Latest / The Science of Skin / Dr Whitney Bowe: Changing the face of skincare with Skin Cycling

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Dr Whitney Bowe: Changing the face of skincare with Skin Cycling · The Science of Skin

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, I'm Dr.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_03: Patty Ferris.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a board certified dermatologist, and I'm your host for this episode of Skin Care Confidential.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: If you're a returning listener, welcome back.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're new to Skin Care Confidential, we are thrilled to have you here for what I know is going to be an amazing interview.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_03: Just as a reminder, Skin Care Confidential is a podcast that I started with Dr.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_03: Ted Lane.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_03: Dr.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_03: Ted Lane and I are the co-founders and the co-directors of a skincare meeting called the Science of Skin Care Summit.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's a meeting designed to teach healthcare professionals about the science behind topical skincare.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_03: And so we thought the podcast would be a great outreach to give our interested listeners a 360 view of the skincare industry.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: So join us at this year's summit on uh September 21st through the 23rd.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_03: And we're in Austin, Texas, which is an awesome place.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm so excited that my friend Dr.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_03: Whitney Boe, who I'm gonna be speaking with today, is gonna be joining us for the meeting.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: And we are so honored to have you coming.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: I'm super excited.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: I am so thrilled.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Patty, you always, whenever you decide to, you know, to put your finger on something or you decide to touch something, it always turns to gold.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like this meeting has the most incredible reputation.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I saw the agenda and I said, how can I not come?
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was just so excited to come as an attendee.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: And when I got your incredible invitation to actually, you know, be able to speak and lecture, I jumped at the opportunity.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm counting down the days.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: I can't wait to come.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I'm I'm absolutely thrilled to just be a part of that.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_03: Thank we're we're like I said, we're so honored to have you here.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I normally do sort of a formal bio, but Whitney and I have known each other for a long time.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: I think I met you when you were shortly coming out of training.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: And everybody on the globe who's interested in skincare knows Dr.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: Whitney Bow.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_03: And you probably know her from Good Morning America, from her appearances on other TV shows.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: She's also in the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal and all kinds of um print as well as um digital media.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: And the things that I know Whitney for, and this is where I want to talk about today, is her interest in the gut-skin connection, and we're gonna talk about that.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: She then grew a monster social media group and literally has over a million followers.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's 1.3 million and counting.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_03: She started the viral trend skin cycling, which I definitely want to talk to you about.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: And now she has founded her own skincare line in case she hadn't done enough already.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_03: She started Dr.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: Whitney Bo Beauty.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm exhausted just even saying the things that I know about you.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: And you're raising a family, and you also have a full-time practice where you treat lots of celebrities.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_03: And so, first, maybe tell our audience how you got into dermatology and especially that sort of microbiome, that whole part of your education and area of interest.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think the first time that I actually spoke openly about my childhood illness was when I decided to write a book, uh, The Beauty of Dirty Skin.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it was in that sort of opening chapter that I made the decision to sort of go public with that story.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: But um a lot of people, you know, didn't know about that until until I wrote the book.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: But when I was 10 years old, um I went to the Bahamas with my family.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: It was just a nice vacation.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and we all had the conch chowder and we all got a little sick, but I got really sick.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and everyone sort of recovered.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: But when we got back home, I I really, really, really got sick to the point that I was hospitalized.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and the doctors who were treating me, they didn't know exactly what they were treating, but they assumed that it was a bacterial infection.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so, as you can imagine, you know, they gave me broad spectrum antibiotic after broad spectrum antibiotic.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: And essentially what ended up happening was that it wasn't a bacterial infection, it was a parasite that I had gotten from the conch chowder.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: And because of the antibiotic therapy, because of that broad spectrum antibiotic therapy, I actually ended up getting a riparing case of C.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: diff colitis, which um, for those of you guys who are listening, you might be aware that um C.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: diff is when uh you basically kill off your healthy microbiome, like the good bugs in your gut.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so a bad bug can sort of overgrow.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that in that case it's C diff.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, in in those days, there weren't many treatments uh for C.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: diff.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so, um, and I had a really, really bad case.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I was I was in and out of the hospital that entire year, missed a ton of school, um, and you know, was honestly just fighting for my life.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember, you know, just speaking to actually, it was a resident.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was a GI resident who, you know, had the residents tend to have a little more time.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: She sat by my bed and she was trying to explain to me, you know, in a 10-year-old like language, you know, how there's good bugs and bad bugs, and they're constantly sort of fighting a little battle in our bodies.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, having that balance is so important.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember, you know, just from that age, you know, just just wrapping my head around the fact that there was this, this balance, you know, that that there was this constant yin yin and yang and this this this microbial balance that we had to maintain and just how impactful the gut health was and our gut microbiome was and our overall health.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, thank God, you know, I I did I did uh fight it off.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: I ended up, you know, recovering.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: It took some time.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I from that point forward, I just dedicated my life to not only being healthy, but sort of achieving optimal health, you know, and thinking about the gut and how it's connected to everything that we do.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think probably the reason I was most drawn to dermatology is because my father was deaf.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I grew up in a home where we signed, we did use sign language.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: My mother was a sign language therapist.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so you know, he always taught me to see through a condition to the person behind the condition, and our home was very visual.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, everything in our we, you know, whether we were signing or like just everything that we had, like hand-painted rooms and just everything was an emphasis on the visual.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, from a very young age, I just I always loved like looking at things and the way that things looked.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I think combining my my experience as a child, my, you know, just having fighting for my health, my experience with my family, and having that kind of empathy and and and focus on the visual, I sort of landed in in the field of of dermatology and just completely fell madly in love with with every aspect of it, you know, the infectious disease side of it, the procedural side of it, uh the skin gut minds connection, all of it.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_03: Talk a little bit about that because you wrote some seminal papers on that.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I think that's a piece of you that maybe some people don't know is you really I think paved the way.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: You wrote a great paper about acne, you've written about the you know the the whole importance of the gut-brain-skin connection.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, when I was in training, you know, we we were taught that that diet did not have much of an impact on your skin.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: And that was how I was taught, right?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: I and our textbooks, our websites, you know, if if a patient comes to you and says, you know, what I'm eating is affecting my skin, we were we were basically to dismiss that as myth.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um and oftentimes, you know, write them a prescription for an antibiotic, or you know, so it was just kind of ironic.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: So you know, and and that was the scientific dogma, and it was based on a couple of of of papers that were published that you know nowadays, if you sort of look back at at you know at kind of how they were published, I don't think they would have meet met today's standards for a peer-reviewed publication.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: But at the time, we only had like two or three papers really looking like chocolate and acne.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: There were like a couple of papers, and they said, and the conclusion was diet has no impact on your skin.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I was I was just studying and sort of experiencing personally that you know what I would eat would have an impact on my skin.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then I started interacting with patients even as a med student when I was like shadowing other people and you know, I was hearing these stories where people were very convinced that you know that their nutrition, their diet was impacting their skin.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I remember at the time I I went to Dr.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: Alan Shalita because I I was training under Albert Clickman.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: He was giving a lot of our lectures, and he was one of the giants of the field, like and he was one of those people who had said the diet doesn't affect your skin.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I didn't want to go against these giants who I deeply respected, you know, but I I also was experiencing something different, you know, um, from my personal life, from what I was hearing from from patients.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember going to Dr.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: Shalita and saying to him, like, oh, I kind of want to tackle this.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, Look, my dear, if you're gonna do this, you have to do it right.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like you've gotta, you've gotta really take that deep dive and and do your research.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, even if it means translating like a bunch of different papers from you know different languages, looking outside of the field of dermatology, like really diving in.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, I've got you.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm happy to support you, but you gotta do it right.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: And we ended up, you know, publishing uh a groundbreaking paper, a landmark paper in in the JAD at the time, and it was very controversial when I first published it.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: But um I remember being invited year after year to lecture, you know, first nationally and then internationally, and just speak to this concept that the skin, the gut, and the mind were indeed connected, and there actually was mounting evidence to support that connection.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: And and at the beginning, I remember a lot of people were, you know, referen just skeptical, as doctors should be, right?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like we're all trained to be very skeptical.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: And then the more I lectured, the more the line would go out the door where people after the lecture would come and say, Do you have a handout or something that I can use to counsel my?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't have time to dive into this with my patients, but I want them to have the take-home messages that you covered today.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, it would people were much more receptive, much more open-minded, more and more people and publications followed.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: And now all the textbooks and websites have been revised.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I was awarded a presidential citation for my work contributing to the field, and I was part of the acne guidelines session where we changed, you know, some of the guidelines just to start to really to update.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and now it's amazing.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I know you've interviewed, you know, amazing experts like Peter Leo and you know, there's Raja Sivamani.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: We have so many different incredible experts now who really are paving the way in what they're calling integrative dermatology.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, my patients call me a 3D derm.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: They say that I take a 3D approach to skin health, but you know, I think the technical term for now is integrative dermatology, where where people, young minds, especially in the field of derm, are are genuinely interested in learning about the evidence behind how the skin, the gut, and the mind are connected and how we can, you know, translate that into patient care.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and and you're so right.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: It was groundbreaking at the time.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I don't even remember what year it was.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: I remember Alan Shalita, who I adored, telling me about the paper and you know, said, Patty, this is something you need to know about.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: It should be on your radar, you need to read about it.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_03: Because I, much like you, was always interested in integrative approaches and botanicals and all of those things that we know can help our patients.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: But you've always been a pioneer in a lot of those, exactly, exactly.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: But they weren't consumed, they weren't part of our curriculum.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: Nope.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: Tell tell me a little bit about the book, the consumer book, um, about the microbiome and maybe what our listeners might want to know.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's it was a great read.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, writing a book, which you know is it's a labor of love.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: What is it ever?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's a lot of it.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, it it really it takes a tremendous amount of work.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, and it's and mine, I have I have hundreds of references in the back.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, many of them are are publications that I personally published, um, and then looking at other publications to really support, you know, I think that there's there's a lot of information and a lot of theories out there about nutrition and stress and how it affects the skin, but I like to take a very evidence-based approach.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what's actually the data?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: What's the literature out there?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, in the book, I talk about things like um dairy and how it affects the skin.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, we know we know that things like skim milk and dairy milk can actually contribute to acne, um, skin milk in particular, which is very interesting.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, things like yogurt don't seem to have that same connection.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're thinking potentially the yogurt, it's maybe because it has, you know, those healthy probiotics in there.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so we I do go into prebiotics and probiotics and postbiotics in the book and the concept of, you know, using them in your diet, using them in your skincare.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then of course, you know, also talking about things like a high glycemic index.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's beautiful clinical studies showing that if you can reduce the glycemic load or glycemic index of your diet, for example, going from things like, you know, bagels and chips and cornflakes and pretzels and sour patch kits and muffins and swapping them out for things like quinoa and barley and you know, oatmeal and sweet potato, you know, other types of like lower glycemic index foods if you're craving carbs.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're not, then obviously like you know, any kind of protein, any kind of vegetable is excellent for the skin.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, but if you can actually make that switch and cut out some of those high glycemic index foods, it can actually significantly you know impact the severity of your acne.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, while when it comes to acne is multi-multifactorial, it is a lot going on.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know what?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: So hard with the younger thing.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's very hard, and it's not one thing that fixes everything, right?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like I feel like people want that one thing.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I'm always educating, you know, in women, there's a hormonal component, there's also the stress component, there's also the dietary component.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: Do I think that cutting out one food from your diet is going to clear up your skin?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: But I do think that, you know, patients do make those connections and are recognizing that you know they want to sort of get to the root of, they don't just want to band-aid, you know, they don't just want to put on a quick fix and they don't want a quick prescription.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: They they really want to think about like getting to the source, getting to the root, and thinking about long-term solutions that aren't going to potentially negatively impact their health in the long term, which you know, I think we're learning more and more that these these long-term antibiotics, you know, weren't the ideal solution, you know, for for the scan.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: No, guilty is charged.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: We all we all did it at the time.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: We all did it.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's unbelievable, but now we just yeah, it did work.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_03: It did work.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: It did work.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: And now there's so much resistance.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: And now there's multi-drug resistant organisms and it's barely working.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: And when we do work it, we have to use it, you know, with it's it's it's just not we're not living in the same landscape as we as we were, where these sort of magic bullets were were very effective, right?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so now we have to think about everything very differently now.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: Let's switch gear a little bit to skin care.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: So you've always been interested in skincare.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: You and I have been on lots of advisory boards together and spent time in boardrooms with researchers and formulators.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_03: And so how tell us a little bit about that and then maybe transitioning into the skin cycling, because that's been so popular on social media, and I'm sure everybody listening to this podcast knows about skin cycling.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: How did you get involved in that?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: My practice is very um procedural, it's very heavily aesthetic and cosmetic.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I was telling you before we started officially, you know, the podcast, we were talking behind the scenes, but I I have a pretty boutique practice.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: I treat a lot of um TV personalities, grant me award-winning musical artists, um, and I do always either holding a syringe, a laser, a device, um, and of course talking to people about their diet and their stress and taking that 3D approach.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: But one of the things that I was noticing was that, you know, a lot of my patients were asking about the skincare and what they were using in between, you know, in between appointments, how they could really optimize, you know, the procedures that we were doing, how we could space them out more, you know, get more out of them.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I was noticing that so many of my patients were taking, you know, what I call a kitchen sink approach to their skincare.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: They were just mixing, matching, layering different products, and it was leading to a lot of irritation and it wasn't really driving results.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, so I started working with my patients and thinking, you know, using my knowledge of skin biology, skin histology, you know, and and using my background um in research and just sort of understanding like how each one of these ingredients works in terms of mechanism of action and thinking like what makes sense in terms of a more streamlined protocol that's gonna be really effective but not gonna be irritating.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, I started cycling the different actives with my patients at night.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so in at night, I would have people start off with an exfoliating product, which we know is gonna dissolve away the uppermost layer of dead skin cells, sort of pave the way for enhanced penetration of the rest of your skincare routine.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: But we don't want them to overexfoliate, right?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because that was a big mistake I was seeing.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: People are using their exfoliating products twice a day and they were irritating their barrier, disrupting their barrier.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say, okay, so let's start with that.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then the next night, okay, now your skin is primed and ready.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: Let's introduce a retinoid, you know, a retinol, retinal.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then I would build in these recovery nights where we really took away any potentially irritating active and just focused on ingredients that were going to really restore the skin barrier and rebalance the skin microbiome and hydrate the skin, exactly.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then I sort of came up with these protocols and I found that this four-night cycle, this exfoliation night, retinoid night, recovery night, recovery night, and then repeat back seemed to work for most of my patients.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: But then if I had a patient with, you know, dry skin, eczema prone skin, rosacea, very sensitive skin, then we would have to sort of flex and and build in more recovery nights and sort of take out more of those active nights.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: And then if I had somebody with oily or acne-prone skin or somebody whose skin had acclimated to those powerful actives, then we could flex up, we could ramp up, we could build in more retinoid nights.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so so I developed these basic protocols, you know, and and I and I remember talking to my patients and saying, okay, well, you're gonna do this night and this night, and then you cycle back.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: And one of my patients was like, oh, skin cycling.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, it was like this little light bulb.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, that's a great term.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's a great term.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: So so I had been practicing this, you know, with my patients for, you know, almost two years before I even introduced it on social media.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and when I did start, you know, talking about it on social media, it developed this little like cult following of people who were starting to skin cycle and they were following my protocols and their skin just was transforming and they were sharing their before and afters and and they were they were responding to me in DMs and direct messages and saying, like, my skin, this has been game-changing.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like I've never seen results like this in my skin before.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: And you've got to talk to more people about this.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I just asking me all these questions about it.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, as that was happening, I was also formulating my own skincare line because I really was just deeply entrenched in like the kind of results I was seeing in my practice.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: And and I was like, okay, if we could, if, if just the strategy and the timing and the frequency of skincare can have such an impact, what if we also optimized each individual formulation?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I was working on my own formulations at the time.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I launched my skincare align, Dr.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: Whitney Boa Beauty, about a year ago.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then about two months later, skin cycling went mega viral.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: It literally took over the internet, where you know, now it has close to four billion, you know, the hashtag skin cycling is almost four billion views on TikTok.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: It was covered in the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, the Washington Post, page six.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: It was Good Morning Mary.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then it became an international phenomenon where people, all like dermatologists and experts in all different languages were talking about skin cycling.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: And it just exploded.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: And that was, it was so funny because you know, here I am.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I thought I had accomplished a lot in my career, but it wasn't until I got to the airport with my daughter and somebody came up to me and said, Oh my God, you're a doctor, Dr.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: Whitney Bo.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: I follow your skin cycling method, I follow you on TikTok, and it's changed my skin.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: And then my daughter looked at me and she was like, Mom, you're legit.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, finally, finally, and recognition of my daughter, which was so funny that like it took TikTok to like how old is she now?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_03: How old is your daughter?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: She's 11.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: She's 11.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: So of course it was right there.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: It was literally one of those moments, like when mommy was verified on TikTok, like that.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: No matter I had 40 peer-reviewed scientific publications, I had lectured internationally, I had a patent, I like I wrote a book, like mommy was on Good Morning America for 10 years, like none of that, none of that counted.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: But when when mommy was on TikTok, a TikTok sensation, like and was verified on TikTok, like all of a sudden my kid was like, I'm actually gonna listen to your advice on the YouTube people telling me what to do.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: It was adorable.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I've noticed a moment of greatness for me.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's a validation, finally, some validation, right?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_03: My kids never listen to me either if it makes you feel any better.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_03: They were tanning when they were in high school.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, you're really gonna be tanning in our backyard.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's like so good.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: I listened to you.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: My my only formal media training came from you.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I wonder, couldn't remember whether you took you did take our media training.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: I took your course.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: I took your course.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: That was the only media training.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: People are like, how did you learn about marketing and branding?
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Patty.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love that.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: It was amazing.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: It was so much.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_03: AAD did that for everybody, and that was an incredible course.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: You made it a great course, but it was a fantastic thing.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: I thought that for way too long, way too long.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_03: I taught that a long time, but it was so much fun.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't really want to give it up.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: I lectured on diet and acne for way too long.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how many times?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh my god, I'm putting myself to sleep.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: I've given this lecture so many times.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes you're like, I don't even want to hear myself talk.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_03: Can't think somebody else talk about this.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's like it goes on and on.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_03: But that's right, that media training course was fun.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's it was cold.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_03: Everything has changed so much, though.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Social media has changed everything.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's changed dramatically.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: Social media has completely changed the landscape.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I just literally just a couple of years ago, it my my my patients used to bring a magazine to the other.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: They would bring Allure in style and they would say, Oh, Dr.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: Bo, I saw you recommend this in the magazine.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: And and now and even TV, like TV appearances, broadcasts were so powerful.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: And nowadays people get so much of their news, so much of their advice through social media, you know, and and it's it's definitely become a lot more sort of uncurated, unfiltered, authentic, which which quite honestly, like I love because when I first was, you know, presenting as a professional on TV and really sort of developing my skill set, how to speak to the media, you know, I had this um sort of authoritative voice, this very matter-of-fact voice, very buttoned up, right?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: And it wasn't until TikTok that I kind of like really just had so much fun.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm not like a funny person per se.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not, you know, my you can ask my family, like I'm not the jokester.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not like a I don't dance, I'm not like the typical person on TikTok, but I did find that just the vibe there, like I I could, you know, film things that didn't have great lighting, that, you know, I didn't have any kind of fancy editing and just sort of be a little more raw, a little more honest, a little more authentic, and be a little bit more of a straight shooter in that platform.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: And it really resonated.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, this is it's just it was it was very um freeing and and really fun.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think there's it, there's tremendous potential with social media to reach so many people and empower so many people, you know.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: But there is again like so much noise too, and there's absolutely a mother, you know, with an 11-year-old, you know, I also see the impact that it can have on body image and self-esteem and sometimes positive, sometimes very, very negative.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's you know, it's it's good and bad.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's good and bad, but um, it's been wonderful for me, it's been wonderful for my brand.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I it, you know, we've got a lot of great creators, dermatologists who are creating really good content.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_03: So I hope everybody listens to the dermatologist because there's a lot of people out there who are professing authority in skincare who, as you well know, don't really know all that much.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's kind of frightening to me.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_03: Some of them have huge followings, and people believe everything they say, and I'm like, really?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: If I see one more TikTok video about how sunscreen causes cancer, oh I know.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_03: I actually just did a post on that because it just annoys me.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I saw a doctor saying it, not a dermatologist, but a physician saying that sunscreens cause cancer.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_03: I almost blew up.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it'll get a lot of views, it'll get a lot of shares, it'll get a lot of space, it'll it'll boost that person's algorithm.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it's just that's it is a shame.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: It is a shame because sometimes, you know, saying the things that are evidence-based are not quite as catching, they're not trendy.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: What makes a trend?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: A trend is something like groundbreaking, it's something like, oh my gosh, it's uh, you know, either fear-mongering or funny or you know, crazy and wild.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, oftentimes the things that like if we just you know, talking about like, you know, I talk about retinoids, and let me tell you, like, they're not new, you know, but there's a reason they've been around for so long.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like how do we see we're still using them.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: We're still using them for a reason.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: Tell me a little bit about the skincare line.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_03: I want to know some of your, I saw you launching your ask to see.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_03: So talk a little bit.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: I've been loving every minute of this.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: So we we officially launched Dr.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: What Nebo Beauty a year ago.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's been it's been fast and furious.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: We're growing um at an exponential rate, which is amazing and incredibly fulfilling.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I really made the conscious decision right at the beginning that I was like, okay, we're gonna allocate more marketing dollars and um more time, effort, resources to the RD formulation, ingredient selection, and clinical testing.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: And we're gonna prove that these products really work.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm gonna prove that they work in the kind of rigorous testing protocols that I would submit to a peer-reviewed publication, which Patty, we we are doing.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_03: So that's something we're incredibly proud of.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: So yes, we're actually and I was uh it was I was I'm working now with with medical students and I'm mentoring again because I, you know, when it comes to these, when I looked out there and I was like, what you know, when these science-backed brands that are quote unquote science-backed, when you actually look at you know the types of clinical studies that they're doing, uh most of them, the vast majority, there are exceptions, but the vast majority are doing studies that are primarily for marketing purposes.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of them are what are called consumer perception studies, meaning, you know, it's really just almost like a survey.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you give people some product to use and then you come back and say, What do you think?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think your wrinkles look better?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: The over 95% and they saw an improvement in their wrinkles, you know, and then you see these statistics are very impressive.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: So, right, exactly.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then you think, okay, would that ever be would that ever be accepted in one of our journals?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: No, like you need objective, you need measurements, you need to quantify the data, you need statistical significance.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, so we we started doing that kind of level of testing, which as you know can be incredibly expensive, incredibly time consuming.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's that's a lot of money that I'm not spending on paid ads on Facebook and influencers.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like we made the decision as a brand.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like we're gonna put our money into the into the formulation and into the clinical studies.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: And hopefully the products will speak for themselves.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: They'll work so well that people won't they won't be able to help themselves, they'll want to talk to other people about the results that they're seeing.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it it thank thank goodness that I made a good bet because it's working.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we you know, we really have had just the customer reviews have been outstanding.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: Our loyalty rates are through the roof, meaning that as soon as somebody uses a product, they keep coming back.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: They they don't want to use any other product after they start to see the results in the product.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_03: So you have a retinoid, a retin, I know.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: We have we have a retinol, so I just used retinaldehyde in our formulation.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's it's incredibly powerful, but very good.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: Everything that I formulate is really good for sensitive skin.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, of course, I have a little bias as a dermatologist.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm not including fragrance, I'm not including essential oils, you know.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's a lot of things that people use because, like, oh, it smells good.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, people are more likely to have, you know, that positive sensorial experience, even though it potentially could irritate the skin.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: Me, I'm not willing to take that risk.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so all of our formulations are are very are clinically proven incredibly effective, but also we do extensive testing in terms of making sure that they're gonna be really well tolerated, even on sensitive skin.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: And we do that as part of our clinical testing protocols where 50% of our subjects all have sensitive skin.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: And we test on every skin tone.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, good, all skin pattern.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_03: I was just gonna ask you that.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like our vitamin C, we just launched Astasy, which is Astaxanthin, combined with two of the newest forms of vitamin C, the tetrahexal desylasorbate and 3O ethylosorbic acid, and they're much more stable, much less irritating, much better for sensitive skin, combined it with astaxanthin, which is why pink flamingos are pink.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: So astaxanthin is the ingredient that's made by algae and salmon, why salmon flesh has that beautiful orange color?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's astanthin.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I love astaxanthin, and that combined with the vitamin C is incredibly powerful in this formulation.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so when when we started, you know, looking and seeing like what, you know, what kind of studies have been done on vitamin C serums that are published.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: I can't tell you how few, because we were writing up this manuscript to submit for a peer-reviewed publication.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: And in the discussion, it's always good to sort of look and see and say, like, oh, you know, we compare ourselves to the study done in 2012 by so-and-so and this study done in this population.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: There was this horrible dearth of data.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: There was this paucity of any publications on vitamin C.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I couldn't believe how little I could say.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, gosh, I guess we're the first vitamin C to test in all skin types.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I that was mind-blowing.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I can't even find another publication looking at a vitamin C topical serum that's testing in black skin.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_03: I know that's so interesting.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: They're all done.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: Well, because they're usually looking at patients with photo aging and model hyperpigments.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_03: Photo damage.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_03: And so they look at populations only, but they forget that.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: They're gonna get the best results.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, of course.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_03: But the dark-skinned patients get that hyperpigmentation.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_03: They have a totally different look, but they get photo damage too.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_03: I'm writing a review paper as we speak, and it's already overdue, but I'm finishing it up this week on retinoids, you know, the 10,000th one I've written.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_03: But I've been digging through the literature trying to find the studies on using retinoids for treating photo aging in all skin types, very few and far between.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: I had to go to companies to get, you know, find out where those papers were, but it's the same thing.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_03: We need more studies, and probably everybody needs to know that it's a huge initiative right now through the Skin of Color Society, which Susan Taylor was on with me and talked about research on darker skin.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_03: I know Susan's best, but just we need more studies that are inclusive of all skin types.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_03: So good for the city.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: We need more studies, period.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: On over-the-counter non-prescription, we need more studies, period.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: Because if if dermatologists people people come to us as dermatologists and they want expert advice on skincare.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: What should I use for this for a cleanser?
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: What should I use for a vitamin C?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: Which one should I use for my retinoid?
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: What should I use for my moisturizer?
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: And unfortunately, there's so little data.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like we like, we're we are evidence-based dermatologists.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like we like to go to the data and say, like, what's clinically proven to actually work?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: And if we don't even have that data, we don't even have those publications to go to, we're left saying, like, I don't know, this one smells good, this one's good.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: I like this one.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: I like this one.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, this one feels good.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: This rep comes to my office more than this rep does.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: This rep takes my staff out to lunch more.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I mean, that's ridiculous that that's how we're making these decisions or we're we're trying to get feedback from our patients, like, oh, you like drunk elephant or you like skin seuticals?
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like, these are, you know, it's it's nice to hear, but at the end of the day, like, we need to make evidence-based decisions.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: And if the brands aren't investing in in those kinds of studies and educating, you know, the derms, then how are the derms going to ever even know what to recommend?
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, we have to start somewhere.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: I actually uh had all these sessions I could conducted these virtual sessions where I invited the dermatology residents and I said to them, like, I want to talk to you guys about how I formulated my vitamin C serum, but and I want to answer any questions that you have.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like, this is what goes into it, and you know, this is how I do ingredient selection, and this is how I do testing for irritation and allergies, and this is how I do clinical studies, and these are the objective, these are the instruments that I use, and this is how I, you know, these are some of the studies that I did, and this is how I look at it, or this is why I chose these ingredients instead of Lisorbic acid, or this is the pH that I chose because of this reason.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like I skincare, even our dermatology residency, we don't cover skincare to the same extent.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, thank goodness you have a summit for it.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you're meeting an unmet need.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: It was like we should we should be learning more and more about that.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like that should be part of our curriculum.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: We shouldn't have to learn about that once we're in practice.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: No, we are the experts in skin biology and skin histology.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it is one of the things that residency training programs fall down on, unfortunately.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, there's so much to teach, as I always say, you know, you got to learn so many things.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I think a lot of program directors just don't quite know how to access that information.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, sort of back to the studies, one of the things that I've been talking to some of the companies about, a lot of the companies do studies, but they don't do as good a job of getting them to us as they could.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_03: And so we've been talking about how to bridge that gap so the dermatologist can actually access the data.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_03: So, like I said, when I'm writing the retinoid paper and I'm looking for skin though color studies, I couldn't find anything.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: I'm reaching out to all of the our dermatology friends, all the girlfriends who you know are know that literature like the back of their hands and they're like Patty, I don't know.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_03: But the companies actually did have some studies that they had done that were very inclusive, but they're just hard to access.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_03: So we that's a that's good for you for the city.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: There's more data on retinoids than than vitamin C.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_03: I've written chapters on vitamin C.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_03: You don't have to tell me.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_03: I like ready to go, whoa, that's so hard.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's really hard.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's a it's a place where we have very little evidence by comparison.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_03: Sheldon Pennell, of course, did all of the good work on vitamin C's the early days.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_03: And um, if it wasn't for him, we probably wouldn't even know you've putting vitamin C in a bottle.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I mean he did that groundbreaking research for that.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_03: And now, as you mentioned, we have tetrahexaldecal, we have other forms of vitamin C.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_03: And the same is true of retinoids.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of new retinoids out there which have favorable tolerability profiles, but still can be that retinoid effect.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: So just like everything else, there's always an evolution, and it's up to us as dermatologists.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_03: Changed approaching.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: That was a big deal.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: It took me a year to find because I wanted an airless pump because I wanted to maintain the potency and stability, right?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I wanted it to be refillable because I wanted it to be very sustainable and like better for the planet.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I wanted all the materials, I wanted the glass to be PIR, and I wanted the plastic to be PCR, and I wanted the refillable and airless, but also aesthetically.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was impossible to find the packaging.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like even those little, you know, little details that people don't even really think about, you know, those like that's I I think combining the performance with you know things that are really sustainable and and patients and the customers love the refills.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's I mean, that's a huge deal because they're saving money and they know they're doing something good for the planet.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: So it's sort of a win-win.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, even the packaging, especially for something like vitamin C, like it really, it really matters.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so having having the droppers is every time you're opening it up, you're potentially exposing that vitamin C to oxygen and oxidation.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, so preserving those formulations.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_03: Light and oxidation will get an antioxidant every time.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_03: Very interesting.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_03: Any uh probiotics or prebiotics or postbiotics in your line?
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so so the Boglow cream, which is it's it's out of stock again.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: We literally can't keep it on the shelf.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's sold out so many times, and we keep getting it back uh as quickly as we can.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: But it's our top-selling, it's our hero product as my moisturizing cream.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's meant for morning and evening, um, and it has prebiotics, postbiotics, and we actually did next generation sequencing technology.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I actually partnered with, you know, some of the most brilliant PhDs um in the field of of microbiology that really think about, you know, I remember I did like biotech research way back at Yale.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I remember running like gel electrophoresis, and we've come so far, you know, in terms of yeah, especially like look looking at in vivo analysis of how a topical skincare product can actually affect your microbiome on your skin.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and so we actually partnered, you know, with these PhDs and did this very extend, very extensive studies.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: Again, like this is just another one we're working on publishing now to look at how it's gonna impact um the you know the the balance of the microbiome on the skin and how you know you can potentially you know combat dysbiosis, break up some biofilms and rebalance not only the bacterial microbiome, but also you know, the the fungal microbiome, which a lot of people don't realize as well plays a role.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, so those are we have done that um in for in terms of bogro.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_02: And then Bogro is my pomegranate elixir.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, we actually develop um what I call inner skincare, which is skincare that you ingest.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um Bogro is a pomegranate-flavored um blend of polyphenols that actually has it's got they've got prebiotic-like effects, meaning that they do shift the microbiome in your gut um in order to restore the health of your skin.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: And we did beautiful clinical studies um pairing that with Boglow.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: So the the you add a couple droppers of the elixir into water, you sip it every day, and then you uh apply the the cream to the skin.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: And we actually studied each one individually and then together and found a synergistic effect in terms of it can repair the skin barrier in one hour.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: And we also have these beautiful, you know, studies showing that it that it increases the diversity and health of the microbiome on the skin.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so a lot of people who are worried about using moisturizers, they're worried about breaking out, they're worried about it being too occlusive.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: So you get this like rich hydration, you know, but without any of the breakouts.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: And it's because we're seeing this impact on the C acnes and what it's doing, you know, to the different populations on the skin, which is fascinating.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm sure and we're seeing that it's actually more beneficial to take that inside out, outside in approach, you know, as opposed to just using the skincare alone, um, which is something that, you know, something that that I just I've always believed in and wanted to develop like you know actionable steps.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, diet first.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, believe me, this is I don't want anybody to take Bogro and not eat fruits and vegetables.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not instead of a healthy diet, but you know, it definitely can help supplement, you know, a healthy diet and sort of take your skin to the next level.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_03: So interesting.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_03: So you've sort of stayed true to yourself and to your area of interest all the way through.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, as well as my North Star.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_03: And what woven that thread together?
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: I've always been passionate about that three-dimensional approach that's going to touch everything that I do.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's something that I deeply believe in and taking it, you know, in an evidence-based, clinically proven direction.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I won't ever, our integrity is the most important thing, right?
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's what sets me apart from all the celebrity skincare brands out there.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why would someone buy a Dr.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_02: Whitney Bo beauty product instead of, you know, some kind of a beautiful celebrity?
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's because they trust that I've done a lot of homework, you know, and I'm putting like thousands of data points into each one of these bottles.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, so so yeah, so we've we've got to have those internal standards um and we set them ourselves.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, that's that's what makes it fun.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it's the it's the icing on the cake.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's a nice have.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to have it, but I won't, I won't put something out there unless it has it.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_03: I know you won't.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so proud of you, Whitney.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_03: What a great career you've had and all your accomplishments.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_03: I've already kept you longer than I said I would.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm gonna let you go.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna tell everybody, I know you're gonna love this episode.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_03: I've really enjoyed talking to you.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_03: I hope uh for any of our listeners who are enjoying Skincare Confidential, that they'll subscribe to our podcast and be able to hear incredible key opinion leaders like Dr.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_03: Whitney Bo talk about the real science behind topical skincare.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_03: And this is what jazzes the both of us up.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I think where we bonded at some point was our interest in this.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_03: So everybody have a great day.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_03: Whitney, thank you so much for your time.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_03: I'm honored to have you, and I look forward to seeing you in Austin.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_03: Bring your cowboy boots.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: Can't wait to see you in person and give you a big hug.