Latest / CareTalk: Healthcare. Unfiltered. / 2023 Healthcare Predictions

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2023 Healthcare Predictions · CareTalk: Healthcare. Unfiltered.

• 0:00
  David: Well, 2022 was the most normal year for a while, but that doesn't mean it was non-eventful between the Inflation Reduction Act, Supreme Court, Dobbs decision, big health tech acquisitions, and the continuing public health emergency and midterm elections.
• 0:13
  David: There was plenty to talk about.
• 0:15
  David: What will 2023 bring?
• 0:17
  David: Nobody really knows, do they?
• 0:18
  David: But we have some exciting predictions to share.
• 0:21
  David: Anyway, welcome to Care Talk.
• 0:23
  David: I'm America's Home for Incisive debate about healthcare business and.
• 0:27
  David: I'm David Williams, president of Health Business Group,
• 0:30
  John: and I'm John Driscoll, the president of Walgreens Health.
• 0:32
  John: David, you basically disqualified ourselves to actually make predictions since we don't know what's going to happen.
• 0:39
  John: I think we do.
• 0:40
  John: I think we've got some pretty good ideas about what's going to happen next year, and you shouldn't self disqualify yourself.
• 0:47
  John: I predict that you will continue to be a skeptic.
• 0:51
  John: I'm hop.
• 0:52
  John: For the opposite, but I
• 0:54
  David: doubt it.
• 0:54
  David: Oh, John, I thought you were gonna gimme a little pep talk there for a minute, but, you know, let's, so let's look ahead, I, I agree.
• 0:59
  David: We have some things to say, but let's look back too, you know, one of the things I like at this time of the year, John, is I get these things from my apps that tell me what happened over the year, like Spotify wrapped and Strava year in sport.
• 1:09
  David: At Care Talk, you know, we can do that too.
• 1:12
  David: We rose to become a top five healthcare show and you took a big new job.
• 1:17
  David: Um, you know, John, we had 1.6 million streams in 2021 so far.
• 1:21
  David: Wow.
• 1:21
  David: That's up tw up 25% and 165,000 total hours streamed.
• 1:26
  David: That's up almost 50%, uh, since last year, John.
• 1:29
  David: And that's solved by doing too fewer.
• 1:32
  David: 56 instead of 58.
• 1:33
  David: What do you think of that?
• 1:35
  David: I think
• 1:35
  John: we're get, we're we ? Maybe people are willing to listen more if we talk less.
• 1:40
  John: Um, but David, let's, let's, let's get, let.
• 1:42
  John: I think there's a lot to be proud of.
• 1:44
  John: You know, I was in Chicago last week and a pharmacist, one of our re one of our leaders, uh, regional leaders of the Walgreens team was saying how much he enjoyed the back and forth and the topical nature of our healthcare questions.
• 1:58
  John: So I do think we're making a dent and I look forward to, uh, another fun.
• 2:01
  John: You next year, but let's, let's, let's do look back, because I do think that there is, uh, there's, uh, let's build on what, what, what we've done.
• 2:10
  John: Okay.
• 2:10
  John: And talk about not just the public health emergency in Covid, but what's next.
• 2:15
  John: I mean, I think my, my, my prediction, it remains my prediction, David, that virtual care, that all this talk about technology and medicine will revert to medicine and that virtual care will be, Care itself, and we'll talk more about the impact of how doctor, what doctors and, and all other clinicians are doing.
• 2:36
  John: And it's gonna be omnichannel, whether it's text or video or voice.
• 2:41
  John: And it's just gonna be integrated into healthcare.
• 2:43
  John: And, and we're, we're gonna stop taking the innovations of the 20th century as.
• 2:49
  John: New and or novel and talk and start thinking and more, more thoughtfully measuring how we get better outcomes for lower costs.
• 2:56
  John: I mean, are you still a skeptic about technology,
• 2:58
  David: David?
• 3:00
  David: John, I agree with your prediction about, you know, virtual care becoming care over time.
• 3:04
  David: I think in the meantime, there's a few things to prove.
• 3:06
  David: One is like meaning, I don't think it's all gonna happen in 2023.
• 3:10
  David: I think there's some things that need to be proved.
• 3:12
  David: First, John.
• 3:12
  David: One is whether virtual primary care is really realistic virtual first, or is are we really just mostly dealing with urgent care?
• 3:20
  David: And then when you deal with specialties, is this gonna be something that you can really do with virtual care, or is it really just gonna be sort of a secondary channel for established.
• 3:29
  David: Those are things that I think we have to, uh, consider.
• 3:31
  John: I don't hear a con significant disagreement there.
• 3:35
  John: Virtual care will be care and we're gonna stop treating it as novel.
• 3:38
  John: David, what is your pro next prediction?
• 3:42
  John: What is prediction number two for are the care talk team.
• 3:46
  David: So prediction number two, John should, should get under your, your skin a little bit, which I think healthcare staffing shortages will come to an.
• 3:54
  David: you know, everywhere we hear today about big shortages, doctors, nurses, parking at attendants.
• 3:59
  David: But I think what's gonna happen, John, is people are gonna say they need to.
• 4:03
  David: And employers are gonna find creative, uh, solutions to improve the situation as it relates to nurses.
• 4:08
  David: Um, if there's a bit of recession, a lot of nurses are second incomes within families, and they may come back into the workforce and there's gonna be a plethora of nurses and the job shortage.
• 4:17
  David: Well, I'm, I'm
• 4:18
  John: impressed with the, the fact that you're expanding your vocabulary to words like.
• 4:22
  John: Plethora, but plethora is not what we are going to be faced with.
• 4:25
  John: You know, nearly a third of all doctors and tw a third of all nurses and 20% of all, all, all, all doctors are feeling really burnt out.
• 4:33
  John: The demands are going up.
• 4:35
  John: Children's hospitals are overwhelmed.
• 4:36
  John: It's hard to get nurses to come to the home, not because they don't want to, but because there aren't enough nurses.
• 4:41
  John: Our immigration policy is still screwed up.
• 4:43
  John: There's tens of thousands of clinicians around the world who would.
• 4:47
  John: Work here, but our, our immigration system doesn't move fast enough to accommodate that.
• 4:52
  John: There's 10,000 people turning Medicare eligible every day.
• 4:56
  John: David, you're just plain wrong.
• 4:58
  John: Those shortages will continue.
• 5:00
  John: I'm hoping that, uh, all, all these technology things that we were talking about will extend.
• 5:06
  John: The, and, and ease the burden, but we're gonna be facing, I think, the, the healthcare staffing burden for the next few years.
• 5:13
  David: All right.
• 5:13
  David: Well, John, since you dismissed my number two, I want to take number three as well.
• 5:17
  David: Here's another one you're gonna disagree with though.
• 5:19
  David: So I think that in 2023, Medicare Advantage.
• 5:23
  David: Will lose its luster.
• 5:24
  David: You know, people have been real big on Medicare Advantage.
• 5:26
  David: It's gonna be probably half or more of all the Medicare, uh, eligible folks are gonna be in Medicare Advantage, but it's starting to take some lumps, you know, speak, being called managed care.
• 5:36
  David: It's being pointed out, you can't choose your own doctor.
• 5:38
  David: People are saying, well, You know, the, those that are marketing it, not necessarily the plans themselves, but brokers and others are, are misleading the public into thinking this is a government program and using the Medicare logo and so on.
• 5:52
  David: I think Medicare Advantage, John, I don't know that it's days are numbered, but I think it's gonna at least.
• 5:56
  David: Lose its luster.
• 5:57
  David: And that's not as big of a word as plethora, but it's also like pretty impressive.
• 6:00
  John: I think.
• 6:00
  John: There, there is, there is, there is.
• 6:02
  John: I'm gonna, I'm, I, he, I'm, I'm stuttering here because I hesitate to give you credit on this one, but I think you deserve it.
• 6:08
  John: I think that the, the, the brand, the bring it, the brand, um, positives of Medicare Advantage are based a lot on.
• 6:19
  John: The genuine fondness, uh, and support that people have for traditional Medicare, but don't mis mistake the fact that Medicare advantage for those members in those plans coordinated care with a doctor that they know and trust, and a system that actually pays attention to them, um, is, is, is, is not just succeeding because of the, the, the brand stuff.
• 6:44
  John: And I think there's a legitimate argument.
• 6:48
  John: , there needs to be a distinction between managed care and traditional Medicare so that Medicare eligibles understand the difference that that, that, that's a legitimate gripe and criticism.
• 6:57
  John: But managed care works.
• 6:59
  John: I mean, they're, they're, and, and increasingly the, the, the benefits and the costs for the individual Medicare beneficiary are actually better under Medicare advantage than under traditional Medicare.
• 7:10
  John: You know, over the.
• 7:11
  John: 10 years, all of those copays and deductibles in traditional Medicare continue to go up and the cost of Medicare continues to go up.
• 7:19
  John: So I don't think it's, uh, I think it may have a, a regulatory comeuppance, but luster it will not lose.
• 7:26
  John: Well, John, since
• 7:26
  David: you were nice to me, I'm gonna give you a little support for your argument.
• 7:29
  David: Okay.
• 7:29
  David: Which is to say, okay, Medicare Advantage may have its challenges, may have some things that people don't always, uh, love about it, however.
• 7:38
  David: We are not gonna solve our cost and quality problems with traditional Medicare, and if it's not Medicare Advantage, you tell me what it's gonna be.
• 7:45
  David: All right.
• 7:45
  David: So I'll, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm giving you a little support there, John.
• 7:48
  David: That's your early Christmas gift.
• 7:50
  David: John: So, David, we, we, we've bit about value-based care.
• 7:55
  David: What do you predict about value-based care?
• 7:57
  David: You know, that's, care on a budget.
• 7:59
  David: It's this, all of this episodes of care, it's where people get paid.
• 8:03
  David: More on a per life or per engaged member, or per or per procedure, like a knee procedure than actually paid, you know, for every transaction and test.
• 8:15
  David: And, and meeting and visit.
• 8:16
  David: They do.
• 8:17
  David: So, John, my prediction there is that value-based care is gonna continue to make incremental advances.
• 8:23
  David: Now it does tie into the medic Medicare advantage.
• 8:25
  David: Oh, I mean,
• 8:26
  John: that's, that's the best you can do.
• 8:28
  John: Incre, you, you're a closet incrementalist.
• 8:31
  John: Is that what you're
• 8:32
  David: telling me?
• 8:32
  David: I'm gonna say, John, I'm, I'm gonna have to take your gift back by the way.
• 8:35
  David: But the, uh, or the Medicare advantage, I think a lot of the value-based care is actually occurring.
• 8:40
  David: What I like, and the reason I say progress, don't, don't focus on the incremental, I said progress.
• 8:45
  David: So there's more provider groups that are setting up to take shared risk.
• 8:49
  David: So, you know, you ha you can't just take a regular physician that's getting fee for service and all of a sudden they can take risk.
• 8:55
  David: They can't really do it.
• 8:56
  David: They have to have, uh, the support to have it.
• 8:58
  David: And then you've got companies, That are out there, like, uh, clarify, which we'll be speaking, uh, with the, with the CEO Jean Dru in the, in the new year credo that we both advise, uh, that are enabling this with data and analytics that say now we have this framework, this idea of value-based care.
• 9:13
  David: Now we can put it, uh, into, we can make it reality.
• 9:17
  David: So I expect to see that incremental.
• 9:19
  David: And John, maybe for 2024, we'll be saying it's gonna take over and be everything, but yeah.
• 9:25
  David: Incremental.
• 9:27
  John: Oh, that's not really much of a prediction.
• 9:28
  John: I mean, I think you can do better than that.
• 9:30
  John: I think value-based care is gonna make big gains because we have to move to a budget.
• 9:34
  John: I mean, obviously, uh, Walgreens has invested in Village md, which is a, uh, an important and, and, and a leading.
• 9:41
  John: Value-based Care, primary Cares group, but you're gonna see more of that.
• 9:45
  John: There's plenty of other competitors in the market like Agilon and Privia that are, that are really interesting.
• 9:50
  John: I, I think it's, I think it's making bigger progress than those of you who have your heads firmly planted in the past.
• 9:58
  John: Will, will, will, will be, will be, uh, will be aware of David.
• 10:03
  John: What about home-based care?
• 10:04
  John: I mean, obviously I'm biased there.
• 10:06
  John: I think that's, yeah.
• 10:07
  John: What's the future?
• 10:08
  John: What's gonna happen with home-based care in 2020?
• 10:11
  David: John.
• 10:12
  David: So I think that's be our prediction, number five.
• 10:13
  David: And I'm, I'm, I'm wary of, of making any these incremental, uh, predictions.
• 10:18
  David: So I'm gonna say home healthcare will become super important in 2023.
• 10:23
  David: You know, I think what we're gonna find is that people now have gotten used to being at home during the public health emergency.
• 10:29
  David: Hopefully that will end.
• 10:31
  David: They'll have the ability to go out, but they'll say, you know what?
• 10:33
  David: It makes sense to be here.
• 10:34
  David: This is where it makes sense.
• 10:35
  David: It also makes sense for people to be observed in their home environ.
• 10:39
  David: Um, it's gonna be more cost effective and better quality.
• 10:42
  David: I also see that there are companies that are now taking this home first approach and saying, let's, let's reexamine our assumptions about what can be done in the home.
• 10:51
  David: And not.
• 10:51
  David: One company I saw mentioned, uh, is don't do it.
• 10:54
  David: Utility company, don't do it.
• 10:56
  David: Don't.
• 10:56
  David: No, John.
• 10:57
  David: I know.
• 10:58
  David: I'll say that.
• 10:59
  David: There's the male side of it.
• 11:01
  David: Okay.
• 11:01
  David: Which you don't need to come into the hospital in order to produce a specimen.
• 11:05
  David: Uh, but also even on the ultrasound side, I
• 11:08
  John: thought the whole point of this prediction thing was, so you could talk about home sperm sampling.
• 11:14
  John: fine.
• 11:15
  David: So those of us who are of childbearing age, uh, you know, you could , you could check, you can do the, the home sperm sampling.
• 11:22
  David: But also John, believe it or not, the more interesting part, um, is that, uh, ultrasound and typically, actually transvaginal ultrasound is used not on men.
• 11:32
  David: Okay, but on women, you're
• 11:35
  John: getting confused here.
• 11:36
  John: First of all, you are of child rearing age, not childbearing.
• 11:40
  John: I think you get off of this like we agree on this one.
• 11:42
  John: You use this just to bring up the home sperm sampling,
• 11:46
  David: let's be honest.
• 11:46
  David: No, also the home, home ultrasound, John.
• 11:48
  David: Uh, just think about it.
• 11:49
  David: It's, uh, well, I think
• 11:51
  John: just, you're just, you're just focused too much on the mid-section of, of our predictions.
• 11:56
  John: Um, but I used to think about David is.
• 12:00
  John: The convergence, which is the underlying point you're making of technology, which about monitoring and the miniaturization of tools and meeting the, the, the consumers where they are, which is at the home where they want to get care, where the vast majority of of patients want to heal and age.
• 12:18
  John: So David, you've been a bit of a critic, but also a partner to private equity and venture.
• 12:24
  John: What's gonna happen to them in this more, uh, in this hotter regulatory environment?
• 12:32
  David: Well, John, I know you're a little squeamish talking about, uh, you know, basic, uh, sexual functions, but when it comes to private equity, you know, it's just, it's just too
• 12:40
  John: much of a focus for viewers.
• 12:42
  John: I, I knows, but you
• 12:42
  David: know what?
• 12:43
  David: That some of the most pornographic stuff probably occurs with private equity and venture capital, John.
• 12:47
  David: That's where the real excesses are.
• 12:48
  David: Okay.
• 12:49
  David: In the economy, did you just, so what happened?
• 12:51
  John: Did you just suggest the, a new for a, a new phrase, porn,
• 12:54
  David: PE.
• 12:56
  David: I didn't suggest it, John, I think it was in your mind.
• 12:58
  David: No, I didn't suggest that, but, we'll, what we'll say John, is that private equity owns a lot of the economy and they've been kind of in the, in the background.
• 13:07
  David: And now since healthcare is, you know, 20% of the economy or so, a lot of private equity involvement there.
• 13:13
  David: And one of the strategies that private equity uses is try to make companies more profitable.
• 13:17
  David: And, you know, often that.
• 13:20
  David: Increasing prices are having more consolidation, and there's gonna be more scrutiny in the same way there is of Medicare advantage, whether that's good or bad.
• 13:27
  David: Systemically for healthcare, it's good for the limited partners of the private equity firm.
• 13:31
  David: It may be good for the, for the companies, but now there's gonna be more scrutiny and I think that, uh, the, the PE firms better be ready for that scrutiny that they're going.
• 13:41
  David: I think that
• 13:41
  John: prediction is legit, but I wanna make, wanna add a piece to it that all, all all, I think what people need to be thoughtful about is there are, there are, in the same way that there are good companies that are good fiduciaries and good caretakers of the sacred trust of actually working in healthcare.
• 13:58
  John: And there are bad companies, there are good PE firms and bad PE firms, and they're good investments and bad investments and I, I really hope that, The, the fact that the investment structure is different shouldn't be used to make a, do a kind of a tri, the tribal, the kind of tribal takedown that you sometimes try on this podcast.
• 14:17
  John: The reality is there's a lot of good that all of this capital going into healthcare, uh, has created, it's created some of the most innovative care companies, uh, in America.
• 14:28
  John: I mean, H C A is a super successful, super high service.
• 14:33
  John: Organization, and I think so is the Cleveland Clinic.
• 14:36
  John: And they, they, they, they, they exist in a for-profit and a not-for-profit world, but they both excel at what they do.
• 14:43
  John: And so I think in the same way that there are good and bad public companies, I'm sure they're good and bad private companies.
• 14:48
  John: And I think everyone in healthcare should be ready for more oversight.
• 14:53
  John: Uh, you know, there's, there's certainly one of the things we learned in the pandemic is when there's no oversight, people make bad decisions.
• 15:00
  John: And you saw it with nursing home.
• 15:02
  John: Um, in New York, um, you saw it in the, the ways that, uh, the hospital supply chains were managed.
• 15:09
  John: And I think that oversight, while uncomfortable for, for, for leaders in business, uh, is really kind of necessary.
• 15:16
  John: And we've, that is one of the lessons from 22 that needs to be carried into 23, and I think it'll be true of, uh, different forms of finance.
• 15:23
  John: So David, what do you think about, um, artificial intelligence?
• 15:27
  John: I mean, it's certainly something you've relied on personally for many
• 15:30
  David: years.
• 15:31
  David: You gotta have something.
• 15:32
  David: You know, I, it's not coming outta the natural side of things.
• 15:35
  David: Uh, I think it's actually, John, I'm gonna say here, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go negative at the, uh, you know, at, oh, no.
• 15:40
  David: Oh, first.
• 15:41
  David: First.
• 15:42
  David: Okay.
• 15:43
  David: So I think it's gonna sputter for now, uh, but eventually, eventually it's gonna prevail, but not in 2023.
• 15:49
  David: So you have some things that are, that are very good.
• 15:51
  David: Like there's, uh, there's tools that can use artificial intelligence to diagnose from based on somebody's.
• 15:57
  David: Or the cough, what problem they have.
• 15:59
  David: I would love that right now, John, but I don't really want the diagnosis.
• 16:02
  David: I'd love the, the Cure before we get to the, you know, the final predictions here.
• 16:05
  David: Uh, but it's, it's helpful.
• 16:07
  David: I think also for, you know, tough diagnoses.
• 16:09
  David: You hear things like this diagnostic odyssey, somebody with a rare condition, they may go from doctor to doctor over many years before they get the diagnosis with a proper ai.
• 16:18
  David: A number of factors could be put together and actually pick that out on the spot.
• 16:21
  David: That's where you're gonna see some of the promise.
• 16:23
  David: One of the reasons I say it's gonna sputter John, is that we see in artificial intelligence, unfortunately, it relies on existing human regular intelligence data sets.
• 16:33
  David: Those have a lot of biases and that you can just actually encoding the biases into the permanent artificial brain.
• 16:39
  David: Could it be a biased brain?
• 16:41
  David: I, I, I,
• 16:43
  John: I, well, I, I, you should put your own bias brain aside for the moment while you try to make a prediction with a foot and two canoes.
• 16:50
  John: One saying AI's gonna spotter the other.
• 16:53
  John: That is AI's intelligent.
• 16:55
  John: Make up your.
• 16:56
  John: Mind.
• 16:56
  John: I mean, I think that, I think what, what people, what's gonna happen in 23 is more and more machine learning and intelligence will be embedded into care and like technology in general.
• 17:07
  John: And vir, my comment about virtual care, AI's gonna matter and you're not gonna know it because those, the, the you're, you're talking about, You know, encoding human bias.
• 17:17
  John: We've already had human bias.
• 17:18
  John: You see it in the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the lack of recognition around how much racism is involved in, in care, how people of color reliably.
• 17:31
  John: Get less care, not because of the intention of the doctors, but a lot of encoded biases in the system which already exist.
• 17:39
  John: I think the intelligence and machine learning are gonna be more and more relevant, and I think that's gonna be a lift for healthcare in 2023.
• 17:47
  David: John, all I can say is the foot and two canoes does not sound positive for male fertility.
• 17:52
  David: .
• 17:52
  David: John: David, um, I've had a a point Walgreens Health, but what do you think about retail healthcare?
• 17:59
  David: A little bit like value-based care?
• 18:02
  David: It's been promised for many, many, for like almost two generations now of healthcare leaders.
• 18:08
  David: What's gonna happen in the, with the convergence of healthcare and retail, John?
• 18:11
  David: Yeah.
• 18:11
  David: I was just quoted in the, uh, in the Boston Globe in the lead story about how hospitals are struggl.
• 18:16
  David: And I think it needs to be looked at in the, in the overall environ.
• 18:19
  David: You know, hospitals have really been crushed by the public health emergency.
• 18:23
  David: You see, nursing homes are really struggling and retailers have actually stepped up despite some challenges, uh, of their own.
• 18:29
  David: Um, and you'll see that, you know, the pharmacy is becoming, we talked about the home being the center of the care, which I agree with, but pharmacies replace the people, you know, really rely on.
• 18:38
  David: And pharmacists, they're, they're able to see.
• 18:41
  David: And so I think that, um, you're gonna see, uh, you're gonna see more growth.
• 18:46
  David: It's gonna be bumpy, uh, but you're gonna see more retail oriented approaches including, you know, urgent care, primary care, the physician, uh, the, excuse me, the pharmacist potentially expanding, uh, their scope of service.
• 18:58
  David: I see more happening, John, because of what the retailers are doing themselves, including your company, but also some of the struggles in the rest of the healthcare delivery
• 19:06
  John: system.
• 19:07
  John: Yeah, I, I think it's a really good point, David.
• 19:09
  John: I mean, obviously, uh, I, I'm betting my career right now on the fact that Walgreen c v s Walmart and others can Best Buy will all take different paths to help, you know, extend and connect the healthcare system to our most vulnerable.
• 19:26
  John: You know, one of the things the retail sector has, Trust, traffic, uh, convenience and clinicians.
• 19:34
  John: And I think the, all of that adds to.
• 19:38
  John: The healthcare service stack, if you will, and if with by connecting everything or connecting more of the system through technology, the emergence, which we we're not gonna talk about because we both agree on it, uh, the standardization of data and data transfer.
• 19:54
  John: Is going to allow us to sort of seamlessly, perhaps with some artificial intelligence, connect more of those patients to more of those care access point at a time when care access still is important.
• 20:06
  John: Retail's gonna be even more relevant in 23 than ever.
• 20:10
  John: And I think that what's gonna be interesting is each of the retailers, each of these large scale, innovative retail companies, it's gonna take, um, some, some, some common and some and some not.
• 20:21
  John: So, Paths to, to, to drive that.
• 20:24
  John: So John,
• 20:24
  David: I think you need, one thing I'm gonna predict is that you're gonna come up with a little, a little catchier way of saying that in 2023.
• 20:29
  David: So I heard the f I think you need the four Ts.
• 20:32
  David: , I heard trust traffic and then you said convenience and something else.
• 20:34
  David: What was that?
• 20:35
  David: What was the other one?
• 20:37
  David: Connection.
• 20:37
  David: So tt.
• 20:38
  David: C.
• 20:38
  David: C, you don't have to be illiterate.
• 20:40
  David: Trust, you know, stop.
• 20:41
  David: Yeah, I like alliteration, John, as much as I like Assonance, but I say trust.
• 20:47
  David: Trust, traffic.
• 20:49
  David: Therapist or, that's not good cuz that's a T, but that's the wrong sound.
• 20:53
  David: We'll have to work on that one.
• 20:54
  David: All right, Sean, I gonna, I gotta make prediction number nine.
• 20:57
  David: Okay.
• 20:58
  David: For 2023, the last one, I think it's gonna be a relatively mellow political year for healthcare.
• 21:05
  David: It's gonna be a pragmatic year.
• 21:07
  David: There's not gonna be a lot of stuff at the federal level, and there's gonna be state level initiatives.
• 21:11
  David: That's gonna be the, the laboratory of innovation, the states, they're gonna work nicely together and it's gonna be mellow politically.
• 21:17
  John: Oh, you finally come up with optimism.
• 21:20
  John: First of all, that is only prediction number 10, David.
• 21:22
  John: Um, but let's be honest, the the, we will not escape the divisiveness and division of this country, but hopefully, Uh, leaders in the public sector can quietly work with leaders in healthcare to keep the politics of healthcare mellow.
• 21:39
  John: But I fear that at the, at the, whether it's about, um, uh, gender identity or vaccine.
• 21:46
  John: I mean, you know, you got DeSantis al already, uh, uh, Uh, pre disqualifying himself from a presidential race by suggesting that all the vaccine vaccine information was wrong, having, having reversing a position where he actually wanted everybody vaccinated.
• 22:00
  John: No, I think the politics of healthcare are gonna stay hot.
• 22:03
  John: I, I, I just hope that they stay irrelevant as well.
• 22:07
  John: But David with that?
• 22:08
  John: Yeah, David, I mean, come on.
• 22:09
  John: I, I, I thought you'd come up with something maybe we could agree with, but No, we will continue arguing well into 23.
• 22:15
  David: Well, John, I think, unlike the person you just mentioned, we're gonna stay hot and relevant in 2023.
• 22:20
  David: Uh, that's it for yet another episode of Care Talk.
• 22:22
  David: And in fact, that's it for.
• 22:24
  David: Yet another year of care talk.
• 22:26
  David: John, it, it has been great, uh, care, talking with you this year.
• 22:29
  David: We got to do a little bit in person.
• 22:31
  David: We had some great guests, we had some great topics.
• 22:33
  David: Uh, you still are very reliable in calling me an idiot and so I always appreciate that.
• 22:38
  David: Something to look forward to.
• 22:39
  David: Well, I'm David Williams.
• 22:41
  David: President of Health Business Group, and
• 22:43
  John: I'm John Driscoll, the president of Walgreens Health.
• 22:45
  John: David, I also always learned something from you, so thanks for another great year of Care talk and if you liked what you heard, you didn't, please subscribe on your favorite service.
• 22:54
  John: Thanks for listening.