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Thirsty For Saw X (SPOILERS) · Thirsty For More - Movie Review

• 0:27
  It's a hello everyone, and welcome to Thirsty First. Saw Hi. Of
• 0:32
  course, I'm your host Malenko. I'm Alex, and today we're talking about
• 0:36
  twenty twenty threes Saw X somehow the most new medal title while at the same
• 0:45
  time not being the most new metal of the movies, while at the same
• 0:49
  time being the most contemporary and drawing from X, which is in the zeigeistdude,
• 0:54
  because Twitter is now Twitter is now X and they're not called tweets anymore.
• 0:59
  They're called X screechs. Did you see this Mayan poster of EX?
• 1:04
  Dude? I love that the Mayan stuff is a part of Solore now and
• 1:10
  they're just including they're rolling with it. Okay, let's how are we gonna
• 1:14
  do this? You should read a Boner Show style recap of the movie,
• 1:19
  and I think we should go because we're going from memory. We just watched
• 1:22
  it. I might include our little preamble that we had in the in the
• 1:26
  theater, dude, Yeah, let me let me see because it was exciting.
• 1:33
  It was exciting going to see this. It was excited exciting seeing this
• 1:38
  with you. We broke some of our cardinal cardinal rules of not making jokes
• 1:42
  and stuff. We had to make some jokes, dude. It was it
• 1:44
  was like, yeah, it's too exciting to watch it with you and be
• 1:47
  like and can we just talk about I know this is like going way ahead
• 1:52
  in its way spoiler territory, but like how much the spoiler? Yeah,
• 1:57
  yeah, don't listen to this episode if you've not seen the movie. It's
• 2:00
  like, this is like one of the movies that you have to like say
• 2:04
  a spoiler for, but from here on in spoilers, dude, Like earning
• 2:07
  the music, earning the music in this movie of like the music was first
• 2:13
  amazing, amazing, and it was like mixed in in this like I was
• 2:16
  saying to Kys, it's mixed in in this kind of like Lynchian kind of
• 2:21
  way where it's like kind of floating in the middle. You sort of like
• 2:25
  it. It's using the mood so much. It's weird. It's it's used
• 2:30
  as score and sound design rather than music, and then eventually it pays off
• 2:38
  as music because because it takes the scoreeness away from it and it's like now
• 2:42
  it's the theme. Yeah, totally totally a second desperate John Kramer, just
• 2:47
  like John Kramer, John Cram Krimer kinda the glorifying of actual Kramer and the
• 2:54
  like case study of it making it John Kramer and not Saw. Is was
• 3:01
  exactly the move that if we were coming up with like a fake Saw story,
• 3:07
  we'd be like, oh my god, dude, oh my god,
• 3:07
  what if it was just about him? What if it was just a drama
• 3:12
  about this psycho? A second desperate John Kramer travels to Mexico two year old
• 3:17
  fifty fifty two year old John Kramer five year olds which will we get to
• 3:27
  travels to Mescos Mescaco uh for risky and experimental medical procedure in hopes of a
• 3:34
  miracle cure for his cancer, only to discover that the entire operation is a
• 3:37
  scam to defraud the most vulnerable he gets. He gets Andy Kaufman. Dude,
• 3:42
  It's it's interesting because this is the movie that the first three wants you
• 3:50
  to set up, and then eventually the like sort of machiavellian second four,
• 3:58
  uh, sort of like you mean next four, yeah, the next four
• 4:03
  after the trilogy, where it's like, oh, yeah, but he's had
• 4:08
  this and this. And also the fact that that you see the Juicy Lives
• 4:13
  and Amanda as friends with him before they he feels betrayed. Well, well,
• 4:18
  we'll talk about we'll talk about that. The fact that this is like
• 4:21
  a part two and three intercoal specifically is pretty cool. Yeah, it's like,
• 4:28
  well, no, it's a part one and two intercoal, is it?
• 4:30
  Because I kept thinking it was part two and three? Because Amanda is
• 4:33
  still alive, she's still working with him. Yeah, and she's not as
• 4:39
  unhinged, but she's growing more unhinged, which gives backstory to why she would
• 4:44
  get more unhinged. Yeah, but wait, wait, explain the timeline to
• 4:46
  me then here, because so it's between one so one, he's already made
• 4:55
  the trap for help somebody help me, right, and then but he hasn't
• 5:01
  started implementing the big traps. It's between one and two. It's between one
• 5:05
  and two. So doctor Gordon and Adam have happened, yes, okay,
• 5:12
  and he's like, I better get this cancer taken care of. Yeah,
• 5:15
  totally, totally. It's it's because she at the end of the movie knows
• 5:21
  who Jigsaw is. Who does the doctor No, the doctor lady, who's
• 5:28
  who's tricking Tobin Bell? Oh right, because she knows him by name as
• 5:33
  Jigsaw. Yes, yes, Jigsaw Law exists exists in the movie. Yes,
• 5:38
  yes, yes, it's kind of cool because man, the way that
• 5:42
  the movie played with the lore of like the other movies, but also kind
• 5:46
  of the lore of the franchise within the like metaanness of the movie. This
• 5:50
  is, like we were saying to each other, this is the first and
• 5:55
  only so far meta modern Saw. This is the meta modern Saw it and
• 6:00
  it does very much not lean into the tropes that we've talked about throughout the
• 6:05
  rest of the series where everybody is like unhinged. It's in a nicer time
• 6:13
  in the timeline Saw because without it seems like, without this character like permeating
• 6:18
  in culture, everybody's way less worse and way less bad to each other.
• 6:25
  They're much nicer totally. And it seems like this movie is also like it's
• 6:30
  trying to further laurify John Kramer within the Saw, Like it's kind of like
• 6:38
  this movie almost like justifies it does what all the other ones do, but
• 6:44
  it knows that it can't do it in the same way. So it justifies
• 6:46
  the past movies in such a bold, smart way, like lurifying Juicy Lips,
• 6:51
  lorifying Amanda, but in like subtle fan service kind of ways, but
• 6:57
  not in ways that feel like fans. No. In fact, the reason
• 7:00
  it doesn't feel like fan service is that they did a Terminator too, which
• 7:03
  is or you could do combination adjust the genre expectations, yes, and setting
• 7:11
  up Jigsaw as a drama and as a person who's really actually trying to think
• 7:19
  of ways to like foe make the world better in this like creepy that that
• 7:26
  like imagined trap. The Imagined Trap was like next level incepting traps because it
• 7:32
  shows John Kramer's thought process, which we've never had before. That's right,
• 7:36
  to make it from the perspective of the psycho and make him the hero anti
• 7:42
  hero, it's the best part kind of amazing, Like he's like, it's
• 7:46
  me, Hi, I'm the problem. It's me totally Taylor in this.
• 7:51
  It's totally Taylor in this, and uh, the the it does the best
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  thing that horror movie anti heroes do, like Maniac Yeah, or the one
• 8:03
  that you haven't seen that I've seen, oh, the last horror film,
• 8:07
  last horror film or what's it called Henry Portrait of serial Killer Dogs really well
• 8:13
  to those movies, can you do this thing where it's like, well,
• 8:16
  we have to have a more evil guy, or we have and a more
• 8:20
  evil guy is just you know. Macody Lund, a actress, at a
• 8:26
  turn to me when she realized the twists, and she was like, so,
• 8:31
  man, he's gonna be getting revenge on everyone one of the twists.
• 8:35
  One of the twists, and like to make it like a revenge fantasy porn.
• 8:41
  It's like a different kind of like saw Jigsaw and Tobin Bell has always
• 8:46
  been the hero, and this movie is acknowledging that Jigsaw has always been the
• 8:54
  hero and to make Freddie was the hero to give us exactly and if we
• 8:58
  never got this withd like we never Freddy never got this treatment of like we
• 9:03
  all are scared of Freddy, but do we know Freddy? You know,
• 9:07
  like it's like nobody ever, like asked Jason one time, and that he
• 9:13
  I don't know. It implies in that movie that he's a pedophile. That's
• 9:16
  the first time. That's the closest we get to a John Kramer moment in
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  a Freddy series. But it's kind of yeah, it's kind of cheap and
• 9:24
  a Freddy if we got a Freddy like this, Like there were some scenes
• 9:28
  in this that were so surreal to see this like fucking geriatric John Cramer just
• 9:35
  walking around being so vulnerable and this guy. Yeah, slow cinema of it.
• 9:39
  I'm like, the slow cinema part of it really worked well for me
• 9:43
  because I was like it actually gave stakes to the debt again and seemed like
• 9:50
  even though we didn't develop the characters as much as some of the other ones,
• 9:54
  like in the way that the other ones tried to pretend to, it
• 9:58
  didn't need to because it was like, you know what I mean, what
• 10:00
  I'll say is it actually I'll say it did develop the characters in a way
• 10:07
  that because it was so solely focused on John that people his relationship for through
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  his relationships and the reactions to people and the dead eyed niceness that everyone had
• 10:18
  to him was amazing, and his surreality in the way that like the people
• 10:22
  tree sick people, it's this movie. And also like something that's amazing is
• 10:28
  the real horror of this movie is kind of the like medical trauma because like
• 10:33
  you get like this like idea of hope, idea of survival all through John's
• 10:39
  perspective, Like we're really getting John's perspective here of like he's like this is
• 10:43
  why I care about hope and survival and giving someone a chance because I feel
• 10:48
  this trapped. I feel like I'm trapped in my body and I'm de and
• 10:52
  like there was something so amazing about that, like him like looking at the
• 10:56
  surgery and happened to himself, and like and the fear and the like desire
• 11:01
  to like, whoa, you look so much better like that, we'll get
• 11:07
  to We'll get to. Yeah, totally, totally. Also the his perspective
• 11:15
  being being that kind of bluish gray perspective and then the sunny disposition. I
• 11:20
  mean, of course Mexico's yellow dude. You you have to go there to
• 11:24
  witness how you yellow the filter is or your eyes. But the the like
• 11:28
  beauty but it worked, are the cold fluess of her and and being like
• 11:37
  a villain and also kind of setting up the the like archetype for his vision
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  of like, oh, they built this really nice place, facility, the
• 11:48
  facility, I could totally do this, see you know what I mean,
• 11:50
  and like got ideas, he got ideas because the traps do change after this.
• 11:56
  Also, how did you guess? How did you guess? Kevin uh
• 12:01
  grew Turt. Grew Turt was the editor of a lot of the Saw movies,
• 12:07
  which is like an incredible thing to think about, Like, how do
• 12:11
  I pivot and make this one totally different than it is? Completely completely?
• 12:18
  Yeah, slow burn it's the longest Saw the credits dude. Immediately, I
• 12:26
  was like, this is gonna be the best one. As soon as the
• 12:28
  showed that font ye modern big over this, it looked like it was like
• 12:35
  somebody was like the wides. It's like, got money now, yeah,
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  we gotta do wides. We got to do slow Burns Saws digital now,
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  yes, very decidedly digital totally. And also it felt like like, no,
• 12:50
  let's since we're doing it in a different country, let's just make it
• 12:54
  Lars one Trier Saw first non Toronto. I kind of missed Toronto as the
• 13:01
  main character in this movie. But yeah, but you can also have a
• 13:05
  lot more money, and it's another country. I know. That's like not
• 13:09
  to be, not to not to be what's it called medical tourism Saw,
• 13:16
  but medical tourism Saw he was, I mean as much as he was medical
• 13:20
  tourism, the movie was also speaking of medical tourism. We get we get
• 13:24
  some interesting stuff of uh, this dude who's in cancer treatment. It's also
• 13:30
  the most Fight Club saw when they're having the meetings meetings, And like,
• 13:37
  I think the Fight Club reference was on purpose because it wanted us to like
• 13:43
  get the hint of Marla being the tourist, because that's that plays in heavily.
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  Because we get to meet the character as what's his name, We get
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  to this really hot, older, jacked, bald, black dude with a
• 13:56
  beard that has like a really hot stomachs. Later on, his name is
• 14:01
  Michael Beach Henry Kessler reminiscent of Henry. He was a Tulsa King dude.
• 14:09
  He's the dad in Tulsa Kid. Dude. He kissed his kissed his sister.
• 14:13
  Yeah, but he was so less jiggle acting, and but they needed
• 14:16
  something to indicate slightly that he was the can't wait to tell Anna that he's
• 14:22
  the dad in Tulsa King. We thought he was so hot there too.
• 14:24
  So he's a canonically taller in this movie. He looks taller because it's because
• 14:33
  he's next to his son, who's way like a head taller than him.
• 14:35
  That's true, that's true his son on the show. That's so funny that
• 14:41
  there's Tulsa Kid crossover. Oh my god, us realizing that amazing he kissed
• 14:46
  his sister. Total, yeah, I think that he was amazing and like
• 14:52
  having the like dank it even looks like fight Club, and like the way
• 14:54
  the camera moved, it's like it kind of also reminded me of Creed a
• 15:00
  little bit in a way, like the movements of the camera, like just
• 15:03
  in the way that like like of the jump from a Rocky to a Creed.
• 15:07
  That's what this felt like. It was like holy shit, like there's
• 15:11
  so much more going on and like there's so much more to think about,
• 15:15
  but it's still so much less going on, like you have one path to
• 15:18
  follow, and it's his character arc into becoming like well, I'm just a
• 15:24
  psycho now well exactly. And it's like the movie. This one's like you
• 15:30
  know this world, you've seen all these movies. It's relying on that.
• 15:33
  But it's also such a stand alone. It could be a standalone. It's
• 15:41
  a total standalone, and it's so much you're right, it's so much from
• 15:46
  his perspective where it's like, oh, you think you do, think you're
• 15:50
  doing a good thing, like and in the in the way that none of
• 15:54
  the other ones ever just ever justify In fact, it's the only question that's
• 16:00
  left. Yeah, it is, it is, and it's the only uh
• 16:04
  it's It's only contrasted with the first one in the sense that like when he
• 16:10
  stands up and you get the fetish aspect of it, where he likes to
• 16:15
  see what's happening, and in this one, he's like not only looking at
• 16:18
  it through cameras, which is what the audience is doing, but he's looking
• 16:22
  directly at it. And he's always through some kind of like looking glass or
• 16:26
  something. There's always like a framing of him being higher than but he's there,
• 16:34
  and the fact that he's there, he was you always felt his presence.
• 16:38
  This almost laurifies the ghostliness of Billy the Puppet appearances totally. Things like
• 16:44
  that, and like having Billy the Puppet like also the use of a few
• 16:47
  things in this, the use of the theme, the sparing use of the
• 16:49
  theme, the sparing use of Billy the Puppet, the sparing use of the
• 16:52
  traps, even like stretching it out and having a lot of traps still but
• 17:06
  having them be in one room. Fairly low stakes, low steaks shot,
• 17:10
  not that complicate, complicated, but look not complicated, like I don't know,
• 17:15
  like a finger bendy trap. The finger bendy trap was the best because
• 17:18
  it was still a dream trap for the guy who's he's a nerve, he's
• 17:23
  a he's a zepp in in the hospital orderly. It's the rules. He's
• 17:30
  an orderly who's like looking shiftily through what's it called some of the guy some
• 17:36
  of the patient's stuff to steal. And then John has a fantasy of breaking
• 17:40
  his fingers while getting his eyeball sucked. And but the do you think that
• 17:44
  for meticism? Do you think that do you think that John Kramer is racist?
• 17:48
  I mean, I think maybe he's a little bit racist. Maybe.
• 17:52
  I mean he is fifty two in two thousand and five, dude, so
• 17:56
  he is the body in this. Yeah, totally, he's like, I'm
• 18:03
  in my mid seventies. I'm a comfortable mid seventies. Totally. Maybe maybe,
• 18:10
  But I mean, this lady is This was decidedly the antithesis. This
• 18:15
  was the most woke of them too, because it was there was a lot
• 18:21
  of empathy towards Oh no, she's a drug addict, Amanda. I have
• 18:26
  Well, that was a cool and interesting Amanda moment when when she has empathy
• 18:30
  towards a drug addict who they're torturing. Yeah, but we'll get to we'll
• 18:34
  get to that because I think the setup of I think the setup of it
• 18:40
  is amazing, having like the implied trap at the beginning, because it's like,
• 18:44
  Okay, we're not going to go too long without a trap, but
• 18:47
  this is a this is fantasy trap. Yeah, and he like thinks about
• 18:52
  a trap because he sees an orderly trying to steal things and it shortly walks
• 18:56
  out and he's like, good choice. He's like, have killed you in
• 19:00
  the bread for something so slight and small? Of like you clearly don't make
• 19:06
  enough money, so you we're considering stealing like that. There's also that reframing
• 19:11
  that he just doesn't think about. That's what was interesting because he when he
• 19:15
  thinks of it, there's such an righteous anger and because we're like in his
• 19:21
  brain and he's thinking about like how he would fucking punish a guy and why
• 19:26
  he would use his fingers for it, he thinks about the why of it
• 19:29
  all. Yeah, the anger is very what's it called falling down? Oh
• 19:33
  my god? But that the woke ification of it is also in the filmmaking
• 19:41
  because everything is like a weirdly low shot behind like in Mexico, especially when
• 19:48
  they see like his like, oh, I'm finally better. I'm having good,
• 19:52
  like a good feeling about this. And then like you see the the
• 19:56
  like sun in the background and it's so perspective, the like lighting at the
• 20:00
  end when it ends with the door opening and its sunshine outside, and it's
• 20:06
  like, whoa dude, we've never seen outside look like this, but from
• 20:11
  his perspective always looks great blue and dark. Except for the tenth one that's
• 20:17
  or the eighth one, which we watched last time, which disappointing, But
• 20:22
  what the eighth one was trying to do? This this is but that's what
• 20:26
  the it just this does the lore of Saul, which it justifies this one,
• 20:32
  the eighth one well because of the fact that it's shot in a new
• 20:36
  way and like gives like like new colors and new t new palate to include
• 20:41
  with exactly exactly. Yeah, it was cool burning the dude's face. Who
• 20:48
  burn took out brain matter? We'll get talking. That was so Can we
• 20:55
  never you could do that in a real life scenario? Can we talk about
• 20:59
  the mechanics of the incepted thought trap? He's got two tubes that cross over
• 21:07
  in an X pattern of course, which is the poster, which is an
• 21:11
  amazing poster, and like also just the idea of eyes and like we're the
• 21:17
  viewer and we're watching this, they're like literally sucking out our eyes, like
• 21:22
  they're still making these. It's kind of almost like a commentary on sequalification as
• 21:26
  well, and which I think is really cool, which also ties into making
• 21:32
  this a sach a standalone movie with like fan service, but it feels that's
• 21:44
  so meta modern dude, Yeah, totally because it stands alone. Side eye
• 21:51
  well, like also the Twin Peaks offication of it too, where it's like
• 21:55
  the third season of Twin Peaks, this is the keyboard that all the major
• 22:00
  themes were created for a Twin Peaks. It's an all Fender Roads also robbed
• 22:07
  everything of nostalgia, and it robs all of the stuff, even the fast
• 22:11
  cutting. The speed cutting also is included canonically in his mind now because it's
• 22:18
  like, oh, that's just his perspective because it never happens again in the
• 22:22
  movie. Well and they okay, and they hear me out here, because
• 22:26
  there's something that simultaneously happens in this movie that I think is really amazing.
• 22:30
  Simultaneously, we get a very obvious elderly John Kramer and a significantly older Amanda
• 22:40
  and juicy lips at the end in a short shot, but like you look.
• 22:45
  Well, we'll get to how everyone looks. But I think that the
• 22:48
  they it's very much like the movies being like we're doing the greatest hits.
• 22:52
  Guys, we're playing the greatest hits. But also like the fact that it's
• 22:59
  the gall of the movie to ask us to believe that these clearly like twenty
• 23:03
  years older characters are playing the same timeline as like the past kind of is
• 23:08
  like the like the brazenness of it is amazing, you know what. But
• 23:15
  also also it's there's like a sadness to it. There is a simultaneous both
• 23:18
  both of those things are true. What I will say is that because Breaking
• 23:22
  Bad just did that, I think it gave a lot of license too.
• 23:27
  I mean, you've got like Walter having like a bald cap on where they
• 23:32
  digitally small his head so that that they can make it, but it still
• 23:37
  looks weird. It still looks like Emmond bald. And you've got like you've
• 23:42
  got fucking once his face playing a teenager what's his name again? They did
• 23:48
  the backwards hat treatment to to what's his fucking name again? Better call Saul.
• 23:53
  What's his name? Oh yeah, Bob ot Kirk where it's just like
• 23:57
  he's in his twenties, but like Steve five year old man, he was
• 24:02
  like fifty something, Bob Odenkirk is also just like he's not the kind of
• 24:07
  guy that can play younger than he is. He wasn't even like when he
• 24:11
  was like in like he is like thirties. He wasn't even this but like,
• 24:15
  hold on though, hold on, this is the thing about let me
• 24:18
  just justify Bob Odenkirk the person you don't need hold on, hold on.
• 24:22
  But the problem with Bob Odenkirk's performance is that he was instead of playing a
• 24:26
  young Bob Odenkirk, which he which would have been better. No, no,
• 24:30
  not that, it's what the hell is wrong with you? Man?
• 24:33
  We know you know that, So just go back to that because that would
• 24:37
  have been more interesting, whereas this was slipping. Jimmy was a little bit
• 24:41
  too much, having to play both sides, like having to be a dramatic
• 24:48
  guy but also having to be a funny guy trying to saw Jellybody, different
• 24:52
  path. Yeah, totally totally. But but maybe I like that show now
• 24:56
  that I like saw dude, dude, you would well like I mean yeah,
• 25:06
  but also the fact you're right there is a brazenness to that, because
• 25:11
  it's like, you don't you have the budget to make things look really interesting
• 25:18
  and big but not really Netflix de aging puppet face budget it and it is
• 25:26
  better for it because we had two billion puppets in the Yeah, totally,
• 25:32
  yeah, totally. The thing that was the problem with Amanda isn't that she
• 25:40
  was too old. You could have gotten away. In fact, it wasn't.
• 25:42
  It wasn't John either. The problem is trying to dress her in the
• 25:47
  same kind of clothing. The problem wig. I hated the wig hat.
• 25:52
  It was too plastic. It was very plastic. You can tell when it's
• 25:56
  shot and digital like this and it's like so high deaf. You can see
• 25:59
  the reins in a way that just like doesn't look good. And I'm like,
• 26:03
  you give, you made this beautiful, amazing movie. You could have
• 26:07
  like invested in a different way. Well, it's fine, but maybe they
• 26:10
  wanted to use the wig from the first No, well that was part of
• 26:14
  it. No, but the well yes, it was part of it,
• 26:17
  but it was the second time that she had short hair, because in the
• 26:19
  first one she has long hair, and they should have just like kept it
• 26:22
  where she just had the long hair from the first one and then cut it
• 26:26
  in the because they showed that kind of stuff in the other sequels that I
• 26:30
  didn't need that same short hair, So you know whatever, that's like,
• 26:36
  what the worst part of the movie, Like, it doesn't really is it
• 26:37
  even, Like I don't even think it's a bad part. I think it's
• 26:41
  interesting. I think it could be looked at in an interesting way of like
• 26:44
  it's kind of calling attention to itself. It's like, look, she is
• 26:47
  wearing a bad wig. Yeah, it is like there's something about it that's
• 26:51
  kind of scrappy, where like it didn't need to be because it looks so
• 26:53
  good. So it feels like it's intentional, totally totally, So where do
• 26:57
  you want to go from here? There's the the guy who tricks the dude
• 27:02
  who's in his cancer treatment. He sees later on and he looks in the
• 27:07
  streets of Toronto and he looks great, and he's like and everything is soft
• 27:11
  focused to everything is like very like they're only in focus nothing else, and
• 27:19
  he's like, oh, you look great. Yeah, he's kind of sad
• 27:25
  about him looking great because he's like there's like a forlorn jealousy. Inn I
• 27:30
  loved I loved it. I was like, what was so nuanced? Like
• 27:34
  he's kind of like, hey, how come you look good? He's like,
• 27:38
  there's jealousy. There's a total thought that jealousy too. He's like,
• 27:42
  he's got I've got a lot to catch you out on. And he's like
• 27:47
  he's almost like choosing a victim like Saw chooses his victims Saw Jigsaw or John
• 27:53
  Kramer is victimized. The character of John Kraber is victimized in the way that
• 27:57
  he victimizes other the people totally. He's like targeted, Yeah, delving,
• 28:03
  delving into the psychology of others, but the psychology is so warped from his
• 28:07
  perspective. Yeah, and then again, they did they did fuck him over.
• 28:12
  That's the best part is that they fucked him over in such a like
• 28:15
  like a horrible way, but in such a the best part is in such
• 28:21
  a realistic way. And that's why that it shows the difference between their principles.
• 28:26
  Yesncip's money, whoa this is fucked up. Don't kill this kid that's
• 28:32
  fucked up. I know, it's like you're giving me election morals. I
• 28:37
  love it, Like it's the kind of English where like English where it's perfect,
• 28:45
  but it's British. And he goes to this. First of all,
• 28:49
  he goes to Mexico. That's what I that's what I call a blue yellow
• 28:59
  did mech Ago? And also, let's be honest, Amanda Broad Billy the
• 29:04
  puppet. He didn't bring Billy. I mean I I were wondering about who
• 29:08
  brought Billy the mubbet on the plane it was he stuffed in a bag.
• 29:11
  Like he was like, you have to bring Billy. He's like one hundred
• 29:15
  percent, but I can't fit the syringes. Bring Billy. Forget about the
• 29:21
  We need the trust. We can get a tricycle here, we can locally
• 29:23
  source, and I need Billy. Yeah, we definitely needed Billy. Also,
• 29:32
  like the not the things that don't make sense in horror movies, totally,
• 29:37
  like he felt like real in this in a way totally. But the
• 29:45
  soft focus. Sorry, I just have to talk about it again for a
• 29:47
  second, because there was there was something that like while John is sitting contemplatively
• 29:52
  and like in parks drawing traps and then like figuring out that he shouldn't do
• 29:59
  traps anymore. It brings up the serial killerness in him, the pain of
• 30:04
  like I should the morals of him doing it, and maybe I should stop
• 30:07
  doing it and try and get help for this thing. But he gets justified
• 30:11
  and the nihilism that he delves into after seeing what humanity quote unquote is can
• 30:18
  do. Yeah, to him, how he gets trick like this is the
• 30:22
  perfect one because yeah, like it's like sorry, you know, like the
• 30:27
  whole time we're thinking why saw you know, we're always thinking like what is
• 30:33
  the justification? What is the motivation? And like delving into that lore kind
• 30:40
  of like takes all and like making it dreamy like it was like it it
• 30:45
  kind of makes the magic of it. Like it's like it is what metamodernism
• 30:48
  is, because like Modernism was trying to make sense of life through these like
• 30:56
  grand narratives, and then postmodernism was pulling apart those grand narratives into oblivion,
• 31:03
  and then metamodernism synthesizing those those two whatever remnants of postmodernism exists, it's holding
• 31:11
  multiple truths. Yeah, and putting them, to slamming them together and not
• 31:14
  only sometimes in contrast to each other, to build something up, to build
• 31:18
  something a completely new thing, because it takes our time of like we have
• 31:23
  so much more of a purview on ourselves because we just have so much content.
• 31:30
  We see so much of ourselves now, so like, you can't make
• 31:33
  movies about the same things in the same way anymore. You can. You
• 31:37
  just have to couch them. That counts them in the proper way context,
• 31:41
  which is what these movies now do. And it's like taking context and making
• 31:45
  it all about the context others. Yeah, this movie flattens all of the
• 31:52
  saw movies in a lot of the same ways that you know, things like
• 31:56
  social media will flatten everything now. It takes all of the contexts and gives
• 32:01
  them to you right away. And what's nice about this one, which I
• 32:06
  think, I know they're not going to do this, but I think this
• 32:08
  should be the last one. I agree. I think it really justifies because
• 32:13
  because it is it is a standalone, it's the best one. Yeah,
• 32:20
  it's also a sequel. Yeah, it also justifies the entire series. Yes,
• 32:23
  uh, And it's a perfect in perfect contrast to the first one.
• 32:28
  And it loops everything back in. You can't watch this one without watching all
• 32:32
  of them, but you can watch this one without watching all of them.
• 32:36
  It's an amazing feat. I will say, I agree with you, but
• 32:40
  now this one, this one has also proved to me. If you can
• 32:45
  sequalify, sequalify any of these movies ever and justify it, this movie can.
• 32:51
  Yeah, this movie will always be able to justify it. Oh,
• 32:53
  yeah, totally, absolutely, absolutely, because it's designed to always be able
• 32:58
  to have an answer for you. Yeah, totally, And like that's what's
• 33:01
  so satisfying about it, Like it Saw for me in many ways is the
• 33:07
  complete opposite of Lost, because Lost only opens up questions and Saw only an
• 33:14
  answers. Yeah, it opens up new questions by answering them. But it's
• 33:19
  always answering the question you're asking. It's always like, totally, it's always
• 33:22
  considering the viewer. Yeah, it's always like and that's something a movie can
• 33:28
  do and sequels can do that shows can't, ye because shows are trying to
• 33:31
  like stay on the air and movies are always trying to justify them themselves.
• 33:37
  Yeah, totally. And the interesting thing about even the look of the movie,
• 33:42
  the look of the movie appears in we see John's perspective in the third
• 33:47
  one when he's getting his brain actually cut open and he's remembering Jill Tuck for
• 33:52
  the first time. It looks like this. It looks like a better version
• 33:55
  of those, but but it is like a way higher budget version of those
• 34:00
  and just a better filmmaking like of this type of thing, because it all
• 34:06
  feels like, oh man, this is all so like it's all the tech
• 34:10
  is so cheap now that you can just make anything look amazing. When Jigsaw,
• 34:19
  when John Kramer, sorry, when John Kramer, please, When John
• 34:23
  Kramer gets a h to a crappy website two thousand and five website, but
• 34:30
  there is but there's still for some reason, flat screen TVs. And when
• 34:36
  John sees plandemic for the first time, of course, and it's like he's
• 34:42
  like, oh, maybe the vaccine. I'm just against mandates. I'm he's
• 34:46
  just against mandates in this one, but then slowly realizes that ivermectin doesn't work,
• 34:52
  and then slowly realizes that he was the wold was pulled over his eyes,
• 34:55
  and he like, he's he regrets storming the Capitol. Dude, Dude,
• 35:00
  he totally does, but then gets steadfast in more right wing ideology,
• 35:04
  the classic right wing libertarianism told back into libertarians, and I was right when
• 35:14
  I was seventeen. It laurifies his libertarianism, though it's a very taught the
• 35:19
  libertarianism. Well, it's a very like leave me alone. Yeah, it's
• 35:23
  very like Bill Maherr like. But woke is the problem? Yeah, totally.
• 35:29
  But he he gets a call, uh from this lady. Uh and
• 35:36
  when when he types in his his password and banking information. Very yeah,
• 35:42
  still very especially modern nothing matters anymore. Yeah, we're all going to die
• 35:50
  in twenty one. He's he's again. He also might just be conservatives discovering
• 35:54
  postmodernism for the first time. Oh my god, he's breaking apart narratives.
• 36:00
  But it's the narratives that he wants to break apart, not the other people's
• 36:05
  narratives exactly. And that's what Peterson the postmodernism totally, and that's what makes
• 36:10
  like a meta modern movie about him and his perspective of discovering postmodernism. Amazing,
• 36:17
  amazing, Yeah, that's so insightful. He gets a call from Cecilia
• 36:22
  Jordan Peterson. Yeah, she's she's definitely a person and she's like, oh,
• 36:32
  we happen to have one new spot for you to come in to get
• 36:37
  this treatment. It's only we have percent success rate ivermectin. You know,
• 36:45
  did you listen to This American Life recently about Florida. No, there's this
• 36:51
  American Life about Florida that I listened to recently, and it had like different
• 36:57
  like episodes as it does. And one of the episodes was so interesting and
• 37:00
  so scary, but like it was basically it is what we're joking about now,
• 37:07
  but the movie was making me think about it. It was about this
• 37:14
  guy who was so passionately against like the mandates and the vaccines in Florida that
• 37:20
  he like pulled together a bunch of resources with people he found donors he like,
• 37:27
  and like found people like he was like having problems, like because he
• 37:30
  was like going to doctors and shit, and they were like, no,
• 37:35
  hyvermectin isn't a good treatment, Like this isn't like and like they were like
• 37:38
  all saying this shit, and he was like, I just didn't like believe
• 37:42
  in the medical establishment this and that, and like he found nurses and other
• 37:45
  like doctors and stuff that were like agreeing with him ideo ideologically and they were
• 37:51
  like able to make like a whole other like medical system network like that,
• 37:57
  Like like it's like a weird mutual aid like in the worst possible, the
• 38:01
  worst possible in the like most toxic way like around like complete misinformation. And
• 38:07
  like this movie made me think about that at first, because I was like,
• 38:10
  whoa, these people are like all these like alternative treatments and before we
• 38:15
  know in the movie that they're fooling him. But yeah, like that's the
• 38:20
  best part is that I think that it is commentary on that that there was
• 38:25
  some COVID commentary in this movie. Yeah for surely absolutely where like that medical
• 38:30
  trauma, that medical worry. Yeah, where like breathing the Yeah sorry,
• 38:35
  yeah totally. And we also, uh get that part where he goes to
• 38:40
  Mexico. He gets the taxi driver. What's his name? I think I
• 38:45
  think he's Diego Man. Do you go hearing him say, I kept wanting
• 38:52
  whatever someone I kept wanting him to say. I wanted him to say,
• 38:57
  but like I just wanted him to because like there was something so interesting about
• 39:00
  because when he's in America, he's on his like own turf or whatever,
• 39:05
  and like he gets to be this majestic guy, but like him being towards
• 39:07
  Mexican people who kind of like don't have the same cultural context, don't understand
• 39:13
  English in the same way, like him saying like the keys are like in
• 39:19
  a thing, and like then Amanda being like, you're gonna want to listen
• 39:22
  to this carefully because it's about English and the way the English language work.
• 39:25
  It was so perfect the commentary of like also what boomers do think of Mexicans
• 39:30
  and also how that's what I'm saying slightly racist, slightly that's how gen xers
• 39:37
  justify the racism to where it's like you better want to listen to like this,
• 39:43
  this is Corrello. Yeah, loud hello versus versus the just I don't
• 39:51
  care. I don't speak this language totally. I don't that kind of American.
• 39:57
  It's both of them are so American. If you don't catch on,
• 40:00
  that's your problem. Yeah, I'm giving you all the clues. Yeah,
• 40:04
  totally. He totally. And that's another thing of his, like it's showing,
• 40:07
  it's showing, not telling, his misunderstanding of other situations too. Yes,
• 40:16
  it's so narrow, but myopics, it's myopic saw. Yeah, And
• 40:22
  the thing thing is that's why he's always looking through a whole, looking through
• 40:27
  like he's only narrowly looking at these people's lives, even exhaust through his lens.
• 40:32
  And that's what makes him a good serial killer is that it is myopic
• 40:37
  for serial killers too. It's like, I don't have empathy. It's for
• 40:39
  me, Like why I don't have empathy? It's me totally. And that's
• 40:49
  why he takes the saw piece. Dude, He's always looking for the missing
• 40:52
  piece in him. And then he also is myopically looking at people like Carlos,
• 41:00
  the kid who's he sees himself in him, like fixing things, being
• 41:07
  an engineer, and gains respect for him, not through empathy, not through
• 41:10
  just general feeling about human to human, but he sees himself, Oh,
• 41:15
  I see this kid trying to fix a thing. I'm gonna help him fix
• 41:20
  this thing, and then I'm gonna have the respect. He fixes him well,
• 41:23
  and he also relates to him like very much like Tata. It's very
• 41:28
  Tata saw because Tata's also an engineer and like bonding over the idea of like
• 41:34
  fixing a thing. Boomer because it's like I show love in this way I
• 41:39
  fix things. I do a thing, I make a thing right, and
• 41:44
  like that's their version of making things, like now we make art right,
• 41:46
  and so like that's like the art about a guy like that is so interesting
• 41:51
  because it's showing a perspective and it's showing that that's the way that he bonds.
• 41:54
  And that's why the kid, even though the kid has like he doesn't
• 41:59
  speak English and doesn't have like a character in the movie, it's it's real
• 42:01
  because it's real to him and the movie is him. It's about him totally,
• 42:06
  one hundred percent, one hundred percent It Saw Excretion Saw. It's tweeting
• 42:15
  Saw. So that movie could have been tweeted, dude, I mean this
• 42:20
  movie could have been tweeted. It could have been a series of tweets and
• 42:22
  been like, Wow, that'd be great if they made that would be cool
• 42:24
  Saw movie. But I'm I'm a jen Alpha. I don't go see movies.
• 42:30
  I read tweets about it. No, Twitter is the new Facebook,
• 42:37
  dude, Like it's like a dumpster fire. That's just like it's making Facebook
• 42:42
  look cool. Ago Yeah kind of. Actually, man, it's kind of
• 42:45
  retro. So we we get this like nice Pallatio, like hidden away like
• 42:55
  amazing place where but to get there, we have to take a sketchy taxi
• 43:01
  and then get like fucking some guy security military people, yeah, who have
• 43:07
  their face covered like point guns and John Kramer, who are you? I'm
• 43:14
  I'm John Kramer. I'm only myself. This was also a very pointed moment
• 43:19
  of like, this is me, this movie is about me. Yeah,
• 43:27
  totally a boomer. Yeah, this would have been the one to call Jigsaw.
• 43:32
  Yeah, that's why I think the last one you tried to try to
• 43:37
  kiss the sister, but trying to actually kiss the sister. Yeah, totally
• 43:43
  and softmaking the last movie such a song. Yeah, it is such a
• 43:49
  saw move. And then yeah, and then we get to taking the joke
• 43:55
  where he was like because he gets he gets guns pointed at him, and
• 44:01
  sure Kramer is like a pretty badass dude, but also it seems like when
• 44:06
  he came in he was like, I'm sorry for the smell. I've shipped
• 44:09
  my pants because you have underwear, because it feels like whoa dude? This
• 44:15
  is like whoa dude? Because he would not have I would myself. I
• 44:20
  would have shipped myself if something like this happens. It's also interesting adding the
• 44:24
  type of existential moments that you don't see traditionally in a Saw movie. You
• 44:30
  don't see this kind of fear, like the Saw movies begin to and the
• 44:34
  sequels especially because to begin to have way less steaks about. You're not like
• 44:37
  you don't care to die. Yeah, you're not invested in the characters who
• 44:42
  are trapped or in Jigsaw. And then eventually you get invested in Juicy Lips
• 44:45
  and Jill Talk. But there's still like, there's still like three movies to
• 44:50
  have to justify their existence, and they do, but but it's to answer
• 44:57
  a lot of questions. Yeah, totally. And we meet Gabriella, who
• 45:04
  John Kramer finds to be like an Amanda type one where he's like, he's
• 45:10
  like, oh, she's trying to help me. There's also a Valentina in
• 45:14
  this, dude, there's a Valentina in this who is like a very severe
• 45:17
  looking woman. She's very attractive, but she's very like, I'm a point,
• 45:22
  I'm a gentle point. He later when they later when they like made
• 45:27
  her makeup look like she was just being throw fucked, was so weird,
• 45:31
  Like, I know she was a I guess she's a sex worker in the
• 45:36
  movie. Oh, Okay, okay, because the guy is like, she
• 45:38
  asks for money after with that guy. Oh yeah, yeah, that's right,
• 45:43
  that's right. And he's like, what I didn't think I have to
• 45:45
  pay? Yeah, totally entitled to say he doesn't want to pay for olyfans.
• 45:49
  But what's amazing about it about that scene is that, like about all
• 45:54
  the scenes because okay, let me put it, this makeup was amazing,
• 45:58
  though. The throw fucking makeup was amazing because it looked very much like it
• 46:01
  looked very deliberately. Absolutely, he was hinting at it, trying the tooth
• 46:05
  dude with It's like, we comment on this in this way now, So
• 46:10
  Cecilia, Jordan, Peterson, Gabriella, Diego, Matteo, and Valentina.
• 46:16
  Those are great names. Those are all great names. And Parker spears.
• 46:21
  We have all this to set up that John is here and we have these
• 46:25
  actors playing the roles of nurses, the roles of and it also seems to
• 46:31
  give him the idea that like, oh, I can do this with other
• 46:35
  people in the rest of the lore of this movie too. Can I also
• 46:38
  just say having the actors be like different people and then showing them in one
• 46:45
  way and like kind of also that soft focus happening when he's being introduced to
• 46:50
  them, and these like kind of like or like like they kind of like
• 46:53
  push in a little bit to the character. There's something so like there's like
• 46:58
  there's a thing of the focus from his perspective because he's getting drugged that and
• 47:05
  also it serves to kind of be like there's something weird and fake about this,
• 47:09
  like this is too good to be true. I've experienced reality like this,
• 47:14
  where like someone's pulling the wool over my eyes and like you know something
• 47:19
  is happening. You know something's happening, but you don't know what, and
• 47:21
  it's happening so fast. It shows how it can happen, that you can
• 47:24
  be fooled and tricked, and like it's the movie doing it to you structurally
• 47:29
  by like making it look like a dream, making it dolly in like making
• 47:34
  these people smile and react weirdly, because people do react weirdly when they're tricking
• 47:38
  you and when they're conning you and lying, and like that was scary.
• 47:43
  That was also like there was a horror in that the fear was very much
• 47:49
  based in like like Yargos Lanthemo's style fear of like things being implied, and
• 47:59
  that's what this movie did the bet because so much of Saw is this is
• 48:02
  also back to the Twin Peaks season three comparison. So much of the rest
• 48:09
  of the Saw movies is given to you in this way of like, oh,
• 48:15
  like it's yeah, this is happening. It's very much happening, and
• 48:19
  the structure of the movies is what's tricking you. So it's like timelines are
• 48:22
  different. People aren't who they say they are. Uh. And it gets
• 48:27
  revealed a pig mask is actually this person and you thought it was Jigsaw in
• 48:31
  that movie, but you were like, oh, but he isn't he sick
• 48:35
  and cancerous? Oh? But it was actually a man it was, Yeah,
• 48:38
  And then it was the other pig mask who was uh doctor Gordon and
• 48:43
  two other pig mask people that we never see, and it's like, oh,
• 48:46
  okay, it's it's doing that. But perspectively from a shot from John
• 48:52
  Kramer's perspective, it's like, oh, like, this is what's happening to
• 48:57
  him, and this is how he's seeing the world. Uh, and uh,
• 49:02
  it's implication that's making it scary that these people are are tricking you.
• 49:09
  But they're acting like a normal thing. It's great. It's super super nice,
• 49:15
  uh and nicely shot. So we have all these characters appear. John
• 49:20
  wakes up with a bandage on his head having given the money half of the
• 49:23
  money, like the like when they're like when they're cutting his brain open and
• 49:28
  it's like a video and he's looking at the brain surgery, but they're they're
• 49:30
  the coffin. They totally did Man on the Moon, ye like not buy
• 49:44
  twenty one check. There's some chet pulling chicken out of Jim Carrey. Chicken
• 49:52
  out of joke. That scene where Jim Carrey sees the chicken tries the tooth
• 49:59
  is kind of like his reaction man. Like the era of Jim Carrey where
• 50:02
  he was trying to be a serious actor and trying to prove to everyone that
• 50:06
  he was a serious actor. There was something so proving to everybody that he
• 50:09
  was mentally ill, but there was something so beautifully manic about it. Yeah,
• 50:13
  yeah, because he's yeah, he's kind of an abusive guy, but
• 50:16
  like, like it made for some really incredible performances that I'm glad we have.
• 50:22
  I'm glad we have Man in the Mood totally totally and yeah, so
• 50:28
  post surgery, he's in abuse. He's where am I? Yeah? And
• 50:34
  and you in a safe location. Peterson comes in and she's like, I've
• 50:39
  taken all your money and I'm going to leave you to die. It's a
• 50:44
  victionless crime. You're already dying. Yeah, totally, I'm taking your life
• 50:49
  savings. Well, I mean John Kramer is a lot more than that.
• 50:52
  I mean, yeah, dude, he's a real estate guy. Oh man,
• 50:57
  when when is somebody when somebody asks him what he does and he's like,
• 51:00
  I'm an engineer and a couple of years back, I started investing in
• 51:04
  properties, and I've done quite well for myself. That flip house is generally
• 51:08
  what was What was the job that he did? Too? He was like
• 51:12
  a civil engineer, and what do you do? I'm an architect? Oh,
• 51:17
  I'm an architect. You designed any buildings in New York? Have you
• 51:22
  seen the no addition to the Gogga Hunt? You did that? Yep?
• 51:27
  Yeah, it didn't take very long. Anither there was something else? Yeah,
• 51:30
  there was something else. There's something else. Did he say philanthropy?
• 51:34
  He didn't say philanthropy. It was like when the other man came, they
• 51:37
  must have founded it. So then he realizes that how does he realize again
• 51:45
  that that it's not it's not true. Dun, dun, dun. They
• 51:51
  pulled it off with with without that music. But he realizes he sees something,
• 51:58
  something happens. Oh, oh, so he's taken to the this is
• 52:01
  great. I love this. So he's taken away in a safe place in
• 52:06
  a hotel outside of in Mexico City. And then at least he's sprung for
• 52:10
  some nice locations. He tracks He tracked down their location to say thank you
• 52:17
  to Gabrielle. Oh, the same tequila that they give him before, or
• 52:22
  they want to give him, Well, he sees the tequila. He wants
• 52:27
  to give them the tequila. He tracks them down based on the distance of
• 52:30
  the poles on the mountains where Sisto cells and he super genius saw and then
• 52:37
  goes there with a taxi and realizes that like this place is now empty,
• 52:43
  the like a place where they did the surgery is now empty. They've left
• 52:47
  the DVDs. The slow realization that allowing the audience to also slowly realize that
• 52:53
  with him and feel the devastation of the humanity of like somebody conning you for
• 53:00
  everything, you're worth and you have cancer is like, and you're just like
• 53:05
  don't. In your head you're like, oh my god, dude, I
• 53:09
  I want to kill them. I want to fucking kill them. Like and
• 53:13
  so like it does the revenge porn in a way that it's like dun dun
• 53:17
  dun dund It's like it makes this one's the most dun dun dum. It's
• 53:23
  less d Yeah, it's more yeah, totally. Well, like, I
• 53:30
  mean, there there is also this aspect. I mean, we talked about
• 53:32
  The Maniac and Henry Portrait of a serial Killer and a bunch of those types
• 53:37
  of movies. What's neat about this one too is that I want to and
• 53:42
  Terminator to as well Psycho too, which is making the empathy of this person
• 53:50
  the forefront and making people trying to take advantage of you the villains. I
• 53:58
  don't know if you've seen Psycho two. Have you seen Psycho two? That
• 54:00
  said twenty two years later, twenty two years after the original movie too,
• 54:05
  and he's been in in uh what's his name? Psycho has been in a
• 54:10
  facilitation and there are people trying to get revenge on him, and they start
• 54:17
  gaslighting him to make him go crazy again, and throughout the entire movie,
• 54:22
  he's just trying to dude, it's dude, it really no, it's postmodern
• 54:30
  but but it's but he is like trying to live his life in a normal
• 54:37
  way. And because Anthony Perkins is so good at playing both that character and
• 54:42
  a guy who's like, ah, well, I'm sorry, you know,
• 54:45
  like you you just you feel yeah, you feel bad for him, and
• 54:51
  and he like tries to He gets a job at a diner and like,
• 54:55
  you know, tries to be like a human being again. And this girl
• 55:00
  who's like way younger than him, played by At Tilly, like the sister
• 55:06
  of Jennifer Tilly. What's her name again? I forget, but her daughter
• 55:12
  is the niece of one of the dead people in the first one, and
• 55:15
  her mom is the sister. And she's like like, yeah, they're trying
• 55:21
  to gaslight him into killing again, and they do successfully, and and you
• 55:27
  have more of a because the framing is turned from the victim to the killer.
• 55:32
  You have his perspective, so it's like, no, he's trying,
• 55:37
  you know, and like this one is very much no, he's trying,
• 55:40
  even though he forced doctor Gord to cut his one off and you know,
• 55:45
  hired fucking Lee whateel to be like help some help me. Oh man.
• 55:55
  So yeah, then he goes to get his revenge. He realizes everything.
• 56:00
  He finds fucking Diego the taxi driver. This first like kill like hatching him
• 56:07
  from the like the like that office, the side office. Wait, he
• 56:12
  pick masks him, right, he pig masks him, takes him to uh
• 56:16
  the yeah, the high office in the factory, and attaches two pipe bombs
• 56:22
  into his skin in the meat and then and then duct tapes. This is
• 56:28
  such a great uh, like trapp scalpels to him to his hands. Uh,
• 56:40
  and he has to cut out all the pieces of the like jelly meat.
• 56:46
  This also felt like last Blood and like making traps felt like last blood.
• 56:52
  Also by the fact that he goes to Mexico and Mexicans. But it's
• 56:57
  interesting because like it's like he's building the wall the end of the movie totally
• 57:00
  dude, Like it feels very conservative, like, but it feels like a
• 57:04
  commentary on it because it's like some privileged fucking boom. Yeah, it doesn't.
• 57:07
  It doesn't feel like like that's the complete that's the opposite feeling I got
• 57:13
  from from What's it called Last Blood, which was just like, oh god,
• 57:19
  dude, you're just like Jesus, this is what you think. Yeah,
• 57:23
  and it's yeah, but this movie still is like still views through the
• 57:28
  lens of that kind of viciousness. Though oh yeah, like it's it's taking,
• 57:31
  it's doing something with it. It's commentary, but because it's not,
• 57:36
  because it's much more in the realm of like this is happening rather than this
• 57:39
  is the perspective of Rambo, which is what the first one is and the
• 57:44
  fourth one is. That's why it justifies the kind of brutality of him in
• 57:51
  the fourth one and the sympathy we gain from him in the first one,
• 57:53
  and then the rest are just the rest are are people want of what they
• 58:00
  want Rambo to be, which is the audience wanting Rambo to be like just
• 58:06
  a murderer, like with no sense of real morality. And this one was
• 58:13
  great because it does show that he in the beginning that he does very much
• 58:17
  follow his own rules as well, Like if a guy goes and gets out
• 58:23
  of a trap, he will save them and he will give them the medical
• 58:27
  attention that he needs. This guy like gets out of the trap. Yeah,
• 58:30
  he like cuts the things off and like him quickly sc scurrying John was
• 58:37
  kind of a basic like just like okay, because like it's like all of
• 58:39
  his movements are very shot realistic. Also, the widest shots saw, like
• 58:45
  seeing Saw do movements and seeing traps and wide seeing things play out and wide
• 58:52
  gave it so much more of a of a scale and a depth yeah,
• 58:55
  because you're like, oh, these are real people at a real place.
• 58:59
  It's not just like you know the thing that you're getting, which in the
• 59:06
  two thousands, really a lot of stuff was shot in close ups in the
• 59:14
  two thousands simply because of what they thought was budget or what they thought,
• 59:19
  oh no, this looks too budget. The fear was real because you didn't
• 59:23
  want to show the seams right. But the interesting thing about showing the seams
• 59:30
  of just a cool place is that you get a lot of scale. But
• 59:35
  the worry was if we show scale, they audiences might not buy it,
• 59:39
  right, And you can't necessarily light for that, But you can light for
• 59:43
  a close up because it's smaller, right. But with digital cameras, you
• 59:47
  can just shoot fucking stick a light on and like, okay, well this
• 59:51
  is what it looks like like like we shot in that factory. It just
• 59:54
  looked like that, you know what I mean. And it's like, okay,
• 59:57
  well we don't have we don't have any so we got to put it
• 1:00:00
  under this light that exists, right. So it's nice to see that kind
• 1:00:06
  of stuff because it does also justify the rest of them feeling like they have
• 1:00:09
  more scale and yeah, showing that, oh no, like I have to
• 1:00:16
  get this person to a hospital. The weird mythologizing of himself and his own
• 1:00:22
  code is interesting. And then he goes on to seemingly call Amanda to get
• 1:00:30
  the rest of these people because he's old and has cancer totally and he can
• 1:00:35
  trap this person in a car. Yeah, yeah, and he needs help
• 1:00:38
  with getting the other ones. So he flies Amanda over with his millions of
• 1:00:43
  dollars, flies Billy the puppet over, and also he gets and you're right,
• 1:00:50
  he does have money, because this is about the principle. It shows
• 1:00:52
  how much he spent on it, and it's like five hundred thousand dollars and
• 1:00:57
  it's like, I guess it's not that much for him, and then he
• 1:00:59
  also, you know, it's two hundred and fifty thousand dollars, is it.
• 1:01:01
  Yeah, it's too too it's a half two payments of two hundred and
• 1:01:06
  fifty thousand dollars because you see the the like letters and it's it's the people
• 1:01:10
  that they stole them from in bunches, and it's two hundred and fifty grand
• 1:01:15
  for each person. Yes, but she's made a lot of money, dude,
• 1:01:20
  thirty four people. Yeah, dude, that's crazy. They were like
• 1:01:23
  eight years, eight years. Quite a scam and quite surprising that no one's
• 1:01:29
  come after her. This is pre nine to eleven, dude. I mean
• 1:01:31
  a lot of inheritances were lost. So what ends up happening is you can
• 1:01:37
  also see the kinds of lives, uh Diego, Gabriella Matteo and Matteo is
• 1:01:45
  my invalid and Valentine. Matteo is my favorite character in this one. Absolutely.
• 1:01:51
  He was the Amanda for me. He was the and and Hoffman turned
• 1:01:57
  into the Eric Matthews for me. Well, you want to set it up?
• 1:02:00
  Where where are we are we in the capture? They're capturing them.
• 1:02:02
  Amanda has now taken over the capturing duties, which is we see Matteo working
• 1:02:09
  at not a hospital, which is what they said he did, but an
• 1:02:14
  orderly I think at a pound. I think he's a dog. Yeah,
• 1:02:19
  so he's stealing supplies for uh Patterson. Uh, And Gabriella comes to get
• 1:02:30
  drugs from him, yeah, because she's she's addicted to some sort of opiate
• 1:02:35
  or something. And then Valentina is at a bar and she's hustling, uh
• 1:02:40
  yeah, yeah, probably yeah totally and maybe not addicted though, uh yeah,
• 1:02:46
  and she's she's she's she's a sex worker and she's trying to get a
• 1:02:52
  John and and then like, uh yeah, he like is like I don't
• 1:02:59
  want to. He gets beat up and there's a very like intentional beating up
• 1:03:04
  of this guy where it's like there's the kind of like fuck you view.
• 1:03:07
  Yeah, totally, there's an Amanda, I'm doing this out of my personal
• 1:03:12
  thing to get him. It shows it laurifies that in Amanda, she has
• 1:03:19
  her own code within all of this she does. She does and yeah,
• 1:03:25
  so they all get kidnapped and they all get put into they all get pig
• 1:03:30
  masked, and they all get put into this factory where John shot our music
• 1:03:36
  video totally where John is now looking down at them, and he set up
• 1:03:42
  all the traps and there was nice moments of them having conversations Amanda, and
• 1:03:49
  throughout the movie of John and her having conversations being like you can do this,
• 1:03:53
  Amanda in a way that was like snippets of it you would see in
• 1:03:59
  the past that was always felt a little bit like okay, you wrote that
• 1:04:02
  in but in this one it's very much like awesome you. They really do
• 1:04:08
  have moments of her being cult like devotion to him and him being like you
• 1:04:13
  are my disciple. Yeah for sure. And like I think the movie also
• 1:04:19
  through like showing John first on his own and kind of making these realizations,
• 1:04:28
  he's more steadfast in his cult leader status because he's like I'm I'm right,
• 1:04:32
  I know now, I know, I'm right. Totally totally also thought that
• 1:04:38
  totally it's interesting how like there is like such a like a mentality. Yeah,
• 1:04:43
  like and it's it's really like the lens on the mentality. It's really
• 1:04:47
  cool in a in a very much like this is how boomers think this is
• 1:04:54
  or like there's a through line between every boomer that that thinks in this way
• 1:04:59
  of the man little uh part yeah, yeah and white and like yeah,
• 1:05:03
  privilege or whatever. Yeah, there is a there is a full on privilege
• 1:05:06
  to him. There I think that this movie is actually really leading into the
• 1:05:11
  the what we've been saying all along, the class analysis of Jigsaw. Yeah,
• 1:05:15
  like being got like a landowner, being like a guy with so many
• 1:05:18
  resources, a guy was so influential in his community. Yeah, losing everything,
• 1:05:24
  losing everything to a new generation of queer ears and blacks. Yeah,
• 1:05:29
  he doesn't want to. I mean, he doesn't want to say that.
• 1:05:31
  He doesn't want to. He doesn't because because there he's like, well,
• 1:05:35
  we they didn't come up with my with all the troubles I had. Yeah,
• 1:05:41
  totally. Now we get to Valentina, who got I think what the
• 1:05:46
  trap that affected me most in any of the traps, which is burrowing a
• 1:05:51
  thing into your bone marrow to uh like set you free by cutting off your
• 1:05:58
  leg or your head is gonna get cut off, Okay. I was like,
• 1:06:01
  all right, like this honestly, like someone's gonna die, somebody,
• 1:06:05
  Like somebody could have come out and be like she did it. She fucking
• 1:06:09
  did it, like she didn't want to live enough. It's like, are
• 1:06:12
  you kidding, dude? Yeah, dude, she cut her own leg off
• 1:06:15
  way earlier than than Gordon did cut his foot off. She cut her own
• 1:06:19
  leg off. She was able to get the bone mare, she was able
• 1:06:21
  to do all everything you asked for, just not enough of it in time.
• 1:06:26
  That's the thing. And that's where but you gave them three minutes each.
• 1:06:30
  And it shows the unfairness of the trap. That's the thing. It
• 1:06:33
  shows the inherent unfairness, and it's the inherent unfairness of life. Oh well,
• 1:06:41
  yeah, totally. That's him from his perspective, the inherent unfairness of
• 1:06:45
  tipping the scales. He talked about the scales, he talked, he talked
• 1:06:47
  with the thumbs on the scales and he but but you know what, he
• 1:06:51
  justifies it in the way that like you did it to me, You tip
• 1:06:56
  the scales for exactly in your direction to me. So I'm doing that to
• 1:07:00
  you, which is fair like fair in the sense that like I I understand.
• 1:07:05
  Yeah, He's also like, I'm not surviving this, yeah, totally,
• 1:07:10
  I'm not surviving my trap. Yeah, I'm not surviving my trap.
• 1:07:14
  And then so Valentina gets her head cut off with like this wire that's like
• 1:07:20
  so cutty. Yeah, I know these wires they're scary. They have you
• 1:07:26
  ever like slightly touched one before it like it feels like it's cutting you from
• 1:07:30
  multiple different angles, just because like that was the marrow stuff. Really was
• 1:07:36
  like that. I was like gonna throw up. I was literally gonna throw
• 1:07:42
  up. And the I was like I couldn't know that awful sounds for Alex
• 1:07:48
  there is. That's what I was. There were so many people like in
• 1:07:53
  the theater and like nobody was laughing or reacting or like I was just like
• 1:07:58
  we were people have it, and I kept shushing me. I'm like I
• 1:08:01
  can't not react to like I'm like, like you know what I mean,
• 1:08:04
  like I have to like yell when I see a gross, hilarious thing.
• 1:08:09
  But it was, and it were I think we were almost the only people
• 1:08:14
  laughing. It was funny, funny. It was meant to be mean,
• 1:08:20
  but it was also very funny. Water Away it was. It was.
• 1:08:25
  It was funny in the way like Triglos sadness is funny, or like as
• 1:08:29
  Afraid is funny. Yeah, Gabriella, It's like, yeah, totally totally.
• 1:08:35
  They Amanda also seems to have a very great uh. John also has
• 1:08:40
  a nice respect for Amanda, Yeah, which is really nice to see in
• 1:08:45
  the movie. And then Matteo is next Your Next and Matteo has to cut
• 1:08:55
  his own skull open and then pick out the brain matter. Do you like
• 1:08:59
  did you like them discussing who would be next? Like being like, oh,
• 1:09:02
  I think you know that kind of like it's like it was interesting because
• 1:09:08
  like they're like they show how by the seat of its pants it is.
• 1:09:11
  Yeah, that's what the best part, that's what that's what I liked about
• 1:09:14
  it, Like it still makes no sense. But even at the end where
• 1:09:17
  he's like, well, wait, according to plan, not exactly how we
• 1:09:21
  planted it, but yeah, it's kind of like, alright, that's it
• 1:09:25
  worked out. That's how m's have been all the way. Dude, It's
• 1:09:28
  like, well it worked out for me totally. I guess I've lived a
• 1:09:32
  good life. I guess I've lived a good life. Fuck the rest of
• 1:09:38
  you. But also have children. You'll know the beauty of children. Your
• 1:09:43
  life will be empty if you don't. Yeah, it's like we're dying.
• 1:09:45
  Make your choice, live, we dying for your child. Make your choice.
• 1:09:49
  Uh Yeah. Potato has to pick the rain matter out of his skull
• 1:09:55
  so that he can also tip the scales for his balance. That was gross
• 1:10:00
  and it was like it was awful hilarious but also awful, like just like
• 1:10:04
  the shitty camera set up above him, he has like cut his own head
• 1:10:09
  with and he's just like and like the fact that they all it was also
• 1:10:14
  really intentional. I think that the fact that all the traps mirrored his brain
• 1:10:18
  no no, no, well mirrored like things that have that are happening to
• 1:10:21
  him. But I think it was interesting that all the traps, actually all
• 1:10:26
  of the people actually tried very hard to survive their traps. I loved that
• 1:10:30
  it was just like the tail scales were really tipped against them. Well,
• 1:10:35
  like I mean in the same way that the scales are tipped against John.
• 1:10:39
  Right, he has to get his brain cut open, he has to get
• 1:10:42
  radiation, he has to get bone marrow for new white blood cells to be
• 1:10:45
  able to fight off infection he had. He's trying to with his illness,
• 1:10:50
  trying the tooth with his illness. So Gabriella is obviously the brain matter doesn't
• 1:10:57
  work and he gets his Mayan mad face burnt. He gets crispy, dude.
• 1:11:02
  Yeah, he gets so crispy in the same way that that lady gets
• 1:11:06
  crispy and the dick. The dick like ed it's just suddenly crispy. Also
• 1:11:14
  the way that that in part one that the guy who like burns himself on
• 1:11:20
  the like on the glass barefoot glass trap with the second one second one.
• 1:11:28
  Yeah, and then we get Ranata's trap where she has to grate irradiate herself,
• 1:11:36
  but smash her leg. He said, Branata, Oh is her real
• 1:11:42
  name, Gabriella, Sorry, Gabriella has to smash her foot. And then
• 1:11:45
  what's nice about Cecilia christ Peterson is that she's also trying to tell everybody how
• 1:11:59
  to survive, but also knowing that she's gonna die, and also knowing that
• 1:12:04
  Parker Spears, the guy who was the throat cancer guy. Oh, we
• 1:12:10
  didn't say he was a thy word cancer guy. And he was like I've
• 1:12:13
  been solved, I'm fine, and he's there to trick John's a red Herrings
• 1:12:17
  code. Not a Red Herrings code. It's it's called something else. It's
• 1:12:21
  not a mark because the switch. Yeah, well he's another one, like
• 1:12:30
  like the dad from from Tulsa King. He's like he's a liar that pretends
• 1:12:38
  that this. Yeah, for the mark to be like uh, like believable,
• 1:12:45
  it needs to have like, oh, I'm this is such a great
• 1:12:48
  operation and nothing's wrong with me. Now he comes in and he's knocking on
• 1:12:57
  on the door and he's like, I'm here to pick up my money.
• 1:13:01
  He's pretending like he's like, you fucked me over. I still have cancer.
• 1:13:05
  Yeah, totally. And then but Cecilia is still trying to pretend that
• 1:13:12
  uh sorry. Parker Spears, the guy who's pretending that he has cancer and
• 1:13:16
  trying to get his money back, gets also taken in pig masked by Amanda.
• 1:13:21
  Amanda, and then he he has some of the best most realistic reactions
• 1:13:30
  of any of the SAW people to be like, oh, this is what
• 1:13:32
  you're doing. I love I loved I loved him. He's like this is
• 1:13:38
  fucked up. Yeah yeah, and it's like this this is how you get
• 1:13:42
  yourn. He's also he also has that reaction against Peterson as later as well.
• 1:13:47
  He's like whoa dude, Like you're gonna kill a kid? What are
• 1:13:51
  you doing? Yeah? He does. He's like more much more normal than
• 1:13:55
  Peterson in terms of having like a reaction and also sets up greatly she'll fuck
• 1:14:01
  you over to dude, oh yeah, because that red Herrings code Jigsaw and
• 1:14:06
  Amanda being like she's not trustworthy at all, like them acknowledging also what what
• 1:14:13
  psychos and and psycho killers do very dexter. This is also also very dexter,
• 1:14:17
  but also in real life, how quickly a person who's who you don't
• 1:14:26
  know, who's who doesn't have empathy can like read human emotion really easily,
• 1:14:31
  just on a level that's like very one dimensional, and can like imitate that
• 1:14:38
  and bring you into that so quickly because they can be very do that.
• 1:14:42
  I'm very nice. Well the way she lies too, She's like, my
• 1:14:45
  father's really good at this. I'm not I'm a liar, but my father's
• 1:14:48
  not a liar. Like it's such a liar thing to say I can have
• 1:14:53
  him here next day tomorrow, like just like he can cry trying anything,
• 1:14:57
  but you can tell it's a lie to write a that's mama totally totally Like
• 1:15:02
  I say, we Mama is not good at lying, but like she's just
• 1:15:06
  so brazen with her lies that it feels like you're like sometimes you want to
• 1:15:13
  believe it's you will allow yourself to one hundred percent so, but once that
• 1:15:19
  mask veil is revealed, you can't bring it back. You can't lie again.
• 1:15:25
  You know it all feels very overt. Well that's why when she's doing
• 1:15:30
  it the lie in the soft focus, it feels real. But later when
• 1:15:34
  it's different and it's like more dark and brown and in the dungeon. Yeah,
• 1:15:41
  and then uh yeah, so we get we get all the deaths.
• 1:15:46
  What's her name? Gabriella survives hers, which was obvious she was gonna obviously,
• 1:15:54
  yeah, and Cecilia. Oh. What ends up happening is they they
• 1:16:03
  trap Parker Spears and then they let him go because they're like Blue Amanda and
• 1:16:10
  Jigsaw John Kramer think they can include him in the sort of the plan.
• 1:16:15
  Maybe this guy's a good guy. Yeah he's fucked over. Yeah, no
• 1:16:18
  guns, no guns, guns, the only rule is no guns. And
• 1:16:23
  then uh he breaks funny. Sorry, sorry, it's funny though, because
• 1:16:28
  we also get a hint of like this when he says the only rule to
• 1:16:30
  him. Amanda also says they kind of talk about the rules in a way
• 1:16:34
  it's like, dude, we don't know, you mean these rules in a
• 1:16:38
  magical way. We don't know like that we're supposed to follow these rules in
• 1:16:42
  a magical way, and like nobody ever takes the rules seriously and that's the
• 1:16:46
  point and the problem, but we don't know we're supposed to, you know
• 1:16:49
  what I mean, like, and we don't know that it's like set up
• 1:16:53
  in this way that's like in arid Riddler kind of yeah, where it's like
• 1:16:58
  The Riddler. Yeah, it's it's in the same actually in the same sort
• 1:17:01
  of ge Jordan Peterson way of like talking about where where there's always a vagueness
• 1:17:09
  to what he's saying and a coupling of things that don't think you can couple
• 1:17:15
  so that he it's always vague in a way that he can pull back and
• 1:17:18
  say, well, that's not what I meant. It's not what I meant.
• 1:17:21
  You're not listening to me. Saw is exactly like yeah, totally totally,
• 1:17:27
  Oh my god, that's so funny, sob like like horn on the
• 1:17:32
  cob. And then so they go down to save uh Gabriella to take her
• 1:17:41
  to a hospital, and then Spears comes down with a gun and then all
• 1:17:45
  of a sudden, the first twist of the movie is that Spears has actually
• 1:17:48
  been working with with all of them, or not with all of them,
• 1:17:54
  Celia Peterson and because they're soon they're leaving the country soon or whatever, they've
• 1:18:03
  done all the damage the damage they can. Yeah, so they've been found
• 1:18:08
  out by too many people. They what they do is they hear outside Carlos,
• 1:18:13
  the kid that has earned the respect of John Kramer and taught him one
• 1:18:18
  single word in Spanish that happens to be very important coming up. Pull,
• 1:18:25
  don't pull, and uh, they take him. They trap them in Man
• 1:18:31
  a kid too. That was like, I was like, damn. Including
• 1:18:35
  kids in Saw is really interesting because well, we did have in the first
• 1:18:40
  movie. We had Diana, we had the kid in the third one that
• 1:18:46
  was saved by Hoffman, so you can get out of get out of jail
• 1:18:49
  free card with that. And we had the kid. We had Danielle you
• 1:18:56
  fucking bitch, fucking kill Yeah, but we but they all SAgs and they
• 1:19:00
  were all safe and there were never any risk. Well, there was danger
• 1:19:04
  to Daniel for sure. In part two there was, Yeah, totally,
• 1:19:09
  there was to Daniel. Yeah, because there were other unhinged people they could
• 1:19:13
  have done something to Daniel. But that was Amanda was pulling a lot of
• 1:19:17
  the strings for that one. She was setting up a lot of those traps
• 1:19:20
  with Hoffman, and they're unhinged more than than well, not more, but
• 1:19:27
  I mean, yeah, it's interesting how like the next movie is correcting the
• 1:19:31
  mistakes of the writing of the last one. Is kind of like part of
• 1:19:35
  the Lord, totally, totally. That also functions in in Twin Peaks season
• 1:19:41
  three, which is correcting the bad season two by injecting a lot of season
• 1:19:45
  two in a good in a lynchway in season three. But yeah, that's
• 1:19:50
  the first twist. I didn't work on this. Yeah, well he's not
• 1:19:54
  a part of me. He did, he did. He respects it.
• 1:19:57
  I respect this, but hey, he set up they're putting two chains on
• 1:20:03
  the neck of Jigsaw. Young niggas should inspect, should be a shame in
• 1:20:14
  it. Doug Kramer and the kids, John Kramer, John Kramer and Carlos,
• 1:20:30
  And what ends up happening is they get pulled down and they get blood.
• 1:20:39
  They get pulled down, they're strapped onto like a pull like kind of
• 1:20:45
  yeah, where we're like one if you pull the lever, it tilts one
• 1:20:49
  way, tilts the like blood. Oh my god, what did she say?
• 1:20:54
  Blood? Blood boarding? Blood boarding? Oh my god, that was
• 1:20:58
  so funny. And also like comments saying blood boarding, and then it's kind
• 1:21:03
  of amazing and then like Bush era Republicans, him just being like it was
• 1:21:12
  hilarious, hilarious, it lasted for so long, and like the color of
• 1:21:15
  how it looked was really amazing to it, like the CG and everything was
• 1:21:18
  like amazing. And then like he's so he says to the kid, don't
• 1:21:24
  pull the one word he learned in Spanish, and then the kid pulls it
• 1:21:28
  because he feels bad for John Crager and himself, and then John Cramer pulls
• 1:21:35
  back to him. But it allows John Graver to survive. And he's like,
• 1:21:41
  you're a good boy. What does he say? You're a warrior,
• 1:21:44
  You're a warrior, a beast, You're a warrior totally because he fetishizes him.
• 1:21:48
  Dude, it's slight. It's the way that that boomers have White boomers
• 1:21:54
  have respect for non white people. It's like, you're a warrior. You've
• 1:21:59
  got that gene in you. It's like authoring them. You know, you're
• 1:22:06
  not civilized, but your war and like it also will say eugenic stuff in
• 1:22:12
  like in like positive racist ways, Like they're really good at sports, but
• 1:22:17
  they get hard conditions. I mean there's there's a lot of eugenics and they're
• 1:22:26
  good at running oh yeah, totally good at running. They're so good at
• 1:22:30
  running. What jigsaw is things like that. That's the only kind of braid
• 1:22:39
  that can think of booby traps as punishments for people who pissed you off that
• 1:22:43
  day. It's totally people who pissed you off that day. Yeah, So
• 1:22:48
  things happen, and then the money is upstairs, and so they go the
• 1:22:56
  Luca Guga, Peterson and her boyfriend Parker go upstairs, and then he grabs
• 1:23:05
  the money. He grabs the money and as he pulls by, a ten
• 1:23:14
  minute clock starts coming, a ten minute clock starts winding down, and the
• 1:23:18
  door closes. And this was amazing, Like this was this was there's like
• 1:23:25
  a poison games but but just just like and this is also when John Kramer
• 1:23:31
  just puts the like Gurney leveled and gets out of his own draps so easily
• 1:23:40
  and like and then and then it's like, well it works not like we
• 1:23:45
  thought, but we're not gonna explain it. And when the music comes in,
• 1:23:50
  it's so earned of do do do do do? Because I was like,
• 1:23:56
  like I was literally like I wanted I wanted to be like way more.
• 1:24:01
  I wanted to Vince McMahon meme, Oh yeah, but nobody else was.
• 1:24:06
  Nobody else was doing that, so I felt so stupid. But and
• 1:24:10
  I kept trusting me, and I was like, no, let me enjoy
• 1:24:12
  it, dude, d like and it was like perfect, dude. I
• 1:24:18
  Like, I was like, oh my god, Like the score in the
• 1:24:25
  rest of it justified the end use of the score and yeah, and I
• 1:24:30
  was when when it came to like, it was just like so heavy and
• 1:24:36
  so big, like the scale was allowed to be so big, and it
• 1:24:42
  earned the big ending and it earned the theme in a in a way that
• 1:24:46
  like it's like commenting again in a matter modern way of like, yes,
• 1:24:53
  we know these are the best things of this movie, and we're acknowledging that
• 1:24:56
  these are the best things of this movie. We're gonna tell you why,
• 1:25:00
  yeah, and we can we can also tell you we're also going to do
• 1:25:02
  different new things that are in the this yeah, like killing Mexican people.
• 1:25:09
  And then at the end having the reason I think this should be the ending
• 1:25:13
  is because I also think that there is a happy ending. There's a sad
• 1:25:21
  ending at the beginning and the happy ending at the end. That because we
• 1:25:28
  see juicy lips but not just that we exit the building and it's morning and
• 1:25:32
  we've we've all survived these traps. But it's like did we Yeah, yeah,
• 1:25:38
  because it was like he was the main character, so it's like,
• 1:25:41
  yeah, he did. That's what this movie, because the movies were about.
• 1:25:45
  And it's like, oh, awesome, we got a happy ending finally,
• 1:25:47
  as opposed to none of the none of the endings have been happy.
• 1:25:50
  Ever. Yeah, it's always happy in kind of like a very bleak way.
• 1:25:56
  No, but it's it's like, you're right for us because we know
• 1:26:00
  that he's a murderer, but it's happy for him. He got what he
• 1:26:02
  wanted. But it's funny because he never thinks and they're like yoging election to
• 1:26:06
  me on morals. They keeps saying things like that, and it's like it's
• 1:26:11
  like, I mean, I get why he thinks he can, you know
• 1:26:15
  what I mean, It makes sense why he thinks he can. But everyone's
• 1:26:17
  a piece of shit having and that's what you were saying, having everyone be
• 1:26:21
  the piece of shit and then you just have to side with someone, Yeah
• 1:26:25
  you do. It's kind of amazing, Yeah, totally, And it's like
• 1:26:28
  it's also it also justifies everybody and like everybody else is a piece of shit
• 1:26:33
  in a way that's like realistic, normal need money. I live in fucking
• 1:26:39
  probably in shitty places in Mexico. But like from his perspective, it's like,
• 1:26:44
  well you did this to me. Well yeah, yeah exactly, And
• 1:26:46
  that's why I was saying it in such a like a you know, like
• 1:26:49
  a kind of dismissive way. Is like it is like this movie is just
• 1:26:55
  like well killing Mexicans, but like it's like the adding the like class element
• 1:27:00
  of Saw and like having this guy like do like medical tourism because of like
• 1:27:05
  the shittiness of the medical system in his country, all of the like weird
• 1:27:11
  structural and like social like differences between like that. Like it's like there there
• 1:27:19
  is part you can't escape the fact that Saw is like doing this to like
• 1:27:24
  more marginalize people than himself always and especially in this way. It's especially shown
• 1:27:30
  in this one because it's focused on But Okay, I have a question for
• 1:27:36
  you that's it's based on It's it's related to the ending to the post credits
• 1:27:44
  ending. Okay, so do you stick by a rule of like if there's
• 1:27:47
  a post credit sequence, it's a bad movie rule. It's the rules.
• 1:27:56
  I mean, it's it's in the Hoffman vein of following rules, where it's
• 1:28:00
  like, if you're good enough at it, if you can slam the good
• 1:28:04
  enough at it, you can also be saw in a post credits That's what
• 1:28:09
  it is. It feels like when when the time that Hoffman became such an
• 1:28:15
  awesome character to me was when he puts the bear trap in the Yeah,
• 1:28:20
  when he smashes his own and then and then saves himself. That's the kind
• 1:28:27
  of coolness that this ending had to which was like, ah, we we
• 1:28:30
  got to bring him back. He's puffy, but it doesn't matter. Yeah,
• 1:28:35
  And I I loved I loved seeing him and I love that he the
• 1:28:41
  last kill. They were friends and they and he gets the last kill of
• 1:28:45
  like he's also punishing the Red Herrings code guy who who is the non Mark
• 1:28:50
  Mark guy? Like, yeah, isn't his name Mark, No, it's
• 1:28:55
  Henry would So Yeah, post credit sequence. I'm glad we stuck around for
• 1:29:03
  it. A lot of people left. It was a very juicy lipped sequence.
• 1:29:11
  It was a very that was the most fan servicey part of the movie
• 1:29:15
  where and it was totally earned. But when he's like He's like, do
• 1:29:18
  you know who you did this to? You thought you could do this to
• 1:29:21
  some this guy, you know what I mean, Like you thought you could
• 1:29:24
  trick this guy. It's all the audience being like, yeah, dude,
• 1:29:30
  you thought you could do this that this guy. Like, but the beauty
• 1:29:34
  of the movie is letting Man also giving Yeah. It's like, hey,
• 1:29:43
  dude, Tobin Bell totally deserved a movie where he because he could carry movies
• 1:29:48
  and he looks a particular way, he sounds a particular way, and that
• 1:29:53
  because of that, he was never able to do that. And the same
• 1:29:57
  thing with tom Noonan. It's the same with thing with Harry Dean Stanton,
• 1:30:00
  the same thing with tom noon Yeah, Like there's any character actor who like
• 1:30:04
  kind of like has like Peter also has that problem. It's like suffered from
• 1:30:11
  that problem as well, where it was like, oh, he's Keith fine
• 1:30:14
  in an indie and it's like, no, dude, he can carry a
• 1:30:16
  movie really well. Well, like seeing Seeing Inside with Willem Dafoe and seeing
• 1:30:23
  him act in that kind of role like and given like car carries the entire
• 1:30:29
  movie. Just the incredible I want to talk to you about that. It's
• 1:30:32
  so good. People should see. It's an amazing inside with with Willem Defoe
• 1:30:40
  watching on a plane on a whim on a plane, Dude, bo Burnham's
• 1:30:43
  in it. Oh wait, not that inside, you don't through you,
• 1:30:47
  not that inside gooing and hid. I guess we won't see you next week
• 1:30:55
  with. So we're going back to fucking uh. We're going back to I
• 1:30:58
  mean, we still need to record spot. But what do you rate this?
• 1:31:01
  I mean I rated a next Dude, I tweet that I give this
• 1:31:06
  ten out of ten. Dude, this is my favorite one. I would
• 1:31:11
  say that's my favorite one. It. I would say that it's like it's
• 1:31:15
  like with Rocky Rocky one. You need Rocky one for the rest of them
• 1:31:18
  to exist, but once the rest of them do exist, creeds kind of
• 1:31:21
  better, you know what I mean. Like it's like, I mean,
• 1:31:26
  I know I'm gonna get like, oh look, I'm so se that.
• 1:31:28
  But that's just because like I like one style of movie more than I like
• 1:31:31
  the other style of movie. And that's that's finine. That's fine. But
• 1:31:35
  like I would say, like, by default, the first saw is first,
• 1:31:40
  the number one, but this one is like an incredible achievement. It's
• 1:31:45
  so daring. It's so bold and it's filmmaking. It's so bold in its
• 1:31:49
  vision. It manages to like take all the fun fan service stuff, like
• 1:31:54
  you can watch this movie without any of the intellectual shit. You can watch
• 1:31:58
  this movie and it can be functioning on like a more kind of like primal
• 1:32:03
  level of Like we didn't talk about logan, this is also feels like a
• 1:32:06
  logan, right, Like it's like a kind of like comic book what if.
• 1:32:12
  Right, It's like it's like a it's also a side quill in a
• 1:32:15
  way of like it doesn't have to be cannon. It could stand alone,
• 1:32:20
  you know, like this movie can be its own thing and that's what makes
• 1:32:26
  it so good and you can just watch it as that, or if you're
• 1:32:29
  like a supervan, you could be like, oh, it connects to the
• 1:32:31
  lore. But like it's just like it's it's nice that it's both and it's
• 1:32:35
  nice that it's exciting, and also it's nice that it's this intellectual thing,
• 1:32:40
  Like it's functioning intellectually on this multiple different levels, and it's saying things about
• 1:32:45
  creativity and the creative process while giving us this like remarkable work of art.
• 1:32:50
  Yeah, I agree, I agree. His performance is also out of ten
• 1:32:54
  Jigsaws a ten out of ten Kramers. Because we've never had we've never had
• 1:33:00
  he's transcended himself. Yeah, something that that is. That would be amazing
• 1:33:08
  if they applied to a remake of Nightmare on Elm Street or a remake of
• 1:33:14
  any of them, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, this could
• 1:33:18
  This could work totally for any of them in a way that's like it just
• 1:33:28
  it's it just lives. It's it's a lived in world. And the fact
• 1:33:32
  that the movie leans so hard on its own lore it makes it somehow greater
• 1:33:40
  than itself because it's like, look how strong this movie is. It's so
• 1:33:44
  strong. Look how strong this franchise is. It's so strong that we can
• 1:33:46
  make a standalone feature and it can be called the best Saw movie on a
• 1:33:54
  bunch of lists, you know what I mean. It's like, it's like
• 1:33:56
  what movies should be doing. And I'm so glad that I hope it doesn't
• 1:34:00
  start feeling too much like a gimmick, this kind of like meta modern feel
• 1:34:03
  because it already is. Maybe Barby has that feel. Oppenheimer even also had
• 1:34:10
  a Sloppenheimer, but yeah, Barbie has that feel. It works for me,
• 1:34:16
  it's a sol exciting. Yeah, it's it's gonna be for sure a
• 1:34:19
  mark of this time. Like when we look back at movies from this time,
• 1:34:24
  we're gonna be like everyone was really focused on making movies that were like
• 1:34:27
  very conscientious in this particular way, and that's cool, like thinking about filmmaking.
• 1:34:31
  It's it's the twenty twenties version of of like like mumblecore evolving into Mumblegore.
• 1:34:40
  There were hints of it coming up. They were like it's and it's
• 1:34:43
  evolved through the twenty teens. Yeah, for definitely, definitely, But yeah,
• 1:34:48
  I think we should release this as a main episode. Follow us at
• 1:34:53
  Thirsty for More, presents on Instagram at more Twitter, and guys, please
• 1:34:57
  become a patron. We've reviewed, like not all of the Saw series is
• 1:35:00
  on Patreon. We wanted to release this one because it's like, this is
• 1:35:03
  new, it's the new one. It's exciting. We want to be exactly
• 1:35:09
  a direct sequel, so I kept thinking was between two and three. For
• 1:35:13
  some reason, I don't know why. You don't think that the events of
• 1:35:17
  like Detective Matthews have happened yet we haven't gotten No, no, they haven't
• 1:35:28
  because her trap is that that's her the house of traps where she's supposed to
• 1:35:39
  be there, that's her thing that she has to like shepherd, right yeah,
• 1:35:44
  oh right, yeah, so like she has in this one. She
• 1:35:46
  hasn't started doing the traps yet. She's just become unhint interesting oka. Yeah,
• 1:35:51
  yeah, that's right, that's between one and two interesting. Well.
• 1:35:55
  Uh, it's cool man, it's cool. I I this was such an
• 1:35:58
  amazing I'm so glad that we got to do it. I we kind of
• 1:36:02
  have to treat this as the last episode even though it's not the last episode.
• 1:36:05
  Dude, but like, thank you to our I won't say the name
• 1:36:11
  of the person, but thank you to our Patreon A listener who who really
• 1:36:15
  like just you know, messages and was like, I think you guys should
• 1:36:19
  do saw Thirsty for Saw, and I like, you know, we're not
• 1:36:24
  ones to always take fan recommendations because like not, because we're just it needs
• 1:36:30
  to for In order for something to work with like a Thirsty for More,
• 1:36:33
  I'm realizing we need to both be super excited about the lore of the thing
• 1:36:39
  and we need to have a like a you need to be hesitantly excited about
• 1:36:43
  it, and I'll be like, no, dude, it'll be exactly exactly
• 1:36:46
  movies. And like me, this this was really me. This was the
• 1:36:49
  loan cuts of Thirsty for Gore because it was me realizing how amazing Saw was
• 1:36:56
  as we went and it just kept getting Honestly, it just kept getting better
• 1:36:59
  and better. Anyways, Like even though the quality of the movies weren't great,
• 1:37:01
  it was just so exciting to talk about the next thing and how they
• 1:37:04
  justify and explain the next thing. And that's honestly, what my favorite thing
• 1:37:10
  is about this one is that it's the Thirstiest for Lore totally and I'm I'm
• 1:37:15
  excited. I'm excited that we got to do that. And I honestly,
• 1:37:19
  dude, Saw is completely pantheon for me now completely, It's Yeah, it's
• 1:37:26
  like so and like I've not experienced anything like getting this excitingly pantheon since the
• 1:37:33
  loan. So yeah, thank you guys for joining us on this journey.
• 1:37:39
  Yeah, dude, how do you feel about I mean I've been watching them
• 1:37:43
  these for like fifteen years or twenty years. How do you feel about it?
• 1:37:46
  Seeing it through my eyes? That's the funnest part for me is that
• 1:37:50
  I get to watch you get excited about the things I was excited about when
• 1:37:56
  I first watched them and experienced this one together and then experience this one together,
• 1:38:00
  which is like truly like peak like filmmaking, like where it's like it
• 1:38:06
  actually like when we were talking about it, it's like I wouldn't have made
• 1:38:11
  it like this. If I were to get to make a Saw movie,
• 1:38:15
  I wouldn't have made it like this. I would have made it a different
• 1:38:16
  kind of dank. But like making it really pretty is was like such a
• 1:38:23
  good move. Yeah, it was just like like that pivot into like,
• 1:38:28
  no, let's let's do something that's more of this time rather than like imitating
• 1:38:34
  super fast new metal. Also like like if we're if we have a budget,
• 1:38:42
  like let's let's use it in the proper way as opposed to they had
• 1:38:45
  no money, let's music video this because we don't have no money. Yeah,
• 1:38:50
  And it's like these are things that these are imagery that like really affects
• 1:38:55
  us and younger teens who are gonna they're the ones who see horror movies.
• 1:39:00
  Teens see horror movies. They love horror movies because there's still I think horror
• 1:39:06
  is a way to still have magic as an older child. You know what
• 1:39:11
  I mean, You're still you. You don't have like Christmas, you don't
• 1:39:15
  have like the same magic of like your youth, and so like horror can
• 1:39:18
  seem like mysterious in a way until you start experiencing life's horrors. Dude,
• 1:39:25
  Yeah, real horror, and then you watch Triangle Sadness and you're like,
• 1:39:28
  oh, that's what horror movies. Life is like. Yeah. Yeah,
• 1:39:32
  And so I think that, like I just never got into these movies.
• 1:39:39
  I think I wasn't young enough. I think I say that in the first
• 1:39:44
  episode. Actually, like I was like twenty when the first one came out,
• 1:39:47
  and so like I didn't have the same excitement for for this kind of
• 1:39:50
  experience. But like now that like we get to like talk about it and
• 1:39:54
  experience it in that kind of like whoa dude, like fun way where we're
• 1:39:59
  unpacking it the together. Yeah, where you were like, Alice doesn't have
• 1:40:01
  good taste, I'm not gonna watch these saw movies. No, I never
• 1:40:05
  I never thought you didn't have good taste. Sometimes I was like I resented,
• 1:40:10
  like I I there was a pushback with horror for me, honestly,
• 1:40:14
  much like my current science fiction pushback where I'm like, I don't need speculative
• 1:40:17
  fiction of how we're gonna die. I know, I know the reality of
• 1:40:20
  things, and so like, I feel like like I had that pushback,
• 1:40:26
  but now I'm excited about horror again, and modern horrors are better than Like
• 1:40:31
  I really didn't like that. Maybe I wheel thousands horrors. I really didn't
• 1:40:36
  like that era. It just didn't speak to the insidious horrors and those ones.
• 1:40:42
  Those are those good. Yeah, some of them are really good.
• 1:40:44
  Okay. I never liked conjuring the twenty ten's, Yeah, I know,
• 1:40:46
  I know what you mean. I did. What are the exactly? I
• 1:40:49
  like, there's conjuring the A two the A twenty two movies brought back or
• 1:40:54
  A twenty four movies brought back horror in a way, well they brought back
• 1:40:59
  like the series horror in the Bloomhouse movies brought back the like seventies kind of
• 1:41:05
  like, oh, it's a ghost and we got to go. Sometimes I
• 1:41:10
  wanted to just be a fucking ghost. I hated that it was like thrillers
• 1:41:14
  for a while. Well it's no magic. Yeah, the thrillers were like
• 1:41:17
  more of a two thousands era because they were like having to compete with seven
• 1:41:23
  and David Fincher, Yeah exactly. So it's like, oh, these are
• 1:41:28
  realistic Saw combines. The Saw does combinations with those. That's what's amazing one
• 1:41:32
  Saw, Yeah totally is that there is a little bit of magic. But
• 1:41:36
  you know what I didn't say, This one brings back the mysteriousness of Saw
• 1:41:42
  because there is a kind of like not so much like the other ones take
• 1:41:47
  the veil away in a way that they have to, and this one shows
• 1:41:51
  more than it tells, but there's a kind of like mysteriousness to it because
• 1:41:56
  like he's like, you can see that it's a thought, thought process,
• 1:42:00
  and that's what makes it kind of like, oh, yeah, the the
• 1:42:03
  interesting thing. I'm glad you brought that up actually, because every Saw movie
• 1:42:08
  is like a magic trick, and then every other Saw movie is special Valentino
• 1:42:15
  revealing the magic trick, feeling the magic trick while playing another magic trick on
• 1:42:18
  you. It's like me Valentino, and then it's me remember it. It
• 1:42:29
  did. Valentino is Jigsaw. Dude. I wonder if anyone knows what we're
• 1:42:35
  talking about. There was this like series of fos like reveals. This magician
• 1:42:41
  showed some magician's secrets and he was banned, and that's what Job was based
• 1:42:45
  on. He is Jigsaw. Dude. We've been talking so much about arrested
• 1:42:49
  development through this whole thing, and Job is supposed to be Valentino who is
• 1:42:55
  Jigsaw. Job is a disgraced magician. He is a distress Like Valentino was
• 1:43:00
  disgraced. That was based on him. That's a bummer because he did something
• 1:43:04
  that was really bold, well because he was His whole thing was like I
• 1:43:09
  want magicians to make new true tricks. Yeah, so I'm revealing old ones
• 1:43:13
  so that they don't get lucy. And he had the like jaw saw voice,
• 1:43:16
  yeah, and he had the saw mask. Dude, it was he.
• 1:43:21
  I'm so glad we kissed the sister at the end. He did.
• 1:43:25
  He did do an amazing thing because like I met a magician once in in
• 1:43:29
  my cab and he was like this like eight, I think he's like seventeen.
• 1:43:33
  I added him to them. This is a good cool shit dish.
• 1:43:38
  He but he he was like also a mentalist. Well they're all something of
• 1:43:43
  a yeah, but like it's interesting because like he he's like, you know,
• 1:43:48
  he does do cool new tricks. He Wants wants the design tricks too,
• 1:43:54
  and it's like they're all based on some something that's kind of already exists,
• 1:44:00
  but like the technique is different and doing it in a different way is
• 1:44:03
  amazing. Exactly, that's exactly how are they going to do it in this
• 1:44:10
  one? It is always the question, and then when you see it,
• 1:44:13
  you're like, it's amazing how they did it in this one. And I
• 1:44:17
  want One of the other things that we didn't cover that I kind of just
• 1:44:19
  wanted to touch on with you is what do you just in this post credits
• 1:44:25
  thoughts, what do you make of like the twist, because that was the
• 1:44:33
  I didn't say that was kind of the worst part of the movie, because
• 1:44:36
  okay, but I think I think I have a I was thinking about that
• 1:44:41
  last night when I went for a walk after the movie. I was like
• 1:44:44
  sending voicemails the case and I was just thinking about it, and I was
• 1:44:46
  like, hmm, there's got to be a reason that the twist was really
• 1:44:53
  weak in this one, because the movie thought about so many of the other
• 1:44:56
  things, and so I think that like show wing all of the like extra
• 1:45:01
  things and having it from the perspective of saw, we don't need as much
• 1:45:05
  of a twist because the twist like he's already like the twist was that he's
• 1:45:11
  like gets out of his own trap and that he set up another trap for
• 1:45:14
  them, but like we already know that he's Machiavellian Saw and we know that
• 1:45:17
  you are. That it's a prequel too. The twist of this one actually
• 1:45:23
  was a much more subtle twist, which is ending in Brightness and ending with
• 1:45:29
  that man that credits, those credits where it was just like the credits were
• 1:45:32
  so part of this movie where it's like it ends and it's like like quiet,
• 1:45:36
  it's not not dumb, it's just Saw ten, And it was like,
• 1:45:43
  wow, they made like a weird like like indie modern movie. Yeah,
• 1:45:49
  there was. There was kind of this moment also where Peterson the music
• 1:45:55
  cuts out really quietly when she's just alone and there's this like moment. The
• 1:45:59
  way they use like islands in the movie was like really really really impactful.
• 1:46:04
  Yeah. A great, great movie, a great series. I'm so happy
• 1:46:09
  that we did this. I'm looking forward to Spiral, even though we haven't
• 1:46:13
  done yet, and even though it's coming out before this one and its apparently
• 1:46:15
  but I'm still looking forward to whatever Chris Rock and Samuel Jackson. Yeah,
• 1:46:20
  well, I mean at Lee at the very least Samuel L. Jackson season.
• 1:46:25
  Yeah. Oh dude, guys, if you've made it this far,
• 1:46:30
  clearly you're thirsty for more. And if you become a patron, if you're
• 1:46:32
  not already. We have these new things, like this new way of categorizing
• 1:46:38
  in in Patreon that is called collections, And so I think our show is
• 1:46:44
  really perfect for it because we discussed, like we have like these different like
• 1:46:46
  mini seasons, and I've already got like we've got like such a strong Samuel
• 1:46:50
  L. Season that I've put in one collection. We've got Now we've got
• 1:46:55
  like I'm gonna I'm putting I'm updating it with all of the Schwartze's, I'm
• 1:46:58
  updating with all the Van dam with all the back to the futures like everything.
• 1:47:01
  So like you can just listen to those if you want to, like,
• 1:47:05
  if you're feeling like if you're feeling Thursday for more one day, you
• 1:47:10
  can just click on those and listen to those. Another thing you can do
• 1:47:14
  and diego. If you're listening to this friend of the show, diego.
• 1:47:18
  We actually you actually can set up the Patreon feed through any podcatcher of your
• 1:47:26
  choice. There's a way to set it up. I don't know exactly what
• 1:47:29
  it is, but become a patron and we'll figure it out together. One
• 1:47:32
  of our friends of the show has already done it and does it regularly,
• 1:47:36
  so I can. I can see which podcatcher of choice you have and I'll
• 1:47:41
  tell you how to do it yourself. But there's a way to do it
• 1:47:44
  so you can listen to the the boner the thread of the show. And
• 1:47:48
  I think that that's really exciting, dude, to have, like a boner
• 1:47:51
  feed is Yeah, everyone wants to be feeding on boners, right, so
• 1:47:57
  absolutely, Yeah, you've got to be able to check out the show and
• 1:48:00
  see collections on Patreon, dude. Mm hmmmm mm hmm