Latest / Founder Mode / From Flight Deck to Front Line with Max Trescott

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From Flight Deck to Front Line with Max Trescott · Founder Mode

• 0:00
  The wonderful thing about flying is that the normal daily stress
• 0:03
  is just completely disappear for the couple hours that you're up
• 0:05
  here at because you're you're focused, you're busy enough, but
• 0:09
  it's incredibly enjoyable. You kind of need to flow.
• 0:11
  It's just a marvelous type of occurrence.
• 0:14
  By contrast, if you have way too many stresses, you know, you've
• 0:18
  got some of the life, you know, kind of things going on,
• 0:21
  changing job or divorce or any of those major kinds of things.
• 0:25
  That's not the time to go flying because too much stress that you
• 0:29
  won't focus. But things that you need to do.
• 0:46
  Nice, welcome to founder mode. What are we?
• 0:48
  How do we go with the day? What's happening right now?
• 0:50
  Just heading up to Monterey. Girl, girl, easy day.
• 0:54
  Going to a Hampton event. We're going to race cars
• 0:57
  tomorrow. F1 cars holds up, friend.
• 1:00
  They're formula cars. I don't know if they're F1.
• 1:02
  All right, all right. They're formula cars.
• 1:04
  They're. If F1 cars.
• 1:05
  It's like F0. It's like I think if the numbers
• 1:08
  go up for the slower the cars, you know F. 2F3F.
• 1:11
  Seven they Yeah, they're not as fast as like, what?
• 1:13
  Hamilton's driving for sure 'cause I don't think I want to
• 1:16
  die. I don't, yeah.
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  And I figured they'd speed limited anyways.
• 1:19
  But we're flying in this plane, we're in a, we're in a vision
• 1:22
  jet on our way to to this event. And we've been wanting to do
• 1:28
  this for a while. This is like you're like making
• 1:31
  a podcast in your jet. Finally, finally got it.
• 1:33
  And then of course, we got our special guest, but also most
• 1:36
  important player Max Trescott. Back.
• 1:51
  Our copilot man with how many hours in the jet?
• 1:55
  Oh man, 1000 on the in the jet. Probably about over 12,000 total
• 2:00
  aircraft. Let's go for the non plane
• 2:02
  people listening hours is like how good you are at flying
• 2:06
  things so. It's just a, it's AI wouldn't
• 2:08
  know if good if that necessarily.
• 2:09
  It's it's a collection of experience and the idea is that
• 2:12
  over experience, you've collected goodness.
• 2:15
  So I think it definitely is correlated.
• 2:17
  The transitive property applies that based on what you just said
• 2:19
  so you how good you are good goodness.
• 2:22
  I but I'm excited because I enjoy getting your Princess back
• 2:27
  here while you 2 captain this ship and and you know, Kevin,
• 2:32
  I've been wanting to ask you this forever, which is like, I
• 2:36
  know your your story growing up on a farm.
• 2:38
  Yeah. And then like, oh, maybe I'll be
• 2:40
  like in a near him build airplanes.
• 2:42
  Oh wait, that's going to take 20 years to build.
• 2:44
  One plane. Yeah, so I'll go.
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  I'll go workout software and stuff I had, but then it all
• 2:48
  kind of came full circle for you.
• 2:50
  You sell complete to Microsoft. When did you like?
• 2:54
  When did you start getting hours and start flying?
• 2:56
  I actually got my pilot's license at college.
• 2:58
  Oh really? 98?
• 2:59
  Yeah, I've had it for over 25 years, not 27 years of and flew
• 3:04
  a 172 and then flew my dad. Yes, that's the 182.
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  And then my dad had a 182 that I brought down to Van Nuys and
• 3:10
  actually kept at Van Nuys. When you're at UCLA.
• 3:13
  At UCLA, Yep and had probably 100 or so hours before I left LA
• 3:17
  and then the Bay Area and started flying up there and then
• 3:21
  took like a 10 year break and then met Max and then started
• 3:25
  flying in Cirrus Sr. 20s Sr. 20 twos.
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  Max helped me get my instrument rating, commercial rating, and
• 3:32
  then randomly the place that we finished the commercial rating
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  at had a Vision jet for rent. And so Max blew up there and
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  then we blew it, my wife and I, for the first time from there to
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  Jackson Hole. Not a bad place to land.
• 3:45
  Not a bad place to land, great first trip.
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  And at that point I was like, man, I want to get, I want to
• 3:50
  get in. There.
• 3:52
  How long until you ended up getting it with?
• 3:56
  About a year later, about a year later or so.
• 3:58
  So this is roughly coming up on year end of year 2, yeah.
• 4:02
  It's but I've had, I've had the pleasure of being a passenger a
• 4:06
  few Times Now and I can say that back said this actually as we
• 4:10
  were, as we were taking off. You know, it's just really hard
• 4:14
  to get used to. It's, you know, you really
• 4:16
  struggle to to acclimate to the to the the funny with a jet.
• 4:22
  It's a good view. I think they say though you got
• 4:25
  to have friends with planes and boats, don't own them yourself.
• 4:28
  Yeah, boat friends and plane friends.
• 4:29
  Yeah, I've heard the same. What you and you experienced
• 4:32
  that first hand this year that the jet was down for a while?
• 4:34
  Yeah, I definitely could have used another friend in summer
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  for with an with an extra jet. And so I think there's some
• 4:40
  englings that I might have an angle to get a second one or
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  have access to a second one, which would be pretty
• 4:44
  interesting. You've got the bug.
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  You're addicted. Yeah, I definitely like having
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  the access. So I think, I think there is a
• 4:50
  there's an analogy here to to founders and founder mode and
• 4:54
  like what it take to get like up in the air and do it well and
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  fly like people always say, oh, we're changing, you know, we're
• 5:02
  working on the engines with planes in the air.
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  I feel like that analogy is very tired and I'll make zero sense
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  like you. Can't do that literally.
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  Impossible, right? So like when you think about
• 5:11
  flying and all the work that it took to get a pies, like back in
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  the day when you're in college and then all the hours you put
• 5:16
  in to get into this thing, you know, what's the what's the
• 5:19
  corollary? What's the real analogy to like
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  building building companies building.
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  Yeah. I.
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  Think there's two that come to mind.
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  A lot for me at least, is 1. It takes a lot of effort, but
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  it's actually not quote UN quote hard.
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  It's just a lot of effort. There's a lot of things in
• 5:31
  business where you just have to do the things and there's a long
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  list of things to go do and line airplanes is much like that.
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  Things to learn, things to practice, things to, you know,
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  kind of, you know, through each individual is not necessarily
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  quote UN quote hard. It just takes practice and some
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  are trickier for people than others.
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  I think that's kind of 1. And then the other one is this
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  checklist. I mean, you'll see us when
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  flying, like we're constantly working through these checklists
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  on the screen of like things to go do.
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  And this is like the list. And you're like, it's the same
• 5:59
  list every time, you know, hundreds of hours, you're sort
• 6:01
  of following the same list. But the idea is people forget
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  things and you know, sort of SO PS or policies or procedures or
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  it's just incredible having this sort of like checks and balances
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  thing and. Like, you know, like you know,
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  the way you compartmentalize it just now I think about like,
• 6:15
  well, you've got your, your product team, you've got your,
• 6:18
  got your marketing team, you got people kind of doing things
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  where in the case of founders, like you are all of those teams
• 6:22
  when you start out. And so you like learning each
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  piece of how the plane worked and all?
• 6:26
  That was. In the process.
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  But I'm curious. Max, like Max, has been doing
• 6:29
  this for a lot longer. Like, you know what, 50 years
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  now. Yep, indeed.
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  You know, I think there's a a third element as well that ties
• 6:35
  the two together. And that is in both cases,
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  you're working in a highly dynamic environment.
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  Things are constantly changing. So on an aircraft, things are
• 6:42
  going to be different today than they were yesterday.
• 6:44
  I've been flying for 50 years. I still see new stuff that I've
• 6:47
  never seen. For now, I think a business,
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  same thing, right? What worked yesterday may not
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  work. Wow.
• 6:52
  Yeah, constantly changing. That's a great point.
• 6:55
  Yeah, No, it's and it's cool because you're doing the same
• 6:57
  thing, flying the same plane in the same way.
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  Yet this trip to John Wayne was different for sure than the one
• 7:03
  coming in the way they routed me.
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  And even though I filed the same flight plan, filed the same
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  path, like everything changes. Well then tomorrow night you get
• 7:09
  to do the night, the night take off.
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  It'll be good. We'll get some night footage on
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  the way down the. Other thing that I'm thinking
• 7:14
  about is like, OK, and I don't like to talk about this while
• 7:17
  we're in the air, but something goes wrong, yeah, something's
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  wrong. And now you have a checklist you
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  have to run down to figure out what's wrong.
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  If you don't know and manage a, you know, a situation that's
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  you're bounce to feet in the air, right?
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  So that also I feel like has similarity.
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  Running a company. Like stuff breaks all the time.
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  Hopefully stuff breaks with startups a lot more because when
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  you're mid air, right? But not good.
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  And then yeah, yeah, you want to be able to know what's that sort
• 7:40
  of way to get calm is like, hey, do the things right.
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  You know you're going to walk through it.
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  I was just to have this thing beat the pigs, right.
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  Like we, no matter what happened on the farm, good, badder and
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  different. You had to wake up every morning
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  and feed the pigs and go to night feed out of pigs.
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  And this notion of like, starting and ending every day
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  with feeding the pigs was this sort of funny moniker, but also
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  just the truth of like farming that like, there's certain
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  things you just have to do every time and knowing what those are.
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  But then the other things around that are obviously really
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  dynamic can change. So I was thinking, I think about
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  commercial or travel, we all have completely conned out the
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  safety briefing, right? And I remember the first time I
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  flew with you, you're like, hey, watch this video and like, it is
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  not a sexy, fun video. It reminded me of the flight
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  attendant up there with the deep Elm that here's what happens at
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  the air air, you know, the mass deploy.
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  But that stuff is super important because in an
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  emergency, you need to know what to do.
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  And I think in, you know, in building companies, same, same
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  thing. It's like, OK, if this breaks,
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  then what? Right.
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  And like, you know, there is much more chartered like charted
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  territory and maybe they can't mentor any.
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  No, there's not a lot of margin for error back.
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  I'd love to hear like your you're maybe one of your
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  craziest or most interesting flying airplane stories.
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  Good, good to share. It's really funny people.
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  I have a flight instructor and people are always asking me,
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  boy, people prant kill you. And the answer is I've never
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  actually really felt in a, you know, a dangerous position.
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  I think part of that's experience because I can see
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  problems coming and often I've been in ahead of time.
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  People with a less experience, they don't see see the problem
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  tell us right in front of them. That might be also true with
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  with business, right? You got experience, you can see
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  it coming a long time ahead. Yeah.
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  Yeah, I think that my sense I, you know, I immediately go to
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  like the the big things that would be scary again as a non
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  pilot, like death. So no engine failures, no like
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  crazy stuff or that stuff's happened.
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  You've just managed it, got the engine back up and running like
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  it's all good. You're not stressed in those
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  moments. Yeah, So certainly I, I upped up
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  to wondered boy, if I do have an engine failure, will I be
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  stressed? And I, I think the key is just
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  practicing the scenarios added time.
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  So I've been applying 50 years. I haven't had an engine failure.
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  I've had two time through the engine without less power than I
• 9:52
  should. But I recognize that the engine
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  failure could happen, you know, sometime.
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  That's why we kind of practice these things ahead of time so
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  that if if it happens, we we know what steps we're going to
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  follow. Kevin, do you like if, if, how,
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  if you're thinking about like the, the founders out there that
• 10:15
  are, you know, maybe in a similar position to you, They've
• 10:17
  sold the company or the company's kind of growing and
• 10:20
  successful. I know you've like hung out with
• 10:21
  other other like founders who fly, right?
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  Like what the, what's the tip for somebody who's like, I
• 10:27
  really want to get into, I want to get my pilot's license.
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  I want to like go down this road.
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  Like what should people do? What do they think about?
• 10:32
  That's a good one. And I think the biggest one that
• 10:34
  I think a lot of people miss is that you have to allocate enough
• 10:37
  time for it to do it often. And I think I've seen a lot of
• 10:39
  founders that are like, hey, I'm going to do it for a couple
• 10:41
  weeks and to take a few weeks off and do it other for a
• 10:43
  couple. And it was one thing actually,
• 10:45
  my dad told me that was like, if you're not like the reason the
• 10:48
  military can train you so quickly as you literally fly two
• 10:50
  to three times a day, you know, every day of the week.
• 10:53
  Yeah. And So what he said he's like,
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  if you're ever going to get your license, he was like, you got to
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  go every day. And so, you know, or very
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  frequently. And so I went four or five times
• 11:00
  a week because I had that time in college.
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  And so I think what I always tell people, if you're not
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  flying at least two to three times a week, once a week really
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  is not enough, man. You're forgetting too much
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  between lessons and you're not able to recapture.
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  And so and it's tough when you're working.
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  And so my thing is like, it's much better done during a
• 11:15
  sabbatical to sort of spread through these licenses where you
• 11:17
  can focus, spend your time and you're not, you know, trying to
• 11:20
  fit it in between meetings. And so finding a way to make it
• 11:23
  a regular thing when you're learning, it's pretty critical
• 11:26
  because there is just so much information that see, but Jack
• 11:29
  approaches are all curious what you've seen.
• 11:31
  Yeah. No, I think you're absolutely
• 11:32
  right. You got to be able to fly a
• 11:34
  couple of times a week at least to probably make the progress.
• 11:37
  You fly a couple times a week when you do it probably at six
• 11:39
  months. And if you fly only once a week,
• 11:42
  you know it's probably going to be more like a year.
• 11:44
  But you don't want to go to the opposite extreme.
• 11:46
  There's a very well known local medical school professor, quite
• 11:53
  famous, written lots of books and so on.
• 11:55
  Multiple people, including myself said don't do the
• 11:58
  accelerated 21 day program. He did.
• 12:01
  And then he came back and took months to get him up to the the
• 12:05
  level of standard where he could actually rent a plane from the
• 12:08
  the local fly club. So those, those you know, quick,
• 12:11
  hey, we're going to teach you in 21 days.
• 12:14
  They're they, they don't do a great job.
• 12:15
  So I would avoid those at all. And I think that's a little
• 12:17
  because the point there is different with the sense that
• 12:20
  that they're they're trying to like literally hit a date.
• 12:22
  And this is the old joke. Like when you've done business,
• 12:24
  it's like, are you date based or like output based?
• 12:27
  And you're like, the goal is to get proficient, not that they
• 12:30
  hit a date. Sure, certain people might be
• 12:32
  able to hit that date if you've done a bunch of pre work.
• 12:34
  And my actual model was interesting because I did do an
• 12:37
  accelerated program, but I did that after I did the whole year
• 12:40
  of training. So I was completely qualified
• 12:41
  ready for my test. Then I added an accelerated
• 12:44
  program and I did it, you know, I had two licenses in four days.
• 12:47
  I did an Instagram rating and a commercial in in four days.
• 12:51
  But because, you know, I'd done the prep work and spent a year
• 12:56
  essentially practicing. So I already had everything
• 12:58
  ready to go. I was sort of test ready at the.
• 13:01
  The last accelerated part was really a polishing.
• 13:03
  Try that 1690. 192. Yeah.
• 13:06
  And that works. That's very different than just
• 13:07
  doing it right. Yeah.
• 13:09
  Absolutely no, I know. Yeah.
• 13:10
  The other that being up here makes me think, you've told me a
• 13:13
  few times the process like buying a jet or kind of and that
• 13:17
  like you know, this is a big ticket for like the sales
• 13:20
  process. I know we've talked a lot in our
• 13:22
  recent episodes about selling and building a pipeline.
• 13:25
  And then you're now engineer turn turn seller sales guy
• 13:28
  market a guy Turner like talk to me about this serious process of
• 13:33
  like, oh, Kevin, you have the one jet.
• 13:35
  Like are you thinking of maybe upgrading, getting the one?
• 13:37
  You told me some funny stories. They're pretty.
• 13:39
  They're pretty credible, but the sales people are great.
• 13:42
  Like they work at Sirius and they and they but they follow
• 13:44
  you and understand like where you are on your journey and say
• 13:46
  they're always kind of there at all.
• 13:48
  For two times, like literally the week before I would fly and
• 13:50
  get my pilots license and get my typewriting for the jet.
• 13:54
  They called and said, hey, we have another one ready for you
• 13:57
  because I am on the list to get a new one.
• 13:59
  And then similarly, when this one came out of AOG after a
• 14:03
  bunch of bank and they're operative, they're like, hey,
• 14:05
  you know, future potentially thinking about, you know,
• 14:07
  upgrading, getting another one. And so it's always, it was
• 14:09
  always like sort of too serendipitous that the timing
• 14:11
  was kind of perfect. But I think that is a lot of,
• 14:15
  you know, what great sales is. It's really understanding the
• 14:17
  time at the moment it would to have that discussion and way to
• 14:19
  connect with people when they're looking to buy or looking to
• 14:22
  sort of make a danger. In, in, in marketing parlance,
• 14:24
  we we, we in marketing nerds, not aviation nerds, say, you
• 14:28
  know, it's the right message to the right, right customer at the
• 14:31
  right. Yeah, right.
• 14:32
  Like triangulating that and like understanding that life cycle.
• 14:36
  That'll make sense. This is super cool.
• 14:39
  Like I, I was, you know, we talked about these for months.
• 14:41
  We're finally doing it. What else?
• 14:43
  What else is on your mind as you're up here in the sky?
• 14:45
  You know, this little kind of jet kind of shooting across
• 14:49
  California right now on our schedule and and kind of doing
• 14:52
  it our way. You went to me.
• 14:55
  It's funny, like the, the honestly, what's on my mind up
• 14:58
  here is just kind of enjoying the ball.
• 14:59
  Like honestly, it's like less is what's on my mind that normally
• 15:01
  when I'm on the ground, I'm thinking about business and all
• 15:03
  the things. When I'm up here, normally it's
• 15:05
  just me and Max kind of chatting, looking out over the
• 15:07
  size and sort of checking on things.
• 15:09
  And that to me is like, it's just this peaceful sort of quiet
• 15:13
  moment where, you know, if we don't have Wi-Fi as you sort of
• 15:15
  beat me over many times on this point.
• 15:17
  But it turns out it's bad. I mean.
• 15:18
  It's 40. There's a good point, right?
• 15:20
  Like I remember the days where I used to get on airplanes and
• 15:22
  kind of work out my quote UN quote Outlook box and it was all
• 15:24
  you know, and I was grind through a bunch of emails
• 15:27
  without being navigate. Yeah, and.
• 15:31
  The wonderful thing about flying is that the normal daily stress
• 15:34
  is just completely disappear for the couple hours that you're up
• 15:37
  here at because you're you're focused, you're busy enough, but
• 15:40
  it's incredibly enjoyable. You kind of know the flow.
• 15:43
  It's just a marvelous type of period.
• 15:45
  By contrast, if you have way too many stresses, you know you
• 15:49
  you've got some of the light, the kind of things going on,
• 15:53
  changing job or divorce or get any of those major kinds of
• 15:56
  things. That's not the time to go flying
• 15:58
  because that's too much dress that you won't focus on.
• 16:02
  The things that you need to do. They're actually checklist for
• 16:04
  that like that walks through the steps of the things is Are you
• 16:06
  ready? Is the airplane ready or you
• 16:08
  know, is the environment set to like, Are you ready to actually
• 16:10
  have a great, you know, positive light outcome?
• 16:12
  I've. Always said that therapy, that
• 16:14
  flying is more effective and cheaper than therapy, yeah.
• 16:17
  That makes sense and it's making sounds like can be meditative,
• 16:20
  which is super cool. We joke about Kevin, you and I,
• 16:23
  and we share our sleeps worse every morning, but like the
• 16:26
  night before, I know we're going to fly.
• 16:27
  I'm always like, hey, get to bed man, I want that.
• 16:31
  You don't want, you don't want to wake up with a bad sleep
• 16:33
  score and then go fly it. You don't want your it's so it's
• 16:35
  almost like for anything where you're trusting someone's life
• 16:37
  for safety, you're like, and I want to see your sleep score
• 16:40
  before you. I get it.
• 16:40
  I'm like. Getting in the plane with the
• 16:42
  sleeping, yeah. Right.
• 16:43
  I mean, it would, I think it's a legit sort of like an airline
• 16:45
  that would actually offer that stats.
• 16:47
  It would actually probably be helpful and transparent and also
• 16:49
  came more. Yeah, I mean, exactly.
• 16:51
  And it would also be a great guard for these pilots to be
• 16:54
  like, hey, man, it was a, you know, you should have just put
• 16:56
  that light off and then, you know, called in sick, let
• 16:58
  somebody else cover it because. Yeah, yeah.
• 17:00
  And the airlines actually do have sleep factor schedule, you
• 17:04
  know, so that they can, you know, not screw pilots up and
• 17:08
  have enough hours to make things.
• 17:11
  You know to make. Them feel good when they're
• 17:15
  flying. Yep.
• 17:16
  So, Kevin, this has been a fun conversation and and one that we
• 17:21
  were both looking forward to for a while.
• 17:22
  Like if you were to try to encapsulate the experience of
• 17:26
  being a founder and a pilot and like the things you've learned
• 17:29
  and and what others should take away, what's your what's the big
• 17:32
  like heaven takeaways from this conversation?
• 17:34
  Yeah, I think make sure you have the resources before you start,
• 17:36
  right? You want to have both the time
• 17:37
  and the resources. I think a lot of people start
• 17:40
  without that, and I think that's tricky.
• 17:42
  I think the other thing is, you know, try it out first.
• 17:45
  Go to a discovery flight, go, you know, do something like you.
• 17:47
  I'll be surprised how many friends, if only they're going
• 17:49
  to go flying, they do their first flight, they're like, man,
• 17:51
  I'm never getting in that thing again.
• 17:52
  Like it's just not conducive with their body.
• 17:54
  The, you know, your sensation, you know, whatever.
• 17:58
  It's rare when it happens. And then I think, you know, a
• 18:01
  couple other big ones that we talked about was, you know,
• 18:02
  this, you know, using a checklist and following that
• 18:04
  sort of methodical way of how you do things in both good times
• 18:07
  and bad times. And then, you know, like as Max
• 18:09
  said, you know, you don't want to go too fast and you don't
• 18:11
  want to cram too many things in when you're trying to learn.
• 18:14
  But you know, the most important, like, man, enjoy the
• 18:16
  ride. Like this is for fun.
• 18:17
  Like you should be forcing yourself, stressing yourself
• 18:20
  over trying to achieve this or any other sort of thing in life.
• 18:22
  It's like the journey is part of half of it.
• 18:24
  So I think that's a a final take away.
• 18:27
  Oh, and choosing the instructor is really important you.
• 18:30
  Already got to pick a winner's self for that.
• 18:32
  Yeah. And I don't mean to make this
• 18:33
  self-serving. I'm just saying that the
• 18:35
  probably The Dirty secret and the flight training industry is
• 18:37
  that many, many, many instructors are there just long
• 18:41
  enough to build them up hours so they can move on to a different
• 18:44
  job. So there's actually some benefit
• 18:46
  to finding an instructor with some Gray hair who's been doing
• 18:49
  it for years, as opposed to it someone who's just become an
• 18:52
  instructor and a year and a half and now they'll move on to
• 18:54
  something else. It's a great point I always look
• 18:56
  for. The in the show notes, you know,
• 18:58
  do you know anybody who's like that?
• 19:00
  Yeah, exactly. I've always looked for people
• 19:01
  that's back to this point where there's both benefit that are
• 19:04
  instructors as they're sort of like that is their current
• 19:06
  career choice versus like, hey, they're constructing the, you
• 19:09
  know, move to the next level with flying, go to an airline or
• 19:12
  whatever. The only other suggestion is
• 19:14
  make sure you choose the proper podcast, right?
• 19:16
  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
• 19:17
  Gotta listen. Free.
• 19:18
  That's a great segue. Gotta.
• 19:19
  Be listening to aviation news talks but.
• 19:21
  Aviation news talks, Yeah. So Max, give us the full plug.
• 19:24
  Do the do the whole thing. What?
• 19:25
  Where can folks find you online and your podcast and all the
• 19:28
  stuff you're? Sure, aviationnewstalk.com is
• 19:31
  where we are located online of course in any podcast app.
• 19:34
  Just look for aviation news Talk weekly show focused heavily on
• 19:38
  to small airplanes. Do you have any social media
• 19:41
  Macs that can folks? Sure, everywhere.
• 19:44
  OK. What's your, what's your handle?
• 19:46
  Is it aviation news talk or do you have one for you?
• 19:48
  Yeah, you can either find it be under Mac Trust Guide or you
• 19:50
  could find it or Aviation News Talk.
• 19:52
  We will include all of that in the show notes.
• 19:56
  If you if you kind of got excited about being maybe
• 19:59
  curious AB curious ABA to the adjacent, then hopefully this
• 20:04
  episode was fun for you. Share it with friends, give us a
• 20:06
  follow like subscribe and then we could get get more founder
• 20:10
  mode to more people out there. That's it for today, guys.
• 20:12
  Because remember, in business we want to go up and to the right,
• 20:16
  but in flying we want to keep the blue side up.