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Are You Ready To Face Yourself with Rupi Moussanza · The Trauma Therapist

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Trauma Therapist Podcast. My name is Guy McPherson.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I interview incredible people who've dedicated their lives to helping
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: those who've been impacted by trauma. A big thank you
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: to our sponsors and our guests who are supporting this show.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: So five, four, three, two, and one. All right, folks,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: welcome back to the podcast. Very excited today to have
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: as my guest, Rupi Musanza. Rupi, welcome.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Guy. It's a pleasure to be here.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Appreciate that. Rupi is the co-founder of Aboga Medicine, where
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  Speaker 1: she serves as provider and integration guide. Aboga is a
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  Speaker 1: powerful and sacred plant traditionally used by the Bwiti people
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  Speaker 1: of Gabon, where it has been honored for generations as
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: a source of wisdom, clarity, and spiritual awakening. Rupi's work
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  Speaker 1: is informed by her own healing experience with Aboga, as
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: well as training with the Bwiti tradition and combined traditional
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: practice with trauma-informed awareness and modern integration support. Rupi, Is
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: that pronunciation correct, Bwiti?
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Bwiti, yes, that's right.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, got it.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Appreciate you being here. Before we get going, share with
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: our listeners where you're from originally and where you are currently.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: Okay, yes.
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  Speaker 3: So originally my descent is both of my parents are Sikh,
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  Speaker 3: Punjabi from India. And I was born in Africa, East Africa.
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  Speaker 3: And I grew up in London, England originally.
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 3: Well, the colonization took us everywhere. And then so I
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  Speaker 3: grew up in England for about 20 years. And then
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  Speaker 3: I moved to Canada and I was living in Canada
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  Speaker 3: for 20 years. And then from Canada, now I'm in
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  Speaker 3: Portugal and I've been in Portugal for five years.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Damn.
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  Speaker 2: Getting around.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, very exciting. Okay. So how does all this
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: start for you?
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  Speaker 3: Okay, for me, I had been, when I was living
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: in Canada, I was teaching yoga for 10 years. And
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: then I was also part of a new age spiritual
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: world trying to get some healing for myself. And I was,
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: you know, working in a crystal store, doing Reiki, all
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: this new age stuff. And I'd been doing it for
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  Speaker 3: about 10 years or so. And I had also tried
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  Speaker 3: talk therapy, other modalities. I was a Buddhist for a while.
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  Speaker 3: I pretty much tried everything.
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  Speaker 2: Let me interrupt you here, Ruby.
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  Speaker 1: I want to go back. Healing from what, if I
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: may ask?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
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  Speaker 3: I wasn't quite sure 100% because I didn't have any
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: memory of it.
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  Speaker 2: So there was sexual trauma.
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  Speaker 3: Sexual abuse, but I wasn't sure completely a hundred percent.
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  Speaker 3: There wasn't a memory or confirmation of that. I knew
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  Speaker 3: that there was something that just never felt right within me.
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  Speaker 1: And then that was that in terms of say a
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: little more about that. Was that anxiety, depression or addiction?
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  Speaker 1: What was going on for you?
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Perfect.
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  Speaker 3: I was 45 and I was very depressed. I had anxiety.
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  Speaker 3: I was pretty much stuck and very confused. A lot
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  Speaker 3: of mental confusion going on. Also tried different spiritual modalities,
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  Speaker 3: but there was still confusion about what is actually right
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  Speaker 3: for me, what is actually working. And then also the
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: trauma of a childhood trauma that still I couldn't get
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  Speaker 3: quite to the bottom of.
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  Speaker 2: And I knew there was something there.
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  Speaker 1: You knew there was something or you felt something?
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  Speaker 2: I wasn't sure. I wasn't sure.
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  Speaker 3: Like, I knew that there was something up with me
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: in the sense of like, my relationship with Mem, my
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: relationship with my father altered at a certain age.
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  Speaker 2: And also.
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  Speaker 3: this, my sexuality, there was something really just not right
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  Speaker 3: with the way that I was processing my own sexuality
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  Speaker 3: in my own body. And then with the other partner,
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  Speaker 3: you know, I also had at 26, I decided to
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  Speaker 3: have a range marriage. That's what led me to Canada.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: And then I divorced from there. So there's, you know,
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  Speaker 3: coming from an Indian background, there's also a lot of shame.
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  Speaker 3: There's a lot of repression. There's a lot of baggage
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  Speaker 3: there to be dealing with too. And not just like
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  Speaker 3: regular society, you know, you're not really allowed to so
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  Speaker 3: much in my family go out with short shorts or
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: talk to boys. So there's a lot of confusion around
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  Speaker 3: my sexuality. So, you know, and I just wasn't quite sure.
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  Speaker 3: And I went to the therapist and we couldn't quite
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  Speaker 3: get an answer for it. And I was single for
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  Speaker 3: 10 years. And I'm like, okay, what's wrong with me?
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  Speaker 3: What do I need to do? But I never got
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  Speaker 3: any answers. So I was just stuck. Nothing helped me.
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  Speaker 2: Nothing.
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  Speaker 3: No meditation, no Buddhism, no crystal healing.
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  Speaker 2: No, no, nothing. No, the therapist didn't even help me.
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  Speaker 1: That sounds that to me, I'm... that would sound very, um,
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  Speaker 1: like very, very frustrating, very depressing. I'm not projecting this
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  Speaker 1: onto you, but I'm just saying for me to do
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  Speaker 1: all of that work and like what the F is
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  Speaker 1: going on. So what do you do?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. What do you do? You know?
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  Speaker 3: And I was like, I was like one of the
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: many people, because when, when I, when people come to
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  Speaker 3: a boga, it's the last resort, right? Everybody, they usually
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  Speaker 3: tried everything else, including other plant medicines. They've done everything else.
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  Speaker 3: But Aboga is much stronger than this. So what did
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  Speaker 3: I do? Is that, I mean, I shut all my
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  Speaker 3: spiritual work down for a year. It was COVID. I
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: didn't do anything. I was stuck at home, super depressed.
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  Speaker 3: But I knew that And then, you know, also when
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: you hit midlife crisis, you're okay.
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  Speaker 2: You're like, okay, what is the point in living?
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  Speaker 3: There has to be more to life than this. But
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  Speaker 3: then I did meet a friend that I'd known for
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: a while. And she told me about Abogo three years ago.
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  Speaker 3: But I was a bit careful because I was like,
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  Speaker 3: I didn't want to just jump into something if I
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  Speaker 3: didn't know if it was real. And I was scared, too,
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: to be honest with you. And so I watched her
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  Speaker 3: for a while. And then finally, the year that we
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: were in COVID, I met her and she was just glowing.
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  Speaker 3: She was like looking so much lighter. She was glowing.
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  Speaker 3: And I'm like, what did you do? And she's like
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  Speaker 3: a booger. And I'm like, oh, my God, I have
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  Speaker 3: to do this. And that's how I came across a booger.
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  Speaker 3: And it was my last resort. Honestly, I had no work.
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  Speaker 3: I had nothing going for myself at that point. I
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: was really low, the lowest point in my life. I
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  Speaker 3: didn't even have enough money.
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  Speaker 2: For the ceremony.
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  Speaker 3: But two weeks before then, I got a tax rebate
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  Speaker 3: from the Canada government, which was the exact same amount
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  Speaker 3: that I needed to pay for the ceremony.
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  Speaker 2: So these are like....
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  Speaker 1: This is all really good here. So up to that point,
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  Speaker 1: so this woman you met, was she a friend?
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  Speaker 4: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: Yes.
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  Speaker 2: From the yoga studios.
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  Speaker 1: Yes.
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  Speaker 2: She was a friend. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: So up to that point, you'd mentioned other plant medicines.
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  Speaker 1: Had you done any? And if so, which ones and
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: what was that experience like for you?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Actually, I was just about to do ayahuasca two months before,
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: but then I had a a big car accident. And
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: I almost like, I don't know how I survived. And
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  Speaker 3: then And in my meditation, the message I got was
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  Speaker 3: ayahuasca is not for you. That is not your medicine.
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  Speaker 3: And I'm like, oh, my God, you could have given
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  Speaker 3: me the message much nicer. But it was like, no,
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  Speaker 3: it's not for you. You can't do that medicine. And
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  Speaker 3: I had been watching ayahuasca for a while, to be honest,
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  Speaker 3: because I used to treat people for Reiki. And a
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  Speaker 3: lot of them that did ayahuasca, what I noticed is
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  Speaker 3: they didn't integrate their experience properly. And plus, I did
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  Speaker 3: not want to have an experience that takes me outside
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  Speaker 3: of my body or I feel the fear of losing
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  Speaker 3: control of myself. That's the one thing I didn't want.
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  Speaker 3: And a boga is completely different. A boga takes you
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  Speaker 3: inside of yourself. It's a very grounding medicine. We don't
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  Speaker 3: even consider it a psychedelic. It's more of a medicine
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  Speaker 3: than anything else. So you're not necessarily going to get
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  Speaker 3: that psychedelic trip or escapism. It's going to really bring
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  Speaker 3: you right here to the present moment.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I want to get into that in a bit.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
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  Speaker 1: So you decide to do a boga.
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  Speaker 4: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: So what do you do? Where do you go? How
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  Speaker 1: do you find someone?
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  Speaker 3: Okay, well, you know, you can find us on the website,
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  Speaker 3: but through my friend, her friend had done the training
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  Speaker 3: from Africa and I actually did it with her in
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  Speaker 3: the basement in Toronto.
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  Speaker 2: So I just managed to do my private.
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  Speaker 3: She was new, she was learning, but there are many
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  Speaker 3: Abogo centers now around the world, Costa Rica, Canada, Mexico.
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  Speaker 3: And we're here in Portugal. And so it felt right.
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  Speaker 3: I had a conversation with her and that was it.
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  Speaker 3: I was like, okay, let's do this because I've got
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  Speaker 3: nothing else to lose. I've tried everything else and nothing worked.
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  Speaker 3: So I'm like, okay.
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  Speaker 1: No, correct me if I'm wrong here, but you must
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  Speaker 1: have been at the end of your rope.
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  Speaker 2: Yes. How did you, what.
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  Speaker 1: Kind of due diligence did you do with this medicine?
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  Speaker 2: You know what I did? I watched my friend for
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  Speaker 2: three years. I watched her.
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  Speaker 3: I watched her to see, okay, is her life improving?
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  Speaker 3: Is she still present or is she.
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  Speaker 2: Out to lunch?
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  Speaker 3: Because I didn't want to have a spiritual experience and
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  Speaker 3: just get lost in that escapism of spirituality. I needed
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  Speaker 3: something that can help me in my everyday life. They
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  Speaker 3: can make me feel, make me even feel good, give
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: me relief, you know. So I just didn't want to,
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  Speaker 3: because I knew myself too. I was like, like everyone
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  Speaker 3: else when the new age world opens up, you know.
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  Speaker 3: there there were retreats and things that I did to
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  Speaker 3: escape not to actually go in and be able to
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  Speaker 3: deal with my stuff so I really that's not what
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  Speaker 3: I wanted so I trusted my intuition I saw the
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: results of my friend. I met with the lady. And
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  Speaker 3: it was like, okay, Rupi, this feels right now or never.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, I was scared, of course, because it's the unknown.
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  Speaker 3: But something felt so right at the same time.
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  Speaker 1: So tell us a little bit about your experience specifically.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay.
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  Speaker 3: I'll share my experience, but I do want to make
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: a disclaimer that everybody's experience is so different when they
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: do a boga, you know.
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  Speaker 2: But it.
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  Speaker 3: You know, the short word, the short sentence, it was
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  Speaker 3: profoundly powerful and transformative and hard and difficult and intense,
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  Speaker 3: but so beautiful.
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  Speaker 2: It was everything that I was looking for in my life.
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  Speaker 2: That was it.
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  Speaker 3: This was what I've been searching for. Because we're all
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  Speaker 3: looking for something. And what are we looking for? We're
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  Speaker 3: actually looking for the connection to ourselves. So whether you
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  Speaker 3: want to name that the soul or whether you want
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  Speaker 3: to name that higher self or the spirit, that's what
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  Speaker 3: a boga gives us access to, to have that connection
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  Speaker 3: with ourselves. So the first ceremony, what I found was
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  Speaker 3: a little bit chaotic in the beginning. There's random memories
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: and images that didn't make sense that were just moving
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: out of me. That's kind of called what we would
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: say a detox, the first ceremony.
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  Speaker 1: Okay.
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  Speaker 3: And so everything was just moving out of me. And
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  Speaker 3: the music was so intense because we played the buiti music,
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  Speaker 3: which is a very important part of the ceremony.
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  Speaker 2: Super healing. So it felt very powerful and overwhelming.
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  Speaker 3: But I knew something that there was something there that
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: I could trust.
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  Speaker 2: Something felt very familiar.
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  Speaker 3: And then there's this part when I'm ready, when the
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  Speaker 3: detox part was kind of done, that she helped me
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: connect with myself.
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  Speaker 2: It's kind of like a guided meditation, but it's live.
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  Speaker 2: It's different.
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  Speaker 3: And our job as a provider is to help people
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: connect to themselves. So once the mental detox is done,
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: we need to go in and have a live conversation.
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  Speaker 3: So she helped me connect to myself and ask my
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  Speaker 3: soul how she's doing.
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  Speaker 2: And is she happy?
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  Speaker 3: Is she sad? Is she scared? What does she need?
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  Speaker 3: And for me personally, she was so happy to meet me.
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  Speaker 3: It was love at first sight. It was like your
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: everything that I've been waiting for. It was truly a
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: soul meeting that I had with myself. And then from then,
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  Speaker 3: I know some people say it sounds too good to
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: be true, but for me, it was really profound and beautiful.
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  Speaker 3: And then also from there, I was able to, the
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  Speaker 3: medicine was showed. The first thing it actually showed me
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: was there was sexual abuse at.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: The age of eight.
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  Speaker 3: And it showed me in a way that you're like
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: witnessing it like the third person. You're not experiencing the
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: whole thing. You're not having the emotional experiences. It's like, no,
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: this actually did happen to you. This was the person
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: and this is how we're going to heal it. So
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: the provider made sure it got healed.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Let me just interject for a second here with a question.
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  Speaker 1: So you mentioned that it's somewhat different from a lot
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: of other plant medicines.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: On this podcast, people know, you know, we've talked about
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: what ketamine or other or psychedelics. So The experience is not,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: you're not seeing images or psychedelic hallucinations or visualizations or what?
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: Okay, it's a great question. So some people do and
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: some people don't. So it's 50-50. So Aboga works on
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: all your senses. It's going to heighten what you hear, smell, taste, touch.
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  Speaker 3: And its main job is to go in and wake
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: up the soul, the intuition. So it's waking everything up.
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  Speaker 3: So sometimes it will give people images and that psychedelic experience,
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: but it will taper off at some point as well.
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  Speaker 3: Because I've got to the point that I've got to
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: in the work that we've done is it's almost better
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: not to have any visions because sometimes people get confused
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: because they don't know if it's the medicine or if
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: it's the mind, because the mind is so powerful and
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: And that's the part that I would love to talk
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: about too, which I learned the most in my ceremony
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: and my experience is that I underestimated how powerful the
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: mind was and how much of that mind was my
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: worst enemy, my sabotage. So even though my trauma got healed,
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: my sexual trauma got healed, which was fabulous because to
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: me that made sense why I made all the choices
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: in my life. Just from that thing alone, It set
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: me free. I was like, okay, this explains everything to
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: me in my life, why I made all these choices.
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  Speaker 2: And it freed me.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: Say a little more about the power of the mind. Yes.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 15:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: And so what makes a bhoga different now, too, is
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: that it specifically heals the mind.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: It's working.
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: And us Westerners, we need healing from the mind. So
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: what does that mean, healing from the mind? It means that,
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: first of all, it's going to go and clean everything up.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: So it's almost like it's going to press the trash
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: button or empty out the computer file. It's just going
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: to empty the whole mind out, all the images. And
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: that's what we call that detox. And sometimes that can
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: be a lot.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: For people, right?
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: And so that's why we help them through the process
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: that this is normal. It's just the mind being emptied out.
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: So that's the first part. Then the second part of
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: the process of what Boga is going to teach us
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: is how our mind's been working. What does that mean?
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: It's like there's certain ways of thinking and patterns of
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: behavior and the way that we're thinking that is actually
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: holding us back. So for example, in a critic, talking
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: negative to ourself, or just keep going in the past
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: or keep retracing.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: Steps, you know, these are examples.
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: And so the medicine, what it does, it wants to
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: teach you about your mind, body and soul, but it's
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: got to teach you about the mind first. So sometimes,
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: During the week when we're in retreats with people, you know,
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: if there's a certain way we're thinking or if we
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: love stress and anxiety because we get used to it, right.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: It's going to put it in your face.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: It's going to be like, well, this thinking, do you
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: really want to hold on to it or do you
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: want to let it go?
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: What do you want to do with it? Because it's
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: really not bringing you any happiness. happiness.
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: So the power of the mind, it really shows people,
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: including myself, how the mind can be our worst enemy.
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: And that's our main problem in the West. That's that self-sabotage.
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: Aboga is the only medicine that has access to the mind.
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: And that's where sometimes people get afraid with it because
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: these random images and things that come up, if they
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: don't have a good provider helping them process and integrate
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: live as it's happening.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, don't, you know, don't get attached to that.
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: That's just a memory being moved out. Or if it's
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: halfway during retreat and somebody likes the repetitiveness of the
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: way that they're thinking, we're going to help you, give
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: you some tools to take control of the mind to
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: actually say stop.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Let me pause you right there. So let's kind of
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: get into how you work. Yes. What you do. who
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: this is for and the specifics of the retreat. For example,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: is there kind of a preparatory time before the actual
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: medicine and so forth? And also, I'm curious, when someone
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: is using the medicine, how quote-unquote conscious are they Are
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: they having a discussion with their guide, et cetera? Okay.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: These are great questions. So where should I start? Oh,
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: how we start. So when people come to us first,
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: we're going to have an intake call. So I'm doing
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: the screening to see why they want to come to
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: Aboga because Aboga is a serious medicine. It's not just
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: a psychedelic trip. It's like, okay, what is the reason
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: for this? So me and Stephen will both, you know,
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: screen and if they're on any kind of medication because antidepressants,
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: they can't actually do BOGA straight away. They would have
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: to come off it with their medical team and support
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: before they can come to a BOGA. And so in
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: terms of preparation, they just have to be ready. They
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: have to say to us, okay, this is what I want.
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: These are the reasons why I want to do a BOGA.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: I'm ready to face myself. I'm ready to heal the trauma.
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: I'm also ready to face the things that I've done
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: to myself as well. So then once they come to
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: the retreat, it's a seven day retreat, six nights.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: And then the.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: First day is always a rival because we want the
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: most important thing for us is for people to feel
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: safe and comfortable.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: That's number one, right?
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: And it's usually the people that we treat is for
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: people that have experienced trauma or spiritual, they're burnt out.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: Spiritual discovery, they want to get to know themselves. It's
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: more of a psycho-spiritual journey. We tend not to treat
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: people with addictions, that we refer them to the clinics
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: because I know Aboga is really well known for addictions.
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: But it's bigger than just addictions. There's a lot of
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: other beautiful healing a boga can assist with. The results
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: can be really beautiful, right? And then there's sexual trauma,
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: there's serious accidents, violence, divorces. Sometimes people just want to
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: come because they want to actually just reset themselves or
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: entrepreneurs that want to sharpen their mind. And they're like, okay,
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: we heard that a boga can really help.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: With the mind.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: Let's do it. So these are the kind of people
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: that we get. And then so the second day is
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: the day of the ceremony. Now with a boga, at
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: our retreats, we have a chef. We serve all food.
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: So meat is served because a boga is a strong medicine.
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: So we want people to eat. And so the last
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: meal is served at two o'clock that day. And then
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: in the evening, 9.30 is the first ceremony. We start
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: off with a fire talk. which is part of the
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: Bwiti tradition. And it's a very important part of the
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: healing because everything that we will share, that we talk about,
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: comes originally from a Boga. A Boga had taught the
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: Bwiti people how to make the instruments, how to play it,
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: everything to share. So this is an extremely ancient, beautiful tradition.
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: And usually when we're starting the fire talk, it's helping
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: people to understand what to expect.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: It's an oral tradition.
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: So it's my breath to yours to let them know
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: the first ceremony is that detox, preparing them, getting them ready.
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: And it's more of a surrender so they can experience
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: the medicine. So what do they experience the first time?
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: The first thing they're going to experience with the medicine
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: is they're going to feel a little bit relaxed. And
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: it's almost going to put people into a dream state,
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: like kind of like dreamy.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: And then when.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: They're ready, they're going to lie down on the mattress
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: and And we give them a blindfold and there's the
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: booty music is being played. And so they can feel
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: the sensation in the body first. They might feel some heat,
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: some tingling, and then they might have some visions. It's
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: 50-50 with the visions. And then sometimes people can purge.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: That's also 50-50. It's not a guaranteed. But the first
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: night can be the intense night. It can be very powerful,
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: like what just happened, because the music is designed to
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: also help break up the patterns in the brain.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: What type of music are we talking about here?
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an old traditional instrument, which is called the magongo.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: They play the magongo.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: And it's just a wooden, bent like a bow with
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: a string.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: And it's a mouthpiece.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: And you'd be amazed at how powerful just that alone.
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: And yeah, and then these are recordings from the village
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: that we trained at. And so that music is being played.
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: The music drives the ceremony. Without the music, It's really
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: quite empty. The music protects the people. The music is
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: just guiding the whole ceremony. So then the first ceremony
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: can be pretty intense. And me and Stephen are there
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: the whole night supporting everybody. We pretty much live in
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: the house the whole time because we just want to
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: take care of everybody. So we only have six people
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: in our retreats, very small intimate retreats. We want to
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: get the results. We want people to feel safe and comfortable.
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: One thing here.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: Are people setting... intentions before they go into this?
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: This is a really good question.
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: So for the first ceremony, they have the intentions there.
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: They have that first, maybe one or two questions. But
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: from our experience, what we've learned is it's best to
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: let the medicine work on them. Because sometimes we would
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: get people to write their questions and intentions. They have
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: 20 questions and And then by the time the next
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: day comes, they're like, oh, I only needed to ask
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: one question. And then, you know, and then also people
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: get really tired and frustrated during that first ceremony because
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: the detox is happening in their mind. So what we
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: do is, what me and Stephen do, we work closely
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: during the night. Our job is to first connect everybody
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: to their soul.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Or this spirit.
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: Now from that conversation, we know how somebody's doing.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: I will know.
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: Is the soul scared? What does the soul need? Is
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: she loved? The person is hearing live from themselves what's happening.
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: I'm not making it up. Aboga's not making it up.
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: That's the truth of what we're dealing with and what's
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: coming up. So it's just the beginning. The first ceremony
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: is just the opening of everything. And then we kind
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: of leave them. We don't want to push them with
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: too many questions on the first one because we want
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: the medicine to work on them with the detox. And
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: then for them to understand, have their own understanding as
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: well a little bit. So when the sun comes up,
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: so the music, the ceremony has gone on all night.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: And then when the sun comes up, we take them
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: to their rooms.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: This is the.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: Second part of the ceremony because the boga goes on
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: for a long time. The second part of this, the
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: second day is called the processing day or the rest day.
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: And we check on everybody every half an hour, at
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: least till one o'clock, because that is when there's no music.
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: They're just by themselves. That's when all the insights and
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: realizations can come. So they might have a realization and
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: insight that, okay, something did happen to them. And me
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: and Stephen are there checking on them and we're helping
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: everybody to integrate their experience live as it's happening. We're
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: not like waiting for tomorrow. It's like we're giving them
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: the teachings and the integration. And then we're giving them
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: fruit and soup throughout the day. So that day was
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: super protective of everyone because everyone's vulnerable.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: They're so wide open.
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: And that's when we're just really present with them to
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: help them integrate.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: And then, yeah.
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: It just sounds very intense in a great way.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: I love it. I love this work, but it's so beautiful.
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: But it's intense. Yes, it is intense, but it's beautiful.
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: The results are beautiful. And then like in the evening,
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: they have a nice pasta dinner because that really helps
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: the brain, bulks them down, and then hopefully they can
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: have a good sleep. And then we have a middle
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: day and the middle day is designed for them to
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: do nothing. We have a spiritual shower for them. But
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: me and Stephen are available for one-on-one counseling, integration and support. And,
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: you know, many people ask us, why don't you do
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: this or add breath work or crystal work? And we're like, no, no, no,
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: because we already live in a society where there's so
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: much stimulation and on retreats. that you need this time
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: to yourself. And a lot of people struggle with it
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: because there's no phones.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: They're scared. You know what?
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: The one thing that scares everybody is like, shit, they
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: got to be with themselves.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: And I'm like.
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: That's so scary for so many people. But I'm like,
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: but that's the most beautiful gift you can give yourself.
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: You have to at one point in your life, you know.
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: So it's really beautiful. But we helped them through it.
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: And it's a really beautiful day that day too. And
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: it gives the people the opportunity to eat, to get
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: their strength back, their clarity, and they're feeling good. Then
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: the next day we have the second ceremony. That's when
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: we're going gangster with them. That's when like they're feeling strong.
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: They're clear about their questions.
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: So before the second ceremony, me and Stephen will sit
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: down with each and every one and we've got the
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: questions now. I've got all their questions. I'm not letting
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: them off the hook. Like if one person says to me, okay,
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: I want to go and visit sightseeing. I'm like, no,
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: because you've come all this way to do your work.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: Do you want to do this work or not? So
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: it's a very kind of like... African way of doing
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: things you know it's like okay we ease you in
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: softly we.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: Let you have your moment let you have.
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: Your realizations but this there's some things that you got
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: to look at that need healing you know and majority
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: of the time most people are ready okay I want
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: to look at this I need to ask this did
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: this happen get these questions answered sometimes people are scared
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: and that's okay that's normal but this is where we
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: get really excited with the second ceremony because The second ceremony,
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: we'll ask all the questions for them and.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: They will get the answers.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: So while they're under the influence of the medicine, you'll
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: just have a conversation with them?
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they're lying down and then very quietly, there's a
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: technique that we do that we've been trained to help
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: them connect with themselves so that they can get the answers.
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: That they need.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: The truth, the truth, because we all want the truth, right?
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: The truth of what really happened and to ensure that
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: the healing is done.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: And then the truth of like.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: You know, is it your mind or, you know, what
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: part of the trauma gets healed? So the medicine is
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: so beautiful because it helps heal anything before the age
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: of 18. Because we're kids, we have no control over
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: the environment or anything like that.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: And then after 18, it's kind of like.
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: What do we do to ourselves, you know, and also
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: take responsibility for some of our choices. And that's the
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: hardest thing for most people to face. including myself, is
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: learning to forgive yourself or just forgiving and accepting. So
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: there's so much in what a boga has to offer.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: And in.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: Gabon and for the Bwiti, they.
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: Usually have a boga as a rites of passage or
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: initiation from childhood to adulthood. So for us Westerners, we're
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: just going to grow up now. You know, so it's...
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: Ruby, let me just interrupt you here. As we kind
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: of wind down here, for our listeners, I mean, this
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: is very exciting and intense and beautiful information. Who would
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: you say, I mean, you did share it, but I'm
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: going to ask you to share it again. Who would
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: this be great for?
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: Whoever's ready.
• 30:36
  Speaker 5: If you're ready to heal, if you're ready to change, basically,
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: or are you just dancing around or pretending to heal?
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: That sounds so brutal, but it's just like sometimes we
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: can change. in our own minds, create a healing.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: Like I did it.
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: I thought I was the greatest yogi in Toronto at
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: the time and the healer and I healed myself, but
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: I didn't. So that's why the mind is very powerful.
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: So are you ready to face yourself? Are you ready
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: to heal? Are you ready to let go? And to
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: be honest, without a sound choosing, it really is the
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: real self-love. Because even if the truth hurts for a minute,
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: it's going to set you free, no matter what it is.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: And Aboga is really beautiful and easy for trauma. It
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: really does help move it out so easy. It's just
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: if we're ready, if we're ready to let go and
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: ready to face ourselves.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: All right, Rupi, how do people learn more about you
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: and Aboga Medicine? What's the best way?
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we have our website at abogamedicine.com and you can
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: find us there and also on Instagram as And that's
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: pretty much it.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: Whoever's ready finds us. Okay.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: And you mentioned Steven. Yes. How did you guys meet?
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: How did you guys come to work together? Just briefly.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: I had apprenticed at another center in Portugal. Actually, I
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: met him in Africa the second time. And he was
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: opening up Portugal. And I said, can I come and
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: work and intern? He said yes. And then we were
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: part of a very big team at that time. And
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: we were there for two years. And we both had
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: a different vision. We didn't want to be hosting retreats
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: two to three times a month. with 10 to 12
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: people in the retreat. So we decided to do our
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: own thing, one retreat a month, just six, maybe seven people.
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: And we're also both in our 50s. And yeah, this
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: is a gift that the medicine brought us together as well.
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: And then a couple of years later, we're now in
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: partnership as well. So it's the medicine and life that
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: brought us together.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: I just said yes.
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: There were many times where I said no and I
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: was scared of love. but then I finally said yes.
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: And it's so funny guy. You know what the funniest
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: thing is? Most people are afraid of love and their
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: own self love, but it's, it's, it's worth, um, it's
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: worth just getting the truth and going through it and
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: finding that love for yourself in a very real way.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: Well, I really appreciate being here and sharing your story and, um,
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: This is what you're doing is amazing. And I'd love
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: to have you back at a later date.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: Yes, I would love it too. I've got so much
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: to talk about. And it's so nice. Yeah, and thank
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: you for your questions.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: I love your energy, man. I love everything you do.
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: So thank you.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that. All right, we'll be in touch.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Thank you.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: Bye.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: Bye-bye.