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Healing Beyond the Pulpit with Bishop Randy Borders · Just Heal with Dr Jay

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  Speaker 1: Welcome to Jess Hill with Doctor J, a production of
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  Speaker 1: the Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio.
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  Speaker 2: Puts up Good people.
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  Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Just Hell with Doctor J.
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  Speaker 1: And I am your host, Doctor J. Barnett, and today
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  Speaker 1: I am excited to have a good brother, a good
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  Speaker 1: mentor a good man. Uh, none other than the Bishop
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  Speaker 1: Randy Borders. Man, y'all get my blouse. We're gonna do
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  Speaker 1: this like a free champ. We're gonna clap, We're gonna clap.
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  Speaker 1: We're gonna clapp here pop.
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  Speaker 2: What's up? Man? Man, I'm glad to be here. It's
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  Speaker 2: awesome opportunity. Man, just to sit with you.
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  Speaker 1: Man, listen, we've been trying to get together to do this,
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  Speaker 1: and you know, to have a sit down and to
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  Speaker 1: have a conversation. You know, you you are not only
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  Speaker 1: just a pastor and a bishop, but you are a
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  Speaker 1: husband and a father and uh. Today today I want
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  Speaker 1: to dive in the journey of healing for the church.
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  Speaker 2: What does that look like?
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  Speaker 1: How do we continue to expand the conversation around faith
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  Speaker 1: and mental health. How do we continue to talk about
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  Speaker 1: how do we heal people's souls and not just preach
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  Speaker 1: to them? But I also I'm looking forward to your
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  Speaker 1: journey a ministry. Man, Where did you start all those
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  Speaker 1: different things? I want the people to really know. I
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  Speaker 1: get to have these these sessions with you where you're
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  Speaker 1: pouring into me. You're giving me all these great SoundBite
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  Speaker 1: wisdom excerpts, and I wanted to bring you on my
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  Speaker 1: platform because you have a voice that people need to hear.
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  Speaker 2: Man. Thank you so much, sir. It's just been good
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  Speaker 2: watching what guy's been doing in your life and watching
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  Speaker 2: you grow and become the person into how today. So Man,
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  Speaker 2: I'm appreciative.
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  Speaker 1: Beer.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I was. I was in disc one we met,
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  Speaker 2: Oh absolutely not.
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  Speaker 1: You were all over the place, man, all over the place. Man,
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  Speaker 1: I was trying to figure it out.
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  Speaker 2: But you had you had ambition, and you knew where
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  Speaker 2: you wanted to go, just to know how to get there.
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  Speaker 2: And that's that's the thing with a lot of people.
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  Speaker 2: They know what they want to do, they just don't
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  Speaker 2: understand the things that's going to take to get there.
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  Speaker 2: And now, because you know, let's let's back up.
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  Speaker 1: Like you and I connected through social media absolutely, and
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  Speaker 1: so we connected through social media, and I think I
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  Speaker 1: extended the olive branch and we began talking and began building.
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  Speaker 1: Has that happened to you often for somebody to reach
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  Speaker 1: out and try to connect and and and for me,
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  Speaker 1: my reaching out is I know I needed accomplash.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely, it happens a lot of times. People are looking
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  Speaker 2: for different things, so it happens on different levels. But
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  Speaker 2: it was different with you because I sensed the sincerity
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  Speaker 2: of your art and I knew that you really were
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  Speaker 2: trying to get somewhere. And also I could see the potential.
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  Speaker 2: And a lot of people don't have what they think
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  Speaker 2: that have and they're trying to go somewhere and they're
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  Speaker 2: just trying to get something and somebody told them that
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  Speaker 2: they have it. But it's like you know, when somebody has,
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  Speaker 2: especially when they have what you have and you had it,
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  Speaker 2: it just need to be bought out. What stood out
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  Speaker 2: to you though one not in the sincerity, but there
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  Speaker 2: were other clips that you had already posted, and I
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  Speaker 2: could hear the words. There was something in your voice.
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  Speaker 2: It was in the sound of your voice. It was
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  Speaker 2: the maturity of experience and what you have been through.
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  Speaker 2: You could hear it. See, it's a difference in somebody
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  Speaker 2: singing a song and somebody singing a song who have
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  Speaker 2: experienced life, it sounds different and it's the same way
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  Speaker 2: with people talking. It's different, and you had that difference. Wow,
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  Speaker 2: even not knowing your journey, I knew that there was
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  Speaker 2: a journey.
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  Speaker 1: I just had to hear it. Not knowing my journey,
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  Speaker 1: but knew that was a journey. Just I had to
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  Speaker 1: hear it. Absolutely. I when you think about young black men,
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  Speaker 1: because I was a young black man, I think I was.
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  Speaker 1: I was recently probably like right out of grad school
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  Speaker 1: when I reached out. And you think about mentorship, you
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  Speaker 1: think about support system, you think about a compass. Do
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  Speaker 1: you think the overall development of a young black man's journey?
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  Speaker 1: And I'm just speaking about particularly black men because we're
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  Speaker 1: you know, obviously you know black men. Do you think
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  Speaker 1: that most of us don't get there because we don't
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  Speaker 1: meet you and our lives.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely, a lot of times what we do we live
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  Speaker 2: for moments, but we don't realize that beyond the moments.
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  Speaker 2: For example, I'm a pastor, so we teach deliverance but
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  Speaker 2: not development. So we teach people to have moments. We
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  Speaker 2: teach people to have these moments. And I'm tearing a
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  Speaker 2: card right now. This man said. We teach for the liver,
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  Speaker 2: but not development. Absolutely. So what happens a lot of
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  Speaker 2: times is that what people do is that we live
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  Speaker 2: for a moment. So we have another moment, have this,
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  Speaker 2: even if it's in the presence of God. We have
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  Speaker 2: this moment and we get up off the floor. We
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  Speaker 2: think things are changed. But what happened. We had an experience,
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  Speaker 2: but then it changed our character. It doesn't change. It
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  Speaker 2: doesn't create a system of living, because it's about creating
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  Speaker 2: a system. And so you can have great moments, but
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  Speaker 2: if you don't create a system by which there are parameters,
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  Speaker 2: or a system by which there are markers to which
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  Speaker 2: you know that you actually met your goal, then you're inspired.
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  Speaker 2: So we teach people to be inspired but not transformed.
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  Speaker 2: And so I think meetings meeting someone who understands that
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  Speaker 2: is that you can deal with people anywhere that they
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  Speaker 2: are if they know that they can't stay where they are.
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  Speaker 2: So so we don't we don't celebrate process as much
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  Speaker 2: as I think we should. We won't. Like so I
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  Speaker 2: grew up in this day, when we go to church,
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  Speaker 2: they look at your hands and hands look new. Well, man,
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  Speaker 2: you haven't experienced, but you really are not. You're new
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  Speaker 2: on the inside, but not really new mentally. Your soul
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  Speaker 2: has to be transformed. You're transformed by the renewing of
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  Speaker 2: your mind. My job is to make people think different
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  Speaker 2: because you're never changed until you think differently. So and
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  Speaker 2: that's what you're doing now, is you're helping us refocus
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  Speaker 2: all around this whole thing of mental health. Because as
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  Speaker 2: a pastor, I grew up the wall. You just need
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  Speaker 2: to come to the altar, and that was it. We
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  Speaker 2: had the same issues. We didn't have the language, so
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  Speaker 2: we didn't know what we needed. So consequently we come
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  Speaker 2: to church and somebody I would scream out and some
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  Speaker 2: of that I'm not saying they didn't want to touch
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  Speaker 2: by God, but a lot of it was it was
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  Speaker 2: the only place we get to get a release. And
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  Speaker 2: so I've gone through hell out and I get to
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  Speaker 2: go to and so that was God's touch. But it
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  Speaker 2: was also my release of the anxiety and everything that
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  Speaker 2: I've been through.
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  Speaker 1: Man, when you think about what you just said, because
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  Speaker 1: I feel like for many churches a drug absolutely they
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  Speaker 1: go to get high, get another hit, to get another hit.
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  Speaker 1: What can be done, Bishop, Because we're seeing conversations right
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  Speaker 1: mental health has become ubiquitous. It's being talked about everywhere.
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  Speaker 1: But how do we transform and transcend the conversation about
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  Speaker 1: mental health to where now there is this system of
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  Speaker 1: integrating mental health in our faith walk, in our journey
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  Speaker 1: with God.
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  Speaker 2: I think that one of the most important things is
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  Speaker 2: that church has to return to be in a safe place,
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  Speaker 2: because it's not safe. And when it's if it's not
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  Speaker 2: a safe place, I can't I can't even start to
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  Speaker 2: hear because it can't be transparent. So I have to
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  Speaker 2: do what everybody else has done, and that is keep
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  Speaker 2: the mask on. And so I learned to parade in
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  Speaker 2: front of you what I want you to think about me,
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  Speaker 2: but not really who I am or where I am.
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  Speaker 2: And so if we can't be honest, we can never
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  Speaker 2: start the journey of healing. And church has to be
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  Speaker 2: a place where we can be honest without being judged.
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  Speaker 2: So you can be honest without me frowning upon it.
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  Speaker 2: And all the conversations we've had as many things that
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  Speaker 2: you share where I didn't get moved as you were
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  Speaker 2: growing because I realized where you were not where you
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  Speaker 2: were going to become. But you had to be able
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  Speaker 2: to have those conversations with someone that you could trust,
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  Speaker 2: who would not judge you, and who would not repeat it.
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  Speaker 2: And church is a place the way everybody want to
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  Speaker 2: know about everybody else. We don't have that.
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  Speaker 1: There's no psychological safety, right, no psychological safety.
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  Speaker 2: And so we have to begin to teach people how
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  Speaker 2: to handle people because most people in church, but they
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  Speaker 2: what they've experienced is just to mishandle it.
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  Speaker 1: And so you have to be transparent with people. So
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  Speaker 1: what you're saying is church heard, is really that you've
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  Speaker 1: been mishandled.
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  Speaker 2: You've been mishandled, and I gotta teach you how to
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  Speaker 2: handle me because you can't handle me your way. There's
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  Speaker 2: a way you have to handle me. And so if
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  Speaker 2: we don't understand the difference between dealing with the different
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  Speaker 2: kinds of people that we have, then we deal with
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  Speaker 2: everybody the same way. And it is not a cookie
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  Speaker 2: cutter mole. You can't treat everybody the same way because
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  Speaker 2: everybody doesn't have the same story, and we have to
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  Speaker 2: let you know your story matters. We teach conformity, just
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  Speaker 2: conform be like us, and in reality we want you
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  Speaker 2: to be like Christ. But in reality, all of us
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  Speaker 2: are never meant. We're never meant to be just a like,
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  Speaker 2: and so we got to learn how to deal with
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  Speaker 2: people as individuals.
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  Speaker 1: Let me just let us just sit. Man, this is
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  Speaker 1: what I get all the time. I just want you
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  Speaker 1: guys to be introduced to this. Because he likes fled
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  Speaker 1: under the radar. Oh man, he likes it. He likes
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  Speaker 1: Ben and Shelby and just flying on the radar. But
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  Speaker 1: this is a This man is a vineyard, do you
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  Speaker 1: hear me? A vineyard of wisdom. We're teaching conformative. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: it's like be like us.
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  Speaker 2: So when you come to us, you forget everything that
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  Speaker 2: you know and start looking like us. And then everybody
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  Speaker 2: in the church looks like everybody has to think like
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  Speaker 2: there's no individuality and so therefore we stifle your creativity.
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  Speaker 2: So the creativity you bring to the table, that's gone
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  Speaker 2: because and so now you got to go somewhere else
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  Speaker 2: to be creative, because we've not created a place for
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  Speaker 2: you to be yourself.
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  Speaker 1: So many creative people one of two things. It's one
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  Speaker 1: or two extremes. They're either abused in church absolutely because
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  Speaker 1: they're creative. And what happens is their creativity and also
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  Speaker 1: their range in the way that they're able to create
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  Speaker 1: is abused. And we know abuse is mishandling. Right, you
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  Speaker 1: are abnormally using. You are working somebody without paying and
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  Speaker 1: calling it service to God. Yes, and you are having
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  Speaker 1: people set up Monday night, Tuesday night, Wednesday night, Thursday
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  Speaker 1: night you get them a little rest, and Friday night
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  Speaker 1: you're calling on them. And so many of these people
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  Speaker 1: have been so abused to where by the time they
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  Speaker 1: try to get free and they come to see me.
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  Speaker 1: Because most of the people that I see, Bishop, if
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  Speaker 1: I'm honest, are believers, and they're believers who are trying
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  Speaker 1: to now not just heal, but they have to retrain
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  Speaker 1: their mind and their brain to even think as an individual.
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  Speaker 2: Well, see what Jesus said, I've come that you might
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  Speaker 2: have life and have it more bundanly we interpret it.
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  Speaker 2: I come that you might have church and have church
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  Speaker 2: more bundling. So we got a whole lot of church
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  Speaker 2: in no life. So what if God sends somebody to me,
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  Speaker 2: but the bulk of their time won't be spent with me.
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  Speaker 2: Maybe their time is going to be spending a moment
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  Speaker 2: like this, and I have to release them to be
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  Speaker 2: who they need to be in other spaces and not
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  Speaker 2: just announce you. So a lot of times is that
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  Speaker 2: if we can't control you and keep you right here
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  Speaker 2: under us, and we can't see you every moment, then
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  Speaker 2: we perceive it to be that when you somewhere else,
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  Speaker 2: you're not doing the work of the Lord. Maybe the
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  Speaker 2: work of the Lord for me is for you to
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  Speaker 2: be connected to me and to be of me, to
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  Speaker 2: be a branch, for you to be a vine extension
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  Speaker 2: of the branch. We have to rethink the way we've
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  Speaker 2: seen everything, because if we're to go into the world,
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  Speaker 2: all the world and be in every space, then you
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  Speaker 2: can't be under me all the time, if you're in
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  Speaker 2: the mountain of government or the other places that you
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  Speaker 2: have to be. So what we So maybe you are
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  Speaker 2: created to be in government, but I'm trying to get
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  Speaker 2: you do some kind of parliamentary procedures. In church, I've
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  Speaker 2: limited you and stifled your gift.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, And the other part of that extreme is you
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  Speaker 1: either abuse or your oracance.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely, because you're not as committed as the rest of
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  Speaker 2: the people. And so I need you to be more
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  Speaker 2: committed to me, because commitment to God looks like being
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  Speaker 2: committed to me, and I don't understand that you can
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  Speaker 2: be committed to me and we stay connected and you
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  Speaker 2: still use the gifts that you have in the other spaces,
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  Speaker 2: in the other places. It's not that you abuse the
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  Speaker 2: church or you abuse your leadership. It's that that you
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  Speaker 2: have a dual nature and you know how to do both.
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  Speaker 2: And that's what we have to celebrate is people that
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  Speaker 2: know how to operate in other spaces besides just in
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  Speaker 2: here being an usher. And so I limit to I
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  Speaker 2: have a list of auxiliaries that you could do one
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  Speaker 2: of these things. What if what I'm called to do
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  Speaker 2: doesn't fit in none of these boxes? None of this box.
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  Speaker 2: And so now where we're dealing with mental health, is
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  Speaker 2: it some people crazy? Because when I say crazy, I
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  Speaker 2: mean they they're just out of their mind because there
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  Speaker 2: is no place that has been created for me to fit.
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  Speaker 2: So maybe we need to redo our paradigms, our systems,
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  Speaker 2: our structures so that we can actually be more inclusive
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  Speaker 2: than exclusive. I'm sitting unless she's letting all this is
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  Speaker 2: not just man, because we're just at the place now
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  Speaker 2: that we realize we need you. And so everybody's calling
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  Speaker 2: on a doctor Jay or someone in your We needed
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  Speaker 2: you before. Now, it's just that it had to be
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  Speaker 2: made known. I thinking had to change so that we
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  Speaker 2: could bring somebody in to get us help that we need,
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  Speaker 2: because before, before this season, it was like it was
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  Speaker 2: so taboo for us to bring in the mental health
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  Speaker 2: professionals and even bringing the medical professionals.
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  Speaker 1: Because every God gonna fix it all, God gonna fix it.
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  Speaker 1: All that pressure high, yeah, because.
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  Speaker 2: Because nobody's teaching us how to eat right, We're eating
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  Speaker 2: later at night, preaching on the road, eating late at night,
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  Speaker 2: and then we're talking about how God's gonna heal our
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  Speaker 2: body when God is like that a part that I
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  Speaker 2: expect you to do as well.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah that put that chicken down, Negro, Yeah, oh Jesus, Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: put that chicken down, put that kool aid down, absolutely,
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  Speaker 1: put down that bread, pick up a Barbelle pick up
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  Speaker 1: or dumbing like yeah. And I think what what I'm
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  Speaker 1: hearing you saying is that is the church has to
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  Speaker 1: move back or I don't know have the church ever
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  Speaker 1: been there, because after watching my father passor for thirty
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  Speaker 1: some years, I don't know if the church has ever
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  Speaker 1: been in a place, whether there was a system of practicality,
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  Speaker 1: to where individual could be developed after they experienced delivery.
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  Speaker 2: So it has to be what I holistic. Ye, so
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  Speaker 2: we have to not only deal with your spirit, but
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  Speaker 2: we got to deal with your soul, your mind, you will,
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  Speaker 2: your emotions, all of that, and then we got to
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: deal with just your emotional health, your spiritual health. What
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  Speaker 2: are you doing with your life. I'm still discovering now
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  Speaker 2: at the age I am now things that I need
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  Speaker 2: to do to enjoy myself because I'm in a different
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  Speaker 2: stage in life. My children have grown the out of house,
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  Speaker 2: are rediscovering what it means to have fun, and I
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  Speaker 2: realized that's so my wife and I talked about this morning.
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  Speaker 2: There's so many things I missed while I was trying
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  Speaker 2: to have church, and trust me, I'm making up for
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  Speaker 2: lost time. I missed it because I gave the whole
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  Speaker 2: of me to the church. Now, I believe that my
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  Speaker 2: priorities belonged to God, but my exclusivity was never for
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  Speaker 2: the church. There were other parts of me. That's why
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  Speaker 2: I started writing and doing other mentoring and other things,
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  Speaker 2: because everything, every part of me was not just for
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  Speaker 2: the church what we call the church, but it was
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  Speaker 2: meant for other areas. And so you had to learn
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  Speaker 2: how to be in another space. The Bible say he
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  Speaker 2: gives us a tongue of the learn that you had
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  Speaker 2: to have a tongue so you can give word to
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  Speaker 2: the weary and season. Every person that needs a word
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  Speaker 2: that is weary is not in the church. So you
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  Speaker 2: got to learn how to speak in other language. So
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  Speaker 2: he said we were speaking other tongues. I don't just
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  Speaker 2: believe that the other tongues is just speaking in tongues.
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  Speaker 2: I believe I gotta have the tongue of the businessman
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  Speaker 2: and the tongue of the professional so that I can
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  Speaker 2: actually enter into that realm. And God's taking us into
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  Speaker 2: other arenas, and that's what I love.
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  Speaker 1: I want to ask you this, Bishop, because I'm listening
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  Speaker 1: to you, and I want to go back to something
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  Speaker 1: and something you said that should out to me. You
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  Speaker 1: gave a whole of yourself to the church. Yes, and
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  Speaker 1: the exclusivity of who you were was meant for you. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: that you gave even that part to the church, even
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  Speaker 1: that part to the church. I gotta ask you this.
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  Speaker 1: In your fifties, now, are there some parts that you resent?
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  Speaker 1: And just be honest, there are some things I resent, uh,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: taking my vacations around when the church was having stuff
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: instead of taking my vacation when my wife wanted to.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: I resent Sometimes like my son play football so I
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: could be and revived. But on Friday night, my wife, oh,
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: you're gonna be here for the game, and I'd be
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: rushing back in to be at the game. I wish
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: there were more times when I said that I just
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: wasn't gonna go because I needed to be with them. Now,
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: my children have great relationships, and there were a lot
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: of things that I did just for them. But looking
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: back on it, let me tell you what people do.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: People will kill you and blame me for nine uh.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: So they'll take as much as you give. And you
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: have to set those parameters and set your priorities and
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: then decide you're gonna live. I'm gonna give myself the ministry.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna give myself to church, but I'm not gonna
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: let them take me. I'm going to give to them
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: what I want them to have.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: When you think about that, you know, and I love
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: how you are contextualizing this in a way and you're
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: coloring with the backdrop that the relationship with your children
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: are great because of how you've established that. But and
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: I think for me it is the conversation with you
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: as not bishop, but as Randy looks in the mirror now,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: and you look in the mirror from the view that
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: I have more years behind me than I do ahead
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: of me.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, how do you want to live going forward? Going forward?
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: I want to have fun. I love the Lord, I
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: love his people, and I'm going to do what I
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: need to do for that. But there are things that
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: I want to do to make sure that I'm enjoying life.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: And I think that's what he desires for me, is
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: for me to enjoy the life that is given me.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: I think that looks different than the way that I
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: began minishing, because I began minishing the hustle. I started
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: a church at twenty one years old. I graduated from
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: college on a Saturday, started the church. I graduated on
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: a Sunday, saw the church the next Saturday. Because I
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: believe if God spoke to you, if you think long,
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: you do wrong. So you just got to jump into it.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: So I jumped into it not knowing what I was doing.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: So my early years was just a hustle trying to
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: make things happen trying to put it together. And you
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: make money three four, So what you're making is going
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: into the ministry. We got to suffer so we can
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: get this ministry off FORGM. And you look back and
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: I don't know that that was all that was required
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: of me. One of the things I had to learn
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: because I did so much. And I read the story
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: of Moses when God told him his father in law said,
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: what you're doing is not good. You're doing so much.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: These people standing by you from morning and evening trying
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: to get something else from you. You need distribution. You
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: got to distribute it. Find you seven year olders and
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: put the weight on them. And so that's one of
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: the things that has helped me. And then I'm learning
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: even to that I got a distributor. I can't carry everything.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: And the old days, the church was built on the
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: almighty past the pastor coming pastor got it. He go
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: and we kind of gloated in that they eating on me.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: I'm telling you, they don't kill you. And what they're
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: gonna do if you die, jump on the next one
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: back then let them ride. And so what you have
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: to do is distribute the way. And so I'm spending
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: my time now learning how to do it. Well, it
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: might not work out. Well, they're gonna figure it out,
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: because that's what they'll do. They'll figure it out. What
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: did you learn about yourself? If you can give a
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: couple of things, What have you learned about yourself as
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: it pertains to where you are now in life in
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: this season? What are some things that you learn about Randy?
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: One of the things I learned about Randy is that
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Randy has been too concerned about the thirds, about whether
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: it's the people I oversee, the pastors I oversee. The
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: thing that I've learned is that the most important thing
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: in my life is my wife and plas, Yeah, that's
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: the most important thing in my life. So it's not
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: about what I've given to everyone one else. It's what
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: am I given to her? And can she live back
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: over her life and say it was worth it? Wow?
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: What are those conversations now? What are they like now
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: that you guys are having asked you? Because because now
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: there's reflection that is happening with with with within you
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: and then I'm sure there is some level of introspection
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: as well.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Oh man, And when I say things like this, she say,
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: you know, I wanted to say this. Then I wanted
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: to say that, but I didn't want to be in
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: competition with the church. I never wanted you to feel
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: like that I was against God, against what God called
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: you to do, but I did want more of you.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: I'm like, wow, how did I miss it? I missed
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: it because I was doing following the pattern that I
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: had been taught. What I saw everybody else do, and
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: all they did is you got to give it all
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: to the church. And now, at this age in my life,
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: I love my church, but I realized that my first
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: responsibility is to my wife and my kids, and that's
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: what I love. I love it. When my daughter caused
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: me and said, I just I just wanted to check
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: on my Daddy. That means more to me than everybody
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: in my church called me saying whatever they want to
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: say and all the accolades they give you at the anniversary.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: If my son caused me and say, Dad, I was
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: just thinking about you had you on my mind. Love you.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: What do you want? Nothing? Necessarily? You know you kids,
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: You're like, what was what do you want? I don
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: want nothing, Dad, I just want to hear your voice.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: That right there means more to me. Than all this
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: church stuff put together.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Now, recently, I had a pastor Sarah or powerful Woman
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: of God pastor, and she talked about going through a
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: divorce and having to uh in some way, you know,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: reimagine and also recreate because of what church culture created.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: But then it's also how church culture viewed her after
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: being a woman that has been divorced, and then now
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: here you are sitting and says your wife says she
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: wanted more of you.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: She just said, know how to say it?
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: What do you say to these pastors' wives that are
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: supporting their husband. They feel called, They feel like, I
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: want to stand behind him in this ministry, but I
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: also don't want to lose myself number one, but then
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: lose him because what you just shared is that you
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: lost yourself in ministry, and by losing yourself, your wife
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: lost you.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, I want to just take a moment and just
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: speak to every pastor's wife, demand conversation. One of the
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: things that we don't like to do is talk sometimes
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: about where we really are because we're so far in
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: the future. We don't deal with the prison, and dealing
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: with the present is the only thing that's going to
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: cause you to get to the future without resentment. I'm
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: glad my wife's not here. If you ask her if
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: she resented anything, she might have a little list longer
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: than mine. But it's because of the patterns that we saw. Now,
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: we love God with all of our heart, and we
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: love each other with all of our heart. But if
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: we had it to do over, I think there will
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: be more conversations about us and about what we desire
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: and what we want and how does that look to you?
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: And how does that make you feel? Because more than
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: how does it look, how does that make you feel
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: when I do this? And so how does it make
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: you feel when I'm gone? Because for me, I spend
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: a lot of time in the tenement ministry, so so
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: much of it was on the road, Hey, come meet me,
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: But how does it feel when I'm doing it all
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: the time? Maybe there are other streams that I should
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: have opened up earlier so that we could spend more
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: time doing that than just feel like we're trying to
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: make it, because there again, I'm hustling for the church.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Don't do for ministry what you won't do for your family.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: It's all about you, That's what matters.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: And I hope that you know when this drops that
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: the men, because I know there's a lot of passages
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: this is following.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: I hope that they hear that absolutely because we.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: We gotta you know, And I can say this because
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: I'm a p K and you know, when my parents
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: was married, my mom talked about this on her episode.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: That it was a.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: That that there was a relationship that my father had
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: with church that we often you know, want it from
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: him absolutely, you know. So it's like this, this this
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: this competition thing. But then on the other side of
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, are we saying that we're a competition
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: with God?
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: So it's like to like, like what your wife said
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: is do I want to say this because this is
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: God and this is But what you're saying and what
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: I'm hearing is this is a God thing over here,
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: m m. But this is a family thing over.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: A family thing over it. Absolutely, And what I realize
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: is that my family is a part of the God thing,
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: but all of the God thing. When I said all
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: the God, all of the Church, I have to set
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: parameters and not allow it to soak up who we
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: are as a family and not let it deal with
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: this entity right here. And one thing I can say
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: is that we ended up with being man. My family
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: is tight meet with my wife and my kids. We're
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: all tight. We built it because I was intentional about that,
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: But I wouldn't have been as intentional if my wife
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: was not the mand Oh you're gonna give attention to this.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: She told me. She would tell us all talk. My
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: kids are not gonna grow up be on open talking
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: about my daddy, mama, but never there.
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: The church raise me, she said. So she said, I'm
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: on el, she said. She said, they're not gonna get
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: up and talking about the church raised me. You're gonna
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: be here, and so she would say that. And I
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: didn't understand their boys at the time.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: But now that my kids are grown, they talk about
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: all the things that we were at and all the
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: things that they didn't miss. And I looked back at
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: those moments and I'm so glad I didn't have the
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: full revelation that I have to admit that she had
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: it though. She said, my kids are not gonna say
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: they were raised by the church, So ain't know, Nanny
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: gonna be over will They're gonna take them clean their
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: own house. We're gonna take care of that. People came
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: in and helped us with different things, but it was
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: very light because my wife was like, I'm a wife,
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: your husband, I'm a mother, your father. This is our family.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: It is not the churches family. So we had to
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: work there. Kudos to normal borders, Mama borders. We have
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: a drink that this is water, folks, and this is coffee. Here, man,
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: that's so good.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: You know, as I'm sitting here, I think there's parts
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: of me that is in some way reconciling with what
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: I didn't get as a son. And listening to you
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: making the change and the effort to be more of
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: a dad than to be more of a pastor. Absolutely
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: one of my favorite sermons that I love to hear.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: I grew up in the South, and I grew up
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: listening to Jasper WHEELMS, one of my favorites. Yes, I
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: grew up. People don't know. I'm I tell y'all, I know.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: I look, you know, y'all look at me, y'all see
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: this thirty year old man. But I'm not as young
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: as I look at thirty. Yeah, I grew up listening
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: to Leo Daniels, C. L. Franklin. Yes, we grew up
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: listening to old guys. And I remember when Jasper was
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: preaching Cee L. Franklin's film. I was a kid at
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: that time, but I don't have an understanding, oh what
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: he's actually preaching about until I am a wrong man,
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: And as he's closing his sermon out and he's talking
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: about a good soldier, and he's talking about I don't
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: want to die as a soldier that is spoken of
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: in the way that I was a good pastor. Yes,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: I preach well, I saying, well, he said, I can't
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: die as a good soldier.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: If my wife don't say he was.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: A good husband, wow, I never forget that, and my
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: children don't say that I was a good father, because
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: those are the things that makes up the life that
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: I have lived, not from pastors.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: And so as you're sitting.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: Here, there's much of me that it's driving down memory
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: lane because I'm having this moment when I'm just like, oh, man,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: and I think about not just what I lost, but
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: I also think about what I didn't gain, you know,
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: because I didn't get very many moments. And I'm at
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: a place part where I'm centered, you know, in my
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: emotions and all those different things and you know, and
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: I've accepted the relationship that my father and I have,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: and I've accepted that it won't ever be what I
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: desire to be, and I'm.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: Okay with that.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: But hearing this ease parts of me because your children
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: get to have not only that experience, but they also
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: get to have.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: The memories, absolutely, absolutely.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: The memories of seeing you say, you know what, I'm
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: going to miss the night and I'm going to show.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: Up for you.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, because well, I don't think we realize how important
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: it is, and not just either as parents, but how
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: important it is when you could show up for somebody
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: you love.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: Man, What was so funny? My son played football and
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: I didn't understand the game, but he didn't care anything
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: about whether I understood what was going on. His main
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: thing was looking up, seeing me there and pointing at me.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: He would just point and of course, you know they
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: were telling me when to jump. Now, jump now, he screamed. Now,
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: I was that lost, man. But you know what he
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: remembers that just the fact that we showed up. It's
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: the power showing up. It's the power of presence. And
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: even to what you were saying, is that sometimes you
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: miss what you gain and you miss those moments, but
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: then God sends people in you who creates other moments,
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: and even as in the grown man, then I get
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: to be a child in the presence. My spirits are
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: the presence of my mentor, and I'm gaining new moments
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: that absolutely not that they make up for the moments
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: I didn't have, but they're almost doubled impotency because He's
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: given me what I missed. It's almost like what I
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: did not get, I am getting more now than ever.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so, because you know, you know, I
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: speak about you and Bishop Jakes publicly all the time
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: on everything that I'm talking about.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: I think you guys are probably and again two of.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: The most important men in my life, especially for the
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: level that I'm not only servicing there but living at,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: but also the level that I'm called to minister it. Yes, sir,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: and I say that because you know it's interesting, and
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: I told Bishop this, and I've even said this to you.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: You know, men like me often meet saulves Absolutely in French,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: we often meet Salt on the journey and the experience
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: can feel like that of a sall of Damascus.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: You can feel like, man, I'm being knocked from a course,
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: I'm being not from my post. And every day, whether
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: it is a thirty minute conversation with you or our
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: conversation with our conversation with you, it fills my cup
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: because here's the thing. In that moment, I get to
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: be all signed in that moment, absolutely, in that moment,
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: I get to set at your feet and glean and listen,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: and in that moment I get to feel the sense
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: of belonging because there's the reinforcement that not only are
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: you called, but you're qualified absolutely because sometimes pop, you
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: know this man, you could be gifted spiritually, you can
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: be gifted, you know, and whatever your talent is. But
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: if you struggle with feeling qualified, and you struggle with imposters,
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: enjoyn you struggle with, you know, the feelings of inadequacy,
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: it's hard for that thing to really to really bloom
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: or to really blossom. And so I say thank you
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: publicly because when I met you, it was at a
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: time where I was praying to God for somebody to
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: meet me on my road of Damascus.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: And what I.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: Love about God is that on this journey that He's
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: had to fother me in a lot of those moments,
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: and then he will sending you and it was center
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: you because you were able to see where I could go,
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: who I could be, and you begin to speak to that.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: But then you.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: Also allow a space for a young man to rebuild
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: his trust with men. This is why a lot of
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: men are struggling right now in friendships and they're struggling
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: in mentor to mente relationships because we don't know what
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: trusts look like. If betrayal has always been your experience, yes,
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: if abandonment has always been your portion, if rejection has
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: been the reality that you live in, and finally somebody.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: Can say, no, I see something in you. I see it.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: You just gotta do this, You just gotta go here,
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: You just gotta believe, you just gotta know man that
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: does something. Man, So thank you for that, because I'm
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: not here like all the stuff people like a lot
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: of times, I'm running stuff?
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: Are you?
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: And you don't realize that that when you're speaking, it's
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: encouraged me to go yes. This is why one of
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: my favorite parts in the Bible is whining the dull
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: the sins on Jesus. And it's like, in this moment,
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: God has said, this is my beloved and home won
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: will please. And after that happened, Jesus took off. He
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: validated him publicly. He couldn't take off until he had affirmation.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: Every man needs three things. They need attention, affirmation, and affection.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: Just needs to know that you're seeing.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: Repeat that. Every man needs attention, affirmation, and affection, which
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: affection is like, hey man, you do good. You felt
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: not only a firm but you felt that touch, somebody
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: hitting you on the back, putting a hand on your
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: shoulder like you do for your son. They need that affection.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: They need that attention. Hey am I saying do they
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: really see me? You can be doing all of this
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: stuff and wondering whether or not you're really seeing. You
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: need that attention and you need affirmation. The cause running
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: by me, running by bishop is like I'm being affirmed
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: in the assignment that I have for my life. If
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: nobody sees me, I'm seeing and when I see them
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: they give me words of affirmation and words of affection.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: I love you, son, I appreciate what you're doing because
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: you're affected so many people. Now you talked about saw
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: in the New Testament, but most of the time you
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: meet Sauls of the Old Testament when that's what I'm
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: talking about. Yeah, you say, knocked off your beast, that's right.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: I will do this if you talk about Twusawa. Because
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: one you meet those people who can't stand to see
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: you go further than them, and when you go further
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: than them, then they want to kill you and they
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: set out to kill the influence that you have because
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: and you got to have people in your life that
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: will say, I see you, and your work will exceed mine,
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: and I'll be over your cheering and clapping, not wanting
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: anything from you, not demanded, because most people who want
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: to help you get to the next level already see
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: what they're gonna get from you in the next level.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: And you got to have people say I want see
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: you there. You owe me nothing but success. You got
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: to succeed and that's that's my payment for the time
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: that I spent. Wow, and that's what you got to have,
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: and got to send you more people who nothing from
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: you but to see you be the best version of yourself.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: Because since I met you, you've been about four j's.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: I like this from down here, I like this.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been about four j's, but you know, and
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: I think you know the beauty.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: The beauty and this is is.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: Every Jay taught me something about the Jay that I
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: am today. I am lighter than I've ever been. I
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: carry a lot of weight. I carry a lot of pain,
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: and we don't see. Here's the thing I want to
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: tell that the people from a psychological perspective and from
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: a physiological even after you have released the pain, hold
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: on quote from here, it's still living.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: In your body. Absolutely, It's still living in your body. Absolutely.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: I had an incident a couple of years ago where
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: I woke up in excruciating pain. I didn't know what
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: it was. And that wonderful woman that I talked about,
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: she couldn't get up out of the bed to take
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: the yah. But that's another story. But I was an
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: excruciating pain. I ended up going to the hospital. I
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: had to have my call blad to remove and it
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: really made me wake up because a lot of the
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: stuff that I carried, I believe I carried it in
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: my body. But the moment that they removed that, it's
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: like life opened up. But it made me think about
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: a lot of things, all the stuff that I've been through,
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: all the things that I carried it's affected me and
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: I didn't know that it was affected me. And once
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: that happened, I realized, I can't let anything affect me
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: like I've let life affect me in the past. I
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: gotta stay I gotta stay free so I can stay home,
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: to stay free, so you can stay home. I gotta
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: stay free. My wholeness is connected to my freedom. So
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: I ain't gonna putting one on me that I don't
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: want because I can't accept it. We built our life
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: in the past accepting everybody's cares, things that I was
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: not assigned to, things that were not meant for me,
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: and it wasn't my problem. But I took your problem
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: because I was the pastor. I took your problem as
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: if it was my problem. All I do I can
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: lead you to the one that can help you, but
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: I can't help you with all of that. I make
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: a good referral to Jay who went to school to
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: walk people through all of that, because some of that's
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: above my pay grade. I pray for you, but I
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: know other folks can help you. And I try to
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: do things that I really didn't need to be trying
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: to do. Do pastors need a therapist. Every pastor needs
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: a therapist. You need somebody because life is layered and everything.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: God didn't tell me some things I didn't learn until
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: I said on accounts with something telling me how wrong
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: I was for trying to live my life for the
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: world and not finding out who I was. God didn't
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: tell me that. The Holy Ghost didn't tell me that.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: My therapist told my mine. He listened to all this stuff.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: I thought he was like, oh wow, he said, well
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: who are you? When he asked me who I was?
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: I couldn't answer the question because everything I was asked,
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: everything I was answering was tied to performance. Who is
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: Randy when he's not performing? And that shifted my life
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: because I had no idea because since I was twelve
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: years old, I've been performing for everybody because every time
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: I performed, they would clap, and when they were clap, man,
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: I would feel so good, and I thought I need
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: so I lived for the next moment I could make
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: somebody else clap, and that what do you do? Because
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: you do know there's gonna come a day when they're
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: not gonna be clapping anymore. And what would you do
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: on the day that they're not clapping if you don't
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: know who you are. So my identity stopped being in
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: what I did, and my identity is in Christ. And
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: I learned how to say I'm okay with me. And
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: I had to be okay with me if other people
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: aren't okay with me, because as a as a pastor,
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: as a leader, as a business owner, you're gonna have
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: to go through dealing with the opinions of people because
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: their opinions are change about you. They'll they'll say things.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, some people will be hurtful for no reason
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: and you'll be trying to figure out why. Man, let
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: them have it all, let them work with whatever they
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: got to work with. At the end of the day,
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: if I know myself, I'm good with me. And that's
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: where that's when you start living when you're good with you.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: And this version of you right now is that you're
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: finally okay with Jay. And that is what's blessing so
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: many people. Is you okay with you? Because there was
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: seasons it was like, man, I'm not doing this and
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: I'm not doing that, and I just want this and
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: I want it. It was so much you all over
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: the place. But this season is so different because you
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: you finally smiling at Jay and doing the things that
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: make Jay feel complete and happy. Yes, sir, do you
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: do you? Yes? Sir?
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: I love you, man Man love you. Pop listen. In closing,
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: this has been, this is, this has been.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: I see oh man, I thank you. M hmm. What
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: does healing looks like? This is two? This question is twofold.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: What does healing look like for the church moving forward
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: at the state that we're in today, knowing that, as
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: you said earlier, church is not safe now? Or what
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: does reservation look like to getting church back to that
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: place to where it can be safe.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: It means being really aggressive with changing culture. Culture is
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: what we allow. Culture is what we don't say no
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: to and the things that we do say yes. Two.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: Culture is what we've allowed. We've built the culture that
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: we have to dismantle. And to be able to create
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: a safe place, you got to be intentional with the
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: conversation that you have, intentionally with the language, and we
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: got to step outside the box to learn the language
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: to help people feel relaxed enough to share their truth
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: and to be who they are as their journey and
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: not trying to jerk them along, but allowing them to
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: grow in grace. That's a culture because most of us
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: don't know how to be accepting without approving. I could
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: accept them without a proven I have to prove of everything.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: But you at least need to feel that acceptance. That's
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: step one to building the culture of acceptance and a
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: culture where we're not just trying to gather numbers. Numbers
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: will come when the place is safe, because you can't
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: create a safe place and people get healed in that
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: place and they not talk about it. Is that this
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: place is not like every other place because there's some
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: things we don't allow and it's like it's a no
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: judgment zone. There are no perfect people allowed. We realize
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: that where we are, uh, this is a space that
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: we're all growing. So you don't have to be so
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: defensive because we get it. Yeah, we've been there. Yeah exactly.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: And my last question, Bishop, what is healing means to
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: you or what is that for you? Like when you
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: think about that word of healing, what is that.
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: When I think about healing, I think about I think
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: about it. In twofold Jesus meets a man with a
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: hand and it says, stretch it for healing came while
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: he did something I think healing for me requires work
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: on our part, is that there's a word for our healing.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: There is somebody that can heal us, but there is
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: something that we got to do. And I think what
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: would happen if he didn't make an at tea to
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: stretch forth his hands. So what happens to us a
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: lot of times is that we're not making the attempt
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: to really see real healing, total complete completion, or us
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: being made absolutely brand new. I believe brand new as possible,
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: but they think brand new as possible. But there's a
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: work that's involved in it. I grew up in the
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: area God's gonna do it all. What if we're really
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: in the place. So we got to say, well, maybe
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: there's a responsibility on your part, and when you do
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: your part, you'll see the other side and the other side.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: The healing comes when you're willing to and as a
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: term that Jay used all time, put the work in.
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: You gotta put in the work and put that work in.
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: You know what we don't want to do. We don't
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: want to work. Now, we don't want to work. So
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: we'll throw scripture on you and say, you know, we're
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: saved by grades not by works because we don't want
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: to work. I don't want to work some things. You
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: just can't throw a word out there and think that
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: that's going to cover the fact that in order for
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: me to get this to this place of deliverance, I
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: got to be honest about where I am, and honesty
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: makes me feel naked, and I got to learn how
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: to benked and out of shame because nakedness makes us
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: a shame. Transparency makes us a shame. But you got
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: to create an atmosphere to where you could be transparent,
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: and you realize it's not for shame, it's for healing.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: They're go back to that statement. We love deliverance, but
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: not development. We love to have God. Man, you're more
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: open down than you ever been. You better talk to
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: somebody because a lot of what we thought was deliverance
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: was an emotional meltdown. You just had a breakdown in
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: front of us. I don't know that all and that
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: was the only goes You had a breakdown. So let's
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: talk to you. Maybe we need to train our author
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: counselors not to take you to another level in God,
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: but to take you to another level than yourself. After
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: you just had this experience because you had all these
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: thoughts flood your mind and you actually had this meltdown
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: in our presence. God is with us. God's trying to
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: take you on a journey now and not just give
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: you an experience. I appreciate the expression. I believe it
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: was the Holy Ghost, and I believe it was the
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: power of God. It is just that I can't leave
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: you where you are because if I do, I do
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: you a disservice. So who's going to train the church
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: on this next level? Because we train the people to
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: get you to the experience. Oh gosh, and then we said,
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: oh that was it. They had a moment. What are
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: we gonna do after the moment? So perhaps you need
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: to start telling the pastors that they needed to train
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: their people who to lead their people to or to
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: at least have us a mini session on saying now
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: what you're going on right now that you know might
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: be a little bit of psychost with that. How about that?
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: Go see somebody. I just think, and I'm not saying
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: that every situation is bad because I've cried and God
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: has met me, and I know that it was a real,
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: a real move of God. But also know that there
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: were feelings that were brought up of things that I
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: have never dealt with that nobody knew how to help
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: me through. I just think if the church is going
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: to be a healing place, that we're gonna have to
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: know how to deal with what we deal with because
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: we deal with it, but we leave with it undealt
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: because we ain't dealing with what we're dealing with. You're
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: dealing with what you think you're dealing with, but we
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: don't know what we're dealing with. And that's why your
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: ministry is so important to help us bring a balance
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: to where we are. So again, thank you, doctor Jay.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: That's the crip. Listen, man, this has been Oh man,
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: I don't even have the words.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: I'm going through my mind looking for a word, looking
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: for a word.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: I can't even grab one all.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Like I say, man, this is powerful, life changing and
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: transformative conversation with the Bishop Randy Borders, pastor Faith Harvest
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: Church in Shelby, North Carolina, and closing whether you're a
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: believer or not, if you're deciding to heal, it's going
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: to require you to go on a journey, and that
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: journey is going to be the journey of self discovery.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: You have to discover self. Discovering self is about not
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: just unpacking, but discovery of self is also the journey
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: of searching. When you're discovering something, you're searching. You gotta
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: be in search of the next version of you. So
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: often we hold to the story. I talk about this
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: often you gotta change the narrative. If you change the narrative,
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: the story itself will change. And some of you are
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: wanting to change, but you want to keep telling the
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: same story. And can I tell you something. Change is
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: both a process and an outcome. Change is both a
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: process and an outcome, and we sometimes get so caught
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: up in the outcome that we want. And I think
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: we just need to celebrate the process a little bit more,
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: because that's where the work is done. And if you're
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: wanting to truly heal, to truly make new, to truly restore,
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: to truly unveil a greater version of yourself, the person
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: who you were before the molestation, the person that you
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: were before the trauma, the true madic event before the abuse,
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: that before the betrayal, because we we all are up
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: when things happen traumatically, and the am is that this
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: will never happen again. I ain't gonna let nobody take
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: advantage of me. I'm not gonna And yes it's protected,
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: but can I tell you living in survival is not sustainable.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: It'll wear your nervous system down. It will wear your
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: nervous system down, and that will wear you down. I
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: don't know where you are, but I hope that wherever
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: you are you find the courage to go on your
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: own journey again, Mishel, Thank.
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: You man, thank you opportunity. This is listen.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: I told you we had to have you, we had
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: to have your wisdom because.
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: I want the world to know where you are. Thank you, sir.
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: That's important.
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: I think you sitting on this couch and speaking to
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: this audience, they need to know who you were. Not
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: just those who get to hear your Sunday, but people
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: who would never drive the show, who would never know
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: who you are, but today they get to hear your wisdom.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: And then thank you, saying with absolutely again, I am
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: doctor J.
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: Barnett.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: This has been another phenomenal, powerful.
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: Episode and just here with doctor J.
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: And as always, healing is a journey and wholeness is
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: the destination. Until next time, it do the work Just
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: Here with Doctor J, a production of The Black Effect
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: Podcast Network. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: and you can follow me at King J. Barnett on
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: Instagram and x and follow us on YouTube.
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: Just Here, Doctor J.