Latest / Why We Do What We Do / American Sign Language pt. 1

Transcript

American Sign Language pt. 1 · Why We Do What We Do

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You're listening to Why we do what we do? Welcome
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: to Why we do what we do. I am your
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: signing host, Abraham.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: And I'm your host Shane. That was me signing saying
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: what I was describing what it was. If you couldn't tell.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: The signing so fast it created a slight breeze. Yes, Yes,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: we are a psychology the podcast. We are psychology podcast.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: We talk about the things that humans and non human
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: animals do, and sometimes we talk about the ways that
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: they talk to each other. Arguably we talk about that
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: the most, but that's one of the things we're doing today.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: And if you're joining us for the first time, then welcome.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: We are so happy to have you here. If you're
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: joining us for more than the first time, then welcome back.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: We're glad that you continue to find us and hope
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: that you find in the things that we're creating and
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: at the very least learn something new, because that's what
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: we're we're trying to do over here as a podcast.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: But either way, if you like to support us, you
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: can join us on Patreon, leave us a rating and
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: a review, like subscribe, tell a friend, make a friend, subscribe,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: do other things. I forget I'll talk more about the
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: ways you can support us at the end of this discussion,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: and I think we're ready to dive into the fact
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: that it is July first, and that means that importantly
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: it is American Zoo Day.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: That certainly is. It is also blink on two day.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Love that been listening to a lot of blink lately.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: They're so great, Why is it blankwinity to day.
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  Speaker 2: Because it's the one hundred and eighty second day of
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: the year.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Oh, that makes a lot of sense.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: Thank you much for that.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is fun.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: I learned that today.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Wow. I guess
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: if you think of that one two is almost exactly
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: half a three hundred and sixty five, and.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: It's a made up number. They have no meaning behind it,
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: if you know. Blak way too cool. They were like,
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: why did you pick one a two? They're like, I
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: don't know, it sounded good.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: We just needed to have a number. Blink didn't work. Yep,
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: all right. It is Canada Day. Hooray, hooray.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: It is creative ice cream flavor Day. I saw a
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: Thanksgiving Turkey dinner ice cream flavor not too long ago. Huh,
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: it's stuffing and gravy and cranberry sauce in it.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, I have to write my head around that one.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: It is Early Bird Day.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: It is Early Bird Day. It's also ginger snap Day,
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: which is probably a better ice cream flavor than turkey dinner. Agreed.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: It is Second Half of the Year Day because it's
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: the second half of.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: The makes sense. It is Television Heritage Day.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: It is International Joke Day, the jokes that work no
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: matter what continent you're on.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's also alternative title for that is America Day,
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: because we are right now an international the international joke. Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: It's International Reggae Day.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: It is National Financial Freedom Day, bun.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: It is National Postal Workers Day.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: And similarly it is US Postage Stamp Day.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: And it is also zip code Day.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: I'm getting a lot about mail and postage as a
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: theme for today.
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  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: I means of code relevant and I think partially invented
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: for that reason, but I could be wrong.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: It is Clean Beaches Week.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: Very important, yes, and in line with our episode today.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: It is Helen Keller Blind Awareness Week.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Not deaf blind Awareness Week, nope, just.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Blind Awareness Week. When I looked, okay, which I was
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: like I was like, oh good, we're doing something about
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Helen Keller. And then it was blind awareness and I went,
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: wait a second, We're doing an ASL episode. That's what
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: are we doing here?
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  Speaker 1: Okay, well sure, and as National Prevention of Eye Injuries Awareness. Yeah, cool,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: it makes sense, I guess. Yeah, all right, Well, here
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  Speaker 1: we are in the last episode, which came out last week.
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  Speaker 1: I said something like, we would probably do an episode
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: on ASL in the future, and here we are in
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: the future.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: Look of that.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it just you know, when the meuse strikes you
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  Speaker 1: just you gotta you gotta lean in. So that's yeah,
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  Speaker 1: that's what happens.
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  Speaker 2: And here we are also Deaf people or people or
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: who are ut of hearing may not be listening to this,
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  Speaker 2: but the transcriptions provided by the podcast attribution systems have
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  Speaker 2: gotten really good, so perhaps they are reading, and we
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: hope that they are. Yeah, and we would love to
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  Speaker 2: hear or see from them if they want to reach
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: out to us and communicate.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, particularly because they'll know a lot more about this
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  Speaker 1: topic than we do, and so they might have some
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: helpful things to add. But but I do want you know,
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  Speaker 1: we'll do our best. I've did a lot to you know,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: set the set the context here, and I think there's
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: some really cool stuff to discuss. But yeah, I think
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  Speaker 1: that is what we have to say about that part
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  Speaker 1: of it. Are we ready to proceed with the rest
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: of the intro? I feel like I'm missing something.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: No, I think it's I think you did the whole
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: thing where it's like, reach out to us, email us,
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: share it with a friend, da da da dah. We'll
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: do that again at the end too. But I think
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: we're ready to dive in. I think we're feeling pretty good.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: All right, let's do it. Okay, Now, if you're listening,
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  Speaker 1: then you're going to hear what I say, and if
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: you're not, then you're not going to hear what I say.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: So asked. Saying if you're listening is a pointless sentence,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: and I don't know why I said it, but this
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: may come as a shock to you listeners for reasons
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: that make a lot of sense if you're paying attention
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: to the news. But the human species is actually one
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  Speaker 1: of the most cooperative species on the planet. They actually are,
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  Speaker 1: h I mean there are, I mean, arguably ants and
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  Speaker 1: bees are more cooperative. But we're up there, We're like
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  Speaker 1: among the most cooperative species. Despite our frequent murderous proclivities
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: and the aberrant mistakes that we make neglecting autocrats such
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: as Trump, we have developed a most remarkable tool which
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  Speaker 1: has engendered more progress and development than any other species
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  Speaker 1: has ever been able to accomplish as far as we
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  Speaker 1: have ever seen. And that is a robust language. That
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  Speaker 1: is this tool that we created that allows us to
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  Speaker 1: cooperate and remarkably speedy and effective ways.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and our to engage socially has resulted in development
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  Speaker 2: of some sort of language in every culture on the
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  Speaker 2: earth as far as we know, and likely even slightly
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  Speaker 2: predates modern Homo sapiens. But our language is almost an
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  Speaker 2: entirely sound based language, consisting of vocal manipulations like clicking, whistling, singing,
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  Speaker 2: and of course words. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: There are actually a lot of different ways that different
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  Speaker 1: cultures have communicated, and whistling, clicking, those are some of them.
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  Speaker 1: But those are all auditory ways of communicating, and an
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  Speaker 1: auditory language does have a lot of advantages and probably
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  Speaker 1: why it is essentially evolved as the dominant way that
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  Speaker 1: we communicate with each other. It can be effective at
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  Speaker 1: a distance, it is fast, it can be done in
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  Speaker 1: the dark, it requires very little energy, it can be
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  Speaker 1: done while using our hands and legs for other things.
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  Speaker 1: It's very easy using sound to make small variations that
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  Speaker 1: are detectable, that can have profoundly different meanings when we're
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  Speaker 1: saying things, and it's extremely easy for us to do like.
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  Speaker 1: That's a lot of advantages. Yeah, for how a communication
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  Speaker 1: system might develop is like all of those things, so
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  Speaker 1: likely for some or all of those reasons, and probably
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  Speaker 1: even more than the reasons I listed. An auditory based
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  Speaker 1: communication system is the one that develops pretty much globally
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  Speaker 1: across human cultures.
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  Speaker 2: Which is just really incredible. Yet, up to six babies
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  Speaker 2: are born deaf out of every one thousand berths each
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  Speaker 2: year according to WHO, the World Health Organization. Not an OWL.
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  Speaker 2: That was and that was not a question. That was
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  Speaker 2: a definitive statement. Yeah, and not according to WHO. According
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  Speaker 2: to WHO. Okay, for those of you are listening, I'm
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: sure that you know what I'm talking about. Anyway, despite
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  Speaker 2: having the same capacity for language, they will be unable
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  Speaker 2: to use sound to learn to communicate. But circumstances are
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: there and contingencies will find a way Without sound. The
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: ability and availability of communication is still present, so a
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  Speaker 2: visual form of communication evolved, manual signs.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, manual meeting with your hands. And so in this episode,
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  Speaker 1: we will disc us the history and general structure of
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: American sign language. Specifically, we'll get into some of the
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  Speaker 1: other sign languages that exist a little bit, and will
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  Speaker 1: also add some additional behavioral analysis to unpacking this communication system.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's get into the history a little bit,
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  Speaker 2: which I'm really excited to talk about because I think that,
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  Speaker 2: you know, the history of language is always so fascinating,
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  Speaker 2: like how word shape and form and how it becomes
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  Speaker 2: official and all that. So. Yeah, likely because most people
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  Speaker 2: were hearing, and most communication developed through hearing, it pretty
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  Speaker 2: much all social structure developed from language, and therefore all
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  Speaker 2: education was organized through language. Seemingly, most people couldn't see
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  Speaker 2: past the auditory nature of communication. This led them to
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  Speaker 2: believe that deaf people simply couldn't be part of the culture,
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  Speaker 2: couldn't communicate, and couldn't learn.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, so this idea that we had to use sound
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  Speaker 1: to communicate meant that a long time ago, people believed
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  Speaker 1: that if you couldn't access sound via your sensory organs,
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  Speaker 1: you couldn't learn, you couldn't think, you couldn't join society.
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  Speaker 1: To be clear, without the development of language, people do
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  Speaker 1: struggle to learn, socialize, or communicate at all. People who
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  Speaker 1: learned language later in life will even sometimes be able
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  Speaker 1: to articulate and report back on their experiences before learning language,
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  Speaker 1: and have described as this sort of dreamlike fog without
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  Speaker 1: meaning or understanding. So language is essential for cognition, but
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: due to the extremely frighteningly limited imagination of the people
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  Speaker 1: of antiquity, they didn't seem to realize for a very
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  Speaker 1: long time that speech is not essential for cognition, just
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  Speaker 1: communication and language, which did not necessarily require speech. You
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  Speaker 1: could still have communication and language without the auditory part
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  Speaker 1: of it. So, while they were correct that you need
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: communication and socialization to develop that like thinking in cognition
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: to develop the way that we see it develop, that
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  Speaker 1: most people, what they didn't understand is that you could
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  Speaker 1: do that without sound.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. So, throughout a lot of history, deff people faced
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: a wide range of discrimination issues, ranging from simply being
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  Speaker 2: left out to extreme oppression. It is actually only fairly
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: recently that laws and systems have been developed to ensure
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: more inclusive environments for deaf people and people who are
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: aret of hearing, and the deaf community more broadly, which,
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: by the way, I'm sure we'll talk about this, but
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  Speaker 2: has its own unique culture and cultural variables, and many
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  Speaker 2: folks that belong to the deaf community are very protective
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  Speaker 2: of their culture for the right reasons. It's it's incredibly fascinating.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's get into the history here of a
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: brief timeline of like what kind of things were set
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  Speaker 1: about and thought about with respect to deaf and heart
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: hearing people. So in one thousand BCE, Hebrew law provided
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: only limited rights to property and marriage to deaf people,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: and in three sixty BCE, Socrates express skepticism about the
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: intellectual capacity and ability of deaf people, claiming that they
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: were incapable of language and ideas, and three point fifty
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  Speaker 1: five BCE Aristotle said, quote those who are born deaf
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  Speaker 1: all become senseless and incapable of reason end quote. So
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: you can see there was a lot of I would
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: say critical, but it's more like unimaginative, uninspired, and incorrect
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  Speaker 1: ideas about deaf people many centuries ago.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's it's like you would think that
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  Speaker 2: somebody is so smart or who are loud it as
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: being so smart and being so like influential would have
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: a better a better view on that. But do you
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: ever have this experience, like, do you ever see Socrates?
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: The name Socrates written out and you immediately think so
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: Crates because of Bill and Ted's excellent Adventure.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: So so much.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Yes, we pretend to be smart on the show, and
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: that's what I think of when I think of Socrates.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: I don't ever go, oh, yeah, the philosopher. I go, no,
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  Speaker 2: it's so creates from Bill and Ted's excellent Adventure.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: I read that to myself as so Crates many times
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: while I was reading this one.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, did you ever see Did you ever see
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: the follow up, the sequel, Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey?
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: It was like mostly full of ads.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: All right, we're back. We've been talking about the history
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: of thoughts and opinions and bias against deaf people a
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: long time ago.
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  Speaker 2: Finally, in the fifteen hundreds, a Dutch humanist, Rudolph Agricola.
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  Speaker 2: He had the bright idea that maybe speech was separate
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  Speaker 2: from thought, and that deaf people could learn to communicate
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: through writing.
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  Speaker 1: This was further expanded in fifteen ninety one by a
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: German physician named Alberti. Just one name like.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: Share, like kind of share Madonna, Rihanna.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So Alberti wrote that speech and hearing
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: were separate functions and deaf people were perfectly capable of
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: learning and thought.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: I love that idea. It seems like I do this
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: thing where And I'm so glad you brought up like
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: the lack of imagination from the peoples of antiquity, because,
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: like I think about this, I'm like, this seems like
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: common sense now, yeah, right, Like we're like, yeah, of course,
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: of course a human would be able to keep dicate
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: in other ways and they could learn all these things.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: But like that, it's wild to think that I was
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: novel thought at some point.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it is very strange.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: So and not that not all that long ago, right, yeah. Now,
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  Speaker 2: In sixteen forty one, British physician John Bulwer published the
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: first books on Deaf Education and system of Communication using
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: hand gestures, after studying how gestures were used in other places,
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: in other cultures.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, but this does actually get to we've been describing
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: all these problems with how the society at large has
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: treated deaf people in the past. But to be fair,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: this egregious history of mistreatment and competence about how to
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: support and educate deaf people seems to be a largely
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Western slash European problem. What because I know because I
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: start looking around in other cultures and places in time,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: and it does seem like they thought about this very differently.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: So in Asia, deafness was sometimes treated with reverence, sometimes
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: with accommodations, and there were sometimes with social stigma. But
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: there was actually some evidence that there were some political value.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: They had some political value and deafness because people in
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: power often would like they would deliberately keep deaf assistance,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: and the reason is because they did have a system
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: of communicating with those assistants. But the assistants could not
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: overhear or share any secrets discussed in private meetings, and
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: so they were like, it's perfect because I can communicate
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: with them and they can help me, but they can't.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: They're not going to share any information that they that
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: is discussed about these political secrets, so we can trust them.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: There was a variety there. It wasn't like the best
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: place in the world to be for a deaf person,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: but they were still there was seen as having value
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: and were able to communicate in some ways.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, in Egypt and many other countries in Africa,
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: that people were included in communities and treated with dignitian respect.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: They were given similar equal opportunities and were even evidently
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: protected by some Egyptian laws.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so even even better in Egypt. In indigenous American cultures,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: deaf people were pretty much universally included in all things,
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: and they developed an early signing system that was adopted
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: across multiple tribes to include them in conversations and communication.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: So it actually appears from what I found that deaf
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: people never faced very much social discrimination in the American
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: indigenous cultures and tribes at all. Those people were just
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: they were just like, well, you're part of our tribe.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: We include you. We'll figure out a way to have
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: you participate in all the things that we're doing because
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: you're part of you're part of our tribe.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, dude, every every time, every time. I mean I
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: live in Florida, and I mean we you know, we
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: both live in different parts of the country, and like,
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: you know, there's different indigenous influence in both those places.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: But Florida's got such a huge indigenous influence and you
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: just learn every time I read about American indigenous cultures,
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: I'm just I just go, Oh, they had it figured out.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they had it.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Figured out on so many levels. Oh, they were treating
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: each other with respect on everything they were. They were
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: taking care of each other, like they won't be taking
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: care of the it, and they were taking care of
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: the land. I mean, it's I'm telling you, dude, like
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: it is. It's astounding, and it makes it all the
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: more tragic when you hear about like what white settlers did,
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Like I.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Mean, truly, it's ridiculous.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: Oh god, it's so frustrating. Anyway, I want to talk
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: about ron Burgundy for a second. So in the early
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: tenth century, the monks of Burgundy evidently developed an early
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: manual gesture system to communicate, so that they could communicate
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: while maintaining their vows of silence. I actually really love
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: that too. That's great and it makes perfect sense. It's
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: so practical. It was.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's like the vow was silence, not lack
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: of communication. So they yeah, gesture systems so they could communicate. Like, yeah,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: that made a lot of sense. Okay, So the atrocities
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: committed against deaf people was largely a Western problem, which
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: very much tracks with the rest of history. Sure, and
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: of course, even in some of the most progressive cultures,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: deafness was still treated as a problem to be fixed,
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: which does fall in line with the medical model of disability,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: rather than it being treated like a difference to be accommodated.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: And I would recommend you go see our episodes on disability,
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: which did a whole sweet on disability for an explanation
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: of the various models of disability to understand that the
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: different viewpoints about this a little bit better.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So, anyway, that's a long way of saying that
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: we're here talking about asl So we're gonna go ahead
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: and jump out a couple of centuries to eighteen sixteen,
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: when a deaf Frenchman named a Larent Clerk claik Claire Claire.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: I always I can never pronounce French words. I can't
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: get my throat to do the thing. So well, I'm
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: gonna say Lorent Clerk came to the US and teamed
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: up with the with an American educator named Thomas. His
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: name is worse Thomas Gala Day Gallo Day.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: I think is right. I think it is cleric and
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: Gala Galladay okay, good, okay, but yeah, he was an
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: American educator and Galaday apparently became interested in educating deaf
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: children when in grad school he met a young deaf
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: girl and noticed that she did not play with the
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: other kids, and he took it upon himself to teach her.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: He was like, well, I want to I want to
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: teach this girl to communicate so she can play too,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: And he would like draw her pictures and teach her
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: to name the pictures, and she quickly started learning and
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: picking up some communication skills. And they're like, whoa, what
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: is happening here? Like she's she's already like learning the
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: stuff super fast, and they were really impressed, and he
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: was like, this is really awesome. I want to keep
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: doing this.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So anyway, Galladay traveled to Europe to study the
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: education of the deaf, and there he met Laurent Clerk,
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: who was faculty at a school for the deaf where
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: they were teaching hand gestures or manual signs to teach
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: communication and then use that for education of deaf children.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: So Galaday persuaded Clerk to of course, I get all
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: the bullet points with both their names. Galladay persuaded Clerk
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: to a company and back to the States to help
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Galaday set up a school for the deaf.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Yep So in eighteen seventeen Mason Cogwell, he caused the father, you.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: Can talk to well Gala day you could come on.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: Yep, yep So Cottin's well he was the father of
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: that deaf girl that Galaday had taught. So Larentz Clerk,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Thomas Galaday and Mason Cogswell. They established the Asylum for
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: the Education and Instruction of the Deaf and Dumb later
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: renamed the American School for the Deaf.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: Much better name, much better name.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: And the sign language that they developed was based on
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: a combination because this was helped founded by cleric The
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: language that was developed was was based on French sign
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: language but also supplemented with Martha's Vineyard sign language and
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: some regional household signs that were around and gestures to
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: become the unique American sign language. Because you can imagine
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: that there was this there were pockets of communities before
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: there was widespread travel, before there was internet or telecommunications,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: and so they kind of had their own little systems
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: in these communities and there'd be all these regional variations
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: in some signs and some of them like wholly different
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: from each other. And then just as a quick aside,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: Martha's Vineyard Sign Language or MVSL was a language for
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: the deaf that was developed in the in the United
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: States in the early seventeen hundreds and it lasted until
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: about nineteen fifty two. Is when I saw that. It
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: sort of was They're like, well, would we have ASL,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: We'll just go ahead and use that, We'll.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: Use that instead. Yeah. So I think that's a lovely
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: history kind of leading up to where we're at now.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: And I think it's worth for those of you who
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: have never even seen or met somebody who speaks ASL,
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: which I'd be shocked if you hadn't, especially like our
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: behavior analytic community, like ASL is kind of like a
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: little bit embedded in there. Yeah, a little bit, not
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: a lot, a little bit, but I think it's worth
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: talking about how it works. So the first thing to
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: understand about ASL is that it's its own language, with
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: its own grammar and its own syntax, and like language,
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: it has accents, dialects, and regional variations. Also, like English,
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: there are words and signs in ASL that mean different
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: things in different context even while they are the same sign.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: So it is very similar in that regard, Like you're
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: going to see those types of because I've seen a
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: couple where it's like the word I can't remember what.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: I'm sure you have some examples, but like there are
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: certain words that are like when you sign it, you're like, yes,
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: this means this when you do this, but it means
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: this when you do that, like I mean, I know,
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: like even like something simple as like toilet and tuesday,
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: Like it's just positioning, it's not and it's the same
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: sign the hand, that same hand shape, but it's just
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: positioned differently.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, slightly different motions, slightly different positions. But then you
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: take like there are some signs that like they really
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: do mean very different things with the exact same sign,
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: and you just used context and you think of in English,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: you have homophones for example, like C and C are
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: you talking about the ocean or are you talking about
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: visual acuity right or visual stimulation? And like those are
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: spelled differently, But then you also have some that aren't
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: spelled differently that mean different things depending on how you
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: pronounce them. Well, it's take actually a good word, like
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: the word second second means a unit of time, but
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: it also means the second in a series, and so
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: they have different meanings. Now in ASL, those actually have
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: different signs, but in English are the same word, the
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: exact same word, but they mean different things into different contexts.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: So if I say hold on one second, them is
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: talking about the unit of versus I came in second place.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: That means I was right after first. Or you take
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: a word that you pronounced differently, but it's spelled the same.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: So like the word doze like multiple female deer, or
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: does as in the verb to do something, and they're
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: spelled exactly the same, but they're pronounced differently. And some
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: more example is letter like something you would mail to someone,
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: letter like a unit from the alphabet. So it's not
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: like this was unique to ASL. Is this very much
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: a common thing in language, particularly in English probably others.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: I don't speak other languages very well, but that's that's
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: a thing to consider here. And they talk about like
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: why there are some signs that mean they're the same
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: sign I mean different things in different contexts. Well, that's
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: how languages work. That we sometimes reuse them that way.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I I was thinking about this too.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: Like one example that came up was like AD and.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: AD, Okay, we're back. Yeah, So grammar syntax of ASL,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: and and understanding that like it is, it is a language,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: a complete and total language with its own grammar and syntax.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: The second thing to understand, which maybe actually should be
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: the first thing to understand, is that deaf people are
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: normal people. And I know this is a little bit
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: of an aside with respect to the language itself, but people
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: often ask these kind of bizarre questions of deaf people,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: like can you drive and can you read? Which why
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: wouldn't they be able to drive? Right, They're deaf, not blind.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: We mostly depend on our sense of scene and sight
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: for driving. And also why wouldn't they be able to read?
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: They probably read more than most people because they're not
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: really listening things to consume content, you know, they have
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: to read them anyway, So not only can they read,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: they probably read better than you.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: Do, right right, right? Yeah? And yes, many people who
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: are hard of hearing or death might learn some lip reading.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: That's also a thing that might come up. But only
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: about thirty percent of English can even be understood by
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: lip reading, which is barely anything and way too little
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: for effective communication. It is not incumbent upon them to
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: attempt to learn to read life if there is an
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: effective strategy to communicate, which is signing.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so understanding. Just like some important things about deaf people,
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: deaf culture, deaf community are some of these things, like,
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: don't assume that they should or could or have to
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: be able to read lips. They can communicate, don't assume
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: that they can't do most normal things that most people
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: can do. They just can't hear, right, And some of
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: them they can hear, it's just harder for them to
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: hear let's say a lot of hearing people, and that
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: the language that they do speak is a complete language
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: and it doesn't map on exactly with English. We'll come
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: back to that also.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: Too real quick, I realize we keep seeing hard of hearing,
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: and some people prefer hard of hearing, some people prefer
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: hearing impaired. So like there is also that piece too,
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: and I just realized that as we were kind of
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: talking about it, like there is it's a preference thing,
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: kind of like person with autism or autistic person, Like
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: you'll see something like that.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, perfect, Yeah, thank you think that is a good,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: very good catch. Yeah, I want to be as politically
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: correct as possible with respect to that terminology. So another
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: thing understanding about deaf people is they don't want your pity.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: These are people who are happy with rich, fulfilling lives.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: They often spend their entire lives never hearing anything, so
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: they don't they don't need your pity anymore than you
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: need their pity. Like they that's just the way that
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: they live their lives and they're fine with that, and
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: you can be fine with that too. So like it'd
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: be like if I if I met you for the
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: first time and I was like, really sorry about your
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: face that you look.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Like that's exactly what you must be the first time
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: we met, which is wild false. No, you were lovely
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: when we met in San Diego. No, but yeah, you're right,
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: like it it's a weird thing to be like, oh,
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry that you were born this way.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. Yeah, that's like saying like I'm sorry you
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: were born with dark skin. I'm like, oh hold on,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: no no, oh yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, we're
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: not sorry. People are born the way that they're born.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: That is a very stupid thing to try and say
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: and approach this like, people are who they are. You
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: can be sorry for the way you were born if
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: you on to, but like, don't feel that. That's not
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: how we approach other people.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they don't want that. They don't want that,
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: Like I mean, like you said, like the culture is
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: is rich and vibrant and unique and can be really interesting.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Like I had the lovely opportunity of working with the
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: local deaf community with some of my clients, and I
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: got to know some of the interpreters that were here
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: that were lovely. I got to learn about the schools
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: that we're here that exist that are specifically designed for them.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: Saint Augustine has a Florida School for Deaf and Blind
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: cool that is like really well designed and the campus
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: is beautiful. It's like right in the middle of downtown
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: Saint Augustine. And some of the first like the impact
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: of this of this school, it can't be it can't
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: be understated. They ended up because there were so many
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: folks I'm sorry overstated, sorry, like this is this ridiculous.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: But they were the first to get Starbucks on board
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: with having video cameras and their drive throughs, so that
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: and teaching their staff and their bristas to be able
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: to speak, as to be able to get people, to
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: be able to order their drinks and order their food. Like,
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: so they actually got Starbucks to change your policies based
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: on local, local needs.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Love that. That's so cool. I didn't even know that
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: that was the thing.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: Yep, it's cool.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: So you've probably heard me talk about this on enough
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: episodes if you've been listening for a while that you
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: know that essentially I'm learning ASL. This is one of
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: the reasons that I wanted to do this as a
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: as a topic. And one of the very fun things
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: that happens when you spend some amount of time every
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: single day practicing in another language is how it starts
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: to creep into your life in ways you might not expect.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: So as I'm reading, like through our notes and talking
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: through them, I'm actually also seeing the signs that would
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: go with some of the words here. Yeah, and I've
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: started to dream in ASL sometimes, which is really fun.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Keep seeing the word the word pity is like if
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: you hold both of your hands sort of palms out,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: face up away from you with your so like all
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: five fingers up, but then bend just your middle fingers
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: and you're sort of doing emotion like you're petting something
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: in front of you. This is pity.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, okay, cool, thank you for saying that.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm actually going to talk through a few signs
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: on here, which is interesting choice for an auditory podcast,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: but it's going to happen, so yeah, it'd be good.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: It'll be good. So there's another thing that is when
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: we've talked about ASL, all that it's worth mentioning, and
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: it's that there are different ways people approach signing. So
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: ASL uses the English alphabet in which each letter has
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: a sign itself, so you can finger spell that way,
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: and some people who sign depend mostly or entirely on
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: spelling to communicate, and they get very very fast at this.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: If you've ever watched somebody like fingerspell really quickly, it's
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: like because some of the letters flow really well together
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: and really nicely, so like you might not even pick
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: up some of the letters. You almost have to pick
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: up like the first letter, a couple of the middle
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: and like a couple at the end to be able
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: to pick up the word.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like watching Ingvey Melmstein shred the neck of
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: a guitar.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're like, I know he played an e at
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: some point.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there were notes in there, but the hand was
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: a blur.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: Yep, yep.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: Think about spell and read that spelling that fast. That's
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: how good they get at it. Yeah, I've been practicing.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: I cannot go that fast. I'm getting faster, but it
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: is it is challenging for me. Yeah, okay. Another part
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: of the variations in ways that people use ASL is
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: something called SimCom that stands for simultaneous communication, and this
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: is a combination of trying to talk and sign at
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: the same time. This is sometimes used by people who
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: are hard of hearing or hearing impaired, but not entirely deaf.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: It might be used in some forms of education or
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: attempting to often is used by people who are hearing
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: and trying to communicate with someone who is deaf by
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: trying to sign and talk, and sometimes it's used by
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: deaf people trying to communicate with people who are hearing.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: But it does have some caveats, and generally a lot
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: of deaf people will say, don't SimCom with us. Again,
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: there's a prefer there, and we'll talk through some of
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: the pros and cons here.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the issues is because they used a
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: different grammatical structure, SimCom can disrupt the meaning of one
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: or both of the languages. As people are trying to
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: communicate some concepts and sign language need greater explanation in
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: English and vice versa. So I think that's really valuable
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: to know. Now, another huge part of ASL is using
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: non manual markers, and we'll come back to this as
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: we as we go, which often get dropped when trying
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: to SimCom. So some people may request SimCom to communicate,
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: but in general it is best to only sign if
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: you are going to sign, and only talk if you're
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: going to talk.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just like it's like trying to talk to
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: to speak two different languages at the same time, and
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: it's like something's getting lost here. You're giving up something
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: for something else. And if you're a hearing person, you're
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: probably dropping important aspects of the ASL itself, making it
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: look very difficult to understand. If you're a deaf person,
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: you're probably speaking in somewhat broken, somewhat fragmented sentences. I
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: actually saw a a interpreter do a video on YouTube
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: which is really fun where he's like, he just signed
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: and then he he did the video where he talked
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: through He's like, if I did a one to one,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: here are the English words with the signs in the
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: in the same order translation, like what it would sound like.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: And it's really fun to hear, like what the English
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: sentences would turn into in that way.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: It was really fun to watch because it's like, because
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: they're different languages, so it's like it doesn't translate directly
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: across you kind of have to pick one or the other.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: So all that is to say, generally avoid the SimCom thing.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: There is actually a sign for this, which in my
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: mind looks relatively provocative, but sign for SimCom. I'll show
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: Shane even though you can't see. If you want to google,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: if he'll, they'll fee to look it up.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: But it's this oh yeah, uh huh yeh uh huh
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: so uh.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: You couldn't see me say which anyway, boy being, you
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: can look at it if you want to. There there's
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: a sign for it. But the generally speaking, it is
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: best to avoid doing that and less typically requested to
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: do that, Yeah, we have a lot more to say
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: about sort of the structure and grammar and content of ASL,
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: and I think we'll get into a little bit more
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: talking about the community and everything and some other pieces
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: of this, but I think I want to actually save
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: that for a part two, and so this will just
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: be a shorter episode rather than the full lengths that
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: we usually do. I mean, the full lengths are usually
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: around an hour, but we'll probably come in this is
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: a little bit under that. That's just what we're doing.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: So come back next time so you can hear the
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: second part of our discussion on this topic. But if
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: you are joining us for the first time, then you
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: may not know that at the end of each of
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: our discussions we recommend some things. They're just random things
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: that we're recommending, not usually related to the topic at hand,
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: and that's what we're going to do next. So stick
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: around and we'll go recommend some things. After a quick
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: ad to break.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: Yay, Okay, we're back.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: We are going to we have some credits to get through,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: some recommendations to get through, and yeah, we're wrapping up
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: part one, so please come back for part two. I'm
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: going to talk some more about different signs, and some
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: more about well I said all those things anyway, come
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: back for part two. But all right, if you would
• 33:14
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• 33:16
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• 33:18
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• 33:22
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• 33:24
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• 33:26
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• 33:29
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• 33:31
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• 33:34
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• 33:36
  Speaker 2: Shane, that was me saying thank you and sign.
• 33:42
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• 35:00
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• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, uh but I think that's what we have to
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: say before we recommend some things. Is there anything I'm
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: missing or you'd like to add before we get to recommendations.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: Uh?
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: No, perfect, Well, then let's recommend some things.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: Yay, recommendations. So I'm recommending a movie. It feels like
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: it's for our generation because we've grown up with this
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: and that is Toy Story five. It was a lovely
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: romp back into the world of toy story. You get
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: buzz and Woody, and it's every time they decide that
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: they're gonna do a new toy story, I go, how
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: are they gonna do that the way that? Because every
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: time they end it, they're like, that feels like it
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: could be the end of the story, and it's like, oh, nope,
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: They've got some more to tell. Yeah. And I think
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: one thing that I really enjoy about Pixar is generally speaking,
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: they don't spend time making a movie unless they feel
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: the story is worth telling, which I feel pretty good about.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: And so this one is no different. So this is
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: what happens when kids start to grow up and they
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: prefer devices over toys and they stop playing, and they
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: and like what's was play and how friends look and
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: all that stuff? Right, So like what does this look
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: like as toys age and we age and stuff. I
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: won't get too much into it because I think it
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: is It does tell a little bit of Jesse story,
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: Like Jesse is kind of the focal point of the story,
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: which I really like. It's not about Buzz and Woody.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: They're kind of like side characters in it, which is
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: really lovely. But the voice cast in this one is absurd.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: So Tom Anks, Lily Allen, John Cusack, they're all back.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: Conan O'Brien plays a character named Smarty Pants, which is
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: a toilet training toy, which is hilarious. You got Craig
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: Robinson who is a device he plays like his name,
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: a character named Atlas who is a like a toy
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: map nice. You've got Bonnie Hunt, You've got Tony Hale's
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: back as four Key, You've got Wallace Shawan back as Rex.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: Ernie Hudson is Calmbat Carl Let's see bad Bunny is
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: in it. And his toys just pizza with sunglasses, which
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: is really fun. John Ratzenberger, Keanu Reeves is back in it.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: Alan Cumming plays a really interesting character, like he plays
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: evil Bullseye, which I won't spoil that for you, but
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: it's really great nice. There's so many people in this
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: movie that I think it's just a lot of fun
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: to get into. So I think you're gonna have a
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: fun time if you go watch it. I think you
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: will cry, that is something that will happen, but I
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: think you're gonna have a good time, So go watch it.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: Pixar does love some crying. I think that they maybe
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: run on the tiers of their audience.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like that's where they got the that's where
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: they got Monsters inc.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: From Yeah, exactly right. Yeah, like just a slight variation
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: on yeah uh huh. But how the model actually operates
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: UP is particularly good for that, I think, Oh.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Up. Up is devastating Coco too ugh.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah. I'm very much looking forward to seeing this,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: I do. I've always really enjoyed the Toy Story movies
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: a lot, so I'm happy to step into another adventure
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: with them, and I'm sure it'll feel like the end
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: and then they'll do another one in ten years when
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: everybody's in their nineties.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: But yeah, great, I can't wait. I can't wait.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know how old most of the cast is.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: But they did start doing these movies in the nineties,
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: and that was thirty years ago. Yeah.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: They were all established in their careers. Yeah.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they were all well in there. So that's pretty
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: cool though that it continues to stay around.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and relevant too, like relevant stories that make sense
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: for the time, you know.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, back back when the first one came out,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: like getting attached to devices was not going to be
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: a thing.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: No, it came up. No, no, no, no, no no. It
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: was take care of your toys, be nice to them, yeah.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: Don't blow them up, don't be a sid ye yeah,
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: mora all of that. I'm also recommending a movie. This
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: is a twenty twenty five movie I think I don't know.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: It came out somewhat recently. It is called The Sheep Detectives.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: This is a murder mystery movie, but one in which
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: the ones to help solve this are a flock of sheep,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: but machine herder who is murdered, who is played by
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: Hugh Jackman. He's the sheep herder and quite also quite
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: a star studded cast as far as void acting goes.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: You've got Sir Patrick Stewart, there's of course Brett Goldstein
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: people recognize him from Shrinking and Ted Lasso, Regina Hall,
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: Bella Ramsey who was on the Last of Us, Chris O'Dowd,
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: Brian Cranston, Julia Luise Dreyfus, and Conliffe Hill who was
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: on Game of Thrones, so quite the cast who mostly
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: are doing voice acting for the various sheep. So the
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: movie is just I really really liked it. It's very funny,
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: very funny, and it's also like way sadder than you think,
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: and just a really fun time like that. It's just
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: it's just really enjoyable. But it's not terribly long. I
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: think it's only an hour and a half, maybe maybe
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: up to close to to ish. But I just had
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: a really fun time with it. It was very engaging
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: and it just wanted to watch the whole time. You
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: want to see the who done it play out type
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: of thing, And yeah, I thought it was just very
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: a very fun movie, very family friendly. So I recommend
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: the sheep detectives. So that's a toy st five and
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: cheap detectives are two recommends.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: I love that. That's perfect.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: Perfect, all right, Well, I think I said the thing,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: reach out to us, leave it's rating review all that.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: But I think that we'll wrap this one up here
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: and then we'll come back for part two, get more
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: into some of the grammar and everything about ASL and
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: some analysis there.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: So beautiful. I love it.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: Anything you'd like to add that I forgot before we
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: wrap it up just perfect, just said it. We just
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: signed a whole sentence that you can't see. Thank you
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: for listening. This is Abraham and this is Shane. We're
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: out to.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: Yet you've been listening to Why we do what we do.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: You can learn more about this and other episodes by
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: going to WWD WWD podcast dot com. Thanks for listening,
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: and we hope you have an awesome day