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How to Make a Career Pivot Without Losing Yourself · Loud & Lifted

0:00
Pivoting sounds exciting when you say it after
0:02
the fact. You left the job, started the business,
0:05
changed industries, finally went after that thing
0:08
you've been thinking about for years. But while
0:11
you're actually living it, it can feel messy,
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uncertain, and honestly, a little terrifying.
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I know firsthand, over the past year and a half,
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I've experienced the highs of building something
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new in the moments when I've questioned whether
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I should just throw in the towel and go find
0:24
another corporate job. In this episode, I'm talking
0:27
with Trish Barber, author of Why Women Pivot,
0:29
about what it really takes to make a change,
0:32
whether the pivot is your choice or one you never
0:34
saw coming. We talk about rebuilding your identity
0:37
beyond the title, discovering what actually energizes
0:40
you, owning your story, and surrounding yourself
0:42
with the people who will challenge, encourage,
0:45
and guide you through what comes next. Because
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a pivot isn't just one brave decision. It's a
0:50
process. And you do not have to have every part
0:53
of it figured out. before you begin. Welcome
0:56
to loud and lifted Trish. Thank you so much for
0:59
being here. Thank you for having me. I'm super
1:02
excited about this. Yeah, so this is a very fun
1:05
topic to talk about. And maybe we glamorize the
1:08
ideas of pivoting, right? But there's a lot that
1:11
goes into it, so much that you've literally written
1:13
a book. about this, which I love so much. So
1:18
we're going to get into that pivoting isn't always
1:20
sunshine and roses and this glamorous thing,
1:23
right? There's a lot of emotional and mental
1:25
pieces that go through this. But before we get
1:27
into that part, the messy part, let's start at
1:30
the very beginning. Why do women pivot and why
1:34
does it seem like we're talking about this so
1:36
much more right now? Well, COVID kind of was
1:39
a catalyst for a lot of a lot of pivots. But
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I mean, the reality is, is that we're the ones
1:46
who have children. We're the ones who take care
1:49
of our families often. We're the ones who carry
1:52
the mental load associated with managing families.
1:56
And so the reality is, is that that stuff takes
2:00
its toll and opportunities are either made available
2:04
for women that meet their circumstances and their
2:08
needs or they're not. And there is just a lot
2:12
of reason why women have to and frankly conditions
2:16
associated with women who are making pivots.
2:19
If you're leaving on maternity leave, you're
2:22
starting and stopping your career for a temporary
2:25
period of time. And the reality of you coming
2:27
back, there are consequences associated with
2:30
that. And as much as we have come a long way,
2:34
and there are a lot of great reasons why companies
2:38
are doing that so much better than they used
2:40
to, there are penalties that women pay for these
2:44
pauses that we have to make. And so we're pivoting
2:50
so that we can find the opportunities we're looking
2:52
for given the circumstances that we're dealing
2:55
with. You know, it's funny, I'm showing my age
2:57
when I say this, but, you know, the whole having
3:00
babies, that was 18, 15 years ago for me, and
3:04
you're right, when I go back to that time of
3:06
how your priorities shift and how you're managing
3:09
work and the whole juggling. And at that time,
3:12
I'm being like, I knew I always wanted to work.
3:14
I knew that was my thing to do, but I never thought
3:16
that there was other opportunities back then,
3:18
right? Like, and it's funny how 10, 15 years,
3:22
women are starting to realize like, wait, I don't
3:23
have to deal with this. I don't have to deal
3:26
with this eight to five grind and the constant
3:29
corporate piece of it. So it's funny how I've
3:31
been so focused on that. I'm in my 40s. You know,
3:34
what does pivoting look like for me now? And
3:36
we'll get into that a little bit, but you're
3:38
right. That first sort of flag that people start
3:40
to raise is when they have babies. Yep. Yeah,
3:45
and many of us are caring for elderly parents
3:49
or, you know, they're just circumstances. And
3:53
women, I think there's enough research out there
3:56
to suggest that women are carrying a lot of the
3:58
mental load that goes along with that. And so
4:00
I don't know about you, but a lot of the women
4:03
that I know don't want to miss out on some of
4:07
those things. So as much as they understand that
4:11
there may be penalties associated with it, you
4:13
take that and you make changes accordingly. And
4:18
why do you think that is? And maybe, again, it's
4:20
my age that it seems like women are just less
4:22
tolerant of not being able to have that ability
4:26
to focus on what they think is most important.
4:29
So is it just me and my age of feeling like women
4:31
in their 40s are sort of like, you know what?
4:33
I'm leaving corporate. I'm leaving my government
4:35
job or whatever it is. And I'm going to pivot.
4:37
So I don't know if you're seeing that or that's
4:39
just the little world I'm living in currently.
4:41
No. It's funny because I'm probably, my kids
4:47
are 30, 28, and 23. And so I'm definitely at
4:53
the further end of the spectrum. And I'm even
4:57
pivoting now, finding myself kind of asking a
4:59
lot of questions about, well, what do I want
5:01
to do next? Because my kids are having children.
5:05
I want to see my grandbabies. But I still want
5:08
to engage in my career. And so I don't think
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the good news bad news ladies is that it doesn't
5:14
end. It kind of never ends, but that just means
5:19
that I think we all get better at it as we go
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too. That's such a great point. It's not like
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you had to pivot when you had kids or it has
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to be, let's call it middle career, but it can
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be at any point, even if you're towards retirement
5:32
age or maybe if you are retiring, there's still
5:34
that opportunity to pivot. There's not like a
5:37
age or a time limit on it. That's so true. I
5:41
love that. Besides the pivot of, hey, I decided
5:45
I'm fed up with this, I don't want to be in this
5:46
situation, what about the other one when all
5:48
of a sudden, surprise, our company downsizes,
5:52
we're let go and we're sitting there being like,
5:54
holy shit, what are we doing next? Yeah. I have
5:58
been on both ends of that spectrum. I've been
6:02
part of companies that had to make some of those
6:04
hard decisions and then I've also been you know,
6:07
one of the people who was impacted by that. And
6:11
that is the current reality. I mean, that is
6:14
where we all are now. So I think that and frankly,
6:19
I live outside of Washington, D .C. and the current
6:23
market around here is there's a lot of people
6:27
out of work who were government employees and
6:30
are now out of work and are having to rethink
6:32
their career and having you know, government
6:35
experience and translating that into private
6:37
sector experience is really challenging. As much
6:44
as we say it's an opportunity, I know that sounds
6:47
trite to the people that are out there looking,
6:49
but the reality is is that it is an opportunity
6:52
and that inflection or those self -discovery
6:56
questions that once you go through that emotional
6:59
cycle, which is real, right? That whole emotional
7:02
cycle that happens once you are impacted by a
7:06
downsizing. then you get to ask yourself some
7:10
self -discovery questions that help you really
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think about what you want to change and what
7:17
opportunities you want to take advantage of.
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And some of those discovery questions have to
7:23
do with things like what energizes you and what
7:26
drains you and what kinds of things have people...
7:30
said to you or asked for your help with in the
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past, what do you receive compliments about from
7:36
other people like, oh, you're so organized or
7:39
oh, you're so good at conveying information or
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whatever that is, like, you know, synthesizing
7:45
at taking inventory on a lot of that stuff and
7:48
synthesizing it and then figuring out where where
7:51
to take it from there helps you craft a thing
7:54
that looks more like more of what energizes you,
7:59
less of what drains you. And it's a process and
8:03
it's hard and it's emotional, but it's a good,
8:07
you come out the other end, I think a little
8:09
better for it. No, that's so important. And that's
8:12
the beginning of this roadmap, right? If you
8:14
have to pivot by force or by choice, In the beginning,
8:18
especially if it's by choice, you're like, yeah,
8:19
let's go. This is exciting. This is something
8:22
new. But you have to prepare for it. And I love
8:25
that idea of having that discovery conversation
8:28
with yourself. And I mean, do you write this
8:31
stuff down? This doesn't have to be a whiteboard
8:32
session, right? But how do you make sure you're
8:35
being honest and fair with yourself? Because
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a lot of times we want to minimize, especially
8:40
if this was a forced pivot, right? You're feeling
8:42
down. You're feeling like you aren't able to
8:45
contribute or whatever. So how do you make sure
8:48
that you really have that honest conversation?
8:50
And do we talk to other people too? Like, how
8:52
do we just make sure that discovery is really
8:53
important? Yeah, I think networking is such an
8:57
important part of this. And I, as someone who
9:00
pivoted from the private sector into government
9:04
adjacent client work, I had to learn how to talk
9:10
to those kinds of people and I needed to learn
9:14
how to be in the spaces where those kinds of
9:16
people were and so networking became a big part
9:20
of it for me and there was a whole vocabulary
9:23
that comes with getting involved in a new industry
9:27
or in a new sector and so doing some discovery
9:32
as an entrepreneur, you know, this is very much
9:35
an entrepreneurial principle that applies here,
9:38
is that you're constantly doing customer discovery
9:41
and talking to customers to find out what problem
9:45
they're having so that you can think of how to
9:47
solve the problem. It's the same thing when you're
9:50
going through this process of asking yourself
9:53
or asking people in that industry questions about
9:57
where opportunities are, what struggles are top
10:03
of mind, what are priorities in that particular
10:05
industry, so that you know where you can potentially
10:09
contribute. So you're taking that list that you,
10:12
the self -discovery list that you created and
10:15
comparing it to the list or the things you're
10:18
learning and having discovery conversations,
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and you're finding where those intersection points
10:24
may be and where you may be able to have. Oh,
10:28
okay. That makes sense. And it's so funny as
10:31
a background as a marketing person, I feel like
10:33
this is like a product launch, right? Like it's
10:36
knowing who you are, what you're good at, the
10:38
strengths of the brand, which is yourself, knowing
10:41
what the customer or the industry expectations
10:44
is and matching that. So I think a lot of people,
10:48
even if you're not marketing, you can relate
10:50
to that when you launch something new at your
10:52
company is making sure that matches. And it's
10:54
doing that for yourself, which is kind of like,
10:56
Oh, wait, that makes sense. Well, that whole
10:59
topic of personal branding is so top of mind
11:02
right now. And that means so many different things
11:05
to so many different people. A lot of people
11:07
think it means I have to be posting on social
11:09
media all the time. But the reality is that,
11:12
and this is where I'll show my age, it used to
11:16
be you didn't have a personal brand. You had
11:18
a company brand and you were, you know, toeing
11:21
the company brand line now that we're all sort
11:25
of leashed to develop our own personal brand,
11:28
everyone's really confused about how to do that
11:30
and what that really means. I think if I were
11:33
to give anyone advice about that, what I would
11:36
say is that think about the things that you want
11:39
to convey about what you're doing, what you're
11:42
thinking about, what you find important. And
11:46
anything that you would post or get involved
11:50
in should align with those values. And so any
11:55
social media, if you choose to do it, great.
11:57
If you don't choose to do it, great. But the
11:59
places you show up to network should align. The
12:02
places that you choose to or the kinds of social
12:06
media posts that you do should align. The kinds
12:09
of things you're reading should align because
12:11
then you'll be in a much better position to be
12:14
able to talk about them. That's great advice.
12:17
Whether you're looking for a job this week or
12:20
maybe it's years down the road, but just building
12:22
that brand for yourself is so important. You're
12:25
so right. Many of us get connected to our company
12:28
and that we think is our brand or our title.
12:31
You get really fixated on a title. I felt like
12:35
I was going to have this identity crisis when
12:37
I left a CEO job that it was very visible. I'm
12:40
like, well, now what? I don't have the title
12:43
or the company association. You learn what was
12:47
transactional and what's real but you start to
12:49
build on like what already existed that like
12:50
no You're a person people care about other people
12:53
but it was getting really intentional like, okay,
12:55
who am I? What am I doing to your point? Like
12:58
what's the need out there? And you know my pivot
13:00
the last year and a half has been a lot of trial
13:02
and error, right? Like it's not like I decided
13:05
30 days into it. Here's my plan. Here's what
13:08
I'm doing. Let's go It's been this up -and -down
13:11
roller coaster of sometimes I'm like, whoa, this
13:13
is amazing other days. I'm like Oh, my God, maybe
13:16
I should go get a full -time corporate job, right?
13:18
Like, it's not perfect. Yeah, no. And, you know,
13:22
you're raising sort of the whole reason or one
13:25
of the reasons why I decided I wanted to write
13:27
this book is that it's never perfect, right?
13:31
Like, I often sort of… my own worst critic, right?
13:37
So you're inclined to find out or figure out
13:41
all the reasons why this didn't work the way
13:43
you wanted it to work. But the reality is, is
13:45
that trial and error and doing a little bit of
13:49
exploration is all part of it and giving yourself
13:52
grace as part of that is all part of it too.
13:56
So what is part of that journey? We're kind of
13:58
touching on that. We make the decision, you're
13:59
pivoting, you're going to become an entrepreneur,
14:01
you're going to do your own thing. And then we've
14:03
done the discovery, we're talking turnout, we're
14:06
building that out and what the need is out there.
14:08
But then what do we do? So I am in Virginia,
14:13
and there's a whole entrepreneur ecosystem in
14:16
the state of Virginia. But regardless of whether
14:18
you're in Virginia or not, there's a whole entrepreneur
14:20
ecosystem in whatever state you're in. Some of
14:23
it is more robust in some places than others.
14:26
But if entrepreneurship is a goal, I think, you
14:30
know, trying to understand and identify, there's
14:33
sort of five big things that you have to think
14:36
about. There's validating a market. There's creating
14:40
a team, there's creating an MVP or a minimum
14:43
viable product, there's finding partners or funding
14:49
opportunities, and then there's developing a
14:52
pipeline and traction. So all of those things
14:55
are part of the journey. And part of the stuff
14:59
that we all have to think about if we're going
15:01
to be entrepreneurs, you go through those processes
15:03
and the entrepreneur ecosystem in your state
15:07
will most likely the Small Business Development
15:10
Association is usually the federal organization
15:14
that funds some of the state level stuff. So
15:16
I would start with the SBDC and then look for
15:21
those opportunities in your state. And they're
15:23
often free programs that you can take advantage
15:26
of. Interesting. That's great. Well, and I was
15:29
thinking, too, when we were talking a point or
15:31
two earlier about how, even if you're in a corporate
15:34
job, government, whatever it is, and we all have
15:36
those seasons of the good and the bad, sometimes
15:39
you love your job, some days you come home and
15:40
you're like, why am I doing this? So how, before
15:43
we do make that leap, I'll take a step back,
15:45
how do we know, like, look, this isn't just a
15:47
season, like, how do we know that we really need
15:50
a pivot? You know, I think you know in your heart,
15:55
maybe before you even admit it out loud to yourself,
16:00
you probably kind of know that something doesn't
16:02
feel right. Something is not lining up for me
16:07
now. I shouldn't have to work this hard or these
16:10
physical symptoms I'm feeling shouldn't be there.
16:15
Or I talked to a woman at one point who was having
16:18
a lot of issues. literally vomiting at some points
16:23
during the day because she was so stressed out
16:26
by trying to juggle it all. So, I mean, regardless
16:29
of what your symptoms, you kind of know in your
16:31
heart that that there's something, an itch that
16:34
you kind of need to scratch. And I think at some
16:38
point something pushes. pushes you over the edge,
16:41
whether it's, okay, I am definitely not making
16:45
enough money, or I am definitely missing too
16:49
much time with my kids, or I am definitely not
16:52
getting the opportunities that I'm seeking. That's
16:56
when you kind of know it's time to make, but
17:00
the point you made before, Betsy, I really want
17:03
to come back to, and that was the one of it takes
17:06
some time to make this all happen. And you're
17:10
raising that now as an issue, okay, when do you
17:13
throw up your hands and say you're fed up? But
17:14
it also takes some time to tee yourself up for
17:19
success. And so that idea of personal, back to
17:23
that idea of personal branding, like that's not
17:25
something that happens overnight. The decision
17:28
to pivot doesn't happen overnight either. And
17:32
so as long as you're doing some work along the
17:35
way to align yourself with the kinds of things
17:38
that you're Sometimes you don't even know why,
17:41
right, that you're attracted to them, but you're
17:44
exploring and you just kind of have to let some
17:47
of that exploration happen. And then eventually
17:51
it starts to come together. Yeah, that's so true.
17:55
And I think back to, I was probably a couple
17:57
of months out of my past job and I had coffee
18:00
with a woman who, same thing, left big corporate
18:02
job, started her own thing. She does like professional
18:05
development coaching. So I met with her. She
18:07
had been on her own for a couple years now. And
18:10
I was kind of in the panic mode of, I don't have
18:13
this figured out. I'm not moving forward. I don't
18:15
know what to do. And she was like, you need to
18:18
be patient. She's like, this doesn't happen overnight.
18:21
Yes, you've made a decision. Yes, you think or
18:23
thought you have a plan. And that's great. But
18:26
you're not going to be firing in all cylinders
18:28
in six months. And I was like, well, I'm not
18:30
patient. And she's like, welcome. No, and many
18:34
of us aren't. And it's a super frustrating process
18:39
that is a reality of it. That's the hard part.
18:42
Yeah. And that roller coaster continues. I mean,
18:44
a few months ago, I was like, I've gotten everything
18:47
figured out for the most part, right? I have
18:49
the right cadence. I have the right business
18:50
mix. And then all of a sudden, I lose a big client.
18:53
And then I'm like, oh my gosh, that was half
18:55
of my revenue. Well, now what do I do? Do I throw
18:57
in the towel? And I've had this panic. It's like
19:00
this high on the top of the roller coaster. And
19:02
then you come plummeting down. And it was like,
19:04
OK, just chill. We'll figure this out. But we
19:08
make pivoting and doing your own thing sound
19:09
very glamorous. And there's parts that are, but
19:11
like that. That roller coaster and being on your
19:14
own is very different that from somebody who
19:16
spent 20 some years in corporate organizations
19:19
where you could, I don't want to say hide behind
19:21
a paycheck, the paycheck could always go away,
19:23
but it was more stable than when you're on your
19:27
own. So I think it's really important to be transparent
19:30
about that. what that really looks like. Well,
19:33
even doing little things, this was a little thing
19:35
that a coach of mine suggested that I do when
19:38
I would get down on myself and things weren't
19:41
happening fast enough. And she was like saying,
19:45
well, what did happen this week that was positive?
19:49
I was actually able to say, come up with a couple
19:53
of examples, and she's like, why don't you try
19:55
to, if you're a journaler, try writing that down,
19:58
try to do, and it actually turned into a habit
20:01
of mine. keep a notebook all the time on my desk.
20:08
And I, at the end of the day, would just make
20:10
a point of writing down and highlighting the
20:13
thing that went really well that day for me.
20:17
And then when I flip back through my notebook,
20:20
I actually see the highlighted stuff. And I'm
20:22
like, oh yeah, okay, I guess I did accomplish
20:24
something. In the grand scheme of things, sometimes
20:27
those two steps forward, one step. back is really
20:32
frustrating. But then when you see some of the
20:35
fruits of that in small pieces, that makes a
20:37
big difference. Oh, I love that. And that has
20:40
come up on other episodes where, you know, call
20:42
it your gratitude journal, your wins journal.
20:44
I've talked about a victory folder, but we're
20:47
all so busy. We're moving so quickly and it's
20:49
easy to get. fixated on the things that aren't
20:51
going right, but having that list of like, hey,
20:53
this is where I kicked butt. These are the things
20:55
I did. It just helps to, one, build confidence,
20:58
which is important, and two, just helps you to
21:00
keep that optimistic move forward. Let's solve
21:02
the problem type of approach. So I love that
21:05
you mentioned that. So let's talk about the other
21:09
piece of this is owning the story. So whether
21:11
it was a forced or choice pivot, people like
21:14
to talk and have lots of opinion of what are
21:16
you doing and why did you leave that? So how
21:18
do we own our story when we pivot? Yeah, so having
21:22
your pivot story straight also takes a little
21:25
time. But the tone of it needs to be confident
21:30
and forward -looking and curious and you don't
21:36
have all of the answers. That sort of tone I
21:39
think is really important. I think that the best
21:43
advice I would give for that is that it can't
21:47
sound wounded. So if you are a person who had
21:50
just lost a job, saying, you know, I'm out of
21:54
work is not the same as I'm learning how to apply
21:57
my skills in XYZ thing. to this industry, and
22:03
I'm wondering if you can spend a couple minutes
22:06
with me talking about, or giving me feedback
22:09
on that. So I think that, and that is obviously
22:14
in the form of a question to somebody that you're
22:17
doing some discovery with, but you're. Pivot
22:20
story can be I'm learning how to apply my 25
22:25
years of experience in XYZ to this industry and
22:29
I'm out there networking and talking to companies
22:32
about it now. And that's a lot more positive
22:36
than I lost my job and I'm not really sure what
22:38
I'm going to do now, right? Well, it's funny
22:41
that you say that. I have a coaching client that
22:43
I'm working with and she's been in marketing
22:45
type roles for like 10, 15 years. She's in her
22:49
30s and restructure, she lost her job and she
22:52
knew it was coming. So she started to prepare
22:54
and plan. And one of the first things we did
22:57
was she wanted to pivot into more of like a community
23:01
relations. nonprofit type of world relationships.
23:05
She had pieces of that in her previous job, but
23:08
it was not her whole job. So we spent a lot of
23:11
time like talking through the talking points
23:13
and it wasn't contrived or wasn't fake. It was
23:16
pulling out what she really had. And then being
23:18
intentional with how was her resume structured?
23:21
What was her LinkedIn post when she announced
23:23
on LinkedIn that she was looking for her next
23:24
opportunity? It was, and she's a very positive.
23:27
like optimistic outgoing person and that came
23:30
through in her post like, hey, I'm so excited.
23:32
I'm looking for my next opportunity where I can
23:35
utilize these skills and help a company do X,
23:37
Y, and Z. And, you know, right away people were
23:40
reaching out to her to help connect the dots
23:42
and nobody was ever like, Oh my God, what happened?
23:44
I mean, maybe people ask that behind the scenes.
23:47
But, you know, she positioned this in such a
23:49
positive opportunity, like, let's go. And she
23:52
is very excited, right? Like, of course, it's
23:54
very scary at first. But now she's like, this
23:57
is my opportunity. I've been wanting to do something
23:59
like this for years. And now I've maybe she was
24:02
pushed, right? Maybe she wasn't ready. But she
24:05
has an opportunity now to pivot and control that
24:08
story. Yep. Yeah. Controlling the story, I think,
24:13
is a little bit of what we're saying here, but
24:16
not in a way that makes it sound like you're
24:18
embarrassed or that there's anything wrong with
24:22
or unusual about the circumstances you're finding
24:25
yourself in. But what's the bright side of that?
24:27
Where are you taking it? And that's the part
24:29
of the story that you have to think about. Absolutely.
24:32
And I think that even ties if it's a choice and
24:35
you had a big title at a corporate job and It
24:38
could be your own friends and family, right?
24:40
Who are like, what are you doing? Why would you
24:41
leave that? big paycheck that was stable. I mean,
24:44
it's that part of it too, especially if you're
24:47
a little vague on what you're doing, then people
24:49
question like, why would you walk away from that?
24:51
Yes, you're saying all the right things, but
24:53
I do think to just tone and picking yourself
24:57
up by your bootstraps a little bit each day to
24:59
make sure that you have that story. And the story
25:04
will evolve, right? That's kind of part of it
25:07
too, is the story evolves, but the positive side
25:11
of where you want to go is what you should be
25:14
weaving into that pivot story. I love that. So
25:17
for the woman who's listening to this and knows
25:19
something has to change but is scared or thinks
25:22
it's too late, we already identified it's never
25:24
too late, right? What's the one thing that you
25:28
want her to hear? I had someone said to me the
25:32
words personal advisory board at some point and
25:35
I was like, What is a personal advisory board?
25:39
But the whole concept was so amazing to me. And
25:42
I immediately, for people who have formal mentors
25:46
or have had mentors in their career, you kind
25:49
of, you have those people already in your orbit.
25:52
But the reality is, is not everyone does. Not
25:54
everyone's exposed to those kinds of programs.
25:57
Not everyone has mentors and advisors. My point
26:01
is that it's OK for you to surround yourself
26:04
with some of the people that you choose and start
26:08
your own personal advisory board. And that needs
26:10
to include somebody who's going to challenge
26:13
you. It needs to include somebody who's going
26:16
to be your cheerleader and root for you. It needs
26:19
to include somebody who's going to ask you a
26:21
lot of questions so that you can kind of get
26:24
your your story straight. And it just needs to
26:28
include a lot of different kinds of personality.
26:30
because that is a journey, the whole thing is
26:32
a journey, and you're gonna need all of those
26:34
different kind of people as you go through it.
26:37
So my advice is to start thinking about who do
26:40
you have on your personal advisory board? It's
26:42
not necessarily, it's certainly not a paid position,
26:46
right? To be your personal advisory board. Maybe
26:49
a coffee, yes, absolutely. And I think, but just...
26:55
reaching out to people and saying, this is what
26:58
I'm doing. This is where I'm going. You have
27:02
always been this to me. I would love to use you
27:08
as a sounding board. And the reality is people
27:10
will... help. You know what it's like when something
27:15
happens to someone, you always say, okay, let
27:17
me know what I can do. But the reality is, if
27:19
you tell them what you want them to do, then
27:23
you actually usually get better results. So helping
27:26
your personal advisory board know what role you
27:30
want them to play is really helpful. And you
27:34
can tell them, I want you to challenge me. I
27:37
want you to be the person who makes me feel better
27:40
and has coffee with me once a month. I want you
27:42
to be the person who asks me questions and, you
27:48
know, lets me role play with you, whatever that
27:50
may be. But those are the kind of people that
27:53
you need to surround yourself with. And that
27:55
was breakthrough for me. Anybody who doesn't
27:58
like asking for help. I'm sure. I appreciate
28:00
it. Right. You talk about a personal advisory
28:02
board, and I use the same concept. I call it
28:04
a circle. And who's in your circle? And it's
28:06
so funny, as you were saying that, I say the
28:08
same thing. A truth teller, a connector, a cheerleader,
28:11
right? So it all is around that thing of no one's
28:14
doing this alone. We need people to give us different
28:17
perspectives, sometimes to build us up, sometimes
28:19
to push us. But the personal advisory board is
28:21
such a great title for that. And I think so often,
28:25
we get hung up on mentors, which are important
28:27
100%. But it's that advisory board that you might
28:31
talk to once or twice a year, but who's going
28:33
to give you that feedback that you can shoot
28:34
an email to whatever it is to have that relationship,
28:38
but will give you who knows who you are and knows
28:40
your strengths. So I love I love telling that
28:43
a perfect advisory board and I 100 % agree. You
28:46
need to have people with different perspectives,
28:49
different ages, industries, right? Like there's
28:51
always that piece of it. The ages thing is a
28:53
big one, I think right now, because as a person
28:57
who is older but has been involved in technology,
29:02
I mean, I don't know about you, but I'm struggling
29:04
to keep up in this AI environment. And while
29:08
I think that AI offers a huge opportunity, having
29:12
young people on my personal advisory board to
29:16
say, is this how you... use this? Would you do
29:19
it this way? Show me how you've done it." So
29:23
having young people in that circle is absolutely
29:27
an important one. That's so interesting that
29:29
you're saying as somebody who is older that you
29:32
would have younger people a different experience,
29:34
but they're going to bring a different perspective.
29:36
So that's such a great point because I think
29:38
so often, especially with mentors, we think older,
29:40
somebody with more experience. It just has to
29:42
be different experience. It doesn't have to be
29:45
more. So that's a great point. Oh, that's awesome.
29:48
So this has been so much great advice on why
29:51
we do it, how we do it, that roadmap. Is there
29:54
any other final takeaway that you think women
29:56
who are thinking about pivoting or just pivoted
29:59
need to know? Besides reading your book, obviously,
30:01
which we'll put in the show notes. We just kind
30:11
of touched on this idea of women being comfortable
30:13
asking for help and men do this all the time
30:16
always have They use their networks to find their
30:20
next client to find their next job We as as women
30:24
tend not to be as comfortable doing that not
30:26
everything should be transactional and that's
30:29
that's absolutely not what I'm saying, but a
30:33
big thing that I wanted to convey in my book
30:36
was that as a woman who in corporate environments,
30:42
most of my mentors and the people I turned to
30:45
were men. Most of the women that I had in my
30:49
network were counter examples for me. And so
30:53
I do think that in this environment, it's very
30:57
important that we are out there taking care of
30:59
each other because programs are being eliminated,
31:02
opportunities are starting to disappear, and
31:05
who better than us to take care of other women
31:10
who are on the struggle bus with us and trying
31:14
to figure all of this out. So I would just encourage
31:17
people to think twice about taking a woman under
31:22
your wing and finding a way to support them and
31:27
doing something positive for women. Every week,
31:31
I think, is something that will come back and
31:34
pay you in spades. Oh, I love that. That's so
31:37
true and such amazing advice. Trish, thank you
31:39
so much for being here. We will link your book.
31:42
We appreciate you being part of Loud and Lifted.
31:44
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it, Betsy.
31:46
Have a great one. What I appreciated most about
31:48
this conversation is the reminder that pivoting
31:51
isn't a straight line. You can feel completely
31:54
confident one week and question every decision
31:56
you've made the next. That doesn't mean pivoting
31:59
is failing. It means you're still building, learning,
32:02
and figuring out what fits. I also love Trisha's
32:05
idea of creating a personal advisory board, the
32:08
people who will cheer you, challenge you, ask
32:10
the right questions, and help you see what you
32:12
might not be able to see on your own. Because
32:15
no matter what your next chapter looks like,
32:17
you should not have to navigate it alone. You
32:21
can find Trisha's book, Why Women Pivot, along
32:23
with more information about her in the show notes.
32:25
And if this episode made you think of a woman
32:27
who's in the middle of her own pivot, send it
32:29
to her. She may need the reminder that it's not
32:31
too late and she does not have to have it all
32:34
figured out just yet or do it alone. Until next
32:38
time, stay loud and stay lifted.