:33
so they must be attracted to each other. Mm hmmm, because it's men
27:37
and your men weren't about the previous bodyguard getting let go because of her and
27:45
him. I was getting it sounded like it was a money issue. Oh
27:51
that's well, well that's what the girl said. That's what Dakota Fanning said.
27:55
I to watch again. But the vibes I was getting from the husband
28:00
was like we had to let him go, like it was I was getting
28:03
like pool boy vibes, Like oh no, I mean, I'm not saying
28:07
you're wrong. I didn't. I didn't get that. I thought it was
28:10
just his money struggles where in order to get that insurance claim he had to
28:15
find someone cheaper because you know, he discussed, you know, with Denzel
28:18
like why you're so cheap? Speaking speaking with the the the insurance claim one
28:22
of the absolute master strokes of this movie is the fact that in retrospect,
28:26
you like when, especially the first time you watch it, you don't realize
28:30
that that first conversation you're seeing is Mark Anthony arranging the kidnapping of his own
28:33
daughter, and then later when you realize that that's him needing to hire Denzel.
28:38
But but that to me is masterful filmmaking because he puts it right there
28:44
in front of my face and I don't catch it, and then later I'm
28:47
like, oh, that's what they were. Oh my, it wasn't no,
28:49
you know, like because it I think it's so cool because it just
28:53
emphasizes how easy it is to slip this sort of Shenanigan's past people and set
29:00
things up. And it's like it makes it even more diabolical because you feel
29:03
betrayed as the audience because you suddenly find out that Mark Anthony's never really cared
29:08
about his family in the right way to begin with. And a what a
29:11
piece of filth. Although I will say Mark Anthony, I would have never
29:15
had him on my bingo card is giving a great performance in a film,
29:18
but he does, and like, I think he does a great job here.
29:22
It's like he's not a guy I would have gone to cast Well.
29:25
And speaking of the dad of Mark Anthony, let's talk about the bullet,
29:29
because that was a really interesting plot device of you know, from Denzil's,
29:34
from Creasey's Lowest of Low, like he's suicidal, he's straight up tried to
29:41
kill himself and the bullet in an automatic gun didn't go off, and then
29:45
I and then it leads to that great conversation you know with Christopher walking and
29:51
you're just like, wow, this guy is barely holding it together. But
29:55
then that becoming the bullet that he gives. You know, the bullet is
29:59
always truthful or what do they say, something like that bullet always tells the
30:02
truth, always tells the truth. Yeah, And I mean we all see
30:04
it coming a mile away. We're like, oh, he's gonna give the
30:07
bullet, and of course it's gonna work, but it gives him the also
30:11
kind of eighties trope of like I'm not gonna kill you, You're gonna kill
30:15
yourself, and I'm gonna be walking away in the other room when we hear
30:18
the shot, Like, so I have a little edge of like I could
30:22
look at Dakota Fanning in the face and not say like I shot your father
30:26
because you know, and your mother didn't have to do it, like,
30:32
you know, we skirt the line right there, so that you know he
30:34
can he could be the good guy. Well, I think it's also important
30:37
because regardless of that, we find out later that Pete is alive, you
30:41
know, Mark Anthony, he's like, I don't know what you could have
30:47
done with him as a character outside of that, because it's not like she
30:51
gets saved at the end. And then he's like, well, okay,
30:52
I'll go to jail now, Like this is what he's gonna do anyway,
30:56
regardless of anything else. Like that's just the end of it. And I'm
31:00
not endorsing the idea for anybody or any reason or anything obviously, but it's
31:06
like, story wise, there is a finality to it, and I think
31:10
it's handled in that poetic way of you know, like like like you say,
31:15
Denzel saying, you give it a shot. Maybe it's just a dud,
31:18
right, who knows? And the thing and then it adds even more
31:22
import to the fact that it didn't go off for Denzel because now we don't
31:26
have an explanation for why it didn't go off, and it's like, you
31:29
know, it's I don't know, it wasn't meant for him, right exactly.
31:32
It was one of those things that wasn't meant for him, It was
31:33
meant for somebody else. And I really enjoyed that scene because of when Denzel
31:40
is a part of the scene, but then he's not. Where we have
31:45
this, we have a very real moment between the husband and wife when all
31:49
cards are laid out on the table and Denzel knows he doesn't need to like
31:52
Creasy knows he doesn't need to say anything. He literally walks away and sits
31:56
down and just lets them talk, lets them do what they need to do.
32:00
And I love that we only cut I think, you know, Scott
32:02
only cut to him like maybe twice, you know, like during that exchange
32:06
when he's just sitting there and like John you were talking still there right exactly,
32:09
And John you were talking about earlier about facial expressions, like his lack
32:13
of facial expressions there really conveyed what was going on. And I thought it.
32:17
I thought it was a very like you said, from a story perspective,
32:21
it made sense, like that's what this, that's what the dad needed
32:23
to do, he needed to offer himself, like he that was again in
32:27
the story sense, it was the noble thing to do. It was the
32:30
last thing he could do to save falling on his sword. Bullet, Yeah,
32:36
falling falling on his sword. Basically like, you screwed You screwed up
32:38
that bad. You needed to fall on your sword. You know what It's
32:42
like Frank Pentangelei in The Godfather Part two spoilers for everybody who hasn't seen it,
32:45
But it is Frank about it here on house Lights, So people must
32:49
have seen it if they're far into the show at the point, Darren.
32:52
But it is it's it's like it you know that that that you know it
32:57
really is, because as you're talking about it does it does follow that same
33:00
sort of pattern. But the thing is, like, we're sitting here loving
33:04
this, and Tristan, I'm sorry, you know, I can't stay away
33:07
from this much longer. I was wondering, why does this have such a
33:13
low aggregate on both Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic. Why did critics not plug into
33:17
this, Like I'm asking the both of you, Like I look at this
33:22
and I'm like, what was there not to like? Guys, like the
33:25
thirty eight percent on Rotten Tomatoes, Like what and I know how it works
33:30
and everything. It's like I but like maybe it's my vibe is like it's
33:36
really tough to watch subject matter kids getting kidnapped, lots of like it's kind
33:40
of a shade too real. There's very little veneer between like you know,
33:46
a movie and actually some people's lives. You know. Like again, not
33:52
that everybody in America is watching this and being like, oh, I relate
33:55
to these characters because I'm worried that my kids are going to kidnap, but
33:59
like maybe that's a bit of it. Like you know, you're in two
34:02
thousand and four, You're only like, you know, a couple of years
34:06
out from nine to eleven. Everyone's been having this gut punch like it is
34:09
not a happy film. It is not a it is it's a vendetta film.
34:15
It is not a revenge film. It's and I'll make the distinction being
34:19
you know he you know his vendetta of like arenyone who touched this process I'm
34:24
going to kill and I again, not that it wasn't a good movie,
34:28
not that it wasn't enjoyable, but yeah, it's just it's a strong cup
34:32
of or like you even said at the beginning. I can't rewatch this over
34:37
and over and over and take it in. It's got to be like,
34:39
yeah, taking taking breath, I hear, what do you think to Hearry
34:44
Well, I think that one thing that people really didn't connect with. I
34:47
think I think a lot of people didn't connect with because this was a seventy
34:52
million dollar budget and worldwide gross was one thirty, so it was just shy
34:57
of doubling its budget in order to make its money back, so technically this
35:00
movie was a loss. Yeah. I think the one thing that people really
35:05
got irked about was Tony Scott's new style editing and cinematography. I think this
35:09
is a hit or miss. It's either you embrace it and you love it,
35:14
or it's way too annoying. I mean, I remember, like I
35:16
saw this in the theater and I was blown away. I was like,
35:20
damn, you know, like it was two thousand and four. I was
35:22
like, this is cool. I haven't seen anything like this before, you
35:25
know, Like, and I went to school to become an editor, and
35:29
I was an editor for years, and I was like, I just I
35:32
was about to graduate school high school and go to film school, and I
35:37
saw this movie and I was like, man, son of a Bitch,
35:39
this is awesome, And but not everybody likes that frenetic, crazy style because
35:45
like this this movie, like the opening scene, the opening scene, Tony
35:50
Scott overdoes it, and I think he overdoes it on purpose to show you,
35:54
hey, this is what the movie's gonna be, just so you know.
35:58
Like this, it remind finded me of the opening of Into the Spider
36:01
Verse, Like when you watch that opening, you're just like, what is
36:05
happening in my eyes? I can't stop blinking, my eyes won't focus,
36:07
and it's just this craziness just happening at you. I haven't seen Deja Vu,
36:13
which we'll get to later. I almost double checked, like did I
36:16
start watching Deja Vu instead of Man on Fire? Because honestly, the opening,
36:22
like from what I know of Deja Vum, like it could have been
36:25
the beginning of that movie, like the jump cuts in the backwards footage,
36:30
and it was very similar. Yeah, it's like like Man on Fire,
36:34
Deja Vu, Domino are all done in this in this style. And Tony
36:38
Scott he kind of did a proof of concept short film. He did a
36:44
short film for BMW. It was a series. It was a series of
36:47
short films that BMW got eight influential directors, and Tony Scott was one of
36:52
them. I'm not going to list all of them, but Guy Richie and
36:53
John who were some other some of them. And it was called The Highre
36:59
and Clive Owen played a driver, a man for higher driver of this new
37:05
BMW, and so it was all like these little vignettes. And Tony Scott's
37:09
film was called Beat the Devil. And I love explaining the plot of this
37:15
because if you haven't seen it, go on YouTube and you know Google,
37:17
you search Beat the Devil. And so James Brown, the James Brown hires
37:25
Clive O to drive him to meet the literal devil played by none other than
37:31
Gary Oldman. Gary Oldman's driver is Danny Trejo. Again. I'm just I'm
37:37
I'm loving it just talking about it. And the reason why James Brown wants
37:42
to meet the Devil again is because he wants to renegotiate his contract that he
37:45
made room with him when he was a young man. He's like, I'm
37:49
agent, man, I'm agent. I'm getting old. He's like, I
37:51
want to renegotiate my contract. Things go haywire, and you know, like
37:54
they're they're chasing each other. I think the Devil's in a muscle car and
38:00
you know, Clive Owen is driving the Beamer and it just goes crazy.
38:05
And it's all done in this style, even the subtitles, like they even
38:07
have unnecessary English subtitles in the same style as Man on Fire. And he
38:13
did this on purpose, like he like they, you know, Tony Scott
38:16
and really's got have done tons of commercials, and they went and found him,
38:19
and Tony Scott was just like, oh my god, this is this
38:21
is perfect. This is the perfect avenue to try out this new shooting and
38:24
editing style. And he loved it, and so he's like, Yep,
38:28
it works. I'm going to do this in a major motion picture, and
38:30
he did with Man on Fire. And so John, that is my long
38:32
ass answer to why I think a lot of people didn't connect with it.
38:36
And also it gives a little backstory as to, you know, why these
38:39
next three movies that he's made are in that style. So you're saying I
38:44
could walk up to somebody and have like a Picasso and hand it to them
38:47
and say, hey, here's a Picasso, what do you think and they'd
38:51
throw it in the garbage because they don't they don't appreciate what they're getting.
38:53
That that that's pretty much by the way, that BMW commercial you're talking about,
38:59
Yeah, it's like the the whole Crossroads thing, Like it's so ludicrous.
39:05
Wasn't it a super Bowl commercial? Didn't they have like a trailer for
39:07
it during the Super Bowl or something like that? I think they did,
39:10
but it was only like a tiny bit because each of the lip each of
39:14
the HighRes is like multi minutes long, like there, yeah, Beat the
39:16
Devil was ten minutes long. Yeah, yeah, and so what really expensive
39:22
super Bowl? No? No, but but like I seem to recall that
39:23
they had like a thing in the Super Bowl. It was like a thirty
39:28
second add it was like watch the rest on this new thing called the Internet.
39:31
Yeah probably probably probably probably probably Okay, So I want to talk like,
39:37
is it's not just the editing, but it's also the cinematography, very
39:38
cinema verite, very you know, like snap focus and and you know,
39:43
like you know, like I haven't had you know kind of thing. Yeah,
39:47
but looking at this, I'm looking at that. There's a thing,
39:50
there's a thing over there. But at the same time, it's not like
39:53
a green Grass film, you know, it's not like all handheld is not
39:57
running around. It just every once in a while it gets a little cra
40:00
and the cinematographer ed is Paul Cameron, and I want to just throw out
40:05
some of the titles that you might recognize them from Gone in sixty Seconds,
40:09
Swordfish, Collateral, Deja Vu, and some Pirates movies and everything like that,
40:15
and I also did some Westworld stuff. But anyway, like if you
40:17
think about Gone in sixty Seconds, you think about Swordfish, you think about
40:22
Collateral, like these are all distinctive director styles, but also you can feel
40:25
Cameron in that early well, I think you can feel Cameron in those.
40:31
But I think it's really interesting if you watch Collateral and then Man on Fire
40:36
to see how two directors with clear visions can also like it's not like,
40:43
oh, this is a camera. It's like, no, it's me collaborating
40:45
with the directors, like I'm I am bringing the director's vision to screen because
40:51
it's like there's a real And actually Collateral was same year and it got a
40:55
ton of nominations, whereas The Man on Fire did not, which again don't
41:02
know why. So Darren, what did you think of this new editing style
41:07
from Scott, because like we've seen a lot of Scott movies in the past,
41:09
from the eighties and nineties, an hour in two thousand and four,
41:13
What did you think about this new millennium editing and shooting style. I mean,
41:17
it didn't surprise me, honestly, having watched Last Boy Scout and True
41:22
Romance, this feels like the natural progression of like him turning that knob to
41:29
eleven, like the the I think of like True Romance, like you have
41:31
the fights like when oh, what's her name the girl? Yeah, when
41:37
she's fighting yeah, Alabama, when she's fighting for her life, you know,
41:42
and all of that. And also in Last Boy Scout. I don't
41:44
know, I want to talk about Last Boyscout a bunch, but you know,
41:46
I think nobody does. Yeah it but it but aget what I'm saying,
41:50
Like it feels like that was always kind of there. It's just and
41:53
what if we turned it to eleven? It's like, this is what you
41:57
get. I'm glad that he kind of move past that by the time we
42:00
get too Unstoppable. It's so interesting as we're talking about this director's podcast,
42:06
because I mean, we all know, like it's the director, it's the
42:09
editor, it's a cinematographer. It's like all these mix you're gonna get something
42:14
completely different. You could have, you know, the same cinematographer. Like
42:16
you said, do two movies in the same year and they love one and
42:20
they hate the other, Like it's always this rolling of the dice. Well,
42:23
I'm glad that you brought up that, Like you're glad that he's moved
42:27
on. And even though I love this style, I don't want to see
42:30
it forever, you know, Like I don't want to see him locked into
42:34
it. Like, oh, that's all that we're gonna get from Tony Scott
42:36
for the next two decades, you know. Like it's like when Bourne movies
42:38
started Shaky Cam and it was like it was cool for a second and then
42:44
we're like, wait, wait, wait, put that gd back of the
42:45
bottle. He invented this thing called the steady caam. You know what it
42:51
does. Let's just see what you're looking at, and you know what,
42:54
then we're gonna and then they move to you know, not lighting things at
42:58
night, and it was everything was pitch black, and I'm just old guys,
43:02
John, I have a specific question for you. Uh oh, subtitles,
43:06
Oh my god. Oh yeah, people need to go to the need
43:08
to have this in subtitle school. Like this is like you said, I
43:12
don't necessarily want to see this every blah blah blah, but like, how
43:15
much more interesting would subtitles be if they did this sort of stuff right,
43:19
so that it would be there in like creatively expressively done the way that the
43:24
characters feel, as opposed to that sort of Okay, okay, I'm splitting
43:29
my attention between reading and looking up at expressions and stuff. It was in
43:34
the frame. It was very deep, yes, in the frame, and
43:36
it would it would, it would emphasize itself depending on how the character was
43:39
saying. It wasn't just flashed up it would. It was about but so
43:45
interesting. It was such a better way to do things. I don't like
43:51
sub subtitles. Okay, Look, if I'm watching a French film, yeah,
43:53
okay, I can't necessarily have these sort of subtitles right, there's just
43:58
too much I don't understand going on. But in so I think that's multi
44:00
lingual. This makes all the sense in the world. It makes all the
44:02
sense. Maybe don't do it in quite the same way. Because this is
44:07
specifically this works for the way Man on Fire is done, but you could
44:10
at least take some notes from this and you know, go along, like
44:14
I'd love to see. I think if anybody of any living director out there,
44:17
I think that Tarantino would be the most likely to pick something like this
44:21
up and say, oh, that's an interesting way to do it, and
44:22
sort of like mimic it. If he has somebody speaking a foreign language like
44:27
that that would make sense to me and have the language come up but still
44:30
be in the other language, so it's like it's exit but like, well,
44:36
it doesn't help us the the viewer at all. But that's kind of
44:39
funny because well, I mean from the English perspective, that did happen in
44:44
this film, because there were times when subtitles would come up, but it
44:47
was just repeated English, like you know, like it was just emphasized English,
44:52
right, And I really really like that. I just I think stylistically,
44:57
it's just fun. It's just interesting. And what's makes me sad is
45:00
that this only exists on the NTSC DVD, doesn't exist on the PAL DVD,
45:07
it doesn't exist on the Blu ray, and they aren't they they're not
45:10
in the stylized version. It's just in the in the regular you know,
45:15
it's just the regular. I think they would have baked them in. It
45:19
feels like the kind of subtitles you would bake into the visual. Well no,
45:22
see that. Okay, So that's the thing, is that it is
45:24
baked in in the American version, in the NTSC version, like it is.
45:30
It is. It's not, yeah, it's it's it's hard burned.
45:34
It's hard. It's it's hard subtitles, not soft. And but that's the
45:37
problem is that when you have multi lingual additions, you can't do that for
45:40
every language. And that's the problem, and that's why it got lost.
45:45
And so you can only watch this version legally with a with a DVD an
45:51
SD and I hate that because it's it's all a money thing. It's it's
45:54
all money. It's it's a money thing. It's all it is. And
45:57
that's fine. I'm not saying like, oh my god, it's the death
45:59
of art, but it is. It's a it's a little bit of what
46:01
made this movie unique that got stripped away because of cost and how you can't
46:07
do that with every language and everything like that. And I can't wait for
46:09
the day. And we are moving closer and closer towards that where you can
46:14
make subtitles more interactive and more stylistic, where it is an actual file that
46:20
can go along with it, that it doesn't have to be baked in because
46:22
like in this movie, we even see them, you know, masked where
46:25
someone swivels their chair and their head swipes by them. You know, like
46:30
that kind of thing, and you know that that you can't do, but
46:32
someday you'll be able to do that. And yeah, I just create subtitles,
46:37
and I couldn't help but think about the beginning of my Python as truly
46:40
glorious beginning right there. Yes, yeah, the movie, yes, yes,
46:46
no really, and the firings, the people responsble. We're sacking this,
46:52
people have been said. So we've talked about the editing. We've talked
46:54
about the cinematography, we talked about the subtitles, we talked about the acting,
46:58
we talked about the story, we talked about what was, We talked
47:00
me about what worked. John, Is there anything that you think doesn't work?
47:04
Nope? In this movie, not a single thing. Nope, No,
47:07
Because I'm looking at it holistically. Right again, by the twentieth time
47:13
I watch it or something like that. I'm sure there'll be something that was
47:15
like that good you could have done that, little dude. But like as
47:17
an overall experience, look, I'll own right up to it because I know
47:21
we're rounding third, as we love to say, I'll round up to it
47:24
before before we even get to like giving the actual star ratings and everything.
47:29
But I any movie that can make me cathartically ugly cry, like Matthew McConaughey
47:36
watching his daughter's message in Interstellar. Okay, I knew as soon as you
47:40
said, Matthew McConaughey, that you were going to don't that, don't touch
47:45
it. And I don't cry just once in this movie. I cry several
47:47
times in this movie. And you know, I'm a bit of a softie.
47:51
I know, I know, I seem like I have a very tough
47:52
exterior, but inside of this body beats the heart of a romantic I got
48:00
lost, Madre. Yeah, Like, there are so many things real you
48:02
just like you know, either you get that lump or or or like it's
48:07
tearing up, you're like god. But then there are just a couple of
48:10
moments where like I can't even help it. And I know and like I
48:15
know that, like if I had an out of body experience and saw myself,
48:20
I'd be pointing at me and laughing. Right, it's it's the two
48:22
sides of the It's that's the Christopher walkin part of me, right, I
48:27
I embody both. But anything anything that can move me that deeply, I'm
48:31
not gonna mess with. That's the short version, Darren. Since I'm hosting,
48:36
how about you talk about what didn't work, if anything, and then
48:39
give me your rating and go first. I'm fine with that. I am
48:45
giving this a four. It's a super strong movie. I get. I
48:49
guess I would just if if I had to say why I'm not giving it
48:52
a five, I'd say I know. For me, there's always an aspect
48:57
of would I like, would I buy this? Or what I watch this
49:01
over and over like that's the kind of things that I need to kind of
49:05
top it to like a five out of five. And yeah, like John
49:08
said, it's a big cup of water, you know, and then John
49:12
didn't say that. John's put it way more eloquently than I did. But
49:15
yeah, it's not something I want to take in every time, especially now
49:20
in this viewing. Like I said, the last one was back in four
49:22
oh five. I have kids, now, that was a difference in watching
49:27
it from from pre kid to post kid, and there's a lot of it
49:30
that's like, I don't really want to think about my kid getting kidnapped.
49:34
Like that's gonna be in the back of your head if you're a parent while
49:37
you watch this movie. But yeah, but Denzil did great, Tony did
49:39
great. I thought it was daje vous for a second. So I'm gonna
49:43
give it four out of five stars. John, do I even need to
49:46
ask you. I'm going to give it five in honor of the five members
49:52
of the Mexico City Convention Visitors Bureau that were probably fired for agreeing to let
49:57
Tony Scott set this movie in Mexico City. Fair enough, and apparently while
50:01
they were filming in Mexico City, like several crew members got robbed at knife
50:07
and gunpoint, like they got mugged. Just I worked at an organization where
50:13
one of the guys was from Mexico and we had an office in Mexico City,
50:19
and I was talking with him and he went through the list of things
50:22
you don't do in Mexico City. And he's like, you don't go to
50:24
an ATM. Like no, He's like, you show up with the money
50:28
you have and you spend it and that's it. He's like, you don't
50:30
go to an ATM. And I was like, oh really, So I'm
50:32
not saying that's like poop on, but I'm saying, like, that doesn't
50:36
surprise me to hear that at all. Yeah, you're saying the City was
50:38
a being a method actor. Yes, the City was very dedicated to playing
50:44
its part. Yes, all right. Well, as a surprise to new
50:46
one, I'm giving it five stars as well. For all the reasons I've
50:50
already stated. I'm not going to go into it. Just re listen to
50:52
the episode and you'll hear my take. But five stars. This is one
50:55
of my favorite movies of all time. This is This is such a great
50:59
movie to rewatch. I think it's artistically well done. Everything about it,
51:01
from the cinematography to the editing, to the subtitles, to the acting,
51:06
to the emotional arc, to the story arc, to the metaphors you know,
51:09
whether they're blatant or subtle. I loved it. I love this movie
51:14
and I will watch it again many times. Well, I wish we had
51:17
more time, but we must say au revoir and figure out what we're going
51:22
to do next week. Now, speaking of French phrases, Darren, what
51:25
are we going to do next week? Well, as we're rounding to a
51:29
close on the House of Tony Scott, we're jumping two years to two thousand
51:32
and six Deja Vu, also starring Denzel Washington here on house Lights. Join
51:39
the Revolution, Join the net Polte