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Mannequins, Missing Men & A Murderer: Herb Baumeister · Legally Brunette

0:01
Speaker 1: Hi, everybody, Welcome to Legally Brunette. I will be your
0:04
Speaker 1: hostess today. Emily Simpson with Shane With Shane, Okay, today
0:09
Speaker 1: we are going to discuss a case called the Fox
0:13
Speaker 1: Hollow Murders. I don't know if you've heard of it.
0:16
Speaker 1: It was a documentary on Hulu and I remember seeing
0:19
Speaker 1: it anytime I would, you know, go on to Hulu.
0:21
Speaker 1: And I hadn't watched it yet, but I had gotten
0:23
Speaker 1: a lot of dms from people saying, Hey, have you
0:26
Speaker 1: talked about the Fox Hollow Murders. And also the reason
0:29
Speaker 1: I feel like it was just kind of renewed or
0:32
Speaker 1: became more interesting again is because they added I believe
0:36
Speaker 1: there's three parts in the original I think it came
0:38
Speaker 1: out in twenty twenty five, but they added an updated episode,
0:43
Speaker 1: So I think that renewed interest in people talking about it.
0:47
Speaker 1: So anyway, let's get into it. I will say before
0:51
Speaker 1: we get into it, I have never watched a documentary
0:56
Speaker 1: before where I finished it and left with more questions
1:02
Speaker 1: than in the beginning. So let's get into it. In
1:05
Speaker 1: the quiet suburbs of Indianapolis, Herb Baummeister appeared to be
1:09
Speaker 1: living the American dream. He was a family man and
1:12
Speaker 1: a business owner. Herb and his wife Julie had even
1:16
Speaker 1: acquired a sprawling rural estate called Fox Hollow Farm, a
1:20
Speaker 1: place that seemed to embody a certain idyllic Midwestern piece.
1:25
Speaker 1: But throughout the early nineteen nineties, men were vanishing from
1:28
Speaker 1: Indianapolis's gay bar scene, no bodies, no explanations. When investigators
1:34
Speaker 1: finally turned their eyes toward Fox Hollow Farm, they found
1:37
Speaker 1: that the peaceful estate held secrets very deeper than anyone
1:41
Speaker 1: had ever imagined. The idyllic grounds of this family home
1:44
Speaker 1: had been hiding the truth all along, waiting to be found. So,
1:49
Speaker 1: first of all, my first question is when when they
1:52
Speaker 1: do the documentary, Fox Hollow Farm is beautiful. It's a
1:56
Speaker 1: multi million dollar dollar property. You're talking about a large,
2:00
Speaker 1: tutor style home and then barnes pastures, rolling hills, fence lines, trees.
2:08
Speaker 1: It's beautiful. So my first question before we get into
2:11
Speaker 1: the details of it, is I don't understand how Herb
2:14
Speaker 1: afforded it.
2:15
Speaker 2: He was a businessman, well that was here, yeah, but
2:19
Speaker 2: you know what, like murder costs money.
2:20
Speaker 1: No, But in the documentary they talk about how he
2:24
Speaker 1: was an entrepreneur. He opened a couple of businesses with
2:26
Speaker 1: his wife that were like goodwill type of businesses, secondhand shops,
2:31
Speaker 1: and then it said something to the effect of, like,
2:34
Speaker 1: sometimes I felt like they alluded to the fact that
2:36
Speaker 1: he was a good businessman and then other times that
2:38
Speaker 1: he had failing businesses. So I still don't understand both.
2:41
Speaker 2: Maybe some businesses that do well and some that don't,
2:43
Speaker 2: and overall he comes out ahead and he can afford
2:46
Speaker 2: to kill people.
2:47
Speaker 1: Well, I'm just talking about how he afforded Fox Hollow Farms.
2:50
Speaker 1: Maybe his wife had money, maybe she had family money.
2:52
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I feel like that was not
2:55
Speaker 1: explained because they did say in the documentary that at
2:58
Speaker 1: the height of like when his businesses were doing well,
3:01
Speaker 1: he was making like three hundred thousand dollars a year.
3:03
Speaker 1: I still don't know how you can afford a proper years.
3:07
Speaker 1: This is probably early nineties.
3:08
Speaker 2: Okay, there you go. So you're saying in the same
3:11
Speaker 2: breath that you can't understand how you can afford it.
3:13
Speaker 2: And then they explained that he was an entrepreneur and
3:16
Speaker 2: he made good money.
3:17
Speaker 1: No, I'm saying he opened those businesses after living at
3:20
Speaker 1: Fox Hollow Farms. So I'm saying, I don't understand initially
3:23
Speaker 1: how they afforded like a big, sprawling, multi million dollar property.
3:28
Speaker 1: That's all.
3:29
Speaker 2: Maybe he robbed his victims.
3:30
Speaker 1: All right, let's get to first. We're going to start
3:32
Speaker 1: out in the nineteen sixties to the nineteen seventies. Her
3:35
Speaker 1: Ballmeister attends Indiana University and he meets Julie and the
3:38
Speaker 1: two marry in nineteen seventy one. My mom and dad
3:41
Speaker 1: got married in nineteen seventy one. What did your parents
3:44
Speaker 1: get married.
3:44
Speaker 2: I don't know, seventy or seventy one.
3:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I don't know.
3:48
Speaker 2: They're over fifty years now.
3:50
Speaker 1: Yeah.
3:50
Speaker 2: So, well, my sister was born in seventy two and
3:53
Speaker 2: they got married before that, so I assumed seventy one
3:55
Speaker 2: seventy one.
3:55
Speaker 1: My parents were married in seventy one. Didn't last long, though, no,
3:59
Speaker 1: because I was born in seven six, five years later,
4:01
Speaker 1: and then they were divorced by the time I was
4:03
Speaker 1: in the first grade.
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Speaker 2: Her like, that's enough of Emily, Oh not long into
4:08
Speaker 2: didn't take long.
4:10
Speaker 1: Well, the I have a younger sister too, Well, then
4:13
Speaker 1: it was her. Not long into the marriage. Herb experiences
4:16
Speaker 1: mental health struggles and he's checked into a psychiatric hospital
4:20
Speaker 1: for fifty days into now again into nineteen eighty five
4:24
Speaker 1: to eighty nine, the bombmeisters decide to enter into the
4:26
Speaker 1: thrift store business. In eighty nine, he and July opened
4:29
Speaker 1: their first of three Save a Lot thrift stores after
4:32
Speaker 1: borrowing money from Herb's mother.
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Speaker 2: Another answer some of it, Well, Herb's mom helped fund
4:40
Speaker 2: his crime spree.
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Speaker 1: I don't know, okay, so he's borrowing money in nineteen
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Speaker 1: eighty nine from his mom in order to open like
4:48
Speaker 1: thrift stores. Then in nineteen ninety one, Herb and Julie
4:51
Speaker 1: briefly separate, Then they reconcile and despite having financial and
4:56
Speaker 1: marital strain, they buy Fox Hollow Farm, which is an
4:59
Speaker 1: eight teen acre estate in Westfield, Indiana. In the early
5:03
Speaker 1: nineteen nineties, men begin disappearing from Indianapolis's gay night life scene,
5:07
Speaker 1: especially around downtown clubs like the five oh one Tavern,
5:11
Speaker 1: Varsity Lounge, and the Metro. At first, many in the
5:14
Speaker 1: community assume that the men had moved away, became sick,
5:18
Speaker 1: or finally stopped coming around, especially during the height of
5:21
Speaker 1: the AIDS epidemic. LGBTQ plus publications including the word start
5:26
Speaker 1: noticing a pattern and warning the community, while mainstream media
5:30
Speaker 1: largely stays quiet. All Right, So we have the early nineties,
5:34
Speaker 1: we have a gay bar scene in downtown Indianapolis, but
5:38
Speaker 1: it's not a huge scene, Like I feel like there's
5:40
Speaker 1: only a couple gay bars in downtown Indianapolis where everyone congregations.
5:43
Speaker 2: Small, the whole night life.
5:45
Speaker 1: Right, So the fact that there's multitudes of gay men
5:50
Speaker 1: who are missing, I don't and it doesn't seem to
5:55
Speaker 1: spark any kind of investigation.
5:58
Speaker 2: If it was a straight bar, would it be Probably
6:01
Speaker 2: it would be more media covered.
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Speaker 1: Maybe it reminds me of what we talked about the
6:06
Speaker 1: Gilgo Beach murders. When we talked about the serial killer,
6:09
Speaker 1: I remember he targeted sex workers, and I feel like
6:12
Speaker 1: that was considered like people weren't really looking because they
6:16
Speaker 1: were like, they're just sex workers.
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Speaker 2: You know what I mean, And so it's like they're expendable.
6:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so I feel like maybe that was the
6:21
Speaker 1: same mentality about these men that are missing because there
6:25
Speaker 1: was no investigation. There wasn't police that were questioning anything, Like,
6:31
Speaker 1: these men just keep disappearing from the same area. Between
6:35
Speaker 1: May and August of nineteen ninety three, several men who
6:38
Speaker 1: are later connected to Fox Hollow disappear. John Lee Behar
6:42
Speaker 1: is last seen on May twenty eighth of nineteen ninety three.
6:45
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Allen Jones is notice missing around July sixth of
6:48
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three, Richard Douglas Hamilton Junior is last scene
6:52
Speaker 1: on July thirty first of nineteen ninety three, and Alan
6:54
Speaker 1: Lee Livingston and Manuel Martinez Resindez are last seen on
6:59
Speaker 1: August sixth, nineteen ninety three.
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Speaker 2: Well, there must have been zero clues of any kind
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Speaker 2: of at least that popped up obviously for law enforcement
7:07
Speaker 2: to grab onto. So maybe it was just like third
7:12
Speaker 2: ist missing, some report of missing. There was no obvious evidence,
7:15
Speaker 2: so they just kind of let it go because they
7:17
Speaker 2: didn't put much attention to it like they should have.
7:19
Speaker 2: But maybe if there was something obvious like video camera fooge,
7:22
Speaker 2: which we know it wasn't back then, or some witnesses
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Speaker 2: of a like repeated witnesses seeing the same man, you know,
7:29
Speaker 2: then they would probably jump onto it. But if there's
7:31
Speaker 2: no obvious evidence, they're probably like, eh, at least move on.
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Speaker 1: That's interesting that you said that that there's evidence of
7:36
Speaker 1: someone seeing the same man over and over and We're
7:39
Speaker 1: going to get into that later, but that was one
7:41
Speaker 1: of my questions coming out of this documentary was if
7:44
Speaker 1: all of these men continue to disappear from these same
7:48
Speaker 1: gay bars in this same area of Indianapolis, are there
7:51
Speaker 1: no eyewitness accounts of them talking to or speaking to
7:57
Speaker 1: a man like the same man. That's the part that
8:01
Speaker 1: I just don't understand, because there's no There isn't any
8:04
Speaker 1: of that no. In nineteen ninety four, Steven Spurlin Hale
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Speaker 1: is last seen on April first of nineteen ninety four.
8:11
Speaker 1: Alan Wayne Brossard is last seen at an Indianapolis gay
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Speaker 1: bar on June sixth of nineteen ninety four. Roger Allan
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Speaker 1: Goodlett disappears after going out to a bar on July
8:21
Speaker 1: twenty second in nineteen ninety four. And Mark Goodyear this
8:25
Speaker 1: is interesting. I need you to remember the name Mark
8:26
Speaker 1: Goodyear because he is in this documentary and he is
8:30
Speaker 1: quite a character. He is the oddest, strangest, scariest, weirdest human.
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Speaker 2: But who is he? Is he a witness or is
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Speaker 2: he a law enforcement.
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Speaker 1: No, he's initially a witness. We'll talk about it. But
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Speaker 1: his name is Mark Goodyear, and he's bizarre okay, and
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Speaker 1: I'm interested on other people's.
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Speaker 2: Takes freaking patroon at the gay bars. He is okay.
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Speaker 1: So he comes forward and contacts the Indian Apples police
9:00
Speaker 1: and he reports a frightening encounter with a man calling
9:04
Speaker 1: himself Brian Smart, saying that he feared the man could
9:08
Speaker 1: have killed him. They show an interview of him, this
9:11
Speaker 1: is in nineteen ninety four of him going to the police.
9:14
Speaker 1: So he goes forward. He goes to the police. He
9:15
Speaker 1: has this story. He says that he was at a
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Speaker 1: gay bar I believe, and then he was picked up
9:19
Speaker 1: by this man I guess he calls him Brian Smart.
9:21
Speaker 1: He says he goes back to his home with him,
9:23
Speaker 1: which ends up being fox Hollow Farms, right. He describes
9:28
Speaker 1: him being there with this guy. Also, by the way,
9:30
Speaker 1: this home Fox Hollow Farms, the big main house is
9:34
Speaker 1: like a Tutor style home, but it has an indoor
9:36
Speaker 1: pool in the basement, and they showed all these images
9:40
Speaker 1: of this inside of this house. It's a creepy indoor pool.
9:43
Speaker 1: Just imagine an indoor pool in the basement with like
9:46
Speaker 1: a creepy seventies style bar next to the pool. But
9:50
Speaker 1: then they the man herb ballmeister who owns the house
9:53
Speaker 1: also likes mannikins. He has like a mannequin obsession. So
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Speaker 1: he places mannikins around the pool area and in the
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Speaker 1: bar area, like dressed like they're just like they're alive,
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Speaker 1: Like they're alive. They're just like, you know, chit chatting
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Speaker 1: at the bar and like hanging out.
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Speaker 2: And your question isn't how could he afford these mannequins
10:14
Speaker 2: or where did he buy the mannequins?
10:16
Speaker 1: No, that's not my question. Yeah, he got the mannequins
10:18
Speaker 1: from the thrift store that he owns, because he likes
10:20
Speaker 1: mannequins in his thrift store and he likes to dress
10:22
Speaker 1: them up. So Mark Goodyear comes forward. He goes to
10:32
Speaker 1: the police. He says he has this encounter with this
10:35
Speaker 1: weird guy that he meets that he goes to his
10:37
Speaker 1: house and he tells this big, long, fascinating story about
10:40
Speaker 1: he goes there to like have sex with this guy
10:43
Speaker 1: and the guy wants to strangle him like some type
10:45
Speaker 1: of you know, sexual asphyxiation type of situation.
10:48
Speaker 2: You know where you ask a steal file.
10:51
Speaker 1: Yes, see you know what I'm talking about. Why do
10:53
Speaker 1: you know.
10:53
Speaker 2: That that's steal file. It means he like like to suffcate.
10:57
Speaker 1: Yes, but like right to the point where like you
11:00
Speaker 1: don't die, you just they're supposed to be some orgasmic
11:05
Speaker 1: situation that goes on. Anyway, he says that he's there
11:08
Speaker 1: a long time, but this guy is creepy and weird,
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Speaker 1: and he wants to report him because he thinks that
11:13
Speaker 1: he's killed people, and so he goes to the police.
11:15
Speaker 1: So they show an actual like black and white, you know,
11:18
Speaker 1: interview of the police interviewing him.
11:21
Speaker 2: And the police are old video. Huh yeah, this.
11:23
Speaker 1: Is in nineteen ninety four, and he's telling the story.
11:25
Speaker 1: But the thing that drives me nuts about this interview
11:28
Speaker 1: is they don't ask him any questions. They just sit
11:31
Speaker 1: there interview well he's telling them, and they're just like
11:34
Speaker 1: uh huh uh huh Okay. They end up getting a
11:36
Speaker 1: search warrant because of what he tells them. But I'm saying,
11:39
Speaker 1: when I'm sitting there watching it and there he's telling
11:42
Speaker 1: this story, they don't ask like the deep follow up
11:45
Speaker 1: questions like how did you meet him, what does he
11:47
Speaker 1: look like?
11:48
Speaker 2: How long were you there?
11:51
Speaker 1: I don't understand. They don't take a deep dive into
11:54
Speaker 1: this story. I guess bar owners are even posting. This
11:56
Speaker 1: is what I don't understand. Even bar owners are posting
11:59
Speaker 1: like be careful you go home with.
12:04
Speaker 2: Streets in the fall.
12:06
Speaker 1: Ball Myster's thirteen year old son finds a human skull
12:09
Speaker 1: on the Fox Hollow property. Whose son Ballmeister her bom
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Speaker 1: Meister his son. He has kids with his wife Julie,
12:16
Speaker 1: and his son finds a skull on the property and
12:20
Speaker 1: I think he brings it home and he's like, oh,
12:22
Speaker 1: look what I found. Ballmeister claims the skull came from
12:25
Speaker 1: a medical school skeleton that belonged to his late father,
12:28
Speaker 1: and his wife Julie accepts the explanation at the time.
12:32
Speaker 1: That's another question I have is the wife. She lives
12:35
Speaker 1: in the home with him. There's weird mannequins. He's disappearing,
12:40
Speaker 1: and I guess he's going to gay bars and he's
12:41
Speaker 1: bringing all these men home, and she doesn't seem to
12:44
Speaker 1: She's not the one that goes to the police.
12:46
Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe she's in on it. There has
12:49
Speaker 2: to be a lot of people overlooking these obvious signs
12:53
Speaker 2: in order for him to have gotten away with all
12:55
Speaker 2: these murders. You have to understand that, because you're right,
12:59
Speaker 2: if she spoke up, it would probably stop the lots.
13:01
Speaker 2: It would have stopped a lot sooner. If a witness
13:04
Speaker 2: came out, probably would have stopped a lot sooner. Yeah,
13:07
Speaker 2: if Goodyear was normal, they probably would have listened him
13:10
Speaker 2: attle more seriously.
13:11
Speaker 1: No, but they did take him seriously because they got
13:12
Speaker 1: a search. Weren't based upon him going and get telling
13:14
Speaker 1: them this story.
13:15
Speaker 2: So they didn't need to ask questions because the guy
13:17
Speaker 2: divulged enough.
13:19
Speaker 1: No, they needed to ask more questions. There was not
13:21
Speaker 1: enough friendly they If someone comes to you and says
13:25
Speaker 1: that they went home with some guy from a gay
13:27
Speaker 1: bar and that he had a pullill and mannekins and
13:30
Speaker 1: that he wanted to kill him and he thinks that
13:32
Speaker 1: he murdered a lot of people on his property.
13:34
Speaker 2: That's a lot of information to take me a while
13:35
Speaker 2: to absorb.
13:36
Speaker 1: That, right, But I'm saying I need more follow up questions.
13:39
Speaker 1: I feel like they did address. Okay, keep going all right? Then,
13:42
Speaker 1: In March thirty first of nineteen ninety five, Michael Frederick
13:45
Speaker 1: Kern disappears. We're still in nineteen ninety five, Mark Goodyear's
13:49
Speaker 1: friends spot Brian Smart Remember Brian Smart is the name
13:53
Speaker 1: that he used for her Bombmeister downtown and write down
13:56
Speaker 1: his license plate number. Indianapolis Detective Mary will and traces
14:00
Speaker 1: the plate back to her Ballmeister and November police go
14:04
Speaker 1: to Fox Hollow Farm and ask to search the property,
14:07
Speaker 1: but herb and Julie refuse.
14:09
Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever heard that before.
14:10
Speaker 1: What ballmeister, bamb meeister ball b a ll no bomb
14:15
Speaker 1: be a us.
14:16
Speaker 2: In morning bomb meisterm meister like a bomb the bomb.
14:21
Speaker 1: Meister, he's mister Bommeister, all right. So the police go
14:25
Speaker 1: in November two ask this is in November of nineteen
14:28
Speaker 1: ninety five. I guess they knock on the door and
14:30
Speaker 1: ask if they can search the property, Like, why.
14:31
Speaker 2: Wouldn't they the bones?
14:34
Speaker 1: We would just like to the property please. June twenty
14:38
Speaker 1: fourth and nineteen ninety six, Julie changes her mind and
14:40
Speaker 1: allows police to search Fox Hollow Farm. I assume that
14:44
Speaker 1: means that she finally is admitting that there's red flags
14:47
Speaker 1: maybe in the relationship, and that there's some creepy, weird
14:50
Speaker 1: things going on in her home.
14:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, skulls in the house is a red flag, right.
14:55
Speaker 1: Investigators find human remains that same day. Authorities eventu recover
15:00
Speaker 1: Are you ready for this? Authorities eventually recover more than
15:04
Speaker 1: ten thousand bones and bone fragments, many that have been
15:08
Speaker 1: burned and crushed.
15:09
Speaker 2: Okay, so bone fragments, I means one bone could turn
15:12
Speaker 2: into two. So how many actual bodies does the ten
15:16
Speaker 2: thousand bones represent in fragments?
15:18
Speaker 1: I don't think they know. They just estimate, and I
15:22
Speaker 1: don't know.
15:22
Speaker 2: Were they all in one pile.
15:24
Speaker 1: No, they're spread. Well, there was a creek bed where
15:27
Speaker 1: they found a ton of human bones, and I in
15:29
Speaker 1: the in the documentary, you can see they have I
15:33
Speaker 1: don't know if it's just video or body cam footage
15:36
Speaker 1: or whatever. This is the nineties, so probably not body
15:38
Speaker 1: cam footage, right, just regular recording camquarder cam quorder. But
15:41
Speaker 1: they're recording the creek bed and you literally they're just
15:44
Speaker 1: recording along a creek.
15:46
Speaker 2: Bed edge, just like a movie scene. It's just like
15:48
Speaker 2: a bunch of bones, like crops.
15:49
Speaker 1: Bones, just leg bones and rib bones and just bones,
15:53
Speaker 1: just bones everywhere.
15:56
Speaker 2: The bones.
15:57
Speaker 1: June twenty fourth and nineteen any skulls. Okay, that's a
16:01
Speaker 1: good question.
16:02
Speaker 2: I only ask good questions.
16:04
Speaker 1: You do ask very good questions. As far as I
16:08
Speaker 1: know and from what I read, I believe that there
16:11
Speaker 1: were no skulls found.
16:12
Speaker 2: Just the one that the kid found.
16:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so that makes me wonder if he's taking
16:17
Speaker 1: these bodies into the woods and he's trying to burn
16:20
Speaker 1: them to get rid of them, but it doesn't really
16:22
Speaker 1: get rid of the bones, and the bones are displaced
16:25
Speaker 1: all over the woods, where are the skulls? Is he
16:28
Speaker 1: removing the heads? And then if he removes the heads,
16:31
Speaker 1: what does he do with those skulls?
16:33
Speaker 2: Where are those?
16:34
Speaker 1: I don't think they were ever recovered. I think the
16:37
Speaker 1: bone fragments, the ten thousand bone fragments, none of those
16:39
Speaker 1: were skulls. Wow. July third, nineteen ninety six, Before he
16:44
Speaker 1: can be arrested, Bombmeister flees to Ontario, Canada. He dies
16:50
Speaker 1: by suicide at a park near Lake Huron, like he.
16:53
Speaker 2: Went up there and then committed suicide, like.
16:55
Speaker 1: He knew the home was being searched. My question is
16:57
Speaker 1: when Mark Goodyear gave his interview and said that he's
17:02
Speaker 1: suspected that this guy had killed multiple.
17:03
Speaker 2: People, Yeah, that's enough to investigate. I wouldn't say it's
17:06
Speaker 2: enough to.
17:07
Speaker 1: Go arrest, but to maybe detain and.
17:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's part of the investigation. So you go to
17:12
Speaker 2: the property and that if it looks suspicious as claimed,
17:17
Speaker 2: even if you don't see all the bones, then possible detainment.
17:20
Speaker 2: But you can't just because someone came to this police station.
17:23
Speaker 2: She said that guy's a much bones. They're just going
17:24
Speaker 2: to go detain them immediately. Well, they have to go
17:27
Speaker 2: look into it further.
17:28
Speaker 1: Okay. So while the police were searching Fox Hollow, he
17:31
Speaker 1: was at a different property. See again, they own another
17:34
Speaker 1: like a lake house, so they have another property. He
17:36
Speaker 1: has the son with him, and then the mom, Julie,
17:40
Speaker 1: wants him to return the sun, which then I believe,
17:43
Speaker 1: gives him some.
17:44
Speaker 2: Type of notice notice that something's up, that.
17:47
Speaker 1: Something is up. So he ends up fleeing.
17:49
Speaker 2: He's like, oh crap, I forgot to bury the ten
17:52
Speaker 2: thousand bones. I was supposed to do that yesterday.
17:54
Speaker 1: I didn't clean that up yet. So he ends up
17:57
Speaker 1: dying by suicide shot himself. Though there's people that say
18:00
Speaker 1: they don't believe he shot himself, but we'll just go
18:02
Speaker 1: with he shot himself.
18:03
Speaker 2: Are you one of those people?
18:04
Speaker 1: I don't know this case.
18:05
Speaker 2: You think no one dies, You think everyone's still alive
18:08
Speaker 2: I do. That means if I die, you're going to
18:10
Speaker 2: think that I'm alive somewhere living some life, and you're
18:12
Speaker 2: going to be mad at me.
18:13
Speaker 1: Still. Yes, absolutely, I'm going to be like, I know
18:15
Speaker 1: he's out there living life without me. That means you
18:20
Speaker 1: die that under suspicious circumstances that I had nothing to
18:26
Speaker 1: do with.
18:27
Speaker 2: That would be why I wait, YEA, Clearly, if you
18:29
Speaker 2: kill me at your own hands, then you know I'm
18:31
Speaker 2: dead right and I'm not faking it?
18:32
Speaker 1: Okay. So his suicide note references his marriage and failing businesses,
18:35
Speaker 1: but does not mention the victims or alleged crimes. In
18:39
Speaker 1: the late nineteen nineties. Four victims are identified using dental
18:42
Speaker 1: records and DNA technology available at the time. Now, remember
18:46
Speaker 1: this is the late nineteen nineties when they find all
18:47
Speaker 1: these bones. So can you imagine what's the process? I
18:51
Speaker 1: don't even know. Can you get a DNA profile from
18:53
Speaker 1: a bone in the late nineteen nineties, I don't.
18:56
Speaker 2: Know if you call probably not old bones that are
18:58
Speaker 2: washed up and DNA's kind of destroid. But if it
19:01
Speaker 2: was like fresh or something. But now I know that
19:04
Speaker 2: they're better at it, but I don't know details. I
19:07
Speaker 2: don't know how it works. I don't know if they
19:08
Speaker 2: have to go in the marrow or if they have
19:09
Speaker 2: to pull something out or what.
19:11
Speaker 1: Sheriff James Bradbury says. The bombmeister is the only suspect
19:15
Speaker 1: and the case is largely largely treated as closed.
19:18
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, what kind of budget would you have to
19:20
Speaker 2: have ten thousand fragments and bones. That's an insane amount
19:25
Speaker 2: of work. I'm not trying to say, just disregard the
19:29
Speaker 2: crime and whatever, but he's dead ten thousand. But what
19:34
Speaker 2: are they going to do?
19:36
Speaker 1: What are they going to do?
19:37
Speaker 2: Well, don't want to look at it. When when they
19:39
Speaker 2: had noticed that people were missing, they didn't even do
19:41
Speaker 2: anything right.
19:42
Speaker 1: So that's why this case is so frustrating for me,
19:44
Speaker 1: because in what situation do you find ten thousand bones
19:47
Speaker 1: on someone's property in this situation, in this situation. But
19:50
Speaker 1: then it's like and then he shoots himself, I mean
19:54
Speaker 1: some more bones, shoots himself, and then it's like case closed.
19:58
Speaker 2: I know that's it.
19:59
Speaker 1: We're not gonna we're done. They just box it all up,
20:02
Speaker 1: put the evidence in a box, and they put it
20:04
Speaker 1: in a storeroom and then they go on with life
20:06
Speaker 1: and that's it. And that's so creepy to me that
20:09
Speaker 1: you've got someone out there who's a serial killer who
20:12
Speaker 1: is targeting.
20:13
Speaker 2: No, it could solve a lot of questions that are
20:15
Speaker 2: out there as to where so and so is or
20:17
Speaker 2: whatever happened, or you know, there's always things they can learn.
20:20
Speaker 2: Maybe that I take more seriously that you know the
20:23
Speaker 2: security of the area. I don't know.
20:24
Speaker 1: So then the ten thousand bone fragments that are uncovered
20:28
Speaker 1: in the late nineteen nineties at the Fox Hollow property
20:31
Speaker 1: stay unidentified and are housed at a nearby university. And
20:35
Speaker 1: then that's it. Case closed. He killed himself. Also, do
20:40
Speaker 1: you know what a snuff film is?
20:42
Speaker 2: Yeah?
20:42
Speaker 1: I didn't. I have to look it up.
20:44
Speaker 2: And you have sex. Then he killed a person, yeah,
20:45
Speaker 2: and it's on film, like yeah, but maybe fake ones,
20:48
Speaker 2: I mean honest.
20:48
Speaker 1: See, Well, allegedly when he disappeared, he had a box
20:55
Speaker 1: of snuff films.
20:57
Speaker 2: Oh so he did that with these his victims.
20:59
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's sure or not, because they've
21:01
Speaker 1: never been able to recover any videos.
21:04
Speaker 2: They've just no, they found a box of but they
21:07
Speaker 2: couldn't play him. No.
21:08
Speaker 1: I didn't say they found them. I said allegedly when
21:11
Speaker 1: he disappeared, he had taken a box of.
21:14
Speaker 2: Oh, he had taken the box, but they.
21:16
Speaker 1: Never recovered it because when they interviewed the wife, she
21:20
Speaker 1: had talked about how he had like VHS tapes somewhere,
21:23
Speaker 1: but then those were all gone. And then based upon
21:26
Speaker 1: things that Mark Goodyear says over the years, because he
21:29
Speaker 1: keeps popping up. He likes to give interviews and talk
21:31
Speaker 1: about all the things that he knows, but he's so strange,
21:34
Speaker 1: you don't know what to believe and what not to believe.
21:37
Speaker 1: And then so allegedly people believe that maybe he was
21:41
Speaker 1: making some kind of snuff films and.
21:44
Speaker 2: That he well wouldn't be far fettered the fact that
21:46
Speaker 2: he's a psycho. So he recorded his killings in whatever manner.
21:50
Speaker 1: I don't know, but none of it has ever been
21:52
Speaker 1: recovered unless it was recovered and it was hidden, I
21:55
Speaker 1: don't know.
21:55
Speaker 2: They're probably some thrift store somewhere for sale. Yeah, here's
22:00
Speaker 2: a box of VHS cassettes from the nineties, fifty cents apiece.
22:04
Speaker 2: People are like, oh, okay, let's see.
22:06
Speaker 1: Indianapolis police don't make an effort to identify the remaining
22:09
Speaker 1: victims for over twenty years.
22:12
Speaker 2: Oh so we're wait, now in twenty years they did,
22:15
Speaker 2: or twenty years have gone they still have not.
22:17
Speaker 1: No, We're going to get to it. It gets updated.
22:18
Speaker 1: But I'm just saying we're in the nineties. They search
22:21
Speaker 1: his property, they find all the bones, he disappears, he
22:24
Speaker 1: shoots himself, and then they're like, case closed. We don't
22:28
Speaker 1: know who all these people are, who the bones belong to?
22:31
Speaker 1: Did he have an accomplice? Because the question is how
22:34
Speaker 1: does one man get these men back to his property
22:39
Speaker 1: and then into the basement and does whatever he does
22:42
Speaker 1: and then get them out into a field. I mean,
22:45
Speaker 1: bodies are heavy. Is someone working with him?
22:48
Speaker 2: Does he get them where they move on their own?
22:51
Speaker 1: Will?
22:52
Speaker 2: So said, hey, have you heard of the Fox Hollow Farms?
22:55
Speaker 2: Because I'm the owner. I want to come check it out.
22:57
Speaker 2: I got to pull in the basement. It's a party
22:59
Speaker 2: going on, so much people down there.
23:04
Speaker 1: All right. Then in twenty twenty two, newly elected Hamilton
23:07
Speaker 1: County Coroner Jeff Jellison reopens the effort to identify the
23:12
Speaker 1: remains after hearing from Eric Pranger, whose cousin Alan Livingson
23:17
Speaker 1: had been missing for nearly thirty years. Jellison learns that
23:21
Speaker 1: roughly ten thousand bones and fragments remain unidentified. He announces
23:25
Speaker 1: a renewed identification effort and asks families with missing loved
23:28
Speaker 1: ones from that era to come forward. I like Jeff Jellison.
23:32
Speaker 1: He is he works for the coroner's office. He's a
23:35
Speaker 1: county coroner. He's not an investigator, so he's not working
23:39
Speaker 1: with the police department, so it's not really his job
23:42
Speaker 1: to investigate the crime. However, he reopens the case in
23:46
Speaker 1: order to identify the bones so that he can bring
23:50
Speaker 1: peace to a lot of these families.
23:51
Speaker 2: Sounds reasonable.
23:53
Speaker 1: He also went to crime con and a lot of
23:55
Speaker 1: people talk to him. He spoke about this case, so
23:58
Speaker 1: that was I thought that was interesting. He just seems
24:00
Speaker 1: like a really good guy, like he wanted to do
24:02
Speaker 1: the right thing. And also, we have so many advances
24:04
Speaker 1: in technology now as far as DNA, I do think.
24:09
Speaker 1: I don't know, you don't need the bone marrow anymore.
24:11
Speaker 1: I believe you can just test the bones.
24:13
Speaker 2: I don't know, but it's definitely improved. Its improved.
24:17
Speaker 1: They also now, which we've talked about on many of
24:19
Speaker 1: the podcasts before, is the familial genealogy where you can
24:23
Speaker 1: make a DNA profile and use the you Know the
24:26
Speaker 1: Family genealogy databases in order to make connections and figure
24:30
Speaker 1: out who people are. In twenty twenty three, with DNA
24:34
Speaker 1: from family members, Alan Lee Livingston is finally identified as
24:37
Speaker 1: one of the Fox Hollow victims. His identification gives his
24:41
Speaker 1: family long awaited closure after nearly three decades of not
24:44
Speaker 1: knowing where he was and what had happened to him. Then,
24:47
Speaker 1: in January of twenty twenty four, Manuel Martinez Risindez is
24:51
Speaker 1: identified through DNA from his daughter, and then in May
24:54
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty four, Jeffrey Allen Jones is also identified.
24:58
Speaker 1: In June of twenty twenty five, four officials say that
25:01
Speaker 1: nine victims have been publicly identified, while more identifications are
25:05
Speaker 1: still in progress. All right, then we get to August
25:14
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty four and the town of Westfield, where
25:17
Speaker 1: Fox Hollow Farms is holds its first public dedication ceremony
25:21
Speaker 1: honoring the Fox Hollow victims. The victims' names are read
25:25
Speaker 1: aloud and two men are laid to rest. Investigators claim
25:32
Speaker 1: this is now we get to twenty twenty five that
25:34
Speaker 1: at least twenty five victims may have been buried at
25:36
Speaker 1: Fox Hollow Farm. So I guess that's their estimate as
25:39
Speaker 1: far as the amount of bones, that it might be
25:41
Speaker 1: around five people.
25:42
Speaker 2: It was like two inner bones in a body or something, right,
25:45
Speaker 2: I don't remember the exact im It's like tun and something.
25:47
Speaker 2: So let's say, and most of them are in the feet.
25:49
Speaker 2: So let's say, so if you just did two hundred
25:53
Speaker 2: times twenty five, five thousand poems, they're all broken in half,
25:56
Speaker 2: and that's ten thousand. There. I solved your crime.
25:58
Speaker 1: You solved the crime.
25:59
Speaker 2: No. I was trying to put it in some perfected
26:02
Speaker 2: perspective because ten thousand bones doesn't sound like twenty five people, right, Yeah,
26:06
Speaker 2: but so maybe it was thirty forty people. Well, and
26:08
Speaker 2: either way that's crazy. They're dead people like twenty five
26:11
Speaker 2: even if it was only twenty five. Yeah, he killed
26:13
Speaker 2: twenty five people. That's what I'm span of time. And
26:16
Speaker 2: how could he afford this farm?
26:18
Speaker 1: Yes? How does he afford the farm?
26:21
Speaker 2: And the laity a documentary? And how criminals afford their lifestyle?
26:24
Speaker 1: That's what I want to know. That's what intrigues me
26:26
Speaker 1: the most.
26:28
Speaker 2: I know, we're sitting here trying to pay bills and
26:30
Speaker 2: this guy's like killing people left and right and buying farms. Yeah,
26:35
Speaker 2: also doesn't bought the farm, being dead.
26:39
Speaker 1: Bought the farm.
26:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, like he bought the farm. That means he's dead.
26:43
Speaker 1: You know what's interesting. Here's another fun fact. So the
26:45
Speaker 1: man that owns fox Hollow Farm, now his last name
26:48
Speaker 1: is Graves.
26:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, oh great, that's a fun fact, right, it
26:53
Speaker 2: would be funny if he owned a cemetery.
26:56
Speaker 1: He doesn't know, well, he owns fox Hallow Farm, which
26:58
Speaker 1: is basically a cemetery at this point, and his last
27:01
Speaker 1: name is Graves because they do.
27:02
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you'd have to, like really, you have to
27:05
Speaker 2: get like a huge grating machine or something and some
27:09
Speaker 2: huge like earth moving machines to like clear out that.
27:14
Speaker 2: I would you want to like what did you like
27:15
Speaker 2: grow like oranges or something? And you're like, oh, well
27:19
Speaker 2: these are from the bones of like dead people.
27:21
Speaker 1: Well it's Indiana, so nobody's growing oranges.
27:23
Speaker 2: What are they grown? Indiana?
27:25
Speaker 1: Corn?
27:25
Speaker 2: Okay, so corn corn? Further pro point, everyone needs corn
27:31
Speaker 2: corn oil.
27:32
Speaker 1: So you don't want to you don't want to live
27:33
Speaker 1: at Fox Hollow Farm. You wouldn't want to buy it.
27:36
Speaker 1: I think that to be the kind of person that
27:38
Speaker 1: bought buys Fox Hollow Farm knowing what devious, salacious, crazy
27:45
Speaker 1: things could have possibly happened in the pool and that
27:49
Speaker 1: there's you know, a minimum of ten thousand bone fragments
27:53
Speaker 1: found just in a pasture, you know, right next to
27:56
Speaker 1: the farm and in the creek bed, and think about
27:58
Speaker 1: there's probably more bone instigate graves.
28:01
Speaker 2: Why are you okay with buying a property there's a
28:03
Speaker 2: bunch of bones? What's your history?
28:05
Speaker 1: And he allows people to come on the property. He
28:07
Speaker 1: allowed like a paranormal team to come and.
28:09
Speaker 2: He allowed, well allow Emily Simpson andcum.
28:11
Speaker 1: Maybe I might reach out to him. I might see
28:14
Speaker 1: if we could take a little field trip to Fox
28:16
Speaker 1: Hollow Farms. I just want to see the creepy that.
28:19
Speaker 2: Go hunting for bones, you know, like you can go
28:21
Speaker 2: on the strawberry field and the like. Where are we
28:22
Speaker 2: collecting and keep? But if it's like that as properties,
28:25
Speaker 2: like what are our bones? You find?
28:25
Speaker 1: You can keep? Yeah? You could do that there? Yeah,
28:28
Speaker 1: Okay again, can we just talk about how twenty five,
28:31
Speaker 1: like a minimum of twenty five men disappeared from a small.
28:36
Speaker 2: Area over what period of time.
28:38
Speaker 1: In the early nineties in Indianapolis, and there are There
28:42
Speaker 1: isn't an eyewitness that's like I saw that guy.
28:46
Speaker 2: No one came forward.
28:48
Speaker 1: How is that possible? Though? I just don't understand how
28:50
Speaker 1: men just keep disappearing and there isn't like there isn't
28:53
Speaker 1: a big sign at these gay bars with her Bombmeister's
28:57
Speaker 1: photo on it that says, don't go home with this guy.
29:00
Speaker 1: Like no one's noticing.
29:02
Speaker 2: That he doesn't matter. There's a guy named Chester the Molster.
29:04
Speaker 2: They still gave him someone to take home and kill. Yeah,
29:07
Speaker 2: that is it doesn't matter how much notice you have
29:09
Speaker 2: the smart case.
29:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, when they handed her off.
29:13
Speaker 2: What's his name, Chester the Monster?
29:15
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, his real name was Reuben Flores. Yeah. Mark Goodyear,
29:20
Speaker 1: we're back to Mark Goodyear. Alleges that herb Bammeister are
29:22
Speaker 1: killed around fifty to sixty people. Okay, Mark Goodyear is
29:28
Speaker 1: such a strange character to me. I need you to
29:32
Speaker 1: watch just some of the interviews with him. You know,
29:34
Speaker 1: they go back and make a new episode after the
29:38
Speaker 1: original I told you, after the original episodes come out
29:40
Speaker 1: on this documentary about Fox Hollow Farms, then it creates
29:44
Speaker 1: a new buzz.
29:44
Speaker 2: About it all because now there's a lot of people
29:46
Speaker 2: that have noticed or are more educated on the crime
29:50
Speaker 2: that then they have leads.
29:53
Speaker 1: That they were generated. Five hundred new leads from the episodes.
29:57
Speaker 2: That came people that you were wondering didn't speak up.
30:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I don't know what kind of leads they got,
30:02
Speaker 1: because I still feel like no questions have really been answered.
30:04
Speaker 1: Herbs still dead and Mark Goodyear still makes no sense.
30:07
Speaker 1: We don't know if he was actively involved or not.
30:10
Speaker 1: He's one of those very eccentric characters that likes to
30:13
Speaker 1: talk a lot, but you can't really understand or decipher whether, oh,
30:17
Speaker 1: but he has a lot of words credible or not. Yes,
30:20
Speaker 1: But then he'll also shut down on camera and refuse.
30:22
Speaker 2: They investigate him. They looked into him, not enough they should.
30:26
Speaker 1: He gives me creepy vibes, and he knows way too
30:28
Speaker 1: much information about Bombmeister, his way around Fox Hollow Farms.
30:33
Speaker 1: He even makes He'll make a.
30:34
Speaker 2: Comment go see if he has a VHS collection, right, Yeah.
30:38
Speaker 1: He makes comments like, oh, this is where the burn
30:40
Speaker 1: pile was. I would just see tons of bodies laying
30:43
Speaker 1: there being burned, and it's like, and no one wants
30:45
Speaker 1: to question this guy. He just does interviews. He does
30:48
Speaker 1: interviews for documentaries. He did an interview with this you know,
30:51
Speaker 1: I told you a paranormal team went out to that
30:54
Speaker 1: house to do like an episode, and they met with
30:58
Speaker 1: him and he originally he wouldn't let them put him
31:00
Speaker 1: on camera, so they just kept filming next like his
31:03
Speaker 1: feet and his legs, and then eventually he ends up
31:05
Speaker 1: being on camera. Then, after these original episodes on Hulu
31:09
Speaker 1: get released, they said that they generated like five hundred
31:12
Speaker 1: new leads on this case. So they do an updated
31:14
Speaker 1: episode which just was released like a couple of weeks ago,
31:17
Speaker 1: and I believe he declined. He said he wanted to
31:20
Speaker 1: do the interview, and they're all sitting around waiting for
31:22
Speaker 1: him to show up, and then he doesn't show up. Really,
31:25
Speaker 1: and so I just I just I wonder what other
31:28
Speaker 1: people's take is on Mark Goodyear, because to me, I
31:30
Speaker 1: feel like he was the one that initially got the
31:34
Speaker 1: search warrant, because remember he's the one that went in
31:36
Speaker 1: and gave them that whole story about how he was
31:38
Speaker 1: the one victim that got away. That's like what he
31:40
Speaker 1: refers to himself as, this is how I know all
31:43
Speaker 1: this because he was trying to take me back to
31:44
Speaker 1: his house and you know.
31:46
Speaker 2: He's the one guy that got need.
31:48
Speaker 1: To put a belt around my neck or whatever, and
31:51
Speaker 1: I refuse, and I'm the one that got away. But
31:53
Speaker 1: then he ends up changing his story and he claims
31:55
Speaker 1: that he knew her and they'd been in a relationship.
31:57
Speaker 2: He was there more than just a victim who got away,
32:01
Speaker 2: And clearly he knows more for.
32:04
Speaker 1: A reason, right, But I'm saying his initial story in
32:07
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four or five, whatever it was, was that
32:10
Speaker 1: he was the one victim that got away. Then it
32:13
Speaker 1: ends up being that as he talks more and more,
32:15
Speaker 1: his stories changed, they become more convoluted. He knows more information,
32:20
Speaker 1: He knew her for a long time. He claims that
32:22
Speaker 1: he would be the one person in the gay bar
32:24
Speaker 1: saying don't go home with that guy. What are you
32:27
Speaker 1: talking about? He said, I would shout it from the rooftops,
32:30
Speaker 1: don't go home with him?
32:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, why don't you report it to the police, And
32:33
Speaker 2: says shouting it from the rooftopay.
32:34
Speaker 1: It's like that makes no sense. So you're telling me
32:36
Speaker 1: that you're out there warning people not to go home
32:39
Speaker 1: with this guy.
32:39
Speaker 2: You're suspicious.
32:40
Speaker 1: He's very suspicious. Then he doesn't do this final interview.
32:44
Speaker 2: Let's do an interview with Goodyear. Yeah, ye put him
32:46
Speaker 2: up here.
32:47
Speaker 1: I wouldn't do an interview with Goodyear although he's he's creepy.
32:50
Speaker 2: Probably be a no show.
32:51
Speaker 1: Heepy, creepy man, all right. July eighth and twenty twenty six.
32:54
Speaker 1: This is when we get to the updated episode that
32:57
Speaker 1: gets released. It's called the Fox Hollow Murders Playground of
33:00
Speaker 1: a Serial Killer, and it airs a new episode that
33:03
Speaker 1: Zero's in on Thomas Ackerman being bomb Meister's accomplice. So
33:07
Speaker 1: now they come out with a possible accomplice that helped Bommeister.
33:13
Speaker 1: He was connected to three of the men that were
33:15
Speaker 1: found on bomb Meister's property. There is also video evidence
33:19
Speaker 1: of the lead detective on the bomb Meister case saying
33:21
Speaker 1: he did not care to question any suspects other than
33:24
Speaker 1: her bomb Meister. I think that's a big problem with
33:26
Speaker 1: this case. Was not only when herb shot himself, if
33:30
Speaker 1: he did, or I don't know, maybe somebody got Tom.
33:32
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know what I believe in
33:34
Speaker 1: this case anymore, or in this world it wasn't or
33:37
Speaker 1: in this world it wasn't investigated thoroughly and now you
33:40
Speaker 1: have this other man that's connected to these guys. They
33:43
Speaker 1: also found like a car that was registered to Thomas
33:46
Speaker 1: Ackerman and they look in the trunk and he's got,
33:49
Speaker 1: you know, a shovel and he's got a murder kit.
33:52
Speaker 2: What's going on in this town?
33:54
Speaker 1: I don't know what this is. It's Indianapolis.
33:58
Speaker 2: Oh, it's like the city.
34:00
Speaker 1: Well, the Fox Hollow Farm is in like a suburb
34:02
Speaker 1: outside of downtown Indianapolis. But the men are all disappearing
34:06
Speaker 1: from her.
34:06
Speaker 2: We looked at the Fox Hollow Farm online or anything.
34:08
Speaker 2: Is it pretty?
34:09
Speaker 1: Yeah? I tried to zillow it. I tried to find
34:11
Speaker 1: the address because I wanted to know what it was worth,
34:13
Speaker 1: so I need to and I couldn't find the exact address,
34:16
Speaker 1: so it was hard for me to be able to
34:17
Speaker 1: find it on.
34:18
Speaker 2: My question was did you see what it looked like? Yeah?
34:20
Speaker 1: I know what it looks well, it's in the documentary.
34:21
Speaker 2: Okay, So the answer is yes, okay, So what about
34:25
Speaker 2: it look pretty? It's beautiful.
34:27
Speaker 1: It's a big, huge Tudor style home with rolling green
34:31
Speaker 1: pastures and barns and wooded areas and fences. It's beautiful.
34:37
Speaker 1: It has a big sign out front, says Fox Hollow Farm.
34:40
Speaker 1: It's very idyllic looking, it's very pretty, but there's a
34:43
Speaker 1: lot of bones there. I don't want anything to do
34:45
Speaker 1: with it. I don't want to live there. It has
34:47
Speaker 1: the creepy pool with the mannequins in the basement, and
34:50
Speaker 1: allegedly a lot of VHS tapes of snuff films that
34:52
Speaker 1: were never found or recovered. But film there, but film there?
34:55
Speaker 2: How do you just you know, you have to check
34:57
Speaker 2: all those boxes when you sell pis properly, says anyone
34:59
Speaker 2: die here, honey, snuff films made? Yeah?
35:04
Speaker 1: Is that part? Is snuff film's part of the disclosure?
35:06
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think pipe leaks?
35:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Well you know the guy that owns it
35:10
Speaker 1: now Graves, he doesn't seem to mind. He lets everybody
35:13
Speaker 1: on the property to film and hear normal stuff and
35:16
Speaker 1: make documentaries. He's interviewed. He got a lot of heat
35:20
Speaker 1: for buying the poverty No, because they interview him in
35:23
Speaker 1: these documentaries, and in the first couple episodes, he he
35:27
Speaker 1: seems to give Mark Goodyear a pass, like when they
35:29
Speaker 1: interview him about Mark Goodyear, he doesn't he doesn't fess
35:34
Speaker 1: up to things that Mark has told him. And he
35:35
Speaker 1: kind of waves it off and makes it like it's
35:38
Speaker 1: not a.
35:38
Speaker 2: Big guys look weird.
35:40
Speaker 1: No, he looks like a normal guy to me.
35:42
Speaker 2: Did you question how he bought the property?
35:44
Speaker 1: No, because he seems to me he probably has money. Okay, Yeah,
35:47
Speaker 1: and he likes dead people and bones.
35:49
Speaker 2: Well you don't know that.
35:50
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know why else would you
35:52
Speaker 1: want to live there?
35:53
Speaker 2: Because he's got a good discount. I don't know all
35:55
Speaker 2: the bones are gone.
35:57
Speaker 1: No, there's still bones out there. You think they recovered
35:59
Speaker 1: all of them? Well, I doubt that.
36:02
Speaker 2: You know what that property is good for? What an alibi? Well,
36:06
Speaker 2: if you kill someone, there's bones, I like, I don't
36:08
Speaker 2: know they were just I bought this property. Don't you
36:10
Speaker 2: know the history of this property? Of course there's bones
36:11
Speaker 2: of this property.
36:12
Speaker 1: Oh you mean, and another serial killer should buy the
36:16
Speaker 1: property and then dump people in the pasture or in
36:20
Speaker 1: the firm piles, and.
36:21
Speaker 2: Then people say, hey, I was over at the Fox
36:23
Speaker 2: Hollow place and there's some bones there. But yeah, I
36:25
Speaker 2: know we know that already.
36:26
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you're right, that is a good cover up.
36:28
Speaker 2: Yeah.
36:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, you just told people if they want to murder someone,
36:31
Speaker 1: they should dump the body at Fox follow Farm exactly.
36:35
Speaker 1: All right, So again we were talking about the video
36:38
Speaker 1: evidence of the lead detective saying that Bombmeister was the
36:40
Speaker 1: only one on his list, and then after bomb Meister
36:42
Speaker 1: committed suicide, they weren't interested in really investigating any further. Also,
36:47
Speaker 1: fun fact, the guy Graves that owns the property claims
36:51
Speaker 1: and this I believe it was in the most recent episode,
36:54
Speaker 1: the updated episode, that when he bought the home, he
36:59
Speaker 1: also like a lot of the things that were being
37:02
Speaker 1: investigated with the house, and that someone from the police department.
37:05
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was an investigator or who
37:08
Speaker 1: asked him if he wanted to buy the evidence for
37:10
Speaker 1: ten thousand dollars, like the official evidence that was collected
37:15
Speaker 1: about the case. He was asked if they wanted to
37:17
Speaker 1: buy it. That's illegal. You can't do that.
37:19
Speaker 2: You can't sell evidence.
37:20
Speaker 1: No, you can't sell evidence.
37:22
Speaker 2: The evidence the cops and they just took what they
37:24
Speaker 2: took and then that was the end of it.
37:25
Speaker 1: Yes, but you're supposed to preserve evidence.
37:27
Speaker 2: These cops aren't even investigating it.
37:29
Speaker 1: I'm saying, how crappy that they're reaching out to the
37:32
Speaker 1: guy that bought the house and being like, Hey, do
37:34
Speaker 1: you want all the official evidence that was collected by
37:37
Speaker 1: the investigators in this case? Would you like to buy
37:40
Speaker 1: the box of evidence for ten thousand dollars? And he
37:43
Speaker 1: turned it down. But I don't know what happened to
37:45
Speaker 1: the box of evidence. They probably tried to sell it
37:47
Speaker 1: on eBay or something. Thomas Ackerman has not been charged
37:51
Speaker 1: in relation to the case. I believe he's dead now.
37:54
Speaker 1: And Mark Goodyear has not been charged in relation to
37:56
Speaker 1: the case. Indianapolis police are still actively instigating over nine
38:01
Speaker 1: thousand bone fragments. Can you imagine the costs of testing
38:05
Speaker 1: all of those bone fragments?
38:07
Speaker 2: I believe I covered that earlier.
38:08
Speaker 1: And okay, I mean, what do you think where does
38:10
Speaker 1: that money come from? Because you're gonna have to get
38:12
Speaker 1: like donations or private funding, the.
38:14
Speaker 2: People of Indianapolis taxpayers.
38:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder what under what?
38:19
Speaker 2: It's kind of a duty you gotta you know, it's
38:22
Speaker 2: what the police are. Therefore the law enforcement's therefore times
38:24
Speaker 2: like this, it's like a fire. And if a fire
38:27
Speaker 2: just happens, I mean, if if a fire happens on purpose, yeah,
38:31
Speaker 2: they can go out to the person. Right, you cause damage,
38:33
Speaker 2: You caused a lot of alarm of first responders. But
38:35
Speaker 2: if a fire just happens, I mean, that's what they
38:37
Speaker 2: got to do. Or if the if someone starts fired
38:39
Speaker 2: then kills themselves and now kills you know, I mean,
38:41
Speaker 2: what are you going to do? Police still have to
38:43
Speaker 2: fire departments still has to put out the.
38:45
Speaker 1: Fire, right, I understand, But I'm just saying, they close
38:48
Speaker 1: the case, and they weren't interested.
38:49
Speaker 2: That's probably why they closed it.
38:50
Speaker 1: Getting something years and then now this new coroner comes forward, right,
38:54
Speaker 1: you know, and he's like, hey, that's not the right
38:55
Speaker 1: thing to do. He had a moral he felt it
38:58
Speaker 1: wasn't it a duty. It wasn't an obligat. No one
39:00
Speaker 1: was saying to him, oh you're the new county corner,
39:02
Speaker 1: you need to test all these bones. He took it
39:04
Speaker 1: as his own moral obligation that that's what he should do.
39:08
Speaker 2: I don't disagree with that.
39:08
Speaker 1: So I'm saying, I wonder where the funding comes from,
39:10
Speaker 1: because it's not it wasn't.
39:13
Speaker 2: Well it's in Apple, it's a big city. I'm sure
39:14
Speaker 2: they have funding for it. Well, clearly he's gonna that's
39:18
Speaker 2: that's his job.
39:18
Speaker 1: He's figured it out right, all right, So anyway, this
39:20
Speaker 1: is Fox Hollow Farms. I still have so many questions.
39:24
Speaker 1: Did her make snuff films in the creepy pool? And
39:27
Speaker 1: what happened to the VHSA? And Mark Goodyear is so
39:32
Speaker 1: bizarre and creepy to me. What did you guys think
39:34
Speaker 1: of him? And do you think he's involved? He's creepy,
39:36
Speaker 1: and he knows too much information, and he knows too
39:39
Speaker 1: much about what's going on.
39:40
Speaker 2: He's too comfortable around a crime scene of ten thousand bones,
39:43
Speaker 2: he is, And I.
39:43
Speaker 1: Believe he's involved in it somehow. And I think he
39:46
Speaker 1: initially went to the police in nineteen ninety four because
39:48
Speaker 1: I think he's one of those people that gets some
39:51
Speaker 1: kind of high from being knowledgeable or being able to well.
39:56
Speaker 2: He's probably liked that during the crimes too. He's probably
39:58
Speaker 2: kind of tied to it. Maybe you get to observe
40:01
Speaker 2: it or ask questions or kind of like vicariously kind
40:04
Speaker 2: of you know, witness it all and be a part
40:07
Speaker 2: of it that way.
40:09
Speaker 1: That's a good take on it as well. So what
40:10
Speaker 1: do you guys think about Mark Goodyear? Lastly, do you
40:13
Speaker 1: think her Balllmeister acted alone? Was he an a lone
40:16
Speaker 1: serial killer that justsmanaged to I don't know. I don't know.
40:21
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know if Goodyear's just an eccentric,
40:23
Speaker 1: weird character.
40:24
Speaker 2: That like whenmes died, did any more bodies come up?
40:27
Speaker 2: Or when he was found when it was found out,
40:29
Speaker 2: did any more bodies come up? Yeah? Exactly, so it
40:31
Speaker 2: was Bollmeister.
40:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, But did he act alone? That's the question.
40:35
Speaker 2: Well, if he was, if ACMA was involved, good Year
40:38
Speaker 2: was involved, it still stopped. So he was probably the
40:41
Speaker 2: ringleader or right.
40:43
Speaker 1: And then how did the wife not notice any of
40:45
Speaker 1: this going on?
40:46
Speaker 2: She didn't notice maybe.
40:49
Speaker 1: And you're saying she just.
40:50
Speaker 2: Look the other way. Well, and when he said the
40:52
Speaker 2: skull was his science project or whatever it was, or
40:55
Speaker 2: his grandfa's science project, like.
40:57
Speaker 1: A skeleton, like a yeah, well whatever was? Yeah, she
41:01
Speaker 1: bought it? All right? Well that is Fox Hollow Farms.
41:04
Speaker 1: And let me know your thoughts on it. You can
41:06
Speaker 1: DM me on my Instagram. I love the feedball.
41:08
Speaker 2: We'd have to know if any other people found their
41:11
Speaker 2: spouses with bones and then there was a valid excuse
41:13
Speaker 2: for it.
41:14
Speaker 1: Oh you want to know that, that's your question. Anyone
41:16
Speaker 1: out there that's married.
41:17
Speaker 2: That found human bone, found human both a valid explanation, then.
41:21
Speaker 1: Your spouse had a valid explanation as to why they
41:25
Speaker 1: had human bone. Yes, okay, all right, well I'll let
41:28
Speaker 1: you know what they tell me. Okay, all right. Thank
41:29
Speaker 1: you guys for listening to legally Brunette. You can find
41:32
Speaker 1: Fox Hollow Farm on Hulu. Let me know your thoughts
41:35
Speaker 1: on it. As always, please follow us on our own
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Speaker 1: feed legally Brunettes and if you have any recommendations of
41:40
Speaker 1: cases you would like us to discuss, please send me
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Speaker 1: a message. I love to hear your recommendations and tell
41:46
Speaker 1: friends and family thanks for listening.
41:48
Speaker 2: Thank you,