Latest / The Bridges and Beacons Podcast / Overwhelm is Optional with Heidi Marke

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Overwhelm is Optional with Heidi Marke · The Bridges and Beacons Podcast

• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, hello, hello, and welcome.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Here we are again with another fantastic episode.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Kelly Meyerson.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: And today I'm joined by my very good friend from across the pond, um, Heidi Mark.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: She is the gentle rebel coach, and she helps highly driven, big-hearted professionals get their life back by gently with as little effort or disruption as possible, but firmly, most definitely, rebelling against the nonsense that to have the life you've worked so hard for, you have to push through overwhelm and exhaustion.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: You don't.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Having managed to embarrassingly and painfully burn out, losing her once loved and hardworked for career, confidence, health, and financial stability whilst prioritizing her self-care.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, really, she now quietly leads the gentle rebellion.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: She is the host of the Overwhelm is Optional podcast and author of the book, Overwhelm is Optional.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Heidi is a transformational life coach who works with love and integrity.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: And she and I are going to jam on some of our favorite topics.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Heidi.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you so much for having me.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's lovely to see you.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't wait to get into this topic.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I met you a few years ago.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: I love giving a little history and background because I think that's just so much fun to know how all the dots connect.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: We connected a few years ago.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: It might have even been as far back as 2020.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I had the opportunity to come on your podcast and talk about sleep.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: I was obsessed right away with your title, Overwhelm is Optional.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, so many people, so many people are opting in to overwhelm, myself included.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: I loved reading your bio and like embarrassingly, yes, done that, right?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: So why are you obsessed with overwhelm?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, why am I obsessed with overwhelm?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because after embarrassingly imploding my life by completely unexpectedly burning out and quitting my job, and it was unexpected, even though I knew I had all the knowledge, you know, psychology degree, uh, meditation, mindfulness, or all the things.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I was practicing all the things or trying to, and that was adding to the problem, I would argue.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: So when I when I part of my healing journey of getting my confidence and my health back was looking at, okay, so what the hell happened?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because it doesn't make any sense logically, right?
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: You're told that practicing mindfulness and meditation, yoga and all this stuff, well, that will solve the problem, but it doesn't solve the problem at all.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was like, well, well, what's going on then?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I noticed the people coming to me were very overwhelmed.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: And they were saying that when they left, they were not overwhelmed.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I was just picking up on the there was a lot of talk about overwhelm.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, well, overwhelm's nothing.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's just, you know, it's like it's easy to dismiss, and everybody's overwhelmed, right?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: So then I I started looking into what had happened.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: So why would somebody who knows and was prior knows about and was prioritizing her self-care and even more embarrassingly was responsible for well well-being in the organization?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, on every aspect, it shouldn't have happened.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Why did that happen?
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I firmly place the blame for overwhelm.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Overwhelm to me is the gateway drug to burnout, to exhaustion, to all of it, because it blocks you from thinking straight and seeing what's going on.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't see what was going on.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: I knew I knew things were wrong, as in I couldn't sleep well, I was exhausted, and all of that stuff, but I I couldn't do anything about it.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: I was doing lots about it, but it wasn't solving the actual problem because I could not see.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: And with hindsight, of course, you can see.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: So if you clear the overwhelm now, you get the benefit of hindsight.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: You can see clearly, and everything changes.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: If you deal with the overwhelm first, everything changes.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: So actually, it's serious, it's not a weakness, it's not just something you have to put up with, it's really serious, and it matters because once you deal with the overwhelm, everything else gets easier.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: That is so true.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: And just for just for covering the topic, why do you think overwhelm is such a pervasive issue?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's inevitable.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a problem.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a problem, as in it's not something's gone wrong, or there's a fault with you, or you're too sensitive, or you're not resilient enough, or you're doing something wrong.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it's going to happen.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's the way our brains are set up.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: So our brains are set up, our minds are set up to be easily overwhelmed in order to keep us safe.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: And because keeping us alive is more important than keeping us happy, or being able to focus on our work, or be present with those our love.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: The most important thing is to be able to be alive.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so, therefore, our minds are designed to be on the hunt for bears or whatever it is.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: And some emails are like bears.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of what we do all day is like being surrounded by bears.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: So we're in this constant state of high alert.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: We don't understand what's happening because there isn't a real bear.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: So why is our nervous system reacting as if there's a real threat?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a real threat, and also we get very used to being in the state of high alert.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: It is how we, particularly those of us who are very driven, because it's how we get through, it's how we get that single-minded focus and the adrenaline to achieve it's what we're taught to do.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: So it's inevitable that we will be overwhelmed, and it works actually, it works very well until it doesn't.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then when it doesn't, well, then you need a rethink, right?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then you need to be optional, but there's nothing wrong, it's just it just is.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna happen.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's the way the system's designed to switch off your prefrontal cortex so you can't see straight, you can't think straight.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you have a real life-threatening situation, the last thing you need to be doing is going, Oh, I wonder what I ought to do.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you don't want to go thinking mode, right?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: You're dead.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: So we are descended from all the anxious people who had very, very highly reactive nervous systems who were easily overwhelmed.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think too, I think that piece that you said in the beginning about being so driven that uh adrenaline and cortisol will take you places.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: They will, they will work.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, speaking as someone who um when I had really bad habits in college, I would just procrastinate until the point that I was so anxious and stressed out that I could just bang out a paper in an hour and be like, it's done.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, my stomach hurt, I wasn't sleeping well, I felt stressed out.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like it just the repercussions of that kind of lifestyle really start to play out.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's no fun.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: And if you can get away with it for short periods of time where there is a real end.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, when I pushed myself to finish my degree while working and raising two kids, I could I could get away with it as a temporary thing.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then I went to Hong Kong to visit a friend and I slept 14 hour nights straight while she was at work.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, she'd come back from work and go, Did you go out and explore?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, Well, I didn't wake up till this time because I was just done.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that was a genuine end.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: The problem is we trick ourselves into believing that it's temporary, and that's the trick because overwhelm is very sneaky and it's the trickster.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it you become convinced very easily, I believe, that when this, then that, you know, when when this current busy period goes, when my child sleeps through the night, when I've moved house, when that difficult colleague leaves, when this, then that, then everything will magically fall into place.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: I won't be overwhelmed anymore, I won't be stressed, the stomach pain will ease our sleep better, everything will be okay.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not true.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's true if it's a genuine temporary thing, but in general, particularly if those of us who who got our degrees or got to where we are by doing what you've just described, it just it just is the way we are, and so it becomes this terrible trap of uh this circle where oh things have eased.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I feel a bit better.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then we instead of using that time to live and enjoy our life that we worked so hard for, we we get ourselves ready to get back into the fray, and then more and more of life becomes about preparing to go back into the fray.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: So everything's about recovery rather than living.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, everything became about how can I get through the next week at work?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: How can I do it without inconvenient tear leakage?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because that would absolutely destroy my ability to do my job.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: How can I get through it without screaming at that person who's not doing their job and is just show slopey shouldering everything onto me?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how can I get through without embarrassing myself, without becoming a whaley banshee at work, even though I was becoming that at home?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: How can I get through?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: And when all you're doing is focusing on getting through, well, you're in survival mode.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing is, there's a badge of honor with it, it's it's what everyone does, you know?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: And when I started to question things, people say, but that's just the way things are, Heidi.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: So everybody around me was doing the same thing, and it was actually expected.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: And if at any point you started to show signs of not having that level of stress, it was like, Well, are you doing your job?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Are you working hard enough?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: What's wrong with you?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: You're weird, like you be you don't care enough, you're you're becoming lazy, you know.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Did you really do that?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very, it's a very tricky thing.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it is the way things are, unfortunately.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Although not over here in the gentle rebellion.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Not over in the gentle rebellion, I know.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I so much of that resonates.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's really a public health crisis.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just call it out for what it is, and it's at the heart of so much of the loss of health and well-being of the general population, in particular individuals like working moms who end up shouldering so much more that like it's just like you said, people are like, well, this is just what it is.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: So we're just gonna do this, but it's it's not living.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then I completely relate to the idea that you push and push and push, and then you're like, Well, now I have to sleep for a week, 14 hours a night, so I can just catch up and feel functional.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: So bring us into your your rebellion.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: What are what are we gonna do differently?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: How can people change like starting now?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, we can't convince the world all at once, maybe one person at a time.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I I mean, I broke myself trying to convince the world.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I tried to change the system from the inside, and I really don't recommend that.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what I would do instead is is just hear these words.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: There is nothing wrong with you.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: You are perfect and a work in progress.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: And the work is to let go of the idea that there's something fundamentally wrong with you.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: There isn't.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's just overwhelm, and overwhelm is optional.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that doesn't sound like much.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it sounds good when I say it.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: I know there's nothing wrong with you.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: But the the truth is, I spent years thinking there was something fundamentally wrong with me, and if I could solve the problem of myself, everything would magically sort itself out.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to quit my career, I didn't want to quit my all of the full beautiful things I'd created in my life.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted my life back and I wanted to get to be myself.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought that I had to change myself in order to cope better, to be more resilient.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I needed to be fitter.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: So the first step for me is stop treating yourself as if there's something wrong with you because there isn't.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Then what you can do is look at the overwhelm and all the symptoms and signs that we've been talking about as just useful information.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I call this neutrally noticing.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Completely neutrally everything that's going on and decide that it's just useful information.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: That there is no problem to be solved.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: And from there, well, first of all, notice what's going on as I say these words because if they're resonating and you're starting to feel like, ah, oh, and you can if you can get out of your head into your body, you may even start to feel the cells in your body starting to stop spinning.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then everything changes because then you get your energy back, you get your clarity back, you can rest, you can sleep.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't become such a big deal to sleep, it doesn't become such hard work to set everything up so you can get the sleep.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's not about catching up.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it also, also, I would argue that if we if we take this further into rest and sleep, ideally what we're looking for is creating a life where if we have one bad night's sleep, nothing terrible happens because we've set our life up for us rather than trying to squeeze ourselves into a life that doesn't work for us, where it's absolutely essential that we get a good night's sleep, otherwise we go insane.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's the wrong way round.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: Let's turn it on its head, let's question.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, not question.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: See, this is the thing about the gender rebellion.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to change the whole world and the whole system, you're gonna do a lot of questioning and find no answers, and you're gonna have to stamp your feet and make a stand.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if you're already knackered, seriously, give yourself a break.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: The gender rebellion is taking a rebellious stand, but it's secret, it's personal, you don't need to tell anyone, just do it all inside.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's an inside-out job, anyway.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: We know this, everything's an inside-out job.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: Try it is easier to change how you view things and to start being on your own side than it is to start changing your workplace.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's yes, that is absolutely a fact.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it makes me think about a a couple of years ago, I kind of just felt this calling to take a break, and I didn't question it and I didn't make a big deal about it.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: I just like was like, okay, I'm I'm gonna take a break and I'll just see what happens.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: And what happened was I liked it so much that I kept extending how long I was taking that break.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I don't want to add anything else on my plate.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was like, what else is coming off of my plate?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: And suddenly it created all this spaciousness that when I felt ready to not be cocooned and taking a break and taking care of myself as like my top priority, then it was so much easier to decide what mattered and what didn't.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: I was able to be selective and say, all right, I love this space that I've put around myself.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm only willing to put a little bit in and a little bit in and not overwhelm myself by letting everything in because I know I've done that experience before.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: So what you did there is reset your nervous system, get out of overwhelm, get clarity, work out your non-negotiables, your values, what matters most to you.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a changeable thing because we go through different seasons of our life and seasons of the year.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there wasn't there isn't one right answer for all time and for all people.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's really important to hear.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it is that constant dialogue.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: What do I need to feel whole?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: What do I need to feel well?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: What are my non-negotiables?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just start at the beginning.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: And to do that, you need to get out of your head, you need to clear the overwhelm.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't have to be as drastic as burning out in my case or taking a break in your case.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: There are easier ways to do it, and that's that's primarily what I do is work with people who don't or can't, you know, or refuse to refuse to burn out.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it's pre-burnout in general, and it's free.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: I work in a way that doesn't create wild disruption for people who want to keep their hard-won professional respect, who want to keep the work, even if later they change it.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if even if later they decide, no, I'm gonna take a break.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: But at the time they're in it's an emergency and they want something that fits into the busyness, into the madness, and works with them as they create this space for themselves.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: And what's interesting about space to me is uh when you're in overwhelm, in fact, I would say that one of my definitions of overwhelm, or one of the clearest signs, is when you think you've only got two equally rubbish options, which in my case was stay and I don't know, have a breakdown at work or quit, you know, and that to me is is a very clear sign that that's overwhelm because in actual fact, and with hindsight, I can now see there were a lot of other options, but I had no idea they existed.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: And the interesting thing to me about space is even sometimes even when we think we've got space, we haven't.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when you bargain for some time to yourself and then your mind is flooded and overwhelmed by the guilt, the all of the things you ought to be doing, and then you're not really present in the space.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, what I like to do is help people create space in the moment in the busyness, so that you get the space within the busyness, so that later you can decide to do what you you've done, which is start creating a life you feel at home in.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, space is an interesting one to me.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: It is literal, literal, figurative, and head space.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is such a hard thing for so many of us who are so driven and going a hundred miles an hour all day long.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: And they're when I what I find with people is the people who have these very busy brains, when they go to lay down and go to sleep, their mind is just going a mile a minute because they literally haven't stopped all day.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: And their brains is still teeming with ideas and to-do lists and thoughts and challenges, and it's all just circulating around.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it really is such a huge interruption of sleep.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said before, in that state where your mind is going a mile a minute, you are so many light years away from being in a nice calm state in your nervous system to be able to fall asleep.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's reminded me of a client who went through my program get your life back.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then she sent me a graph because she she was a research scientist at the time.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: So she I loved the way she geeked out and everything.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: She sent me a graph of sleep before working with Heidi, sleep after working with Heidi.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't work directly with sleep, you know.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not like you you specialize in sleep.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, but a side effect appears to be the ability to switch off.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I would expect a side effect to be, because I aim for the ability to switch from kick-ass focus to being present with those you love and being able to sleep.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: I s I do very seriously focus on where your attention is and how to switch states, but I don't specifically work with solving sleep problems.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: So that was a beautiful thing for me.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what I've worked it out to be is when you become very aware of your nervous system and and when it's activated and you learn to notice that it will reset itself.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: So allowing space, just moments in your day, one minute.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: I have an audio, free audio, the one minute mark, which people often use between meetings or something like that.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's just one minute that tends to, but not on purpose, because we're not trying to achieve anything.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is really important.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: It practices the not being in constant trying to control and achieve, it's just an allowing.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: So you just listen to it without trying to do anything, but it tends to reset the nervous system.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: And in doing that, you tend to let go of patterns of held tension and you tend to get out of your head and you tend to become separate from your thoughts rather than living in them.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: And the more you do that, it just becomes this practice of, oh, now I know what it's like.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: I know what it's like.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's the recognition of this is what it feels like to be calm, this is what it feels like to feel at ease, this is what it feels like out of overwhelm.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: And the more you practice that, the easier it becomes because it just becomes, oh, this is who I am now.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm no longer available to stay in that pushy state because it doesn't work for me.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's well, I can see that it's worked in many ways up to now, but it doesn't work, it's not me anymore, it's not what I want.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't want to quit.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: I still want a full life.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: So therefore, this is what I choose now.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it's that recognition and also teaching the body what it's like to rest, to let go, to allow every cell in the body to settle and to notice the settling.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: I find very, very both very interesting and really helpful because if you can notice the body settling, you're drawing your attention away from the thought bombs and the fake emergencies that wake you at 4 a.m.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: or keep you awake into your body and notice the settling.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Notice the gratitude in your body when you allow it to rest.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: Notice the softness of the mattress, the coolness of the pillow.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: If you have a cool pillow, I have a pillow that has like this cool fabric and it's so good.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, just noticing without trying to sleep, without trying to rest, without trying to switch your brain off, just noticing.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, this feels nice.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: I like this.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: The body's body will draw you into the deliciousness of it's so nice to stop.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: I love that so much for people.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that's so huge.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of it is being able to get out of your head and into your body.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I talk a lot about that in terms of, you know, using your senses, like you said, like the cool soft pillow, the the comfy sheets, a smell, whatever it is that kind of triggers you to get more into awareness, into your body, and less existing in your head.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think I existed in my head probably my whole life until I was like 40.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was like, oh, there's the whole rest of a body here.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: Let's get down into her a little bit.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's so fantastic.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the other thing that I've found has made a huge difference for me is um setting some intentions to bookend sleep with rest.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Rest in the evening and rest in the morning before I get into anything else.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that space has been huge.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I've I've gone into this like first, it was just like that half hour before bedtime, having a nice routine and like waking up and not grabbing my phone right away, but maybe having my cup of coffee to like really, how far can I take this?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how many hours out of the day can I be like either sleeping or resting?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it just became so much fun to play in that potential and to realize when I really committed to that level of well-being, of rest and sleep, I suddenly just felt like myself.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think you even said it like coming home to yourself.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: I felt like myself, I felt calm, I felt purposeful, I felt more capable of noticing, like you said, being aware of those triggers for me that would put me into that instant, you know, fight or flight overwhelmed state.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: And either noticing the triggers more or just avoiding them entirely and being like, I know that that's something that's gonna trigger me.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I automatically very easily can say no to that.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's not something I want to do.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I I use the word I will be unsubscribing from that kind of thing forever.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: Unsubscribe, unsubscribe, unsubscribe.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's really, I find it also really interesting that I've noticed a cumulative effect now.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, two years ago, one of my business goals was you know, my business makes enough excess money that I can take up going to spas as a hobby, you know.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: So to me, it was like, oh, how dreamy would that be?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: How wonderful would that be to go and have a massage and sit in a sauna once a month?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: That would be amazing.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: And what I've actually realized now is that I just don't crave all of the things.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's nice, but I don't, it's not a need anymore.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's gone from a need to a nice to have.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's really interesting.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't crave all of the things that were the luxury things that you know, my previous career would were just like essential to get me through.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: So massage, maybe reflexology, you know, some sort of bod, um, meditation retreats, spa days, spa weekends, you know, like the craving of them, the booking of them, the prioritizing, anything like that is essential in order to survive.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's just I just noticed very that it's just becoming not relevant.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm fascinated by it, and it is to do with what you're saying there, I think.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: The whole um I this probably make you laugh.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm 56 and I'm actually a granny now, and I still wake up in the morning and go, oh my god, I'm lying in bed and reading for a bit with my coffee because I still appreciate not being woken up by small children.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like the so those years of not having sleep as a young mother are still giving me this like joy of oh my god, it's so nice to to wake up and not be interrupted by small people or demands and to create that space for myself early in the morning that's mine.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that, and it's it is that it is that creation of space and the the deliberate.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: I love slow mornings.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not available for for that jerking myself awake in order to force myself into kick-ass mode.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just not available for it.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now I know not everybody can do that because if you're employed, it's different, but that's just me.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: I just like the the rewards are too great from my slow mornings, and there's never a morning I wake up and think, nah, not today.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's just too good.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's just yeah, that's a non-negotiable, and not because I need it in order to be okay, that's what switches when you when you learn to move from um either surfing the verge of burnout or burning out, when you heal away from that, that's what changes.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: Things move from a need to a nice to have in many, many ways.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because you what you discover is if there is a time when you get overwhelmed or work too hard, or you know, you recover.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: The recovery's fast because, well, first of all, you're you're not going to push through it anymore because you're just not available, which means you have to get curious and find an alternative way, but it just you just have that resilience, that that wellness resilience of everything's okay.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: I you know, if I have a a night when maybe I don't sleep, like I can hear myself telling myself, it's okay.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: You're you don't exist in the world of five to eight years ago, everything's okay.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: You it won't affect your day.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then I make an intention that it no longer affects my day.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that's quite interesting.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I relate to that so much.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Funny enough, last night my my sweet little angel of a Kabapoo puppy um decided that she needed to go outside at midnight and one and three.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I just I was like, okay, this is the kind of night of sleep I'm gonna get.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: But like you said, my I have very strong boundaries around sleep.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I know it's gonna be okay.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: Even if it's a bad night of sleep, I'm still gonna be functional tomorrow.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's not gonna take me over the edge.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna be edgy and frustrated and angry.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: I just realized, you know what, right now she needs me to be available to care for her in the way that she needs.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I I literally sat there at one o'clock in the morning, sitting on my steps outside, watching her wander around the yard.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought to myself, you know, it's such a great analogy of taking care of ourselves that we get really annoyed at ourselves sometimes, like, oh, it's so annoying that I need to eat again.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's so annoying that I need to take a break.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, especially when we get really into something.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I was thinking to myself, you know, I'm thinking, oh, this is so irritating that she needs to go out right now.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was like, you know what?
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm responsible for her.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: She she doesn't have the capability of taking care of herself.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: She needs me to help her.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the same for me.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: I need to take care of me.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, if I could extend that kindness to her, I can extend it to me.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: And the next time that I have a need that is inconvenient in the moment, again saying, you know what?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: I deserve to take care of myself the way I need right now.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that's okay.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I would argue it's more than okay.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's time we rebelled against this whole, you know, as if there's some, you know, you hear it all the time, self-care is not selfish.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I just think, no, we've got to go beyond that.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's not enough for me.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's got to be more than that.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because, for example, it depends what kind of person you are, but I I want I'm pretty demanding out of life.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: I want a lot, and to have a lot, I've learned very late in life that my number one responsibility is to look after myself, and that that's fundamental.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: So if I want a lot, if I want that real strong focus so I can kick ass at work, and I want to do all of the myriad of other things I want, then I have to take care of myself.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: There's no choice in that.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a very high-performance choice to do what we're up to, so therefore, that requires some really serious body care and mind care, and the two go together, I believe.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: But but but I always think of athletes, you know, athletes have no choice, they have to rest, it's part of their routine.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, well, I don't know.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: That works for me.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: I need to rest.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: I function really well when I rest, so more rest, please.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: Or not more rest, but just um rest not being a something I need to justify.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: Now that doesn't mean I've always got it off to a fine art, but there's nobody around me who would argue, it would only be my mind, saying, you know, oh no, you shouldn't be resting, you need to finish something.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of I find there's a lot of um push-pull between the need to finish something, even though most things are kind of unfinishable, you know.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I had that this morning.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: I caught myself this morning procrastinating because I had this thing I wanted to do in August, and it's you know, it's coming to the end of the month, and I like to, it's nice to have that kind of time frame around something.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then I I was like, why am I procrastinating about finishing it?
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's only I tried to make it small in my head, it's no big deal, it's easy to do.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then I realized it's because actually what I was trying to do was a very big thing, and that was actually much deeper and needed some deeper thought, and that's why I was procrastinating.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: So once I switched from the what's wrong with me, um, why am I walking away from something I really wanted to finish, you know, doing the catching the judgment, I was then able to switch into, well, that's interesting.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm procrastinating.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: What's that about?
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then I discovered it's because actually it's a big project.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: So now I've instead of trying to finish it because it wasn't finishable for August, I've created it as the main very big project for September, which is now really exciting.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: But that's where I I don't know about you, but that's where I get the you shouldn't be resting.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it's me, it's the tyrannical Heidi mind that's causing the issue now.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it it used to come from out more outside influences, but no, not now.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's all me.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm perfectly aware of that.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's that, yep, same.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: I feel the same way.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: And very, very recently, something similar, looking at something that I thought was going to be this like quick thing that became a bigger thing, and then I was procrastinating the thing.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then realizing, no, this is just a creative opportunity.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: This is not a this is not a to-do a task like running a load of laundry.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: This is something that requires me to get into my creative headspace.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: And when I'm in that, like you didn't do this, you didn't do that headspace, I'm not creative.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, my frontal lobe is completely turned off, and I'm just stuck in all of those old loops that play.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I I love that you said that because that you've had so many gems today, you know, from just moving to a space of awareness, not changing anything, but just changing to awareness, taking a quick neurological break, you know, something like your one-minute mark where you can just get into your body and then you feel ready to look at options and not feel like you're stuck with this one thing that you're completely dreading.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then just this idea of when you've rested enough, you've really given your body what it needs.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: Suddenly, you're not craving these experiences that give you such high amounts of dopamine that you feel like, finally, I get something, finally, I've been waiting for this, and it becomes something nice, something to enjoy.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh, and also I love the idea of I get to choose the morning that works for me.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: And if that morning is reading and drinking coffee in bed, so be it.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: It is not laziness, it is intentional rest and mental preparation for the day.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I think those are all such huge potential wins for somebody who is listening and feeling that sense of overwhelm.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: We're going into the school year.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: So moms and dads everywhere prepping their children to go back to school are feeling that overwhelm of the fall schedule.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think these are some great things.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: Any final one piece of advice for someone who's listening who is just really into all these things you said, one more thing that they could apply or subtract from their life.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, there is no magic bot of ease at the end of your to-do list.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that is both uh bad news when you first hear it, because you think, oh but it's also good news because the ease you seek is always available.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: The overwhelm and the ease coexist.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: What you need to do is move your attention purposely and intentionally and with practice, and practice is not about perfection, it's just about recommitting in every moment and saying, I'm gonna make overwhelm optional.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna deliberately move my attention into my body, I'm gonna deliberately move my attention and seek out the ease already.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: So my thing is always to notice the overwhelm that you're trying to push through to get things done and invite yourself to spend just a moment getting out of your head into your body, allow the overwhelm to settle, a bit like a snow globe, and then find some clarity before you start.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: And the more you do that, the easier it gets.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just a practice, you can't get it wrong.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: I I love that so much.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: And we will have Heidi's one-minute mark in the show notes, so you can absolutely use that as your nervous system reset to get back into your body to choose no thank you, overwhelm.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'm so grateful for you, Heidi.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm grateful for your rebellion and what you're doing for people everywhere, and mostly for me, because I feel this is like a masterclass and how to just stop the overwhelm and really live a life now without having to do any great amount of anything.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to quit your job, you don't have to move, you don't have to divorce your person.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like you just have to choose that overwhelm is optional.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I choose no thank you.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for being here today.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I encourage everybody to follow Heidi.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, check out the Overwhelm is optional podcast and her book.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then uh come on back and leave us a little note on this episode and let us know what really landed with you and and what is working, especially as we go into what could potentially be a busy and uh invitation of overwhelm in September.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: So let's see how many of us can say overwhelm is optional and I opt out.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you, Heidi, and I hope everyone has a great and restful day.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's been really nice.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: Take care.