Latest / The Action Catalyst / The Courage to Have the Conversation, with Karin Hurt and David Dye (Conflict Resolution, Teams, Relationships, Leadership)

Transcript

The Courage to Have the Conversation, with Karin Hurt and David Dye (Conflict Resolution, Teams, Relationships, Leadership) · The Action Catalyst

• 0:00
  Stephanie Maas: So, you all do a lot together. That is my
• 0:02
  understanding on your background that y'all really do a lot
• 0:04
  together. But I'm not going to start there. Instead, what I'd
• 0:07
  really love to start with is a little bit about your journey to
• 0:12
  this book, powerful phrases for dealing with workplace conflict,
• 0:17
  I would be curious to see if you really believe it's growing? Or
• 0:20
  if it's something we're just more, you know, talking more
• 0:22
  about?
• 0:23
  Karin Hurt: Yeah. So it's interesting, we thought, hmm,
• 0:27
  are we really the right people to write this book, you know,
• 0:29
  because, you know, there's a, we're a husband and wife team,
• 0:33
  having just, you know, gone through the stress of the
• 0:36
  pandemic, are we always perfect at managing conflict ourselves?
• 0:39
  Right. So that was our first thing. But we talk about how
• 0:43
  important it is to have candid conversations. It's really, all
• 0:46
  right, we're not perfect at it. But we really do it the deep is
• 0:49
  heart of hearts believe that these conversations are so
• 0:52
  critical. But let's really to your point, is conflict actually
• 0:56
  getting worse? Why are people thinking this? So let's do some
• 0:59
  research. And that led us to do the world workplace conflict and
• 1:03
  collaboration of research to really ground the book. So we
• 1:07
  understood what was going on? Is conflict actually getting worse?
• 1:11
  And if it is, why, and what are some of the dynamics at play?
• 1:15
  And then the so what so what do we need to be doing differently?
• 1:19
  Now? What has changed? And what is the approach to these
• 1:21
  conversations need to look like?
• 1:23
  David Dye: Well, if we dive into the research, the short answer
• 1:26
  to that question about is it getting worse and so forth? You
• 1:29
  know, the conflict is a part of human experience. And I think
• 1:33
  that's one of the things is we set the table for talking about
• 1:36
  workplace conflict, it's a part of being human, we're going to
• 1:39
  have conflict, the question is, is it going to be destructive?
• 1:42
  Or can it be constructive and productive and collaborative and
• 1:45
  help us achieve new ideas and better workplaces and more
• 1:49
  effective efficient teams and better service? So the key for
• 1:53
  all of that is how we're going about it. So when we dive into
• 1:55
  the research, one of the questions that we asked is, Are
• 1:58
  you experiencing more or less workplace conflict in the last
• 2:01
  few years? Because we were curious to find out has the
• 2:04
  pandemic had that effect that kind of qualitatively feel in
• 2:08
  the air, but isn't there and overall 5000 plus people, 46
• 2:11
  different countries, very strong reporting 70% of folks report
• 2:16
  that the level of conflict is the same or more than it was a
• 2:20
  few years ago. And what's interesting is in that remaining
• 2:23
  30%, who said, No, I'm experiencing less conflict, when
• 2:26
  you then ask them why half of those folks say, Well, the
• 2:29
  reason why is that they left their job, they found someplace
• 2:32
  else, or they've left the onsite workplace, Alex, I'm working
• 2:37
  remotely now. And I'm not interacting with human beings.
• 2:39
  So I'm not having conflict. Well, okay, that feels maybe
• 2:43
  less conflict feels better for that individual. But the
• 2:45
  challenge there is all of the last constructive, productive
• 2:49
  interaction that could be happening. When you look at all
• 2:52
  of that, in total, there is an increase, and even the decrease
• 2:56
  is not entirely positive.
• 2:58
  Stephanie Maas: I think that really speaks to the power of
• 3:00
  deep dive with your research, not just taking answers at a
• 3:04
  surface level, but pulling the layers back a little bit to say,
• 3:07
  that's interesting.
• 3:08
  David Dye: You know, several things came up that were
• 3:11
  interesting to us. So the first thing was that when people were
• 3:14
  saying, Okay, there's less like, Okay, why and half of those
• 3:17
  words, because somebody left, there's also some positive. So
• 3:20
  when people are saying those who are reporting less conflict, at
• 3:26
  work, there were people who were saying it's because we've got
• 3:28
  better at talking about things because our leadership is doing
• 3:31
  more, it was smaller, but there are some positive trends that to
• 3:35
  build on. And that you can see, that should encourage all of us
• 3:38
  that it's possible. And then one of the questions we asked was
• 3:41
  about past big conflicts you've experienced, what are those, you
• 3:45
  know, conflicts with bosses, conflicts with co workers,
• 3:47
  conflicts with customers vendor? I mean, if there's a conflict
• 3:50
  available, that just about all of them came out, there wasn't
• 3:52
  any one big one. But then we followed up and said, Okay, if
• 3:55
  you could go back and give yourself some advice, what would
• 3:59
  you tell yourself, and this one was kind of astounding, just the
• 4:03
  magnitude of the number 55% of folks said, I would go back and
• 4:07
  tell myself, I need to be more patient, I need to remain calm.
• 4:10
  And then after that, it was 21% saying, Hey, I recommend talk
• 4:14
  about it, speak up, address it directly. And so it was
• 4:17
  interesting that three quarters 76% of people there total
• 4:21
  advice, be patient, remain calm and talk about it.
• 4:24
  Karin Hurt: I also think that the extent to which people cited
• 4:29
  mental health challenges and the stress associated with the
• 4:33
  pandemic, you know, I think there's a lot of language of
• 4:36
  well, that, you know, the pandemic is behind us, but it is
• 4:40
  left it has left an imprint on people that I think that we
• 4:44
  might be under estimating and 21% said that that is the source
• 4:50
  of the conflict is that you know, this, this feeling of
• 4:54
  unease of mental health of the lingering stress. Part of that
• 4:59
  is you we all chose our bubble, right? So they're created this
• 5:03
  us and them even amongst people that we cared about. And, you
• 5:08
  know, we there was like, I'm afraid of other people, all of
• 5:11
  that and living that way for so long, I think created some sense
• 5:16
  of anxiety that is lingering. And coupled on that it was also
• 5:21
  the last couple of years, it wasn't just a pandemic, it was
• 5:23
  also worldwide social unrest, we've had wars, you know, and
• 5:28
  this is a global survey. So this is in the context of a lot of
• 5:31
  external conflict that people are dealing with, then you've
• 5:35
  got social media, the way social media is working, you know,
• 5:38
  you're getting fed to things that are going to fire you up,
• 5:41
  or just living in this edge. So when you're, you know, coworker
• 5:46
  decides to, you know, heat up the leftover fish in the
• 5:50
  microwave, and it's smelling up the entire office, you're like,
• 5:54
  you know, you're on edge already. And then it's like,
• 5:56
  boom.
• 5:57
  Stephanie Maas: One of the phenomenons I think of our
• 6:00
  generation is this emphasis on leadership, the boomers really
• 6:06
  were the leadership was Do what I say, Yes, suck it up. Nobody
• 6:10
  cared if there was job satisfaction, you know, you had
• 6:13
  bills to pay. So you did it. And at the end of, you know, 30
• 6:16
  years, you got to go watch in, you know, you went to go do
• 6:19
  whatever you did for five years before you died. But we have
• 6:21
  really seen this development of a desire for different
• 6:25
  leadership. And I want to really talk specifically about that as
• 6:28
  it relates to conflict, what have you seen change, and then
• 6:33
  I'd love for you to address what you see coming to leap through
• 6:37
  conflict.
• 6:38
  David Dye: So let's start with our research. When we asked
• 6:41
  people who are reporting more conflict at work for their major
• 6:45
  reasons, in addition to the mental health and anxiety,
• 6:48
  pandemic related stress, the two number one responses were
• 6:52
  overwhelmed burnout, understaffing, all of those
• 6:55
  kinds of issues. And then poor management practices. And so
• 6:59
  when you dive into that again, and pull back the curtain and
• 7:02
  dive underneath that, you find that there's a massive amount of
• 7:05
  change happening in the modern workplace. I don't think this is
• 7:07
  news to anybody, right. But let's take a look at what those
• 7:09
  things are. So first, you've got the whole move to remote hybrid
• 7:15
  back again, not back again, all different varieties of that,
• 7:18
  then you've got this global staring contest with mortality.
• 7:22
  That was the pandemic that made a lot of people reevaluate their
• 7:25
  values, how they wanted to live, what they wanted, from their
• 7:28
  work, what they didn't want opportunities for more pay
• 7:31
  elsewhere. So you had the great resignation as people went
• 7:33
  looking elsewhere, or I don't like those values I'm leaving,
• 7:36
  and the quiet quitting that went along, you know, so you've got
• 7:38
  all of these things happening. And then you've got, as you were
• 7:42
  saying, Stephanie, you've got a workforce today that is
• 7:45
  demanding more from leadership more meaning and purpose,
• 7:48
  that's, that's a higher value to them, I need meaning and purpose
• 7:52
  in my work, the emotional connection to my co workers and
• 7:54
  to my manager, and to feel like they care about me as a human
• 7:57
  being, while at the same time, there is increasing complexity
• 8:02
  in the workplace with increasing multi timezone multi geography
• 8:07
  teams, you've got more matrix organizations, more complex
• 8:11
  structures, all of that then breeds more, more isolation
• 8:15
  takes a lot more intentionality, all of those factors add up to
• 8:20
  an increased demand on managers and leaders to lead effectively.
• 8:25
  And the skill set has not caught up with the reality yet. So all
• 8:29
  of that combines to create what you know, one of the what we
• 8:32
  call conflict cocktails. And so leaders have a lot of work to
• 8:36
  do. And that's our job is, and we love helping them do that
• 8:39
  with all the practice skills that are available. But that is
• 8:41
  also the reality that they're confronting. And then then
• 8:43
  there's the impact on teams.
• 8:45
  Karin Hurt: What's really I find really interesting is the number
• 8:49
  of times a day that my phone rings, where someone says, Hey,
• 8:53
  you know, what we need, we need to teach our leaders how to lead
• 8:57
  remote teams. And so my first question always is, have they
• 9:02
  had any leadership training at all before? And so often, it's
• 9:06
  no what we haven't done any, how do you connect with your team as
• 9:10
  a human being? It's harder in a remote environment. But Jay, if
• 9:13
  you've got those skills, right, how do you get real clarity
• 9:16
  about what success looks like and set clear expectations? How
• 9:19
  do you have a difficult accountability conversation? If
• 9:23
  somebody doesn't do right, all of those things? We're seeing a
• 9:27
  lot of folks that have never even been trained in some of
• 9:30
  those fundamental areas, man Gope. And I think there are is a
• 9:35
  very big focus now on some areas that were not focused on before
• 9:41
  creating psychological safety. Right? That is one of the most
• 9:44
  important things you can't not you cannot spend a minute on
• 9:48
  LinkedIn without seeing somebody talking about the importance of
• 9:51
  creating deep psychological safety, diversity, equity and
• 9:55
  inclusion and belonging. Right. These are conversations that
• 9:58
  have really Thank goodness, it finally come to the forefront,
• 10:03
  right? So not only do you need to get great results, you also
• 10:06
  need to create psychological safety, you need to create a
• 10:09
  culture of belonging. And it's just feeling like a lot of
• 10:12
  things. And if you haven't been trained to do that, or if you
• 10:15
  haven't been trained, what do you do when you've got a new, a
• 10:20
  new person entering the workforce? Who, by the way, went
• 10:24
  to college, in their, in their high school bedroom, right? And
• 10:28
  that's a remote, then they got on boarded to this new job, and
• 10:32
  they never actually got have been in person, how do you
• 10:36
  create a real connection to your mission, vision and values in a
• 10:39
  context like that? Have you? Have we trained people how to do
• 10:42
  that? Because that's tough stuff.
• 10:43
  David Dye: Yeah, I've just thinking of a conversation we
• 10:45
  had with a senior leader earlier this week, somebody who's very
• 10:49
  values based, has a high degree of loyalty and trust from her
• 10:52
  existing team. And she was describing the challenges that
• 10:56
  she and her team have been having with incoming workforce,
• 10:59
  who are genuinely having conversations like What do you
• 11:03
  mean, I have to be on time and not with no irony. Like, that's
• 11:09
  not inclusive? That's not and they're misusing the language
• 11:12
  right there. That's they're completely misusing the
• 11:14
  language. But it's been more than once that she's had these
• 11:17
  conversations, you scratch your head saying, are you seeing this
• 11:19
  elsewhere? It's not that it's always that but the social
• 11:22
  dynamics, common human dialogue to solve baseline problems, then
• 11:27
  you've got others who are, you know, we're thinking of another
• 11:30
  client of ours who has some leaders who struggle with, I
• 11:33
  really want to do all these things, and they are
• 11:35
  passionately hurt committed to doing them. And across their
• 11:39
  team, there is one hour a day where they can potentially get
• 11:43
  everybody together at the same time online. And that one hour
• 11:48
  includes some people being at 9pm, some people doing a 7am.
• 11:52
  Right, that kind of thing. And so, you know, those are
• 11:55
  realities.
• 11:56
  Stephanie Maas: When I first think of conflict, I think of
• 11:59
  things like the fish in the microwave, you know, tale as old
• 12:03
  as time. But what I really hear you speaking to is, we're kind
• 12:08
  of in a new world, has this new world created this new conflict?
• 12:13
  Karin Hurt: I think there are certainly buckets of new
• 12:15
  conflict. And there they rhyme with the old conflict, though.
• 12:19
  All right. So, you know, it's, do we have clarity, we're seeing
• 12:23
  a lot of conflict around unclear expectations, a lot of
• 12:27
  conversation, conflict conversations come from, I
• 12:31
  expected you to do this. And you did that. Right. So think about
• 12:35
  and almost any conflict that you have, it's usually an
• 12:37
  expectation violation of some sort. So if I think that it is
• 12:43
  polite to have your cameras on so that we can bond as a team,
• 12:48
  and you think, you know, is going from Zoom meeting to zoom
• 12:52
  meeting is giving me zoom fatigue, and I am exhausted, and
• 12:55
  I just can't even but then so you show up and don't turn your
• 12:59
  camera on? And I'm like, do you not respect me? Or is this
• 13:02
  conversation not important enough for you to turn your
• 13:04
  camera on? Now, the problem there is that we don't have a
• 13:09
  norm for in meetings like this, we do that and that we have
• 13:13
  talked about in advance. So it's, it's those kinds of
• 13:16
  things.
• 13:17
  David Dye: I think, with the addition of the remote, and this
• 13:21
  is I mean, so many workplaces, even if you are an in person
• 13:24
  team, we're still doing so much with remote communication. And
• 13:29
  whether that's a Slack channel, or zoom, or Microsoft Teams, or
• 13:33
  any of those things, you know, the way our brains work, it's
• 13:36
  very easy to reduce somebody to a set of pixels on a screen to
• 13:41
  reduce them to their job title. That's harder to do when you're
• 13:45
  seeing that person every day. And you might get a glimpse of
• 13:48
  their you know what they did this weekend or that kind of
• 13:50
  thing. But it takes a lot more intentional effort to read three
• 13:54
  dimensionalized people, and it's so easy to we go two dimensional
• 13:58
  on a flat screen, and then even less than that as glowing pixels
• 14:02
  and a chat thread and that sort of thing. So it's possible, it
• 14:05
  can be done, but it takes a lot more effort. So when you look at
• 14:08
  the dimensions of conflict or collaboration, so the things
• 14:12
  that improve conflict when they're there or cause it to be
• 14:15
  more destructive when they're not the number one is
• 14:18
  connection. That's the first thing is do we see Do we know
• 14:21
  each other as human beings? Then there's clarity, Karen was
• 14:24
  talking about clarity, do we have a shared understanding of
• 14:26
  what success looks like? Next is curiosity. Are we truly
• 14:30
  interested in one another's perspectives? And then finally,
• 14:33
  is commitment and that is do we have a shared agreement moving
• 14:37
  forward, of what actions we're going to take and how that
• 14:40
  works? Those dimensions if we can address those make
• 14:43
  everything better?
• 14:44
  Stephanie Maas: So I'm just gonna throw this out there when
• 14:46
  you guys are deciding on what to do for dinner together. Do you
• 14:48
  go through these steps? Hey, I'd like to connect...
• 14:51
  David Dye: You kid but it's funny because people often ask
• 14:53
  like, hey, well, I'm interested in what it must be like at your
• 14:56
  house. We do use the tools that I'm actually thinking of a
• 14:58
  conversation we had Two weeks ago, we were having a conflict
• 15:02
  about something I don't remember the topic anymore about Kara
• 15:05
  does. I was like, Alright, I actually went through the four
• 15:10
  dimensions. And let's talk through these and see if we're
• 15:13
  aware. Do we have some more work to do? Absolutely.
• 15:16
  Karin Hurt: Yeah, just you know, some other things that we really
• 15:19
  in the book, we really talk about giving people the words to
• 15:23
  have these conversations. And, you know, once one of these
• 15:27
  phrases works very well, in relationships, in any kind of
• 15:32
  relationship that you ever have, I really care about you. And I
• 15:36
  am sure that we can can't find an outcome that will be good
• 15:40
  here. You know, I really care about you, I really care about
• 15:42
  this team, I really care about our work that we're doing, I
• 15:45
  really care about our mission, right? If you can come from a
• 15:48
  place of I really care about this. And the other day, was
• 15:53
  talking someone, a manager through conflict that he was
• 15:56
  really, really, really fired up. And I said, You know what,
• 16:00
  because I knew the other person, I said, there's one thing I know
• 16:03
  for sure, you both really care about the same outcome, you're
• 16:08
  both trying to accomplish the exact same thing. Now you have
• 16:12
  differences of opinion about how you're going to approach it. But
• 16:14
  I would start there like grounded in that go say, I know
• 16:18
  you want this, I want the exact same thing.
• 16:22
  Stephanie Maas: That's perfect becasue I think dealing with
• 16:24
  conflict is going to take time and practice, so forth and so
• 16:27
  on. But it is a skill.
• 16:30
  David Dye: Absolutely, absolutely. And getting into
• 16:32
  those specific conversations, the reality for all of us is
• 16:36
  we'll all be more effective and have a better enjoyment of life,
• 16:40
  if we can and workplaces in particular, and do more
• 16:43
  effective work, if we can navigate it effectively. So
• 16:46
  understanding that where the discomfort comes from, we're
• 16:49
  social creatures, I don't want to be disliked, I want to be on
• 16:52
  the outs from my my colleagues, like we need that it's part of
• 16:55
  our human needs. The fear comes, I'm going to damage the
• 16:59
  relationship, I'm going to this is going to stink as a result,
• 17:02
  that fear becomes from a lack of skill. So if we can, as you
• 17:06
  said, practice and get good at those skills, it's going to help
• 17:09
  us in order to practice in order to try I sometimes have to
• 17:13
  overcome that fear of what's going to happen, that
• 17:15
  discomfort. And so there's a conversation before we have a
• 17:18
  conversation with anybody else. There's a conversation we have
• 17:20
  to have with ourselves. One of the powerful phrases to use with
• 17:23
  yourself is what happens if I don't say anything? Because
• 17:26
  nothing's going to change if nothing changes. And so what
• 17:29
  happens if I don't say anything? What's at risk? If I stay
• 17:32
  silent? What are my values here? What are the things that are
• 17:36
  that could happen are not going to happen next to really ask
• 17:39
  ourselves and take an honest look at that. Because sometimes
• 17:42
  maybe staying silent, might be the right call. Because really,
• 17:46
  there's nearly nothing at stake here. And it's just me,
• 17:48
  whatever. Most of the time, though, when there's something
• 17:50
  that's irritating us, I'm thinking of a specific example,
• 17:54
  when I was a newer employee, our CEO wanted to do a marketing
• 17:59
  project that I really felt lacked integrity. And I stood on
• 18:02
  it for nights spent, sleepless Lee going, how could he do that
• 18:07
  does Where's his integrity. And after four nights that I finally
• 18:10
  got desperate enough that I spoke up, and I said, Hey, look,
• 18:13
  Mr. CEO, I can't be a part of this lacks integrity. I don't
• 18:17
  want to do this. It's something along those lines. And he said,
• 18:20
  Oh, well, David, I do see it differently. I don't think it
• 18:23
  lacks integrity the way that you think it does. And I don't want
• 18:26
  you to violate your integrity. What do you think we could do
• 18:29
  here? Oh, well, what if we did this one tweak? He's like, Yeah,
• 18:34
  we can do that. Problem solved. In this context. Silence is
• 18:38
  selfish. If I don't say something, I am depriving the
• 18:42
  other person of the opportunity to make a different choice to
• 18:45
  take a different path to engage with me on that content. So I've
• 18:49
  got to say something.
• 18:50
  Karin Hurt: Yeah. So David shared our four dimensions and
• 18:53
  productive conflict, the four C's, well, we have what we call
• 18:58
  our goats, our greatest of all time, powerful phrases, right.
• 19:02
  So we've got a couple of goats for every one of those C's. And
• 19:07
  so I think, you know, though, I shared the one around, you know,
• 19:10
  creating connection I really care about you care about this
• 19:12
  project. Another really good connection. One is, Tell me
• 19:16
  more, I have set myself up as an active listener in deep
• 19:21
  connection. And then another connection one is what we call a
• 19:24
  reflect to connect, which is where you are reflecting back
• 19:29
  the emotion. It sounds like you're really frustrated with
• 19:32
  this decision. Now, you're not saying they should be frustrated
• 19:34
  with this decision. You're not saying you you are thinking it's
• 19:38
  a bad decision. It's just saying it sounds like you're really
• 19:40
  frustrated with this decision. Tell me more. So those are some
• 19:44
  examples of connection. One's a really good clarity. One is what
• 19:49
  would a successful outcome look like for you? Because now I'm
• 19:54
  curious because that's a really important one because if we're
• 19:57
  not trying to achieve the same thing, Then we're never going to
• 20:01
  resolve the conflict. So it's better to know that as fast as
• 20:04
  you can.
• 20:05
  David Dye: Yeah, I think that there's some nuance on that one,
• 20:08
  too, that's important is it's what would a successful outcome?
• 20:10
  What would it do for you? Because sometimes in a lot of
• 20:14
  workplace conflict, we're like, well, I need the data. Well, I
• 20:17
  need to do this other thing. And we get into we get locked into
• 20:20
  these conflicts about well, this is what success looks like, for
• 20:23
  me. It's like, Well, okay, but what will that do for you? What
• 20:26
  is it that you're after? What's that going to do for you? Well,
• 20:28
  I need the data in order to do this. Okay, well, let's see if
• 20:32
  we can build a solution that can satisfy that and satisfy where I
• 20:35
  am, we need to do all of these things. And I need to stay
• 20:38
  healthy in the process, like, okay, how can we do both of
• 20:40
  those, until we know what those outcomes people are thinking
• 20:44
  about will do for them? It's really hard to craft a shared
• 20:47
  solution. But once we do have that clarity, then we can move
• 20:50
  forward with something that tries to satisfy both.
• 20:54
  Stephanie Maas: And it sounds like, again, correct me if I'm
• 20:56
  wrong, though, this clarity, while it can be very helpful for
• 20:59
  the leader, it also sounds like it would be helpful for the
• 21:03
  person as well, to what I immediately think of, is this a
• 21:07
  problem that actually needs to be solved? Or do I just need to
• 21:11
  listen?
• 21:12
  Karin Hurt: Yeah. And then, you know, so that really leads to
• 21:15
  the whole series of curiosity questions, you know, if you can
• 21:18
  show up really curious about possibilities, are there other
• 21:23
  alternative ways to think about this? And really curious about
• 21:26
  what things are looking like from somebody else's point of
• 21:29
  view? And so a good goat is, I'm curious what this looks like,
• 21:34
  from your perspective, you know, it's a very neutral, easy to ask
• 21:39
  question, what do you suggest we do next? Because that that is a
• 21:44
  really good one, too, because a lot of times, particularly if
• 21:48
  you've got a lot of people who are chronically complaining, and
• 21:51
  they're coming to you and jumping, solve this problem,
• 21:54
  solve this problem, right. So what what do you suggest we do?
• 21:57
  Well, gosh, I don't know. It's not an easy solution. So this
• 22:00
  curiosity questions are some, I think, the most important ones.
• 22:04
  David Dye: And other curiosity, one that I love is, what can I
• 22:07
  do to support you right now? And Stephanie, that gets it that
• 22:11
  notion you were asking about earlier in terms of is this
• 22:14
  somebody I need to listen and hear and give them the chance to
• 22:18
  get that off their chest and let them know they're not alone? And
• 22:21
  that they've been felt? And they've been heard? Or is their
• 22:24
  solution oriented? And so if we ask, hey, what can I do to
• 22:26
  support you right now? We'll find out because it's not always
• 22:29
  easy to know, when somebody is coming with their issue.
• 22:33
  Stephanie Maas: And again, to your point, what do you suggest?
• 22:36
  What an empowering thing to say? Like, hey, I don't need to be
• 22:40
  the source of all the answers. And that's actually not what
• 22:43
  makes for a good leader. I mean, I think good leadership is about
• 22:46
  developing others and helping them but then at the same time,
• 22:49
  it's empowering. But if they're just a chronic, complainer it
• 22:52
  also nip that in the bud as well. Okay, bring me home, give
• 22:55
  me a goat for commitment.
• 22:58
  Karin Hurt: David, you want to do that one?
• 22:59
  David Dye: Sure, so when we talk about commitment, let's just get
• 23:02
  the concept out there is that a lot of times, we will have a
• 23:06
  Groundhog's Day situation where we may have a great conflict
• 23:09
  conversation, and we really discuss some solutions, and we
• 23:12
  leave with great intentions. But we haven't made a shared
• 23:16
  agreement. And as a result, everything ends up happening
• 23:19
  again. And now we're back where we were. So one of our favorite
• 23:23
  goats for commitment is, you know, we can align on an action,
• 23:27
  what's one action we can both agree to is the next step. So
• 23:29
  maybe it's to get that first. But then one of my favorites, we
• 23:33
  call this scheduling the finish. And it's let's schedule some
• 23:36
  time to talk about this again, and see how our solution has
• 23:40
  worked. So let's get it on the calendar right now. We put it on
• 23:44
  our calendars right now let's schedule the finish. And how
• 23:46
  about Friday, next week at 3pm. Let's get together for 15
• 23:50
  minutes and see how it's working. And what that does is
• 23:53
  it increases the likelihood that we're going to follow through on
• 23:56
  the commitment that we made to each other. And it gives us an
• 23:59
  opportunity to deal with any exceptions that came up, oh,
• 24:02
  well, then somebody was out sick and it didn't happen, or there
• 24:05
  was this other business priority that came along. And we you
• 24:08
  know, all hands on deck, we responded to that. We didn't
• 24:11
  keep our commitment. Well, if we don't have a chance to talk
• 24:13
  about it, trust erodes. And we're back where we were only
• 24:17
  now it's worse, because we didn't follow through on what we
• 24:19
  said. So if we've scheduled that time, where we're going to
• 24:22
  follow up and follow through, it gives us the opportunity to say
• 24:26
  hey, you know, What, did you do the thing that I didn't think?
• 24:28
  No, we didn't. All right. Let's acknowledge that. And let's
• 24:31
  recommit and then schedule another one out so that we can
• 24:34
  maintain our commitment to each other. And that builds trust and
• 24:37
  it builds the collaboration.
• 24:39
  Karin Hurt: Yeah, there's one of the commitment ones that I find
• 24:42
  really useful in a really heated if we're at two separate sides
• 24:48
  of a conflict as specific as you can be. So okay, what is one
• 24:53
  action we can both agree on? It pulls in a baby step to give us
• 24:57
  something that we can align on because we mean not be able to
• 25:00
  solve the whole thing. But let's start.
• 25:03
  Stephanie Maas: Is there anything else that you guys want
• 25:05
  to make sure we talk about in our time together?
• 25:08
  Karin Hurt: You know, I think the most important thing is that
• 25:13
  as we asked people about how they felt, right, like, like
• 25:18
  when we when we you've had a conflict? Yeah. Had you spoke
• 25:22
  up? How did you feel after the words that come are full of I
• 25:28
  felt relieved, I felt hopeful. I, you know, I felt better. So
• 25:35
  that is our hope for you is that you are the listener is that
• 25:39
  have the courage to have the conversation because there is
• 25:42
  peace and optimism on the other side of that.
• 25:47
  David Dye: And I would add, oh, first two things. So first, I
• 25:50
  think we've shared what eight or 10 phrases maybe and if you're
• 25:54
  listening this book, powerful phrases for dealing with
• 25:56
  workplace conflict, what to say next to de stress the workday,
• 26:00
  build collaboration, calm, difficult customers, there are
• 26:03
  over 300 phrases in that book that will walk you through all
• 26:07
  different kinds of conflict that you might have at work with
• 26:09
  coworkers, the final thought I would want to leave you with and
• 26:13
  I'm going to come back to a story, a conversation that I had
• 26:16
  with a manager in his 30s. And this was about six, seven weeks
• 26:20
  ago, he had a situation at work was feeling some conflict needed
• 26:23
  to have a conversation hadn't had the conversation. So we
• 26:26
  walked through some powerful phrases he could use to start
• 26:28
  the conversation, we scheduled the finish, let me know let's
• 26:31
  call him Joe. So Joe, let me know when you're gonna have the
• 26:34
  conversation, and I want to circle back and hear how it
• 26:36
  went. So you got the follow through. He texted me three days
• 26:39
  later. And the text said, David, I'm going to get a tattoo. It's
• 26:44
  going to say, just have the conversation. I said, So Joe, I
• 26:48
  take it that the conversation went well. He said it did. He
• 26:51
  said, I didn't get everything I wanted, you know, and they saw
• 26:54
  some things differently. And I learned some of their
• 26:56
  perspective. But my goodness, why didn't I do this so much
• 27:00
  sooner. And we're all capable of that when we have the right
• 27:04
  words to use. So just want to encourage listeners, have the
• 27:07
  conversation, get it started open the door and give people a
• 27:11
  chance.
• 27:12
  Stephanie Maas: I love it. You know, fear is what keeps people
• 27:15
  from having these conversations. And a big way to get over fear
• 27:20
  is to have the tools to get through it. And these are the
• 27:23
  tools arm yourself with the appropriate tools so that the
• 27:26
  fear just dissolves because you know, you're starting in the
• 27:30
  right way. So thank you both so much. Thank you all
• 27:36
  tremendously. I really appreciate you being here and
• 27:38
  available.
• 27:39
  Karin Hurt: We are so grateful for you. We're big fans of the
• 27:42
  important work in the show and thank you for all you do to
• 27:46
  encourage courage and to grow leaders.
• 27:49
  David Dye: Our pleasure.