Latest / nondriver / Nazanine Heydarian on Trust, Family, and a Life Without Driving

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Nazanine Heydarian on Trust, Family, and a Life Without Driving · nondriver

• Naz: I can walk and be within the range of their micro service. Super cool, but it's run by cars. ⁓ so I can't take my kids. ⁓ because I have two kids that are car seat aged and sized right now. Anna: ⁓ my god, I yeah, microtransit and like when you have a kid that needs a car seat, it just straight up can't work. And I it frustrates me to no end that transit agencies think it can be a replacement. And I'm like, what about parents with young children? Welcome to Nondriver Devin: Stories of navigating our world from people who can't drive. And I'm Devin Silvernail. Anna: I'm Anna Zivarts. We have a really exciting guest. ⁓ Nazanine Heydarian grew up in El Paso and has spent her adult life navigating the US-Mexico border region. First, Austin for a postdoc, then rural North Texas during the pandemic, and now the Rio Grande Valley, where she is an assistant professor of social work at UT Rio Grande Valley. She doesn't drive because she is legally blind. When she arrived in South Texas, she faced a lot of obstacles getting around. With support from her husband, she started cycling as a form of transportation. She now bikes to campus, does solo grocery runs by bike, bikes with her kids, and navigates a mix of canal paths and paved routes. Welcome, Nas. Thanks so much for joining us. we got connected, I think, because you reached out around week without driving last year. And I like you had this really ambitious list of activities that you were coordinating for the week without driving. And I was ⁓ I was so impressed. We'll get into that more and what you're planning this year, because I think ⁓ the the ideas that you come up with ⁓ are some of the most creative ⁓ create a week without driving star ⁓ ideas that I've heard. But first I want to get a little bit more into your story and your background. ⁓ tell us more about growing up as ⁓ someone who is blind and when it sort of hit you that you weren't going to be able to drive to get around, drive yourself. Naz: Kind of a funny story. It hit me when I f failed the vision test to get my light. Devin: You you went far. Wow. Naz: I think that was sort of the f the first ⁓ like okay, this is probably not gonna happen for me moment. ⁓ we did l look into bioptic driving a little bit, but I was never super serious about it. I think ⁓ I was 17, so my parents waited to put me through driver's ed when my sister was fifteen. ⁓ so we went together and it was actually not a terrible experience. I think it was a valuable experience for me to go through Driver's Ed because then I can understand like a little bit about how ⁓ the rules of the world road work and what the training is that driving people get. ⁓ now this was like a million years ago so like I could probably use a refresher. but it was really it was fun going to driver's ed with my sister and like we would stay up studying together. ⁓ and then we took the written test together and then we took the vision test together. I think I don't remember if she went first and passed, and then I didn't go like I went and I didn't pass. ⁓ and I remember I was I kind of somehow got the DMV person to call my eye doctor. I was like, no, no, I'm really supposed to be here. Like I you don't understand. Like I need to get my driver's license. So like She got on the phone with my eye doctor and my eye doctor was like, no, this is not a good idea. Like, no, no. And so and I felt so betrayed by my eye doctor. I was like, here I've been seeing you for the last eight years and you're gonna do it like that. So ⁓ like I can laugh about it now, but it was really hard for me at the time because like all my friends were getting their licenses, and this is ⁓ West Texas. So my parents always lived in suburbia and they would just drive us everywhere. ⁓ I grew up really close to my cousins and ⁓ they would like our cousins were older than me and my sisters. And they would ⁓ drive us whenever we needed it. So there were always drivers on hand growing up. and then it got trickier as I got older. ⁓ because then like I wanted to go to like ⁓ I don't know, like Target at nine PM. and my parents were like not feeling it. They're like, It's nine PM. Like I don't wanna go to Target right now. And so those kinds of moments like gut they where my needs didn't match their driving schedules kind of that gap between my needs and their schedule and their energy kind of grew over the years. Devin: You talk about in high school, being able to get rides, and as you're a young person, and it's almost like you get to benefit from the people around you who ⁓ were so excited to drive, like, ⁓ yeah, I'll give you a ride, let's go somewhere. And then the further away from that you get, right, is ⁓ a little bit more difficult. ⁓ post that and like prior to you getting engaged in cycling, how did you primarily get get around? Naz: My mom and my sister. Yeah. ⁓ it's interesting because we're three sisters, ⁓ but two of us are blind slash low vision. So there's me and then my youngest sister, like she's leak she's ⁓ low vision. ⁓ so we only have one driver out of the three sisters. Anna: There's gotta be some dynamics. I can't imagine. I did not go through ⁓ my my sister who's three years younger than me and she she drove, you know, she's was a terrible driver for a long time too. But ⁓ I can't imagine going through driver Z and then having her pass. We were, you know, so sort of competitive and me not being able to Naz: Yeah, and like she's wonderful and we definitely we both have our strengths and but usually I'm the test taker. Like I was the one who kind of she would do well in school. Like all three of us do well in school, but like ⁓ I was always the one who would excel under like testing pressure, probably because of all the experience I got, I guess, as a young person going through the school system and constantly being evaluated. ⁓ like as a disabled young person going through the school system. And I ⁓ am Persian. ⁓ and I grew up like very close to the Mexico US border culture. ⁓ and so I s I think I see it a bit in like the Latino culture as well. But there's a little bit of a like the best way I can say it is like machismo around like the oldest sibling position. Like the oldest sibling is kind of like this legend in the family. Like you're supposed to be like super cool emotionally, like ⁓ just like super smart. ⁓ like nothing bothers you and people like come to you to like take care of their problems and like you're just like the provider ⁓ of excess. So there's a bit of like ⁓ machismo. And so I felt like when I got to the that part of my life because that was a big part of it too. Like when friends and family would come visit, ⁓ you would have to drive them around everywhere because there's no viable public transportation where we live. And so that was sort of part of the being able to provide. ⁓ and then when she got her license and I didn't, ⁓ I just felt like ⁓ it was a bit of a knock to my oldest sibling bravado. Like it The and we can, you know, like it's yeah. So it's kind of interesting. There's a bit of a yeah, there Anna: Yeah. I don't know. In my family, I still feel like when I go to the vaccine community I grew up in, like ⁓ because I can't drive, someone always has to drive me somewhere. And it it sort of is an infantilizing in some ways, right? Like I'm back to being a kid again. Well, my siblings have become adults because they can go drive and get their needs met. ⁓ I'm still sort of treated like the child, ⁓ in that situation. And it's yeah, it's tricky too, 'cause I, you know, my partner drives. We live in a place where a lot of people drive and driving is the easiest way to get around. I'm curious sort of how you negotiated that trothan ⁓ transition from from, you know, being with your siblings and now to being married and being a parent of your own and sort of wanting to feel that sense of independence and control, but also, you know, negotiating, you know, that in a relationship and in your family now. Naz: Yeah, there's definitely a practical element too, because like, ⁓ I'm not I haven't figured out my biking the two kids around for ⁓ functional purposes yet. Like I've I can only take one of them. I like my Brompton. The Brompton's my favorite bike right now. ⁓ like we have a couple. ⁓ we're we're sort of becoming the bike family. ⁓ which is great. ⁓ so like I can only take one of them. I tried taking them both to the library. We set it up and I was like ready to go. And I put both kids on. So we had a tule seat that's like a little ⁓ like a car seat for a bike, basically. So yeah, the we have a tule for the one and a half year old, and then ⁓ there's also a bigger tulee that we have for the four year old. ⁓ but as she's getting older and heavier, like I'm just not comfortable riding with her in the Thule on the back of a bike. And so, like, I've ridden with the Thule in the front with this the toddler, and I've taken her to the library once before, and it was so stressful. ⁓ like I would do it again and it would probably be less stressful, but it was just like this is just really scary. I got a seat for the four year old though that goes like in between my seat and the handlebars of the Brompton. And so I'd taken her to school, like using that a couple of times. Like it was really nice to have that as an option. I Anna: It's funny 'cause as my my kid got older and the Thule on the back, he just started loving to like throw himself around. Like he loved the power he felt by being heavy enough to like, you know, knock me around. And so finally I was like, Okay, no. This is we got a lower lower gr center of gravity bike where he couldn't do that to me anymore. But ⁓ my god, four is four is tricky. Naz: Yeah, I still am meaning to look into that, like the lower center of gravity, like what you have. ⁓ 'cause that would be really nice. And I'd like a way to like get them to the library, like the both of them safely. to the library and back. the library's like two and a half miles from my house. Anna: For folks who don't know, like the sort of the geography, what's what is the environ like w the neighborhood you live in, what kind of infrastructure? I'm guessing there's not not tr transit's not around or reliable enough to to be something that you can count on. So I live Naz: in Edinburgh in the Rio Grande Valley and it's like part of the Rio Grande Valley is a region that consists of like depending on who you ask, like three to five counties. ⁓ there are a lot of cities clustered sort of close together. and I find this useful to explain because in El Paso it wasn't like this at all. El Paso was just kind of like the lone city in West Texas and they're like the closest city is like, I don't know, three, four hours drive away. but we do share a border with a large city in Mexico, but when you're thinking just US, then it is just like El Paso and a whole lot of nothing. But here there's just like it's like a region where there's a cluster of of ⁓ cities. So we live on the border of like the larger s the big city in our county, McAllen. So we have Valley Metro, which serves the lower Rio Grande Valley region that includes my county. and they have 10 routes that serve Edinburgh, which are all two miles or greater away from me. and then we have McAllen Metro, ⁓ or Metro McAllen, which so the city of McAllen runs their own transit. ⁓ and they kind of keep their stuff separate from Valley Metro. ⁓ like they try to not have Valley Metro come into McAllen much at all except through to their central station. And then ⁓ I think it just leaves. Like Valley Metro does not have stops in McAllen except for the central station. It can make things a little bit c ⁓ complicated for the user because practically ⁓ the users use we go to Edinburgh, we go to McAllen, like we don't just stick to like we have life and work that touches different cities. And so it would be really convenient to have like a seamless ability to like do that. But since I live so close to the border of Edinburgh and McAllen, I can walk and be within the range of their micro service. ⁓ super cool. But it's run by cars. ⁓ so I can't take my kids. ⁓ because I have two kids that are car seat aged and sized right now. Anna: That is ⁓ my God. I yeah. Microtransit and like when you have a kid that needs a car seat, it just straight up can't work. And I it frustrates me to no end that transit agencies think it can be a replacement. And I'm like, What about parents with young children? Like, how? How? Like that's when you need it the most when your kid can't walk a mile or two miles. Yeah. Devin: Yeah, it's terrible. I mean, like that's a policy proposal right there. Like, you know, like have a car seat in these cars. Like require a car seat in those cars 'cause it is it's impossible. Anna: I tried really hard here in in the Seattle area to get metro contracts with Via for some microtransit to include car seats. And they said they couldn't there wasn't a manufacturer that made car seats that met the liability requirements standards that they needed for like multiple use car seats. So they wouldn't do it. ⁓ though they also told me that at least in Washington state, that the the the metro vans they count as taxis and under taxi law. you're allowed to not have your kid in a car seat. It's up to the discretion of the parent or caregiver. So Naz: But there's a reason we put our kids in car seats. Devin: That's probably a law that was made in like nineteen seventy. You know, no one changed it. Anna: This is, I mean, maybe this gets cut from the podcast, but if you don't have, have you seen these harnesses that they ⁓ I got one when my kid was small. ⁓ they ⁓ they they're car seat substitutes that you their kid is supposed to be 30 pounds for them to work. My kid was tiny and so I started using it when he was like 20 pounds because he was, you know, whatever. And it's it's a harness, so they're actually portable. ⁓ so a lot of blind folks I know use them for like Ubers and stuff because it's it's a car suit, like it's a car seat they can wear. That's Naz: Cool. It it's probably as safe as a car seat. Anna: Yeah, I think once they're a certain size, right? I mean, and if you wanted to make it really safe, you would have like an inflatable booster underneath them too, but I never did that part. Naz: Could do that with one and maybe I should look into it because I I'm taking solutions that like would help me even with one kid right now. Anna: ⁓ yeah, I mean, so we've gotten really deep into this like how to make life work with kids and without driving in a place where there's not, you know, easy transit. Yeah. So so you you're able to transport one kid with the bike. Are there places you can walk to? Or is that like the scale of that is just too far? Naz: It depends. Sometimes I do. So we have a park within a half mile walk from here. ⁓ which is cool because we have I have a couple options to get to the park. Like I can take the neighborhood roads or I can take the canal if I just don't feel like seeing a car. ⁓ then there's like her school is connected to the park. It's like right just I don't know. Like there's a gate that the park and the school share. so That's really nice. I can take them to the park. I can take her to school and pick her up from school. ⁓ then there's an H E B that's a mile walk. So grocery store that's a mile walk from here. but the walk is not very pleasant. Like there's a sidewalk along a pretty busy strode. ⁓ yeah, so it's a s it's a local road, so I've sort of floated the idea of like reduce the speed limit, but you know, how that's gonna go. but ⁓ yeah, so it's just not pleasant because the cars they come by quickly and it's really loud because of all the traffic noise. ⁓ but I do it with the girls sometimes. and I'll take them, I'll walk them because I don't have like a way to bike them both. there's a coffee shop that my oldest loves to go to. It's like a little bit closer than the eight the grocery store. and then in that area there's like a shopping mall, ⁓ like a strip mall kind of thing where the coffee shop is part of it. ⁓ but then there's like a post office there and our healthcare clinic is a five minute walk from my house, which is nice. Anna: ⁓ that's when you got little ones. ⁓ my gosh. Naz: Well, we take the the kids to a pediatrician. It's like two or three miles away. and I've looked into biking, but we have just always gone as a family and we'll just drive there. So there are some things, but they're very like practical and there's not I would really like a restaurant, ⁓ like a little cafe with a solid vegan option or two. ⁓ and another coffee shop closer than the current one. We'll see. It's it's sort of a developing area too, so we're hopeful that like we'll get some interesting things coming up in the next like five, ten years, but we'll see. Devin: So you mentioned that when you do some things like ⁓ going to the doctor with the family, ⁓ you're able to go by car. Is that ⁓ are you is that with your spouse? ⁓ yeah, it's interesting because I think we're all in that situation where all of us all three of us then have our our significant other who is able to drive. ⁓ I'm curious, like when when you met Naz: Mm-hmm, yeah. Devin: What was that, you know, dance like, you know, of of getting to kind of open up for them to figure out or find out about that? Did it happen almost immediately or did that take time? And then ⁓ you know, something we've noticed with a lot of the folks that we've talked to is it almost seems like, you know, we they're recruited right into this kind of solidarity, ⁓ you know, with non-drivers. I'm curious, how that's going and and ⁓ ⁓ you know, just in general like the whole process that how that's gone for you. We may Naz: In grad school, ⁓ and he was we were friends for a few years before we started dating. He had never given me a ride though. Like he had kind of set up his life where and I don't think he owned a car yet. he he moved here ⁓ with like he had a girlfriend. So ⁓ before we were dating, he was in a relationship with somebody who had her own car and he would actually use her car. And so I don't think it was a stretch for him 'cause he has lived as a non driver before. And like before he had moved to El Paso for grad school, like he couldn't afford a car when he was ⁓ an undergrad or like before he went to undergrad. So and he would always tell me about like there was this period in his life where he went to a pawn shop and he got a BMX bike and he would ride that BMX bike all over I think it was when he lived in ⁓ Madison, Madison, Wisconsin. He's from Wisconsin. And so ⁓ there was a bit of an understanding, I guess. And I never really thought about it. And I didn't date really. And the non-driving kind of was a reason for that. But like when I did go on a few dates, like I was always really like, I don't wanna really get in his car. Cause like and it was very when you get in someone's car, you are giving them a lot of power. Like ⁓ and yeah, so for me it took It takes a lot of trust ⁓ to get in somebody's car. And I remember the first, like, so I didn't really go on I went on one date with somebody that I had met who just asked me out, like after we met. ⁓ everybody else I've ever been on like any semblance of a date, and I have been on like maybe can count on one hand, but it was just kind of like, well, when you get in somebody's car, like that's it. Like then you're off. And ⁓ you have to really know like where you're going, like and trust the person. We'll get you there. ⁓ 'cause I had I've well not for dates, but I had gotten into cars with like other people that like were a friend of a friend kind of thing. ⁓ and it's always a mixed bag. I feel like I'm I should have a license in being like a passenger. That's why I always tell people, I'm like, I'm an expert passenger. I have always been a passenger. Nobody has as much life's experience except for you guys, probably. But like we have a very unique life experience as a passenger. And we've probably ridden with more people as drivers than like the average person, the average driver. ⁓ so I feel like I've seen it all. ⁓ there's there's a lot of different styles, a lot of range of quality of driving. ⁓ and yeah, like when you get into somebody's car, even if it's like a friend of a friend or ⁓ like an acquaintance or even your friend and you've experienced their driving before, ⁓ you have this information, use this information to like weigh your decision on whether you're gonna get into somebody's car or not. But I trusted him. ⁓ like I needed a ride from my internship or from my from campus to my internship. I need me a ride. ⁓ and it was funny to see him in a driver's seat because like I just I guess I kind of assume that people are like me and are nine non-drivers until I see them driving for the first time. And it's always kind of like a weird experience. I'm like, ⁓ you driving? Are you sure you're ready for this? Like So, yeah. So it was fine. And then ⁓ but he's always known. And so it wasn't a problem when we were in grad school, ⁓ because we would just like We would socialize as grad students and like we would go, ⁓ and he would just take me places. And this was like he would offer rides when we weren't dating, but I was kind of like, no, I'll just take rides from like my friends, like, ⁓ I don't want people, I don't know, assuming that we're dating or something like when we weren't. but yeah, so we I didn't yeah. So then he took I would take rides from him when we were dating, obviously. Like ⁓ he bought his own car before we started dating. and then yeah, so he was excited, I think. Like he was in this space where he was just able to buy a new car for the first time in his life. ⁓ and so I think he was probably more excited to like be this is so interesting. I'm only thinking of this now. Like, because we would go out more when we were in grad school. We were also we also didn't have children. So that's Anna: Definitely a factor. Naz: But like it's way easier to like yeah coordinate with one adult to go out, right? Than it is to like okay, now get the children on board and then yeah, so but he was probably really excited to drive his little yeah, Ford something something. I don't know. The first one it was like blue. It was a blue Anna: This is how I feel about cars. I do not notice. And my child is like obsessed with car brands. Naz: But then he got an upgrade. The next car he got, it was was that the Fiesta. It was like a little orangey red car. And it was smaller than the other car. And it was sportier. So it was I was comfortable and was like I like the other car better. And he was like, what? This one's so cool. And I'm like, I don't care. He says comfortable. Anna: So when you guys like you were then both like looking for academic jobs and trying to figure out where you could like move, where you had job offers. I mean, I can't imagine when my friends who have gone through that process or people I know, like how it's so stressful. But then also have to think about, ⁓ my gosh, is this gonna be a place that I can live as someone who doesn't drive was that like, were you trying to consider that or was just like, Okay, we're gonna go where we both get jobs and that's We'll make it work no matter what. I Naz: It was more like it, like we're gonna figure it out, like we're both gonna get a job somewhere, and then we'll figure out like how. So first I got my postdoc in Austin and he was he got a faculty position right out of grad school and he graduated a year before me. So he got ⁓ or no, I'm sorry, he needed a faculty, he got a job at a community college as their program evaluator. And so that was in Dallas, and he lived in Dallas and he lived like strategically. He's always been good about like living somewhere where he doesn't have to fully depend on a car. ⁓ and so and I wasn't living with him. I was in El Paso finishing my degree and then but I would visit him and it was really cool because like sometimes ⁓ when I would visit like we would take the bus or the train. ⁓ and this is Dallas, right? Like Dallas is pretty known for being really, really suburban and really car dependent. ⁓ but even Dallas has its pockets. ⁓ and he would pick me up and then we would like go and hang out like in his neighborhood. And whenever we got to his neighborhood, we would just like walk. or take transit. ⁓ and then he'd have to like shuttle me back. But he did it like he ended up getting a job in North Texas and I got a postdoc in Austin and I knew that the postdoc is temporary. ⁓ it's like a two year fellowship, whereas his faculty position was more permanent. So we were kinda like, well we'll see what happens after this postdoc. Like he continued living in North Texas and I lived in Austin. And we got married like a week after I moved. ⁓ so he would ⁓ come visit every weekend and then ⁓ I would go up for a couple weeks like during school holidays. So I would go to Wichita Falls for a little bit. ⁓ so we did that for like a year, ⁓ 2018 to ⁓ December 2019 Dun dun dun and then 2020 happened. And then ⁓ yeah, so I finished my postdoc remotely. we went to El Paso for that spring break. And that was the spring break that got extended through the through the end of the semester. So we ended up basically living in El Paso at my parents' house ⁓ until May or June. so I decided to move out of my Austin apartment because it was just sitting there for Three months, four months. ⁓ and I wasn't like living there, but I was paying rent. Yeah. Then we got jobs here. And then as we were, ⁓ we did a little bit of research about the the transit situation here before we moved here. And then yeah, we just we found a house that we liked and we moved. And then ⁓ I was pregnant when we moved with my oldest, and then I gave birth like a few months after we moved here. So I've always been like, ⁓ my mobility was limited either by like cause I was super duper pregnant and kind of out of shape. to like now I we have two kids. Like these are all things that like affect your mobility. ⁓ so yeah, we he's been really good 'cause I I guess it's nice to have a partner who's got some experience ⁓ as a non driver. ⁓ it helps. Devin: Hmm. ⁓ I was curious, you know, it's funny 'cause you talked about ⁓ you know how your your husband loved this BMX bike at one point and and before in the ⁓ conversation you had talked about ⁓ how you you guys are maybe becoming the bike people. and it made me think, you know, we've talked to quite a few people now about this idea. of ⁓ having multiple bikes. And it didn't really click in my head until we started Anna and I started doing this podcast that a lot of people that I know who are non drivers ⁓ from like forever or people who who are non drivers not by choice have a ton of bikes. I mean like Anna, you have several bikes. ⁓ our family has s six. We we have well one kid bike. I have three bikes and ⁓ my wife has two. So it it it's just funny to think like ⁓ you know, that when you talk to a lot of folks in in policy spaces or otherwise, they don't ever really see the bike as like this tool for mobility. ⁓ it's more of like a tool for like, I don't know, something you do on the weekends. Naz: But cognitively maybe they do. Like they understand, like, but there's something missing. Because I feel like if there was this link, ⁓ then people would move a little fast. Anna: I feel like that sort of teed us up for a week without driving question of the like why we try to get people who normally drive to try to to do week without driving. How I don't know how how did you hear about week without driving initially? And do you want to talk a little bit about what you guys are planning this year? Because I think it's pretty cool. Naz: ⁓ so I originally heard about it through America Walks, one of their newsletters. ⁓ I got I did the walk in college with them in 2023 or 2024, I forget now. 2023. my old neighborhood. So when I first moved out in El Paso, ⁓ I moved to like a historic neighborhood that was like walkable to the university. And they had a really active ⁓ what do you call it, like neighborhood organization. And so I I'd never went to any of the meetings, but I subscribed to the email list. It was really interesting to like subscribe to the email list. ⁓ so one of the issues that they are still dealing with now that started when I was a grad student living in that neighborhood was that they wanted to expand the highway and that would impact the historic neighborhood because they would like it would ex expand through that neighborhood. And so ⁓ it would make like just It would make it less desirable to live there. ⁓ it would take out certain homes. ⁓ and so there was a lot of neighborhood advocacy like against it. And so I was kind of following it, like aware, like, ⁓ this is this seems like a really bad thing for the community. Like, must really be a important thing. And so, like, ⁓ and I didn't feel like I really understood like the the details, but I thought it was interesting. And so when I moved here and I felt very like just stuck trapped, I guess. Like, and I couldn't, especially with the newborn. So I reached out to America Walks and then I met with someone ⁓ virtually, I think Ian. ⁓ and so we had a video call and I remember thinking and I was kind of like Ian I'm like a just started my faculty position and I have this newborn. Like I don't have time for extra advocacy. Like I would love to but I have no time. He's like why don't you roll it into your ⁓ he's like, Why don't you do the ⁓ walk in college and then like they promote walk audits a lot at the time. ⁓ so they would encourage people to like learn how to do them and then use them as an advocacy tool. And he's like, Why don't you roll this into one of your classes that you're teaching? And that way it's kind of like you're doing this advocacy piece, but it's rolled into your teaching, so it's not like extra work. And so I was like, That sounds great. Let's do it. So I did. And then that's kind of how I got involved with America Walks. And then I heard about Week Without Driving from the list. When I was starting out, I was really like cautious and having lots of meetings with our government relations person. ⁓ and he was always really supportive of the ⁓ like walk audits and just sort of the purpose behind it. ⁓ like the transportation like equity. ⁓ so he was very supportive. And I remember in one of our meetings, I was like, Richard, I wish I could just I'm frustrated because I know a lot of these transit staff and like streets and engineers folks, like they're great. They have like all the education and credentials to be able to do this job, but like they do this from nine to five. And at the end of the day, they get in their car and they drive home and they don't have to think about it. And so, like, I was like, I wish there was some way we could just like make them. like experience this because I feel like if they experienced it, like and he always like he's like, Yeah, that's a great idea. And you would talk about stuff like what you've done, like get the seat, ⁓ like for a person like who's a non-driver, like reserve a seat on a board or ⁓ like different ⁓ committees and stuff like that. He's like, this is one way we could go about it. He's like or if we could like challenge them to like non not drive for like I don't know, try to get to work for a day or something like that. And so like then week without driving popped up and I was like, this is exactly what this is like this is my permission. So community partners came together and we planned for week without driving last year. ⁓ and the programming was really great, but I felt like we didn't get the word out enough. ⁓ but for me, my week without driving is ⁓ the way I like to do it is like the main thing is to elevate the voices of the non-drivers. ⁓ the second thing is to show the the drivers that we're human and it's all it's kind of fun to not drive everywhere sometimes. So that was kind of like what I was hoping. It like just you know see these as options. This is your opportunity to try it and then consider using these things and driving less like in the year ahead. ⁓ because that's also something that serves non-drivers. makes the streets safer and people more understanding. Yeah, so I'm trying to make it more fun this year, less academic and more fun. Anna: Yeah, I are you still doing the bus pull? That that's the part I was like, ⁓ my gosh, nobody's nobody's thought of that one yet. Naz: We're doing the bus pull, because this is something that I've been thinking about since I started training, strength training. So I started doing this as like postpartum recovery, like physical mental health postpartum recovery. ⁓ so I started training for powerlifting. I'm not ⁓ I have competed in like three powerlifting meets. I'm not competitive. I've always I'm dead last, okay? Like Well so I get it twisted. I think like when I tell people they're like, ⁓ power lifter, wow and I'm like, Yeah, ⁓ it technically doesn't take a lot. But like it's also really fun. ⁓ and it's really cool to build your own strength. It's really empowering and it's also like, you know, just good for me. and as a non-driver, it like it helps me to have a stronger body so that I can bike further and like walk fur like so that I can sort of rely on my body instead of a car. Anna: Yeah, carrying those groceries, man, it's Naz: You know, there are folks who are blind and have other disabilities and ⁓ they have other strategies and things to do. But like as somebody whose main or only disability is blindness, ⁓ I'm just kind of trying to like work with the rest of what I've got. And so, ⁓ yeah. So my coach is a strongman. like that's kind of his main, like the strongman sport. After a couple months of training with my coach, ⁓ like I did he had me pull his truck and I was like, okay, sure, I'll try it. Like, if he thinks I can do it, like I can probably do it. And so I pulled his truck up and down the street. I pulled it one way and I pushed it the other way. And it was so empowering. I was like, this is so cool. Like, here's me, a non-driver, like mm pushing around this. very heavy vehicle. That's when the f idea came to me. I was like, you know, I that would be really cool if I could push or pull like a a bus pull would really be cool someday. And I was like, I don't know if I would ever be able to do that because a bus weighs significantly more than just like a truck. I think I probably mentioned it to my coach. I was like, ⁓ it'd be fun to do like a bus pull because like I don't know, it'd be fun to make that as like an advocacy thing. And then I don't When this actually I think this year it just it was like I was thinking of things to do differently from last year. And I was like, you know what? Why not a bus pull? And I texted my coach about it and I was like, yeah, like is this a thing we could do like with teams? And so he was like, Yeah, like it between he's like a team of three, it would be more challenging. Up to a team of five, it would still be challenging, but it would be like less challenging. And so, That was cool. I was like, okay, so now I know it's doable. And so thinking through the logistics and I was like, well now we need a bus. And so I was talking to ⁓ my f ⁓ friend from Metro McGallen. So I was kind of bouncing the idea off of him and I was like, I really want to ask ⁓ Rodney, who's our ⁓ parking and transportation executive director here at the University in Texas Rio Grande Valley. And so I was like, I want to ask him, but what if he says no? And he was like, yeah, he could say no. And I was like, okay, I guess I should just ask him, because then I'll know. And like the the weeks and the months won't keep ticking by and I'll have a plan. And so I asked Rodney. He was like, yeah, sounds cool. Let's do it. And I was like, ⁓ that was easy. Anna: That's so amazing. I almost wanna come like I'm I'm very tempted to get on an airplane and come participate in this bus pull. Naz: It is right in the middle of the week without driving, so I imagine you're gonna be very busy. Anna: I'll see, you know, I'm tempted. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thanks for listening to Nondriver. I'm Anna Zivarts. Devin: And I'm Devin Silvernail. If today's conversation resonated with you, please subscribe and share the show with a friend. Anna: You can also leave us a review wherever you listen. It genuinely helps other people find the show. Devin: Nondriver is brought to you by the Nondrivers Alliance. Find more info at nondrivers.org. Anna: And this episode was produced by Devin. Devin: Want to get in touch? Email us at non-driverpodcast at proton.me. ⁓ Anna: We'll see you next week.