Latest / 10X AI with Julius Neil / How a Behavioral Intelligence Model Predicts AI Adoption Success
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- Leon Morales: So it really helps the onboarding process. In fact, we used to have two-day training sessions in our app when somebody would start with us, and it's cut it down to 30 minutes. Because we don't all Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Hello. Leon Morales: we have to do is show what the AI tool can do and everybody's off and running. And rarely do we ever get any tickets. It also cut down our tickets from, from people sending a ticket around a a solution that they needed. We cut it down about 75%. I'd say probably more like eighty percent. So it's really reduced Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay. Leon Morales: our customer care side. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: And I'm here with Leon Morales. Leon Morales, can you introduce yourself to our viewers and listeners right now and tell them about your background? Leon Morales: Absolutely. Thank you, Julius. It's a pleasure to be here. I'm very looking, I've been looking forward to this podcast for some time now. So my name is Leon Morales, and I'm the President and Chief Energy Officer here at DNA Behavior. And for those of you that are not familiar with DNA behavior, we are a behavioral intelligence platform. We actually help organizations really understand their not only their their individuals and their team, but also their client relationships. And we do it through sort of a data analytics approach. and we use a discovery process we call DNA discovery, which is a natural behavior process, and it uncovers over 4,000 insights for an individual. You can use it in financial planning, you can use it in organizations, and we do it in a way that's you know really kind of from the tops down with an organization, really helping it become behaviorally smart. That's sort of our tagline. And the one Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay. Leon Morales: thing that I the one thing, Julius, I always like to to mention is we have this philosophy here at DNA Behavior that if you don't really know what your natural behavior is, sometimes it can lead to trouble or blind spots. So we always say say this, check yourself before you wreck yourself. So if you know your behavior, Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Ha Leon Morales: you really can sort of, you know, keep yourself sort of in in in sort of in a good sp a good spot. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, yeah. So I believe that. You have to know yourself first so that you'll be able to manage how you react with things, how you do the patterns and how you do your daily patterns and daily tasks and all this. you should know when is the time you are best performing, when is the time that you need to slow down and all this behavioral. Yeah, yeah. So... Leon Morales: Absolutely. Yes. And I know we're gonna do a little deeper dive, but you know, it's my my element, my zone. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, so Leandro, first time I heard this, Chief Energy Officer. Can you just, you know, elaborate on that? What is Chief Energy Officer? Leon Morales: Yeah, our So our chairman and I, I've been working with DNA Behavior since twenty twelve. I joined the team. I had such an interest in human behavior, Julius, that I was really looking for an opportunity to work in human behavior because it was really a field of study that was sort of emerging. You know, when I was going through college, I chose to be an accountant, but I really should have been more beh behavioral science major, but it really wasn't a study at when I was going through college. But I had such an interest in it. And I do it because I'm just fascinated by human beings and how they actually work, how they think about work, how they react under pressure. So it really got me on the pathway of studying behavioral science. And that's what really got me to DNA behavior. And so I worked in the company for probably eight years. And I was a chief relationship officer when I first Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Leon Morales: started in the company, more of the chief consultant in the company. And then I was promoted to managing director in the company. And then our leader Hugh and I were talking and he said, you know, because I really believe in sort of the energy exchange with people, sometimes when you've got sort of it takes more energy to actually work with someone, that's typically an indicator that you are opposite to that individual as far as your your your behavioral wiring. And it's important to to know that sometimes when it takes more energy to c you know to work with someone versus somebody else. That's so we came up with the title of Chief Energy Officer. And if you think about it, it's CEO. So Chief Energy Officer, CEO. So that's how we came up with the title. It's been a sort of an honor to have that title. It's kind of a unique Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, it's so unique and I was like, what is chief energy? They're coming from a science background and engineering Leon Morales: Yeah. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: career also. So I was thinking, what is this? Is this about energy, what do call it? Energy conservation, energy consumption of the behavioral mind and all this. So this is what I'm thinking. It's more of the, is that on that energy level of our human brain? How do, how our human brains work? Yeah. Leon Morales: It is Yeah, it really is. So, you know, we c in this in our system we have this this diagnostic called style match. And since you and I are having some dialogue here, I imagine that we probably are at least a seventy percent style match between the two of us. It means if we're working together, we're probably gonna be very cordial working together. But if you have a thirty percent match with another individual, that can r actually be difficult to carry on a conversation or for it to naturally flow. So it's just a really good indicator, you know, how much energy it's gonna take to sort of work with somebody. And I love that being able to look at that style match and work with somebody. It doesn't mean I wouldn't want to work with somebody at thirty percent. It just means I've gotta probably have a little bit b more mindfulness of working with them versus somebody that's ninety percent, which literally we could be finishing each other's sentences. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, so I'm very interested in that, what you said, with this style match. So how do you calculate that in terms of the variables? How many variables are you calculating? And then what are these top variables that should be incorporated in the backend of the style match? Leon Morales: Yeah. So the style match actually takes two completed profiles, we call them. So I've got my unique natural behavior profile. I'm an initiator by my by my by my DNA completed results. And if I'm matched with an adapter, that would probably be somebody that I would be probably like a fifty-five percent match with someone like that. But if I'm matched with somebody like a relationship builder. That can be very opposite to me. That's probably more like a 45% match. And it matches things like take charge versus cooperative, because I'm a little more take charge. The relationship builder's gonna be a little bit more of a cooperative individual. And if I have a lot of respect for both of both of us have a lot of respect, we're probably gonna do pretty well. But if that person sees me as too take charge, sometimes that can lead to passive aggressive behavior on the on the part of the relationship builder. So it's important to know that as we go into the relationship. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, in terms of, it's very interesting. So in terms of that, in terms of that, you know, that match, for example, in an organization. So how do you translate that into an ROI? And it comes to, in terms of financial, because this one is more ideal, ideal relationship and all this. Of course, if you are in a chief executive, if you are top, you know, top management or C level, okay, that's good. That's a very good, the very good feature of your product. Then how does that translate? into money or into the financial terms of our company. Leon Morales: Excellent question. And Julius, think about this. So you've got somebody that you just hired on your team that's a project manager, let's say. And that person is really spontaneous. Let's say they're spontaneous and quite creative. Those are two scores in the DNA system. So you've got them working on a planned sort of rollout. Because that person is really spontaneous and creative, they take shortcuts because they think very fast-paced. And they don't necessarily follow the plan. So you do the rollout and you missed the rollout because something didn't get the I didn't get crossed or dotted or the T didn't get crossed. Because a spontaneous person will not necessarily just follow every step in the process, where somebody that's very planned follows the plan pretty well. So that's where the ROI comes in. If you've got somebody working that's not really a good fit for the role, it can cost the company. a lot of money to be able to sort of recover that project. And we use this term called COPQ. I don't know if you've ever heard of it, but it's cost of poor quality. And it's a number that's kind of an industry a an industry number. So poor core cost of poor quality, you can measure it. So if you've got somebody that's doing work that's not naturally they're not naturally wired to do, you can quantify that in an ROI. So it doesn't mean that that person is a bad person. It's just that they're a wrong fit for that role. They need we may need to look at the sort of roles that somebody has and make sure that they're working in the right type of work that they're just naturally wired to do. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, in terms of translating that, know, translating the results, for example, you're with the HR, with the manager and all this, or the C levels, okay, these are the mismatch. Then how Leon Morales: Yes. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: do you implement that in the organization? For example, okay, Leon is an initiator, Julius, you're an adapter, they don't match that well. And then you will say, Julius should be in this department, and then Leon should be in this, you know, in this project. Leon Morales: Yeah, and and you know, part of that, Julius is right from the onset when the person's onboarded. If you know this about it, it's a really easy process. So I know here's here's Julius's three top sort of strengths. And we want to make sure that the majority of of Julius' work fits into that sort of benchmark, we would say. And if it doesn't, let's say you are an adapter, and believe it or not, adapters are amazing to work with because they can really adapt. To almost any role, pretty seamlessly. They're quite they're almost like the chameleon the in the organization. and I love working with them because they're so good at sort of almost mirroring my behavior. That's what's so interesting about them. But at the end of the day, sometimes they feel like they are not a master at doing anything because they're so good at so many things. So it's hard for them sometimes to feel like they're really growing in their career, even though they're doing great work. So an adapter is kind of an interesting, unique style. But let's say we've got a reflective thinker, and a reflective thinker is somebody that's very planned. They typically are a little more cautious and they need time to think before they sort of just give you an answer. And they're very thoughtful. So if you put that reflective thinker in a role where they're they need to be moving quickly and, you know, thinking on the spot with you know, just kind of in a pressure cooker. That can really make that person not thrive. They can almost like feel like they're unsuccessful. So you gotta match that role with the right type of individual in the type of work that they do. And it's it's not difficult to do. And I would say in the in the onboarding process or when you're getting ready to hire, make sure that there's a good behavioral fit for the role. It's not difficult to do, it's actually quite easy. But most most organizations hire individuals because they have a personality like to the person. So I'm Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Leon Morales: an initiator and and Julius, anytime I interview an initiator, I usually want to hire the person because I've they they they because they've they sort of emulate my behavior, they sort of, you know, we we have a good connection, but they may not be the right person for the role. I actually might need the reflective thinker who's a little more thoughtful, but I have to be very cognizant of that as a hiring leader and make sure I'm hiring for the right type of work that needs to be done in the organization. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, yeah, so it's quite interesting because I work in... When I was in Sweden before Iceland, I worked in this organization. They have also this, you know, during the hiring process, one of the things that you need to do is take that exam about the personality match. And then I was like, okay, it was good. Okay. And then I did not really take that very seriously because it's just like a personality match, whether I... Leon Morales: Right. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: I'm fit for the job or not, since I don't care. So as long as I have the career, I have this fit when it comes to the job responsibilities. The main thing that really surprises me is when I came in, it's like, if you see, I haven't been in an organization that 80 % of the people really works as one cohesive team. And imagine my organization, there is like 800 people, something like that, 400, 500 people. And then most of this 80 to 90 % are in the same, you know, in the same wavelength. It's like Leon Morales: Yeah. Yeah. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: instantly, okay, let's do this. These are the things that we need to do. Everybody gets it. It's very rare. It's like in my 20 years of experience, it's very rare to have that type of homogeneity. And we are like 120 nationalities in that company. yeah, Leon Morales: Yeah, that's amazing. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: see, it's amazing. So I thought... Before it was like, maybe Asians will be the same like the Asians. And then maybe the Europeans will be the same like, like for example, or the North Americans will be the same or the Latinos or the South Americans will be the same. But this company has 120 nationalities. And that's what I realized, that human beings have certain connections. know what I mean? So that's why I'm very interested with this one. So in your model, how are you going to say, for example, in one organization? you see the gaps. So it works when it comes to individual ones. How come as the holistic whole Leon Morales: Mm-hmm. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: organization like CEO, CEO, and then we have the SMIDL managers, have the technicians, we have the frontliners, everything. How is it going to holistically analyze the whole organization in your model? Leon Morales: Yeah, so it can actually look at the whole organization from the CEO down to the customer service rep and do because it every role would have a benchmark and it could actually show you what the cost of poor quality is. If it's a good behavioral, let's say it's a good behavioral fit, because the company you're talking about probably had a really good hiring practice, they could really ask great behavioral questions to get at the root is this person gonna be a good match for this role? And it sounds like they they were. And So if you have that type of kind of hiring process, you could really have your behavioral fit. And I'll say, you know, it sounds like it was probably at about a ninety-six percent, you know, where people were really good fits for the role. and there's always a little room for, you know, where somebody just isn't a good fit. But you know, if you've got a 97 or 98% role fit in the company down from the CEO or up from the CEO down to the CSR, that's amazing. And I always use the example of. If you've ever studied the Tuckman model of organizations, that all Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Leon Morales: teams form, they come together, they form, and then they go through this phase called storming. And that's where you're learning how to work with each other. So the team that you were talking about, there probably was some things that you know, Julius might do things differently than Leon, so we've got to figure out what these sort of boundaries are. But maybe there's a lot of mutual respect between the po both individuals so they learn how to work better together. So you move from that storming phase to a a level of performing, you know, where you can really sort of get that level of of achievement, you know, that that high percentage of of throughput where everything's kind of coming together. But what's interesting, Julius, as soon as somebody leaves the team and you hire a new person, that team goes right back to forming. Because it's a new team and they're figuring it out. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Hmm Leon Morales: So in a large organization, it may not be as apparent to see it, but every team, you know, usually have a leader. Every team goes through this phase of, you know, forming, storming. And it storming might be a minute or two, or it could be a long period of time. And I've seen many teams that stay in storming because they never figure out the best behavioral matches to work together. In fact, it can lead to resentment about you should, I'm doing more than you're doing. So That's where you optimize the behavioral science side of it. And it can be done in organizations like you mentioned through the hiring process, which I think is excellent. If you had sort of a team coming together and there was a high performance or meeting all their goals, that's great. But you could also see where somebody leaves a team, let's say a high you know, experienced manager leaves, they bring in a new manager and the performance goes down pretty quick, or it might go up. So it's it's Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Leon Morales: really that human behavior, just understand how to optimize the teams. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, do you think, and I'm not sure about your model, do you think you can also quantify the stress level of unfit person? Like what you're saying, this person may be not performing in his job because he's not fit for that job, and then you can also quantify the stress level or the anxiety that this person is having because he Leon Morales: Yeah. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: is unfit into this job. Leon Morales: Yeah, and and Julius, I've seen this many times where and even in my own career, because I went through college after the military and became an accountant. And sort of struggled early in my career, because I you know, the numbers I even though I understand the numbers of the accounting process, I wasn't naturally wired to be an accountant because quite spontaneous and I'm also a big risk taker. So I stuck I struggled a little early in my career with that level of stress because I can remember thinking, why are my peers doing so much better than me on certain things that we do. And I think that's something that, you know, we should all look into our our ability. And that's why I love behavioral science. We should all know ourselves before we even take a job. So if you use sort of an assessment process, it's best to know that. So today I wouldn't actually go in to a a just a a an accounting role because I'm that's not the best use of my skills. But many times people Yeah. Yeah. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Really? What you're an accountant, Leon Morales: Seriously. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: you know? It's a profession, it's like hardcore, accountant, you know, it's a profession. Nobody can say, I want to be accountant tomorrow. You have to have that level of expertise. Leon Morales: That's right. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: And you're telling me that that's not the best use of your skills. You know what I mean? Leon Morales: It it it it and that's that's why it's so important. But sometimes we stay stuck in that role because we trained in it, you know, we learned how to do it. So the next job I'm gonna get because I'm gonna make ten thousand dollars more, I'm just gonna apply for that job, but I'm not even a natural fit for that. So it's important to sometimes step back, and that's what I did, you know, 30 years ago. I said, Okay, accounting is really not sort of the where I need to be. I love doing projects. I love leading projects. I love change management and I love behavioral science. So that's really what I've been doing. So I think you always have to evaluate for yourself that I'm a big believer of always understand sort of your strengths and what you bring to any company. And even if you're in the wrong role today, I believe if you believe in yourself and you have a great relationship with your manager or peers, it's best to try to be very honest. Hey, this isn't a good fit for me. Maybe we could find another role for me if there's something else in the organization, if it's large enough, let me help me move to this type of a role. And I've seen it done many times and very respectfully. But there is nothing worse than being in a role where you're sort of just existing and not really thriving, because many times that person goes into high stress and they end up burned out or they potentially get fired or they they leave on bad terms. And you never want that. You want to have a good reputation. Any company that you work for, you want to really do the best job. And sometimes you just have work that may not be a good fit for you. Make sure you're working on the things that give you a lot of energy. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, it's better, it's just easier said than done. So how did you do that from CPA, high paying job, and then suddenly, no, I don't want this. I just want to go into behavioral science. How did you decide on that? Leon Morales: Yeah. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Give me that, give the listeners and what, you know, that who is watching right now, the three steps on how to evaluate if you are in a career right now, if you're listening now, you're in a career right now or somewhere you think you're stuck. This is the advice from Leon. How do you do that? You know, how do you zoom Leon Morales: Yeah, I think I think Julius Neil Buenconsejo: out? and then see where is the next direction. Leon Morales: Yeah, I think one is if you're thriving in your job and you love it, I mean that's you stay stay in that type of work because you get a lot of energy from that. I recommend that. But if you're not, if you're sort of struggling, you really are, you know, at a crossroads, what do I do? I think going through any assessment process, I think the DNA process is one of the best. So I would, you know, definitely advocate that. But really learn what those natural strengths are because that's really gonna help you in doing that. Because you're gonna look at that result and you're gonna say, Yeah, that does actually is something that I'm really interested in doing. And they, you know, through fortunately through AI, we have all these opportunities that it can kind of give bring to you. And if you're working for a company that you really love, and I did, I worked for a company that I learned a lot and I love the company still today, Cox Enterprises. Probably one of the best companies, best run companies in the world, I believe. And they helped me sort of become who I who I am. And it really gave me the confidence to be able to say, you know what? I don't think accounting is really where I should be. I think I'm much better suited to do enterprise projects. And if you have a good relationship, I'm a believer on mentoring as well, making sure that people in the company sort of maybe outside of your group that you're getting mentored by because they really give you good advice how to actually find a new role. So that's the second one. It's really being having good relationships with leaders in your company that can help you grow, you know, help you guide you. Cause if you really know what these these strengths are they can help you and give you good advice. And sometimes maybe it's just not the company that is gonna where you're gonna thrive. Maybe it's another company. And I'm not advocating that, you know, mentors would tell you to leave the company, but sometimes it is the best thing. When I left in 2008 from Cox Enterprises, I left with a heavy heart because I loved the company, but I knew I had more to give to the world than just, you know, sort of the work I was doing at the company. And that's my passion was was behavioral science. So that's the second one is really understanding that behavioral sort of science. And then I think the other one is when you are working in the type of work that you thrive in, you're going to have confidence. And I think confidence always comes from because you know you're doing a good job, you're getting good feedback, you can see it, you're meeting goals. And I think, you know, being honest with yourself, that you know, are you really doing the type of work that you can be successful with? Being honest with yourself. Because sometimes you have to take the leap. And I did. I had an interest in behavioral science. I knew I wanted to do it. I took the leap. I left and went to work for a BPO, a business optimization firm. And I learned a lot in that firm. But I still knew there was something more for me. And that's when I found DNA behavior and joined in 2012. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, so very, very good. You know, very, very good journey for you. I'm still, Leon Morales: It was. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: yeah, yeah, I'm still in that area also because I love what I'm doing right now, but I like interacting with people. So I'm doing all these projects and interacting with people, but I think I'm being limited with some, you know this, I still feel that. But whenever there are things that we need to present to the whole company, everyone was like, okay, you should present, you should present. And then they always say, every time I go into that stage, after that, you know, speech, whatever, they always say, you're very natural, you should be doing this. And I believe that. But the thing is, in my work, like it's engineering and science, there's very little, there's very little opportunity for that because mostly I work in a factory or manufacturing. or in a laboratory in quality control group and it's very close. So like what you've said, I know what I want, but I don't know how to navigate. Where do I go? That's why I always, Leon Morales: See. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: I always go to, I always join clubs inside the company. I join cultural events. So I will be able to share my knowledge, to share my experiences, to share whatever I have in me in my years of Leon Morales: Right. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: career. Leon Morales: Right. And you know, Julius, I think you've got an excellent opportunity because much like when I was doing accounting, I didn't I wasn't I wasn't exactly thriving as an accountant. Like I didn't get inspired by it. I could do it. But what I did love doing is helping other people that were accounting sort of get to the next level. I loved mentoring other accountants. I ran a whole accounting team of 120 people. I thrived in that. I loved sort of managing the whole group. And I got a lot of opportunities to do presentations because we supported all the business units. So when I think about what you just mentioned, what what you've described is much like me. You do better at the communication and sort of presenting and you know what what it is because you can really shine a really positive light on the group, especially the ones that are more technical in engineering. where that might not be where you want to be, but you could really showcase that where somebody that comes in that's from a marketing group, they don't really understand engineering. They don't really understand the the struggles that engineers have of, you know the technical side of it, sort of showcasing it, where you just have a natural ability to do that because you have the ability to communicate it and show what they're doing. So I actually think you have a a very a very positive sort of career career direction. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: I do really like talking to people and also like communicating with big crowd. I like that. I really like that. So that's why I Leon Morales: Yeah. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: know that. Leon Morales: And you know, Julius that most engineers do not like to get in front of people. They do not like to get on the stage. They Julius Neil Buenconsejo: That's that's why that's why they're saying you can do that. Please do this. You know, so that's why that's why that's how Leon Morales: That's right. So so look at that as an opportunity, honestly. I think it's a really positive. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, so that's what I'm saying. So this type of behaviors in your model, you will be able to identify that, okay, Julius is this type of person. And then Leon Morales: That's right. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: you will be able to say, okay, what he's doing now, you're limiting him, his ability to grow more or to affect the change in the organization. And then you'll be able to tell, right? You'll be able to tell, okay, Julius should be in this position, right? Leon Morales: That's right. That's that's right. It would That's right. That's right. It would show that. It would show the things that you're gonna your strengths and you know, that's why it's s subtle changes can make a difference in somebody's career, that they thrive. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, okay. Let's go to the AI side of the model. So how do you use AI? Do you even use AI in your model or you are just... Because you Leon Morales: Absolutely. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: have your own or... Yeah, how did you adapt? Because before this, of course, you have your own algorithms and then AI came. How did your model improve using AI? Leon Morales: Yeah. So the one thing, Julius, is we, you know, have a psychometric model. So when somebody completes the questionnaire, it's very precise about your behavior. So that's you know what we call natural and instinctive behavior. It's very accurate. AI can't really predict it, because even though the models are getting better, it can't predict it. Like, you know, it can give you probably some general cues. but where AI has really helped us. is in the training of onboarding of a of a company. We have a tool called Gene G-EN E that helps an individual in our system really learn how to use the insights. It's super easy to use this the solution, but sometimes you know a number will show up and maybe the new individual doesn't know what the number means. So Gene AI draws on 20,000 documents, can really give you a concise answer. So it really helps the onboarding process. In fact, we used to have two-day training sessions in our app when somebody would start with us, and it's cut it down to 30 minutes. Because we don't all Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Hello. Leon Morales: we have to do is show what the AI tool can do and everybody's off and running. And rarely do we ever get any tickets. It also cut down our tickets from, you know, from people sending a ticket around a a solution that they needed. We cut it down about 75%. I'd say probably more like eighty percent. So it's really reduced Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay. Leon Morales: our customer care side. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, okay. So can you give me some brief details about how did you come from the current state until you applied AI and then 75 % decreased? Leon Morales: Yeah. So yeah, so prior to that we would have, you know, people would start with our company, we'd do a two-day training and then they would know it. But there wasn't any there wasn't reference to it. So the person would go through the training, but they might forget. So that's what's really cut down the tr the tickets. So once we installed Gene AI into the system, and it's so easy to use, it's just like a chat bot. So it's very easy to use. The person can ask a question, it feels very interactive, it can help develop a script. or sort of a s you know, you know an understanding of how the two people can work together. So the efficiency of it has really been I mean it it i i it it it was you know a thousand percent ROI just installing gene for our company because it really cut down on the need. And it we didn't have to actually lay anybody off. We just redeployed some of the resources to work on more technical items that we were working on, some you know other AI projects that we do. And Julius, we use AI extensively here at DNA. We see it as a huge enabler in our company. And we are a small team, so we really believe that if we train our team to use AI and better solutions, it just makes us all better as a company. And so we we have sessions in our company where we spend time, you know, looking at a process and saying, can we solve this with AI? I think we always believe that AI should be monitored over by an individual, so we don't just let it run loose. it's important to have silver oversight for it. But everything we do in our company, we sort of always have an eye towards AI. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, so you already mentioned that. So you did not lay off anybody in your team. You deployed AI. Leon Morales: No. That's Julius Neil Buenconsejo: The efficiency increased by 75%. And then you just redeployed these people and retrained them for other things that would, you know, Leon Morales: We did. That's right. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: that, yeah, that would. So you are doing that, but some of the companies right now are not doing that. What is the, how do, for example, some companies, somebody, CEO, founders, do it, who is listening right now, what is your advice? How would they do that the way you did it in your team? Instead Leon Morales: I think Julius Neil Buenconsejo: of thinking, okay, I have to lay off 10 people because AI can do this, right? Yeah. Leon Morales: And and Julia said that's probably the one thing. You've got a CEO that, you know, goes to a conference and they hear that you can, you know, cut your expenses down by 50% if you do this. You just just buy a license. And it just doesn't work like that. You could never just throw AI at a solution because it's takes people to actually implement it. So it's really important that you do it. You have honest conversations with your team because you have Individuals on your team, and and this is another behavioral score, people that are very anchored, and anchored people do the same process over and over. They're very good at it. They they will always execute the same way. So you throw in AI and all of a sudden it turns their world upside down because they don't really know what I do with this solution. You know, my my my CEO says start implementing AI. I don't even know what to do. I need I need A, B, C, D, E, F, G versus you have somebody that's creative on the other side of that that can literally say, we're going to implement AI, and they do it. They start, you know, running some models and they start figuring out how to process and prove, but they don't document anything because they're very spontaneous. They don't necessarily document it. So that's what I've seen a lot of companies do, is they just throw AI AI at sort of the company. You know, everybody gets a license. But they don't really put the structure and the governance around it. And that's probably the most important part. Set up the framework to begin with so people know what to expect. And then s test them, you know, around sort of is this process, is that something we can really solve with AI? Because the models are always upgrading and getting better. But have a champion that's really good at AI that's helping to oversee a bit of that. So you don't have all of these nonstandard processes going on. You have sort of a a central theme around it. And the best companies I've seen do it are the ones that set up the committee and the structure to be able to do that. And they make everybody feel like they're part of the change. So it doesn't feel like they're all, you know, kind of fighting for their jobs. And that's how some of these companies have done it. They've gone in, they've laid off, you know, 15 people from the team. And I've seen a couple of them have to bring people back. And you can imagine how demoralizing that is. I've lost my job, now I'm back. How safe o am I in this company now? Because they've done it once, would they do it again? So I think you've got as as a leader, I think you've gotta be very mindful. Don't just expect AI to solve all the problems because it just won't it takes people to be able to do it and implement the right solution. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, so we've seen in the last few years that a lot of companies are spending a lot of money into AI, deploying that. And then you're saying that, you know, right now, most of the companies are now spending less actually. Is this a sign of maturity or what are the leaders Leon Morales: I think Julius Neil Buenconsejo: finally beginning to understand now? Leon Morales: I think it's a sign of maturity. It's a sign that, you know, hate AI do you can't just buy a license for everybody and expect it to change the organizations. In fact, it probably created a lot of new problems for the company. They're all of a sudden chasing, did it release confidential information? You know, there's just a lot of things. That's why the governance is so important. So I think that's what you're seeing, Julius, is that companies are being a little bit more mindful and putting some structure around implementing a AI because AI at this point is not going solve every problem, but it does create a lot of efficiencies. And if you're doing it the right way and overseeing it, it can be quite productive for the company. And you know, I'd like to think it doesn't mean that you can do a mass layoff. It does mean you may need to reshift some of the roles, as we talked about, a good role fit, you know, because somebody that I mentioned, you know, because of my accounting background, don't put me in the accounting sort of role, but help me on enterprise change. I'm very good at that. So that's probably the role you better I'd be better fit at. Maybe helping lead the governance team is a good role for me. So it's just making sure you have an eye towards that. And if the company's objective is, you know, to to to make sure that people are in the right roles and sometimes there's not a role for somebody, maybe they have to be sort of downsized. But do it in a very respectful way. That's not just, you know, ten people are gone and we don't even know what they did. 'Cause that's where you're gonna really hurt something in the company's not gonna there's gonna be an issue somewhere along the lines if you take that just you know, take take the you know, the chainsaw and just, you know, cut Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Leon Morales: cut people. It's never a good thing. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: In terms of AI ROI, what does that actually mean? So some people will say if it's ROI, it's more on financial or economics, or are there other ways of measuring the ROI in AI? Leon Morales: Yeah, I think I think there are. I think, you know, as I mentioned, you know, when we when we had our gene AI tool, we saw all of a sudden a huge drop in submitted tickets. So we were able to measure that. And it was pretty s pretty amazing because, you know, before that our team was working on solution questions most of the day. All of a sudden we weren't getting these questions in, you know. So we wanted to be sensitive to that, make sure people had meaningful work and there were things that we could do. But I think on the it's hard to just say You know, the our implementing AI is going to give us a twenty percent ROI on that. Cause I don't think it works quite like that. I think it's measuring it over a period of, you know, two months, three months and seeing that because sometimes it's just a blip, maybe you got an efficiency here, but it broke something else on the other side. So I think it's just important to monitor that. And you see it in, you know, in cost and productivity if you've got good art KPIs to be able to look at that. Are we running sort of the a a better operation, you know, month after month and you see that in, you know, in introducing new AI tools, because I think once your team has a good governance model, you're continuing to look at new processes that you can improve. And so overall, you're gonna see a better ROI return in the company because people now know how to approach problem solving, getting it sort of, you know, on the table and getting the requirements to the solution. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, so you mentioned about governance. many companies are just deep diving into AI, investing in that without governance. So for companies right now is thinking about AI or companies who are now struggling to have this governance, how do they design the framework in terms of the AI governance? Leon Morales: Yeah, I think it's it's probably something that is is very underutilized today because I think people just think you get an AI license and you can it can just figure it out. I actually just asked Claude or G you know ChatGPT to give you a framework. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah. Leon Morales: But I think it's a little bigger than that, because I think it's understanding the organizational structure that you have, because we all have a document repository and there's probably confidential information in some of those files that you don't want necessarily to be read. So think it's just taking an approach to see what is it that we really want to accomplish with using AI. And I would start small. I wouldn't just take on the whole company. I would take some process that's pretty simple, that's not has a lot of confidential information, and then work on that, you know, with a cross-functional team to be able to sort of solve the issue. You start building up confidence on that. So that AI governance model becomes more sort of part of the, you know, the company sort of philosophy around governance and we before we throw any one of the AI solutions at it, we got to make sure it meets this criteria that it's not going to be, you know, interacting with private files. It's not going to be, you know, financial information that we don't want to have. So it's really important to have the security around that and that governance before you just start throwing AI because we've known of a couple situations where, you know, these AI bots have been built and they've actually disclosed private information outside of the company. That's the last thing you want to do. You want to be a little bit more cautious real related to that. Tell your governance model, you know, and I believe in sign off. I think your your chairman or your president should sign off on sort of the governance model because if they don't, you know, there's it can come back on them. And it's important that they know what what what's involved in the governance process, because maybe they from their vantage point, they may see there's a bit of a gap here. We need to make sure we close this down, or the legal group, something that really helps them understand. the severity of, you know, of leaked information. It's really quite important to just make sure you've got solid. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: To your point, I've seen a lot of consultants and the clients that I have. Whenever they talk about AI governance, it's more on about the compliance and also the usage of the tools. It's not actually what you're talking about. You need to have the framework, you need to analyze the structure of the organization, and it differs depending on the organization. how you would like to structure that. But most of the time when I see their governance, it's mostly you cannot use this, this, this, and this, only use this, this, this official, you know, official things. So how do you think should, you know, how do you think should companies approach the AI governance holistically? Not just using out, not just using personal AI chat bot or our cloud or chat GPT, we cannot use that or only Microsoft products. Leon Morales: Yeah. Yeah. So I think I think it is really of a a big, you know, it's almost like hiring a person in your team. I think it's putting together sort of a cross-functional team of your legal, sort of your operations team to really look at what are we trying to solve by implementing AI and what access do we want it to have in the company? Cause you know, there are settings in the AI tools to be able to know what it's going to read and what it's not going to. And there are certain boundaries that you don't want it to have. You know, there you are the boundaries that you do want it to have, so it's not reading confidential information. And I think that's where a lot of companies get into into trouble is that they just turn it on and they don't really realize what they just turned on. And that you can't take it back once it's on, right? I mean, that's being a little bit more mindful about you know what access does it have. And that's why I'm a big believer of set up the framework so you can do maybe a department where you're trying to solve an issue maybe that's not working so well, and learn from that. Because you're gonna learn a lot around how you know the sophistication of your systems. Because you usually if you're working with a Microsoft shop or a Google shop, Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Leon Morales: you've got to make sure that that priority and that security is set up correctly. So I think it's not just a matter of just assigning a cloud license or a j a a Chat GPT license. You've got a lot of integration points that you've got to work through. So keeping it small, measured is really important. And you do not have to hire an AI expert. I mean, I think a lot of times you know, people that have a little bit more of technical background and they understand how the Microsoft or the Google shop is set up, they really know sort of those those things to be able to configure because it's important in the configuration that you get it right. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, okay. So you also mentioned about people before numbers. What does it mean in the AI Leon Morales: Yes. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: world right Leon Morales: So yeah, people before numbers, because you know, we're all individuals and this is even before AI, but you know, as I mentioned, I'm an accountant by my by training, so many times people think accountants are just numbers focused, but ever behind every number there's a person, right? There's something that's kind of coming together. And I think that's understanding, you know, individuals on the whether it's a client or a team member, really understanding are they sort of in a role that they, you know, are gonna be successful. If it's a client role, because we work with a lot of clients that use the financial DNA program, and we do it from understanding their financial behavior. Because if you've got somebody that's very focused on the numbers, let's say that's a client that's very numbers focused, but their spouse is very focused on the relationship. You have a, you know, for the advisor, for the for the individual, you can probably have a conversation with one of them easily. And the other one more difficult. So it's important to really understand people, what they bring and what they're doing before the numbers. Cause, you know, that's that's the one thing we've I've learned in this business. Cause the client relationships, even the most number focused person has something, the reason they're like that is they're wired that way. So make sure you're sort of appealing to that. And that gets back to that behavioral style match that we talked about. If because I'm probably going to be more sort of in line with the you know, an a a a results person versus the Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Leon Morales: relational person, 'cause I might see them as too emotional or too, you know, too chatty. They might be a little bit very communicative. but Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Leon Morales: I need to n understand that. That's why understanding people before numbers is before you even start a relationship is important. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, so can you, for example, you've been dealing with data ever since, even before AI. So I'd just like to ask, can you have a perfect data and still make a terrible decision? Leon Morales: That's a great question, Julius. yeah, that's wow. I I think you can. I think, you know, I you can analysis paralysis if you've heard of that term before. I Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Leon Morales: think sometimes there is a behavioral bias where you can get into it's like a fear of regret. so you'll analyze it over and over and over again and never pull the trigger to make the decision. and that gets back to, you know. you're sort of lost in your own thinking around it. And that's where an advisor or a coach or somebody that's external that you trust, it's a trusted advisor, that can help unlock that to make the decision. They don't you're you're responsible for the decision, but they can help give you sort of the mirror that helps you think through it. It's almost like looking in a mirror, asking the question. And that's where an advisor coach can be quite important. Cause even though if I'm the most results focused person, I might have a decision that I feel like I've got all the data, but I'm hesitant to make the decision because I need that sounding board. So I think that's what you can get. It can you could you can make a bad decision because you're an analysis paralysis. Does that make sense? Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, Yes, it makes sense. So in terms of AI, so I'd like to know your view on this. Do you think AI is the limit itself or it is our understanding as users using AI? Leon Morales: You know, since we've all been using AI now for probably with a better about eighteen months, what I have Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Leon Morales: noticed, Julius, is that you know, I think when first we started using Chad GPT or Claude, you know, we were all s mesmerized by what it was producing, right? Now Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, yeah. Leon Morales: we're all becoming sophisticated in our own abilities to see it. So sometimes we're actually thinking, Well, this is giving me exactly what I want. It's almost like I'm the witness leading to the answer. So you're not necessarily trustful of it. So you might actually Test a couple of the AI chats. But I think Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Leon Morales: what it's doing, in my mind, it's helping us be more cognitive, cognitive in our own thinking around it. It's it's a good enabler. I think AI is a wonderful tool to be able to bounce ideas. Hey, I've got this company I'm thinking about as a prospect. I need a little intelligence around the company. It gives me information, but I have to use that information in a way that's gonna be to connect to the to the either the leaders of the company. So I think we can't over rely on it. And I think that's one of the things we've got to be very careful as a human as a human race is we've got to recognize that AI is a great enabler, but it should never be the total solution. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, yeah, I know, I know. I also agree with you with that. So you should be an enabler. It's not the way it's not. We cannot say that I will destroy humanity. So that's for me. Leon Morales: Yeah, I Julius Neil Buenconsejo: It's not like that. It's not like that. Leon Morales: Yeah, and and I think it's, you know, as we've been seeing that, you know, AI in the last in the media in the last few months that AI is gonna kill us. I mean, it could could could hurt a lot of people. I believe that it can if it's not used in the right manner. But I think there's always going to be a a level of discernment for people around how they use it. I think there's going to be, you know, we'll probably and I've even seen this with young people that they actually have tech days where they unplug completely from tech. So they don't wanna be around it, you know, they wanna go in in not even around their phones. And I think that's kind of where we're going with the maturity of around it. I'm not saying that we're not gonna have AI 'cause we are, but I think people are gonna be a little bit more discerning before they just take on something and just throw AI at the solution. But but we can't we can't put the genie back in the bottle as we say, 'cause AI is is here to stay. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah. Yeah. So you also talk about AI anxiety. So what is it? What is AI anxiety for Leon? Leon Morales: you know, I think it's probably around the governance in in releasing information that, you know, was not meant to be released. That's probably the anxiety I would have around it, you know. It's and I'm Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay. Leon Morales: a pretty big remember, I'm a big risk taker, but I just, you know, the sensitivity with confidential information. I'm a big believer of, you know, confidential conversations with people. because if you don't have it like if you and I have a very trustful relationship and I release something that you you and I talked about that breaches our trust and you would never trust me again. And so th that type of information, I mean, that's just an example of it. But I think that's what my anxiety would be around is releasing Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Leon Morales: information that really wasn't meant to be released. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So can you give me an example, like in some of your clients who are doing this behavioral testing analysis, is there a point where they ask you, are you using AI? Are they receptive about using this because this is AI or something like that? Leon Morales: Yeah, and and we are we're very transparent about that, Julius. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Leon Morales: So in our original model that we launched back 20 years ago, it's a it's a 10-minute discovery process that you go through. But through AI, we've been able to really process and prove mat prove that to where we have 17 questions instead of instead of 46. Takes three minutes versus 10 to complete, and you get a very high confidence level, like 95%. So it's still very, very high. That's one. We also have another solution we call digital scan, which doesn't require any questions. I can just put your name in to my my digital scan program and it's gonna give me a pretty close match to your behavior. It's gonna give me and I Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Hmm Leon Morales: love to use that sort of as, you know, kind of an onboarding or getting to know you. But I would still want you to go through at least the seventeen questions of the forty six, because that really gives me an idea of how you're you're you're you're you're consenting to your natural wiring and who you are. So we have had a lot of success with digital scan. I think it's a great program, but we're always very transparent around what we do as a company, because I think it's very important. And the one thing that, you know, nobody's been able to really solve except DNA is this notion of financial behavior, the psychometrics around are you is Julius a spender or is Julius a saver? You know, we're able to see that in the data and it's pretty remarkable to be able to see that. Nobody else would be able to figure that out, even some of the best AI tools. Yeah. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Wow, I'm so impressed. Leon Morales: Yeah, it's it's pretty cool. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: It's pretty cool. So we talk about AI governance. in your app now, in your model, how do you implement the AI governance of that? Because you are dealing, for example, thousands of companies. And then, Leon Morales: Yes. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: of course, they will have their own data. How would you tell these companies that, OK, your data is yours? It's safe? and nobody beside you will be able to have access to it. Leon Morales: Yeah, so we are in a full Microsoft shop. You know, it's Microsoft is quite secure. We've never had any data breaches and all that. And we also are very much around the client owns the data. So if we actually have a client that's, you know, or an individual that's gone through a process and they want us to remove all of their data, we legally have to do that through GDPR. That's very important that we don't keep information that, you know, is not It's because it's really the client's information. The other one that I think is is very important is DNA behavior has never ever and will never sell data about an individual. We do for research purposes. We use sort of and I mentioned the you know, the reflective thinkers, the initiator. We do that for research purposes, but it's anonymized. We never use anybody's name because that's really sort of a breach and we we're very respectful. You should never use somebody's information on them against them. It's be only that's why Hugh Massey started this company was he wanted people to go through this process to become self empowered in their own sort of natural behavior. But you shouldn't feel like you're being it's being used against you. That's why it's so important to know what that wiring is for yourself. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, so that's good that the clients of yours are very safe and secure and they know that you're not using their data. Yeah, Leon Morales: Absolutely. Yeah. It's a it's a core value for us. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: so once you have identified, for example, in one organization, is it just a one-time commitment that you have to do or there's still a follow-up? So, yeah. Leon Morales: Yeah. That's a great question, Julius. So once you complete the natural behavior, you only have to take it one time in your life. And I have taken it probably fifty different times. But my original result from twenty eleven, in August of twenty eleven when I completed it, is still so accurate. You know, that was, you know, seventeen years ago that I took it. You know. And it's so accurate. That's why you only have to do it one time. But the great thing about it, Julius, is I can use it like with our when we onboard a new team member, we can do the style match. I can see, okay, here's my behavior compared to sort of the individual. We're a seventy percent match. Here's what that means. so the applications of it can be used over and over again in different scenarios for different people, different clients. You know, it's it's it's the ability to sort of use that data, you know, for better what I call emotional intelligence, actually helping us in better relationships with an individual. If I have somebody that's a twenty five percent match, I can guarantee you it's gonna be a struggle for us. But if I know this before going into the relationship, I'm cognizant of that person has a very different style than me. So I gotta make sure I'm being attentive to that. And hopefully they are with me as well. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Have you had a client or a company that has signed up for you that is also at the same time adopting AI adoption, their AI adoption project, and you're able to correlate that based on your behavioral analysis of that company that this company is going to have a hard time doing the AI adoption versus this is the result, we're 100 % sure that this AI adoption is going to be successful. Because you know Leon Morales: Yeah. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: what I mean, right? So there's a connection on that. Leon Morales: Yeah, I mean, Julius, a good example of that. Let's say the top 10 people in the company, you know, they're getting they're doing it a big initiative. So we can look at the data of the 10 individuals which have the most influence over this AI project, right? So when we look at that, if that team leans more to that anchored side versus creative, meaning every member on their team is pretty anchored, and that d we do see that sometimes, they're gonna have a hard time with the AI project. If they're a whole creative team, like every person on the team is creative, they're probably gonna have a tough time because they are so creative. They're always changing it up. So you've got to have a balance of that. And there's some things that you could really look at in the in that team of 10 to say, are they going to be successful with this AI project? Or where are they going to have problems with it? And I can guarantee you we could look at a team report and I could tell you they're going to struggle with these things in this in this in this AI adoption. Pretty fascinating. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: That's reason why I ask you this because you can also help, for example, companies to be able to predict if this tiering committee will be able to move through this project. Leon Morales: Exactly. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: That's why I ask that because it would be quite interesting because in my years of experience, I've seen different teams and different teams that are very high performer, but still they cannot achieve something. And you don't know why. Why is it this guy, you know, Leon is very good. Julius is very, very well forward thinker. The team is very, you know, very positive and still fails. Right. Leon Morales: Yeah. And in and Julius, we could see it in that team report. And I can guarantee you we could look at that team of ten and I could point out where there's going to be a problem. You and you may not even present the issue to me. You may say, Can you look at this and where is this team going to have a problem? And I can usually identify it looking at that team of ten. If I've got a team of four hundred people, that would be hard for me to see because it kind of blends all the scores. But a team of ten is ideal. We can look at that. And typically That's how teams work. They're teams of ten or twelve or eight. But you can look at it, you can identify where there's gonna be a problem in the team. Are they too communicative? Are they totally spontaneous? Are they too anchored? There are things that you can see right in that team report that'll help identify can this team be successful with this AI initiative? And I've done it many times with teams. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: I think your model, the things that you are doing now, it's not only applicable to big companies. I think you can also do it in a startup setup. Right? Because if you're Leon Morales: totally, totally. 'Cause yeah, absolutely. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: building a team, you just say, okay, Leon, we wanted to know if this going to be, I'm building this type of startup team that's going Leon Morales: Right. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: to move us to the next 10 years. Can you help me find those persons in one team? Leon Morales: Absolutely. And it's fun. It's actually can be very fun. So you pull that team together, that startup, and you can look at it. And Julius, this is where a lot of CEOs of that startup run into issues because they hire people just like themselves because that's a good behavioral match. But let's say you have five initiators. and if you remember the company Uber when it first started, do you remember Uber? Do Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah. Leon Morales: you remember they ran into a lot of problems at the very beginning Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yes. Leon Morales: of their CEO? It's because That CEO hired people very much like themselves, and they were so bold and so sort of pioneering, but they were not being very relational with their team and they had a lot of issues that ran into it yet. And then they they recovered because they started recognizing they to put some governance around it. But if they had actually knew, okay, we need to really make sure this team's optimized and we're working on the right things around the governance model or people and you know, respecting people. you would have been able to sort of change that dynamic without a getting to a big press fiasco. So it's really quite Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay. Leon Morales: interesting that the CEOs who have the most authority hire people a lot like themselves because they just naturally with them. Yeah. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yes, yeah now I understand now I understand because for example if I'm going to hire somebody in one position I actually wanted somebody who is like me but some Leon Morales: You you want it to be that's right, you want it to be somebody that's gonna be a right fit for that role. And you may not actually have the best communication with that individual. Let's say you're a forty percent match, but that person needs to be, you know, a behavioral high fit for the role, but I just I don't connect with them as easily because they they're doing a customer care role where I'm leading the strategy. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, is your model going to be accepted in any industry, any type of organization? Leon Morales: It is. It's amazing. I mean, 'cause 'cause Julius, it's human beings. It's working people. I think you have certain roles that may have a different benchmark that, you know, maybe in one accountant in in a manufacturing business might be a slightly different in a consulting business, but it's gonna be pretty much the same. But there may be some nuances with it. But the behavior I always say if there are two people working together, the DNA insights can add value to that to that equation. And and as our CEO always is likes to say, one plus one equals three because you're you're bringing together the strengths and they're actually multiplying. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: hypothetically, so if you walk into a company tomorrow and then the CEO said, Leon, we're struggling to get our people to adopt AI. So what would you want them to do before, I mean, before suggesting a single training program? Leon Morales: Yeah, so the first thing I would have is take the DNA discovery because everybody really should learn their strengths. And and Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Leon Morales: and sometimes what's interesting, Julius, is we see people that go through this process and they realize they aren't a very good fit for the role that they're doing. They they literally and I mentioned that project manager role. You know, I'm so spontaneous and creative that I'm, you know, managing the Microsoft project is really hard for me. It takes a lot of energy. I'm just not naturally gifted to be able to do that. Sometimes light bulbs go off with the individual before they even the team. But I think you have to do it in a very respectful way that you know, going through a team event, you can start recognizing what role people have in the company. And it and it it's subtle changes that I've always seen where you keep the same ten people, but you make my modifications with the type of work that they're doing. And you can usually lead to a good result. Cause I've not really seen anybody go through this where they're not adopting an AI strategy. And they just believe every team member needs to go. I've never seen that. I think if you use the DNA insights or any sort of discovery process, you start learning about how people are wired, are they doing the t right types of work that they're that they're gifted to do? You know, natural God given talents. Sometimes they just don't even know because nobody's ever showed them data to should suggest otherwise. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, so we're talking about, you know, because most of the organizations are moving towards AI and then moving towards AI adoption. And then I would like to know about your product. So what does a behaviorally intelligent AI strategy look like? Leon Morales: Yes. So it is using behavioral insights, you know, as part of that, because I think that's really a critical piece. So me, I'm a big believer of sharing my information. You know, I'm I'm an initiator. I'm also quite group oriented. That's one of my my my strengths. Some people may see it as a s a s a struggle because I like working in teams. That's more naturally my style of working in teams. Somebody that's really self-reliant doesn't really like working in teams. They kind of work like working by themselves. You start seeing some patterns of behavior that help an individual understand, okay, I've got to give this person some maybe some reserve time versus, you know, somebody that's more communicative, they need more communication. So you start learning some of these patterns and it just helps optimize the team, you know, learning the respect of of, you know, how people are working together to to adopt the strategy that you're trying to implement. Cause I think that's the one thing you can't just paint everybody with the same brush. I think that's one thing that's always a a struggle for a lot of leaders. They think people think like they do and they don't. They are very uniquely wired to be able to do certain things. And sometimes we put them in a role that they just aren't successful with. But sometimes people are not comfortable to say that's not a good role for me. So you've got to be very careful. And the data the data shows the behavioral intelligence shows if somebody's gonna be naturally wired to do things. The adapters, the one I mentioned earlier, the adapter can be the chameleon, they can do a lot of different things, so they can be kind of a plug-in anywhere, but the other unique nine styles have unique gifts to be able to do certain roles. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, so this another question. Can AI make us better at being human? Leon Morales: I think so. You know why? You know why, Julius? Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah. Leon Morales: Because I believe that we're at an age today where, you know, with screen pop and the ability to see information, it's a reminder because I said earlier, check yourself before you wreck yourself. You know, that's kind of our tagline. If you're not Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Leon Morales: careful, if you sort of overplay your strength, sometimes that can lead to disaster because y you know, in my risk taking, I could make decisions that may not be the best. So I always have to use that, balance that. So I think it's important now with technology, we can see this behavior pop up or give us cues. Even our AI agent could be trained to understand our behavior to say, Leon, maybe you shouldn't make that decision because maybe you need to think about this step and this step and this step, which would be great for me to have. It's almost like a check yourself before you wreck yourself notification that helps. So that's why I think technology and AI are converging. And they're gonna make us better as a workforce. I absolutely believe that. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: What's your take on the people who are now using AI as a therapist? So for example, somebody has some kind of problem, some kind of depression, they don't want to go to the doctor, human doctors, And have some conversation face to face because maybe personally they don't want other people to know that and then they're now going into AI. Since you are on the behavioral side, so maybe there's some connection on this one. Leon Morales: Yeah, and that's gets to ethical AI, Julius, which I'm a big believer of ethical AI. I Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Leon Morales: think we have to be careful because you know, there's certain personalities that are a little bit more prone to addiction. and you know, that's where addiction, you know, you've heard of porn addiction and alcohol addiction, but there could be AI addiction that you sort of become so enamored with this this chat bot that becomes sort of more of a personal relationship. And that's a hard one to know what what's what's what's the boundary of that. But I think, you know, if you're actually working with somebody that seems to be sort of in that place, you should never call them out, say you're addicted to AI, because that's a really bad thing to do. But I think Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Leon Morales: it's it's nothing will ever replace the heart in AI. so that's what that's what gives us the unique edge as human beings with AI, is because you and I can have a very human conversation around it. You can actually be gentle with me around, hey, I just you know, observe these things and using words like that, observe that maybe this is, you know, you you should maybe talk to someone or or develop a conversation with them that they feel like it's a safe place for them to actually discuss. Cause there are a lot of people that would be very reserved. They may not feel comfortable to actually tell a human being. So they're relying on this AI tool. And it's it's it's gonna be a problem. It will be a problem longer term for people that have grown up with technology and they become reliant on it. And that's where again, I think, I think our safeguard here is ethical AI, to know you've got to sort of if you're an AI sort of agent, you should be telling the person to talk to someone human and not rely Julius Neil Buenconsejo: you Leon Morales: on a technology. I know that's probably not happening today, but I would love to see Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Ha Leon Morales: that. And that's why I do say it's ethical AI, because I think these These AI tools can be used for good and they can be used for bad. And I'm I'm a big believer of, you know, we're in a world where we should be helping people become self empowered, helping them grow as an individual. I think that's what our purpose is here on this earth is to help other people and and make this a better place to live. And I know that sounds a bit altruistic, but I'd love to see the ethical AI boundaries in place because I do worry about that, a bit on that AI addiction. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, follow up on that. Could you do you think AI could actually make relationships feel more personal or the opposite? Leon Morales: Do. Absolutely. I do. I mean, you know, I use AI all the tool and I do feel like it's been a great enabler for me. I recognize it's a machine. I always keep that at the top of my mind. And I've got friends that use AI and they use it more of as a companion, you know, around around sort of bouncing ideas off. But I think even the people that I've interfaced with, I think it helps reason things. That's what I love about AI is I might be in my little vacuum around my thoughts, but sometimes Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Leon Morales: it does give me some thinking that I hadn't thought of before. And that's what I Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Leon Morales: love about it. It's like a starter, because I hate writing emails right from scratch. And AI helps me really seed that conversation. I can just put some thoughts in. It helps me really think through things. That's what I love about AI. I consider it a, you know, a partner around sort of helping me unlock some of the things that I might be thinking, but I would never rely on it a hundred percent. It always needs Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay. Leon Morales: it always needs to be my work at the end of the day. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, this is one of the few topics I wanted to discuss. So I would like to ask you, where should we use AI? Leon Morales: Ooh. Well that's a great question. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Because we're saying, use AI this, this, and that. So there's also, there is no guideline for people to say, you shouldn't use AI for this type of task or for this type of activities or, you know. Leon Morales: Yeah. I I think you know I think we're still figuring out all the boundaries around what it should Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-mm. Leon Morales: know and what it shouldn't know. I think, you know, attaching all of your bank accounts and you know, anything that's really sort of confidential around your your finances and all that is is something I wouldn't feel comfortable to do at this point. unless it's certified that, you know, it's it's safe. 'Cause I just worry sometimes that it gets in the wrong hands of individuals. So I think that's that's one area that I'd really caution people to be very careful and be discerning around it. I think the other one, Julius, is around it's it's great to be able to use the information, you know, with personal relationships, but I wouldn't use it as a marriage counselor tool. I wouldn't use it sort of to try to dissect my sort of family. You know, I think it's important just have a little bit of the discernment. It's great. It's an enabler and all that. But I think when it comes into Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Leon Morales: personal relationships, you know, human beings are meant to communicate, to be community sort of connections. I think Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Leon Morales: that that would be another purpose where you probably would not want to use it to r over rely on. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, okay. I was surprised when you said that about the marriage concept because I had a previous podcast guest. She is from the Netherlands and she's from, says also some CXO before. And it's the opposite. know, whenever she doesn't understand her husband, she uses AI and she said it help her to be able to, you know, to connect with her husband. Leon Morales: I I could see where it can. I think it can get Julius Neil Buenconsejo: huh. Leon Morales: a little biased on it, but you know, as Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Leon Morales: long as both parties are sort of having fun with it, that Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Leon Morales: could probably helps helps in it. But I wouldn't over rely on it. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, yeah, I understand. Also, I'm going to ask you a few questions about, you know, about AI. So just these few questions before we go to the rapid tech next. So AI replacing jobs, overhype, underhype, or misunderstood? Leon Morales: I absolutely believe it's gonna change jobs. Absolutely, Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Leon Morales: Julius. I think it's going to eliminate jobs that I would consider to be very repetitive type roles. I think that's one of the things I've been a big proponent of is teaching people that learn AI. I'm a big believer of everybody should learn AI because you it's coming, it's never gonna stop, it's gonna be here. So learn how to retrain yourself. And what's interesting in the world is everybody's on an equal platform right now because we all have to relearn some things that we didn't know 10 years ago. So it's going to change jobs. We can't be in a silo around that. We've got to believe that it's going to change. But we should not be scared of it. We should be embracing it and learning it. And the number one job I keep hearing is a prompt engineer type job. Prompting is really where the world's going and learn that. That's really important to be able to do that. Because every person has unique abilities and there is a role. It's just don't get so fearful that your job is going to be eliminated. Because there are going to be jobs that are changing. and not all of them will be eliminated, but there will be a number of them that are are going to be eliminated. It's just the way that technology works. I mean, it it you know, w we used to be Nervous twenty years ago when the internet was first sort of a big thing, is it gonna change Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, Leon Morales: or eliminate jobs? Well it didn't. It just changed the way we do what we're Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, AI anxiety, is it a technology problem or human problem? Leon Morales: God, that's a good question, Julius. I think it's a human problem because I think AI can hallucinate as we know. And I Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Leon Morales: think it does get into an AI, how you implement it. So I think the anxiety around it is really more about just understanding what the power of it is. And it's changing every day. We have these new releases that come out. So it's just keep it it's hard to keep up with all of it. All the changes. I'm a big believer of learn it, continue to build your knowledge of it, keep track of sort of the the new innovations that are coming along. But, you know, worrying about it is never gonna solve the issue. I think you've got to recognize it's here to stay. And if you do have anxiety around it, I think it's learning how to decompress. Like I said, having that no technology day is probably a good thing. Just plug unplugging from technology for a day Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Leon Morales: can probably be a good therapy. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, behavioral data, competitive advantage or ethical minefield. Leon Morales: Ooh. wow. Boy, you're giving me some stumpers here, Julius. I Julius Neil Buenconsejo: You Leon Morales: would think it's a huge opportunity, but I could see where it could really be an ethical problem if people are not using it in the right manner. And I would love to say that DNA behavior, if we have any sort of partnership opportunities, we sort of require that to be an ethical sort of relationship with with the company. Cause we never want to be using data against an individual. That's like that to me is like preying on an individual. An example of that would be if somebody is very cooperative and I'm take charge and I feel like I've got an advantage to take advantage of that individual, that's unethical in my mind and we should never do that ever. I should just know that person is a little bit more on the cooperative side. So I need to kind of adapt my behavior to do that, to work with that individual. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, financial advisors, what will separate the great advisors from everyone else in the AI world? Leon Morales: I I do love talking about that. So I think, you know, financial advisors, their role has changed a lot. They they are really almost like a human coach to the client because in the end, we all want to make money. And making money, as I mentioned earlier about saving versus spender, what we see often, Julius, is that savers typically will save. And if they're under stress, they're gonna save even more. They're gonna be stressed, so they won't actually spend money. That's kind of a behavioral bias that they have is they will want to save more, like they're almost like a scarcity mentality as they get nervous around it, versus the spender when they're stressed, they want to spend more money. It's almost like a stress behavior, an outlet to spend money. You've heard of shopping therapy. You know, that's what that's what Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Leon Morales: spenders do. So you have this, you know, spender versus saver. And where a financial advisor can be really imperative is to help the individuals recognize what that behavior is. And help them recognize, hey, you can't spend everything. You've got to sort of, you know, recognize there's a future here. So being able to spend. But for the saver, recognize that it's about life experiences because you don't want to end up at the end of your life and have all this money and you've never spent any of it because you've been so worried about saving it. They look they can become a a much better human coach to help that individual become more comfortable that you can spend some money or you need to save some money. And that's where I think the advisor's role becomes more in a as a a human advisor than because AI is wonderful, but there's nothing like a heart coming and helping a person understand, you know, their behavioral biases and helping them really with their family, their life situation, helping them really achieve their goals. And I think that's where the financial advisors of the future are going to make the biggest impact on individuals and families. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, last one before I wrap it in the next. One AI investment if you had 100,000 US dollars right now and one year to create measurable AI value in a company, where would you put it? Leon Morales: So being biased here at DNA Behavior, my recommendation Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Uh-huh. Leon Morales: would be to invest in what we call a behavioral operating system. And what that means, Julius, is really Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Leon Morales: using the behavioral information in sort of, you know, with everyone in the organization to really optimize. I'm having a digital twin for Leon Morales to help me when I mentioned making decisions that I can bounce ideas off of that individual. Doesn't mean that I rely over rely on it, but a behavioral operating system makes decision making for me, it's almost like a mirror being able to help me through my decision making around it and giving me suggestions. So my recommendation would be investing in a behavioral operating system. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Alright, let's go to the rapid 10 next round. These are 10 questions about AI. remember one. What's one AI tool you actually use every day? Leon Morales: Chat GPT, absolutely. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: What's one task AI has already 10x'd in your life? Leon Morales: gosh. An account remember I told you I was an accountant and Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Leon Morales: I did I did actually consolidate sort of a whole you know it would have taken me six months to do and it did it in ten minutes. A whole consolid. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Wow! Leon Morales: Yeah, it was amazing, Julius. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: It's not even 10x. Yeah. Leon Morales: That was a thousand X. I was I was totally impressed. It was a Sunday morning and I I it was like an a whole accounting program and I developed it in ten minutes. It was it was amazing. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, so what's one human skill AI can never replace? Leon Morales: Heart, heart, 'cause it can never emulate the human emotion around it. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: If you could automate one annoying thing forever, what would it be? Leon Morales: I would say managing my calendar. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Ha Okay, so what's the biggest misconception about AI right now? Leon Morales: I think probably th the an AI anxiety anxiety that you mentioned, I think there are a lot of people that are so anxious around it 'cause they just don't understand it. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: What advice would you give someone who wants to become 10x starting today? Leon Morales: I would say understand your behavior first is the biggest thing. because if you know what that is and sort of what you're planning to do, you'll know an example of that, somebody that's really spontaneous, you have to be planned at that. But if I know I'm really spontaneous, I know I need a partner that's gonna help me to ten X. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mmm, I tell you that you should listen to him because like I told a while ago I'm almost always struggling to do that But he lived that you know from a accountant to behavioral you know behavioral work, okay Yeah, Leon Morales: Exactly. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: what would you tell your younger self about the future? Leon Morales: Gosh, I ask my st I do that all the time, Julius. I I do. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Really? Okay, okay. Leon Morales: I do. I wake up every morning thinking, What my younger self? Because I'm a big believer of that. It just helps us sort of think through problems. But I would say I probably would have studied behavioral science a lot earlier in my life. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Okay, what? Leon Morales: I'm I'm excited about being where I am, but thinking that the possibilities, you know, if I'd really understood that earlier on in my career. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, that's good. So what's one book, podcast, or resource that shaped your thinking about AI or innovation? Leon Morales: wow. You know, I'm a huge Tony Robbins fan around sort of his ability. It was really more about self-empowerment around it. But are you familiar familiar with Mind Valley? I would say Vision Vision. I would Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yes, yeah, yeah. Vision, it's vision, right? Yeah, it's vision, yeah. Leon Morales: say he's really been quite an influence on me, and I really like how he has helped the world think about AI in a different way. So I follow a lot of his podcasts, and I think he's really helped that. Tony was early on. sort of just really understanding unlimited power. That was something that was quite important for me early in my career. But I think vision just has such a great outlook on where we're going in the world. And I I I really follow his podcasts. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, if you had to bet on one AI trend that will be massive in three years, what is it? Leon Morales: On an AI training? Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Hmm. Yeah. Leon Morales: I would say today it would probably be Claude at work would be probably the biggest sort of training, learning, because it's got such power to it. And I've I mean, some of the things that we've created, Julius, Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Leon Morales: that used to take six months to develop, we're doing in like two days. It's it's fascinating Julius Neil Buenconsejo: and Leon Morales: to me. It's fascinating how fast it is. And we've got in and these are people that are not programmers. They're they've got they've learned a prompt. They've been on our team. We've train them to do that and they can turn a dashboard around in in literally forty minutes. That's how fast it can be. And I that's what I get excited about about these solutions. So I think Claude at work, anything you can do with and I think chats catch, you they're very similar in their sort of how they're they're being sort of programmed, but I just think Claude seems seems to be pretty easy and, you know, it's it's it's worth the investment of time to learn it. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: In one sentence, what does 10x mean to you personally? Leon Morales: I think it actually means thinking big bigger. I think a lot of times we think very in a linear, you know, I've you know, I've got I've gotta make this amount of money or I've gotta make this sort of project. And I think 10x in my mind, Julius, is that we think a better strategy around it because the world's changing so fast that, you know, kind of not just thinking about what I've got in front of me today. I think you've got to step back, think about what does my world look like in three years. And that's why I like Vision, because he thinks about three years in the future. You know, thinking about what what your life is going to look like or what your business is going to look like in three years. And we don't know what the AI models are going to look like in three years, but I think when you start shaping your mind around what we can do in three years, that reality become can really become true if you think bigger. And I think that's really what Ten X means in my mind. is thinking bigger than just what's in front of us today or tomorrow. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, so all right, thank you very much for that. So if there are founders, company owners, and then some executives who are listening to this podcast right now, and they wanted to implement the behavioral models that their company is offering, how can they connect with you? Leon Morales: There's couple ways to do that, Julius. One is you can find me on LinkedIn, Leon Morales, Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mmm. Leon Morales: and I always connect with individuals that because I love talking about behavior. It's something that I just love talking about. So I'm always having great, grateful to have a conversation. You can find us at dnabehavior.com. You can also find us. We developed a consumer app. It's go dna.ai. GoDNA.ai. You can actually take a bit a behavioral up to five behavioral profiles. on that website and you can actually learn a little bit about you or maybe somebody in your company you can do a digital scan. So that's a great way to learn what we do. I'm always open for a conversation. You can book a meeting with me from our website. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, all right, thank you very much. I really enjoyed our conversation. A lot of our conversations are all over the places, but it's very fruitful and very insightful. And I think it's part of the whole package because AI is not only technology, it's all about the behaviors of people. And then when it comes to adoption, the behaviors of the organizational executives, the people you are putting in the organization. I think like what you said, people before number. I think it should be behaviors before AI adoption. So that's what I think. Yeah, that's what I say. Yeah. Leon Morales: I totally agree with you. We're definitely in unity on that, Julius. So thank you very much. It's been an honor to be here with you today. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah. All right. Thank you very much. So everyone, thanks for watching 10xAI. Remember, the future doesn't belong to AI. It belongs to the people who use it. See you next episode.