Latest / Adventure Sports Podcast / Ep. 1222: Rewild Safaris Around the World with James Ward

Transcript

Ep. 1222: Rewild Safaris Around the World with James Ward · Adventure Sports Podcast

0:06
[SPEAKER_00]: your listening to the Adventure Sports podcast.
0:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for adventuring with us as we discover what incredible athletes and outdoor enthusiasts are doing all over the world.
0:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Now here's your host, Kurt Lindville.
0:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey friends, thanks for tuning in today.
0:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been doing a lot of soul searching about this podcast.
0:27
[SPEAKER_01]: you know we started this podcast eleven years ago and actually we we had several motivations one was to sell natural fuel backpacking stoves another was because i really believed that adventure and outdoor activities connecting with nature could really improve people's lives and i still believe that
0:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Matter of fact, I've seen it and heard it from, well, we're on episode 1,222 now.
0:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So many people.
0:57
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been such an honor, such an honor to meet these people and to be able to ask them questions.
1:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And when I, you know, when I conduct an interview, what I try to do is ask a question that you the listener might be curious about.
1:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just trying to represent you in a conversation with someone who has great stories and life experiences to share with the rest of us to hopefully inspire us so that we get out there and do the things ourselves.
1:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a lot of value in that.
1:28
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the Adventure Sports podcast has been going now for 11, almost 11 and a half years and in that period of time, we have over 6 million downloads, 6 million, that's not a small number.
1:42
[SPEAKER_01]: 6 million times, people have downloaded the show and listened to it because something about the show is working.
1:51
[SPEAKER_01]: It's helping people and I believe that the reason that I reacquired the adventure sports podcast from Mason was because his life got too busy and he just couldn't keep up with it anymore.
2:01
[SPEAKER_01]: It is a huge commitment, a lot of time.
2:05
[SPEAKER_01]: matter of fact it impacts my personal life and ways that you may not expect.
2:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Just the sort of idea that oh I've got a squeeze in an interview and I have to edit an episode and I have to run the financials and answer the emails and get more guests and I have to interact with people who are saying when is my episode coming up which is I mean it's all fine it's just the day to day business right but you put all of that on top of a
2:34
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just tiresome.
2:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Over time, you get to the point of, wow, is this really worth it anymore?
2:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And the money's not worth it.
2:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I can tell you that right now.
2:44
[SPEAKER_01]: There's not much money coming through this show.
2:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't do it for the money.
2:50
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do want to talk about money for a minute.
2:52
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I continue running the adventure sports podcast because I believe it offers a platform for adventures and people that love the outdoors to share and inspire us.
3:05
[SPEAKER_01]: That's really the driving factor, but I have a secondary reason.
3:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a book that I would like to promote more.
3:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I would like to start a second podcast.
3:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And you heard it here first, the second podcast won't be about adventure sports and how they improve life.
3:20
[SPEAKER_01]: It would be about life skills and how we can all live better lives in general.
3:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think there's a real need for that.
3:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's an alignment with the book that I wrote.
3:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was hoping that by keeping the adventure sports podcast alive, I would also open up a door so that I could put more time and energy into promoting the book and the second podcast as well, because I felt like more good could be done that way.
3:48
[SPEAKER_01]: However, I just took a new position and it's very, very demanding and I have less time than ever.
3:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And in my prior position, I was able
3:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And the thought there was that perhaps the podcast would provide enough revenue to cover the lost pay for taking that day off.
4:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And it did not.
4:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Matter of fact, it ended up costing my family a lot of money, which it was a bad idea.
4:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And in my new position, I don't get a day off a week, so now I'm really struggling with the time constraints.
4:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I still want to keep doing it, but this is the reason why I've been doing this whole searching about this show.
4:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I really believe that the Adventure Sports podcast has been wildly successful and continues to be successful, and it's making a difference in the world.
4:37
[SPEAKER_01]: a positive impact in the world.
4:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So it has value.
4:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to see it go.
4:42
[SPEAKER_01]: In wrestling all of these ideas, I thought something's got to change, and I don't know what changes will make all of this work better.
4:51
[SPEAKER_01]: All I do know is that we can't keep doing things the same way that we always have in expect different results.
4:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
4:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So here's one thought that I had.
5:00
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the ads that play at the beginning of the show and at the end of the show and sometimes you'll hear some in the middle as well, that are add insertions.
5:10
[SPEAKER_01]: They're pre-recorded ads from various companies that want to advertise and are hosting platform for the podcast inserts those ads.
5:19
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't ask me about which ads they can run other than I select categories that I don't want played and I tried to always find ads that would work for the audience and
5:29
[SPEAKER_01]: here's what I'm thinking.
5:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I find those ads intrusive.
5:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I find those ads frustrating.
5:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like that advertising is actually probably hurting the show.
5:43
[SPEAKER_01]: People get tired of hearing it and they're like, oh, he just wants money.
5:47
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of interesting because, I mean, who wouldn't love it?
5:50
[SPEAKER_01]: if they made a lot of money doing something that made a positive impact in the world and that they also love doing.
5:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that would be fantastic.
5:57
[SPEAKER_01]: But the reality is that those pre-recorded ads at the beginning and at the end of the show, they really don't make much money for the adventure sports podcast.
6:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think the amount of revenue that they generate might be doing more harm than good.
6:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I thought, well, why am I doing the podcast in the first place?
6:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
6:20
[SPEAKER_01]: It's because I believe in the value of outdoor sports, connecting with nature and adventure to make lives better for everyone.
6:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So this morning as I was thinking about this, I thought there's probably a better path forward.
6:34
[SPEAKER_01]: To be frank, if several of you decided to go on to Patreon and give $5 a month, it would cover those ads and we wouldn't have to listen to them anymore.
6:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And if all of you went on Patreon and gave only $5 a month, then I think I would be able to start the second podcast, the one that I hope would increase the amount of good that we're able to contribute.
6:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, we all would do our part to make the world a better place, and that's what I would love to do.
7:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So here's what I've decided.
7:05
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a good faith effort.
7:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I am going to turn off those add-insertions at the beginning and at the end of the show.
7:12
[SPEAKER_01]: We will need to hang on to the host voice dads that happen in the middle of the show.
7:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And matter of fact, we need a little bit more of that kind of advertising to keep the show going.
7:22
[SPEAKER_01]: We really do.
7:23
[SPEAKER_01]: That's critical for us.
7:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I consider you, my friends, even though I haven't met most of you, and I don't want to do that to my friends.
7:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just like, let's turn off the advertising.
7:33
[SPEAKER_01]: So those annoying pre-recorded ads at the beginning and at the end of the show, those are going away.
7:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And here's my hope.
7:41
[SPEAKER_01]: In my request, will you please consider going on Patreon searching for the Adventure Sports podcast and supporting the show?
7:50
[SPEAKER_01]: If you would be willing to support the show, it makes it so much easier to keep the show going.
7:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And who knows, I would love it if we could become a Patreon supported program entirely and not run any advertising and I expect there will be more changes in the future because I want the adventure sports podcast to continue to provide all that it has provided for the last.
8:17
[SPEAKER_01]: 11 and a half years.
8:20
[SPEAKER_01]: But I want to do it in a way that works better for you, the listeners, the adventure sports podcast family.
8:26
[SPEAKER_01]: If you have ideas, if you have things that you think would make the show better, or perhaps you have ideas about how to get the word out so that more people can find out that the show is there.
8:37
[SPEAKER_01]: in the early days of podcasting, you know, a decade ago, there wasn't that much content available.
8:44
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't terribly difficult to grow a show.
8:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it took a lot of effort and we worked very, very hard at it, obviously, but Apple podcasts and others would promote your programming just because they wanted to make sure that the platforms had enough programming that people would have a variety.
9:02
[SPEAKER_01]: and that's no longer the case.
9:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Now they have too much programming.
9:07
[SPEAKER_01]: There are too many podcasts out there and everyone is competing for just a little piece of the pie, a sliver a nibble of the pie that's available.
9:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And so the podcast industry has really, really changed.
9:21
[SPEAKER_01]: The adventure sports podcast is doing far better than most, but it certainly is not lucrative.
9:27
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll just say it that way.
9:29
[SPEAKER_01]: But the real issue here is that the podcast industry has changed.
9:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's very difficult for people to find a podcast.
9:37
[SPEAKER_01]: You just kind of get buried in the noise.
9:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So we can't rely on the industry itself to grow the show.
9:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Nor should we try.
9:45
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm looking for new and innovative ways to do that.
9:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, here I'm going to lift a hood on one more thing.
9:50
[SPEAKER_01]: If you go to our Instagram page, we have something like 6,000 followers.
9:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And when we post an Instagram post, it might get 200 views.
10:01
[SPEAKER_01]: 200 out of 6,000 followers.
10:04
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just perplexing to me.
10:06
[SPEAKER_01]: The world of social media, the even the world of podcasting, it's become so oversaturated.
10:12
[SPEAKER_01]: People always say, get on social media, that way you can let the world know that the Adventure Sports podcast exists, but the reality is it doesn't reach many people.
10:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm looking for fresh ideas, and the new podcast that seemed to be doing pretty well, if you look into it, the reason that new podcasts that you've seen come up that have really strong following, the reason they're doing well is because they had
10:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they've invested probably millions of dollars.
10:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not kidding.
10:40
[SPEAKER_01]: To promote their podcast to try to grow it, they're doing it on a commercial level that independent podcasts like ours just, we don't have the resources to even dream about that.
10:51
[SPEAKER_01]: So, they're putting a lot of money into advertising and
10:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And many of them have organizations like National Public Radio who are backing them and actually footing the bills.
11:03
[SPEAKER_01]: The podcast branch of those organizations is actually supported by like the organization itself, not the other way around.
11:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you have ideas about ways to grow the show, that would also help us a lot.
11:17
[SPEAKER_01]: that's it.
11:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just shared my heart with you.
11:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I am turning off the ads at the beginning and at the end of the show.
11:25
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually going to be tricky to get those ads all turned off in the middle of the show.
11:29
[SPEAKER_01]: The platform doesn't make that easy, but I'll see what I can do.
11:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm reducing the number of ads that you have to hear and I'm thinking you in advance for going to Patreon searching
11:43
[SPEAKER_01]: The Adventure Sports Podcast has thousands of listeners, and I don't want to let you guys down in any way, and I am so thankful for the amazing guests that come on the show, but the business reality of the show, well, it's challenging.
11:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So enough of that, let's get on with the program.
12:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Today's guest is James Ward, and he runs rewild safaris.
12:08
[SPEAKER_01]: He is traveled all over the globe, taking people to amazing places in nature and helping them to experience it more fully.
12:16
[SPEAKER_01]: His life is fascinating, and he's also in it just out of this world, wildlife photographer.
12:23
[SPEAKER_01]: You need to go to his website and look at his photography.
12:26
[SPEAKER_01]: It's spectacular, but I really enjoyed visiting with James.
12:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's dive into the episode.
12:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey friends, thanks for joining us today.
12:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I have James Ward with us in Unblown Away.
12:40
[SPEAKER_01]: This photography is out of this world, but not only that, I'm very impressed with their approach to sharing nature with other people.
12:50
[SPEAKER_01]: James, welcome to the program.
12:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, thanks a lot.
12:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry to be here.
12:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I always tell everybody, I don't want to make an infomercial out of the Adventure Sports Podcasts.
13:00
[SPEAKER_01]: When people come on and have a business or a product or something, I say, we're adventure forward, which we're going to do today.
13:07
[SPEAKER_01]: But I had to bring up ReWild Safari's at the beginning just because I was so impressed by your website and by what you're doing and where you take people.
13:17
[SPEAKER_01]: This is not going to be an infomercial.
13:18
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to be talking about crazy adventure all over the world.
13:22
[SPEAKER_01]: you have safaris showing up on your website for places all over the globe and in way of explaining the kind of travel that's possible, can you list destinations for us?
13:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, obviously once you say Safari Africa becomes a prime destination, so we probably work in about 15 different countries and increasing in Africa, and then all of a South America, including Patagonia, Southeast Asia, Asia, and then the polls, pretty much anywhere there's great.
13:55
[SPEAKER_02]: adventure, great wildlife stories and great conservation stories.
13:58
[SPEAKER_02]: We want to get as many people out to experience the wild in an intimate level as we can.
14:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to emphasize one thing you just said there you said the polls there's a whole lot that falls under that you do stuff around the the Arctic Circle in the North in Alaska other places Canada ISM Canada in northern Europe up in Spalvard so we've greenland we can offer greenland as well and then obviously down into the Antarctic as well.
14:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
14:32
[SPEAKER_01]: There's so much.
14:33
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of times when people think so far, they only think Africa.
14:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
14:38
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why I wanted to highlight this.
14:39
[SPEAKER_01]: You have been to the places and distorted kind of with wildlife photography for you.
14:47
[SPEAKER_02]: I did.
14:48
[SPEAKER_02]: My first trip was with my family in 1989.
14:52
[SPEAKER_02]: My father was a amateur wildlife photographer brought us along to Tanzania in Rwanda and allowed me to use one of his older cameras and from that point forward I've just fallen in love with it.
15:05
[SPEAKER_02]: It's grown and morphed into being able to tell
15:10
[SPEAKER_02]: great stories about being in the wild and about conservation and the importance of conserving the wild and the wild spaces.
15:19
[SPEAKER_01]: We're talking about 37 years.
15:22
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of experience.
15:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's been a long time and I'm super lucky to do it, right?
15:30
[SPEAKER_02]: So I get to see some incredible places, meet some incredible people all over the world, you know, a big part of what we do is community.
15:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I've been into some remote communities and it's amazing to see and to learn about different cultures while I'm doing this and see how they interact with wildlife in the wild in some of the most remote places in the world.
16:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Well listeners, if you're near a computer
16:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Not if you're driving down the road, obviously, but go to rewild safaris online and look at that or go to the Instagram page, stay WJW wild photo because you need to be able to see what we're talking about.
16:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I think adding the visual to this conversation is going to be very, very valuable.
16:25
[SPEAKER_01]: It's such amazing work.
16:28
[SPEAKER_01]: James, before I hit record.
16:32
[SPEAKER_01]: We kind of took off having a lot of fun just chatting about this stuff.
16:35
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the things that I mentioned that I would like for you to come in on again.
16:39
[SPEAKER_01]: It's always hard to answer a question twice, but...
16:42
[SPEAKER_01]: What I mentioned was that I've always been self-guided everywhere.
16:47
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, whatever travel I do, whatever backpacking I do, I've always just I made my own plans, I got it the on my own trip, I'd bring people along.
16:55
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I would carry my own gear and take my own risks and that's the way I always like to do it.
17:01
[SPEAKER_01]: When I climbed Kilimanjaro in January was the first time that I ever handed any piece of gear to someone else and said,
17:09
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, and that felt so weird to me, so strange to have porters.
17:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're working with LTE as a travel, which by the way, just did an incredible job.
17:21
[SPEAKER_01]: But it was hard for me to give a back to a porter.
17:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I felt so awkward about that.
17:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think sometimes travelers do feel strange about saying, I'm going on a guided trip to Patagonia and these people are taking care of all this
17:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's interesting because it happens to us a lot, right?
17:44
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just got back from O'Wanda three days ago and you do the guerrilla tracks and the reporters there and the first thing they say is please hire a reporter and a lot of people just like you feel awkward about it.
17:58
[SPEAKER_02]: They're carrying their water or maybe they're carrying a rain jacket but they're used to carrying their own stuff.
18:04
[SPEAKER_02]: But what we tell them is you, this is,
18:07
[SPEAKER_02]: a huge economic opportunity for these people, who live in areas that don't have a lot of opportunity.
18:14
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it's more about creating that for them and creating a livelihood for them, that that is the important part of it.
18:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's every person that we have that ends up hiring the porter or handing the porter
18:36
[SPEAKER_02]: happy and how appreciative those porers are that you've hired them to do that job, you know, and I think you mentioned it that you were told after that if they weren't doing this they would be
18:48
[SPEAKER_02]: in the streets.
18:49
[SPEAKER_02]: In the wildlife space, if they weren't doing us, they would actually be in those forests or in those wild spaces extracting because they'd have no other way of making money.
19:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's places where you go that the forests are disappearing because there isn't eco-tours in there.
19:06
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not hiring local communities.
19:09
[SPEAKER_02]: And so people are taking the wood just to sell firewood because that's the only way they have to make a living without being a
19:18
[SPEAKER_02]: or other benefits from ecotorism into the area.
19:22
[SPEAKER_01]: What's fascinating about that to me is the way that so many people benefit.
19:28
[SPEAKER_01]: my fear was that some of these people that are, you know, being porters and guides in places like these beautiful remote places on earth that they kind of make fun of the people that show up because, you know, they're the experts and we might be pretty ignorant of what to do in that location and I kind of thought, oh, this is awkward, you know, they're probably
19:49
[SPEAKER_01]: behind closed doors laughing at us and that's a silly thing for me to say I think it was the second night I mentioned this to you already but the porters gathered together and you know introductions were made songs were sung and the lead guide shared with us.
20:06
[SPEAKER_01]: you know how the trip was going to go and who all these people were that were helping us and on Kilimanjaro.
20:11
[SPEAKER_01]: They were joyful.
20:12
[SPEAKER_01]: They were enthusiastic and they weren't pretending.
20:15
[SPEAKER_01]: They were so authentic and they were so glad to be there and to be a part of making our dreams come true.
20:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And it totally changed my opinion about it.
20:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think I grew up a little bit and realized, man, if we're blessed enough to be able to go on these trips,
20:33
[SPEAKER_01]: then it's beautiful to bless the people that are making a living by making the trip better for us.
20:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what happened on Kilimanjaro.
20:42
[SPEAKER_01]: We got to the summit all 15 of us and I think that without Altaz is helping us out, most of us wouldn't have made it.
20:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
20:51
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, we accomplished something that was a lifelong dream for me anyway, because it was a team effort and the local people were helping, and that opened so many doors.
21:02
[SPEAKER_01]: James, I was so thankful for that, and so I'm rethinking my whole idea about travel and adventure to include more instructors, more guides, more locals, because I think it just enhances the experience so much.
21:18
[SPEAKER_02]: It does, you know, one of the, my favorite things about this type of travel and going to these places around the world is, he gives you perspective, perspective of different ways of that people live.
21:31
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, you mentioned the singing and the dancing.
21:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I have a lot of people I travel with who are awkward around that, because they say, they're just putting on a show for us because we're here, what they don't realize is that's the culture.
21:47
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's, you know, one of the toughest things I tell travelers are that I don't bring your preconceived notions or your culture and try to put it on somebody else.
21:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Open up to the possibility that people live differently everywhere and enjoy their culture.
22:05
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it is interesting.
22:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And it is an important part of ecotourism is to hire local communities.
22:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.
22:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we've got to get some stories.
22:16
[SPEAKER_01]: It's story time.
22:18
[SPEAKER_01]: You've been so many places.
22:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Done so many amazing things.
22:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Your photography is out of this world.
22:24
[SPEAKER_01]: But man, can you pick out one experience?
22:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So you'd like to share with us that you just found life impacting, you know, a man had I never gone on that trip.
22:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Where would I be today?
22:35
[SPEAKER_01]: You know?
22:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, my first safari was amazing.
22:40
[SPEAKER_02]: It was probably my second or third safari, my first safari that I went, it was just my father and I, and we went to Zimbabwe.
22:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I just graduated college.
22:51
[SPEAKER_02]: We went for about three weeks, and we camped out.
22:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And by camping out, I mean, we slept outside in the bush.
23:01
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, I mean, it was a campground.
23:05
[SPEAKER_02]: And by campground I had one barbed wire around and then had a bathroom facility, a gazebo and a grill, but we left the tents in the vehicle and slept in the gazebo and that first night.
23:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I just, I don't know, I was two, three o'clock in the morning and I do the bathroom really badly and I hear this sound and I knew what it was and it was a leopard and I could hear this leopard pretty close and I was like, I can't get up and find it's like I have to get up so I just got up, go to the bathroom and jump back in my sleeping bag.
23:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know why, I don't know why I thought that being in my sleeping bag would be any safer than standing out by the tree but, um,
23:46
[SPEAKER_02]: fall back asleep, wake up, we have our guide, and my father and I said to him, listen, there's a leopard around.
23:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I heard it in class night, we need to go look at it, and they thought I was nuts.
23:56
[SPEAKER_02]: We drive quickly in the morning, didn't find anything, go back to camp, we're making breakfast, and guide calls me over, and he shows me leopard tracks of a large male.
24:10
[SPEAKER_02]: from the night before, and basically what it was, we were about a quarter mile from the water hole, and the pride of lions, that's where they were.
24:17
[SPEAKER_02]: They were having the water hole.
24:19
[SPEAKER_02]: This leopard came in to camp, because it was a bird bath with some water in it.
24:24
[SPEAKER_02]: And for three straight nights, it came in and drank.
24:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And I would say 40 feet from where we were sleeping.
24:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and then our trip,
24:33
[SPEAKER_02]: We, the way my father and I were going safari, we would drive to a water all and we were in Longa National Park in Zimbabwe where they have, they pump water and the whole purpose is to keep the elephants in the park so that there's less human wildlife conflict.
24:50
[SPEAKER_02]: So when you're there in October timeframe that we were there and the natural waters dried up, the wildlife
25:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Part of the vehicle and then get out and sit on the ground and spend the day and see what came in and We would have elephants Walk ten feet in front of us between us and the water hole and and if they would look at you and if they were a little bit too curious You're just dying on like the ecologist to say listen.
25:20
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a human
25:23
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's metal, it's human that you were not of interest in, they would walk right by.
25:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And I, I got three weeks of that with, you know, just my father and a guide.
25:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was just, it was a life-changing experience for me.
25:37
[SPEAKER_02]: It taught me a lot, taught me a lot about patients, taught me a lot about just enjoying nature.
25:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And also being present, and, you know, I got to spend, you know, uninterrupted time with my father, just sitting there and enjoying nature.
25:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Mmm.
25:54
[SPEAKER_01]: That sounds so good.
25:57
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a, it's the, to me, it's also, it's shaped how I try to share some of ours with people.
26:04
[SPEAKER_02]: It's, you know, a lot of trips, it's anything, some of ours, you're bouncing and trying to see so much, right?
26:11
[SPEAKER_02]: You're thinking it's a once in a lifetime trip, and I want to see as much as I can.
26:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I believe if you try to do that, you miss it all, so slow it down.
26:21
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, slow travel, slow so far, you just sit and enjoy and learn.
26:26
[SPEAKER_02]: about one or two places, really engage in that, to me it's just a much better experience and that's what we try to do when we design for other people.
26:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to visit some more stories too, but I'm going to interlace that with some more kind of business-related questions, re-wild.
26:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So hearing a wild safari, people think of that, but yours is re-wild for a reason,
26:56
[SPEAKER_02]: There's two main reasons, re-wilding as a big conservation movement, where you're basically re-wilding wild spaces where wildlife has been
27:09
[SPEAKER_02]: eradicated.
27:10
[SPEAKER_02]: So it can be a re-wilding rhinos in the areas that they are no longer or, you know, Puma's down in South America.
27:18
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's one reason because we're, our, so far as our very conservation focused, everything we do is about supporting conservation, supporting local communities to try to protect these wild spaces.
27:30
[SPEAKER_02]: The second thing,
27:32
[SPEAKER_02]: is we re-wild the driver.
27:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And by re-wilding the driver, we're getting you back to nature.
27:39
[SPEAKER_02]: We're introducing you back into nature.
27:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And on all of our lives, especially here in the US, busy, a lot of city life, I don't think we appreciate nature as much as we should.
27:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And so what we're trying to do is connect you back with that and that appreciation.
27:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's health benefits.
28:00
[SPEAKER_02]: But one of my favorite books is called the Comfort Crisis, and it talks about how important it is for our bodies, our mental health, our overall health to be in touch with well and get out into nature, and so we're just, we're trying, that's what we try to do, and that's what the rewilding, the more important part of the rewilding are.
28:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.
28:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
28:22
[SPEAKER_01]: We raised our family in the in the forest at 8600 feet here in Colorado and literally we were in the forest.
28:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've been backpacking off and on, you know, for a lifetime.
28:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I have seen amazing wildlife things, but it's not every trip.
28:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and matter of fact, most trips I would say I don't see anything much bigger than a squirrel or a bird, you know?
28:50
[SPEAKER_01]: the wildlife sees us.
28:51
[SPEAKER_01]: For sure.
28:53
[SPEAKER_01]: They see us and we see the sign of the wildlife around us.
28:56
[SPEAKER_01]: But the reason I bring this up is, you know, I've had many, many dozens of barren counters, not backpacking at my house because they had been habituated to be too comfortable with humans and they would show themselves.
29:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I've had a few encounters with moose.
29:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Those were wildlife encounters backpacking for real.
29:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I've had a few encounters with elk and deer and the ones that are the most mysterious to me have been the mountain lions because I don't see them when I'm out there, but sometimes I see where they have come to visit us, you know, kind of like your leopard story.
29:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess the reason I bring that up is a lot of people think man, I would really love to see some some animals in their natural habitat.
29:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And if they just wonder off into the woods to see an animal, it's not likely that they're going to.
29:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's another reason why working with a local people can make a huge difference.
29:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you speak to that?
29:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, let's just like the mountain lions.
30:03
[SPEAKER_02]: The last thing animal one do is encounter humans, especially in places that have been poached or there's been hunting, they relate that, they relate you, you know, something in two legs walking as a threat, and they're going to move on.
30:17
[SPEAKER_02]: And they know those woods up there and we do, and so they know where to go hide, or even in Africa, if you're in the Savannah, they're just not, when you go on a walking safari,
30:28
[SPEAKER_02]: except in places where the wildlife is really habituated.
30:31
[SPEAKER_02]: You see less.
30:32
[SPEAKER_02]: The walking support is more about learning about the other things learning about the tracks.
30:38
[SPEAKER_02]: So having a guide that knows the behaviors and knows how, it's from the smells to obviously wind direction and properly tracking.
30:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they can get you closer to that wildlife.
30:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Or in a vehicle, especially,
30:53
[SPEAKER_02]: They'll see those tracks, they know how fresh they are, they know where they're having, they know the behaviors of those animals and you just have a much higher success of having a great wildlife experience than even self-driving through some of these parks and hoping to see these things on your own.
31:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's a funny story.
31:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I have a lot of times when you're in bush camps, or pretty much every bush camp you're in.
31:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And a bush camp needs you are in the middle of that wildlife area.
31:24
[SPEAKER_02]: And so at night the animals come through your camp.
31:26
[SPEAKER_02]: So they have to walk you from the main area back to your tents with a flashlight.
31:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And I always thought it was window dressing.
31:36
[SPEAKER_02]: What are they gonna do if the hippos in camp?
31:41
[SPEAKER_02]: We were walking and there was an elderly couple in the guide and myself and they had a longer walk to path down to their tent.
31:49
[SPEAKER_02]: So I just stayed at the main path while the guide walked them down.
31:56
[SPEAKER_02]: He had to help them into their tent turn on their lights and I just heard a noise and so sort of moved to the left.
32:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I knew something was in the bush right next to me.
32:06
[SPEAKER_02]: The guy comes back, couldn't see me as like James Laura, James James was like, I'm here.
32:10
[SPEAKER_02]: There's just something in that bush and as I said it, a hippo popped it said, I don't know.
32:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm talking with him seven feet of me, right?
32:17
[SPEAKER_02]: So we moved on and the guy said, I knew that was around because I could smell him and I could tell by the way that birds were calling that there was something.
32:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's when I said, okay, this isn't window dressing anymore.
32:28
[SPEAKER_02]: They know what they're doing because they grew up in this.
32:32
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you knew there was an animal in the hippo, in the dark in the bush, I have total confidence and I've had some fantastic guides.
32:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And we have sightings and experiences wildlife I never would have by myself.
32:47
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just another reason to consider going with a local someone who knows the area because you're going to you're just going to experience so much more.
32:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to throw something controversial out there.
32:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I know there are listeners who are saying, you're just out there pestering the animals.
33:02
[SPEAKER_01]: You should leave them alone.
33:04
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you have to say about that?
33:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, there is ethical viewing first off, so we're not getting too close in pasting them in that sense.
33:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I would love to say that wildlife would survive on its own, but the reality is that there's not ecotorism, most of that wildlife would be gone by now.
33:22
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just the reality of how it is.
33:25
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, if you think about the places and in comparison to the US, you, the US in order to industrialize, basically eliminate most of our wildlife and the great plains, we're probably one of the highest biodiversity places in the world, and no longer, right?
33:44
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was all in the sense of population growth, supporting it for food and industrialization.
33:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Now go into a country in Africa and say, protect this or protect the Congo or protect the Amazon and they're sitting their same way to second.
34:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to protect them and not make money on eco-tours them here.
34:06
[SPEAKER_02]: but you guys already got rid of yours and look at the Americans are living one of the best economies in the world, and we're not.
34:13
[SPEAKER_02]: So there has to be a value to that, to that wireless space to that resource being intact than rather than extractive.
34:24
[SPEAKER_02]: And so that takes ecotorism.
34:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Now there's a proper way to do.
34:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And we publish, we're about to publish on our website, our ethical,
34:33
[SPEAKER_02]: wildlife viewing and our selection of partners.
34:37
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's all based on how we turn.
34:39
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't.
34:40
[SPEAKER_02]: There are places that exploit wildlife.
34:42
[SPEAKER_02]: They bait wildlife.
34:45
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of wildlife photographers and a lot of the photographs you see out there that the reason they were able to get this far is because they baited that wildlife.
34:55
[SPEAKER_02]: And 100% against what I'm about, and 100% against what we will do with our tours or our safaris, our travelers do not visit any place where they're exploding wildlife, feeding wildlife.
35:09
[SPEAKER_02]: or it's a, they're saying it's a conservation reserve, but really it's there to make money to invite people and to get closer to wildlife.
35:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Those are the places that we, that we have.
35:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I like the idea of being very, very remote.
35:25
[SPEAKER_01]: There was something on your website about the stars that caught my eye, but it was something about, you know, maybe the animals are the stars by day, but they're a billion stars by night.
35:39
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I don't remember the exact wording, but that was one of the things that impacted me so much when I was on Kilimanjaro was First of all, seeing the southern sky.
35:48
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't see in the northern hemisphere, seeing stars.
35:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I knew nothing about it.
35:51
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like being on a different plane for me.
35:54
[SPEAKER_01]: But not only that, it's just getting away from the lights and away from the crowds enough to actually experience nature in that way.
36:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Man, of course that makes me think about what it would be like to do that around the polls.
36:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have a story from the Arctic for us?
36:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Something you experienced that was just impacting for you?
36:33
[SPEAKER_02]: and it was negative 40 degrees, but it's cold, but that's just a shock to your system, right?
36:41
[SPEAKER_02]: But it was interesting how, yeah, with the proper deer, obviously, but how beautiful it is.
36:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, Chris that error is, and then at night, the northern lights were, they start off,
36:56
[SPEAKER_02]: good.
36:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And we had about a five minute epic northern light experience.
37:01
[SPEAKER_02]: The sky was moving and fast reds and just the colors of those gases.
37:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Even the people that were there, like we've never seen it this nice.
37:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, on your stars thing, just seeing that in, you know, when you shut all the lights off and you're in an area with zero light pollution and you can see the sky and
37:24
[SPEAKER_02]: it's natural, especially during northern lights.
37:26
[SPEAKER_02]: It was just one of those moments.
37:30
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll never forget it.
37:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I couldn't photograph it, it was just moving so fast that you couldn't photograph it properly, and we just don't blur it anyway.
37:39
[SPEAKER_02]: So you just put the camera down and just watched.
37:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, have you seen the secret life of Walter MIDI?
37:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
37:47
[SPEAKER_01]: The snow leopard sane.
37:48
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to relate to the snow leopard scene.
37:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I do, I do, I do, I quote that to people.
37:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I love it that, you know, because it's, it's the toughest thing as a photographer and it's really tough when you're telling other people who bring him with them.
38:00
[SPEAKER_02]: You do have to know when to put that camera down and just enjoy it.
38:05
[SPEAKER_02]: and it's tough especially for people as their first or second time because they're trying to capture everything.
38:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm lucky that I've been, I've been to Africa almost 50 times.
38:15
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's certain shots that I'm looking for and on that it's like I know I'm not getting that shot.
38:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll I do put my camera and I do just watch.
38:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Mostly I'm sharing with other people, it's not necessarily just for me, but but I tell people one of my favorite times when I get dark enough that the camera doesn't work, but it's still alive enough that you can see and just enjoy it.
38:37
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you're forced to put the camera and just enjoy it.
38:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's wisdom in that.
38:43
[SPEAKER_01]: We always want to capture something in a picture so that we can show other people.
38:48
[SPEAKER_01]: or maybe because we're trying to develop our art, you know, that's real too, for sure.
38:53
[SPEAKER_01]: But man, putting that camera down and memorizing the experience, experiencing it, richly and deeply.
39:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow, that's, you know, but it says I've had a lot of
39:05
[SPEAKER_02]: great experiences with my camera where it's just me and an animal in a remote area.
39:12
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I do at times that there and say, look, this is and just soak the whole thing.
39:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I was in Denali with on a lake with a moose and it was just me, this moose for two hours.
39:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I had taken enough pictures and I said, I'm just going to enjoy this and so I ended up putting the camera down just sat.
39:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I think for the last 40 minutes, it was just sitting and watching and enjoying being so remote in nature and by myself.
39:41
[SPEAKER_02]: There's not many plays in the world that you can do that anymore.
39:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, everyone, I just strangled for some reason and I was trying to use sign language here to see if James could share with us what it was like to have this lifestyle kind of the big picture of, you know, being able to travel this much.
40:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And I say it that way kind of tongue-in-cheek because I know when you travel a lot that, you know, that becomes a job of its own, but what is it like to have a lifestyle where you travel a lot and you're helping other people to have amazing experiences all over the world and seeing things and can you describe that for us?
40:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And my favorite part of doing this sharing it with other people, you know, some of my favorite moments are when it's somebody's first trip and they, we get into the bus that first day or they see that first line or they see that first, whatever animal they're looking for, or that first sky, that first sunset and you see on their face and you're like, okay, we got them like they're, that part of the culture now, they understand the beauty and the
41:00
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, as I mentioned perspective, I feel because I've been exposed to so many different cultures, I, it's helped me have an open mind and also a different perspective, you know, especially in these days with so much going on and so many different thoughts of what should be happening.
41:22
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I just can sit back and say, you know, I compare it to,
41:28
[SPEAKER_02]: other places I've been.
41:29
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, in our house we have a common term we use here as a first-world problem.
41:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, my kids have been with me, my wife's travel a number of times with me, and they all know what that mean.
41:42
[SPEAKER_02]: We used to, we've used it for a long time, but once they started traveling with me, they actually truly understood with me.
41:48
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it does help guide me in all aspects of my life, you know.
41:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I've met people from around the world that I consider close friends.
41:59
[SPEAKER_02]: from totally different cultures.
42:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I've been exposed to that.
42:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I tell people, I, from my experience, the more remote people are, the more friendly they are, and the more opening they are, and part of it is is because I feel like they rely on their neighbors to survive.
42:15
[SPEAKER_02]: So I've been invited to more people's homes than that I just met, then to people's homes probably that I've known for a while.
42:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so it's not just about the wildlife and getting into those wild places, it's the people you meet along the way, the culture you learn about and the food that you get to taste.
42:37
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I knock on what I never tested positive for COVID and I like to say it has been exposed to so many things and my stomach's pretty strong and I, you know, I've eaten food in so many different situations around the world.
42:51
[SPEAKER_02]: One of the coolest things I was able to do was in a remote massage village, the buddy and I went and we ended up buying a goat for.
42:59
[SPEAKER_02]: which is a traditional meal like a celebratory meal and we sat with them around which are the warriors and we just sat around the fire and eat this go with them and it was just such a surreal experience that you know those are the types of things that I remember and and I pinch myself a lot when I'm sitting in these and saying I'm here this is my career and I get to do this all the time.
43:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that we're kind of accustomed in the West to seeing things on TV or something and saying, oh, wow, that's interesting.
43:35
[SPEAKER_01]: But to be there in person, it's got to be a little bit of a, I don't know, juxtaposition because you think, wait a minute, this isn't TV.
43:42
[SPEAKER_01]: This is real.
43:44
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I'm saying?
43:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it hard sometimes to think, no, no, this is a real culture, this is a real interaction.
43:52
[SPEAKER_01]: What does it take for people to get past that?
43:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'm watching something new, you know, into interacting sincerely.
43:59
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a level of comfort that they get from being there.
44:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, it's being in true, are they intruding on somebody else's life?
44:08
[SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, it's almost the opposite for us when you're in the wildlife side, because so many people watching National Geographic or Discovery Channel, and they expect that's what you're going to see when you get there.
44:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And you have to explain those films took two hours, two.
44:25
[SPEAKER_02]: two years plus of people being there to create a two-hour movie, the, and a lot of those films are just spliced together from totally different interactions, like cheetah hunts don't last that long.
44:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Lion hunts don't last as long as they show a national duty.
44:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, and they don't happen all the time, most of them are at night, right?
44:46
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's trying to get people to say, this is what your scene is actually real, what you're seeing on National Geographic's produced, no different than the real world or big brother or all those.
44:56
[SPEAKER_02]: They're all produced for entertainment, the real world is a lot different, and it to me it's more beautiful, because now you get all the senses involved.
45:05
[SPEAKER_02]: you can smell it, right?
45:07
[SPEAKER_02]: You feel that anxiety as some of this stuff is happening.
45:10
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're watching on you, who are you rooting for on this, right?
45:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you feel bad for the pride?
45:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you feel you excited for the the predator?
45:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it just brings all those emotions in when when you get to see it or when you have an elephant who decides to throw out a warning call,
45:31
[SPEAKER_02]: really close to you and it just reverberates it and you realize how big these animals are, right?
45:37
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just totally different than seeing it.
45:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And I tell you, if you have the opportunity and the means to do it, it's well worth.
45:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone always says, then their first trip.
45:46
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a once in a lifetime trip and I say, yep, you're telling me that until on the flight home, you're planning your next trip.
45:55
[SPEAKER_02]: And I would say 98% of those people, they'll say you've changed your right word, apply our nature.
46:00
[SPEAKER_01]: That's fantastic.
46:03
[SPEAKER_01]: What about Patagonia?
46:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I love Patagonia.
46:06
[SPEAKER_01]: It described experiences down there for us.
46:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I've always been so curious about that area.
46:12
[SPEAKER_01]: The culture, the scenery, the natural wildlife, what's it like?
46:19
[SPEAKER_02]: So, Patagonia is one of the, if not the most remote and wild places I've ever been, and people find it hard to believe that, but when you get out in Patagonia, you're away from everything.
46:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's five hour to eight hour drives on dirt roads to get from place to place.
46:41
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I was there with a buddy last year.
46:44
[SPEAKER_02]: We went down to Chilean,
46:48
[SPEAKER_02]: and we had to get gas cans in the back because you can go time without seeing, without sitting at gas station.
46:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And we were there for a week, and we might have seen four other people, the whole time we were there.
47:03
[SPEAKER_02]: And when we were in,
47:04
[SPEAKER_02]: remote, remote beaches, we're in a national park, that's not even opening yet, that, you know, we're on the road, we were able to just take some photos, I threw my drone up and just to check out what it looked like, and I mean, I said to them, if we had seen this picture before, we would have been hiking in this park.
47:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And,
47:26
[SPEAKER_02]: The parks not open, you're not supposed to like in it.
47:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I would have based on what I saw.
47:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Because it was like being in the T-tons with nobody else there.
47:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's a couple of parks and how to go in here that are like that.
47:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I feel like I'm in the grant T-tons with 10 other people.
47:42
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, the conservation story there, what the Tomkins have done in Patagonia is one of the most amazing conservation, private conservation stories in the world, and they have rebounded with the wildlife, and so it's not like being in Serengetti, you're not seeing that volume of wildlife, but the wildlife you see, you know there's a great story to it.
48:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I was there a few years ago in Argentinian Patagonia tracking Puma's then it's funny story we go tracking we find tracks of a Puma and we know she has Cubs.
48:21
[SPEAKER_02]: we think we know which bush she's in.
48:24
[SPEAKER_02]: So they had their cubs and bushes and they've pushed it all to the bush.
48:27
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're sitting up there and you just see oneaco is their main pride.
48:32
[SPEAKER_02]: You just see skeletons of oneaco everywhere.
48:34
[SPEAKER_02]: So you know this poom, a successful hunting but is bringing us all back to where the cubs are.
48:40
[SPEAKER_02]: So we know we're cloning.
48:42
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm sitting there, and we've been waiting in this bush for a while, and I close my eyes for a minute, and the guide wakes me up and is like, listen, I just saw a movement over there, I think she's over there.
48:51
[SPEAKER_02]: So we get up, we start walking, we're looking at the bush, he's pointing at it, and 10 feet to our left.
48:58
[SPEAKER_02]: I look corner of her eye, boom, this poom of pops out of a bush and just gets down and is like, what are you doing here?
49:05
[SPEAKER_02]: And we turn.
49:07
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I left my camera, I'm photographed in the guy's like we got a move and I was like he's like you can take pictures when you get back there was like I'm not going to be this close to a fool again Let's get like I'll photograph while we back up so we get I get some pictures we back up she sits down and we're probably about a hundred yards from her
49:25
[SPEAKER_02]: we sit down, we know that we're pretty sure the cubs are now in this much so we're waiting for the cubs come out.
49:32
[SPEAKER_02]: We know they're pretty new born so they're really young.
49:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Well they weren't coming out.
49:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I was really tired until I went, I fell asleep.
49:41
[SPEAKER_02]: The Puma falls asleep and I'm pretty sure my guide fell asleep.
49:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Finally, we get up.
49:48
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like
49:51
[SPEAKER_02]: we're walking back and he says change like I've had clients here and he said, you know, they all say they're comfortable around wildlife.
49:59
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like I knew you were comfortable with wildlife when you decided to fall sleep on her meters from a swimmer.
50:06
[SPEAKER_02]: But again, didn't see anybody.
50:08
[SPEAKER_02]: You're out in this wild
50:11
[SPEAKER_02]: uh... expanse and nobody else is there and you know patagonia from north to south is so diverse in the environment what the activities are you know and and even east to west right so on the east coast and the argentinians i'd rather on the coastal uh... you know the step so you're the beautiful coast penguins whales seals uh... sea lions
50:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Then you get up into the mountains on a Chilean side, it's pretty much mountains, but then you have condor, poomas, monocos, and plenty of tracking, plenty of hiking in the mountains, glaciers, it is a beautiful destination.
50:54
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to understand that distances are great when you go there, you're not going to see everything unless you're there for like two months, and even that you're pressing.
51:05
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, it's actually one of my favorite destinations to go.
51:09
[SPEAKER_02]: If not my top destination, it's definitely the top three.
51:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So speaking of the challenges, do you have trips that are better for people that might be limited and how much they can carry and how much they can be bounced around?
51:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, all that sort of thing.
51:23
[SPEAKER_01]: and then I do have trips where you really need to be fit and able to do the work.
51:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we designed trips for everyone, all our trips are custom.
51:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I would say most of our safaris are for the former.
51:36
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I would say our typical traveler is 55 in above.
51:42
[SPEAKER_02]: They're mostly retired.
51:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, I have the means to travel.
51:46
[SPEAKER_02]: but they're not as grueling as an adventure.
51:52
[SPEAKER_02]: How to go, Nia, if you wanna do the hikes, obviously those are tougher, we do do more rain forest, Madagascar rain forest, more exploring and tracking, and more remote.
52:03
[SPEAKER_02]: So we have them for all different ability, Borneo, Sumatra, that's more on foot.
52:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And elevation gains with 100% humidity
52:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, you know, I love being in the rainforest.
52:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I've just the primates and the venture of it, but you do have to love a lot of water.
52:24
[SPEAKER_02]: And then some of these places they don't have border.
52:27
[SPEAKER_02]: You are carrying your own stuff.
52:28
[SPEAKER_02]: So when I was in Sumatra, it was the guide originally said, we're going to leave it like nine o'clock.
52:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, actually, I think we're going to leave it six.
52:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Um,
52:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is in the morning.
52:40
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, no, no, we usually leave it nine.
52:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, well, the wildlife is more active early.
52:44
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's we're going.
52:45
[SPEAKER_02]: So I convinced them we're going up.
52:47
[SPEAKER_02]: But by 11 o'clock, I had two, 32 ounce things of water.
52:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I had gone through both of them.
52:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was dripping.
52:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Bye.
52:56
[SPEAKER_02]: My clothes were soaking wet, I'm dripping with sweat.
53:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, part of this, because I was photographing the rangatans and the other moving, so I'm moving in no longer on a path and I'm climbing over things.
53:08
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you want to go deeper in the forest, I said, no, I need to go back, I need to change my clothes and I need to get my water.
53:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I will not survive the rest of the day without that.
53:17
[SPEAKER_02]: So we went down and then went back up later.
53:21
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, so we do offer for all different and, you know, how remote you want to do, we do so far is that are 100% walkings, which are great acted, you know, you can walk from camp to camp, there are camps that we work with that are, they don't even have vehicles at them.
53:37
[SPEAKER_02]: So,
53:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it, you know, last is going to be more grueling because you are hiking in elevation gain or in remote areas.
53:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So we offer it for everybody, you know, wildlife is good news is there's wildlife viewing for all types of people.
53:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's important.
53:57
[SPEAKER_01]: not everybody is ready for the the super heavy lift to be able to get to these places, but it's wonderful that you are providing a way that they can still have the experience.
54:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just another reason to work with a guide, right?
54:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and you know, I actually think that standards of foreign people are in a
54:19
[SPEAKER_02]: two weeks, right?
54:20
[SPEAKER_02]: So they're driving around and the biggest most brilliant thing they do is get in and out of the vehicle.
54:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Some people say you end up getting a core workout because you're trying to stabilize yourself as you're bouncing around, you know, they call it the African massage, but I love getting people on ground level.
54:41
[SPEAKER_02]: no matter what their ability is, like for some part of it.
54:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think you truly appreciate wildlife or nature until you're staring at straight in the face without the protection of the view.
54:53
[SPEAKER_02]: And so my favorite things are, you know, doing walking safaris, where you do see above lower, you do see a lion, and you totally respect the way second.
55:03
[SPEAKER_02]: This is their territory.
55:04
[SPEAKER_02]: This isn't yours anymore.
55:07
[SPEAKER_02]: But there's up in Alaska when the greatest things is to go see brown bears on foot You can see polar bears on foot.
55:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, again.
55:14
[SPEAKER_02]: You need good guys to do that.
55:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Those are the things you definitely should not and cannot do on your own You know, you need trans professionals for that, but Totally safe and it's such a great experience You know, this group I just had in Botswana
55:32
[SPEAKER_02]: We walked two miles in the Okamanga Delta barefoot, and I had a group that probably never thought they'd do that.
55:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And we saw some wildlife, but that wasn't it.
55:43
[SPEAKER_02]: It was the fact that we were walking in the Okamanga Delta barefoot.
55:47
[SPEAKER_02]: We did see an active Haina den, which they were inside, but then when Kamaku's were there, saw other wildlife from afar.
55:58
[SPEAKER_02]: But it was just the adventure side and the excitement of doing that.
56:04
[SPEAKER_02]: And I had some people who are citybound, you know, they were, would have been perfectly happy being in a vehicle, the whole trip, and this, that is what they're talking about.
56:15
[SPEAKER_01]: You've already answered the question I'm going to ask here, but I want to ask it directly.
56:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Why?
56:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Why should people do this?
56:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Why should we go out of a way to travel and to have these experiences?
56:28
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a few reasons, I mean, the first is the only way it's going to all be protected, right?
56:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Third, again, it comes down to money, like everything else in this world.
56:38
[SPEAKER_02]: If that resources more valuable in tact, then
56:42
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to stay intact or if not, it's going to be extracted.
56:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And so doing it right and, you know, a sustainable travel and a sustainable eco tours into these areas are our foreign poor.
56:55
[SPEAKER_02]: But gaining the perspective and learning, right?
56:57
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, there's only so much you can learn from reading a book or
57:02
[SPEAKER_02]: watching it on TV as we mentioned, the going and seeing it firsthand, it gives you that perspective that most people don't.
57:10
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll never be able to get with outgoing.
57:13
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you think all of these experiences have changed you personally?
57:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think I'm more interesting because that's some great stories to tell.
57:31
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, our business that I had with my father was it was always around wildlife.
57:34
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we grew up my dad from the Bronx.
57:37
[SPEAKER_02]: So we went to the Bronx all the time and that was, you know, our connection with it.
57:43
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's, you know, I've learned a lot and I've learned to appreciate the, even the little things, you know, I, I.
57:51
[SPEAKER_02]: One thing that happens when you do it is often as I do it, and people say change you see animals very quickly, and I was like, yeah, because I've learned to what to look like, it's not necessarily looking for the shape, it's movement, it's what doesn't belong, but I can go for a walk.
58:06
[SPEAKER_02]: with my dogs and my neighborhood and down the street and I'll pick out owls or I'll pick out animals and it's those little things even the cardinals.
58:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Today I was on a walk with my daughter and my dogs and saw a beautiful cardinal and just sat there and appreciated that the cardinals, something we see all the time or blue jays, you know it's appreciating the nature
58:28
[SPEAKER_02]: around us as well.
58:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of the things that I see when I travel around the world, human wildlife conflict, it all relates back to what's going on here in the states, especially when you're talking about bears and wolves.
58:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Wolves are a hot topic, in Colorado, especially, right?
58:46
[SPEAKER_02]: You just said they're big vote there.
58:50
[SPEAKER_02]: But learning how these other cultures live with ranching
58:57
[SPEAKER_02]: apex predators and then how that can relate here in the states to create and hopefully bring back some of that wildlife that we had back here because the U.S. had some amazing warmth.
59:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And people don't have to travel to Africa to see.
59:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we have some amazing national parks that you can go see these at, some of these animals at.
59:21
[SPEAKER_02]: It's given me an appreciation for what we have here and what I even have in the backyard.
59:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I look out my window from my home office and everyone's going to want to be a Bobcat running back.
59:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I will stop whatever meeting I am just to watch that Bobcat walking my backyard.
59:41
[SPEAKER_01]: If people want to get involved, to actually go and see something somewhere, what's the best
59:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Do research?
59:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Find a good, you know, if it's rewals of ours, if it's somebody else that they know, find a good agent that is done it, right?
59:59
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of times that I'm on a, on a, on a plane with someone who's traveling and they tell me what they're doing.
1:00:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, you know,
1:00:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't say it to them, but I question it because I don't know how much their agent did it, that they actually experienced and know what you want because you want to have this conversation with whoever you're working with is what are your goals and you want to hear back here's the pros and cons to each.
1:00:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I love slow so far.
1:00:28
[SPEAKER_02]: The people bounce, the traditional so far is
1:00:31
[SPEAKER_02]: two or three nights at a camp, and move to the next mood to the next, and you spend 30% of your trip traveling between camps.
1:00:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I want you to unpack your bag.
1:00:42
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't live out of the bag for two weeks, and enjoy the place you are.
1:00:45
[SPEAKER_02]: So know what you want, what animals you want, and work with a good agent that's able to deliver that, and deliver what your goals are, and not pigeonhole you
1:00:59
[SPEAKER_02]: everybody, you know, the big kind of different strokes for different folks, right?
1:01:03
[SPEAKER_02]: So some people want high luxury and they just want to relax at a camp.
1:01:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Some people want more active.
1:01:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Some people want it want to sit at one location.
1:01:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Some people will say, I want to see half of Africa in two weeks, you know,
1:01:17
[SPEAKER_02]: In those cases, I'll tell them, here's the pros and cons, it's your decision, I can book whatever you would like, but here's the pros and cons to it, and so do some research upfront, talk to people that have done it, and know what you are looking for, what your goals are from that trip, you know, for us it's
1:01:35
[SPEAKER_02]: all about conservation or a big part of it's about conservation so we do include conservation experiences for education opportunities in it.
1:01:46
[SPEAKER_02]: So we don't want people just to become checklist of our people and is checklist that I saw these animals and I was into these places.
1:01:54
[SPEAKER_02]: We want them to be engaged in those places to learn from those places and hopefully they come home as supporters to get some ambassadors for conservation.
1:02:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
1:02:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Well.
1:02:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, this is James Ward, and his company is ReWild Safari's, and the places online to find James are James Ward Photography.com, ReWild Safari's.com, and on Instagram, JW Wild Photo.
1:02:25
[SPEAKER_01]: James, thank you for your time today.
1:02:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I like doing it.
1:02:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing it.
1:02:29
[SPEAKER_01]: You're really helping to experience nature in a way that I'm going to think of the same exact place it wouldn't have the same experience.
1:02:35
[SPEAKER_01]: not without the guides and the help that you offer, so thanks for doing it.
1:02:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, appreciate it.
1:02:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm proud of me.
1:02:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm, oh, you bet.
1:02:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And for everyone out there, you know, you don't have to go far.
1:02:47
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't have to be a big international safari, but learning how to experience nature.
1:02:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
1:02:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, James was talking about that too.
1:02:58
[SPEAKER_01]: The cardinal in the backyard.
1:03:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So whatever you do, make sure you do get out there and have some fun.